Forum Mafia Game #1

[Hadoblado]

That is, you can talk and make points, but no more of this "no you!" stuff.

We know where you stand. I'm fine with you bringing up new points, but I'm done with the old ones and they're distracting.

 

[Sinny91]

That is, you can talk and make points, but no more of this "no you!" stuff.

We know where you stand. I'm fine with you bringing up new points, but I'm done with the old ones and they're distracting.

Now you wanna lecture us (me) on posting. We've had how many pages of your bullshit? Whats the matter, loosing ground?

Can't hack the heat, get out the kitchen.
That's what you proposed from the get go, no?

 

[Hadoblado]

...

 

[Sinny91]

And on that note.. I should go to sleep.
God knows when I'll wake up.

Not that I have much more to do.

We've got top mafia suspects, time to lynch one.

My votes on Hado, I hope you all do the rest.

 

[Hadoblado]

She say she gone, but the light still green, hopefully that means she just left her device on, and isn't sitting there hawking waiting to come in and fight again.

I fucked up by pissing her off, which is precisely the thing I was trying to stop RB doing. My bad.

I'm no longer interacting with Sinny unless there is a genuine case she puts on the table. She's angry, I get it, I'm responsible. But anger does not help catch scum. Anger makes people tunnel. My plan was always to confirm her town and then direct my attention elsewhere. That's what I'm going to do.

Puffy I think you're scum. As such, I think you'll be wanting to somehow get me lynched today. I'm saying this right now, if I am lynched with Puffy's vote on me. Lynch Puffy. Hopefully none of that comes to pass, and we get to talk this out after I've slept, but if it does, suspect foul play. I've shit talked puffy a lot, with the promise of a reckoning when we're both on at the same time. We need to have that talk, and puffy does not want to have that talk. Likewise, his scummers are going to try and save him, so if people are crucial to my lynching who are not Sinny, increase your red read on them by an order of magnitudes if I flip green.

Unvote

 

[Happy]

I'm also highly suspicious of Puffy. If I end up changing my vote, which I very well may, it'll likely be for Puffy.

Hado, I'm going to sleep on what you said earlier. I'm not entirely sure how far I should read into it...

 

[Hadoblado]

Don't read into it at all if you already think it's fine for me to trust RB.

If you don't think it's fine, and this feeling is making you suspicious of me, then I implore you to look into it further.

You're a moderate, and I actually give a fair damn what you think. Not only is my life kinda in your hands, but if you suspect the same person I do, this also puts us in a position to make something happen. I'm not saying I trust you, and if you don't already trust me I don't expect you to change your mind, but you're now someone who has my attention, when before I was distracted by a lot of other happenings. So ask any question you need. I've got some down time.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Wait Artzu you play poker? Do you play at a level at which you make money off poker?

I play at fairly low stakes, but I can make a modest amount of winnings from it if I'm actually trying. I often play while drunk and still manage to win more often than I lose, but honestly a lot of that is probably luck. It's hard to know whether one is truly winning or not with poker.

But yeah, I'm actually quite a good player.

Also, why are so many people spelling my name with a z?

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

hey i have about 10 min to spare now...havent read through past pages and im just going to jump straight to point:

puffy is shady as hell and has been my top mafia read since day 1
rb stop being a selective binch and start grilling puffy

hado requote your main shit talk questions for puffy in one post
lets see what he has to say in reply
though i doubt the shadiness will wear off no matter what he says now tbh, as he is unlikely to suddenly change game an stop playing the ambiguous restrained moderate part

there is a hado/esc divide amongst poeple right now, but with puffy i think it is possible to somewhat reach consensus. puffy, come and reply

 

[Happy]

@hadoblado

What bothers me is that you can only really trust RB if:

A) you're both mafia

Or

B) you're a cop. You've checked him. He's town.

You can't read people 100% in mafia unless you have certain powers. Judge of character is basically worthless.

I'm open to being convinced otherwise. But from the angles I've currently considered, these are the only ways you could 100% trust him.

