Seducer vs RE teacher

[Seducer of the Homeless]

i added this little note to the end of my mock RE test - i find it appropriate in the face of her disgustingly blatant indoctrination....

"you can set your cute little tests and we will all obey your views, but what are you REALLY testing. our religious UNDERSTANDING or how much we BELIEVE and AGREE with what you are saying. we shall see. but what if we all fail, we all retort with sarcasm and arrogance? what will you do? SEND US OFF TO CONCENTRATION CAMPS UNTIL WE CONFORM WITH YOUR VIEWS AND BELIEFS!!! then we will see who the real Nazis are!
tell me, have you yourself been BRAINWASHED or do you just ENJOY THE CONTROL. because either way...
before you assume me criminal, reach for the Detention Slips and the Telephone, THINK about who is the REAL SINNER, think about who is the REAL LIAR

and don't think me, Rob (my more direct, more racist friend - but he dosen't craft mass insults like i do (he just dosen't bother) - i get better marks for more offensive and controversial comments ) and anyone else (BNP etc) who dosen't share your view as STUPID, you may have most of the class convinced, but i am sure most of the class don't even know what the word 'INDOCTRINATION' MEANS, let alone IDENTIFY it - BUT I CAN!"

addressed to my arse-hole RE teacher

round 1 to Seducer


(i am not a bad person - but i have strong identity, i stand up for my beliefs and refuse to be led. this is addressed after a whole year of indoctrination, don't call me a brute. this is false confidence in myself and my delivery. i mean, i am the only person in school who sticks to my own beliefs - the most brave? probably not. the most stupid? very possibly)

feel free to tear me apart, call me pathetic, call me horrible, call me stupid - i have heard it before - but i consider this my victory over her.

(also, i have tested if they want understanding or me to actually agree with what she says - if it is understanding i have scammed her of an A. and if it really is how much we conform - i have revealed the true ugliness of the lesson. either way - I WIN )

 

[walfin]

What's RE? Religious Education?

If she's anything like the teachers I had she'll laugh it off, not bother with detentions or whatever since they entail more admin work, and continue to collect her paycheque.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

RE = Religious Education

 

[Sugarpop]

I remember when I had RE. It wasn't actually called RE, but something along the lines of Christianity, Religion and Philosophy. I'd guess that there was about 80% Christianity and ~20% Religion.

I recently found a notebook from elementary school. Notes I'd taken during lessons were in the spirit of 'Then Jesus did...', 'The hindus believe...', 'we believe...' etc. Our education about Islam was limited to some trivia about them believing in a god called Allah and having to go to Mecca every now and then to touch a big black rock. In first grade, we had to sing a christian psalm before lunch, and on the last day or so before christmas until year 8, we had to go to church.

I know how RE tends to be dumbing down ethical and religious issues at your level. Your rant seems rather feeble, though. How do the nazis enter into it?

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

trust me, the bigotry in that classroom is amazing, if we don't agree she basically ignores our viewpoints. she only ever tells us what she wants us to believe, i asked for her to tell us both sides of an argument and she says "no"...

...but as i say, i am a bit pathetic...

nazis - recently we had a lesson on the BNP - exaggerating their policies, so i told her she was exaggerating and that she HAS to show us both sides of the argument, she refuses (pure indoctrination)....thus nazism (she called us Nazis, so that is why i said "we shall see who the real nazi is" - implying her)
i suppose most of the statements (in the rant) are specific to a certain lesson, lie or exaggeration (Nazis, BNP etc it was addressed directly at the teacher)


think of this rant as me Kicking the teacher where it hurts

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

i
and don't think me, Rob (my more direct, more racist friend - but he dosen't craft mass insults like i do (he just dosen't bother) - i get better marks for more offensive and controversial comments ) and anyone else (BNP etc) who dosen't share your view as STUPID, you may have most of the class convinced, but i am sure most of the class don't even know what the word 'INDOCTRINATION' MEANS, let alone IDENTIFY it - BUT I CAN!"

Are you saying that you're racist?

