Is it an insult to be called an INTJ?

[walfin]

You tell me, and why.

 

[Mello]

Yes, because INTPs are the best.

 

[Chronomar]

No, because that "insult" simply indicates that you have achieved (or degraded into?) a particular level of organization uncharactaristic of an INTP. This organization/determination will likely help you accomplish tasks.

Really, if I had to choose a type besides INTP to be, I would choose INTJ. I don't know what after that...

 

[Anthile]

In case that you really are INTP, it simply means that the other person has no clue about MBTI whatsoever.

 

[shoeless]

it's only an insult if it's used in an insulting manner, which is more of a reflection on the insult-er than the insult-ee.

 

[Melkor]

Uh, not if you're an INTJ.

I enjoy being an INTP, but I would much rather be an INTJ, seeing as they seem to have a way with completeing tasks rather than getting wrapped up in them.

 

[NeverAmI]

Uh, not if you're an INTJ.

I enjoy being an INTP, but I would much rather be an INTJ, seeing as they seem to have a way with completeing tasks rather than getting wrapped up in them.

I would rather you be an INTJ as well, so that you wouldn't have that INTP tendency to say exactly what is on someone else's mind, such as this instance!

 

[Melkor]

You're welcome sir.

I charge for such spiritual readings though, and you read the sign before you came in, so *do* cough up sir.

 

[NeverAmI]

You're welcome sir.

I charge for such spiritual readings though, and you read the sign before you came in, so *do* cough up sir.

All I have is a half eaten sandwich and a pamphlet for scientology, will that suffice?

 

[Melkor]

Uh....is the pamphlet edible, or at least, soft enough for toilet paper usage?

I daresay it might even be readable.
*laughs self silly*

Well okay, tell you what, I'll eat the pamphlet and read the sandwich.

Sounds good.

 

[Sparrow]

Oh yeah. Close minded, quick to jump to conclusions and a superiority complex are commonly associated with INTJ.

 

[BigApplePi]

You tell me, and why.

This is no time to be serious. So ----

The MBTI test has failed to be serious enough about J and P. Everyone surveys. And everyone is forced to choose sooner or later. But is it conscious or unconscious? INTPs have Ti-Ne-Si-Fe but no J or P is noted. There should be Pe for INTPs with Je as their shadow function if I have that right. Adymus?

INTPs are consciously and openly Ps. They share that stuff. But INTPs aren't good at deliberately choosing for themselves. That makes their Je unconscious. But J they do. Look. Every post here is a choice by the poster to make it.

If I'm right, I used my Ti, Ne or Fe or something to write this post, but I couldn't push the decision. So it's not a J post. I made it with a Ji function. Help Adymus. I tend to get these things backward and change my mind.

 

[BigApplePi]

Oh yeah. Close minded, quick to jump to conclusions and a superiority complex are commonly associated with INTJ.

If we are to make a decision, we must close off the other possibilities.
If a decision is required, making it now will allow for the next step.
If a decision is to be made, it is better to make a superior one over the alternative.

Good analysis Anamalech. Got any more?

 

[citrusbreath95]

It's not an insult as every personality has their pros and cons, while INTP's may lack in one area (perhaps leadership) INTJs are better, I prefer being INTP to INTJ as I view INTPs as more open minded, and not being so quick as to make a decision without all data. I really dislike it when people are judgemental, and jump to conclusions, and I think INTJs are more prone to this than INTPs. If someone called me this, I wouldn't be insulted from the personality, but merely because I would take it that they were calling me closed minded. Then I'd have to defend my INTPness!!!:smiley_emoticons_mr

 

[shoeless]

noooo no no no.

the J/P axis has to do with the orientation of your functions. if you're a J, you are more directive -- therefore, your primary thinking/feeling function is extraverted -- Fe or Te -- which is what you essentially use to direct people. if you're a P, it's the opposite -- adaptive -- and your primary thinking/feeling function is introverted.

which is why INTP = Ti Ne and INTJ = Ni Te. (the Ni comes first because, as an introvert, your introverted function is your first function.)

 

[Metsuki]

I simply hate having flaws, so I don't like neither

 

[NeverAmI]

Uh....is the pamphlet edible, or at least, soft enough for toilet paper usage?

I daresay it might even be readable.
*laughs self silly*

Well okay, tell you what, I'll eat the pamphlet and read the sandwich.

