INTP Socializer's Remorse

[zephryi]

Ah, have you ever done that with your name? Horrible!

Not visually, but audibly? More often than I'd care to admit.

 

[Carnap]

lucazin,

sei. falo um pouco. mas tenho verganho do meo portugês... estudei-lo dois anos, é tudo...

gosto muito dos portugeses. estou em França, sou americana. Os franceses sao frios, arrogantes, etc. gosto de Lisboa, Sintra, é simpàtica.

( desculpe ... o meo nivel da lingua nao é bom )

bemvindo...

(ok, i really suck at portuguese)

 

[EditorOne]

"ok, i really suck at portuguese"


Thank God! I read it and thought I really sucked at Latin!

 

[Carnap]

lol ! I guess I'm not gonna ask you to do my translation if Cicero that's due thursday ! *awaits failure*

 

[lucazin]

lucazin,

sei. falo um pouco. mas tenho verganho do meo portugês... estudei-lo dois anos, é tudo...

gosto muito dos portugeses. estou em França, sou americana. Os franceses sao frios, arrogantes, etc. gosto de Lisboa, Sintra, é simpàtica.

( desculpe ... o meo nivel da lingua nao é bom )

bemvindo...

(ok, i really suck at portuguese)

I don't know why but I can't believe when I see someone speaking Portuguese and isn't a native speaker. I think my Portuguese teachers make me hate so much it that I have a few difficulties figuring out why someone would want to learn it. But I began to chance my head since I've came to Portugal.

Your Portuguese isn't so bad, instead of my French (that I studied for two years) and is horrible.

Je aller trois fois à France, un fois je aller à plus villes comme Bruxellas, Tours, Nimês, dois fois étions au le Nueve Année à Paris, ce été três belle. Malheureusement (?) je n'aller pas au États-Unis, mais moi beau-père était dans New York par dois heures, il ammé.

Merci

(French...)

 

[Ghost1986]

i come and post for a bit then leave for a week because i feel i posted too much.

 

[Venture]

I used to have this very much as well, now I try to plan my conversations in advanced even though I know that it won't happen like I think.
I will think about what I will say over and over again in my head and when I talk to that person I never bring it up but usally I forget about what I was thinking about saying to them.

 

[sagewolf]

I do that quite a lot, and it pretty much socially cripples me. Every time I think of having a conversation, I paralyse myself before I even say a word by thinking of everything I could say and everything that could be talked about-- I have no idea of how to initiate small talk with someone. I have a hang-up that everything I say has to be either stunningly witty or dazzlingly profound. Generally, I say nothing. FAIL.

I had a lucky conversation with a friend on Friday, though, that my Ti, if it were to evaluate it deeply, would call moronic. (It was about going to my year's Graduation party and what colleges we were going to next year, and she also dragged me into some conversation about hairstyles.) Normally I would think I'd been an idiot, but it was surprisingly easy to let my Ne take control of the conversation at the time, then to simply let it go afterwards. It was fun, too: I need to learn the hang of that.

 

[truthseeker72]

I do that quite a lot, and it pretty much socially cripples me. Every time I think of having a conversation, I paralyse myself before I even say a word by thinking of everything I could say and everything that could be talked about-- I have no idea of how to initiate small talk with someone. I have a hang-up that everything I say has to be either stunningly witty or dazzlingly profound. Generally, I say nothing. FAIL.

I completely understand. Trying to be profound and/or witty all the time is so exhausting!

 

[dents]

I used to have this very much as well, now I try to plan my conversations in advanced even though I know that it won't happen like I think.
I will think about what I will say over and over again in my head and when I talk to that person I never bring it up but usally I forget about what I was thinking about saying to them.

+1, me too. Except I find that having thought about it before helps me at least stay on track with the conversation. Otherwise I'm more likely to trail off or lose track of what is going on because I'm too busy analyzing everything they are saying/doing.

 

[sybyll]

I, too, do this all of the time. And then sometimes I think I said something in such a stupid way that I'll try to explain, (much) later. It goes something like this:

Me: "You know that conversation we had X weeks/months/years ago?"

Other person is quiet.

Me: "Well, what I really meant was this... (insert what I should have said here)"

Other person: "I don't remember that / What are you talking about?"

 

[snowqueen]

I, too, do this all of the time. And then sometimes I think I said something in such a stupid way that I'll try to explain, (much) later. It goes something like this:

Me: "You know that conversation we had X weeks/months/years ago?"

Other person is quiet.

Me: "Well, what I really meant was this... (insert what I should have said here)"

Other person: "I don't remember that / What are you talking about?"

This is why I so love this forum!! I am not the only one!