 

[Hadoblado]

@Artsu
Sorry, there's a z in it, so my lazy heuristic assumes there's always a z.

The reason I ask is because I think you can now be held accountable. Poker is also a very complex game, and if you don't suck at it, you're a smart person. So I want you to pick up your game. Also, I'd like to talk to you about poker after the game, because I'd like to get good but I'm naive and don't want to get rekt.

Oh, and it's not luck if you make money over time. Or, it's really unlikely to be.

@Zerkalo
I'm in the middle of going back through posts and reevaluating everyone. So far you're coming up rather green, but I'm only on post #200. I want to add you to who I consider town. Not only because that's a good thing to do, but because in doing so it would consolidate my read on Puffy, in my mind one of you is definitely scum, but he looks waaaay worse.

Most of my shit talk was just shit talk tbh. Not that many questions. I will do as you ask if I have time, but I want him there responding when I come at him. He's a well considered and gentle fellow, and he likes to think between posts. I don't want him having time to think of excuses. A scum needs time to think of justifications, town already know why the things they do are consistent or they wouldn't have done them.

@Happy
100% is short for 99.9999%. He could have been struck on the head by a falling boulder and had his capacity to think drastically reduced, but from my perspective, knowing that I'm town, the only way RB is mafia is if he was a brilliant genius who walked into this game better than I am by a very large amount, then chose the course of action that left things up to chance. He had to choose not to win immediately when he decided not to NK me and assume a role of established town leader, which is certified non-genius move.

So no, nothing is absolutely certain. He could be rolling dice behind his decisions for instance. But outside of genuine 100% certainties such as that Rook was modkilled and was vanilla town, this is the absolute most certain of anything I can get. And when you have those sorts of certainties, you can't not accept them for fear of the 0.0001% scenario. If I can't trust RB, then there's no point playing this game because everything is unknowable and random, winning would just be fluke.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

@Artsu
Sorry, there's a z in it, so my lazy heuristic assumes there's always a z.

The reason I ask is because I think you can now be held accountable. Poker is also a very complex game, and if you don't suck at it, you're a smart person. So I want you to pick up your game. Also, I'd like to talk to you about poker after the game, because I'd like to get good but I'm naive and don't want to get rekt.

A smart person?

Hado, do you not read my posts? I'm a bona fide genius.

I just have a whole host of mental health issues to deal with, social commitments, monetary/resource problems etc.

I've been reading a fair amount of the game, and I have made a fair few observations regarding the intentions of the players. The problem is that I am picking up on a lot of things that I don't think the people would want shared publicly, and since I am trying to be considerate of the effects of what I do outside of the game moreso than inside the game, I don't wish to share my intermediate observations.

I guess the main trend to my observations, is that the people who seem suspicious in the game, seem suspicious on the forum as well, and like-wise for those who seem innocent. So I'm trying to sort of see it from the perspective of the person as to what their postings in this thread mean, and that can be a very tiring process. So it's like, the deviation from their usual 'character' as one of the players was talking about earlier.

So this game involves a fair amount of deception, both from Mafia and Town, and what I mean by metagame is "what does my strategy look like, what will the other person think my strategy looks like, what will the other person think I think they think my strategy looks like", etc. although metagame can also refer simply to the strategy behind the game itself.

And yeah, I think it would be great to discuss poker strategy, I don't have a lot of opportunity to discuss it with people, and I have quite a few ideas, include some possible relations between use of the 8 Cognitive Functions, and how the person plays the game. I haven't played competitively in real life, apart from with people I know personally which is mainly just as a social activity, so I don't know too much about the people-reading aspect of the game, e.g. tells and so on, however I have a fairly good guide on how to play well online, at small stakes anyway.

 

[Happy]

I understand. No further questions.

Unvote redbaron

Vote Puffy

 

[Hadoblado]

@Artsu
Sorry if I forced you out of deep cover, I know you were probably trying to fly under mafia radar. I wanted you out because there aren't enough people holding fort on the town front line. In your absence it's literally been three mafia versus six town, of which, multiple are being very unreliable.

