Hating people for their ignorance

[QuickTwist]

The problem is not ignorance. the problem is people clinging to ideas that don't matter and not accepting new ideas. That is the problem. And I think you would be surprised just how many people would be willing to accept new information and let go of ill-information.

 

[TheManBeyond]

The other day some girl i know was having trouble to guide us to some bar. she supposedly had been there quite a few times so we were just following. Once apparently there, she said she was so sorry cause the bar wasn't there, and that she guide us in the complete opposite direction.
Next thing, visible embarrasment and she said she felt bad for doing this. My response was don't worry everything is fine, we'll find it. I want to remark that she was fucking visibly embarrrased. So we returned to a central spot and then she asked me for my phone to use google maps and find it.
She said, this way ----> finger pointing. I took the phone and because of the shape of the square in the maps i told her no, it was in the opposite direction. So she was once again embarrased. Remark it.

Later in the night i said something that was apparently not accurate (i don't remember what we were talking about), in the sense that i wasn't sure and just guessed it, for the sake of participating in the conversation, i noticed how bad she took it, like "you are saying something wrong, you don't bring accurate facts to the table" and next thing by body language comprehension (or incomprehension) i understood i was out of the conversation and of her consideration, at least for that small talk. But these facts had no reasoning behind, in fact they might have been a cool guess but i don't care to see it. I'm exagerating the situation for the sake of the message.

People have to stop being afraid of making faults or being apparently irrational, within certain borders, we are not letting out all the power we have within ourselves.
People need to listen more and see things from different perspectives, people need to stop thinking so much of the image they give to others.
Everyone has something to offer in each situation and like nanook said, stop screaming your kids when they try to jump out of the window, instead push them to draw more airplanes.
You have to keep a positive attitude and transform hate into love for the sake of humanity, i think that's what we've been trying to do for a while.
The future should be better.

 

[Grayman]

Really though...



...That is unless one's hate is continuously refined and routinely calibrated. If you shun your hate thinking it's an undeserved emotion, it will get no exercise and of course it will stay incompetent and keep bugging you in stupid immature directions. You will sit around hating someone because of his dialect or whatever while failing to pretend that this unjust emotion isn't occurring and it will all suck. On the other hand if you embrace, hone and practice your hate, it will grow stronger, it will stop giving a shit about someone's dialect and other entry-level disturbances and it can be aimed at real evils deserving strong opposition.

The world has many things for which hate is not only understandable, nor only acceptable, but rational and perhaps the only rational stance. One of these things is people who are wrong on the internet.

Hate is the catalyst of bullshit penetration. An absolute necessity. Life without hate would be pointless. I do agree that feeling unwarrented hate is suboptimal, but the solution isn't to feel bad about hating and try to stop hating, though. There are no reasonable things you can tell yourself to make the hate go away and become a robot. The solution is to grind the hate and give it some nice gear.

People who go out of their way to seem neutral and not dislike anything because it appears more intelligent... Well that's a characteristically immature Ti-dom thing tbh.

Are you a poster boy for the Sith recruitment agency?

 

[Tannhauser]

It wasn't rhetorical I mean seriously, how do you rid the world of ignorance? Do you have any idea how many people have no idea about Moore's law or any other number of concepts that the "common folk" have no idea about? Do you really think there are that many people who have no common sense (which is completely different than book smarts obviously)? At this point I don't know if your point is that people who are not educated are a problem to society or not. If you have a fanfreakingtastic idea on how to educate half the population of the world with things so that they are no longer ignorant I'm all ears...

Where have I claimed to have a plan for ridding the world of ignorance?

I believe my stance was pretty clear: I do not see the value in tolerating ignorance, I think it is counter-productive.

It's like if you see some kid getting bullied and you say "I will not tolerate that". Is your stance illegitimate until you have a plan for ridding the world of bullies?

 

[Tannhauser]

Really though...



...That is unless one's hate is continuously refined and routinely calibrated. If you shun your hate thinking it's an undeserved emotion, it will get no exercise and of course it will stay incompetent and keep bugging you in stupid immature directions. You will sit around hating someone because of his dialect or whatever while failing to pretend that this unjust emotion isn't occurring and it will all suck. On the other hand if you embrace, hone and practice your hate, it will grow stronger, it will stop giving a shit about someone's dialect and other entry-level disturbances and it can be aimed at real evils deserving strong opposition.

