Noddy's Rant

[NoID10ts]

I may be totally alone on this, I’ve often felt like a freak even among freaks, but I need to put this into words as much for myself as for anyone else. I may start a shit storm for myself and regret it, but here it goes anyway. I almost posted this in XIII’s “Psychic Powers” thread, but I’m creating a new one to keep from derailing anything and try to keep everyone happy as much as that’s possible.

Over the past few months, I’ve gotten a bit contentious with certain members like XIII, face, Da Blob and a few others (publically, privately, and in my head). I’ve been trying to piece together what it is that gets me so frustrated and it really comes down to authenticity.

In my life I strive to be authentic. I do my best to never put up fronts and to maintain a spirit of honesty and integrity. That being said, I bullshit a lot here, but I think the people who know me, know the difference. Maybe I carry things too far and maybe I make jokes when I shouldn’t, but I almost () never mean harm. Within reason, if someone wants to know anything about me, I’ll be honest and upfront about it. I think I’ve shown that here, as have many of our members.

Authenticity is of the utmost importance to me, and I suspect to a lot of INTP's, especially in a world where everyone seems to be full of shit. I see so many people put up so many fronts and I just get tired of it. I value people who just let it all hang out, who aren’t trying to impress anyone, who aren’t afraid to be wrong, who are wounded, and flawed.

I’ve been a doormat for most of my life, and I’m tired of being looked down on, and walked over, lied to, and taken advantage of. I tend to take the path of least resistance and it is usually easier to be taken advantage of, then fight.

Pathetic but true.

This forum has been an incredibly important place for me, because it has allowed me to be authentic in a way I am not allowed to be in my day to day life. Here, I am allowed to be quirky and have a sick sense of humor and be contentious on issues of faith and spirituality. I can find people who share my disdain of public places and the masses and my general social ineptitude. My whole life, I have been asked to apologize for these things, but here, it’s okay.

This used to be a safe place for people like me.

So when I see new members pop in and act like they are here to school us, and take advantage of us, and give us no reason to trust them, I get pissed. It’s a reflection of the general inauthenticity I am subjected to everywhere else, and it’s like pissing in my spring water, or befouling my temple.

Face never gave us any context, no information, no authenticity. I don’t trust people that have no true, accessible personality. Most of you don't even truly know what sex Face is or their Mbti type or even their age. Doesn't that alarm you? Publically, they were no one; privately, they were whoever you wanted them to be. I’ll almost guarantee you that more than one of you think you know the true face, but if you compared notes with others you would find nothing but falsehoods.

Maybe I’m truly and deeply wrong about that, but it’s what I think.

XIII is similar in some ways. No context, no authenticity. It’s all games and experiments. When XIII first appeared I was interested in what he had to say. I admit I was intrigued. But then the personality shifts, and then the insults (now conveniently deleted), the sudden departure, and the sudden return. Why should I take anything this person says seriously?

Respect has to be earned.

I’ve seen important parts of this community, people I considered friends leave this place. I can’t help but wonder if it’s because of this type of thing. In some cases I know it is. Maybe I have been a contributing factor, but I like to think I've been around here long enough to be trusted.

Ultimately, I think that perhaps it comes down to context. If EB had posted everything XIII had posted, I would listen and consider and engage seriously, because it’s EB and I have a context there. If loveofreason told me she was abducted by aliens (a very real possibility ), I wouldn't make fun of her if I thought she was serious. I might not believe her, but I wouldn't make light of it. Same with Melkor, Nia, Kidege, AI, Ermine, Auburn, Decaf, Snowqueen, Ogion, Anthile, FusionKnight, cryptonia, snail, Jesin, Wisp and the list goes on.

Without context, when someone just appears here and starts bullshitting everyone, how should they expect to be received? If you’re new, take some time to get to know everyone. Build some trust here and let us familiarize ourselves with you a little and vice versa. You wouldn’t just walk into a party and say “fuck you all I’m here and that’s all that matters”, would you? Read though people’s old posts; get to know their quirks and maybe try and see where their boundaries are.

I'm shocked that people roll in here, heavy handed, and then wonder why they get labeled trolls and are met with some disdain. And usually the people who support these miscreants are new themselves and also lack the context to make an informed judgment.

