Forum Mafia Game #1

[EyeSeeCold]

Okay I've caught up.

I am still focusing on what happened in Round 1 between the 6/7 Neb voters and Cheesy's lynch. It seems Neb is pushing for my lynch possibly because he's been found out and now supports RB+Hadoblado. That brings him back into the sus light.

Don't let the mafia distract you guys with a Puffy or ruminator vote we should be focusing on Hado right now to get the 6/4 lynch.

My suspicions on Day One were something like:
Hado
Ruminator
ESC
Cheese

Reading your posts from today though.. Idk why exactly, but [Hado] just seem more town. Maybe because I agree with your points against ESC.
You're still suspicious, but everyone is. I'm moving you from red to orange on my list though.

So:
ESC
Puffy (reddish- orange)
Hado
RB (pretty sure he's town but idk)

So. I say we lynch EyeSeeCold.
If he turns out to be a townie, it sucks that we lost another innocent, but we risk killing a townie every time we lynch. And if we're taking that risk, I'd rather put ESC at stake than a player as valuable as Hado.

Puffy is another person I'd consider lynching, but I'm more convinced that ESC might be scum.

I'm either going to vote for ESC or Puffy, most likely ESC.
I think we should all do this.

ESC is my top pick for a lynch.

What makes you say ESC has such a strong town read? He seems scummy af.

yeah. I have no clue how you could could get a "strong town reading" from ESC.

I don't agree with that part but I understand his reasoning. I'm sticking with what I said before in my long post. I think it would be best to lynch ESC.

Neb you been silent this whole time and finally when I bring up the 6/7 controversy you immediately suspect me with no justification whatsoever.

You are trying hard to push a lynch for me out of the blue and all you do otherwise is back Hado and RedB who others have been suspecting. Tell me how this is not suspicious and that you're not scum?

 

[redbaron]

@Puffy: have you ever seen ESC be so consistently sloppy with his work? New player or not, sloppy isn't what ESC is. Also, I addressed very thoroughly the issue of people being new and unwittingly anti-town vs. being mafia in this post here.

The Town can't afford to let mafia slip by way of pity for newer players. It's up to them to get up to speed and start doing Town things. The problem, as stated, is that there's currently more than 3 people doing this behaviour.

In fact it's half of them as I read it. Either that's 5 really bad Town players - in which case we're totally fucked anyway, or the narrative is being driven by at least 1 mafia, I'd say most likely 2 and if they're really, really brave: 3. At some point a choice needs to be made. Our only chance of a win is to break the narrative being pushed by lynching the people doing it.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Puffy I swear to dog you better be town after this game is over.

 

[Happy]

Lynch Hado like a loyal Townsperson and I will trust you.

No. Hado is currently toward the bottom of my suspect list. It would be unwise of me to tell you exactly why. I believe he's town playing at a high level and I would rather not spoil his strategy, which I hope I have a good read on.

 

[Puffy]

After that post, I don't think Hado + Nebulous can both be mafia. One or the other, not both.



I don't really buy it. Need to hear why Puffy thinks ESC would be Town at this point.

Also, he's playing exactly the path of least threat. The Town is right now aggressively attacking people based on perceived voting patterns. Puffy's response? To opt out of a vote because, "I disagree with both."

And yet, he's not really helping establish who he DOES suspect and building a case for them.

If you think ESC is prime mafia, and Puffy thinks he's prime Town - I don't really see how you can then say that Puffy is emanating townie, can you elaborate at all?

I don't understand again, and am guessing you've just misinterpreted.

I'm not going to give excuses for why I've been especially busy lately as I'm sure we all are. But realistically I have a certain amount of time in a day I can contribute here. If I come back for a few hours and find loads of accusations made against me, what time do I have?

Despite that instead of going all defensive and shit flinging like everyone else creating greater and greater division, I use the time to assess the situation of the town and write probably among the most pro-town posts on this day so far, proposing a direction that could actually lead to a consensus vote that can rally town together, puts me most at risk and am critiqued as going 'the path of least threat'?

Again, realistically, I have to go sleep now as I have to get up at 6, work a 10 hour day, come back home hours before lynch-time and read through a load of posts of accusations saying how I've not contributed anything to town. What do I do then, respond to those, make a case on someone else, or simply kill myself to make sure the rabble at least does something?

I may as well just hang the noose around my neck right now...