The world has many things for which hate is not only understandable, nor only acceptable, but rational and perhaps the only rational stance. One of these things is people who are wrong on the internet.

Hate is the catalyst of bullshit penetration. An absolute necessity. Life without hate would be pointless. I do agree that feeling unwarrented hate is suboptimal, but the solution isn't to feel bad about hating and try to stop hating, though. There are no reasonable things you can tell yourself to make the hate go away and become a robot. The solution is to grind the hate and give it some nice gear.

People who go out of their way to seem neutral and not dislike anything because it appears more intelligent... Well that's a characteristically immature Ti-dom thing tbh.

Beautiful post.

 

[QuickTwist]

Where have I claimed to have a plan for ridding the world of ignorance?

I believe my stance was pretty clear: I do not see the value in tolerating ignorance, I think it is counter-productive.

It's like if you see some kid getting bullied and you say "I will not tolerate that". Is your stance illegitimate until you have a plan for ridding the world of bullies?

Well, if i were to do something about that one bully I saw I guess I would be doing something to help the people out who are bullied, but IDK, maybe that's a streatch

 

[QuickTwist]

Beautiful post.

If you think you view things the same way Bronto does, I'm going to laugh.

 

[A_Scanner_Darkly]

Beautiful post.

Thought the same thing soon as I read it.

@Bronto takes the cake this thread...

sort of gathered the bits and pieces of the pro-hate camp's incomplete, disjoint musings and added the glue...

"pro-hate" lol

 

[Tannhauser]

If you think you view things the same way Bronto does, I'm going to laugh.

What he wrote about people being neutral for the purpose of coming off as intelligent was the realest shit written in this thread. Indeed, everyone is a goddamn monk when they can sit inside a Ti-bubble and philosophise. What about when you actually face the real consequences of ignorance head on?

If you see fraud, and don't shout "fraud", you are a fraud. -Taleb

 

[TheManBeyond]

^ the problem with pro hating is when it originates fanboys, and they become also automatic robots, with few cute words buzzing their heads as an excuse to have fun. At the end they are like those who like everything and take no positions for the sake of being percieved as part of the bohemian opendminess crew. No more heroes pliz.
If you understand this, then hate, cuz it'll spread love.

 

[QuickTwist]

What he wrote about people being neutral for the purpose of coming off as intelligent was the realest shit written in this thread. Indeed, everyone is a goddamn monk when they can sit inside a Ti-bubble and philosophise. What about when you actually face the real consequences of ignorance head on?

If you see fraud, and don't shout "fraud", you are a fraud. -Taleb

I'm not actually disagreeing with Bronto actually. But the premise to HATE people who are less knowledgeable is laughably silly.

 

[Kuu]

@Bronto, there is a difference between dissatisfaction / disagreement, confrontation, anger and hate.

Hate is pathological hostility. Unjustified anger. Out of control opposition.

Rejecting hatred does not mean not feeling anger, nor becoming a doormat.

I think you're using the word with a definition others aren't. Depending on your actual meaning I can agree or strongly disagree on your post.

 

[Tannhauser]

^ the problem with pro hating is when it originates fanboys, and they become also automatic robots, with few cute words buzzing their heads as an excuse to have fun. At the end they are like those who like everything and take no positions for the sake of being percieved as part of the bohemian opendminess crew. No more heroes pliz.
If you understand this, then hate, cuz it'll spread love.

What about the fact that the world is comprised of fanboys and haters? Tolerating ignorance while ignorance tolerates nothing is a losing game.

 

[QuickTwist]

What about the fact that the world is comprised of fanboys and haters? Tolerating ignorance while ignorance tolerates nothing is a losing game.

That is a completely different premise than outlayed in the OP. I think what you are really trying to pick a bone with is moral or ethical ignorance -which is a whole nother animal completely (and completely subjective as well).

 

[Kuu]

What about the fact that the world is comprised of fanboys and haters? Tolerating ignorance while ignorance tolerates nothing is a losing game.

Not tolerating something does not mean you have to hate it.

Hating ignorance is like fucking for virginity; being ignorant about dealing with ignorance.

You ignore how to resolve the thing you dislike, therefore the frustration eats away at your mind. Hatred has ignorance within it.

Ignorance is fought with acceptance and understanding.

 

[redbaron]

Hating ignorance is like fucking for virginity.