And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against new people. We were all new at one time. Just take some time to get to know us. Some of us take this place seriously. Some of us need it. Why would you take pleasure in destroying that?

Maybe I have no right to say anything, maybe I am alone on this island, but I just needed to articulate this while it was fresh on my mind.

I will receive all my hate mail here in my sewer abode, but I can't promise you I will read it.

Peace, if there be such a thing.

 

[Fedayeen]

I agree with you to some extent. At the very least I can understand why you have a problem with it the way you do.

I agree 100% on the part about the good old days and such.

Also that was the longest post I have read entirely, in a VERY long time

 

[Sapphire Harp]

Thank you for saying that, N~.
​

 

[Weliddryn]

This forum seems to of helped a lot of people. Sometimes, it seems, in helping people, it is damaged in the process....

(I target no one in particular with this post, it is simply an observation in general terms.)

 

[Fukyo]

Nice post Noddy.

I'm sure many people will be able to relate to what you've said,in some way or form.

 

[Kidege]

I may be totally alone on this

You are not.

Over the past few months, I’ve gotten a bit contentious with certain members like XIII, face, Da Blob and a few others (publically, privately, and in my head). I’ve been trying to piece together what it is that gets me so frustrated and it really comes down to authenticity.

So have I. Mostly in my head, I try very hard not to insult anyone here. But other people have expressed similar opinions in the IRC. I would imagine they keep it to themselves because they don't want to be insulting.

In my life I strive to be authentic. I do my best to never put up fronts and to maintain a spirit of honesty and integrity. That being said, I bullshit a lot here, but I think the people who know me, know the difference.

I know, it shows. It took months for me to learn to tell the difference but it does show.
We even had a small misunderstanding, but you were patient and we fixed it quickly.

Authenticity is of the utmost importance to me, and I suspect to a lot of INTP's, especially in a world where everyone seems to be full of shit. I see so many people put up so many fronts and I just get tired of it. I value people who just let it all hang out, who aren’t trying to impress anyone, who aren’t afraid to be wrong, who are wounded, and flawed.

This is why this place, in its golden age, was a very supportive place with lots of self-disclosure. This is why people like me dared to talk about being suicidal, or about being chased, or about seeing odd stuff.

I am thankful for the friends I've made here, and I hope that, no matter what happens to the forum, I can remain in touch with them.

Face never gave us any context, no information, no authenticity.

*Cringes* too true.

XIII is similar in some ways. No context, no authenticity. It’s all games and experiments. When XIII first appeared I was interested in what he had to say. I admit I was intrigued. But then the personality shifts, and then the insults (now conveniently deleted), the sudden departure, and the sudden return. Why should I take anything this person says seriously?

So was I. Intrigued, that is. I didn't know about the insults. If I had I wouldn't take time to consider his posts.

Respect has to be earned.

I’ve seen important parts of this community, people I considered friends leave this place. I can’t help but wonder if it’s because of this type of thing. In some cases I know it is. Maybe I have been a contributing factor, but I like to think I've been around here long enough to be trusted.

*sighs*
Try to bring them back, Noddy. We won't fix it if we don't bring the good posters back.
Quality's improved now that Nia, Waterstiller, Jennywocky, AI and EB are around.

Ultimately, I think that perhaps it comes down to context. If EB had posted everything XIII had posted, I would listen and consider and engage seriously, because it’s EB and I have a context there. If loveofreason told me she was abducted by aliens (a very real possibility ), I wouldn't make fun of her if I thought she was serious. I might not believe her, but I wouldn't make light of it. Same with Melkor, Nia, Kidege, AI, Ermine, Auburn, Decaf, Snowqueen, Ogion, Anthile, FusionKnight, cryptonia, snail, Jesin, Wisp and the list goes on.

Thanks

I'm shocked that people roll in here, heavy handed, and then wonder why they get labeled trolls and are met with some disdain. And usually the people who support these miscreants are new themselves and also lack the context to make an informed judgment.

I think the days of trolling might be over. It's getting quieter now that some people have left (no names to avoid insulting, not as much that people but the other members who deserve a better atmosphere).