Vote Puffy

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Damnit puffy. Do not vote for yourself, that is a scummy move in my eyes. It only distracts and divides us. Your vote has to be for Hado.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Artsu, Happy, Puffy, and Zerkalo. We need three of you to vote for Hado. I can see Artsu and Zerk getting on board but Happy seems to be uncertain and Puffy is feeling apathetic?

Happy you seem like the least likely to switch but I need a Hado vote from you or Puffy.

 

[Puffy]

Damnit puffy. Do not vote for yourself, that is a scummy move in my eyes. It only distracts and divides us. Your vote has to be for Hado.

Sorry, you're probably right, I had a moment of frustration. Maybe, I just feel that the only thing this town seems unified on is that I'm suspect, so why not?

I'm unsure I see the value of lynching hado. You'd need to make a strong case to persuade me, and imo if you sincerely believe he is mafia and that's where your vote is going then it's in your best interest to as there's no other way you'll persuade 5 others otherwise. The only main benefit I see right now is that it might possibly vindicate RB if he came up green, which could lead to a more unified town, but I'm unsure that's worth the risk of losing him if he is town.

unvote Puffy

 

[Sinny91]

No. Hado is currently toward the bottom of my suspect list. It would be unwise of me to tell you exactly why. I believe he's town playing at a high level and I would rather not spoil his strategy, which I hope I have a good read on.

hmm. Hado... deep cover townie .. or sloppy and obvious mafia?

I suspect anyone who is defending Hado right now.

Even if he is town, I dont want him in my town, he's a destructive and dividing force.

 

[Sinny91]

Next mafia hit will cost town deeply.

TOWN WOULD BE FOOLISH NOT TO TRY AND ELIMINATE THE OBVIOUS

FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM

HADOBLADDER.

CAPS ON ACCIDENT, NOT RETYPING IT.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Sorry, you're probably right, I had a moment of frustration. Maybe, I just feel that the only thing this town seems unified on is that I'm suspect, so why not?

I'm unsure I see the value of lynching hado. You'd need to make a strong case to persuade me, and imo if you sincerely believe he is mafia and that's where your vote is going then it's in your best interest to as there's no other way you'll persuade 5 others otherwise. The only main benefit I see right now is that it might possibly vindicate RB if he came up green, which could lead to a more unified town, but I'm unsure that's worth the risk of losing him if he is town.

unvote Puffy

Puffy listen to me. I will not argue your innocence, because right now whether you are town is inconsequential, but that doesn't mean I or anyone else has doubts for you.

But think. The only people who have even uttered your name recently are Neb, Hado and RB. Doesn't that seem suspect to you? I have suspected Hado from the beginning. You must vote for Hado Puffy.

 

[redbaron]

Even if he is town, I dont want him in my town, he's a destructive and dividing force.

"Let's lynch other town members because I don't like them!"

Yeah, that's going to win the game

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Next mafia hit will cost town deeply.

TOWN WOULD BE FOOLISH NOT TO TRY AND ELIMINATE THE OBVIOUS

FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM

HADOBLADDER.

CAPS ON ACCIDENT, NOT RETYPING IT.

The game will be solved by the next mafia hit because it will be so devastating. There are not many people to choose from that would make the suspects obvious.

 

[Sinny91]

The game will be solved by the next mafia hit because it will be so devastating. There are not many people to choose from that would make the suspects obvious.

I agree.

I reckin me or you are prime targets. Everybody else appears to be so easily bent.

I hate the fact that Hado is obvious mafia. Really detracts from the mystery of the game.

 

[Sinny91]

Well no, I'm speaking in haste. Ruminator and Zerk have both demonstrated some resiliance at least.

 

[Nebulous]

hmm. Hado... deep cover townie .. or sloppy and obvious mafia?

I suspect anyone who is defending Hado right now.

Even if he is town, I don't want him in my town, he's a destructive and dividing force.

Hado is also pretty high on my suspect list, but say we lynch him and he turns out to be town.
That would be awful.
And then say the night kill were RB ? (assuming he's town).
Lynching Hado means risking our two strongest townies. I don't want to take that risk right now. Not until it's a necessary move, which I hope it won't become.

So I don't want to lynch Hado although I've suspected him since the start.
But we still need a lynch. Who do you propose we go for besides Hado?

Convince me that he's a destructive force and I might change my mind (highly unlikely though.)

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Hado is also pretty high on my suspect list, but say we lynch him and he turns out to be town.
That would be awful.
And then say the night kill were RB ? (assuming he's town).
Lynching Hado means risking our two strongest townies. I don't want to take that risk right now. Not until it's a necessary move, which I hope it won't become.

