Political correctness? I dont think so.

[Carinthian]

A post of such content may have been made, but I'm new and I don't feel like browsing today :3.


Coming from an ex-communist country I do know how greatly irritating it is to have a teacher give you an F (that would be a 1 in Slovenia) because in your essay (it was in the 8th grade. I believe even than my intellect surpassed that of my teacher's and dare I call her a nibbling twat she was a communist whore :l) you happened to write GYPSY (cigan) instead of Roma (thats how the politiclly correct people call it nowdays, because the word Gypsy is in fact a racial slur and only cruel heartless racist bastards dare call them in such a discriminating way!).

The other day I presented an alternative theory to the proto-slavic one in my history class. I only believe that students should hear all sides (and not the communist bias created to degrade out national pride in order to create greater harmony in yugoslavia, which was in reality divided more than a plumber's butt cheeks). I don't need to remind all that I haven't even started high school -_- Perhaps it's true that elementary schools get the trash of teachers.
Anyway because this contradicted with the teacher's mental state I was flagged as a nationalist (which I am, but seriously... I'm the only one in there who knows what that means) swine and sent to principal (how original). There he lectured me about equality and not being a nuissance and other brainwashed things like that.

Right... And please don't get me started on the local news. Shouldn't they be objective?

Ohh... I dread the Frankfurters!

-----

Erm... I hope I made sense because I'm not so skilled in writing yet and I apologise for any mistakes made.



Thoughts?

 

[Melkor]

Ohhhh...

Now thats weird...


Generally when many people drown together, they refuse to accept that they're drowning, and instead point out how it must be the people above water drowning.
It appears you know you're drowning.

Nice one.

Political correctness is something you have to tolerate though.

You can be a biased bastard in good company, but when you have to stick someone for the hell of it you have to come across as being passive and empathatic.






(Hey?whats wrong with being a communist whore anyway?)

 

[Carinthian]

Communist whore is good, if you know that you are a communist whore because you chose to be a communist whore. What I was trying to say is that she was a brainwashed communist whore. Which is another kind of Communist Whore. The first isn't even all that irritating becasue at least she has reasons to be like that.

 

[Melkor]

I see....

I like communsim as a theory....sadly, we're much to corrupt for it to work..

We like to see hard work rewarded, and we realise that skill is a virtue...


It just doesn't go with human nature..

We're too greedy..

 

[Fukyo]

Coming from Slovenia,you should be well aware that the word "cigan" is more often then not meant as an insult.

Also the state of Yugoslavia was socialist not communist,so you might want to explain this "communist bias" you mentioned.

 

[Carinthian]

Oh I think I'm pritty much a socialist, only more on the upper half of the political compass. More of a quasi-commie. Hence my nationalism because I think people are divided more by nationality.


Edit:
It's the tone in which you're saying it. lol.

 

[Melkor]

I think Fukyo's a bit mad.

I am amused.

 

[Carinthian]

If it is so, that was really not my intention and i apologise. : )

Now come on I only posted an example. Lets not stray here: Political correctness. I would really like to hear your opinions.

 

[loveofreason]

I'd be pleased to be called a gypsy, but I don't live in your culture.

Objectively all terms are neutral. It's only what we hold in our minds that can cause offense to ourselves.

Political correctness misses the point.

 

[grey matters]

"divided more then a plumbers butt cheeks". Quite funny, I'll have to remember that and use it sometime. Thank you.

It's interesting when you live in a big country like the U.S. you don't realize how things like political correctness bullshit infiltrates other countries. I get so preoccupied with our own bullshit that I fail to recognize the extent to which people other countries have to endure the same bullshit. Thanks for the disturbing revelation. *pop* (that's the sound of my head coming out of my ass).

Sometimes the best you can do is learn what political correct things to say (this week) so that you don't get fired. What really gets me about political correctness is that these people are trying to do the impossible. They are trying to change (sometimes it seems more like brainwashing) the way someone feels on the inside by forcing certain behaviors on the outside. That only goes so far. It's appropriate for people to wear professional clothes in a professional job and to not curse or tell dirty jokes (I.E. professional behavior) but there is a point at which this goes too far and it becomes controlling bullshit.

