Forum Mafia Game #1

[Hadoblado]

1. It's tyranny of the majority when used to apply justice. Everyone should have sovereignty over their own person.

2. Infliction of suffering and pain on another is indefensible because no sane human would wish it upon themselves.

3. It is antagonistic to having a predictable and safe society. There could be dueling between individuals or mass purging etc but that should be practiced in a society that was designed with those values in mind, when others didn't volunteer to participate in death.

Guys look at this post ESC made in another thread recently, responding to Ruminator. It's got more content in it that his entire contribution this game by far. How do we reconcile in our mind this ESC who we know to be quite capable, with this idiot we find in thread? He's playing us. This isn't cherrypicked, it's one of the first posts he gives on his filter outside this thread.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Hol' up. Outside content is permitted? Didn't think we could do that since it isn't allowed the other way around.

 

[redbaron]

You tell me.

Why are you so reluctant to make an actual effort to convict us? You keep going on about convictions, but you seemingly have none.

What does an ESC-led town look like? Why are you so loathe to provide actual suspicions. You're not playing this game, you're playing Armchair Mafia Critic, poking holes and arguing around the gaps in what Hadoblado and I are doing after the fact.

Why would a Townie do that?

I see zero focus on lurkers here from you two yet lurkers were your primary suspects in round one. Could be you don't need to rely on that weak strat anymore since you know who the actual town is.

Mafia know all identities even in Day 1, so we never needed to rely on anything to get townies lynched.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Mafia know all identities even in Day 1, so we never needed to rely on anything to get townies lynched.

Did you just admit that you're mafia?

 

[Hadoblado]

You tell me. I see zero focus on lurkers here from you two yet lurkers were your primary suspects in round one. Could be you don't need to rely on that weak strat anymore since you know who the actual town is.

"Guys no we need to stop what we're doing and focus on the lurkers".

You are a lurker. But now you're about to get lynched, so suddenly it's okay for you to post. 100% of my focus is on lynching a lurker right now.

But if in some parallel universe where you hadn't been lurking, we had suddenly stopped attacking lurkers day two. That would be fine. Why are you trying to divert attention to lurkers?

It's because when you flip red, you want us to think you were protecting lurkers. You're a lazy player, you're okay with dying because you didn't have enough time for this game anyway. The only reason you're bothering to defend yourself is because you feel bad about letting Puffy down. Ima fucking get you both.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

redbaron: Mafia know all identities even in Day 1, so we never needed to rely on anything to get townies lynched.

 

[redbaron]

you're playing Armchair Mafia Critic, poking holes and arguing around the gaps in what Hadoblado and I are doing after the fact.

Adding to this:

Say we ended up lynching a lurker who ended up flipping as Town. Would you still be sitting here telling us that our strategy stinks?

I gunned for ruminator, but it didn't gather enough support. I'm still gunning for ruminator right now - she's got my current vote: so just what are you talking about?

 

[Hadoblado]

Dammit RB I trusted you.

JK we're all good. I love you man.

It looks bad to these guys though. I'll let you defend yourself.

 

[redbaron]

redbaron: Mafia know all identities even in Day 1, so we never needed to rely on anything to get townies lynched.

Made in response to your hypothetical scenario that we're both mafia. Is this actually your play?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

The words speak for themselves.

 

[redbaron]

At the very least, you're now arguing suspicions based on the content of my posts instead of playing Armchair Mafia Critic.

Now that you've "got" me why don't you start explaining where you're going with this? Am I mafia leading Hado? Is it both of us? Do you really think people are going to rally around you because I used the word, "we" in place of, "they"?

For what it's worth, I really wanted to have my first experience of this game as a mafioso and I'm going to be eternally bummed out that it wasn't.

 

[Hadoblado]

It's the only play available to him, though admittedly, if he were town he'd do it too.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

At the very least, you're now arguing suspicions based on the content of my posts instead of playing Armchair Mafia Critic.

Now that you've "got" me why don't you start explaining where you're going with this? Am I mafia leading Hado? Is it both of us? Do you really think people are going to rally around you because I used the word, "we" in place of, "they"?

