Vegetarianism and INTP

[Frecnhtosd]

hello.
this is my first thread.

and i just finished reading the entire "you know your and intp when"

that thread is perfect.

so anyways this thread is about being a vegetarian intp,i am a vegitarian, i was wondering if its common or not.... that's all.

im also kinda interested in knowing what everyone parent's personality type's are.
i asked my mom to take the test and she did.
my mom is. ISTJ which sucks!!!!! because we hate S's ....so yeah.

 

[Pythia]

I'm a vegetarian unless I'm offered meat.

My father is ISFJ, and my mom is ESFP.

We hate S's? My best friend is ESFP (just like my mom, yeah).

 

[nikkilmr]

I was for a year, I was strong about it from the humanitarian point of view over time though I lost my sense why I did it. I think about doing it again because It was a really healthy choice too but nothing makes me what to do it right now.

 

[JONTON]

I am apparently INTP and also vegetarian. Judging from the psychological profiles, it seems like it appeals to us to have a set of values to live our lives by rigidly, and vegetarianism makes a lot of decisions for you.

For one thing, you don't have to worry about eating unhealthily in a lot of instances (fried bacon, red meat, most fast food...), because eating meat is something you just don't do anyway.

I think it also appeals to my problem-solving bent. I have to be resourceful and creative to learn about cuisines and ingredients that are not so commonplace.

It's also extremely logical to me: once I stopped eating meat, I could admit gladly that there wasn't much justification in eating meat, whereas before I merely felt this unconsciously and it bugged me, but there was a social encouragement of it.

 

[shoeless]

i'm a vegetarian. not so much because of the i-wan-to-save-animals thing, though that's a nice bonus -- i just don't particularly like meat, and don't trust the meat packing industry. also, vegetarian food is delicious. so yeah.

 

[ITGabriel]

I could never be a vegetarian even when i tried(and i have tried). It might give you all the proteins and vitamins but it's never satisfying, you always feel hungry.
I believe in the natural rule: humans are omnivores therefore we eat both meat and vegetables. and i really like a good salad with my steak.

 

[Pants]

I tend to eat little meat because it's expensive and inconvenient but anti-meatism is something that I turn my nose at. The only thing I hate more is the organic food movement. That and bad feelings about the seal hunt.

I don't see the moral issue in meat eating. Slaughter is quick; there are certainly animals in the wild, and people in society, dying much more difficult deaths. Domesticated animals may not enjoy the freedom of their ancestral stock but they don't know the difference and I doubt that it pains them any. Having worked in hog barns, I have seen many a happy pig.

One thing that does concern me is the environmental cost. Raising animals is not just financially expensive and I'm not sure that the cost of meat has all the externalities built into it.

I tend to eat a lot of fish, especially small, oily fish, and for the most part I think that circumvents most of the environmental issue. Sardine, capelin, herring and other small fish fisheries are sustainable and don't carry the same costs of production that agricultural meats do. Relatively low contamination, great taste. I also eat a lot of tilapia.

That said, I have gone long stretches with very little in the way of animal products. Even substituting with legumes for protein, I've noticed a gradual decline in mood. I get lethargic. Maybe it's a deficit of B vitamines, maybe it's choline, maybe it's certain essential amino acids or maybe it's just that these times also happen to be times when I'm neglecting my diet in general. All the same, I don't think that I'm eating properly unless I'm having a good serving of fish/meat at least every other day.

Also, vegetarianism that includes eggs and dairy? WTF? I don't see how percieved moral issues might allow someone to eat eggs and dairy but not meat. What do you think happens to retired laying hens? They don't wile away their autumn years in a villa. And the captive conditions while they're in production aren't animal-freindly-people friendly, either.

 

[LAM]

Eh, we are predators just lika all other animals. What do I care if cows haven't evolved to not get slaughtered. The smell of a particular butcher's shop I go into when I used to be on holidays in Croatia with my grandparents was the best thing I have ever smelt. Seriously, it made me want to devour all the meat there, I was almost slobbering at how hungry for meat it made me feel .

Seriously though, how can you apply humanitarianism to animals. Animals live by the natural order which is that predators eat the prey. We are the predators, therefore we have every right under nature and any god's laws to eat it. Just because its more convenient to herd them all doesn't make it unnatural (for example: dolphins trapping and slaughtering huge schools of fish.) We are omnivores because it was better for us to eat both meat and vegetables. You just can't trade meat with vegetables. It might come close to meat in nutrients, but its never the same.