Some of us take this place seriously. Some of us need it

Some of us will have to be kicked out of this place screaming bloody murder. I'm not giving up my place. Hope you aren't, either.

 

[Ermine]

Thanks Noddy. You certainly aren't alone. I may not have been mixed up in this decline, but something has to be done. Back in the day, this was a private place where I trusted 99% of the members. There was an occasional spammer every once in a while, but no insults, no harmful or ingenuine facades. Now the percentage is currently about 80%. I understand that this is characteristic for a quickly expanding forum, but this forum is still relatively small and can still be turned around. I also understand that with the relative anonymity of the internet, people may or may not project their real personality. However, in a forum of INTPs, I expect better than that. We value and uphold authenticity, and everyone here deserves the authenticity they project. I am more "myself" here than I am in most other place, and I know that many other members here can sincerely say the same thing. Considering these circumstances, I would like to be allowed the same treatment that I give to everyone else.

 

[fullerene]

I didn't realize how right you were about good chunks of this until about 3/4 down I realized exactly what "nobody" beat me to saying--that this was the first post of this length that I read straight through in a very, very long time. I dunno if I'm ready to blame those people for it, yet, but I certainly agree that respect has to be earned--and a lot of new-ish people never even tried--and that I would listen and seriously consider much more outlandish ideas from the people who I know better.

I'm not entirely sure about the problem being 'inauthenticity', though. Some people might just be authentically assholes, or authentically "native-tongue-is-a-lie" . I do see how people who show no respect are irritating when they 'play victim' after not being given any, though.

 

[flow]

I think they call this 'real talk' in the hip hop world. Noddy I'm always relieved to see any of your posts/threads, they can truly be diamonds in the ruff.

New Users: Be genuine.

 

[EloquentBohemian]

A community such as this Forum is a microcosm of any society in the real world and as such, enfolds a vast variety of individuals within it borders. The premise to be adopted when entering this abode - and it is an abode for those who have come to appreciate, respect and honour loveofreason and the Forum she maintains - should be one of respect as well.

Though I am not Buddhist, if I enter a Buddhist tea house, the tradition is to remove ones footwear. I remove my footwear out of respect for the Buddhist tradition which has welcomed me to participate in its experience. As well, I am mindful of the other traditions present in this abode, the single scroll on the wall with a vase of flowers arranged in accordance with ikebana, the intricate cracks in the tea bowl set before me which my hosts treasure, the quiet significance of the few words passed between my hosts, their other guests and myself. This is the atmosphere and reality of this experience.
I do not rise and wander around. I refrain from touching the treasured scroll. I do not play with the flower arrangement because I think I could arrange it better. I do not insult or argue with the hosts or guests.
I remain still, my self, but my self with the respect of those who are their selves as well.

One entering this Forum must pause and realise what form and tradition lies within, not because one should or because one has to, but for the simple fact that it was here before one.

I consider this Forum loveorreason's home which she has opened up to welcome others to congregate, to discuss and debate subjects of interest, to have fun and to get to know each other, all of which may bring about lasting friendships. I enter this home and take my shoes off in respect for loveofreason and her guests because I know that I am her guest as well.

And in that respect, namaste, loveofreason.

 

[Kuu]

Authenticity is of the utmost importance to me, and I suspect to a lot of INTP's, especially in a world where everyone seems to be full of shit. I see so many people put up so many fronts and I just get tired of it. I value people who just let it all hang out, who aren’t trying to impress anyone, who aren’t afraid to be wrong, who are wounded, and flawed.

(...)

This forum has been an incredibly important place for me, because it has allowed me to be authentic in a way I am not allowed to be in my day to day life. Here, I am allowed to be quirky and have a sick sense of humor and be contentious on issues of faith and spirituality. I can find people who share my disdain of public places and the masses and my general social ineptitude. My whole life, I have been asked to apologize for these things, but here, it’s okay.

This used to be a safe place for people like me.

So when I see new members pop in and act like they are here to school us, and take advantage of us, and give us no reason to trust them, I get pissed. It’s a reflection of the general inauthenticity I am subjected to everywhere else, and it’s like pissing in my spring water, or befouling my temple.