So I don't want to lynch Hado although I've suspected him since the start.
But we still need a lynch. Who do you propose we go for besides Hado?

Convince me that he's a destructive force and I might change my mind (highly unlikely though.)

Why you keep backing Hado and RB in the same instance? If you won't vote for Hado, so be it. The town can get a Hado lynch.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I accidentally clicked edit right now but I didn't change anything.

Why you keep backing Hado and RB in the same instance? If you won't vote for Hado, so be it. The town can still get a Hado lynch.

EBWOP

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I agree.

I reckin me or you are prime targets. Everybody else appears to be so easily bent.

I hate the fact that Hado is obvious mafia. Really detracts from the mystery of the game.

If either one of us dies, we were right. If rummy or zerk dies, we were right. If Neb or Puffy dies, we know which of the two was town and it solves the game because the patterns are already set. There's just a couple more pieces to the puzzle.

 

[Sinny91]

Hado is also pretty high on my suspect list, but say we lynch him and he turns out to be town.
That would be awful.
And then say the night kill were RB ? (assuming he's town).
Lynching Hado means risking our two strongest townies. I don't want to take that risk right now. Not until it's a necessary move, which I hope it won't become.

So I don't want to lynch Hado although I've suspected him since the start.
But we still need a lynch. Who do you propose we go for besides Hado?

Convince me that he's a destructive force and I might change my mind (highly unlikely though.)

I dont understand how you can hold Hado both under suspicision and entertain the notion that he could be a 'strong townie'..

What has Hado provided for the benefit of the town? Consistancy and clarity are severely lacking.
And it is consitancy and clarity I seek most in the Towns people.

On a shitty device and trying to manage my data allowance. My posts could be composed a little better... but you know me.

 

[redbaron]

And it is consitancy and clarity I seek most in the Towns people.

No. You seek people who feed your ego, regardless of likely alignment.

http://intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=528420&postcount=67

That was your (predictable) post #4 in this thread. You're gunning for whoever looks like the biggest authority figure, because that's as far as your limited mentality ever extends.

The only thing consistent and clear about your approach, is that none of what you've said is actually well-reasoned. If Hado turns up scum, congratulations on lucking out on a stupid tunnel.

 

[redbaron]

No. You seek people who feed your ego, regardless of likely alignment.

That was your (predictable) post #4 in this thread. You're gunning for whoever looks like the biggest authority figure, because that's as far as your limited mentality ever extends.

The only thing consistent and clear about your approach, is that none of what you've said is actually well-reasoned. If Hado turns up scum, congratulations on lucking out on a stupid tunnel.

EBWOP: Linking Sinny's 4th post that I entered wrong above.

http://intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=528420&postcount=67

 

[Puffy]

Puffy listen to me. I will not argue your innocence, because right now whether you are town is inconsequential, but that doesn't mean I or anyone else has doubts for you.

But think. The only people who have even uttered your name recently are Neb, Hado and RB. Doesn't that seem suspect to you? I have suspected Hado from the beginning. You must vote for Hado Puffy.

That's not really the point to me ESC. It doesn't matter if someone mistrusts or dislikes me, and that they do doesn't effect my vote on them, for their reasons could still be legitimate. Being defensive and attacking someone because they attacked you isn't useful to town and blinds the accuracy of your judgement.

Like I said, if you are town and you're making a legitimate claim against hado you need 5 other votes, and the best means to do that is to lay out a thorough case. We really don't want a scenario where the vote is divided as its better that someone is lynched to confirm who is right and start rallying the town. So if you're sticking your guns to him and won't change its really your responsibility if you're town to do this, or people will assume you're intentionally dividing the vote and it'll swing against you.

I really do need to sleep now though.

 

[redbaron]

The Sinny-wagonis literally the easiest to exploit because it's the most transparent. If I were mafia I'd be riding it all day because I know she'd never, ever let it go and I'd have completely frozen 1 town vote for free, while simultaneously garnering a strong voice to fight all my battles.

Simultaneously, she'll never suspect the people supporting her as being mafia because her ego won't allow it and just loves the stroking.

Meanwhile Sinny, there's currently 5 people questioning the reasoning and logic behind voting for Hadoblado. That means there's a minimum of 2 Townies you're not convincing, which means that unless some combination of Puffy/Zerk/Hado/RB/Nebulous features all 3 mafia - you're not getting anywhere.

