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INTP to INFP flip flop?

Renk Fasze

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Im an INTP...yet sometimes i switch to INFP...i can't pinpoint why (haha, split personality?) Just curious to see if any other INTP finds themself doing this from time to time.
 

Jordan~

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My thread, "INXP", in MBTI & Other Typing is about this. My current thought is that it's part of the emergence of Fe.
 

echoplex

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^ I think that's part of it. Another thing might be that Ti simply has similarities to Fi that make them sometimes hard to distinguish. They both tend to be system-building functions (just different rules to the systems), and they tend to make people a bit uncertain -- but take very seriously the things they are certain about. They are functions that both tend to give people a sense of inner truth that is often only shared with those most trusted.

I think what also might confuse people is that they think Ti is unemotional. The reality is likely that any Judging function is quite emotional, even T functions. It's just that we tend to associate F with emotions and T with robotic coldness. But anyone who cares enough to pursue understanding (like Ti does) is likely to sometimes feel emotional about that pursuit, or at least the results of it. There was actually an article I read recently that compared "aha!" moments to orgasm in terms of brain functioning. That may not mean much to what I'm saying though.

A good Ti vs. Fi test might be: Do you often have an intense feeling that some people just aren't good and can't be trusted? or do you tend to try to understand why people are the way they are regardless of any moral inpulses?

Another one might be the issue of good and evil. Where Fi is more likley to regard people as good or evil, and Ti is more likely to regard people as products of environment/genetics with the concept of good and evil either moot or secondary. (I could be oversimplifying though)

I'd like for an INFP to chime in. I've thought I was INFP before myself. :eek:
 

transformers

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Did anyone hear about that lady who died by drinking too much water for a radio contest? (article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8333197.stm) A good test for "T" ness is if you think she deserved to die because she was stupid. Not that you're heartless, you just think she should've known better and that her actions were her own fault.

INFP's would be much more forgiving.
 

echoplex

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^ Yes, I remember hearing about that, and yes it was very stupid. The thing is though, does stupidity mean someone deserves to die? Under which conditions does anyone "deserve" to die? For that matter, who deserves to live? I suppose that in a Darwinian sense, it's natural selection causing the stupid to die out (like Darwin awards), but I think that's a different kind of "deserving" than what you're talking about. Do people born with disabilities deserve to die for their "bad" genes? What about ugly, yet intelligent people?

I actually think no one deserves life or death, if that makes any sense. Shit just happens.
 

transformers

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Yeah, I guess "deserve" wasn't exactly the right word to use. Nobody really deserves to die, shit just happens, as you've said. But that doesn't excuse them from using common sense when they can. Stupidity, as in making reckless decisions when you have the full capacity and ability to inform yourself and make better decisions, should not be tolerated.
 

Aiss

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I think what also might confuse people is that they think Ti is unemotional. The reality is likely that any Judging function is quite emotional, even T functions. It's just that we tend to associate F with emotions and T with robotic coldness. But anyone who cares enough to pursue understanding (like Ti does) is likely to sometimes feel emotional about that pursuit, or at least the results of it. There was actually an article I read recently that compared "aha!" moments to orgasm in terms of brain functioning. That may not mean much to what I'm saying though.

I agree completely. It seems that many people here claim they've got a high Fi just because they're actually capable of having feelings. Thinking/Feeling are misleading names - everyone has at least some ability to reason and to feel. It's how we make decisions, what we aim to achieve, how we define the world and ourselves which differs.

I think the good comparison is in an INFP profile:
Experiences are to be assessed based on the personal values elected by the INFP. Unlike the dominant Introverted Thinking temperament—the INTP who seeks to derive an understanding of external experiences, the INFP seeks to derive a sense of personal meaning. An INTP asks what is the most accurate model to depict the observed phenomenon, yet the INFP would ask—what personal lesson could be derived from this particular experience? And how this is conducive to an establishment of sound personal values. In short, whilst the INTP tends to ask—what is true, the INFP asks what is humane?

(...)