 

[Felan]

I suffer Socializer's Remorse as well. Comfort in not being alone I suppose though it doesn't really dispel the sensation.

 

[Ermine]

I, too, do this all of the time. And then sometimes I think I said something in such a stupid way that I'll try to explain, (much) later. It goes something like this:

Me: "You know that conversation we had X weeks/months/years ago?"

Other person is quiet.

Me: "Well, what I really meant was this... (insert what I should have said here)"

Other person: "I don't remember that / What are you talking about?"

I hate it when that happens! While INTPs tend to have socializer's remorse, many socialites have socializers amnesia. Sad.

 

[Toad]

I have to constantly remind myself that when I say something I think is stupid that others probably don't think it was that stupid and they will not think about what I said as much as I do.

 

[sagewolf]

I hate it when that happens! While INTPs tend to have socializer's remorse, many socialites have socializers amnesia. Sad.

Maybe it's that we're talking for the sake of exchanging/refining our ideas, and they're talking for the sake of... well, talking, and bonding with the other person. Which we find completely alien. I've thought on occasion, "I would like to correct myself because I've refined my ideas since I said X, but I can barely remember who I said it to because it was before Halloween break, and I know that whoever they are, they won't remember it, so I won't bother."

 

[Waterstiller]

It seems like whenever I'm having an enjoyable time enough to lose myself and speak freely I'll completely analyze everything I said while in the car by myself. By the time I'm back home I'm feeling sick to my stomach that I'm a complete fool.


I also write out long posts and PM's end up never hitting submit. Or I'll edit a long post down to a snarky two sentences that I'm relatively sure about.

 

[Razare]

I do the same waterstiller.

I nearly closed the page without posting this because it's sort of irrelevant.

 

[Thaklaar]

I used to have this very much as well, now I try to plan my conversations in advanced even though I know that it won't happen like I think.
I will think about what I will say over and over again in my head and when I talk to that person I never bring it up but usally I forget about what I was thinking about saying to them.

I strongly tend to do this but I have to force myself not to. I can have a nasty stutter and thinking too much about what I'm going to say exacerbates it. The upshot is that it forces me to at least seem a bit less painfully introverted than I actually am.

 

[cheese]

I used to have this problem but it has lessened a lot over time. It's interesting both relating to this and knowing I am quite far removed from it now.

It disturbs me. I would much rather be miserable like you people. I feel shallow and disgusting.

I don't know if I agree with any of this. At least my Pness will never leave me!

- strokes Pness fondly -

Oops, that's turning it into a J.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I used to have this very much as well, now I try to plan my conversations in advanced even though I know that it won't happen like I think.
I will think about what I will say over and over again in my head and when I talk to that person I never bring it up but usally I forget about what I was thinking about saying to them.

It gets a little ridiculous, doesn't it? I used to spend so much time planning out conversations that I had little time to do anything else. Obsessive, I would call it. Then the conversations never went as I planned and I thought, "I am so clueless as to how real conversations go. How can I be a writer when I don't comprehend how people converse?"

Either that, or I say what I intended and it sounds so disgustingly rehearsed and cheesy to me I never want to speak to that person ever again. And that's when the post-conversation internal commentary comes into play.

I find I do best when I can interview. If the person is interesting enough to me (or they do something interesting), I can ask them all about it, with little need to disclose about myself.

I was talking to someone the other night. He found out I was writing a novel. He asked what it was about. I guess that is a normal thing to ask, but it always throws me and I hate to answer it. I'd say that goes for about anything in my life, though. I don't like answering personal questions. But I am happy to interview.

 

[Toad]

The only time I plan out conversations is when I'm making a phone call or if I'm doing business.

 

[Tyria]

I try to make the other person feel relaxed. Planning out chit chat is too difficult; it is easier to use intuition to follow what the other person is saying and bring it back if you need more to talk about.

 

[Gluon the Ferengi]

I am just not quick and astute enough to figure everything out in a conversation happening in real time.
It's after I've had a conversation, that I'll suddenly realize how I obviously failed to read between the lines or that I angered or upset someone without realizing it.
If someone has been rude to me, I generally avoid conflict--but not long after, all sorts of clever replies will come to me minutes or even hours after the fact.
I can generally piece everything together, but proper analysis takes time.
I think a key difference is that social interaction takes place on the conscious level for me while for most people it takes place on an instinctual/intuitive level.

A regular person might have a hunch someone is lying to them. I end up at the point of near certainty when I replay and analyze body language and facial cues.

If someone brings up a topic in conversation I tend to put thought into the matter. The result seems to be that I am always a couple topics behind. I've gotten blank stares from people when I add another comment to a subject that's by everyone's tacit consent but mine been laid to rest. I have to consciously remember that most people talk to fill up empty space and that they aren't thinking so much about what they're saying.