For example in our country we must call black people African Americans yet white people are called still called white people. I think that if I must call them African Americans then they must call me a European American or, more specifically, a Dutch American. After all there is more Dutch in me then there is African in most of them.

Sometimes I feel as if they force political correctness on us because of their inability to forgive. They want to have a sense of control over us. How is this supposed to make things better for them? How is pissing off other people by imposing bullshit on them supposed to improve things? Revenge never produces what people think it ought to. It is better to forgive and move on.

The ironic thing about it is that a few black rap musicians use the derogatory word "nigger" in some of their songs and some black people sing and dance to this music. Yet because the song contains the word nigger, white people can't sing and dance to it...that would be racist. This summer my husband and I caught some young black people singing one of these songs and we just stared at them and asked them why the hell they were doing this. They were young and innocent enough to still experience shame for this behavior and they shut up. If I were to sing any of these racist rap songs at work I would get my ass FIRED so fast I wouldn't know what hit me. It's bullshit.

I will shut up now.

 

[Ermine]

I don't think it's political correctness as much as it is conflicting subjective viewpoints. I would give more input, but I know next to nothing about Slovenian culture.

 

[Fukyo]

I think that political correctness is crucial for keeping good relations between people,but it has it's down sides like this:African American?So there are no other places on Earth where black people are natives?It could be interpreted incorrectly...

 

[Carinthian]

Good common sense is cruitial for keeping good relations with eachother. Understanding is cruitial for keeping good relations with eachother. But certainly not political correctness. Political correctness only gives power to the "opressed" and hence the opressed become the opposite. Perhaps it is a way of life? A neverending circle?

 

[Fukyo]

Political correctness only gives power to the "opressed" and hence the opressed become the opposite. Perhaps it is a way of life?

I want an in-depth elaboration of this claim,examples if you will.

 

[grey matters]

There is a point at which it is better to forgive and move on. Political correctness creates barriers where just the opposite needs to happen.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

The visually impaired leading the hearing impaired leading the height challenged leading the weight challenged etc. etc.

 

[Carinthian]

I shall describe the gypsies, since they are a favorite of ours (for the sake of PC please do not interpret my "gypsies" for the entire race for I have many gypsy friends and they are in fact, awesome. I am reffering to a group living near my home town.).

Once again I'm getting one of those moments when eveything is clear to my in my mind but I can't seem to find the proper words.


Oh, I did not mean that as literally as it sounds but many gypsies now, who have never before heard that the word gypsy is a slur, act agressively to those who call them so, and call honest slovene folk "german whores" and such. They also call honest gypsyes traitors and such. I believe this political correctness casues much more damage than gain. And I am not disputing the theoretical gain, even if in practice it is much different. You cant just equalise a chinaman with a dutchman, a slovene with a serb if you will. Political correctness should fail becasue it perdicts a global culture which is nowhere near completion.

 

[Ermine]

I think that political correctness is crucial for keeping good relations between people,but it has it's down sides like this:African American?So there are no other places on Earth where black people are natives?It could be interpreted incorrectly...

Er, what about Africa?

Actually, in my experience, political correctness only makes relationships between different people more uneasy. It only creates self imposed barriers. For example, children have a much easier time befriending people that are very different from them, physically, culturally, or otherwise. I think it's because they are ignorant of "political correctness".

 

[Carinthian]

Er, what about Africa?

Actually, in my experience, political correctness only makes relationships between different people more uneasy. It only creates self imposed barriers. For example, children have a much easier time befriending people that are very different from them, physically, culturally, or otherwise. I think it's because they are ignorant of "political correctness".

/agree

 

[grey matters]

On a side note, do you know that the word gypsy is not derogatory her in the U.S.? It has good connotations like being artsey, eclectic, and free willed. I had an aerobics instructor who nicknamed herself gypsy.

 

[Fukyo]

I shall describe the gypsies, since they are a favorite of ours (for the sake of PC please do not interpret my "gypsies" for the entire race for I have many gypsy friends and they are in fact, awesome. I am reffering to a group living near my home town.).

Once again I'm getting one of those moments when eveything is clear to my in my mind but I can't seem to find the proper words.