This isn't me confirming you town. This is me saying that we're talking as if you are because if there was a time to pop up and have a sleeper town start contibuting, it would be now as I have gone done goofed and lost all momentum. So I'm giving you a neutral read now you appear to have agreed to start existing.

I would like to know who you think are scum. Don't tell me about towners if you're afraid of spoiling their plans. Just your scum reads.

@Happy
I've got an honourary vote on Puffy. I'm not actually posting it until later for fear of sending people the message that I want him gone now. But it's there.

 

[Happy]

@ hado

My vote for puffy has nothing to do with your suspicions.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep.

 

[Puffy]

Sorry for coming in late, I’m still on a round trip back travelling and this is genuinely the first few hours I’ve had spare to assess the game.

My view of what I’ve read thus far of day 2:

While RB and Hado have appeared smart to me in how they’ve played so far, they’re stupid in the one regard that I’d expect them to be if they are town: they’re too proud to let stupid remarks go by and risk friendships (which even with every clever ruse possible is actually necessary to town victory). You’re increasingly alienating ESC and Sinny with your actions who are both still potential townies, and in so doing are dividing the town in two.

This has no productive gain and it should be bloody obvious; it can only end in no lynch from divided vote, and damage the possibility of future coordination, which guarantees town loss.

I’m increasingly feeling I’m the one most likely to die today from what I’m reading, or maybe ruminator, regardless of my innocence. The reason is the only way I see for town to win right now is to momentarily put suspicions of the two camps forming to one side, and focus on targeting a suspect who is a happy medium. As far as I can see that’s me, as I’ve already seen Sinny, RB, Hado, and now Happy and Zerkalo express distrust for whatever reason.

The other reason I think I’m likely to die is that my strongest town reads so far are Hado, RB, and ESC, which puts me in neither the sinny/esc camp or the hado/rb camp. I’m in a frustrating position as it means the more I honestly express myself the more this image of me being constructed as a non-committal mafia is going to be propagated.

This gives me the most reason to be as forthright as possible while I can today, and to encourage my interrogation.

A) So I can have the biggest sway on the game for later in the case I die and flip green.
B) As I know I’m green and ultimately would prefer that town does not lose another active member this round by laying out suspicions early.

But if it comes up that the town continues as it is, no lynch is imminent, and there is no consensus on another person, I will voluntarily put my head on the block and vote myself if its truly needed for a lynch to occur. If I’m wrong and hado or RB are mafia I will be truly impressed, but I think it incredibly likely that at least one of them is not, and that there will be enough capable heads here to extract enough information from my death to make a lynch more valuable to town than no lynch.

I’ve read what RB has to say and will get to his post in a while (on a train and laptop is about to run out of power), but hado, happy, sinny, zerkalo please could you expand as from what I can see you’ve said nothing of substance about me so far. I will be honest I’m highly suspicious of how people are suddenly bandwagoning this (particularly happy and zerkalo), and would warn this is exactly what happened to cheeseums.

 

[Hadoblado]

Zerkalo is confirmed town to me.

His pressure on both ESC and Puffy, who I'm very confident are scum, was decisive, with a real risk of getting them lynched if a bandwagon started. If either of these players flips red, zerkalo is confirmed green for all of you who don't share my convictions.

His questions have been pointed and he's taken a genuine interest in hunting mafia. He shows the appropriate suspicious mindset of a town. Constantly prodding, and following through on his pressure. He's also done things in such a way that he is held responsible for his actions, as if he had nothing to hide.

My strong reads are these:
RB + Sinny + Zerkalo = town
ESC + Puffy = scum (I definitely don't suspect ruminator, and this is definitely not sarcasm)

I'm off to bed. I look forward to our clash tomorrow pufpuf :]

 

[ruminator]

Hado,

I don't understand your strategy of saying that if you get lynched and turn green, it proves RB is green? Why would other townies believe that in the first place, what proof does that give them?

 

[redbaron]

It pains me that the rest of the town is putting zero pressure on Ruminator.