(...)

Without context, when someone just appears here and starts bullshitting everyone, how should they expect to be received? If you’re new, take some time to get to know everyone. Build some trust here and let us familiarize ourselves with you a little and vice versa. You wouldn’t just walk into a party and say “fuck you all I’m here and that’s all that matters”, would you? Read though people’s old posts; get to know their quirks and maybe try and see where their boundaries are.

I'm shocked that people roll in here, heavy handed, and then wonder why they get labeled trolls and are met with some disdain. And usually the people who support these miscreants are new themselves and also lack the context to make an informed judgment.

And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against new people. We were all new at one time. Just take some time to get to know us. Some of us take this place seriously. Some of us need it. Why would you take pleasure in destroying that?

These are certainly shared feelings among several of us. We all go crazy once in a while, but that's within boundaries both invisible and visible. I think some large percentage of the newb population failed to realize that.

For some people, this is just another forum that they just happened to sumble upon. But for us, it is much more than that.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i don't think its the inauthentic thing so much as the idea of outsiders attempting to infiltrate an established clique. i think the 'old school' members sort of have that sense of "the audacity of these outsiders" when newer people come in and start trying to impart their views on people in a blunt manner. in all honesty, i think INTP's are probably one of the most clique-y types there are, since close personal relationships are more important to us then many loose acquaintances, so when outsiders come in and try to behave towards the established members that way, our natural reaction is to withdraw and push them further outside the cirlce.

 

[Felan]

I'm not really crazy about XIII's latest posts. But he does get people talking. I think I post genuine stuff for the most part and I don't really seem to generate much interest in stuff. So I guess he is doing something right.

 

[Kidege]

Um, I appreciate the threads you made, Felan. Particularly the wonderment one, but I found myself at a loss for words to reply. Do not despair, k?

 

[Felan]

Um, I appreciate the threads you made, Felan. Particularly the wonderment one, but I found myself at a loss for words to reply. Do not despair, k?

Thanks its good to hear.

 

[Kuu]

i don't think its the inauthentic thing so much as the idea of outsiders attempting to infiltrate an established clique. i think the 'old school' members sort of have that sense of "the audacity of these outsiders" when newer people come in and start trying to impart their views on people in a blunt manner. in all honesty, i think INTP's are probably one of the most clique-y types there are, since close personal relationships are more important to us then many loose acquaintances, so when outsiders come in and try to behave towards the established members that way, our natural reaction is to withdraw and push them further outside the cirlce.

I don't think that's quite it (though it might be). To me it seems more about the bluntness then the other-ness of the new members. Indeed, a lot of new members have integrated just fine. But some others...

When I joined, all members were peaceful, tactful, open, straightforward, and honest. Lately, there has been an absence of those things that I appreciate(d) about here. Being brutally honest doesn't mean you have to be crass and insulting.

EDIT: Oh my, I didn't saw EBs post on the previous page. Everything that he said is exactly how I feel about these matters.

 

[cheese]

I liked the OP but I think cryptonia and AI had good (contending) points as well.

Some users might not actually know who they are, making "authenticity" difficult. XIII (leaving the user aside) has addressed this from another angle - that the self is constructed, its boundaries arbitrarily drawn. Authenticity isn't even really an issue in this case.

This is all probably useless crap, sorry. My mind is jumbled and confused.

 

[Kidege]

To be frank I think the worst is over.
We're frazzled but we survived.

Nothing like setting the example to keep a good thing going.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

Personally, I think there is another lens this can be seen through. Rather than authenticity, I think about accountability.

So often on the internet people will enter a community and let their ego run wild, doing whatever they like... and when the consequences become too great, they say the hell with it and move on. It's their privilege to not be troubled any further.

This is not to suggest the users we've had are so extreme, but facets of their behavior certainly demonstrate this kind of thinking. If someone disagrees, such users will turn on that person with contempt and it's no big deal... They want to stay, but their viewpoint's or manner's desire to not compromise is more important than assimilating into a community.

I think that's why articles noting that employers are searching the internet to screen prospective employees frighten a lot of people. (Similar example) The ability to connect names, profiles, and screennames together is only going to grow... Eventually there will be a search engine which will scour the internet and put together a very accurate list of many things you have done online in public areas...