Sounds good.

The sandwich looked like it had an image of Elvis in the bread but I bit his head off. The pamphlet might be ok if you soak it in water and some salt, or put it in some stew.

Enjoy!

 

[Trebuchet]

The person I admire most in the world (my husband) is an INTJ. If someone thought I was like him, I would find it hard to be insulted. (The assertion would be wrong, but not insulting.)

 

[Kuu]

it's only an insult if it's used in an insulting manner, which is more of a reflection on the insult-er than the insult-ee.

Yes. How can one feel insulted by what somebody that evidently doesn't know you have to say about you, and which they are probably saying more out of ignorance rather than malice?

 

[Adymus]

This is no time to be serious. So ----

The MBTI test has failed to be serious enough about J and P. Everyone surveys. And everyone is forced to choose sooner or later. But is it conscious or unconscious? INTPs have Ti-Ne-Si-Fe but no J or P is noted. There should be Pe for INTPs with Je as their shadow function if I have that right. Adymus?

INTPs are consciously and openly Ps. They share that stuff. But INTPs aren't good at deliberately choosing for themselves. That makes their Je unconscious. But J they do. Look. Every post here is a choice by the poster to make it.

If I'm right, I used my Ti, Ne or Fe or something to write this post, but I couldn't push the decision. So it's not a J post. I made it with a Ji function. Help Adymus. I tend to get these things backward and change my mind.

Come on Pi, we already had this discussion in your thread on INTPs being sure of themselves.

The J or P is always implied based one which functions are your strongest for you. Te, Fe, Si, and Ni are all directive functions, which is why if one of these is your dominant and auxiliary, you are a J. Ne, Se, Fi, and Ti are all adaptive functions, so If one of these are your dominant and auxiliar, you are a P.

When we do just about any activity we are both Adapting and directing to some degree, and you will use both P and J functions. Let's take this post for example, you probably went straight to Ti and then Ne first, so at this point you were adapting to the new information given, but then when it came time to type of this post, you had to put structure into it, and actually direct where you are going this this. For that you had to reach over Si so you can retrieve from your bank of facts the details of the cognitive functions that you talk about, and then Fe so you can organism it all into articulation.

So the answer is, you were using both Directive and adaptive functions when writing this, however, because of the fact that your adaptive functions take precedence, the overall purpose of the post was to adapt and not to direct.

 

[shoeless]

... heh heh heh.

organism it.

heh.

 

[Adymus]

... heh heh heh.

organism it.

heh.

Ha, I'm going just leave like that.

 

[Fukyo]

wut

It's ridiculous to be insulted if someone suggests or implies you are another type.

Type is not a personal identity - or at least it shouldn't be one.

Inserting stereotypical thinking into typology, while somewhat expected is no favor because it only breeds a one dimensional, black and white view of it.

Oh yeah. Close minded, quick to jump to conclusions and a superiority complex are commonly associated with INTJ.

Of course you're going to run into some jerk who's going to call you an S eventually, just because he thinks you're a dumbass and wants to rustle your feathers on any given MBTI forum.

Be direct with your insults and don't bring typology into it, kay people.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I get mistaken for a variety of different types, commonly, INTJ, ISTP or ENTP. When analyzing myself objectively I am in most similarity to ENTP. I think I have too much bias when answer questions in a MBTI test.

 

[Polaris]

I second Shoeless.

Most of these free tests also allow little for grayzones, a problem I always encounter when doing these tests. Some of them are black and white, you only have two options and are therefore forced into one category when you may be balancing between both. Example questions:

1. You are almost never late for your appointments
   YES NO
2. You like to be engaged in an active and fast-paced job
   YES NO
3. You enjoy having a wide circle of acquaintances
   YES NO

These questions do not give you the options of a), b), c) or d). You are either a) or b).

For example, with regard to question three I don't know what they mean by a wide circle of acquaintances. It is too generalised. It depends on what kind of people they are. If that wide circle of acquaintances were people I would rather avoid, then no. If the same circle of acquaintances were people I find interesting, then yes.

I sometimes like a fast-paced job, and sometimes I like to do a job involving more quiet focus. I fall in between all of these above.

I usually come up INTJ, borderline INXX. I am usually 60-90% I, 100% N, 25-35% T, and pretty much 50/50 J/P, depending on which test I take.