For what it's worth, I really wanted to have my first experience of this game as a mafioso and I'm going to be eternally bummed out that it wasn't.

I'm not arguing anything. It's you who slipped up. I want to know why we should think you're town.

 

[redbaron]

It's the only play available to him, though admittedly, if he were town he'd do it too.

I know, I'd do it myself.

What I'd do as Town though, is start building a plausible case around it to exemplify why the supposed slip isn't just a slip, and actually links up with other things said or done to highlight why I'm scum.

He's got a single sentence in a literal ocean of content. He's either mafia or he's by far the worst Townie in this entire game.

 

[redbaron]

I'm not arguing anything. It's you who slipped up. I want to know why we should think you're town.

No. I'm possibly the most active poster in this entire thread, there's literally mountains of evidence for me being Town.

Moreover, I really want to see who jumps on this bandwagon with you.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

hado + redbaron that's 2/3. Neb is likely suspect.

If anyone considers me scum you still have 2 more players to account for out of 10. There isn't anyone else to be likely scum as much as you two.

 

[redbaron]

ESC your job as a Townie is to build a case against people, to convince others to get lynched. If you're as certain that I'm mafia as you sound, why are you just placidly hoping that everyone else will be as unforgiving as you and jump on this bandwagon.

I mean, you're starting to seem really sure that I'm mafia, but you're just sitting there saying, "I don't need to argue anything."

Again: you're either mafia or an absolute hindrance to this town.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

If I'm town, I'm town period. Then who is scum and why are 7/10 players lurking?

 

[Hadoblado]

Agreed.

For everyone else:

Your numbers are wrong. It's not 25%, because you're not counting the fact you know that you're not mafia. I'd point the finger here, but I don't believe that kind of parapraxis is reliable enough.

This is me saying I don't think that parapraxis, or Freudian slips, are good enough earlier in the game. Again to RB. He may be clever but my lord he's clumsy XD

If you think that I'm town, and you think that I'm competent, you also believe that a competent town doesn't think parapraxis is legit evidence. The alternative is that both RB and I are mafia, which you can evaluate on its own merits. There is no middle ground, either RB and I are both mafia, or this parapraxis is thought by a competent and experienced townie to not mean anything. It's a terrible mistake to make, but it does happen as town. EyeSeeCold is going to inflate this, and Puffy will say that it's suspicious but not necessarily decisive, taking no strong stance.

 

[QuickTwist]

Hol' up. Outside content is permitted? Didn't think we could do that since it isn't allowed the other way around.

Technically you're not even suppose to talk about the game outside of the game thread. This was stated in the rules. I should Modkill you for doing this, since it is strictly forbidden to do, but this is your first game. Don't let it happen again.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Technically you're not even suppose to talk about the game outside of the game thread. This was stated in the rules. I should Modkill you for doing this, since it is strictly forbidden to do, but this is your first game. Don't let it happen again.

Who are you talking to? That wasn't a game post. I posted in ruminator's thread about INTJs and what my views on murder/killing was.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

like for shit rb, you're telling esc to build a case against you if he's going to accuse you
i speak my mind and explain with solid proof why i think there is no way both of you are scum and you accuse me of pandering you?

and about nebulous...idk i just dont sense any calculation in her posts, she just posts whatever she thinks and so far it has all been very town-like behaviour...i dont have strong case on this one obviously, that's why i said "then nebulous". all i have is a very strong gut feeling. so ofcourse i'd be reluctant to vote

 

[Hadoblado]

Wait, QT, it was me that posted outside content. Not from a QT, from the forum.

Can you quote me where it's expressly forbidden? I've always played where the only thing you're not allowed to do is post from your QT. I figured that since everyone else has access to this forum, there's no way it could be wrong to post from here. I could easily circumvent such a rule by giving people instructions to look it up for themselves.

 

[Hadoblado]

@Zerkalo
It's expected that active scum role with the momentum of established town. They know it'd put a whole lot of attention on them if they did enough to halt established town momentum.