Please stop trying to lose this game. Some of you have been bandwagoning Hado since halfway through the first Day cycle, with the flawed reasoning that, "DaY 1 LynChiNg iS teH suXzz!!" while people who're suspected mafia by multiple people (like Ruminator) receive zero fucking pressure.

Mind boggling.

 

[redbaron]

Hado,

I don't understand your strategy of saying that if you get lynched and turn green, it proves RB is green? Why would other townies believe that in the first place, what proof does that give them?

Because he's 100% right in how he's read me.

If he put me in the situation of propping me up as being so very Town, and I was mafia: I'd be getting him NK'd. It's the only logical solution if I'm mafia and he's town. It would solidify my place as trusted because he pegs me as his absolute top read as being Town.

Then he dies, and he flips green. I now have a confirmed townsperson giving me a glowing recommendation as being town. I'd barely have to try to lead the mafia to victory at that point.

What I don't get, is how a person wouldn't get this. You are again, sewing discord and painting out very simple and easily understood courses of action as being sketchy.

 

[redbaron]

I'm just going to have to stand by the fact that if Hado flips red, it's sheer dumb luck at this point.

 

[redbaron]

@Puffy, what makes you think ESC is Town?

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Because he's 100% right in how he's read me.

If he put me in the situation of propping me up as being so very Town, and I was mafia: I'd be getting him NK'd. It's the only logical solution if I'm mafia and he's town. It would solidify my place as trusted because he pegs me as his absolute top read as being Town.

Then he dies, and he flips green. I now have a confirmed townsperson giving me a glowing recommendation as being town. I'd barely have to try to lead the mafia to victory at that point.

What I don't get, is how a person wouldn't get this. You are again, sewing discord and painting out very simple and easily understood courses of action as being sketchy.

Wait, what?

So... if you were mafia, you would get him lynched... so if he was lynched, we would know you were mafia... but he wasn't...?

I don't follow haha

 

[redbaron]

NK = night killed by mafia.
Lynch = town majority vote.

Maybe the post makes more sense now? I think you were just mixing up the terms.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

This game is doing my head in. Seriously.

UNVOTE ZERKALO

VOTE ARTSU THARAZ

 

[Sinny91]

It pains me that the rest of the town is putting zero pressure on Ruminator.

Please stop trying to lose this game. Some of you have been bandwagoning Hado since halfway through the first Day cycle, with the flawed reasoning that, "DaY 1 LynChiNg iS teH suXzz!!" while people who're suspected mafia by multiple people (like Ruminator) receive zero fucking pressure.

Mind boggling.

How is the Hadowagon mindboggling?
Hados mafia and no amount of shit talk will change my opinion.

Theres is no good reason to keep Hado in the game (for townies).

And I aint mad Hado.. you obviously just cant deal.

 

[Sinny91]

Hado wants to start a Puffy lynch.

The last two lynchs Hado pushed were bullshit, whats the bet that his track record doesnt change?

Is anyone here even convinced Hado is town?

 

[redbaron]

It's fine if you think that. Townies shoukd ideally vote for the person they're most suspicious of.

What's not fine is going full tunnel-vision mode and ignoring ample opportunity to find other mafia. If Hado is scum, why?

Where does he link to? Who else is likely scum if Hado is?

 

[Sinny91]

You.

 

[redbaron]

@Ruminator You said your inactivity was a result of it being Day 1.

It's Day 2 and you're not even responding to people. So far you've made two posts that play right into the Town-splitting narrative occurring, and then slinked back into the shadows.

 

[redbaron]

You.

Okay, explain it.

 

[Nebulous]

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, I was trying to catch up on everything. I've only made it to like post #600 (around the top of this page.) And I had to do homework as well. Still have a lot, so I might not be on as much today.

@Hado, I'm sorry for not giving a good explanation as to why I found you suspicious.
I wish I could friking put my thoughts into words, but I suck so badly at that. I can't seem to explain my reasoning unless it's in the moment, otherwise I forget everything except whatever conclusion I came to.