This suffices to depict the discrepancy between the INTP’s search for truth and the INFP’s search for authenticity. However, we should take note that despite the striking contrast in attitudes of these two types, the similarities seem to be more prominent as they both find it paramount to discover a higher purpose and devote their lives to this archetypal notion. Much like for the INTP, the experience tends to take a ‘back-seat’ role for the INFP, as they too tend to be highly theoretical. Paul James writes in regards to the INTP “what is not yet understood is a very powerful force in the life of an INTP.” As powerful of a driving force for the INFP would be the need to come to benign terms with their external environment. Introverted Feeling can be characterized by the will and need to love to the same extent as Introverted Thinking by the need to understand all. Therefore the INFP seeks to find harmony with all things in an analogous fashion to the INTP attempting to find an objective understanding of all things. The INFP seeks a subjective understanding of all things, or personal sympathy, in a fashion much akin to the INTP seeking an objective understanding of all things.
 

Anthile

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Ah, what the other people here said is something I can agree with.

1. You don't switch between types.

2. My theory was that very strong or very weak Ti looks can resemble Fi.

3. INTPs mistake Fi with Fe due to poor testing methods and confusing function descriptions.

4. Aiss is right when s/he says that "thinking" and "feeling" are very bad choices to describe these two processes. I can only suggest to use "principles" and "values" here, which was originally Lor's idea.

5. My newest theory is that two functions that are next to each other can change their position and thus create sub-types outside of the norm which then can resemble other types.
Example:
Original INTP: Ti Ne Si Fe
Possible INTP who thinks s/he could be INFP: Ti Ne Fe Si

However, such a variance can only appear once within the function order.


This theory rose to the surface as I couldn't figure my own type out. I was somewhere between INFJ and INTP which act actually very different. Now I consider myself to be an INFJ with the order Ni Ti Fe Se.
 

Minuend

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I agree "feeler" and "thinker" are somewhat misleading terms.

I used to think I could be a feeler. But since I've started seeing a counselor, I see that I don't understand my emotions at all. They are like a separate being from me, which visit from time to time messing with my perspective of things.
When I feel emotions, I ask myself why I'm feeling that emotion. I don't instantly know. And then I analyze the feeling; Is there a logical reason for me to be feeling that way? Why is this upsetting me, when a similar situation had no effect? How can I make the feeling go away? =(
Usually I try to suppress my emotions, push them aside. I don't know how to deal with them. I think that makes me a thinker, even though they can influence my actions.

We are humans, so there's bound to be some emotions occasionally, I suppose.
 

Carnap

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How would I know if I had strong or weak Ti? You say they both can resemble Fi.
 

Fukyo

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If we're going to stick to MBTI to the letter saying that a person has an individual alternate function ordering would be as fallacious as saying that we can switch between types.

The impression that one has a different function order(Ti,Ne,Fe,Si) is just a subjective reasoning based on individual's understanding of how his different internal processes work and connecting them to a definition of a function to explain a mode of behavior that deviates from the usual norm(Ti,Ne,Si,Fe).

I don't think that the order of the functions actually changes,but the emergence of "inferior" functions confuses people.Using your 3rd and 4th function is expected development.

Specifically with INTPs this is probably what happens:
INTPs are very internally structured.When Fe starts kicking in,the structure gets thrown out of balance and this causes confusion in regards to the usage of T/F.Fe can manifest as intense,unpredictable emotion which starts to conflict with the structured Ti.The INTP then needs to find a way to establish the balance again and reconcile Ti with Fe.

In contrast Fi:
Fi has the same base mechanism as Ti,it just processes a different kind of information.
For reference this thread
provides a good comparison and contrast between the two.

MBTI however doesn't exclude all individual differences between individuals of one type.
If one wishes to look into different aspects of function usage there is always the MBTI Step II and III.For example this is how they divide Feeling vs Thinking:

Thinking - - - - - - Feeling
logical - - - - - - - -empathetic
reasonable - - - - - compassionate
questioning - - - - accommodating
critical - - - - - - - accepting
tough - - - - - - - -tender

It's not uncommon that people test out of preference on that test.
F that is critical,T that is tender,etc.