This is also why it is better to look at the cognitive functions, and type oneself based on these. But even there I fall between dominant and shadow functions. The more I look at them, the more confused I get. .............hmmmm....is that P......?

 

[Sparrow]

Anything can be used as an insult if the intent is there. :smiley_emoticons_mr

 

[BigApplePi]

Come on Pi, we already had this discussion in your thread on INTPs being sure of themselves.

The J or P is always implied based one which functions are your strongest for you. Te, Fe, Si, and Ni are all directive functions, which is why if one of these is your dominant and auxiliary, you are a J. Ne, Se, Fi, and Ti are all adaptive functions, so If one of these are your dominant and auxiliar, you are a P.

When we do just about any activity we are both Adapting and directing to some degree, and you will use both P and J functions. Let's take this post for example, you probably went straight to Ti and then Ne first, so at this point you were adapting to the new information given, but then when it came time to type of this post, you had to put structure into it, and actually direct where you are going this this. For that you had to reach over Si so you can retrieve from your bank of facts the details of the cognitive functions that you talk about, and then Fe so you can organism it all into articulation.

So the answer is, you were using both Directive and adaptive functions when writing this, however, because of the fact that your adaptive functions take precedence, the overall purpose of the post was to adapt and not to direct.

Come on Adymus. I have the slight shortcoming of seeing ambiguities everywhere. I find it hard to listen to a person lecture because the instant they claim something uncertain, my mind goes off on a tangent and I lose what he says next. I would probably drive a quantum physicist crazy. Non INTPs have been known to either run from the room or take up arms against me.

That is a good interpretation of J and P, but that's not why I made that post. I see my own post was ambiguous in its purpose. I was looking for a technical Je/Ji/Pi/Pe supplement and wanted to know if that could be added for the sake of completeness. J and P are being given short shrift as functions. I want to know if Je/Ji/Pi/Pe can be used to describe functions if one is INTP, INTJ, Ixxx or Exxx or whatever. This would be new to personality documentation so some thought might have to be given.

Are you saying we cannot do this? If I starting with an INTP can I disregard those other 4 functions long enoughto look for a quintary function, the Pe vs Pi? Are not INTPs P extroverted because of their openness to others about the field or is that uncertain? Are they not J introverted because they are reluctant to put out decisions to others and will do so only privately? Or do you think typologists would prefer not to say and use the other four functions instead to derive P and J and exclude their introverted or extroverted nature?

Again. This may require some thought.

 

[Adymus]

I think I see what you are saying.

But including Pi/Ji/Pe/Je as if it were it's own standalone function is completely redundant and would just make things even more confusing. Again, all you have to do is look at a person's top two functions and you know right away whether they are using Pi/Ji/Pe/Je on their strong side.

They would be a good tool for simplifying how both Ti and Fi, Te and Fe, Ni and Si, and Ne and Se work, but other than that, it shouldn't actually be included when describing a person's functional hierarchy.

 

[BigApplePi]

I think I see what you are saying.

But including Pi/Ji/Pe/Je as if it were it's own standalone function is completely redundant and would just make things even more confusing. Again, all you have to do is look at a person's top two functions and you know right away whether they are using Pi/Ji/Pe/Je on their strong side.

They would be a good tool for simplifying how both Ti and Fi, Te and Fe, Ni and Si, and Ne and Se work, but other than that, it shouldn't actually be included when describing a person's functional hierarchy.

Okay Adymus perhaps I should take a back seat to this until or unless I ever get a handle on typology. I may be looking at the whole thing incorrectly because I'm pretty sure I don't have the foundations firmly in mind.

Having issued that disclaimer, more thoughts: Let's say the top two functions are Ti, Ne. Even allowing for redundancy, what is the Pi/Ji/Pe/Je? Is it Pi because of Ti, Pe because of Ne, Ji because of Ti or Je because of Ne? Do we know or is the choice uncertain?

"Functional hierarchy" you say. Yes if determinable by other functions. But if independent, then not in a hierarchy.

 

[ijustprotectedmyidentity]

intjs are to unemotional id rather be a bounce of the walls rationale

(entp)

 

[echoplex]

I don't think it's a insult to be called any type. Of course, opinions regarding type that are clearly wrong are a sign of ignorance of either a.) typology in general, or b.) your personality. I suppose one could argue that (a) may insult one's intelligence and (b) may be insulting because it may seem to be a sign that the 'accuser' hasn't really tried to get to know you.