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

well, not really. i feel no reason to discriminate because of colour. i enjoy racist JOKES but don't advocate discrimintation. i am only hostile towards muslims if they immigrate then commit crimes or try and make Britain a muslim country, trying to inflict their views. when i say'offensive and controversial' i am saying that i point out the RE blatantly trying to brainwash us and actually QUESTION what is being said. i think writing 'offensive' notes to a teacher is not racism

i also find as i grow up i become less and less tolerant of discrimination (dunno why)

i am not racist - my friend is. he is ok.

 

[preilemus]

huh. i dont think i would be able to do that. most of my victories are private ones :/

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

i feel strongly about being lied to, without mercy


i get carried away, i think (no, i am sure) i have done things like these before, BUT I NEED TO STAND FOR MY BELIEF AND IDENTITY, CAN NONE OF YOU - CAN ANYBODY UNDERSTAND THIS?!?!??!?!

god, maybe i am INFP

 

[Toad]

Wait, why do you have a RE teacher? Do you go to a Christian school? If that is the case, then I think you are way out of line. If you go to a public school, then I am shocked and appalled that they have a religion class.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

we HAVE to do it - Government says so.

we need to 'understand' and 'tolerate' the immigrants

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I think religious education is valid in public schools if it is taught objectively. Like it or not, religion and religious history are a HUGE part of our world and culture. I went to Catholic schools where I was taught world religions as well as Catholicism and if you don't know the religious basis for literature, art, government actions throughout history, your education is seriously lacking.

 

[motrhead]

i feel strongly about being lied to, without mercy


i get carried away, i think (no, i am sure) i have done things like these before, BUT I NEED TO STAND FOR MY BELIEF AND IDENTITY, CAN NONE OF YOU - CAN ANYBODY UNDERSTAND THIS?!?!??!?!

god, maybe i am INFP

I can completely identify with this. I don't know your school setting, but I have no use for narrow-minded dogmatic teachers. Independent thinking should be encouraged and rewarded, not ignored or punished. Of course resisting may be futile, and may eliminate your chances of getting good marks, but you should be true to yourself. I have done something similar in the past.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

My problem with standing for my belief and identity is that it is so stinking inconstant. But I cannot deal with people teaching their own beliefs as gospel. It drives me MAD.

 

[Toad]

WHAT THE FUCK!?!

Tell me what they are teaching you in that class. I am seriously fucking pissed off right now. Religion has NO PLACE in education!

I feel like shit kicking those dumb ass PTA muther fuckers. Where the hell do you live? Missouri? Mississippi?

edit: I just hate religion so much.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

King of Crabs: thank you!

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

He lives in England, Crab. And what do you think of what I had to say? You can't ignore the fact that religion exists.

 

[Toad]

Oh sorry Brain, I was so outraged with the OP that I didn't even bother reading anyone elses post. I'll go through them after I have breakfast

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Yes, please regulate your blood sugar levels first.

 

[Kidege]

I understand the anger.

You might want to check the argumentation.

 

[saffyangelis]

Crab, It's compulsory in England to do RE (We call it RS - Religious Studies) at our school, so I've ended up having to do half a GCSE in it, but I have a decent teacher, she's ISFP and she does tell us both sides of the argument, and she lets us all sidetrack the entire lesson and pretty much just mess around though we do learn quite a bit 'cos she gets us all to argue,and she's the Drama teacher too, so she mixes that in, by getting us to play games etc. and one of us is on one side of an argument and the other one's on the other. She's one of the best teachers in the school =)

But I have to say, Sed has guts =P If I did that, I'd probably end up with a detention, and my mum'd hear about it (She's friends with quite a few of the teachers at my school *headdesk) and then I'd be dead meat, computer bans etc.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

But I have to say, Sed has guts =P If I did that, I'd probably end up with a detention, and my mum'd hear about it (She's friends with quite a few of the teachers at my school *headdesk) and then I'd be dead meat, computer bans etc.

i might end up with a detention (i did a similar thing to this once - got detention. but i was younger, stupider and less justified that time), my mum agrees with me BUT would be angry that i was actually saying it (probably not guts, stupid- blinded by personal belief)

...and i already have a computer ban...so...