I always think about the things I could have said and play in my head what the other person's response might have been.

On the morning after, I have been beset by remorse.
-That I spent so much time talking with people for whom talk is an end to itself.
-That all my mistakes are obvious now that I can look back
-That I could do it so much better if I could just reload a saved game and try it again.

 

[Waterstiller]

-That I could do it so much better if I could just reload a saved game and try it again.

When I'm playing a game I will often replay a part until I can perfect it (without loss of resources). Over and over again until it's well enough. It's very revealing when brought up here. Why can't we just play the game, forget about the score, and who cares if we run out of bullets/lives? Other people are playing for fun without such fear of dying or needing to be a perfectionist.

 

[GYX_Kid]

We might care that much how ourselves are seen by others, but other people really don't, at least to the degree that they play your action over in their heads repeatedly.

And if they do, they're probably really interested in you.

(This is encouragement)




Plus, any "mistake" can be made up for if you happen to come off a little wrong...this actually might be easier with judgers in some ways, since they're used to having their judgements flipped by new information.

Unless you like, kill someone's baby or something, and try to redeem yourself.




Is a weak Fe the culprit for this flavor of social insecurity (this topic in general)?

Anyway, my opinion is that playing something over can be good for learning how to do it better next time...if there is a next time, otherwise regretful despair happens. There's usually a next time, most situations aren't a complete one-in-lifetime chance.

 

[tepellian]

I'm kind of stunned..

I've always had socialization "remorse" like this. I come up with things off the top of my head in conversation, then I'll go back and rethink them over and over to see whether I could've/should've expressed myself differently, whether the other person understood what I was trying to get across, what sparked the reaction of the other person if there was one, what the other person really thought, etc. so on and so forth, my thought process goes on awhile. Sometimes I end up at the point where I'm sorry I had the conversation in the first place.

I can use logs online to bring up old conversations and rework or add to old ideas, but it's usually too awkward in verbal conversations I've had with people.

Before just now I hadn't bothered to reason out this weirdness, it was just a mode of thought I'd get trapped in. Thanks for jarring me into greater awareness and understanding of it. /wanders off to ponder

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I often get surges of emotions after what I judged to be either a very poor or very good encounter. I am not systematised enough to know what specific things I did during the conversation.

 

[GYX_Kid]

I've always had socialization "remorse" like this. I come up with things off the top of my head in conversation, then I'll go back and rethink them over and over to see whether I could've/should've expressed myself differently, whether the other person understood what I was trying to get across, what sparked the reaction of the other person if there was one, what the other person really thought, etc. so on and so forth, my thought process goes on awhile. Sometimes I end up at the point where I'm sorry I had the conversation in the first place.

Why regret having the conversation? Unless it caused events to occur which irreversibly damaged something... I find if anything is regrettable, it's having a missed opportunity or incomplete endeavor, not a swing-and-miss that enhances your practice anyway

I often get surges of emotions after what I judged to be either a very poor or very good encounter. I am not systematised enough to know what specific things I did during the conversation.

More reason to try harder to give encounters with INFJs a "charge"? xP

 

[tepellian]

Why regret having the conversation? Unless it caused events to occur which irreversibly damaged something... I find if anything is regrettable, it's having a missed opportunity or incomplete endeavor, not a swing-and-miss that enhances your practice anyway

Sometimes it seems like I wasted my thinking on a conversation if the other person didn't really care, unless I started it knowing that it would be that way. That's not really true, of course, I get a lot out of it for myself, but it kind of makes me regret extending myself to socialize at all. I can do it all in my head. Well, mostly. :-P

 

[Tyr]

Most interesting. All of these are me. However, having a knowledge that most people don't think like I do (personality types,) has removed some of the anxiety...I'll simply think "Oh, they don't notice things like that...what I said will just come across as X, " or "Because they don't know this, they won't think that." Plus I have started leaning much more on my Extroverted Intuition during conversations, and it helps immensely. On this forum is I think is where I still feel it the most, as you all think as I do.

 

[digital angel]

Many of us figured out a long time ago we might as well just accept that we are misunderstood most of the time and understood in here to the point where we have no secrets. And then we just get on with it, eager to see what's going to happen next.

So true.

 

[Jelly Rev]

I've suffered from this extensively...it has destroyed quite a few relationships.

Its such a horrible guilt, and not many other people understand it. Even if what was said was correct doing something like hurting their feelings is so unnesscary and brings guilt.
I'm wondering what causes this??