But I know that on Day One I felt very strongly that Hado was mafia. He was the first person to start referring to the mafia as "scum", which I thought was weird. When the game started out I wasn't in the 'let's win this for the town ASAP' mindset, I was more 'well the longer the game is, the more fun, I don't really care at all who wins' mindset. So Hado's enthusiasm from the start for the town to win and his strong resentment of the mafia "scum" seemed out of place and very phony.

I figured that even if Hado was scum, lynching him on the first day might not be very smart because he is contributing a lot, getting the thread moving, bringing in good ideas, etc. (After the high pressured lynching at the end of Day One I really started to get into the 'let's win this for the town' mindset. Especially having my own life at stake like that.)

My suspicions on Day One were something like:
Hado
Ruminator
ESC
Cheese

I thought voting for Ruminator on Day One might be a safer bet (as in if we're going to loose her or Hado I'd rather it be her), and it would be easier to get her lynched.

I had pointed out that Ruminator's decision to "wait until after night one" to contribute was really weird, and then I voted to lynch her. Hado jumped right on to that, quoting me in bold and saying my assessment was "spot on". I was flattered but also felt that it was sorta fishy how Hado had agreed so strongly... My post had only been a few sentences after all. I don't remember if he voted for Ruminator right then or not, but his whole decision to jump onto the scummy Ruminator idea was quite hasty.

If anyone could pull off the enthusiastic-townie-who's-actually-mafia strategy, it would be Hado.
Kudos to you if you are scum just for being so great at it.

Reading your posts from today though.. Idk why exactly, but you just seem more town. Maybe because I agree with your points against ESC.
You're still suspicious, but everyone is. I'm moving you from red to orange on my list though.

So:
ESC
Puffy (reddish- orange)
Hado
RB (pretty sure he's town but idk)

Also, anyone who says they're 100% certain of anything besides their own role is automatically not green on my list.

That would be Hado and RB.

I feel like RB is a townie who believes Hado is also town. I don't want to lynch RB. I say we keep him around. People have accused him of "slip ups", but nothing has really stood out to me as an obvious slip up so much as him considering different points of view or speaking theoretically without explicitly stating that that was what he was doing. Later on in the game if he does seem really scummy for one reason or another I guess we could lynch him (I mean I hate that idea but I can't tell where the game will go.) But as of right now I think lynching him would be a bad idea.

But imagine if we lynched Hado today. If he's mafia, great, we caught one. If he's town, we screwed up big time by killing an extremely valuable player.
No matter what Hado is revealed to be, the night kill seems like it could be RB, who I'm pretty sure is town.
If we loose both Hado and RB... I don't want to say that the town would be screwed but... We would probably be screwed.

So. I say we lynch EyeSeeCold.
If he turns out to be a townie, it sucks that we lost another innocent, but we risk killing a townie every time we lynch. And if we're taking that risk, I'd rather put ESC at stake than a player as valuable as Hado.

Puffy is another person I'd consider lynching, but I'm more convinced that ESC might be scum.

Puffy I think you're scum. As such, I think you'll be wanting to somehow get me lynched today. I'm saying this right now, if I am lynched with Puffy's vote on me. Lynch Puffy. Hopefully none of that comes to pass, and we get to talk this out after I've slept, but if it does, suspect foul play. I've shit talked puffy a lot, with the promise of a reckoning when we're both on at the same time. We need to have that talk, and puffy does not want to have that talk. Likewise, his scummers are going to try and save him, so if people are crucial to my lynching who are not Sinny, increase your red read on them by an order of magnitudes if I flip green.

^^^
These are also good points.

I want to avoid a lynch (for today at least) on Hado.

I'm either going to vote for ESC or Puffy, most likely ESC.
I think we should all do this.

 

[Nebulous]

Okay I've caught up.
Ruminator is yellowish-orange.

Puffy pointed out that the Puffwagon is pretty much the same as what happened with Cheese, which sounds true enough.
My suspicion of Puff has dropped a bit. His post was emanating townie vibes.

ESC is my top pick for a lynch.