But, in general, even someone who is intelligent, understands typology, and knows you well (as well as you can know someone, at least) can still incorrectly assert your type. Plus, you could just as easily blame yourself for not letting your 'true' personality show, rendering any assertions suspect unless the accuser has *really* good typing skills. Dabble a little too much in your tertiary and inferior and others are bound to type you as if those functions are your top ones, especially if they are well developed.

All that aside, I can't see how there's anything particularly 'wrong' with being an INTJ. Every type has its weaknesses and challenges. Certain situations may make an INTJ appear inferior. P-types may see J's in general in a negative light, but P's could be seen just as negatively. It's the human condition to have weaknesses and others who don't like you for various reasons. Every type's stereotype(s) is the target of someone's hate; you can't escape that no matter what type you are.

 

[BigApplePi]

You tell me, and why.

I'd say to an INTP who might be proud of being able to see the broad view it would be an insult. To an INTJ they might feel flattered if it meant that were able to take decisive actions. To an "E" they could be insulted if they took pride in their extroversion.

 

[Words]

you tell me, and why

To lessen might is much easier than to greaten it.

as much as I want to be an INTJ, I have no choice.

why?
For several personal reasons. one, I view the personality as having a more rational tendency than perceivers. To only absorb information when you have great goals mind, that you'd like to accomplish but cannot because of the on and off motivation of getting work done, is not very...smart. one point 5, It would be practically useful. two, IP= causes some sort of femininity? Defending your point stubbornly is more masculine. I prefer masculinity. Preference beautifies judging. three, its natural leadership traits. and several others.

I see J= lvl10 (overpowered). and P=lvl1 (newbie). one needs to level down, the other needs to level up. going down the ladder is easier.
---

Insult and other emotions are too external.

 

[BigApplePi]

To lessen might is much easier than to greaten it.

as much as I want to be an INTJ, I have no choice.

why?
For several personal reasons. one, I view the personality as having a more rational tendency than perceivers. To only absorb information when you have great goals mind, that you'd like to accomplish but cannot because of the on and off motivation of getting work done, is not very...smart. one point 5, It would be practically useful. two, IP= causes some sort of femininity? Defending your point stubbornly is more masculine. I prefer masculinity. Preference beautifies judging. three, its natural leadership traits. and several others.

I see J= lvl10 (overpowered). and P=lvl1 (newbie). one needs to level down, the other needs to level up. going down the ladder is easier.
---

Insult and other emotions are too external.

There is a reason though for the existence of Ps. Sometimes the great goals are evils ones. Leaders can take us down the garden path to ----- hell. Someone has to evaluate. That is what Ps are for. That is a different kind of leadership.

 

[Words]

There is a reason though for the existence of Ps. Sometimes the great goals are evils ones. Leaders can take us down the garden path to ----- hell. Someone has to evaluate. That is what Ps are for. That is a different kind of leadership.

But the battles are always fought within the J vs. J arena. Perceivers are the audience that enjoys the show. The no-action sinner; the bastard form of "hesitant".

Alignment:

(-5) J
(0) P
(+5) J

 

[NeverAmI]

I think I would be fairly upset if someone said I was too closed-minded or judgmental.

I tend to pride myself on being dynamical and adaptable. Then again, I always seem to get my lessons in humility that remind me otherwise.

 

[Madoness]

Not in a sense that I've been put into a category by some people who should know me, yet still mislabel me. Ending up as being labeled as INTJ is not a problem, but that people seem to be, in that case, thinking of me being different that I really am, though it may be I who has got it wrong, is what I got issue with.

I dislike that I've been mislabeled. As is the same with my political views and stuff like that, when I've been put into a category by some people I know and yet this category they've put me in, is not what I'm really about.

 

[Lithorn]

two, IP= causes some sort of femininity? Defending your point stubbornly is more masculine. I prefer masculinity. Preference beautifies judging.

I don't think it's so much a matter of J being more masculine, just that society has cultivated it in males and frowned upon it in females. Think about it. Men are "dominant" "single-minded" "driven". The female equivalent is graced with such labels as "harridan" "fishwife" "bitch" and "dyke". If female Js are more bitter and angry, it is because society has for so long stripped them of the power to pursue their goals and told them that their very nature is unacceptable. The kind of attitude you seem to be condoning is a horrible double standard.