 

[anemian]

Technically we trade meat for fruits and vegetables. We only adapted(and barely) for eating meat to survive drought and earth randomness.

 

[JoeJoe]

I made a poll on this before. I think around 20-30% of forum members here are vegetarians.

I myself am a vegetarian but I don't know if I'd be one if I weren't brought up as one. My mother started vegetarianism for medical and religious reasons.
The reasons I still am a vegetarian are that our society consumes WAY too much meat, taking up farming ground, that could feed several times as many people and at the same time people complain, that we shouldn't make ecofuel from plants for the exact same reasons. The oceans are also overfished and ecosystems are being destroyed. I do however eat dairy products and eggs and I've tried some meat because I wanted to know what it tastes like. I will also eat food, that contains small amounts of meat, if I'm a guest.

EDIT: Here's the original thread: http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=1692

 

[PapyrusAirplanes]

Vegan.

And why would we hate S's? S's make the world go 'round so we N's can sit and think and things.

 

[Jah]

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

 

[snafupants]

Vegetarian here. My father is INTJ and my mother is ESFP; which can make for some interesting fireworks in the argument department.

 

[KazeCraven]

Not vegetarian. Was vegetarian, but now avoid strict adherence to any rules. I notice little difference having reintroduced meat, so I'm cutting back (soon as I finish off this big pan of beef).

Mother: I???
Father: ISTJ

Not complaining. They're actually pretty lenient, despite the stigma most people attach to "J" types.

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

I'm a vegetarian. Mostly for health reasons, but I also figure that there's no reason to kill animals for food when there's a healthier diet for me. But I don't judge anyone else. Humans are omnivores, after all, so I can't blame others for choosing the diet that comes naturally to them.

Mother = ISTJ - she's a doctor, so she wasn't thrilled about the idea of me becoming a vegetarian; she relaxed, though, once she realized that I wasn't going to keel over and die at any second
Father = unknown, but I suspect that he's either INTJ or the more destructive type of INFJ - thinks vegetarianism is stupid

Yeah, "J" parents can be obnoxious. But, with exceptions, they mostly mean well. You just learn to ignore (or evade) the irrelevant and obnoxious things, and listen to the occasional reasonable things.

 

[snafupants]

pants, you really got on a roll - pardon the pun - with idiotic statements. up front, i will say that my point of view is more grounded in health reasons than animal rights or religious ideals. moving on, when you say that the slaughter is quick, have you looked into a chicken coop. probably not because purdue chicken mandates that they are blocked off with black covering to prevent public scrutiny. anyway, behind those curtains are chickens that are three times normal size - to the point where they cant stand up for more than five second stretches. if thats the good life, maybe we should shoot you with steroids and balloon you to seven hundred pounds.

as for your other insurmountable dilemmas, pop a b vitamin and realize that harvesting milk from a cow is not killing a cow. seriously, have you equated a childs dairy based ice cream cone to a sirloin steak? to call your logic specious would being doing you a favor. one more point before i go, in part two of your rant you say "they [animals] dont know the difference" but then at the end you facetiously say that they arent living their autumn years in a villa...is that a contradiction? you seem conflicted. if they dont know the difference, then who cares right?

 

[Crazythinker1]

I used to be a vegetarian. And for the most part I still am, but I do enjoy a good hamburger every now and then.

Mother: INTP/INFP depending on her mood.
Father: ESFJ(?)

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

Mother: INTP/INFP depending on her mood.
Father: ESFJ(?)

That must make for an interesting relationship.

 

[Razare]

I couldn't be a vegetarian because I have one life goal I need to fulfill and that's eating at a Hardee's once again, like I did in my early college days.

I love their hamburgers because they're ridiculously huge, good, and served with a side order of curly fries. I'm easy to please.

Oh, but I'm not an INTP, so I guess I am not bursting your bubble.

 

[snafupants]

intp brethren, meet the doubledown now being served at KFC (while supplies last):

there may be some chin scratching as to what this mysterious food item consists of - not sure even the fine folks at KFC could answer that. all i can say is that the buns are pieces of fried chicken, supposedly, which house sizzlin' pork! the best 4000 calories i have ever had in one sitting. this <$5 food item could provide sustenance to an african village for the time it takes to gestate a child, or so i am told. step aside big irish. (i like how they made the "sandwich" look like a showroom car.)

have the tums ready and may god have mercy on your soul come lights out.

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

I would hope that I don't offend by saying that I am an absolute fiendish steak eater. I mean every, chance, I, get....

I love my veggies but not as much as grilled cow sections.