On one hand, it's frightening to think that someone examining me may come across this site and the others I have participated in and judge me for it, but it's also part of what guides my behavior here. I would be a bit unnerved to be confronted in person by someone greatly aware of my posts here... but after a moments reflection I realize that I'm perfectly willing to stand by all of what I write here. If there are misunderstandings, it's unfortunate, but I think the spirit of what I do is right... or at least understandable.
​

 

[NoID10ts]

I appreciate all the comments thus far. Thanks for not berating me too much. As mean as I am, I'm really very soft and sensitive on the inside.

i don't think its the inauthentic thing so much as the idea of outsiders attempting to infiltrate an established clique. i think the 'old school' members sort of have that sense of "the audacity of these outsiders" when newer people come in and start trying to impart their views on people in a blunt manner. in all honesty, i think INTP's are probably one of the most clique-y types there are, since close personal relationships are more important to us then many loose acquaintances, so when outsiders come in and try to behave towards the established members that way, our natural reaction is to withdraw and push them further outside the cirlce.

I'm sure some older members do feel this way. But I can say, in all honesty, that I don't. I don't mind new people at all. We were all new here at one time. And really, the vast majority of people don't bother me in the least. It's the ones who come here and deliberately deceive and manipulate that really provoke me. Unfortunately, they often end up being some of the most prolific posters and the most divisive. Look at how they split the forum and cause havok.

To a lesser extent, I have a problem with the ones who try to be clever and go on the offensive immediately without knowing the history of the person they are addressing. I would get frustrated with blob for instance, because from the very beginning he would give me these flippant and condescending little remarks about Christianity without even knowing the long and intimate history I have had with that faith.

But, I digress.

I'm not really crazy about XIII's latest posts. But he does get people talking. I think I post genuine stuff for the most part and I don't really seem to generate much interest in stuff. So I guess he is doing something right.

He gets people talking the way a tabloid or a gossip gets people talking. This isn't network tv. We don't need ratings.

And I agree, you are genuine. I read your posts and you haven't made me tear out too many clumps of hair yet.

I liked the OP but I think cryptonia and AI had good (contending) points as well.

Some users might not actually know who they are, making "authenticity" difficult. XIII (leaving the user aside) has addressed this from another angle - that the self is constructed, its boundaries arbitrarily drawn. Authenticity isn't even really an issue in this case.

This is all probably useless crap, sorry. My mind is jumbled and confused.

I understand this, and the theory is an interesting one, I think most of us will agree. But who is XIII when he looks in the mirror? Does he get depressed like the rest of us? Does he have social anxieties? Insecurities? What makes him happy? What are his goals and aspirations?

These are things that can't be faked. These things make us who we are, and if he doesn't experience these things, then perhaps he isn't human. If he isn't human, he's in the wrong place. Deconstruct personality if you want. Experiment if you want. But why should the whole forum be his playground?

I may be a pig, but I'm not a guinea pig.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

How authentic are we all being here?
I've personally shared some aspects of myself here that I would otherwise keep hidden, thoughts and feelings that I've never shared anywhere else. However there is much of myself that I've kept hidden, I've consciously projected a somewhat limited and highly characterised version of myself to keep my true self hidden. Hiding behind this character has given me the freedom to explore some topics of personal interest without fear of personal reprisal, without being "known"; letting the people here judge only my fictional self whilst I stay safe behind it, pulling the strings.

Has anyone here been 100% honest in their personality?

Should we keep ourselves secret, or should we risk truly being hurt?

If I have been using the people here as entertainment whilst they themselves have been honestly baring their true self to me, then I cannot apologize enough.
I fear I may have abused the trust of this community.

 

[Auburn]

*voice reply*

 

[loveofreason]

Auburn!!!

 

[XIII]

You may not like my posts, but please don't call them ''tabloid''. All of my OPs have been carefully constructed, with the intent to be useful to those with contextual flexibility (perhaps I failed in that)-- it's generally the discussion afterward that could, in some respects, be called ''tabloid''. If you doubt this, read back through them.