 

[walfin]

According to the stats here,

56.1% of females and 52.1% of males are J types.

So it's a roughly even split.

Plus, I'm pretty sure the INTP female is more oppressed than the ESFJ female though the latter is a judging type. Correct me if I'm wrong, INTP women

For the record, I've just voted. The motivation for this post was because somebody wrote somewhere in a post that he was "accused" of being an INTJ. I wondered if INTPs do take offence. Do note that I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong to be offended at being called an INTJ (INTP that I am, I don't think either is necessarily bad).

Apparently it seems that less people see it as an insult than not.

 

[BigApplePi]

But the battles are always fought within the J vs. J arena. Perceivers are the audience that enjoys the show. The no-action sinner; the bastard form of "hesitant".

Alignment:

(-5) J
(0) P
(+5) J

Words. I think of myself as a P, so let me think on what you said. Here's a story if you can put up with it. I was once invited to an Abortion bulletin board because of my impartiality. Now nothing at that time could get people more passionate than abortion. Everyone took a strong position. Not me. I was and am fascinated by people differences. I ask, "Why can't people get along? Isn't there some rational solution?" I despirately wanted to learn about life. Why did these people (xxFJs) care so much yet about opposite things? So I played the role of listing all their views. Every week I published poster's views, about 25 using one or two sentences.

Now I thought I was performing a good deed. You say I was "enjoying the show"? One guy insisted on pressuring me to take a position. Another women was enraged I published her view. But I couldn't take a position and at that time couldn't defend myself. Today I know what my position should have been. It was a J position for me to stay out of it, but I got involved with this guy. So I do have a J aspect.

 

[Words]

I don't think it's so much a matter of J being more masculine, just that society has cultivated it in males and frowned upon it in females. Think about it. Men are "dominant" "single-minded" "driven". The female equivalent is graced with such labels as "harridan" "fishwife" "bitch" and "dyke". If female Js are more bitter and angry, it is because society has for so long stripped them of the power to pursue their goals and told them that their very nature is unacceptable. The kind of attitude you seem to be condoning is a horrible double standard.

in my case, it matters not. It's the behavior, not the social pressure, that is appealing. If femininity=strong=decisiveness=leadership, then I'd be happy to apply it.

In another case, in regards to the general trend, males dominates this role. Therefore, it is a masculine trait, but this not necessarily mean exclusively. I don't understand how its unfair if borders were properly understood.

Apparently it seems that less people see it as an insult than not.

In the sense of indirectly showing how incapable you are in properly identifying your type, wherein "called"=accused, it is quite insulting.

Words. I think of myself as a P, so let me think on what you said. Here's a story if you can put up with it. I was once invited to an Abortion bulletin board because of my impartiality. Now nothing at that time could get people more passionate than abortion. Everyone took a strong position. Not me. I was and am fascinated by people differences. I ask, "Why can't people get along? Isn't there some rational solution?" I despirately wanted to learn about life. Why did these people (xxFJs) care so much yet about opposite things? So I played the role of listing all their views. Every week I published poster's views, about 25 using one or two sentences.

Now I thought I was performing a good deed. You say I was "enjoying the show"? One guy insisted on pressuring me to take a position. Another women was enraged I published her view. But I couldn't take a position and at that time couldn't defend myself. Today I know what my position should have been. It was a J position for me to stay out of it, but I got involved with this guy. So I do have a J aspect.

I'm not sure what your point is. Everyone has J's(Si,Ni,Fe,Te) and P's (Se,Ne,Fi,Ti)?

I was, in a sense, creating pure characters symbolizing the letters themselves, not actual people examples.

To act and/or not to act is not hard.

 

[soraya]

If female Js are more bitter and angry, it is because society has for so long stripped them of the power to pursue their goals and told them that their very nature is unacceptable.

Agree somewhat, but with an addendum. I would have to say it is the combination of T and J in women that society frowns upon. The F and J combo seems to be much more accepted. I think society says it is ok for women to make judgments in concert with feeling than with thinking. I think it is the T rather than the J/P divide that is the main issue here. (ex. I'm in a terrible gender studies class that basically takes a crap on T women every day by assuming that all women are F).

So yeah, it kind of sucks and yes I am somewhat bitter and angry because society has, for my whole life, basically told me that my nature is unacceptable. But, I think it is more because of the T than because of the J. The combination of the T and J means that any woman with a TJ combination rather than FJ or FP is going to be somewhat ostracized. Oh the joys of being an INTJ female...