 

[QuickTwist]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

1. Hadoblado - 3, EyeSeeCold, ruminatior, Sinny91
2. Nebulous - 0
3. Happy - 0
4. Zerkalo - 0
5. ruminator - 0
6. redbaron - 0
7. Puffy - 1, Happy
8. Rook Vanilla Townie
9. Helvete Vanilla Townie
10. Cheeseumpuffs Vanilla Townie
11. Sinny91 - 0
12. EyeSeeCold - 1, redbaron
13. Artsu Tharaz - 1, Artsu Tharaz

Not Voting - 4, Hadoblado, Nebulous, Zerkalo, Puffy,

GAME DAY ENDS IN ~1day 3hours, 53min

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160523T18&p0=159&font=cursive

Vote Ruminator

Vote: EyeSeeCold

Ruminator

Vote EyeSeeCold

Vote Hado

Vote Hado

I vote Hado

Vote redbaron

VOTE HADO

Hado

Unvote

Unvote redbaron

Vote Puffy

UNVOTE ZERKALO

VOTE ARTSU THARAZ

 

[Sinny91]

Right Neb, your back on my watch list.

Eyes is Town, Hado is mafia. In my view.

Its highly probable that Hado is Mafia. I do not see ANY reason to keep him around, he's poisoning town.

Eyes, Ruminator... please stay on the Hado wagon.

Its conpletely illofical to lynch possible townies when we have an extremely probabl mafia to lynch.


Everyone elses fucked up logic os giving me a ballache.

The mafia has a reason to be a ballache, but the rest of you have no excuses apart from being weak.

 

[Sinny91]

Here's one I prepared earlier: hashtag Art Attack

(Really not read the thread since beginning of day two )

Lessons Learned, End of Day One:

Never underestimate the power of group mentality, and never underestimate the combined power of the final countdown in addition to group peer pressure. I caved. In the last 15 seconds under Redbarons peer pressure to lynch Cheese. Thankfully I left it too late to unvote my original vote, which was for Hado. I'm glad because I didn't want to lynch Cheese anyway. Or Nebulous. Imagine my fright when they decided to lynch themselves anyway! Neb, at least, managed to pull her self back from the brink.. But Cheesums damn you, what's your bloody excuse?

I think me and Eye's have both demonstrated where our loyalties lay in our apparent efforts to subvert the misdirected lynchings of the Towns people. Zerko helped pull it back for Neb, but also jumped on the Cheesewagon. Perhaps you just caved to group think as did I?

I that think Cheese misplaced his trust in Hadoblado. I think the Mafia engineered the lynches on both Neb and Cheese. I think that two mafia can be found in the list of lynch creators. Whilst one is lurking.

My ratings of suspicion are such:

Rook
Cheese
Sinny
Eye's
Neb
Zerk

Ruminator
Artsu

Puffy
Helvete

Happy
Hado
Baron


Hado exerted a lot of influence during day one. Influence is power, and we need to ascertain his.. dubious... loyalties asap. We can keep him around for a 'lively' game. But we are here to win, not to enjoy ourselves whilst we loose. Hado was the one calling for unfounded lynchs, and Baron seems to have given all the support he required... as did a number of us.

If Baron is a Townie as he and Hado claim, they are loose cannons. The mafia will most of all seek to get us to lynch or fellow townies. We cannot afford to throw caution to the wind.

The Mafia's advantage is having knowledge, organisation and a certain level of trust. I propose that we the town's people start getting our shit in order. I am more than willing to work with those townspeople who I am not suspicious of, and those lurkers yet to make their agenda known.

If you are in my suspect list and wish to convince me otherwise, by all means go ahead..

****

Somethings have changed since then... But bleh.

Some of my reasoning for those of you who might have missed it.

 

[redbaron]

After that post, I don't think Hado + Nebulous can both be mafia. One or the other, not both.

Okay I've caught up.
Ruminator is yellowish-orange.

Puffy pointed out that the Puffwagon is pretty much the same as what happened with Cheese, which sounds true enough.
My suspicion of Puff has dropped a bit. His post was emanating townie vibes.

