Does effort matters?

[NTJ]

You know the situations where people say "I put a lot of effort in this?" Well do you care about their effort? What if they totally screw up with the result, but they've put a lot of effort into trying to do it and their intentions were good?

 

[QvotheLionheart]

I think it's the quality and motivations behind ones efforts that matter. If they screw up the result then there efforts weren't substantial enough to achieve the task/goal or the overall plan towards the result was not sufficient enough to achieve the result. Thus resulting in a learning experience and/or new knowledge to be applied towards future efforts.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Effort only matters when titling threads.

 

[Solitaire U.]

^ Beat me to the punch.

Without effort there are no results, so reward the effort and downplay the results.

Works in ESL environments.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Effort matters in that it allows for a better end result. If the result is screwed up even though you tried, than dang. Life isn't fair. It may sound jackassish, but the fact is that it's not. You probably won't get treated perfectly fairly. Whining won't fix it, just keep moving on

 

[Nezaros]

You're judged by the majority based on what is seen, not what is done. Effort is important of course, but usually only to oneself. The only thing most people will care about is results, and if your best effort gives shit results, it's the results that'll be noticed, not the effort. But then it also depends on what the exact situation is.

 

[NTJ]

I'm asking about your personal opinion about effort of the others. I.e. do you care that someone put 20 hours into a project and then he accidentally ruined it? Or gave his best effort and the result was shit. What is YOUR PERSONAL opinion about this, do you care?

 

[HDINTP]

yes

 

[Da Blob]

You know the situations where people say "I put a lot of effort in this?" Well do you care about their effort? What if they totally screw up with the result, but they've put a lot of effort into trying to do it and their intentions were good?

There are three synonyms for the word, effort

attempt
exertion
achievement

Achievement is not correlated with exertion for any attempt.

 

[NTJ]

Achievement is the end result - "I've put a lot of effort into this, but I've achieved a shit result."

 

[own8ge]

I (an INFJ) think. That if some1 has put a lot of effort into something but the result is bad, then it is likely that he is not worthy of that task. If I do think the person has the capability for the task (Which I often think), then I will help the person to prevent this in future tasks, that at least is if the person indeed wants my help.

I would probably dig out why the result failed and come up with a solution (even if that solution would be for the person to find another job or something, I'm real sincere thus a jerk in these situations but only for the benefit of the other persona).

 

[SpaceYeti]

I'm asking about your personal opinion about effort of the others. I.e. do you care that someone put 20 hours into a project and then he accidentally ruined it? Or gave his best effort and the result was shit. What is YOUR PERSONAL opinion about this, do you care?

I might feel sorry about it, especially the more I care about the person in particular, but that's about it.

 

[NTJ]

I might feel sorry about it, especially the more I care about the person in particular, but that's about it.

Would you still have a negative attitude towards his failure?

 

[TheScornedReflex]

I think effort matters, yes. The more effort I put into something the better the result. What do you mean by effort? Is it generalized? Such as time and research. Or putting point A to point B sort of effort that, to me, isn't really effort at all.

 

[NTJ]

I have absolutely no idea how you could have misinterpreted my post as self-worth evaluation.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Yes

 

[SpaceYeti]

Would you still have a negative attitude towards his failure?

That depends entirely on the nature of the failure. If he exploded my house, yes, absolutely. If he colored outside the lines, no way.

 

[NTJ]

Hypothetical: If he bought the wrong kind of disks and wasted your money, when you specifically asked him to buy another kind, even wrote it on a piece of paper. His argument was "they were not available."

 

[SpaceYeti]

I'd simply tell him he shouldn't have gotten anything, the disks he bought are his, and he still owes me my disks or the money for them, and leave it at that. No hard feelings.

 

[NTJ]

What if he's one of those hard-ass guys who's got lots of muscle and refuses to give the money back nor agrees that this is not what you asked of him?

 

[SpaceYeti]

... His muscles are irrelevant. If he's that stubborn and immature, why am I dealing with him in the first place?