I also don't appreciate how you've posted all around the forum throwing random insults, NoID10ts. I do not see how anything I have done is equivalent to that. Whatever you may say, I have generally tried to explain my actions and answer questions rationally if not confronted with outright hostility (which you have exhibited, both actively and passively by derailing threads which are meaningful). I find it highly hypocritical for you to post unqualified insults and then write what you have in this thread.

----------------------

''I think strangers are what breaks apart communities'' ''I do have something against strangers''

--Auburn

Wow.

------------------

With regards to comments about ''integration'' and such, I could not have gone about things in any other way without being dishonest (or altering the entire structure of my overarching personality). I did, in fact, post about the theoretical aspects of my experiment long before I emulated here, and, when I did, I chose a very friendly character to attempt to minimise disruption or hard feeling. I also posted my deepest thoughts in 'The Only Truth I've Told', which, to me, qualifies as an attempt to share myself and be honest in a way which I haven't before. I'm not sure what phantom crime you're accusing me of, as you have not provided evidence or allowed for a defense before making your judgments.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

sorry, don't have time to read through it all (school soon) but i agree totally with the weirdness of Face and XIII, but whats wrong with Da Blob?!

correct me if i misread

 

[Sapphire Harp]

sorry, don't have time to read through it all (school soon) but i agree totally with the weirdness of Face and XIII, but whats wrong with Da Blob?!

correct me if i misread

If I understand right, the principle complaint, in this context, was that Da Blob threw around assertions dismissing N~'s viewpoints on Christianity, claiming N~'s knowledge and understanding of Christianity was inferior to Da Blob's.

N~ had publicly posted his impressively extensive background in Christianity in his 'about you' listing, and probably more places besides that.

It relates to this thread in that it's a case of someone new(ish) not taking any time to understand who they were talking with before trying to degrade and dismiss their right and ability to assert a valid opinion on the religion. Because it was a drastic mis-appraisal of N~ it was bound to come across as insulting.

i don't think its the inauthentic thing so much as the idea of outsiders attempting to infiltrate an established clique. i think the 'old school' members sort of have that sense of "the audacity of these outsiders" when newer people come in and start trying to impart their views on people in a blunt manner. in all honesty, i think INTP's are probably one of the most clique-y types there are, since close personal relationships are more important to us then many loose acquaintances, so when outsiders come in and try to behave towards the established members that way, our natural reaction is to withdraw and push them further outside the cirlce.

Agent Intellect, I disagree with you on this. My entire time, from the moment I joined the forum last October until now, not once did I perceive anyone pushing me out of the group. At first, I felt like I could have had a greater response to some posts I made, but that's only natural. As far as I can recognize, the only negative responses I've received were ones I very clearly provoked when I ran out of patience.

Tekton said precisely this, but I wanted to second it because I feel it's important to emphasize it because I think it's still far from the norm for new users to marginalized. Or it's still not the acceptable norm, anyway.

* * * * *
​

''I think strangers are what breaks apart communities'' ''I do have something against strangers''
--Auburn

Wow.

Don't try to degrade Auburn by taking things out of context. Everyone else, please listen to the whole message before judging on this extract.
​

 

[XIII]

My posts below are meant to display that the OP has exhibited as much ''disruptive'' and ''divisive' behavior as anybody within the last 24 hours. All posts were made today or yesterday. I have attempted to reply in as measured manner as possible in the respective threads (see the Thomas Young or Psychic Powers thread if you wish to verify this).

This in a thread completely unrelated to me:

I'm not sure why, but XIII made me think of one of my favorite dark movies of all time, Se7en. Some quotes for your enjoyment:

"He's a nut-bag! Just because the fucker's got a library card doesn't make him Yoda!"

"C'mon, he's insane. Look. Right now he's probably dancing around in his grandma's panties, yeah, rubbing himself in peanut butter."

"I've been trying to figure something in my head, and maybe you can help me out, yeah? When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you're insane? Maybe you're just sitting around, reading "Guns and Ammo", masturbating in your own feces, do you just stop and go, "Wow! It is amazing how fucking crazy I really am!"? Yeah. Do you guys do that?"



EDIT: I see someone already mentioned Se7en. Oh well, just enjoy the quotes.