Some samples:

Step III INTP sample report
Step II INTJ sample report
 

Anthile

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That the type never changes is not my opinion but what the official MBTI says... somewhere.
When I say that some people have a different order then I don't mean that it changes during the lifetime. I say it's more like an inborn type mutation.

In case that tertiary or even quartary can develop faster than primary or secondary functions we have to doubt the MBTI itself.


PS: One day I sure will kill you for not using spaces after dots and commas... >.>
 

Fukyo

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That the type never changes is not my opinion but what the official MBTI says... somewhere.

Yes,I do think that's what the official MBTI says.

I think that people just get confused when they find themselves using other functions more often than before and their perception of themselves changes.

PS: One day I sure will kill you for not using spaces after dots and commas... >.>

You can try... <.<

:p
 

Renk Fasze

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I think what also might confuse people is that they think Ti is unemotional. The reality is likely that any Judging function is quite emotional, even T functions. It's just that we tend to associate F with emotions and T with robotic coldness. But anyone who cares enough to pursue understanding (like Ti does) is likely to sometimes feel emotional about that pursuit, or at least the results of it.

If i have a question, i think, if i arrive at an unsatisfactory solution my emotion towards that drives me to delve deeper and try again. When and if i do arrive at satisfactory solution i then again am hit with emotion...maybe not jumping for joy but relief.

There was actually an article I read recently that compared "aha!" moments to orgasm in terms of brain functioning. That may not mean much to what I'm saying though.

Haha nice.

The continual pursuit of an answer comes from an emotional response and the end of a thought comes from one as well.

So the boundaries of our thought is actually our sense of emotion? So in a sense the flip flop could actually be hitting these boundaries. Then again is it possible for emotion (which is illogical) to be boundaries for thought (logical)? What?

If that's the case if one has a damaged sense of emotion...damaged boundaries...then they easily drive themselves insane. Random. Quite possibly why i think myself into circles on the regular. For some reason i want to say it makes sense.

Another one might be the issue of good and evil. Where Fi is more likley to regard people as good or evil, and Ti is more likely to regard people as products of environment/genetics with the concept of good and evil either moot or secondary. (I could be oversimplifying though)

I take both approaches on people for some reason. Some people i view as good or evil. Some people as a product of their environment...on the other hand i do not believe in victimization...everything is a choice. Although i still allow for exceptions with some people because i can see where they are coming from and they might not know any different...maybe it just shows that some people are too content with staying where they are at in life and not trying to improve...

Wow, is anyone else random like this or is it just me...and do you question your trains of thought when you display it in raw form to others like i do every time i post?
 

Zaltana

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This theory rose to the surface as I couldn't figure my own type out. I was somewhere between INFJ and INTP which act actually very different. Now I consider myself to be an INFJ with the order Ni Ti Fe Se.

I took the MBTI several years ago and tested as an INFJ. This past year I tested as INTP. I fit a lot of the INTP. However I am very in tune with others, there the INFJ in me. I even got my bachelors in social work. I find that I am very much a mix of both. My TF and JP are very close together.
 

Renk Fasze

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INFPs are governed by their feelings...so i would assume that they are very soft-hearted and easily hurt.

I suppose it is possible that with a 'damaged' sense of feeling an INFP would revert to INTP which is a safe haven for their sense of Feeling...they hide behind the T in order to protect their F (soft heart)and potentially rebuild it.

This also rings true because an INTP usually prefers a select few people to open up to. Usually (in my own experience) non-judging/extremely perceptive people. Its safe haven to open up to those people...their F is unchallenged and free to roam without fear. This being said, their gaurd is still watching in the backround. If they are crossed ONCE or see POTENTIAL of being hurt in that particular relation then they shut down and put their walls back up...the T comes back out. Points towards a wounded heart/sense of feeling.

Im only speaking from my experience but it really makes sense from my perspective, ive lived it. Maybe INTPs and INFPs are more closely related than people think. Maybe they are one and the same in a very complex way.
 

fullerene

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YouTube- Simon and Garfunkel-I Am a Rock

The lyrics in this song remind me of an INFP who has just been hurt enough that they act INTP-y. I don't think too many INTPs think like this(?), but my guess is that a hurt INFx who was hurt enough that they changed their behavior might.
 

transformers

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INTP's do express their feeling, caring sides too; the main difference between them and the INFP's is the degree of expression. INFP's express their emotions far more frequently and with greater ease than your typical INTP, who under normal circumstances, would be more restrained.
 