(come to think of it i have always, even in primary, stood up for my views even if everyone else disagreed or was blinded - i have strong character as much as i have stupidity - it is stupid to actually write an offensive note to a teacher after filling her test with sarcasm.)

also, if she gives me a detention she has done what i said she would and will prove my point that she is bigoted and scared of counter argument. (so in a way Win-Win)

 

[walfin]

...and i already have a computer ban...so...

Computer bans for things like this???

Well if she really does give you a detention you just have to ask her "What would Jesus do?"

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

i actually said that once... honest

computer bans - my mother has Parental Controls on because i am not being social enough

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I have to say I approve of the intent at least if not the composition so much, but I don't know what was said or done in this class. Brain is right in that religion should be taught as part of history/socilogy classes. It's important to know because of the past and present (hopefully limited in the future) impact religion has had on all of humanity. It's got to be taught from a point of view relating it's impact, not the supposed veracity of one form or another. If I ever had to take such a class and it was dogmatic, I would have walked out of the class regardless of grade or consequence. I had a stubborn streak in my youth that made old mules say "Damn!".

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

basically...

lesson starts - she makes points for her side of the argument - she calls other argument against her view Stupid (or dosen't mention them) - i say "can we hear the other side of the argument now" - she says "no" - the rest of the class shouts abuse at me for disagreeing with what the teacher has just brain-washed them into believing - then teacher tells us what Jesus would do - i leave, pissed off and generally hurt with comments of "jonny (my name), you bastard, why can't you just shut up, loser" from class'mates'

an RE lesson in brief

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

That's when you look at your classmates and flash them the big proud bird (that's the middle finger in US speak, not a female as in UK speak)

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

That's when you look at your classmates and flash them the big proud bird (that's the middle finger in US speak, not a female as in UK speak)

LOL

sorry

oh, i do. (they still hurt me) i offend them verbally (insults they usually don't understand) or psychology (and out loud) analyse them (in their ears) as the narcissists that they are...
basically mock their feeble minds

my need stand up for my views is stronger than my self-conscious inhibitions (inhibitions themselves that are strong)

trust me, if i ever sound confident or strongly offensive i will either be acting or will feel horrifically bad about it later...


i am soft as hell - everybody remember this if i offend you ever

 

[Toad]

I went to an all boys military CHRISTIAN boarding school. I also grew up in a Catholic church. I KNOW BRAINWASHING WHEN I SEE IT.

That being said, after I graduated high school, I began reading and learning about other religions ON MY OWN FREE TIME. Teaching it in a classroom is just wrong, IMO. Just because the majority of youth are easily influenced. There is also no way that a teacher can be 100% biased unless they were atheist (I'm not sure even if they are atheist that they wouldn't be just a little).

Yes, Brain I do believe religion is part of history and should be learned...IN HISTORY CLASS. Don't devote a whole fucking class to it. High School is the time to learn the basic fundamentals. Reading, writing, math, science, and social studies. I can understand if it was a university that offered the class, but not high school.

Ok now this is my own personal belief so don't anybody get offended. The MAIN reason a human being should study religion is so that they can understand it's uselessness and become an atheist. (I know I'm going to get a lot of shit from saying that, but I like to stir up trouble )

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

i am soft as hell - everybody remember this if i offend you ever

So what you are saying is this is basically you?

 

[Sugarpop]

Wait, why do you have a RE teacher? Do you go to a Christian school? If that is the case, then I think you are way out of line. If you go to a public school, then I am shocked and appalled that they have a religion class.

RE, atleast as it is taught in Norway, is about world-views in general. Discussing gay rights, creating awareness about different religions etc. The problem is that the subject is pretty open-ended, which means that teachers are able to project their own opinions on the students if they wish.