 

[redbaron]

The Sinny-wagonis literally the easiest to exploit because it's the most transparent. If I were mafia I'd be riding it all day because I know she'd never, ever let it go and I'd have completely frozen 1 town vote for free, while simultaneously garnering a strong voice to fight all my battles.

Simultaneously, she'll never suspect the people supporting her as being mafia because her ego won't allow it and just loves the stroking.

Meanwhile Sinny, there's currently 5 people questioning the reasoning and logic behind voting for Hadoblado. That means there's a minimum of 2 Townies you're not convincing, which means that unless some combination of Puffy/Zerk/Hado/RB/Nebulous features all 3 mafia - you're not getting anywhere.

EBWOP: Strong in conviction, not in reasoning*

Since I'm town, I can see that you're banking on having read on an inter-connected mafia ploy before we even know for sure who any of the mafia actually are.

It's just a bad move from every angle.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

That's not really the point to me ESC. It doesn't matter if someone mistrusts or dislikes me, and that they do doesn't effect my vote on them, for their reasons could still be legitimate. Being defensive and attacking someone because they attacked you isn't useful to town and blinds the accuracy of your judgement.

Like I said, if you are town and you're making a legitimate claim against hado you need 5 other votes, and the best means to do that is to lay out a thorough case. We really don't want a scenario where the vote is divided as its better that someone is lynched to confirm who is right and start rallying the town. So if you're sticking your guns to him and won't change its really your responsibility if you're town to do this, or people will assume you're intentionally dividing the vote and it'll swing against you.

I really do need to sleep now though.

Puffy I gave you my reasons. Go back to the 6/7 Neb vote. Why couldn't they get Neb lynched? Because Happy, Artsu, rummy, Sinny, and I abstained! None of us wanted to lynch a townie on the first day. But one of two things happened on that day Puffy. Either zerkalo was bussing and reneged her vote to protect Neb or all of the mafia already voted and couldn't convince the rest of the town to vote. If all of the mafia voted, and we know Helvete and Cheesy were town, that means our suspects are Hado, RB, zerk and you, Puffy. Right now I have to choose between zerk and you, Puffy, and I can't do that. I need to you vote Hado so I can trust you, Puffy.

Zerk could be mafia, but that only makes sense if she is in it with Neb and I have reason to believe zerk's Neb and Cheesy votes were town but this information relies on how you choose to vote.

 

[Sinny91]

You talk shit Baron.

"She'll never suspect the people supporting her" ... and who are those people exactly? Oh yea JUST EYES.

We have a strong alliance built on trust amd mutual understanding.
That is going to put sour grapes in the mouths of mafia. Choke on them.

Oh Baron, you are as boring as ever... My large ego has nothing to do with your premature ejaculation.
Take it up with life, not me.

 

[redbaron]

You talk shit Baron.

"She'll never suspect the people supporting her" ... and who are those people exactly? Oh yea JUST EYES.

Ruminator has her vote on Hado.

So far this has been the depth of your analysis: People supporting me are likely town. People not supporting me are likely mafia.

Oh Baron, you are as boring as ever... My large ego has nothing to do with your premature ejaculation.
Take it up with life, not me.

Bit rich coming from someone who literally looks like an overgrown pig.

 

[redbaron]

So far this has been the depth of your analysis: People supporting me are likely town. People not supporting me are likely mafia.

Feel free to demonstrate how I'm wrong and how this hasn't been the case if you can. So far the only barometer for whether or not you suspect someone is whether or not they're voting Hado or not.

Snort snort.

 

[Sinny91]

An over grown pig? What are you 5 years old lmafo.

Just because Ruminator cast a vote on Hado that doesnt make her a supporter of me, although I'd like to think that does.
Given my overly large ego n all.

Wish the days werent so long. Eyes is right. There are only limited moves from now on.

 

[redbaron]

@Puffy or anyone who thinks EyeSeeCold is 'new' and that he's just an 'innocent townie' way in over his head. Do you still seriously believe that?

These are all his posts from Day 1.

Hmm.. call Hado out then defend him. That would be a good way to appear like a townie without drawing too much attention.

I'm here, I'm here.

As others have been saying I don't see the need to vote so early there's no pattern to establish as of yet, we should wait until the mafia makes there move. Unless you guys are expert veterans then go ahead.

We have a sheriff?

Happy
Nebulous
Hado

redbaron


Cheeseumpuffs
Helvete
zerkalo
Artsu Tharaz
ruminator
redbaron

Sinny
Puffy
Rook †



Hado seemed the most eager to get things started and was the first to vote(suspicious), but then promptly unvoted to make himself seem like he is pro-townie. I can't really explain my Neb and Happy suspicions.

redbaron because as the second to vote he is quick to get rid of the newb.