Myth

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Well when i Ret it, I found it kind of funny
And I had the Intp Infp Crisis. I had it From Existenial Depression or somthin ;)
And It dosent matter are u intp entp intj entp . If u have your NT core it matters
Iam kind of Entp and sometimes Intp NT people Have the Ability ti Change Their Thing Depending on their needs... Sometimes i wanna be alone smoke weed .. sometimes I wanna smoke weed with my friends .. Sometimes i Wanna go and crash a Huge party and talk with everyone and have fun with girls . Well In childhood i only had one friend ... kind of gay but I dident have any social skills I was naive .. But when Started reading books like "Rules of the game" .. The point is you dont have to be yourself You have to Bring the best out of you
 

KazeCraven

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I have seen evidence that suggests 'F' types (particularly FJ types) are rather dogmatic. INTPs tend towards uncertainty.

Answering original question: I do not tend to do this from time to time. The Ti and Fi cognitive processes are superficially similar but lead to vastly different interests and behavioral patterns over the course of life. Explanations for your experience are available through further analysis of personality theories, although I have enjoyed "getting in touch with my feeling side" from time to time and can understand why this might be misconstrued as "going 'F.'"
 

Renk Fasze

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In most cases i tend to express my INTP when im around people i haven't been able to figure out yet and its heavily expressed when i get a bad gut feel about them.

On the other hand i tend to lean towards INFP side when im around people im familiar with.

The INFP side becomes progressively more and more expressed as the relationship grows.

However the INTP side never fully dissapears...its always functioning in the backround. One just takes precidence over the other depending on the situation. I could see the possibility that the INTP protects the INFP because naturally it is stronger and more apt to manage an unfamiliar situation while the INFP is much more fragile - When my INTP side deems it safe for the INFP then the INFP is dominant as and the opposite is true as well.

Seems to me that INTP and INFP are more one and the same or at least very inter-related.

Kaze, in response to your final thought, -getting in touch with the feeling side as being misconstrued as "going F"...i can see your point of view but (for myself) i cannot pass off my "going F" as being just something i do from time to time for the sake of enjoyment. I want to express my feeling but my rational holds me back because i am afraid of what people might think or how they might react.

I really do think that life is meant to be a sort of balance of all things. If this is true then balance is really the closest we can ever get to "perfection" of our personality if you will.

I have noticed that the people that tend to have "it all figured out" or near as i can tell really truely are happy in everything they do have an uncanny ability to adapt and change very quickly to any situation. There has to be a foundation to which they return but really, what is best? A little of everything....? I would say so.

We are already very observant/intuitive if our weak areas are strengthened i would say the possiblilites are endless. The lean towards the F might be an unconcious effort to become more well rounded.

Heck, but what do i know? I ramble and i was homeschooled to boot Hahahaha :p
 

KazeCraven

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Kaze, in response to your final thought, -getting in touch with the feeling side as being misconstrued as "going F"...i can see your point of view but (for myself) i cannot pass off my "going F" as being just something i do from time to time for the sake of enjoyment. I want to express my feeling but my rational holds me back because i am afraid of what people might think or how they might react.

Okay. If you agree with both the descriptions of INTP and INFP, do assert yourself as both. I hear you, and I think you are operating on a notion that INTPs somehow cannot be friendly and connect sweetly with people. They can, and most want to be accepted for who they are which includes their odd rational core. MBTI seems to get at something deeper than our extraverted selves, assigning the superficial traits like warmness to everyone and no one all at once, and the core of INTP is very much hidden. But why would you be afraid of what people might think? People already make judgments about you for what you don't do, so might as well go ahead and do do, right?