Anyway, to bring the whole conversation back to the point now that we've wandered into gender construction, No, it is never an insult to be called an INTJ, rather it is the highest honor imaginable On the flip side, I would be honored if someone called me an INTP. I'm not ,and I love being INTJ, but there's a lot of qualities about INTP that I appreciate and value. yay for INT ness!

 

[Lithorn]

in my case, it matters not. It's the behavior, not the social pressure, that is appealing. If femininity=strong=decisiveness=leadership, then I'd be happy to apply it.

In another case, in regards to the general trend, males dominates this role. Therefore, it is a masculine trait, but this not necessarily mean exclusively. I don't understand how its unfair if borders were properly understood.

But you're basically saying that you'd rather pander to society's game than actually try to get to the truth of the matter.
Even the qualifier that it's not an exclusively masculine trait forces the women into an artificial minority, a position of weakness which does not allow them to realize their full potential.
If a woman, by her nature, would be a strong decisive leader, she has to reject society's norms, overcome stereotypes, and basically claw her way up to a position of authority from much further down. Is it any wonder then that fewer women than men have made it? The idea of such a personality being masculine is a result of this disparity, not a cause.

 

[Adymus]

Okay Adymus perhaps I should take a back seat to this until or unless I ever get a handle on typology. I may be looking at the whole thing incorrectly because I'm pretty sure I don't have the foundations firmly in mind.

Having issued that disclaimer, more thoughts: Let's say the top two functions are Ti, Ne. Even allowing for redundancy, what is the Pi/Ji/Pe/Je? Is it Pi because of Ti, Pe because of Ne, Ji because of Ti or Je because of Ne? Do we know or is the choice uncertain?

"Functional hierarchy" you say. Yes if determinable by other functions. But if independent, then not in a hierarchy.

No, there actually is no choice, because the process itself refers to it's attitude.

For instance, Ti is a form of judgment and it is introverted, therefore it is Ji. Ne is a form of perception and it is extroverted, therefore it is Pe. But like I said, actually having to state whether something is Ji/Pi/Je/Ji is just redundant, because it should be obvious by looking at the function itself. It is never independent of the functions themselves, it refers directly to them.

 

[Words]

But you're basically saying that you'd rather pander to society's game than actually try to get to the truth of the matter.

The truth? The truth is there, if you yourself understand that truth, then that is enough. Society is what it is and in order to participate in it, you must accept its capital condition.

Even the qualifier that it's not an exclusively masculine trait forces the women into an artificial minority, a position of weakness which does not allow them to realize their full potential.

It doesn't "force"; at least, not to the extent I'm sensing your expressing. There are many women presidents, high ranking officials, etc. But the numbers favor men. Does this mean women are forced and that the numbers are rubbish? No, its simply the usual lack of objectivity(T) we find in women. Modern society can't force our personalities.

Your mother, sister, female friends etc. List all of their traits. If you believe that their true personality is not what they show because of society's influence, you should ask about their happiness.

To change your entire self, in exchange for society's acceptance and the dissatisfaction as a result of it, even when society is already quite flexible, would be an unrealistic event.

If a woman, by her nature, would be a strong decisive leader, she has to reject society's norms, overcome stereotypes, and basically claw her way up to a position of authority from much further down.

The extent of the difficulty your expressing is exaggerated. That personality will manifests itself, in such a way that it would lead to an easier obtainment of the position. This is, in turn, "unfair" for the other types. Plus, a strong decisive leader would understand those norms and if effective enough, would be able to handle this problem and include it to the rest of their problems.

The idea of such a personality being masculine is a result of this disparity, not a cause.

your view is that we cannot tell if dogs can't fly because of the possibility that they're afraid of the fact that they're not suppose to. But here's the case, they have instincts. It is natural, and nature will attest.

 

[BigApplePi]

No, there actually is no choice, because the process itself refers to it's attitude.

For instance, Ti is a form of judgment and it is introverted, therefore it is Ji. Ne is a form of perception and it is extroverted, therefore it is Pe. But like I said, actually having to state whether something is Ji/Pi/Je/Ji is just redundant, because it should be obvious by looking at the function itself. It is never independent of the functions themselves, it refers directly to them.