It's a good thing to combat the ignorance many stundents have about other views, but it should not be done by substituting it with new ignorance.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

i am Agnostic...

in that i don't know if i believe in 'things beyond' or not

(i will join an established religion, maybe someday the occult or the afterlife)

i am actually TRYING to make myself believe in fairies - just to eliminate previous prejudices
i am...erm...removing any blocks and trying to rethink preconceived notions. we are told that fairies don't exist throughout life, that maybe we unintentionally close our selves off, accidentally brainwashing?

i am not sure, i just need to rethink without logical barriers and discover what I believe

probably an impossible task

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

So what you are saying is this is basically you?

major LOL

 

[Ermine]

Seducer, if I was in your position, I wouldn't have written that letter, especially when it was going along with along with a test with a bunch of sarcastic answers. It would come off as nothing but you being a smart aleck, giving no reason for your teacher to give a second thought. All it did is put you on her bad side if you weren't already. I'm sorry, but that demonstration of bravery and discontent had just as little substance as your avatar, due to the overall attitude, context, and the weakness of your argument. That being said, I totally understand why you feel this way, but your argument was kind of incoherent. And might I mention that Nazism is the last thing you want to bring into the picture when you want an effective argument?

Here's a possible way you could have done this differently, especially if you know there are other people in your class that hate the class for similar reasons. I think it would be much more effective to, at a good opportunity, calmly and rationally state why you don't like her teaching methods, and give her a vision of what you'd want the class to be like. In the process, try to garner some support from classmates and if she doesn't consider your argument (ignores it or says you're wrong right off the bat) walk out of the class. At the very least, she will know you're serious, and are intelligent enough to go beyond saying "I hate you" and tell her what could improve. It would also give her more accountability.

 

[Jordan~]

In any of my RE classes, there were 14-15 atheists and 1-2 Christians. In Philosophy this year, there was no one who believed in a god. Even though one RE teacher is a priest, we've never had a problem with indoctrination. I suppose it depends on the quality of your school. We do "have" to go to religious assemblies - a hymn and a prayer, and often a Bible reading. The new Rector, however, usually takes a secular message from a Biblical passage. Having been elected to prefecture, I'm going to see what I can do about those assemblies next year...

Incidentally, the head of RE renamed the subject P&R (Philosophy and Religion), since RMPS (Religion, Morality, Philosophy and Sociology) was not popular due to the prominent position of the R.

 

[Oblivious]

I would have written a letter in the same spirit, but it would not be to the teacher, it would be to the newspapers. It would be in much more polite and politically correct terms but leave no doubt as to my fury.

I would also be recording the proceedings of her class to try and siphon off the most damaging statement that would have been made. This is perfectly legitimate in my opinion as it is being said in a public classroom and whatever teachers are telling our children should for no reason be shielded from public scrutiny.

Political and religious indoctrination is not something only Seducer thinks is wrong. It is wrong period. If you truly believe she is a danger to the minds she by duty has to build, work through the system and get her removed. This is not about personal anger; it is about public justice.

If something is terribly wrong and only you can see it, it is your duty to right it Seducer.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

While I appreciate the anger and the sentiment of what you thought you were doing, Seducer... I don't think your letter was a particularly admirable act...

There are usually two very good questions to ask about this sort of thing:

What did you gain?
And what did it cost you?

I'm thinking when you start crunching the numbers on this situation, you're going to have lost a lot of social standing, lost some intellectual credibility (for having argued it the way you did), and lost the ground you need for traction when making this argument against her and the system... It really depends on how far word spreads around.

I hope the returns don't amount to enough to make you regret it.
​

 

[eudemonia]

Seducer, I sympathise, I really do I also admire you.

I'm not sure what impact your letter will have because I have no idea about your teacher. There are some wise words here (I liked what Ermine and Sapphire Harp said) but I am going to take a different line (probably more irresponsible so it comes with a health warning).