Also Rook was outed as a townie with a relatively low activity which might be a trend.

I implore the town not to lynch anyone before the day is over. Some say it is better that we lynch now rather than wait for a NK however the chances of lynching a mafioso are 1:4. That may be good enough for roulette but consider that if we take down one of our own today, the mafia will certainly take down another tonight and we will have lost 3 members by then.

So please, hold your votes and let the mafia make their move. I pray for the poor soul who is to be sacrificed but this is necessary lest we make it easier for them.

If you are fixed in your convictions then at least plead your case with solid reasoning.

If you are both alive by tomorrow, I will reaffirm my suspicions for hado. He is the prime kill for mafia as the most active in the town and his survival could only mean that he is one of them.

On the other hand if you or hado are NKd then I reaffirm my suspicions of Happy and Neb.

We wait for NK and see who survives which immediately establishes two patterns: activity of those most likely to be mafia and activity of those who are townie. Right now you and redbaron seem the most suspicious for bandwagoning votes to fast track a lynching, of course a mafia would be eager to get rid of a townie, so if neither of you are dead by tomorrow then we know mafia doesn't bandwagon.

Also why has there been little focus on Happy? He is not lurking but doesn't provide much content.

As opposed to likely mafioso hado, I find your lack of eagerness to convict a popular suspect reason enough to believe that you're townie.

EBWOP: if neither of you are dead tomorrow then we know media does indeed bandwagon.

I disagree. Scum are most likely to be proactive, especially on the first day. On the first day they haven't talked among themselves yet so their #1 priority is getting someone lynched to make it easier, as well as putting in the most effort to fit in and assuage doubt.




Without anything to go on in the first day all assertiveness does is show who is most eager to kill.

Shit I don't have time to catch up.

I didn't want to vote but I mustvote Hado. If I die tonight, I want pitchforks pointed at Hado, redbaron and helvete and Happy.

wtf cheese?

I'm town, Sinny is town. zerk is probably town.

With Helvete and Cheesypoofs dead (rest their souls) we have some data to go on. I have to think about it though.

Does this really look like a 'new', fumbling player to anyone?

 

[Sinny91]

I share 90% of Eyes views and I'm new to the game.

Doth are still protesting to much.

Can we hurry up and kill these peeps please.

Oink oink.

 

[redbaron]

An over grown pig? What are you 5 years old lmafo.

I'm 6 actually.

Wish the days werent so long. Eyes is right. There are only limited moves from now on.

There's actually a dozen or so moves that an intelligent and proactive town could start making at this kind of juncture. It just seems limited to you because your brain is limited.

 

[Hadoblado]

Guh.

Just got up, feel like shit.

I've read through what's happened since last night, and it's been super productive. I may feel bad, but I feel really good about where this game is going (in a hypothetical, 'what if feelings actually matched the value of external context?' kinda way.

See how ESC and Puffy are talking to each other?


jango!

 

[redbaron]

@Neb

Also, anyone who says they're 100% certain of anything besides their own role is automatically not green on my list.

That would be Hado and RB.

I'm not certain on Hado, I've actually said as much. I've said that the reason I'm not voting Hado is because I think he's a poor choice for scum at this juncture for two reasons:

1. there's other people doing many more blatantly anti-town things than Hadoblado
2. with the amount of people easily slipping the net via lurking their way to being unnoticed, both the Hado-wagon and the ESC-wagon reek of availability heuristic

Town is NOT digging far enough into people or forcing certain players into scrutiny. The choices of the town here are not diametric as it's being made out. This isn't Hado vs. ESC, and I'm imploring the rest of the town to not get sucked into that. If you have other lines of thought, start digging and pressuring people.

You said you feel like Town loses if Hado and I are killed, but it doesn't have to. We can't be the only ones going out of our way to call people into question.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

An over grown pig? What are you 5 years old lmafo.

Just because Ruminator cast a vote on Hado that doesnt make her a supporter of me, although I'd like to think that does.
Given my overly large ego n all.

Wish the days werent so long. Eyes is right. There are only limited moves from now on.

It is funny because Hado+RB have no case for anyone else being mafia except for me and it's only because I've been pressuring them for the longest. How can they not have an idea of who is mafia after we've come so far in the game?