I read an INFP profile made by INFPs (http://www.aesthetic-images.com/ebuie/infp-profile.html) to try to get a better understanding of what you are getting at. For the record...
-I am sometimes moved by heartfelt gestures, but do fine without them
-think placing value systems on people is arbitrary but don't mind the error
-can't really contribute to a discussion on values because my analysis of them involves rooting out consistencies and holding multiple value systems in my head, confused as to which ones are worth keeping

My "feeling" is more connection-based than value-based (which is what I see as the difference between Fe and Fi). My emotions, on the other hand (which I call my shadow inner child), are often misanthropic and bitter and angry at their strongest and are usually shunned after given free reign for a while.

All that being said, I emphasize my initial point, which is that if both profiles fit you, then assert yourself as both. That's what the profiles are for, right? To give yourself a sense of kinship with all who fall under said category.

In regards to becoming well-rounded, all I'll say on that is that specialization (mastery of one function) ought to precede balance, or there's really nothing in there worth balancing.
 

Thread Killer

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That 'flip flop' is normal. I held the same confusion for some time, but took a different functional approach to being INTP which is in line with socionics than MBTI, but either way, having a feeling side that is moderately expressed should be normal, I think.
 

Renk Fasze

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Thanks actually...i think i was approaching it with the notion an INTP isn't viewed as capable of being friendly/sweet and that is very much wrong in the direct sense.

It also might be that i think others see me as cold because most times i don't warm up quickly at all.

They can, and most want to be accepted for who they are which includes their odd rational core

I can relate to this. Sometimes it seems to me as if all i want is for someone only to listen as i ramble through my thoughts.

I know people will always judge...including myself. I've been giving this a lot of thought lately and i think I've found the answer. I think it is the trigger to when i flip flop...

...I don't show my core to just anyone. When i do show it i have felt out the situation/person very carefully and deemed it safe. On some occasions i was dead wrong and others i still don't understand but either way i ended up hurt. So reveling in the pain (pansy move i know) i retreat into INTP and hide from my emotions. My INFP is protected, as it is safe to approach anything from an INTP standpoint because you cant hurt logic.

My emotions, on the other hand (which I call my shadow inner child), are often misanthropic and bitter and angry at their strongest and are usually shunned after given free reign for a while.

I do the same things sometimes...usually gets to that point when i bottle things up because i have no outlet.

I know these personality profiles aren't entirely accurate...would be better to view them as a place for understanding to begin...its a foundation on which to build.

In regards to becoming well-rounded, all I'll say on that is that specialization (mastery of one function) ought to precede balance, or there's really nothing in there worth balancing.

I could see that for sure. I might suggest that becoming well balanced is possibly equally important as while one area grows or a new one is added it will offer a different perspective of all other held attributes and therefore allowing the possibility for even more growth. Uniform growth yields the best results...as if it really matters though any growth is good.
 

KazeCraven

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The profiles merely describe archetypes, meaning a person that identifies and is driven strongly by one or two dominant functions. For actual people we can at best, I would argue, account for 80% of behavior with such a broad generalization. And I'm being extremely generous with that number. (1% of all people is still a heck of a lot to describe as if they were all the same!) Other people aren't as stable as you might think through everyday interaction with them.

As has been said before, clearly there are more than 16 types of people, and everyone uses every function at least a little bit. As Vicky Jo so aptly writes, "Remember that type indicates preferences, not behavior. People often use behaviors that are not based on their actual preferences to adapt to specific situations." And I would add that adapting can mean a whole lot of things, including getting one's needs met.

I always feel like I'm leaving something off whenever I finish writing...

Edit: Ahh, here's one. Dominant Fi/Fe people might be sensitive, but since their functions are well developed they would be expected to be stronger and more confident when dealing with personal things (yes, I just inferred that one from prior knowledge, so take it with a grain of salt). When hurt, they most certainly (usually) do not retreat behind their weaker Ti/Te-ness. Think of it like the dominant function being the adult and the inferior function being an underdeveloped child. And for the record, before I walk anyone into misconceptions, Fi/Fe are judgment functions that may use emotions to make decisions. They are not, themselves, emotions.

Edit2: If I messed up somewhere, do please correct me.
 