You remind me of my daughter a bit - although she would probably have put forward a more 'intellectualised' argument. But what I detected in your note was pure, unadulterated fury. Fury at not being taken seriously, of not being listened to, of being patronised and 'controlled' by this teacher. Istm, that you had to let this out - probably before it got any more intense. I respect this and admire it. You are putting your boundaries down and letting her know that she is not controlling your mind. For an INTP this is sacred territory. This is the one area in which our sense of identity grows and flourishes - if people attempt to invade this they are invading our very souls (sorry for the religious language ). How dare she do this A young mind is the most precious of all things and she is attempting to suffocate it with her brittle religion. Anyone who had a faith to speak of would invite you back for a coffee and a chat and engage with you about this. You CARE! Alleluia! A young person who cares about their education and their opinions - a young person who thinks!

I made a comment on another thread about a friends son who attends Winchester (£25,000 pa). In conversation with him the other day it was clear that he wasn't being taught to think either. Just being groomed for elitedom

You'll get punished. But wear your punishment as a badge of honour. You have done something very special. Next time make sure you get it all out before you are in such a state and construct a more intellectual argument (you could refer to Dawkins or Hitchens for example). Bamboozle her with your knowledge, reading and intellect.

She sounds a very defensive and very unhappy person btw. Don't overestimate how in control she really is - she sounds scared and depressed.

I also sympathise with your points about living in an area where you feel your sense of identity is challenged by being surrounded by so many Asian immigrants. The other side of the anti-racist argument is hard to present nowadays with so much political correctness. What this means is that the sense of alienation, fear, anger and loneliness simply gets channelled into racist parties such as the BNP. If you have an experience or an argument here Seducer don't be afraid to articulate it - but do so calmly and intelligently. There is a lot of literature in social psychology you might be interested in. Be careful of your allies - don't get into bed with parties or people who rely on ignorance and hate. But don't let political correctness silence your voice either. Don't let emotional and hysterical arguments about racism stop you from exploring what you truly believe.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

what did i gain? well, she pissed me off. i am not very intelligent (even stupider when i am pissed off). as far as 'intellectual merit' goes, even if i was 'intellectual' it wouldn't be appreciated. in class discussions my views are rejected by the class as 'too smart, too many long words' and i receive verbal abuse for this. for months i have been casually pointing out that she is ignoring or calling stupid the other side of her 'arguments' and in that classroom I am made to feel like a Nazi, just for playing Devil's Advocate and getting the other side heard. i actually care about issues, ethics and philosophy, so when she blatantly tries to control what we believe and only tells HER opinion (i want a PROPER discussion, not brainwashed idiots telling me I'M the unreasonable one) and then she tells us what Jesus would do. it pisses me off ok. i hade tried casually pointing out her mistakes and she spat this my face by scoffing, giggling to herself and saying "NO" when we were 'arguing' racism and (after half an hour of indoctrination) and i ask "can we hear the other side of the argument. i am only returning the respect she returns me.

what did cost me? respect. i lost EVEN more respect from thirty brainwashed cretins, i lost some respect on this forum. mainly i lost my respect for MYSELF (already a dwindled weed is my self-respect and content). i get carried away. probably lost an afternoon to detention. i lost other things too. (but i am willing to lose things just as long as i stand up to it, however stupidly )

and, there is only ONE other person that realises but he is just lazy, he dosen't stand up to the teacher really, he does a bit but...i pretty much stand alone (and everyone else despises me) so i am fighting a losing battle.

i said in the OP somewhere that you will all call me and the argument stupid and lose respect, because i feel these things myself. it WAS stupid, it WAS innappropriate, i HAVE lost merit
i am an idiot *facepalm*

(edit: VERY informative eudemonia thanks for the contribution to the issue (although i feel undeserving of the compliment))

(and when i say 'sarcastic' answers, i mean like "why every good, venerable christian boy knows that...(then show religious understanding)...., i usually retort with intellectual opinions - but the lack of respect paid (they are even ATTACKED sometimes) by teacher and students has driven me to this brutal offensive note. sorry.)