Oh, I did not mean that as literally as it sounds but many gypsies now, who have never before heard that the word gypsy is a slur, act agressively to those who call them so, and call honest slovene folk "german whores" and such. They also call honest gypsyes traitors and such. I believe this political correctness casues much more damage than gain. And I am not disputing the theoretical gain, even if in practice it is much different. You cant just equalise a chinaman with a dutchman, a slovene with a serb if you will. Political correctness should fail becasue it perdicts a global culture which is nowhere near completion.

I wanted to know your opinion on this because there is tension and even hostility to some degree between these two racial groups in our countries.I wanted to make sure I got it right.

 

[Kidege]

According to me, in my country, political correctness has been absorbed into the multitude of courtesy formulae. Since they're not traditional (as in, they last a couple of years and not a good 50 years to 3 centuries), they don't mean a thing. You don't get fired for not using PC terms. You just might get glared at, maybe lectured or insulted. (okay, you can also be reported to a national comittee against discrimination that will lecture you, but it rarely ever happens).

The people who do use the PC terms are therefore a) hypocrites who want to show off their supposed "tolerance" or b) well meaning folks with a conscience.

I think that what may make a real change in society, what might truly break the cycle, instead of continuing the oppressed/oppresor deal, is debate, education, and deep thought. Becoming a well meaning person with a conscience, instead of a bigot or a hypocrite, hurts and doesn't happen overnight.

 

[Madoness]

I think that political correctness is crucial for keeping good relations between people,but it has it's down sides like this:African American?So there are no other places on Earth where black people are natives?It could be interpreted incorrectly...

Lets say if political correctness is a "flag", and its meaning is seen through, but still waved to the others to be seen, yet its meaning not really ment, it does not keep good relations between conflicted people.
This political correctness is a quite hot subject in some of the countires which were under The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, as now this period history is taught differently to different nations, yet it's all politically correct. The way this period of history is taught has different psychological effects on people that a taught differently, and because of this conflicts are easy to come. If these core issues of conficts are not overcome, these problems remain. It really doesn't matter how "correct" politically everything is.

 

[Fukyo]

I meant more along the lines of using it in good faith.When the motivation behind using it is good natured. Hypocrites are the problem.

 

[Madoness]

I meant more along the lines of using it in good faith.When the motivation behind using it is good natured. Hypocrites are the problem.

Understood. Thought so, but still had to address the issue.

 

[sagewolf]

What annoys me is the blanket-ban style use of PC phrases. Even if no-one who could possibly be offended by what you say is in the area, and the reason for the offense being taken (were there anyone there to take it) is shakier than a stone monument on stilts, you have to say a certain thing instead of the 'offensive' phase anyway.

Case in point: Art class. We are brainstorming. Until our art teacher speaks up and tells us that, since 'brainstorming' might upset a person with epilepsy, we're meant to say 'brainshowering'. Fair enough, move on, forget about it completely because I don't care, no-one in my class has epilepsy, and there's no reasoning behind it anyway.

Next day: Teacher: Now, shall we brainshower?
Me: But no-one here has epilepsy.
Her: We're still meant to say it.
Me: I don't know if an epileptic would be upset by that anyway. It's just a word; it's not like 'nigger' or 'fenian', it's not intentionally insulting.
Her: Say it now, 'brainshowering.'
Me: *gives up.*

(I should have told her that, since I have mild depression, I find 'brainshowering' offensive. I don't (find it offensive), but it has a better chance of shutting her up about it.)

More sensibly, PC phrases have no power whatsoever if the intentions and actions of the person saying them are hostile, insulting or otherwise ill-intentioned. Only 10% (I think; it's a small percentage anyway) of what we communicate face-to-face is verbal: there are plenty of other ways to tell someone you don't think much of them, and a lot of those ways are unconscious. Even if a person tries to hide the fact that they're being condescending, it comes across as clear as day. Then they look like a condescending hypocrite, or like they want something from you.

If the actions and intentions of the person saying a PC phrase are good, then there's no point to the phrase. Such a person would probably not say anything truly insulting intentionally, and if they did so unintentionally, it would be without malice. The matter could easily be cleared up, couldn't it? If people were, as was mentioned earlier, willing to let things go and forgive.