What are you guys going to do if I'm lynched as mafia? You still would need two more perps and there is no one else to finger. Both RB and Hado have said repeatedly that once they're done with me then they'll go after someone else. That is poor thinking that will get us all killed,we don't have time to be so blind and single-minded. The mafia links should be obvious right now where people can pin at least two members together.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

And not just pin two members but have a plan for the third.

 

[Nebulous]

Guh.

I feel really good about where this game is going (in a hypothetical, 'what if feelings actually matched the value of external context?' kinda way.

See how ESC and Puffy are talking to each other?


jango!

Oh I've been getting increasingly worried about where the game is going :/
We're all split up
INTPf: Civil War
*starts chanting* United we stand, divided we fall
We need to work as a team! That doesn't mean not to question each other, it just wants we should work together as a town to get someone lynched.

It is good that peeps are talking to other though, true true. But we need to work togethhherrrr

 

[ruminator]

Because he's 100% right in how he's read me.

If he put me in the situation of propping me up as being so very Town, and I was mafia: I'd be getting him NK'd. It's the only logical solution if I'm mafia and he's town. It would solidify my place as trusted because he pegs me as his absolute top read as being Town.

Then he dies, and he flips green. I now have a confirmed townsperson giving me a glowing recommendation as being town. I'd barely have to try to lead the mafia to victory at that point.

What I don't get, is how a person wouldn't get this. You are again, sewing discord and painting out very simple and easily understood courses of action as being sketchy.

Why would you NK him if he is vouching for you?

 

[Sinny91]

Because we're already right.

Hado and Baron are Mafia.

The only people holding us back at the moment are the other fickle towns people.

Im still yet to see one strong case for keeping Hado in the game... I'm awaiting Nebs clarification on Hado issue.

Neither of them are town team players. Its so obvious its painful.

 

[redbaron]

Why would you NK him if he is vouching for you?

Because what mafia NK's the people vouching for them? By him being so obvious about what he thinks, I could NK him and even if he's playing it as some kind of gambit to bait me into an NK that actually arouses suspicion of the town because by some off-chance the town thinks that I'm mafia because Hadoblado said I was town andthen he got killed...that's such a far-fetched and ludicrous gambit that I don't think any sane person could play.

 

[QuickTwist]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

1. Hadoblado - 3, EyeSeeCold, ruminatior, Sinny91
2. Nebulous - 0
3. Happy - 0
4. Zerkalo - 0
5. ruminator - 0
6. redbaron - 0
7. Puffy - 1, Puffy
8. Rook Vanilla Townie
9. Helvete Vanilla Townie
10. Cheeseumpuffs Vanilla Townie
11. Sinny91 - 0
12. EyeSeeCold - 2, Hadoblado, redbaron
13. Artsu Tharaz - 0

Not Voting - 3, Nebulous, Happy, zerkalo,

GAME DAY ENDS IN ~21hours, 50min

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160523T18&p0=159&font=cursive

Vote Ruminator

Vote: EyeSeeCold

Ruminator

Vote EyeSeeCold

Vote Hado

Vote Hado

I vote Hado

Vote redbaron

VOTE HADO

Hado

Unvote

Unvote redbaron

Vote Puffy

UNVOTE ZERKALO

VOTE ARTSU THARAZ

Unvote Puffy

Vote Puffy

unvote Puffy

I am not counting this unvote. Unvotes are to be bold and Red. I have no idea where unvoting in Lime came from, but I sure didn't make that rule.

 

[ruminator]

Because what mafia NK's the people vouching for them? By him being so obvious about what he thinks, I could NK him and even if he's playing it as some kind of gambit to bait me into an NK that actually arouses suspicion of the town because by some off-chance the town thinks that I'm mafia because Hadoblado said I was town andthen he got killed...that's such a far-fetched and ludicrous gambit that I don't think any sane person could play.

Are you saying that if X is town and Y is mafia, and X tells everyone that Y is town, Y would want to NK X? I feel that Y would want to keep X around in the game, because X trusts Y and will continue vouching for him.

 

[redbaron]

It is funny because Hado+RB have no case for anyone else being mafia except for me and it's only because I've been pressuring them for the longest. How can they not have an idea of who is mafia after we've come so far in the game?

Oh look, more lies coming from ESC.

Here's my very first posts on Day 2:

Spoiler

Vote analysis:


10 voted, meaning there's a minimum 1 mafia vote overall. I'd be willing to wager there's a minimum of 2 mafia voting, and that at least 1 of them was on Cheeseums.

Based on that, I want to hear from ruminator. She was already a 30-40% mafia read in my book, but Hado convinced me Cheesums was a little more likely.