Well if you can come up with a better way of creating more virgins I'm all ears.

 

[TheManBeyond]

What about the fact that the world is comprised of fanboys and haters? Tolerating ignorance while ignorance tolerates nothing is a losing game.

i'm not saying you have to accept ignorance, but "to not tolerate" something sounds really dictatorial, one thing is to try to make minds rethink what they think they see and other is to eliminate the person complitely, forgeting he's a victim of the project of a few.
I agree with bronto, you have to use your hate creatively to change gears in ignorant's minds, but hate for the sake of it doesn't make sense.
Perfect example of this was last week in greece, near my place were taking place some fights between the anarchists and the police. I thought the whole thing was like a theater. I was with some friends drinking some beers and enjoying the show in a bar nearby, people came crying and coughin because of their own molotov cocktails, and gases and stuff.
Some friend of a friend got inside and told us they just managed to enter a supermarket near my house. Everyone was stealing food from it. It is an greek enterprise and apparently since it is a more or less known enterprise they could provide for free for the greek people, they can afford the loses of one night.
Now, they are not doing this because they have settle some viable plan of action. Most of them are probably just having fun with the excuse of some guy that was in fact really interested and well informed on the issue and managed to spread his word. Again, how many of those who were listening were in fact being critical about the theory and how many of them were just trying to belong somewhere? or just angry?, or following the other minor majority?.
Why destroy the whole neighbour making a lot of normal people like you spend their money in fixing their humble stores or just accepting the lose of stolen merchandise? It is your neighbour, it is your people and it's already a poor zone severely affected by the crisis.
What about associating and trying comunication to achieve deals for improving your condition?
nah....
Because they were told it's cool to hate.

 

[Tannhauser]

At this point I think I can only admit that I have no clue what I am talking about. A lot of interesting viewpoints to distil.

 

[Yellow]

Well if you can come up with a better way of creating more virgins I'm all ears.

Here you go

 

[EditorOne]

Ignorance can be corrected, it's a deficit of information. Stupidity is a different story, it's a deficit of capacity or ability.

"When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. It's only hard for other people."
"It's that way when you're stupid, too."

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

What he wrote about people being neutral for the purpose of coming off as intelligent was the realest shit written in this thread.

Eh...Bronto was reacting to what he perceived as an advocation of a rejection of "hatred" in general and not arguing your point at all.

I think Urakro and minuend did a great job demonstrating how presumptuous and limited a world view distilled according to classifications of people's perceived mental prowess can be

Hate is obviously just a projection. If your egoic self image is based on mental powers, you fear the possibility of being fallible and project the fear onto others, in the form of despising their supposed intellectual failures. Most likely they are not as stupid as you think they are and you are much more stupid than you think you are. (Relative not to other people but to the truth of whatever subject you are trying to understand)

 

[onesteptwostep]

I would say I don't exactly harbor hate on anyone for extended periods of time. There's an emotional aspect of hate that lingers just as a temporal emotion, but usually the humanity of the person redeems those ill-constructed traits. I often remind myself that everyone has a different upbringing, so I tend to have an extremely open perspective and try to hear them out before making any concrete judgement. In fact in some ways I value group-thought because it helps you navigate the social order.

I also think hate is a rather strong word. I resonate with the word 'intense dislike' more.

Also in someways, I don't think stupid people actually exist. They're probably people who haven't had the chance to enter civil dialogue in logical parameters. If you apply patience and care, most people do come around. This is why philosophy is so important..

"“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” – Yoda

The suffering is division.

 

[Inquisitor]

In my view, ignorance is the root of all misery and evil.

You just quoted Buddhist scripture, even if you didn't intend it. Replace "ignorance" with "delusion," a more appropriate word in my view. "Ignorance" implies lack of knowledge, but "delusion" indicates possession of wrong/harmful knowledge. Greed, hatred, and delusion together form a sort of Buddhist Anti-Christ. If left unchecked, these three have the capability of unleashing hell upon the whole world, and they frequently do.

Actually, MBTI has helped me appreciate the fact that it takes all types to build a successful, vibrant society. One solution is to bring back a sort of caste system. Not like the current modern, perverted one in India, but more in the spirit of educating and employing people based on type. Studying typology made me realize that every human being is basically sitting on a unique set of highly specialized and advanced innate capabilities. We need to exploit that to the maximum FTW. The functions act as motivations, but the environment/circumstances can prevent people from achieving their full potential. A racist hillbilly redneck asshole no matter how deluded, and no matter how low his IQ may be, is nevertheless capable of doing useful work in a certain domain. Making sure that he has the opportunity to follow through and develops those capabilities is of the utmost importance for him and for society as a whole.