 

[Dissident]

The whole thing is just dumb, the words themselves dont matter, what does a black person care if the human resources guy is politically correct in the interview and treats him just fine when in the end he doesnt get the job because of his skin color? When someone is racist he can make others discriminated and alienated with any set of words, the words are not the problem. I think a sign of such problem being overcomed is when people use them without any ill intention and nobody is offended by them. The way its approached now may make the words dissapear but the problem will remain.

 

[grey matters]

I have a neighbor who had worked for his company for 12 years and had an exemplary record. He transferred to a department where he was the only white person there. Well one of the black people didn't like him because he was white so he trumped up some accusations that my neighbor was making racist statements and he got a few of his co-workers in on it. The company took this guy seriously and put my neighbor on paid leave while they investigated the situation. The only thing that saved my neighbor's butt was the fact that he had 12 years of exemplary service with no past record of any racist incidents. It turns out that the guy who had trumped up the accusations had done this before and had run off the last white guy who had transferred to that department. I think they finally fired this guy but I don't know. Now isn't that a bunch of bullshit? Do you think a white person could get away with that kind of shit?

Sagewolf, I believe you because I don't think you would lie about something like that, but it's still hard to believe that someone could be that stupid. This is disturbing, I never thought that anyone could take offense to the word brainstorming!

 

[Dissident]

Well, an epileptic attack is kind of an electric storm in your brain

 

[Jesin]

We are brainstorming. Until our art teacher speaks up and tells us that, since 'brainstorming' might upset a person with epilepsy, we're meant to say 'brainshowering'.

Whaaat? I've never heard that one before.

That doesn't even make any sense. I mean, I could understand why it was called brainstorming, but if I had never heard either term before and I was told it was called brainshowering, I wouldn't get it until someone explained that it used to be brainstorming but was changed because it might offend epileptics. And even then I'd still have the "WTF!?" reaction.

Really, the word "brainshowering" reminds me of "brainwashing" more than "brainstorming".

 

[Ermine]

I don't know. Perhaps people who are epileptic are actually really sensitive to this, but I don't see why they would be. Yes, a vague connection can be made between brainstorming and an epileptic seizure, but it's obvious that the word "brainstorm" is not meant to be offensive.

@ Jesin, I think I understand the origin of "brainshowering". A rain shower is a milder version of a storm, right? Therefore "brainshowering" is a milder version of "brainstorming" without having any links to epilepsy. And I also initially had the reaction of connecting the word to "brainwashing".

Personally, if I were epileptic, I would be a lot more offended by "brainshowering" because it's implying that I'm stupid enough to be offended by "brainstorming" because I already know the intended definition of the word.

 

[sagewolf]

"Brainshowering"... for my thought process to be reduced from a thunder-and-lightning, cacophonous, pelting-rain and puissant expression of Nature's wrath and grandeur to a mildy annoying patter of water from the clouds above that will probably clear up soon anyway so why bother bringing a coat with me to the shops. Oh, and the logical abbreviation is BS.

Actually, that is really insulting. Although it does describe the process of walking into that teacher's classes quite accurately, so I suppose it has its silver lining.

I don't want to insult anyone, and if an epileptic actually told me that they didn't like the word, I wouldn't use it; I'd find an alternative (wouldn't bloody use BS though, and I'd think they were hypersensitive everafter). I think this goes way too far, though. It's weird that in the rush to be reasonable and understanding, we have abandoned both concepts. (No wait, that's right. We're human.)

 

[Kuu]

brainstorming? brainshowering?

Meh. I'd rather do some brainskinnydipping. You know, not as violent and senseless as storming, but not mediocre and routine like showering. Just a censor-less enjoyment


I really can't stand political correctness, hypocrisy. People say I'm blunt and tactless, well that may be true, I have un-learned those things that limit me. What's the point of having words if you can't use them? And its the dangerous words that are the most interesting things to discuss, the most polemical, that put people at odds and make them collide with their invisible mental boxes. Of course, people like safety and conformity, not destabilizing inquiry and intellectual danger.......

Of course, in everyday conversation this usually ends with some hurt feelings, or people screaming at you, routine stuff..... but ultimately harmless. If it's a situation when speaking my mind out would lead to real dangers, I express my dissent with silence...