Antireality

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On the flip-flopping from intp to infp, I think that it's fairly normal even on the most accurate tests. Personally I think that if you wanted a truly accurate result you would need a larger sample taken at intervals, because things as simple as the mood you might be in at any given point can skew the results. Also as was said people also adapt to situations given them. Take me for example, my job title is technically sales, a very non-INTP job. In practice though I adapted to the position well because, though I may have to force myself into being extroverted at times which can be visibly unnatural, I am far beyond my peers at troubleshooting technical problems, which I can use as a sales tool to keep repeat business numbers up.

A theory that I believe can draw a line between INTP and INFP is that the T will be motivated to to make decisions that are inherently poor for them personally, or to a detriment to themselves, if they prove the best solution to a given problem. Whereas a F should attempt to shy away from those solutions because of the emotional responses that would be involved. This theory doesn't hold up all the time though. In a conversation I was having with my cousin, who is and ENTP (which makes for nice conversation), he proposed the question of who would be more likely to jump on a live grenade. We decided that the F would probably be more likely, even at their detriment obviously, because their emotions make them more likely to act rashly. The T would more that likely attempt to find a better solution and most likely the grenade would go off because of lack of time to formulate one. /shrug It's probably a junk question though since we were both relatively trashed on some quite fine single malt scotch at the time.

Forgive my horribly long walls of text. Nice forum btw :smoker:
 

Starfruit M.E.

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I've also spent some time thinking on INxP. Many people believe that a person is fair, or merciful. Or as someone else posted...
Thinking - - - - - - Feeling
logical - - - - - - - -empathetic
reasonable - - - - - compassionate
questioning - - - - accommodating
critical - - - - - - - accepting
tough - - - - - - - -tender
But can someone be both?
Let's say that a child has done something wrong. Is it possible to discipline the child, while also letting the child know that they are loved and that they will be forgiven? Is that tough, or tender? The discipline is tough, but the child understands through tenderness that the discipline had purpose.
Can a person be critical and accepting? In listening to a man talk about himself, for instance, someone may decide that that he is not at all the person they would like him to be. They believe he should suffer his own consequences, and if he went to jail for something they did, they would think he deserved it. However, they also understand how he has arrived at who he is, and although they don't like what he has become, they genuinely care for him and do their best to help him come around. What is this?

I can give examples for each of the situations above, if needed. If someone feels that they can clarify these examples to pointing at one or the other, I would be intrigued. I have been asking myself these questions, as I have tested an INxP. I react in a similar way to what I have been describing. Any comments?
 

Auburn

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Melody - Yes, I totally agree. It's very possible to see and experience situations from more than one perspective - be it T/F, N/S, I/E, P/J, or something completely different. I would even venture to say that it is a natural part of maturity to be able to experience things from opposing perspectives simultaneously. A quote that I really like:

The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. - F. Scott Fitzgerald


It's very possible to use T and F together, although that does not indicate one is both (i.e INXP) but that one uses one of each function (Ti & Fe / Te & Fi) hand in hand. I think that at a low level of development, personalities usually view things mainly from their Dominant and Auxiliary functions alone. However, through development, they balance out their initial perspective with other perspectives. In an INTP, the Fe is meant to counter the Ti, and present the individual with a sounder and more complete overall outlook in a situation. In your case, I think you're probably either a well developed INTP or a well developed INFP. =]

Btw, welcome to the forum! ^^

Anthile - I have a somewhat different theory about this. For a while I too thought my tertiary and inferior functions were swapped [Ti-Ne-Fe-Si] but then I realized that this is probably because Fe is an extroverted function. I think extroverted functions are more likely to appear higher up on the scale because they are more visible and expressive. However that doesn't necessarily mean they're more developed, but just more visible. Still, I realize this doesn't explain your own particular situation since you consider an introverted function to be higher up the scale than the usual extroverted one. hmm..



 

Starfruit M.E.

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Thank you! That is an interesting quote. I will look into Fitzgerald.

In looking at my childhood, I believe I had to learn both how to think, and how to feel. I do think that I may have started with one or the other, but I am not certain which. Never the less, your post was very helpful.