See: Puffy

 

[Hadoblado]

EBWOP
@QT
I think there's some confusion. I don't think anyone's broken a rule. I was using an unrelated post of ESC's to evidence him being more competent than he comes across as here. Nobody posted from QTs, or talked about the game outside of the game.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

let it be noted that i didnt eliminate the possibility that ONE of you could be scum, i just have no thread to pursue this line of thought rn tho so im letting it drop for now.
1st day's lynch happened mostly because you pressured people into voting, it doesnt make sense that you would make your lives more difficult by making people vote for him if you were both mafia and knew cheese was town

 

[redbaron]

like for shit rb, you're telling esc to build a case against you if he's going to accuse you
i speak my mind and explain with solid proof why i think there is no way both of you are scum and you accuse me of pandering you?

Of course you would and that's exactly what I'd expect any scum to do: to protest without really disagreeing with me. The mafia are always in a precarious position and it doesn't look good if they start arguing with people who are practically confirmed Town.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

so whatever i say you, will find a way to interpret it as scum behaviouer lol bye

 

[redbaron]

let it be noted that i didnt eliminate the possibility that ONE of you could be scum, i just have no thread to pursue this line of thought rn tho so im letting it drop for now.

Are you searching for a thread to pursue?

If you're not going on this thread, who are your actual mafia reads? So far you've told me 3 people you think are Town and no one who you think is mafia.

This is very anti-town behaviour, because you're not giving them anything to work off when it comes to voting, since all it does is sew even more confusion about who to actually vote for.

Why are you doing that?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

ESC your job as a Townie is to build a case against people, to convince others to get lynched. /QUOTE]

Ok scum. Tell me why in the first round you and hado were the first to vote Cheesypoofs, then as hado voted for neb you followed suit. Only to jump back on the Cheesy train with hado?

 

[Hadoblado]

@Town

On RB
I acknowledge that you guys need to consider the case against RB. Please see my argument above for why it's not legitimate cause for suspicion, or, at least, it's not cause enough for suspicion of equivelent magnitude to that which ESC warrants.

I am 100% confident of RB's townliness, and I don't want to waste time with everyone second guessing.

On threatened modkill
Don't worry about it, I'm pretty confident nobody did anything wrong, and think about a modkill is attention that could be productively focused on hunting scum.

On lynching
For those of you that still doubt the necessity of lynching, see this:

And I'll extend this question to everyone else who doesn't think we need to lynch. How are you wanting to win if we don't lynch? What's your game plan.? Because the only alternative is to die slow. I'm fucking done entertaining this conversation. If you don't get it after you've responded to this, you're red. It's unintuitive, but if you don't get it after 60 hours, you're dead to me. I can't possibly be expected to tell the difference between someone that dense, and someone playing coy.

Ignore my impatience, but I do need you to consider what alternatives we have to lynching. It looks bad that we failed to lynch scum day one, and I expect town to lose some momentum as a result. But the only way is forward, you can't make an omelette without at least risking breaking a few eggs. It's natural to have your reservations and your suspicions, but if you don't have an alternative you need to get behind me in this one. We lynch people and hope we land mafia, or we definitely lose.

I'm taking some defensive actions because I'm genuinely concerned about town losing what momentum it has. We need to address these things and move on. When you're satisfied, I'm super-confident we can win this.

 

[redbaron]

so whatever i say you, will find a way to interpret it as scum behaviouer lol bye

Right now and so far in this entire game, the only suspicion or accusation that you've hinted at in your entire posting history is artsu and cheeseumpuffs - Cheesumpuffs turned out to be confirmed town and Artsu is a completely safe bet since:
1. he's barely even active and
2. the established town modus operandi was already: let's hunt some lurkers!

Your reluctance to vote Nebulous might be explained - if she comes up confirmed Town. As of right now, she's not.

 

[QuickTwist]

Who are you talking to? That wasn't a game post. I posted in ruminator's thread about INTJs and what my views on murder/killing was.