 

[snowqueen]

Thanks to Nia for saving me from writing because I agree 100% with what she says. You will be interested to know Sed that my parents were called in to discuss two ;incidents' when I was at primary school. In kindergarten we had 'prayers' at the beginning of the day and at the end the teacher said 'remember everyone should keep their eyes closed during prayers and that includes you, snowqueen' and I said 'how did you know I had my eyes open?'. The second occurred in RE a couple of years later when I corrected the teacher by saying 'Jesus Christ wasn't the son of god, he was just a prophet like Muhammed'.

I have fought for the right to think for myself all through school - but the others are right - learn how to make strong arguments - unfortunately this will only serve to make you even more frustrated when talking to idiots like your teacher, but it will gain you respect from other thinkers! For a 15 year old, what you do is really impressive - I look forward to when you are 25 - then you will be formidable opponent in a debate!

Re the INFP/INTP thing - I think being a teenager churns up your feelings a lot so it is possible that you are an INTP who is experiencing emotional development but it's very uncomfortable - I was like that as a teen but then it settled back down. INFPs get angry when values are breached while INTPs get angry when principles get breached. So if you are angry because she won't allow the other side of the argument rather than because you feel her views are unethical or something, then you are probably an INTP.

btw - my daughter (the one who wrote to you) is constantly in detention for speaking up against teachers and I am so proud of her because it is always justified even if the teachers don't see it that way. Half of her teachers think she's amazing and the other half want her to shut up lol. Obviously I tell her to stay out of trouble if she can, but I won't force her to respect people who don't deserve it.

A piece of advice - step back from your anger because it weakens your position. Someone at work once said to me 'you always have something really insightful to say, but sometimes the way you say it makes it hard for people to hear it' (I tend to argue very passionately). I tried it and found it really really works. So next time, take a deep breath, count to 10 and think about what you want to say, and say it in a calm, slow voice.

 

[eudemonia]

Right, we're on a roll now Snowqueen

what did i gain? well, she pissed me off. i am not very intelligent (even stupider when i am pissed off). as far as 'intellectual merit' goes, even if i was 'intellectual' it wouldn't be appreciated. in class discussions my views are rejected by the class as 'too smart, too many long words' and i receive verbal abuse for this. for months i have been casually pointing out that she is ignoring or calling stupid the other side of her 'arguments' and in that classroom I am made to feel like a Nazi, just for playing Devil's Advocate and getting the other side heard. i actually care about issues, ethics and philosophy,

Right, this says to me that you are clearly more intelligent than many of your peers. The fact that you are interested in philosophy and ethics, the fact that you use long words clearly shows you are more intelligent than the norm including your teachers. This causes jealousy, fear and misunderstanding so you are probably suffering from group dynamics in some respect - an alliance between the group and the teacher to control you, rob you of your self-respect and your voice.


Don't let them win. Don't spend the rest of your life recovering from their bullying and mediocrity. What you must understand is that they are unimportant to you. You will probably have at least another 60 years of life on this planet The two years you spend with them is a blip. They will go on their own journeys which are nothing to do with you. But they, for complex psychological reasons want to bring you down into line. You are threatening them . Tall poppy syndrome - the mediocre, conformist majority cannot bear it when a poppy grows above the rest of the field.

What are they to you? Nothing. Let them go. Do not let them invade your head or steal your energy. Every time you think about them you lose the opportunity to think about something important.

Do you have a vision for the next few years? Where do you want to go? What do you want to do? What do you need to do to get there? These are the things that should be occupying your mind.

I do speak from experience. I went to a crappy comprehensive school and spent 5 years surviving. The only thing that sustained me was my determination to leave all of them and that whole life behind.

Have you thought about taking up meditation? Look at Zen. It helps you to let go of things you cannot control (which ultimately is everything) and focus your mind.

what did cost me? respect. i lost EVEN more respect from thirty brainwashed cretins, i lost some respect on this forum. mainly i lost my respect for MYSELF (already a dwindled weed is my self-respect and content). i get carried away. probably lost an afternoon to detention. i lost other things too. (but i am willing to lose things just as long as i stand up to it, however stupidly )

I can guarantee you did not lose any respect from anyone on this forum. Ahem.....I will speak for the others but I'll put money on it

If you lost more respect from your peers what is that to you? Do you agree with their opinions? Do you value them? Would you like to have their respect on their terms? What would you have to do to get it? Are you prepared to do this? Why do you let their opinions of you, influence your opinion of you? (I know it is difficult not to, but you have got to FIGHT!).