In response to the original post, I do think that you are either thinking or feeling, but have either learned to use both, or in certain situations feel a need to use different skills. If it is the second, you may consider what you do in your spare time, or how you feel after using each skill. For instance, around my more quiet friends, I tend to feel a need to be outspoken. So I do more talking around them. Afterwards, however, I tend to feel drained and go spend some time alone. For a while, I was unsure about my levels of introversion and extroversion because many of my friends were quiet, but after I examined what I did on my own, and how I felt after I had used the skill, it became more clear to me that I was very much of an introvert who had simply learned to use another skill in certain situations. Because I had developed this skill, however, it somewhat effected my testing. You may find that your situation could be similar. Either way, greetings to another INxP in search of answers, and have a good day!
 

Renk Fasze

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Just a random thought, i seem to make my life incredibly difficult with the T fighting the F with every experience i encounter.

I crave to allow myself to feel yet i don't want to be hurt so my logic tells me to avoid but if i avoid i don't get what i need.

So i continuously run in circles never seeming finding rest.

Ive been chasing my tail for so long and i don't understand why. I have a pretty good memory of what my childhood was like for some reason and i distinctly remember not wrestling with this issue. I brushed things aside very easily.

The most significant differences between then and now i think are while i still know a lot of people i don't have any close friendships (i had two or three solid close friendships growing up) and of course i have more life experience.

Anyhow, to sum up my ramblings, I think INTP/INFP's as withdrawn as they might be need a strong support. If it it isnt there then everything tends to collapse in on itself.

It all makes sense to me but id like to know if anyone can relate to this or if im completely off base...
 
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Starfruit M.E.

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I crave to allow myself to feel yet i don't want to be hurt so my logic tells me to avoid but if i avoid i don't get what i need.
[...]

Anyhow, to sum up my ramblings, I think INTP/INFP's as withdrawn as they might be need a strong support. If it it isnt there then everything tends to collapse in on itself.

Speaking for myself, I find that sometimes I need support, but other times I need to learn to support myself. And sometimes I need to risk being hurt to get what I need, while other times I have to realize that the risk outweighs the need. Don't let something you struggle with become an excuse to not try. There is a balance, and with experience, you'll find it.

In general, I think that hiding who you are for fear of embarrassment is not a good idea. Studies show that a person can only fake themselves for about a year and a half before they fall apart.

I am not an expert on friendships... For many years, though, I did not have many friends. I didn't understand why. Later I learned that I had been looking at it backwards. Instead of waiting for someone to come listen to me and be my friend, I probably should have spent more time listening to other people and trying to be a friend. Like Gandhi said, "be the change you want to see in the world". It makes most introverts tired, but if friends are worth that risk to you, then you will find that it is worth it.
 

Renk Fasze

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I know this is old but im beginning to believe, through personal experience, that the flip flop is caused by the present situation.

In danger to who i am, protection of my core, i revert to the thinking side which is based in logic.

It is very hard to defeat/damage/wound logic. Therefore my core is safe.

In times where i am not 'in danger' i revert to my feeling side.

Much easier to be wounded there because feelings have nothing to be founded on(at least nothing as solid as pure and true logic) and are easily shook and broken.

My theory is that INTP's, more often than not, hide behind their logic because they are hiding their soft core.

Their true core comes out amongst people/friends/family when they deem it safe.

Hence, the flip flop. It is normal. It is used as a defense.
 

Audentia

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Did anyone hear about that lady who died by drinking too much water for a radio contest? (article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8333197.stm) A good test for "T" ness is if you think she deserved to die because she was stupid. Not that you're heartless, you just think she should've known better and that her actions were her own fault.

INFP's would be much more forgiving.


When I first read this I thought it was funny, actually. In a really, 'wow how stupid has society become', kind of funny. I think if someone is going to be that stupid, to drink a massive excess of water causing their kidneys to fail and cause their blood get way too diluted, they deserved it. I'm sorry, but hello, common sense?! If your body says stop, f'n stop. Lol. What I don't get is how on earth did she manage not throwing up and be able to push it that far?


I'm an INFP as far as I know. Everything about INFPs screams me, but I'm not excessively emotional as many of them seem to be. I get irritated easily when people are overly irrational, 'drama queens' all the time, or extremely emotional over petty stuff... I don't have patience for it. And it bothers me when people do not use facts; drives me up the wall when people base decisions, thoughts, or actions only on assumptions instead of solid reason.