I don't really buy it. Need to hear why Puffy thinks ESC would be Town at this point.

Also, he's playing exactly the path of least threat. The Town is right now aggressively attacking people based on perceived voting patterns. Puffy's response? To opt out of a vote because, "I disagree with both."

And yet, he's not really helping establish who he DOES suspect and building a case for them.

If you think ESC is prime mafia, and Puffy thinks he's prime Town - I don't really see how you can then say that Puffy is emanating townie, can you elaborate at all?

 

[Nebulous]

dividing the town in two.

This has no productive gain and it should be bloody obvious; it can only end in no lynch from divided vote, and damage the possibility of future coordination, which guarantees town loss.

Yea guys teamwork is important. We want a lynch, right? That means we have to agree on someone to lynch before the day is over. That should be our goal.

The other reason I think I’m likely to die is that my strongest town reads so far are Hado, RB, and ESC, which puts me in neither the sinny/esc camp or the hado/rb camp. I’m in a frustrating position as it means the more I honestly express myself the more this image of me being constructed as a non-committal mafia is going to be propagated.

What makes you say ESC has such a strong town read? He seems scummy af.

But if it comes up that the town continues as it is, no lynch is imminent, and there is no consensus on another person, I will voluntarily put my head on the block and vote myself if its truly needed for a lynch to occur. If I’m wrong and hado or RB are mafia I will be truly impressed, but I think it incredibly likely that at least one of them is not, and that there will be enough capable heads here to extract enough information from my death to make a lynch more valuable to town than no lynch.

I’ve read what RB has to say and will get to his post in a while (on a train and laptop is about to run out of power), but hado, happy, sinny, zerkalo please could you expand as from what I can see you’ve said nothing of substance about me so far. I will be honest I’m highly suspicious of how people are suddenly bandwagoning this (particularly happy and zerkalo), and would warn this is exactly what happened to cheeseums.

All this voting to lynch yourself stuff is interesting.
The two people who've done it (that I know of) were me and Cheeseums, and we're both town. (He was proven town and I know that I'm town.) And now Puffy has offered to do it as well if need be. This points to him being town. It could be a clever ruse of course... And we don't know if he'd really do it when it comes down to the wire. But still. It's another parallel between Puffy and umpuffs.

*starts singing "The Only Difference Between Martyrdom And Suicide Is Press Coverage", by P!atD*

 

[Nebulous]

What happened to my avatar it's a fairy ¿¿¿ I didn't do dat

 

[Nebulous]

After that post, I don't think Hado + Nebulous can both be mafia. One or the other, not both.

are you saying that one of us is mafia? If so why? Or are you just saying that we can't both be mafia.
I'm a townie.

I don't really buy it. Need to hear why Puffy thinks ESC would be Town at this point.

yeah. I have no clue how you could could get a "strong town reading" from ESC.

Also, he's playing exactly the path of least threat. The Town is right now aggressively attacking people based on perceived voting patterns. Puffy's response? To opt out of a vote because, "I disagree with both."

I mean he might just genuinely disagree with both.
He's saying that the town isn't working together right now- which we need to - and that he's afraid the vote will be split, resulting in no lynch. He's saying we should find someone who's sort of in the middle, that everyone can agree to lynch.
I don't agree with that part but I understand his reasoning. I'm sticking with what I said before in my long post. I think it would be best to lynch ESC. If we can't get enough people to vote for that, we should try for Puffy. I am suspicious of Hado but don't want to lynch him for reasons stated above.

And yet, he's not really helping establish who he DOES suspect and building a case for them.

If you think ESC is prime mafia, and Puffy thinks he's prime Town - I don't really see how you can then say that Puffy is emanating townie, can you elaborate at all?

Yeah that part I don't understand and would like Puffy to explain.

It's more that that one post had townie vibes when I read it than Puffy himself having townie vibes (if that makes sense.) Most of his reasoning seemed logical, and offering to sacrifice himself in order to have a lynch by the end of the day stood out to me as a townie move. Unless he's a mafia who saw that that martyrdom had lessened suspicion on me and thought it could do the same for him. Also the whole 'teamwork' part (although any mafia would say that as well) is an important part.