Vote Ruminator[/QUOTE]

Well, I was also meant to add that I also think that one of the not voters are mafia, if not both. I'm sure of that and I'm sure that at least 1 mafia vote was on Cheeseums.

Also just so that all town are aware, what I'm doing now is exactly why I wanted a lynch so badly. Whether it's a good result or not, it gives us information to work off and gets us closer to lynching mafia. A no-lynch would have been just as terrible.

Also Zerkalo, I want to know why you've second-guessed the wisdom of lynching Nebulous from start to finish. Not only were you hesitant to even throw a vote her way, you even advocated for us to switch targets.

So far you've done very little that could potentially cause a stir but as I see it, you're not really doing anything impactful. Either with your vote or your words. You're playing exactly the supportive and seemingly helpful role you're supposed to play, without ever actually helping the town cause.

The voting patterns don't add up and neither does your reasonings so far. What's your read on Nebulous?

No. I think the NK is either:

1. Hunting for a likely cop by targeting a semi-active, out of the way townie who's trying to save face

OR

2. A decision made to deliberately be obscure by way of Helvete's lower post count, leaving no real trail but still eliminating someone who showed active participation in voting. Helvete made it clear that his intentions were town and that he's dedicated to lynching scum with his plea that we really unite.

3. Intended to sew discord by virtue of not eliminating Hado. Right now Hadoblado is in the sights of two people who I think could be town.

~

Honestly I'm suspicious of your last minute Cheesums vote as much as Zerkalo, as well as the fact that a lot of what you've said has related to:

A. making us think about the mafia meta-game, as a potential psych out. Sort of like pre-empting that because you seem to be helping us be more aware of the mafia mentality, you're helping town. When actually you're just sewing discord and making decision-making harder for the town by telling them what they already know.

B. you've basically just echoed things that Hado or I have said at this point without that much original helpful thought process.

You're going in the Zerkalo box of verbally supportive but not action-oriented supportive.

Right now:
Puffy
Zerkalo
Ruminator

Y'all motherfuckers got some 'splaining to do.

There's bona-fide examples of me outright pressuring multiple people into talking so that the Town can pressure them into explaining their shady actions. And you're saying I'm offering no alternatives? Get real.

What are you guys going to do if I'm lynched as mafia?

Be glad about increasing our chances of winning?

If you flip red, it also gives us a plethora of 100% confirmed suspicious posts in your entire posting history - while simultaneously making all of your voting history confirmed as suspicious at the same time. Lots of patterns to draw from that.

Like...I'm not sure where you're going with this?? It's like you know just how guilty you are right now, and you're appealing to the town, "look I'm mafia okay, but don't vote me because then you won't catch the other mafia! If you vote Hado and RB, you'll catch two at once!"

The fact is, that it is in no way bad for us to lynch you if you're mafia. End of story. You're saying lots of anti-town things, and outright distorting people's perceptions about what's going on.

Right now you're either:
Town and absolutely terrible at this (despite the fact that you're actually a highly intelligent and insightful poster outside of this thread)
OR
Mafia

You still would need two more perps and there is no one else to finger. Both RB and Hado have said repeatedly that once they're done with me then they'll go after someone else.

Whoa, you're kidding right?

You mean to say that Hadoblado and RB are going to try and lynch mafia?!?!?! OMG YOU CAUGHT US RED-HANDED DOOD!

That is poor thinking that will get us all killed,we don't have time to be so blind and single-minded. The mafia links should be obvious right now where people can pin at least two members together.

I love how you're literally just echoing my sentiments at this point. I've been telling the town to stop playing the tunnel-vision game for the last day and meanwhile you've done nothing but tunnel-vision on Hado and me. Even your accusations toward Puffy/Nebulous are being tied back to how people must be related to Hado or me.

You're playing the false dichotomy game and assuming with more certainty than I am not only who you're suspicious of, but who you're certain they're linked to. I mean, wow!

For a new player you sure must be amazing at this game ESC. Not only have you ascertained the identities of 2 mafia on the first day, you've almost found their 3rd accomplice - just like that! Amazing!