I do have my emotional tidal-wave moments if my buttons get pushed to a breaking point, though :p... but who doesn't?

That said, I do not have that light-switch like emotional detachment that INTPs possess. I cannot be like that. If people matter to me, they matter, I cannot pretend they don't exist and don't matter for months. That's one big way I know I'm not an INTP. That, and I'm not afraid to have a healthy relationship with my feelings and emotions and actually express them when need be.
 

Audentia

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Also, I actually feel a lot better after releasing or expressing or feeling my emotions when they're really strong... they will dissipate quickly after letting them out. Which is why I get the automatic drive to feel them whether I want to or not. It seems like doing that tends to make INTPs feel worse or perhaps overwhelmed and confused. Shrug.
 

Audentia

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YouTube- Simon and Garfunkel-I Am a Rock

The lyrics in this song remind me of an INFP who has just been hurt enough that they act INTP-y. I don't think too many INTPs think like this(?), but my guess is that a hurt INFx who was hurt enough that they changed their behavior might.

When INFPs get really hurt we tend to seek out comfort in those that we trust and who are very close to us, to get over the strong hurt feelings and get our emotions balanced again. If it's extreme hurt... I'll go emotionally numb for a while.. which is actually even worse. So I guess we can be an emotional island..?

INTPs seem to shut out everything and take longer to rebound from big things. I don't know.
 

fullerene

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yeah... that's roughly what my girlfriend says too. Well, she insists she takes a long time to recover from things too, but mostly as a pre-emptive defense so that I can't (fairly) get mad at her for taking so long. The relationship's still pretty young, so I don't mind the not-trust too much, at least yet.

She said the same, though, about emotions balancing once they're expressed and accepted by someone else. Doesn't make much sense to me... but I don't think it really has to. On our part, I don't think it's a constant shutting-things-out as much as it is "I actually can't tell whether I'm hurt by this or not." That may have developed from years of shutting things out when younger, though--I have no idea.
 

Renk Fasze

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Fullerene:

Take what i say with a grain of salt. I don't know your girl. From what i have seen the best people in life take the longest to get to know or open up and at the same time they are the easiest to lose. The deepest and most rewarding are those that guard their hearts. The quietest person in the room is the most interesting. Patience and you might have what all other dudes dream of.

As far as the balancing of emotion once they have been exposed.

Deeper people seem to weigh their emotions carefully, then when they deem it is partially safe, they reveal to test.

I hope you mean what you say when you say you don't think it has to mean anything.

Roll with it, let her work through her guard and if you love her...allow the space but be near enough to where you can offer support if you are able.


Regarding the shutting things out when you were younger.

In my experience, im young, i shut many things out when i was young and through this i am still effected. However, just because i have disallowed myself to feel when i was young and had less knowledge (not that i know anything now) its a bit up-lifting to know that i can allow the experience that i barred at will and WHILE i am in a more mature state of mind.

Almost like a late bloomer they experience things in a, more than likely, a better more clear and knowing mind.
 

fullerene

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ahh... thanks renk, but to be honest, I think you took the completely wrong tone from my post. Or... underestimated our ages? or something. I'm not disappointed with her at all, and I know full well that the quieter people are much more rewarding to get to know. I care very little for quantity of friends (though they're usually appreciated), and it took 'til about middle school (almost ashamed to say) to learn it was a bad idea to look at what other people want to know what i do.

I do appreciate the advice, though. It was all very... solid. It's just not much I hadn't already thought of and pretty much agreed with.

Also: when I said "on our part" -- I meant "us as INTPs". I don't think INFPs have that problem. I realized that was horribly misleading, though, the way I wrote it.
 

Renk Fasze

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Haha, looks like i missed it completely sorry mate.

Im sorry, i didnt mean to come across as underestimating your ages, didn't mean to sound belittling - that was not my intention. It was more course of habit i suppose. Most of the people im around on a daily basis and that i associate with have a different view than mine. I merely state what i see they are possibly missing.
 
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