I'm sorry Seducer but this is important. I have even changed my opinion of your act. I actually think it is the first manifestation of you fighting back. So how you make sense of this is important. What you gained is this:

but i am willing to lose things just as long as i stand up to it, however stupidly

You have tasted what it feels like to stand up to the crowd. Liberating isn't it? Its what INTPs do best, btw. It was a brave and necessary act. It was YOU coming out and refusing to be brow beaten. And you did this in total isolation - that was a very brave thing to do. Forget about all the intellectualisation - this was pure emotional courage.

Now you need to find a worthy goal to which to attach your courage. Going to the best university you can get to?

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I went to an all boys military CHRISTIAN boarding school. I also grew up in a Catholic church. I KNOW BRAINWASHING WHEN I SEE IT.

Yes, Brain I do believe religion is part of history and should be learned...IN HISTORY CLASS. Don't devote a whole fucking class to it. High School is the time to learn the basic fundamentals. Reading, writing, math, science, and social studies. I can understand if it was a university that offered the class, but not high school.

I agree. History class is the place in a state-funded school.

Something else... I see a fair amount of Catholic bashing in this forum and I want to do a bit of defending... I went to Catholic schools for thirteen years, was raised by two very Catholic parents, and by both of these groups I was taught not only to view things objectively, but to also think for myself and reach my own conclusions. In my classes, we were encouraged to present counter arguments to Church teachings- the idea being, if it is not a defensible position, it is not a position worth having. Scholarship is of utmost importance in the Catholic Church- that's why there are so many well-respected Catholic prep schools and universities, and why so many non-Catholics attend them. If I disagreed with my teachers (which I often did), I never felt forced to agree... although it was mandatory to attend in-school mass... which I typically spent in the dark room...

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

Do you have a vision for the next few years? Where do you want to go? What do you want to do? What do you need to do to get there? These are the things that should be occupying your mind.

I do speak from experience. I went to a crappy comprehensive school and spent 5 years surviving. The only thing that sustained me was my determination to leave all of them and that whole life behind.

Have you thought about taking up meditation? Look at Zen. It helps you to let go of things you cannot control (which ultimately is everything) and focus your mind.


You have tasted what it feels like to stand up to the crowd. Liberating isn't it? Its what INTPs do best, btw. It was a brave and necessary act. It was YOU coming out and refusing to be brow beaten. And you did this in total isolation - that was a very brave thing to do. Forget about all the intellectualisation - this was pure emotional courage.

Now you need to find a worthy goal to which to attach your courage. Going to the best university you can get to?

what i want to do? be an artist, a composer - generally create (primarily through music). challenging, new, different music. emotional music, aggressive music, individual music, outworldly music. creation. Stravinsky, Zappa...
i don't know how to get there, it is difficult and i know nobody who shares these visions (yet) and i am in a non-existent place, no opportunities. maybe i am being negative but my dreams seem impossible. i feel the only way i will be even content is to create music for life, i don't need riches or fame - maybe respect from musical circles but no mainstream ambition (although if i did reach mainstream i would be proud - for doing my own thing and many people enjoying it. and if i was then mainstream i would completely try and CHANGE or at least destroy it )
i would live alone in a log cabin eating only bread and water to live as a creator for a life. i suppose this is weird.
(i also have visions of suicide and tragedy, homelessness and deep depression - yikes )

i actually recently have considered meditation, done some research etc... i suppose it is recommended. i will try it, probably. i need it, or at least could use it.

yup, alone. as i say, i have reduced all friendships down to one, who dosen't stand against just feels against. nobody really understands the importance of identity, nobody even wants it. not really daring to do it alone, i am used to it as i am sure you all are, i know most people do these things in groups - they probably get somewhere.

university - i don't know. school and the concept of their systems is tearing me apart, my grades and effort in school are slipping. i used to be all A's but now i sometimes even get E grades i just...can't handle school, can't do it. the work isn't too difficult but even the thought of schoolwork just scares me, anxiety i suppose. i have never considered university, don't know if i want to go. should i?

anyway...