 

[Kuu]

Well if you can come up with a better way of creating more virgins I'm all ears.

In-vitro fertilization and surrogates

 

[Death Wizard]

The Marching Morons anyone?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons#The_solution

 

[Brontosaurie]

@Bronto, there is a difference between dissatisfaction / disagreement, confrontation, anger and hate.

Hate is pathological hostility. Unjustified anger. Out of control opposition.

Rejecting hatred does not mean not feeling anger, nor becoming a doormat.

I think you're using the word with a definition others aren't. Depending on your actual meaning I can agree or strongly disagree on your post.

We seem to be using different definitions, and perhaps these definitions reflect our different viewpoints.

To me, hate is simply an intense target-locked hostility that tells you when it's time to cut the crap, when the lies are too thick, when language is incapable pf mediating a disagreement. As long as such circumstances really do exist, hate will not be an altogether pathological thing. I do agree that many people exhibit pathological, irrational hate, but not that this is all hate could be. Perhaps "anger" to you is "hate" to me but this doesn't seem to resolve our differences.

Without hate one is a pawn to discourse.

 

[Urakro]

The perspective that Bronto brings is interesting and valid. At least, from what I can infer, the people I have observed who don't shy from expressing feelings of mild disgust, disappointment, and anger seem to have an overall better feeling of themselves and are generally more happier than those who hold back and internalize it.

Still, to hate is not really enough for me. I'd try to dig deeper into what it is that really is causing me to be so aversive. What it is that I feel so threatened or offended by, and may look for alternate intentions. Though first I'll find a quiet place to settle down. Then at that point, I'm usually too late to take my draw.

If we're talking about hating ignorance in bigotry, that is something I have a hard time arguing against. Even then, I don't personalize it to the point of targeting the individual, I just aim my anger at the concept of it and it's consequences.

But I thought the OP mentioned people who talk about sandwiches. I like sandwiches. Usually ham or turkey with mustard, bonus if there was lettuce. I'll stick up for the sandwich people.

 

[Grayman]

1) Dislike -> Hatred -> The passion to destroy

2) Fear -> Frustration -> Anger -> The passion to protect


1) I wish there was less ignorance in the world. I hate ignorance and I want to get rid of it.

2) Ignorance that threatens people makes me afraid. Ignorance that continually hurts people makes me frustrated. Ignorance that destroys people makes me angry.

Anger is more reactive while hate is more likely to seek out.

The Positive(emotion) Focus: Mostly I destroy evil not because I hate evil but because when I love good evil gets in the way.

 

[Hadoblado]

I think it's important to differentiate between genuine ignorance and belligerent ignorance. The former is fine and easily remedied, but the latter is the bane of our species.

Bellignorance?

 

[Minuend]

There doesn't need be any contradiction between seeing the usefulness of hate, but not thinking it useful in terms of the type of people that is talked about in the OP. The word selection and description of those people set up how people were going to reply. Hating people for such will ofc seem foreign to a lot of people.

That doesn't mean hate can never be useful or serve a purpose (somewhat definition dependent). Personally I don't need the emotion hate to cut through BS in my life (anger/ annoyance is useful in some situations. Though, when I think about it, I'm probably more default apathetic to people in my life, so that might not be the case for most people).

However, if I lived in a more violent place where I would have to severely harm another person, then perhaps a little strong emotion would be useful when driving the dagger through. (Apart from the fact that I'd be dead long time ago). Hate could also be useful if you're trying to break free from a manipulative family which attempts to guilt you back into their hand. But these types of scenarios possibly including ignorant people were never assumed from me.

Generally, people seem able to make objective judgments when comparing upper arm strength, running speed, sexual prowess, wealth acquisition and management and the like.

Yes, some things are more easily measured than others, (not convinced all of those are good examples, however), and some things more dependent on individual perception than others.

Though, in the end I didn't make a statement about whether one could quantify ignorance or use that label, I was more talking about how every person does not have the whole story and will miss details and nuances because of unknown information and inability to read a person a 100%. At most I said that type of thinking could lead to an increased cognitive bias.