 

[Jordan~]

Political correctness (or, to use the politically correct term, "cultural sensitivity") is, I believe, a measure taken to avoid embarassing oneself, with the pretence that one is trying to avoid offending people. Certain people can "pull off" certain words in the company of certain other people, say them in such a way that the meaning they intended comes across; and certain other people cannot. The latter group, rather than admitting this uncomfortable truth, would rather label the words they can't pull off as being "politically incorrect". If I was called "poofter" by my best friend in an affectionate manner, I would not in the slightest bit be offended. If a skinhead in a Swastika t-shirt across the street shouted it in an accent from the darkest depths of Middle England, however, I would not be in the slighest bit pleased. The word in itself is inoffensive, the context is where the difficulty arises. Perhaps minds which aren't as open as that of an NP can't quite grapple with that.

 

[Ermine]

While this is all totally understandable, the subjectivity makes me sick.

 

[sagewolf]

Either sick, or disillusioned and bitter; human society will do that to you, yeah.

 

[Carinthian]

We should have a referendum to eject all people who dont meet our standards off the earth. Kinda genocidal but meh.

 

[grey matters]

So in other words Political correctness is a way to help the simple minded. The one's who can't think for themselves and determine for themselves what is wrong and what is right. All they have to do is mindlessly obey the rules that someone else feeds them and they will be a good person. I get it now. Thanks for clarifying things for me. *bangs head against the wall*

 

[Barachai]

It can also be the result of a hyperactive legal system. That plays a large factor in the US.

 

[grey matters]

Gee, perhaps we can start a new fun thread. It could be called "find a politically incorrect offense in the user above you".

Here, I'll start: You said "Hyperactive legal system". The word hyper has negative connotations, it implies that they have ADHD which is a disorder, so by saying this you are saying that the legal system in the U.S. has some sort of disorder. I'm offended. *Gets huffy*

This is the term you should use; INDUSTRIOUS legal system. The word industrious implies that these people are hard working conscientious people who are looking out for our interests. They are positive contributors to society.

What do you think?

 

[Barachai]

oh my God no! Not PC! Help!
...lol
Reminds me of nanny state philosophy
I hate that stuff.

Perhaps that would be an effective way to point out clearly some of PC's foolishness...
Wait, did I just insult computers?

 

[grey matters]

Well frankly I am offended by your use of lol. It looks too much like 101. lol constantly reminds 100 that it is 1 (or l) better then 100. That is demeaning to the l more challenged (I.E. the number 100). Instead you should say loeal, which stands for laughing out exceptionally ambitious laughter!

Honestly! You should be more sensitive next time!!

 

[Barachai]

Now I'm offended, loeal.

 

[grey matters]

Wait, wait, you're not playing the game right. You didn't mention what you were offended about and/or what was the PC thing to say to correct my horrible mistake!! That's no fun. Are you humor challenged or something?

 

[Carinthian]

GM, you have offended the mentally challenged people. Instead you must say "They who are not so capable in interpreting my humorous suggestions". Come on, be more tolerant next time. Swine (for the sake of continuance loeal).

 

[Da Blob]

Wishful thing.....
Will it ever be politically correct
to be offended by 'Stupidity'?

Somehow I think not

In America, it is quite fashionable to be a Victim (Archetype?)
It allows one to maintain a "Victim's stance" as a role in society
a Victim is constantly entitled to special considerations
politically correct propaganda encourages this mindset

Oddly enough the Oppressors like the Oppressed
to think like victims, because Victims have "Learned Helplessness"
and are unlikely to reform the Status Quo

Once again See Paulo Firere's Pedagogy of the Oppressed

 

[echoplex]

Political correctness has a troubling capacity to destroy meaning.

 

[grey matters]

Well I'm offended by your use of the word meaning. It contains the word mean which has bad connotations. Instead you should use the words original intent.

And Da Blob how could you be so insensitive as to use the word victim? It makes fun of people with multiple personality disorder. The word victim combines the names Victor (vic) and Tim, the names of two distinct personalities, into one name thus fails to acknowledge their individuality!! Instead it should be, as you said later, "persons entitled to special considerations."

Ahh, I have now successfulluy gotten this thread back off track.

 

[echoplex]

You shouldn't use the word 'bad' either. It offends bad people.

errr, I mean those with moral deficiencies.

 

[Jordan~]

Morally less-able (through no fault of their own!) persons.