Adymus. That was what I was after. Redundancy aside, we have a deduction. We have a truth to be noted. Namely INTPs are
Ti-Ne-Si-Fe-Ji-Pe.

Adymus I was all set to form a summary but this:
Re: Is it an insult to be..

The J or P is always implied based one which functions are your strongest for you. Te, Fe, Si, and Ni are all directive functions, which is why if one of these is your dominant and auxiliary, you are a J. Ne, Se, Fi, and Ti are all adaptive functions, so If one of these are your dominant and auxiliar, you are a P.

When we do just about any activity we are both Adapting and directing to some degree, and you will use both P and J functions. Let's take this post for example, you probably went straight to Ti and then Ne first, so at this point you were adapting to the new information given, but then when it came time to type of this post, you had to put structure into it, and actually direct where you are going this this. For that you had to reach over Si so you can retrieve from your bank of facts the details of the cognitive functions that you talk about, and then Fe so you can organism it all into articulation.

says Te is directive making one a J and Ti is adaptive making one a P. This appears to be a contradiction. I hate the word, "obvious."

Spoiler

This reminds me of the story of the mathematician who wrote in his notes, "The proof is obvious." After he died and this was discovered, mathematicians had to spend months of work to reproduce the proof. Obvious indeed!

Also you have the words, "one of these." I think you mean "two of these."

 

[BigApplePi]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigApplePi

BAP said: I think of myself as a P, so let me think on what you said. Here's a story if you can put up with it. I was once invited to an Abortion bulletin board because of my impartiality. Now nothing at that time could get people more passionate than abortion. Everyone took a strong position. Not me. I was and am fascinated by people differences. I ask, "Why can't people get along? Isn't there some rational solution?" I despirately wanted to learn about life. Why did these people (xxFJs) care so much yet about opposite things? So I played the role of listing all their views. Every week I published poster's views, about 25 using one or two sentences.

Now I thought I was performing a good deed. You say I was "enjoying the show"? One guy insisted on pressuring me to take a position. Another women was enraged I published her view. But I couldn't take a position and at that time couldn't defend myself. Today I know what my position should have been. It was a J position for me to stay out of it, but I got involved with this guy. So I do have a J aspect.

Words said: I'm not sure what your point is. Everyone has J's(Si,Ni,Fe,Te) and P's (Se,Ne,Fi,Ti)?

I was, in a sense, creating pure characters symbolizing the letters themselves, not actual people examples.
To act and/or not to act is not hard.

Words, originally you said: "But the battles are always fought within the J vs. J arena. Perceivers are the audience that enjoys the show. The no-action sinner; the bastard form of "hesitant". "

I was responding to that. I was smack dab in the middle of the battle.

 

[Adymus]

Adymus. That was what I was after. Redundancy aside, we have a deduction. We have a truth to be noted. Namely INTPs are
Ti-Ne-Si-Fe-Ji-Pe.

Adymus I was all set to form a summary but this:
Re: Is it an insult to be..


says Te is directive making one a J and Ti is adaptive making one a P. This appears to be a contradiction. I hate the word, "obvious."

Spoiler

This reminds me of the story of the mathematician who wrote in his notes, "The proof is obvious." After he died and this was discovered, mathematicians had to spend months of work to reproduce the proof. Obvious indeed!

Also you have the words, "one of these." I think you mean "two of these."

In what way is that a contradiction?

 

[Words]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigApplePi
Words, originally you said: "But the battles are always fought within the J vs. J arena. Perceivers are the audience that enjoys the show. The no-action sinner; the bastard form of "hesitant". "

I was responding to that. I was smack dab in the middle of the battle.

This middle stance is a stance, isn't it? and the stubbornness of this stance is a judging quality, isn't it? and the perceiving counterpart action would be to simply observe and avoid interaction?

There's a difference between simply information gathering and to decide not to decide.

 

[BigApplePi]

This middle stance is a stance, isn't it? and the stubbornness of this stance is a judging quality, isn't it? and the perceiving counterpart action would be to simply observe and avoid interaction?

There's a difference between simply information gathering and to decide not to decide.

Words. Well said. Exactly. I am thinking about something though. That is that a fervid neutral stance is a judgment about other judgments. Therefore it resides at a higher hierarchical level. Your post is a judgment about this and resides at an even higher level. Makes sense? It's not an easy concept to take with one.