Wait, QT, it was me that posted outside content. Not from a QT, from the forum.

Can you quote me where it's expressly forbidden? I've always played where the only thing you're not allowed to do is post from your QT. I figured that since everyone else has access to this forum, there's no way it could be wrong to post from here. I could easily circumvent such a rule by giving people instructions to look it up for themselves.

OK, this is good that it was just an error on my end. I thought EyeSeeCold was talking about the game outside the game.

And yes, Hado, you can use outside content ie. quotes from other threads and bring them into the game.

 

[redbaron]

ESC your job as a Townie is to build a case against people, to convince others to get lynched. /QUOTE]

Ok scum. Tell me why in the first round you and hado were the first to vote Cheesypoofs, then as hado voted for neb you followed suit. Only to jump back on the Cheesy train with hado?

You're literally distorting facts and playing God of the Gaps again.

When Cheesums made an analysis of Nebulous' voting patterns, I immediately suspected that either Nebulous or Cheesums were mafia. I was the first person to vote for Nebulous, I didn't jump as a result of anyone.

On the other hand you're actually sitting here distorting facts and doing everything you can to divide the Town.

Also, you're only just now making a case against me after I indentified it as The Town Thing To Do. Up until this point you've showed no interest in making a real case or analysis of voting patterns - but suddenly now that it's a Town thing, you're doing it?

Could you be any more obvious scum?

 

[QuickTwist]

EBWOP
@QT
I think there's some confusion. I don't think anyone's broken a rule. I was using an unrelated post of ESC's to evidence him being more competent than he comes across as here. Nobody posted from QTs, or talked about the game outside of the game.

yes, I see that now. My fault. Eyes doesn't have a warning or anything at this point and you don't either.

 

[Hadoblado]

RB ignore Zerkalo for now.

Attention is being spread across too many fronts. We need to work more systematically or we can never hope to unify town under one vote. The waters just got dank ass murky.

So I'll cut you a deal, we focus on ESC now, if somehow he can do a single fking thing to look like a town, we can move on to zerkalo, and if Zerkalo seems green, then we can move to my read on Puffy. Deal?

Sorry Zerkalo, feel free to put up your arguments etc., it's a good thing. I don't want to stop you being active, I just need to reduce the amount of noise. I need to borrow RB XD

 

[Hadoblado]

ESC, you have our undivided attention.

Tell me, what is the alternative to lynching that gives town a chance at winning? You've made a lot of hustle and bustle about how wrong we are, but you see, you've failed to offer any other options. You know who like to offer token resistance to proactive attempts to win the game? Scum do.

So fucking answer the question alright? HOW DO TOWN WIN IF THEY DO NOT LYNCH? ANSWER IT AND STOP FUCKING DODGING.

You can't answer it, because you know that the answer is that there is no other option. And you know that admitting as much means that we can infer that you didn't really think that you were improving towns odds by resisting the push for a lynch. You were hurting them. Because you're scum.

Don't try and argue past me. Don't divert attention to RB in 23 foot flaming letters in the sky. Answer me.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

RB ignore Zerkalo for now.

Attention is being spread across too many fronts. We need to work more systematically or we can never hope to unify town under one vote. The waters just got dank ass murky.

So I'll cut you a deal, we focus on ESC now, if somehow he can do a single fking thing to look like a town, we can move on to zerkalo, and if Zerkalo seems green, then we can move to my read on Puffy. Deal?

Sorry Zerkalo, feel free to put up your arguments etc., it's a good thing. I don't want to stop you being active, I just need to reduce the amount of noise. I need to borrow RB XD

zerk isn't taking red's shit and now you want to call off the heat? That seems mighty suspicious of you.

This talk about unity from you and redmoron sounds more like you want to do as much as you can to keep zerk from realizing you're scum.

 

[redbaron]

I think I'm just going to save myself the headache and go with what you quoted just before.