We really do need to work together, but still question each other as much as possible.

 

[Puffy]

@Puffy, what makes you think ESC is Town?

You and Hado are acting as if he's a certain prime target, and the essence of the argument as I'm understanding it seems to be that he's acting like a newbie and you think he's smarter than his current level of play.

My first impression of ESC in relation to this game was his post in the 'forum mafia' thread where he said he felt intimidated by the game (and was probably considering dropping out there). He said this before roles were distributed, and I don't think he's a very devious person to have premeditated or developed a self-conscious strategy from this. This is his first game of mafia, of that I'm confident, and so he technically is a newbie.

It struck me in the first day that he was probably one of the least confident players, and so I was leaning towards forgiving his inactivity and newbish questions as signalling a new, unconfident townsman. I genuinely just felt he was probably overwhelmed by the game. That's why even though in the first round I agreed we should target inactives I gave ESC the lowest priority.

To me, ESC is cautious, conservative, values trust, has a certain moral character that makes deceptive behaviour extremely uncomfortable for him and something he has a strong distaste for in others. In short, he's one of the people who from the start I'd assume isn't particularly suited to this game. While the logic of why lynching makes sense in this game has been demonstrated to me, the idea that ESC couldn't get behind the idea of lynching a potentially innocent person to me is consistent with him as I think he's more inclined to project how he would feel in a real-life scenario into the game as a moral dilemna.

I'm obviously not 100% on this. I will re-read and study this day's posts over for consistency and can write again if needed.

 

[Puffy]

the idea that ESC couldn't get behind the idea of lynching a potentially innocent person to me is consistent with him as I think he's more inclined to project how he would feel in a real-life scenario into the game as a moral dilemna.

EBWOP:

Which means he's consequently become most suspicious of you both, and your more cut-throat but logical win at all costs no matter how many die mind-set, as those who are pushing for lynches and have a record of lynching an innocent player. ESC wants to win with the least innocents dieing as possible, and I think is having genuine trouble understanding you.

 

[redbaron]

You're still not adding up. Two posts ago your strongest town reads were ESC, Hado, RB.

Now that I'm asking you why you think ESC is town, you're calling me and Hado suspicious? Who else is suspicious? Why are you sewing dissent around your top 2 town reads as opposed to making a case against others who you're actually suspicious of?

 

[redbaron]

EBWOP: dissent around 2 of your top3 town reads*

 

[Puffy]

I'm confused, as I never said in my posts you were both suspicious? I was giving reasoning why I think ESC is town, and as a part of that why I think he's likely seeing you as suspicious. You're putting words in my mouth that aren't there.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Addressing some things here before I catch up.

Also, why are so many people spelling my name with a z?

My guess is mental association or because of the hard T influencing the S.
Artsu --> Art of War + Sun Tzu --> Artzu

Puffy I think you're scum. As such, I think you'll be wanting to somehow get me lynched today. I'm saying this right now, if I am lynched with Puffy's vote on me. Lynch Puffy. Hopefully none of that comes to pass, and we get to talk this out after I've slept, but if it does, suspect foul play. I've shit talked puffy a lot, with the promise of a reckoning when we're both on at the same time. We need to have that talk, and puffy does not want to have that talk.

That is complete fabrication. Puffy has not been a target of yours or RB's until now.

 

[Happy]

Bleh, this is getting too confusing.

Unvote Puffy

Redacting all votes until I've sat down tonight and looked through everything again.

 

[Happy]

EBWOP:

*retracting

 

[redbaron]

That is complete fabrication. Puffy has not been a target of yours or RB's until now.

What?!

This was on of my earliest posts right after Night, where I clearly implicate Puffy as one of my top targets.

http://intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=529049&postcount=418

 

[Sinny91]

EBWOP:

*retracting

Lynch Hado like a loyal Townsperson and I will trust you.