If I somehow got in that situation, though, nothing changes. I'd tell him the same. So he's strong. Good for him. He still owes me. Is he going to get in a fist fight over it, or something? If he still refuses, then you can go to small claims court, tell your boss, or whomever may have authority in the area. It seems like a huge waste of time and effort, but if he's stupid enough to force that situation, that's on him.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

I have absolutely no idea how you could have misinterpreted my post as self-worth evaluation.

Ha! My bad I just went of the title.. Didn't read your first post.

In that case it depends on the situation. I hate people that say they tried their best when they obviously haven't. But if they have honestly tried their best and the end result is shit then, depends if I know/like them, i will probably laugh. Then try to help them.

 

[snafupants]

You know the situations where people say "I put a lot of effort in this?" Well do you care about their effort? What if they totally screw up with the result, but they've put a lot of effort into trying to do it and their intentions were good?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_libertarians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialist_libertarianism

 

[Words]

I hate people who put so much effort, as if they put so much trust on the old method, the old system. I find it really stupid and irrational. They don't get that there's always a better, much easier way of doing anything. They should divert from continuing the demanding activity to focusing on finding a better way. There should be a limit to how much effort one should exert, a limit that that tells them that they should stop and think...think of a better way.

Effort on finding out what system requires the least effort is the only type of effort that i approve.

 

[snafupants]

I hate people who put so much effort, as if they put so much trust on the old method, the old system. I find it really stupid and irrational. They don't get that there's always a better, much easier way of doing anything. They should divert from continuing the demanding activity to focusing on finding a better way. There should be a limit to how much effort one should exert, a limit that that tells them that they should stop and think...think of a better way.

Effort on finding out what system requires the least effort is the only type of effort that i approve.

A solid starting three words to any post haha.

 

[NTJ]

... His muscles are irrelevant. If he's that stubborn and immature, why am I dealing with him in the first place?

If I somehow got in that situation, though, nothing changes. I'd tell him the same. So he's strong. Good for him. He still owes me. Is he going to get in a fist fight over it, or something? If he still refuses, then you can go to small claims court, tell your boss, or whomever may have authority in the area. It seems like a huge waste of time and effort, but if he's stupid enough to force that situation, that's on him.

Couldn't prove it.

Ha! My bad I just went of the title.. Didn't read your first post.

In that case it depends on the situation. I hate people that say they tried their best when they obviously haven't. But if they have honestly tried their best and the end result is shit then, depends if I know/like them, i will probably laugh. Then try to help them.

A guy is telling you how sorry he is and that he's tried his best, your reaction is laughter?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_libertarians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialist_libertarianism

Don't post links in my threads, write what you wanna say yourself.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Couldn't prove it.

Oh well, still doing it. If he's gonna be a jackass, I'm gonna waste his time.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

A guy is telling you how sorry he is and that he's tried his best, your reaction is laughter.

If I dislike them, yes. If I like them, maybe.

 

[redbaron]

Insofar as effort leads to improvement it matters.

Making no effort at all causes stagnation. Putting effort towards wrong or ineffective things is a waste - there might be some improvement, there might not be.

Knowing what to put effort into matters more, in a general sense.

Unrelated: this NTJ character reminds me a lot of @intpz

 

[snafupants]

"Does effort matters?" - Well, spelling or grammar certainly doesn't...

 

[Grayman]

You know the situations where people say "I put a lot of effort in this?" Well do you care about their effort? What if they totally screw up with the result, but they've put a lot of effort into trying to do it and their intentions were good?

I do not care if they put a lot of effort in it nor do I care for their results. They did what they did and they chose to do it why does that matter?

 

[Grayman]

After reading more of the posts I would like to state that I would not ask for help unless I already expected them to do a poor job of it. I'll do it myself and if I need their help it is not their responsibility to do a good job nor is it their responsibility to give me any more effort than they choose to give. My only request is that they are honest about how much effort they plan to put into something and then it is up to me to determine the kind of results I would get from those efforts and to compensate for it.

I am not entitled to their effort or their results, only their honesty if they want respect back in turn.

 

[walfin]

Effort is a good excuse for failure.

 

[SpaceYeti]

^ So is your mom!

 

[Solitaire U.]

^ So is your mom!

Oooh, I see someone's making an effort!

 

[snafupants]

Effort? Hang on...I know this one! Effort...effort...fuck it.