 

[Yasmin]

It's complicated. I was vegan for six months, and then lacto-ovo vegetarian for a year after that. Gave up for a bit over 6 months, and in recent weeks have returned to lacto-ovo-vegetarianism. I'm a pretty indecisive person.

On another note, I still don't quite understand what makes vegetarianism so healthy. Last I checked, funnel cake, as in cake that is fried and then covered in sugar, is a vegetarian dish, and that is certainly not healthy(nothing that good could be healthy.). And we must not forget french fries and chocolate. But at the same time, I did gain fifteen pounds when I started eating meat again, although that could just be coincidence.

Anyway, I haven't had either of my parents take the test, although I strongly suspect my mother to be an ISFJ and my father an ESTP. I love my mother and hate my father, and I take neither of those words lightly.

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

intp brethren, meet the doubledown now being served at KFC (while supplies last):

there may be some chin scratching as to what this mysterious food item consists of - not sure even the fine folks at KFC could answer that. all i can say is that the buns are pieces of fried chicken, supposedly, which house sizzlin' pork! the best 4000 calories i have ever had in one sitting. this <$5 food item could provide sustenance to an african village for the time it takes to gestate a child, or so i am told. step aside big irish. (i like how they made the "sandwich" look like a showroom car.)

have the tums ready and may god have mercy on your soul come lights out.

That is one of the most disgusting things I've seen in my life! Not necessarily because of the meat, but because of all the grease, cholesterol, calories... Geez! Even if you're an avid meat eater, puh-lease don't eat that!

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

It's complicated. I was vegan for six months, and then lacto-ovo vegetarian for a year after that. Gave up for a bit over 6 months, and in recent weeks have returned to lacto-ovo-vegetarianism. I'm a pretty indecisive person.

On another note, I still don't quite understand what makes vegetarianism so healthy. Last I checked, funnel cake, as in cake that is fried and then covered in sugar, is a vegetarian dish, and that is certainly not healthy(nothing that good could be healthy.). And we must not forget french fries and chocolate. But at the same time, I did gain fifteen pounds when I started eating meat again, although that could just be coincidence.

Yeah, I've heard people can actually gain weight (though, I also lost about 15 lbs. the first year, and kept it off). But I think part of it is that as a vegetarian, you're less likely to eat at fast food restaurants because they're not likely to have foods that you can eat. Even French fries are not necessarily vegetarian (see, McDonald's). Part of it might also have to do with how we cook meat versus vegetables - you generally have to do more than steaming for meat. Part of it might also be that people who switch to the vegetarian diet are more likely to be health conscious as this may have been a factor in their decision and you have to pay more attention to your diet to make sure you're getting the right vitamins and nutrients. Also, depends on what one means by the vegetarian diet. Sometimes, people mean "semi-vegetarian," in which one does eat fish and chicken, so it is possible that when people say the "vegetarian" diet is healthier, they could simply mean a diet without red meat. I will say this, though. When I researched the diet before I switched, I did find that medical resources did acknowledge that vegetarians do tend to have lower (bad) cholesterol levels and lower blood pressure.

Anyway, I haven't had either of my parents take the test, although I strongly suspect my mother to be an ISFJ and my father an ESTP. I love my mother and hate my father, and I take neither of those words lightly.

I feel for you. Maybe we should start a club.

 

[Yasmin]

I feel for you. Maybe we should start a club.

We should.

 

[jzono1]

Meat plays a part in many major worldwide problems. Everything from simple ethical problems to water shortages/desertification.

It's not rational to add another step in the chain from sunlight->human food.

I don't really mind if others eat meat. But it's sad that most people don't practice mindfullness about it. It's a luxury, yet most people view it as a cheap commodity.

 

[sardonic-tea]

I'm a vegetarian (trying to be vegan).
First of all, it's much healthier, and second of all, I don't support the greedy, illogical, meat industry. I'd have to say that Food Inc. got me into that.

I've been really thinking about it, and I know that me being a vegetarian won't make a huge difference at all. But that's life...I won't make a huge difference in life either. Sad world. I figured, though, that if I have a choice to choose something smarter, then why not. I like having principles that I can follow (and piss people off with); that is the true satisfaction of my life.

 

[FearDunn]

I've always said, "If there was a perfectly nutritious paste available, I would consume it everyday."

 

[Stoic Beverage]

My favorite sandwich of all time is something I like to call The Slaughterhouse.
Buy a Baconator from Wendy's. Buy a Double-Down from KFC.
Insert the Double-Down into the Baconator.
You now have about 15 minutes to enjoy this piece of greasy bliss. At the mere sight of it, your cholesterol will increase. After ingestion, you have approximately 5 minutes before your heart fails.
Worth it.