 

[Ermine]

university - i don't know. school and the concept of their systems is tearing me apart, my grades and effort in school are slipping. i used to be all A's but now i sometimes even get E grades i just...can't handle school, can't do it. the work isn't too difficult but even the thought of schoolwork just scares me, anxiety i suppose. i have never considered university, don't know if i want to go. should i?

I've found that it's useful to play the system, even if you don't like it. I pretty much always had my way with teachers and could do what I wanted mainly because of my mostly As reputation. And my teachers listened to and respected me. It's drudgery, but there are great benefits. And if you know the schoolwork isn't difficult, why get worked up over it? If it's easy, you can do it well. Enough said. And I suggest you go to university. It will give you great resources and possible mentors, and at the very least, you get a piece of paper that counts as credentials in a certain field so you can get a job you remotely enjoy, if the hypothetical band doesn't work out immediately.

 

[eudemonia]

Never considered the possibility of university What did you do....*palm to head* oh, just looked it up *facepalm*

University is the only time in your life when you are totally free. You are free to grow up, express your life and your values and all you have to do in return is a few essays. No brainer. Plus, you might learn something what would you rather do - stay at home, get a mundane job OR meet new people, get into a completely different environment and start to really learn to think for the first time? Of course it does depend on which uni you go to but....

You remind me of my first boyfriend wrt to the music. He loved Peter Hammil, Van der Graaf Generator, Marc Bolan, David Bowie plus a host of others who spanned the entire music spectrum. You're right - you need people. The only way in which you are going to meet people is at uni (or sixth form college) and/or by playing your music at gigs and producing demo tapes. If this is your love you need to develop it and find your unique expression of it. My boyfriend now has a small recording studio and is as eccentric as ever. However, if you produce a demo, I'll ask him to look at it for you and give you his advice.

Re school. My daughter would sympathise. How she survived it (she's off to sixth form college now) was by getting by with the minimum and then seriously cramming come the exams. Because you're clever you could easily do this. I think the secret is not to invest so much of your emotional energy in school, the teachers and the pupils. I know its easier said than done but if you develop your passion this will give you another focus for your energies. A much more positive one.

Re the suicidal thoughts - I can sympathise. I was similar at your age. Don't let them beat you. You have a wonderful life ahead of you. Even if only to say 'told you so!', make sure you achieve your dreams The secret is where you focus your attention - build up those dreams and visions. Once they become strong, you'll find a way - its called serendipity.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

(VdGG ftw!!!)

yeah, i have started playing school like a game. everything in school has become a jokey game (which i will win, i hope...lol) to scam school and mock it with As

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Damn! Nia is giving great advice and saying what ought be said.

Soth, I can't say your letter was wise on it's face but I believe it was for you, necessary. I don't think making the argument more intellectual was needed either. Not this time. Next time yeah maybe but as you said, it felt like a victory to you so don't let anyone spoil that victory. Take it, wear it, show it off to everyone who scorns you. In the 20+ years since I left high school, I've seen one former classmate. One. And that was an accidental meeting at a concert.

If you want to leave those dick stackers (oops, I mean wanker stackers. I forget sometimes your English) behind once you get out of high school and move on then you probably will be able to do that pretty easily. High school classmates and teachers seem like the world during those years but if you can learn to laugh off the psych scars they riddle you with, you will forget all about them and this time in your life. It only will have the lasting impact you let it imo.

Now soth, I don't want to drive you to suicide or anything but I'll be damned if you don't in many ways remind me of myself at that age. Don't worry though, it doesn't mean you are destined to turn out like me.

*shudder* <------ Was that you or me?

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

probably you lol

i didn't shudder, i like you

 

[eudemonia]

LOL IB.

I see you're getting on a bit too