However, when the relative intelligence and knowledge of people are compared all of a sudden it is an issue of a sensitive nature and we most all turn the other cheek.

I've never said anything about automatically turning the other cheek. On the contrary I advocate violence or verbal objection when necessary. Neither have I said one should sit quietly and accept bad behaviors from others.

Making the objective observation that person A knows less and refuses to learn compared to person B does not correlate with Person A being inferior in all respects. Nor does being more informed suggest infallibility. The dichotomy of ignorance/non-ignorance does not reflect a judgement on a person wholly, but solely on cognitive function. I a sure many willfully ignorant people are Superior to me in many respects, like bouncing a ball around but I won't suppress my bitterness in feeling alone in spirit.

For some, yes, then again not for others. Though I never attempted to claim everyone who name other ignorant are single minded or that one should never use that phrase. Perhaps you drew some more general conclusions from my statement which was directed at one very specific behavior (zombies, mouth breathers = gregoryhouse), thinking I applied it to everything in equal regard.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Funny post , good job Bronto. Not sure how serious you were about it so:

If you shun your hate thinking it's an undeserved emotion, it will get no exercise and of course it will stay incompetent and keep bugging you in stupid immature directions.

Maybe it's something others can't cope with, but I don't feel hatred (save for rare, short lived instances of uncontrolled anger) and I think getting rid of negative emotions is key in developing my personality, I don't have any of those most of the time. Maybe a different person would have the issues you described.

People who go out of their way to seem neutral and not dislike anything because it appears more intelligent... Well that's a characteristically immature Ti-dom thing tbh.

I'm not sure about you or others, but I don't have strong feelings most of the time, it comes naturally, not because it's some kind of posture.

True, there are things wrong logically, morally or otherwise that can only be rejected and can't be allowed to gain ground in our lives, so I agree with the main idea of your post. But I think neutrality doesn't have to be a pretense, it can be a normal or even educated stance and it benefits people adhering to it.

There's a difference between justified and rational dislike or rejection and hatred which is a primitively destructive and response-limiting drive.

Without hate one is a pawn to discourse.

There's no need for hostility to end the discourse. I think ending interaction without the usual negativity allows for better conflict resolution, reduces damage and leaves more options open in the future.

 

[Analyzer]

"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant." —AMOS BRONSON ALCOTT.

I think it's good to be aware of ignorance and how it's a part of life. I guess you can hate people for it, but imagine if everyone believed that anything can be known or that perfect knowledge exists. Even if people don't really believe this, there actions say so. That's the main ingredient for omnipotent totalitarians who yearn for control.

 

[emmabobary]

"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant." —AMOS BRONSON ALCOTT.

I think it's good to be aware of ignorance and how it's a part of life. I guess you can hate people for it, but imagine if everyone believed that anything can be known or that perfect knowledge exists. Even if people don't really believe this, there actions say so. That's the main ingredient for omnipotent totalitarians who yearn for control.

THIS ^^
But more than the main ingredient for omnipotent totalitarians, ignorance is the soft spot of masses to be opressed and brainwashed. Ignorance is the beast to feed if you want servile crowds.
So actually if you are smart enough OP, ignorance should be a great ally to command these ignorant tropes you see.

What actually really upsets me is arrogance, and more if it´s mixed with ignorance. to me dealiang with this kind of people is like staring at a monkey with the intelligence of a rock wearing a crown and a red superman´s cape, peeing and shitting themselves, screaming that everyone should see how absolutely, desperately fabulous they think they are. It´s annoying to the point of being hilarious.

So in the end I actually don´t put o much attention to ignorants, and/or arrogants. They don´t shine in my eyes.

 

[Yellow]

They don´t shine in my eyes.

I really like this turn of phrase. Is it unique to you, or is it a somewhat cultural expression?

 

[emmabobary]

I really like this turn of phrase. Is it unique to you, or is it a somewhat cultural expression?

....
.....What?

I don´t know, I don´t think it´s a cultural expresion. Tough It doesn´t sound bad in spanish either.
"No brillan en mis ojos" o "No brillan a mis ojos"

I prefer the first one.

 

[Rualani]

I just feel depressed that there are so many unmet needs in the world, and so many people taking advantage of the fact. I think that mental acuity is a luxury which much of the world can't afford.