 

[gruesomebrat]

Stoic, that doesn't sound too bad. Still doesn't compare to the steaks my dad gets his hands on, though. A pound to a pound and a half of pure, succulent, marinated steak, served with mashed potatoes and corn on the cob... mm-mmm, heaven.

 

[gephura]

I was a vegetarian for 6 years. Then gave it up.

 

[indigofireflies]

I'm a vegetarian. I can't stand commercial meat-processing industries and I like the health benefits. Five years and I've only had a little sushi. Go me?

 

[Ermine]

I'm omnivorous. But for various reasons, I hardly ever eat meat. Most meat I like is usually outside my affordability range, I can't be bothered to cook meat most of the time, convenience reasons.

Also, so far as energy is concerned, eating mostly vegetarian makes more sense. You can get the same required calories from animal or plant sources. But which makes more sense, eating plants/grain where there's a pretty even energy transfer. It doesn't take that much to be full, especially with bread, beans, lentils, etc. But with a cow, for example, it probably eats literally TONS of grain over its lifetime, only to die, and produce much less food than the grain would.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Vegetables suck. Meat is the tits.

 

[Stoic Beverage]

Vegetables suck. Meat is the tits.

Good man.

Stoic, that doesn't sound too bad. Still doesn't compare to the steaks my dad gets his hands on, though. A pound to a pound and a half of pure, succulent, marinated steak, served with mashed potatoes and corn on the cob... mm-mmm, heaven.

I...I have seen the light. It's beautiful.

 

[pjoa09]

I tried being vegetarian once until I found myself on a buffet and no alternative to the buffet. It was breakfast.

Can't come back anymore. I am sorry. I love French Toast, McDonalds, Fish, Turkey Breast, Au Bon Pain sandwiches, and Black Canyon sandwiches, and noodles with meat in it, ham on my pizza with black mushrooms, pancakes (egg ones), I like milk too, salami sandwiches, and fried chicken, well I think that's about it.

But you can find me behind the line of beef. I feed a cow every week. Its going to be awkward if I bit a chunk off of his friends.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

intp brethren, meet the doubledown now being served at KFC (while supplies last):

there may be some chin scratching as to what this mysterious food item consists of - not sure even the fine folks at KFC could answer that. all i can say is that the buns are pieces of fried chicken, supposedly, which house sizzlin' pork! the best 4000 calories i have ever had in one sitting. this <$5 food item could provide sustenance to an african village for the time it takes to gestate a child, or so i am told. step aside big irish. (i like how they made the "sandwich" look like a showroom car.)

have the tums ready and may god have mercy on your soul come lights out.

It's... It's... Beautiful. Absolutely unhealthily beautiful...
I have to take a bite of that one day...

 

[sroro]

I eat whatever's unlucky enough to not get away (and won't give me horrible diseases later on). I don't like to eat much meat if I have a choice though. I don't like the texture.

 

[walfin]

Oh my the KFC thing looks awesome.

But anyway. We're not biologically meant to be vegetarians. Enamel isn't thick enough and we've got incisors, and we don't have a caecum like some of the herbivorous mammals. Then again, we're not meant to be carnivores either.

Why limit ourselves? I would eat even reprocessed shit if it tasted good and was nutritious enough.

 

[snafupants]

To poster twenty six, lost in Discovery Zone?

 

[Taniwha]

Welcome fellow vegetarian INTP.

 

[Taniwha]

ISTJ which sucks!!!!! because we hate S's ....so yeah.

I have a good friend who's an ISTJ, regardless of my vegetarian ways. Me and her enjoy sitting on the beach fishing (I catch and release) I generally get along with ISTJ's. I like fishing alongside with my ISTP buddies too. I do boxing alongside with ISTP's and ISFJ's, I really enjoy working alongside with introverted S's. Extroverted S's on the other hand are a completely different story.

 

[pacman24740]

I was a vegetarian for 9 months, but then I got into exercise and bodybuilding more specifically. It's possible to be a vegetarian body builder, but it's more difficult.

 

[Nocturne]

Hmmm... I did consider it for a week or so, but I coulldn't leave that wonderful meat lasagna behind. I also have no love for tofu or "vegetarian" meat. *blech*

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I think there would be a high number of INTPs who are vegetarian, but for more... reasoned out reasons*, rather than "animals are so cute, I could never eat one!", "those slaughterhouse pictures just make me feel sick!".