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

im actually starting to wish hado/rb gets lynched because none of you show any willingness to atleast reconsider your decision, and until you reconsider, the game wont move in any meaningful direction
you wont get any votes for either hado or rb from me though

here's ehy i think there's no way both rb and hado are mafia at the same time:

1) their association with one another is ridiculously strong, this alone is enough telltale sign ffs
2) they have practically antagonized all players at this point with their finger pointing, whereas mafia is likely to avoid taking sides and win over players
3) cheese lynch votes would not have happened without their pressuring, why, pray tell, would they both push for a town to get lynched if they know they're town?

im not eliminating possibility that one of them could be mafia, like i said before. but i dont see any telltale sign as to who is more likely to be mafia and neither do any of you obviously since you keep pointing fingers at both at the same time

 

[redbaron]

Are you saying that if X is town and Y is mafia, and X tells everyone that Y is town, Y would want to NK X? I feel that Y would want to keep X around in the game, because X trusts Y and will continue vouching for him.

If it was just a generic, "I think this person is town" accusation.

The glowing recommendation Hadoblado gave me is something he would have been right about though. I've played a decent number of strategy games with Hadoblado before and his read is correct. Whether he's mafia or not, I would have NK'd him.

That way the lasting impression of Hadoblado, a dead, confirmed town member is: RB is 100% Town. I trust him.

Everything in Mafia is subject to change. Which means that I would have taken a confirmed town read from a confirmed townie straight away - because of the very fact that it's the not obvious thing to do - and not obvious things are exactly what the mafia are supposed to do.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

btw qt iirc i voted for esc and didnt unvote yet

 

[Nebulous]

Because we're already right.

Hado and Baron are Mafia.

The only people holding us back at the moment are the other fickle towns people.

Im still yet to see one strong case for keeping Hado in the game... I'm awaiting Nebs clarification on Hado issue.

Neither of them are town team players. Its so obvious its painful.

I said multiple times that I do suspect Hado, but I don't want to lynch him.
You can't deny that he's been valuable. He's gotten the whole thread going. Got the message to people that we need to work together to lynch every day, while still questioning and drilling each other.
Townie or not, he's useful.
What I'm really worried about is the "what if" of Hado being town. If we kill him, and RB survives the night, the town still has some hope. But if RB gets night killed, it'll be anarchy.
I think we need a leader. I just can't see everyone uniting and working together without Hado or RB, which sucks.

So I'm not voting for Hado because that risk is too great and it's likely that RB will be night killed if Hado gets lynched.

1. We lynch Hado
2. Hado is town
3. RB (town) is night killed because then the town will have no leaders. It makes sense that the mafia would do that.
4. We're all bickering amongst each other and we end up losing.

1. We lynch Hado
2. Hado is mafia
3. RB survives the night, a lurker or someone who we're pretty sure is town gets killed. The mafia would do that because we'd probably lynch RB the next day, and he's town. That's another day wasted.
4. The mafia kills another townie and by now the odds are stacked against us, with... Rook, Cheeseums, Helevete, Hado, the NK, RB, and the other NK dead. That's 7 townies dead. And two mafia still out there.

You're certain (or as close as you can get in this game) that Hado is mafia? Good. Then we can lynch him later when need be. Why don't we try to find the rest of the mafia?
It makes sense that if you're sure about Hado, you shouldn't waste time just repeating that he's scum. Try to find the others.

 

[redbaron]

im actually starting to wish hado/rb gets lynched because none of you show any willingness to atleast reconsider your decision, and until you reconsider, the game wont move in any meaningful direction

What? How can you say that after I just posted this:

1. there's other people doing many more blatantly anti-town things than Hadoblado
2. with the amount of people easily slipping the net via lurking their way to being unnoticed, both the Hado-wagon and the ESC-wagon reek of availability heuristic

Town is NOT digging far enough into people or forcing certain players into scrutiny. The choices of the town here are not diametric as it's being made out. This isn't Hado vs. ESC, and I'm imploring the rest of the town to not get sucked into that. If you have other lines of thought, start digging and pressuring people.

You said you feel like Town loses if Hado and I are killed, but it doesn't have to. We can't be the only ones going out of our way to call people into question.

My strongest reads are on ESC and Ruminator. Until now Ruminator has been largely absent and no one else has gone to any real effort to pressure her. I've grilled Puffy, Nebulous and even you Zerkalo but I'm not reading any of you higher than ESC.

The whole point of the Town having so many players, is that everyone can work to force information out of mafia. I'm currently making up a huge portion of the posts in this thread already, there's only so much I can do. I can't pressure every single person at a time, because then it has no power.

What use is it if I pressure 5 people at the same time? I'm going to miss details everywhere.

If you're town, stop complaining that the enormous pressure I'm bringing to bear on ESC is too 'one-track' and start making your own tracks.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

What? How can you say that after I just posted this:

read the rest of the post, i was being sarcastic.