And I'll extend this question to everyone else who doesn't think we need to lynch. How are you wanting to win if we don't lynch? What's your game plan.? Because the only alternative is to die slow. I'm fucking done entertaining this conversation. If you don't get it after you've responded to this, you're red. It's unintuitive, but if you don't get it after 60 hours, you're dead to me. I can't possibly be expected to tell the difference between someone that dense, and someone playing coy.

At this point, I can't disagree. Dumb Townie vs. Actual Mafia is impossible tell in the situation of being anti-lynching.

The problem is, I really do think ESC is just that bad of a Townie - and yet all the things that smell like Stupid Townie also smell like Actual Mafia at the same time. The problem is, there's too many fucking people doing this for all of them to be mafia.

If you're one of the townspeople playing the anti-lynching game. Fucking stop already. It's actually the dumbest thing ever. It's not a legitimate town-winning tactic AT ANY POINT OF THE GAME EVER. That's why I keep reading those of you doing it as REDREDREDREDRED.

The only explanations for it are that you just can't grasp the concept or that you're against town. I don't want to lynch useless townies though, I want to lynch actual mafia. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm really insulting your intelligence, but it's akin to playing in a basketball team with players who just refuse to ever pass the ball. It makes it 10x harder to actually win the game because not only is the other team doing all they can to make it hard to score, your own fucking team is throwing away good opportunities to score at the same time.

STOP. FUCKING. DOING. IT.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

On the other hand you're actually sitting here distorting facts and doing everything you can to divide the Town.

We still have 6 members who've yet to speak their minds so the only divide is between me and zerk vs you and red.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

EBWOP: me and zerk vs you and hado.

Sorry, I mixed you guys up. All scum looks the same to me.

 

[Hadoblado]

@RB
You've been here a while. Has EyeSeeCold ever struck you as incompetent. Personally I've never had much to do with him, but I got the sense he was respected, and never saw anything that might change my mind about this assessment.

I argue that the competence that ESC has on the forum is generalisable to Mafia. Just as you have grasped the fundamentals, ESC should at least be approaching grasping the fundamentals. He's not though.

And note that he's still dodging my question.

 

[Hadoblado]

And now he can't even defend himself properly because doing so would tip off his competence.

Be careful not to get a splinter on the barrel we have you firmly over. Nothing hurts more than a splinter.

 

[Hadoblado]

Once you're dead I'm coming for Puffy too. This isn't just you you're letting down, it's your most valuable scum buddy.

 

[Hadoblado]

EBWOP:
Because once you flip red the town will have all their suspicions of me put to rest. I will definitely have the momentum to get the next lynch done my way, which will be on Puffy.

 

[Hadoblado]

EBWOP: me and zerk vs you and hado.

Sorry, I mixed you guys up. All scum looks the same to me.

This is funny. Because it's not 2v2. It's 1v1v2.

Isn't it? Wait you don't mean...

 

[EyeSeeCold]

[/B]I don't want to lynch useless townies though, I want to lynch actual mafia.

Like when you hopped on the bandwagon to lynch Cheese whom I never suspected? If you want to lynch mafia do us all a favor and vote yourself. Or hado.

 

[redbaron]

I'm waiting for other people to post before I continue.

ESC's built his castle and he's not going to move it, because moving it would make it completely obvious that he's mafia. The only other reason for him to tunnel me is that he's an absolutely awful Townie.

As per this post, it's practically impossible to tell the difference. So I'm not going to bother. I still want to hear from Ruminator but as of right now I'm reading ESC at about 80% mafia, which is higher than her.

Unvote Ruminator
Vote EyeSeeCold

 

[redbaron]

This is funny. Because it's not 2v2. It's 1v1v2.

Isn't it? Wait you don't mean...

It's almost too good to be true. I'm just going to let it sit in the back of my head at the moment. I'm reading Zerkalo at about 40% mafia, higher than the 30% threshold (3/10 mafia left in the game) and it's just too easy to lump her into the same boat as ESC for making the same kind of paraplaxis that I did.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

If you vote me out you better have a solid case for your other two mafia picks cause we don't have many days left.

If you were smart you would save me for last while you uncover the other mafia while you still had time.