Since there's not likely to be a strong "moral" feeling attached, an INTP vegetarian is probably also going to be more open to breaking the rules every now and again.

*though apparently "it tastes sooo good man" is still a valid reason to eat lots of meat

 

[aaaw]

I can find no compelling reason to become vegetarian, although I have gone for long periods of time without eating meat and I believe most people should reduce their meat consumption.

There are three main reasons people become vegetarian:

1) Due to ethical concerns about animal rights

2) Due to ethical concerns over the environmental effects of producing meat

3) For health reasons

Starting from the last point. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that it is healthy for humans to eat a certain quantity of meat. The human species has evolved to be omnivorous and almost all human societies throughout history have been omnivorous. This is not to say that it is impossible to get all your dietary needs from non-animal products. However, it takes a degree of diversity in plant material that has only recently been accesible to large numbers of people around the world.

This leads us to reason number one. If it is natural, and for many people has been and still is necessary to eat animal products, then ethical objections are limited. Yes, there are valid ethical arguments over certain types of meat production (factory farming etc) but I find it difficult to conclude that eating meat per se is unethical.

Finally, the environmental impact of meat production. For me this is the most compelling reason to reduce meat consumption. However, not all meat production is environmentally destructive and in some cases it can even be environmentally beneficial (e.g. reducing the numbers of prolific species - kangaroos in Australia, red deer in parts of Europe). Therefore, it is not meat that is destructive, it is certain sources of meat that can be environmentally harmful. The same can be said of certain vegetable products - for example, the growing of some soy products causes the destruction of Amazonian rainforest.

For these reasons I would never call myself a vegetarian. I can find no justification for having an all or nothing attitude towards vegetarianism. I believe that for most vegetarians, their vegetarianism is part of an identity movement, rather than something based on undeniable ethical principles.

 

[Architect]

Vegetarian for 25 years and vegan for five.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that it is healthy for humans to eat a certain quantity of meat. The human species has evolved to be omnivorous and almost all human societies throughout history have been omnivorous.

That's funny. So much misinformation in the world, particularly when it comes to diet.

 

[aaaw]

We have canine teeth - designed for eating meat. Sure, these are smaller than other meat eaters and have been evolving to become even smaller, but this merely reflects advances in cutting tools and in food preparation methods (cooking). Our closest relatives - chimpanzees - hunt and eat meat. For most of human history we have been hunter gathers - not just gathers. Even the most cursory glance at the history of our species shows that it is far more natural to have a diet that includes meat, than to have a pure vegetarian diet. An omnivorous diet is the rule, vegetarianism is the exception.

We lack some of the other features of meat eaters - but we don't need those because we have brains and use these to hunt, rather than, for example, claws.

Too much meat is unhealthy, this is true. But small portions of meat are part of a healthy diet. It is more difficult to get vitamin B12 and sufficient protein from a vege diet.

Again, I find no compelling reason to be a vegetarian. A vegetarian diet is not inherently more healthy than one that encompasses meat - often it can be less healthy.

I can find reasons to limit one's meat intake; to only eat certain types of meat; to only eat meat produced in certain ways - but vegetarianism takes that leap of faith representative of a religion of identity movement rather than being based on actual facts.

 

[Architect]

Yes we have some very small canine teeth, as do all the primates who as a rule eat less than 5% of their diet in meat. Actually a large percentage of primates eat an entirely fruit diet, but we evolved amylase producing genes in at least 10 base pairs and so were able to move beyond the equator. We also have flat molars, an extremely long intestine, weak jaw, no claws or other offensive weapons (we didn't have claws long before we evolved our large brain), no frontal projection with reproductive organs hidden back (think of the Lion design with the large frontal 'shield'), highly acidic stomach (our stomach is acidic but not nearly to the same degree), we chew our food instead of chomping it, etc. There's a video I'm having a hard time finding where a MD shows that actually we are not designed as carnivores.

But that's beside the point I think, what's more interesting is what is the best food for us to eat, and the research is absolutely clear that keeping meat to as little is possible is the single most health promoting thing you can do. Don't try and argue this point, just go read a few of the thousands of studies.

A vegetarian diet is not inherently more healthy than one that encompasses meat - often it can be less healthy.

No offense but this post is nearly 100% misinformation.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

However, not all meat production is environmentally destructive and in some cases it can even be environmentally beneficial (e.g. reducing the numbers of prolific species - kangaroos in Australia, red deer in parts of Europe).

So, eating meat is fine, just as long as it's kangaroo or red deer.