 

[SLushhYYY]

In a world governed by uncertainty, effort is the only catalyst by which a person may make something certain.

 

[Reluctantly]

My only concern is whether or not they can admit they screwed up and show the capacity to learn and then correct a mistake because making mistakes can be about learning. Sometimes this means deferring authority and learning from others who know better, but it can also just mean researching the events surrounding a mistake and stopping it from happening again.

Now what sucks is when someone believes they are learning and correcting their mishaps, but are actually being stubborn about admitting or seeing the ignorance behind their mistakes and not really dealing with the issue before them. Then everything is all fucked up because the leadership isn't learning from their mistakes, but believes they are and they will try and, sometimes successfully, persuade the unaware and uninformed that they have competence to lead. Ugh.

 

[NTJ]

Oh well, still doing it. If he's gonna be a jackass, I'm gonna waste his time.

And your money for the lawyer.

Insofar as effort leads to improvement it matters.

Making no effort at all causes stagnation. Putting effort towards wrong or ineffective things is a waste - there might be some improvement, there might not be.

Knowing what to put effort into matters more, in a general sense.

Unrelated: this NTJ character reminds me a lot of @intpz

I've just been called INTJ trice, why do you think I'm an INTP?

"Does effort matters?" - Well, spelling or grammar certainly doesn't...

Not mother tongue.

I do not care if they put a lot of effort in it nor do I care for their results. They did what they did and they chose to do it why does that matter?

Because it costed you $10000 and your wife left you.

 

[redbaron]

I've just been called INTJ trice, why do you think I'm an INTP?

@intpz was a member here who was banned.

He made a lot of trivial threads, often sought answers to inane questions and was terrible at elucidating on points that he was trying to make.

I do wonder if you're indeed the same person actually.

 

[NTJ]

@intpz was a member here who was banned.

He made a lot of trivial threads, often sought answers to inane questions and was terrible at elucidating on points that he was trying to make.

I do wonder if you're indeed the same person actually.

My threads contain philosophical questions, I don't know how you can see them as stupid, INTPs seem to like philosophy. Nonetheless, they received a lot of attention.

 

[snafupants]

Someone's sincere effort matters to me. Does it matter objectively? Maybe, depending on the mover and shaker's future plans, success rate, future plans based on success rate, impact on other's lives, cost of failure versus benefit of victory, and these types of things.

 

[Grayman]

Because it costed you $10000 and your wife left you.

How did I make a mistake like that?

 

[Grayman]

@intpz was a member here who was banned.

He made a lot of trivial threads, often sought answers to inane questions and was terrible at elucidating on points that he was trying to make.

I do wonder if you're indeed the same person actually.

Why don't you just give him your 'constructive' criticism if you feel he is need of it?

Why are you even here if you do not like the threads he creates?

Introspection: I really like criticism, but I really hate being told something about me or what I did is wrong when it so generic as to be of no use in determining how I may be better.

In other words, criticism is good if you elaborate on the problem and give a solution, otherwise your words are a waste of breath and do no good. A thing to remember.

 

[SpaceYeti]

And your money for the lawyer.

If I hire one, sure. I wouldn't hire a lawyer for small claims court, though.

 

[NTJ]

@Grayman

Apparently he thinks my posts are inane. I do not know why he opens them as well.

 

[NTJ]

If I hire one, sure. I wouldn't hire a lawyer for small claims court, though.

How can you go to court without a lawyer? Is that in the US?

 

[SpaceYeti]

How can you go to court without a lawyer? Is that in the US?

Yes. You can represent yourself in any case, if you want to. A lawyer is almost by definition not worth hiring in small claims cases.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Not mother tongue.

What is your mother tongue? Just curious.

 

[ArmaAeternitatis]

i have a friend who is a hard worker, but in an annoyingly lazy way. He'll knowingly throw large amounts of hard work into a project without planning, as if he's just trying to conjure up a solution with effort alone. He gets very frustrated when someone points out his lack of planning and will retort that he doesn't care if he is going in circles, so long as he's working hard, it's satisfactory.
if i had to guess, i would say that this mentality was caused by his parents rewarding a good work ethic, without emphasis on the results.