Lately as my social skills have significantly increased mainly by understanding that the simpler the convo the better the convo.

Ive became extremely liked at parties for just being the guy who yells random phrases and repeating them. Its like the guy who yells AMERICA!!. I find it quite fanscinating that doing simple things like this does soo much. Now I have been having the problem of when I can see people's opinion change bc of what I said. Like I have some power over them, its not a good feeling and Im now dealing with this problem more than socializers remorse.

 

[myexplodingcat]

I tend to say things sometimes without thinking them through: Ne gets some 'brilliant' idea, E blurts it out. Ti later analyzes and then I get this remorseful feeling that you speak of.

YES. I do this all the time on forums, and the INTPs and INTJs tend to jump on me for putting out an unrefined idea because they maybe think it's the refined version or something, I don't know. But I do it anyway, mostly because if I think about it too long, I'll forget what my idea was in the first place.

I'll be talking to a friend describing something, and I'll come up with metaphors and try to relate what I'm saying to something else to get the point across, then the next day I'll think about what I said and realize I didn't describe it quite right and get the urge to tell her that I "lied" and this is how it really is.

And the spelling/definition thing? Same. Does anyone else ever manage to stare at a word while trying to decide whether it's spelled right or not to the point where it looks like gibberish and end up having to look it up anyways?

Yes!

Os franceses sao frios, arrogantes, etc.

Hey! Be nice. I know a French person through my MMORPG guild,* and he's cool. Anyway, I've heard the Northern French are nicer than the snooty brand.

...But I began to chance my head since I've came to Portugal.

Je aller trois fois à France, un fois je aller à plus villes comme Bruxellas, Tours, Nimês, dois fois étions au le Nueve Année à Paris, ce été três belle. Malheureusement (?) je n'aller pas au États-Unis, mais moi beau-père était dans New York par dois heures, il ammé.

Merci

(French...)

I think the expression you're looking for is "change my mind." It's a good one to know.

Your French isn't as bad as you say (and neither is your English), although I can't say too much because I've only studied French for a year and a half, but I'm taking classes now, so it's more recent.

Anyway, I'd better stop before this gets ridiculously long.

*Anyone playing Shakes & Fidget who doesn't have a guild... mail Etaren. Raenyr is a really cool guild with lots of people from around the world. Don't worry, they speak English!

 

[myexplodingcat]

I had a lucky conversation with a friend on Friday, though, that my Ti, if it were to evaluate it deeply, would call moronic. (It was about going to my year's Graduation party and what colleges we were going to next year, and she also dragged me into some conversation about hairstyles.) Normally I would think I'd been an idiot, but it was surprisingly easy to let my Ne take control of the conversation at the time, then to simply let it go afterwards. It was fun, too: I need to learn the hang of that.

Hello.


...


Did I make you blush yet?

 

[Trebuchet]

And the spelling/definition thing? Same. Does anyone else ever manage to stare at a word while trying to decide whether it's spelled right or not to the point where it looks like gibberish and end up having to look it up anyways?

Oh, yes, semantic satiation. What an odd phenomenon.

Of course I second-guess myself after every conversation, comment, or post. It gets old after a while. Looks like INTPs in general do this, but ... do other types? Surely they worry about putting their foot in it, too.

 

[Jelly Rev]

some INFX's do but ive asked various types mainly SJ's and this is not an issue for them. Instead they will back up w.e. they said even if they cant remember what it was. Sticking with their guns is more important than listening to new ideas. when trying to convince these people...most ppl you must lead them to the conclusion letting them think they thought of it all by themselves so their defense mechanisms dont activate.

 

[shortbuss]

I have an idea on how to improve this "socializer's remorse". I think the most critical elements of INTP nature that contribute to this feeling most are our Introverted and Thinking sides. I would argue that people with higher levels of I or T might experience this most strongly.

I think the problem starts with our introversion. Introversion gets us thinking inwardly. Our thoughts are not checked by others, and thus, are subject to our own biases and preconceived perceptions of ourselves. We try to solve our social problems by thinking, but our biases tend to lead us toward self-deprecating conclusions since it is common for people to be hard on themselves. Our thoughts in turn, do the exact opposite of what we set them out to do- they belittle our self-worth and make it harder to socialize.

The solution is refuse excessive thought in social situations. Try to dilute unnecessary thought. Thinking about how you are being perceived is unnecessary thought, because you will never know, and thus it is pointless to go down this tangent. Try to make mental connections to things the person is saying to your own life-experiences. Focus on listening to the other person to obstruct unnecessary thought. This helps alleviate self-consciousness while building rapport. It's a win-win strategy.

just thoughts. i could be totally wrong.

 

[rattymat]

I have this as well OP. It is likely ant INTP trait, stemming from our intensive consideration for things. Such consideration does not fall short in the area of our personal social situations. I consider this consideration, even in personal matters, to be a wonderful thing, at times. There is a limit, however, and when one over-analyzes, they come to see the faults. This aspect to analyzation when tied with social interactions can cause insecurity with one's actions. I consider your behavior, its appropriateness, wit, and if it relates well to the person/s engaged in the interaction. Because of of our introversion, we aren't naturally comfortable in social situations. This discomfort can cause cause us to act unnaturally, further contributing to our insecurity with how we have behaved in the aftermath.
It helps to try and relax, and in some sense lose that overly-critical nature we usually apply in life, and to simply be more within moment. Interaction with fast-pace, the more people involved, the more stimuli the be interpreted. This is why I do not like larger groups too much as I find them rather overwhelming. I can easily sit and watch these interactions happen and grasp them rather well, but attempting to act in these situation is a tricky integration. I would rather be active in small groups, that feel much more manageable.

 

[Nawyrus]

I have this kind of remorse too, I analyze everything I've said and almost always end up feeling stupid. Another face of the same regret occurs when I socialize too much, which by my standards is ridiculously low, I start to feel as a betrayer of ideals, as a facade, as a misfit, and this always works as a fuel to my getaway.

 

[pjoa09]

I get the kind where I realise that I pretty much talked to a bunch of people who don't matter and I am never going to see.

 

[shortbuss]

You described the way I think about socializing to a 'T'. This, among other things, contributed to my social anxiety troubles. I have learned the best way to enjoy socializing is to tell yourself NOT to think whenever you catch yourself over-thinking during social situations. When the affair is over try and be kind to yourself in reflection, and look for moments where you were doing well. Also, I have to remind myself that silence is normal, and if i have nothing to say there is no reason to speak.

 

[amthcaictm]

"You are only predictable to us. The rest of the world probably finds you, let's see, aloof, inscrutable and occasionally condescending, even if you haven't said a word to anyone for seven days in a row. "---the funniest thing i have read in days m. editor.

thank you all for these posts. as my intp social dysfunction is often the source of shame and amusement i SOOOOO identify with many of the comments here. over the years i have learned to comfort myself with the inescapablility of failure--- i cannot plot/think my way through a social situation no matter how hard i try --- i'm missing an innate ability to read all the non-verbal clues, don't have that instinctive sense of the social norm and will fail to articulate the 400 ill-considered thought steams in my head in a manner suitable for the listener. my faux pas often make me laugh and what do we love more as intps than to be entertained? so shame i'm ok with. but i do hate it when i injure others ---and unfortunately as an intp were talking sins of comission and omission. my question is why can't we keep our heads down like the on ther nice INs? it it just me with the poor social filter or does curiosity/ boredom cause the rest of you to engage social interaction when you don't really want to and should more wisely discuss the weather or better yet walk away. also clearly some of this impulse to engage is preemptive because we are also punished for not engaging. why can't i exercise my mind in quiet contemplation like in inTJs...and how do they pull off their reserve in a manner so less offensive to the general public?

(babbling mouth emoticon)

 

[Mr.Burke]

I get that feeling, so what I do instead is be abrasive enough so that other people isolate me as opposed to myself. That way I can play it off as other people being the problem.

See? Works out perfectly.

 

[rattymat]

Yeah Op, I have this to some degree. Most noticeably I experience it with tumblr blogs I post. I will write a post on thoughts I've had and then at some point after words I feel filled with doubt over the accuracy of my own words. They never seem to fully represent my thoughts and appear over-simplified. This creates the image that I am naive, and this image makes me wish I could delete it, and often I do end up deleting posts. I attribute this to the incompleteness of all my thoughts. My thoughts are transient and are part of a process of cultivating ideas and expanding them through more learning, so no thought that I communicate ever seems to perfectly represent me or my relationship to the thoughts.

 

[pjoa09]

Yeah Op, I have this to some degree. Most noticeably I experience it with tumblr blogs I post. I will write a post on thoughts I've had and then at some point after words I feel filled with doubt over the accuracy of my own words. They never seem to fully represent my thoughts and appear over-simplified. This creates the image that I am naive, and this image makes me wish I could delete it, and often I do end up deleting posts. I attribute this to the incompleteness of all my thoughts. My thoughts are transient and are part of a process of cultivating ideas and expanding them through more learning, so no thought that I communicate ever seems to perfectly represent me or my relationship to the thoughts.

I checked mine, mine are okay. My thoughts are still the same more or less. But you should appreciate them. It is a timeline of developing thoughts and expressions.