This also in a thread unrelated to me:

XIII kind of reminds me of Thomas Young with the circular logic and I just know that I know and you would know if you would accept my word shit. He just hasn't made fallatio remarks to any of our younger female members and gotten himself banned yet.

At least none that I know of.

All this in a serious thread:

Dammit. Must stop scratching the rash. It's only getting worse.

It's been suggested that I'm closed minded on this forum before, but I maintain that being open minded doesn't have to mean being gullible or deluded.

must ........ stop ...... scratching ..........

I do understand how reality works and its limits and you are absolutely wrong about everything. I know this because it has been revealed to me through spiritual channels you can't even fathom.

Just because this is your opinion doesn't mean it's right. I still have it on good auithority from spiritual channels you cannot even fathom, that you are completely and utterly wrong. You would know...

It's annoying right?

I'll stop scratching the rash now. Maybe.

He has also posted what amounts to slander: posting that I have deleted many ''insults''. This is untrue. I deleted much of XIII2, but the vast majority of those posts were amiable. The only ones which could be interpreted as ''insulting'' were a discourse with snowqueen (a discussion initiated by a very insulting post from her), and they were not as malignant as anything I have quoted above.


-------------

Don't try to degrade Auburn by taking things out of context. Everyone else, please listen to the whole message before judging on this extract.

Was not intended this way. Apologies for not making myself clearer: I was expressing surprise. Regardless-- yes, please listen to the whole message instead of forming any opinion based upon my quotes.

 

[snowqueen]

Noddy, thank you for your OP which was a genuine attempt to address constructively the issue a lot of us are grappling with.

I was touched that you named me on your list. If anything proves how welcoming this forum is to stray INTPs it is the way you've all made space for this opinionated, grumpy, eccentric, middle aged iconoclast.

i don't think its the inauthentic thing so much as the idea of outsiders attempting to infiltrate an established clique. i think the 'old school' members sort of have that sense of "the audacity of these outsiders" when newer people come in and start trying to impart their views on people in a blunt manner. in all honesty, i think INTP's are probably one of the most clique-y types there are, since close personal relationships are more important to us then many loose acquaintances, so when outsiders come in and try to behave towards the established members that way, our natural reaction is to withdraw and push them further outside the cirlce.

When you say 'that way' I'm not 100% sure what you mean but I don't think it's to do with posting in a blunt manner. Gluon, for example, posted his theory of introverted social underworlds and had quite a blunt manner but when one questions him he responds in a 'real' manner (and explained his 'bluntness' in a really poignant way). I think this is the distinction which Auburn is trying to make in his lovely voicepost. He says that he 'has nothing against new people, he just doesn't like "strangers"'. Auburn also makes the point that strangers are people who 'are not really interested in being part of the community, but just using it for their own purposes'. In that, I agree 100% with Auburn. They are the ones reluctant to engage with people trying to get to know them, reject or ridicule attempts to engage if they aren't simply adulatory, or simply cause chaos for the sake of it without that playful engagement that characterises the 'fun' section or Arena. 'New people' pop their head round the door or burst through it but pretty soon they relax and start to engage and this place is incredibly welcoming (but not in a cloying way of course!).

The question I keep having in my mind with the type of people Noddy has drawn attention to is Why? Why are you here and not somewhere else? If you are not interested in being part of the community and getting to know people here then what are you doing? Why have you chosen this particular place as your 'stage'? I'm reluctant to go down the INTP vs non-INTP route too much but I joined this forum to meet other INTPs and through that to learn and share. I didn't join to learn from other types - I go to Personality Cafe for that. I also wonder what on earth people who say they have no interest in Myers Briggs and diss it are doing here? Why are they not on INTP central or the INTJ forum or forming their own forum to suit their interests? Why have we been selected as their 'audience'??

And really, the vast majority of people don't bother me in the least. It's the ones who come here and deliberately deceive and manipulate that really provoke me. Unfortunately, they often end up being some of the most prolific posters and the most divisive. Look at how they split the forum and cause havok.

They force people to take sides which is so totally un-INTP in nature. We like to entertain all sides. Our disagreements are not dogmatic they are dialectic and synthetic. By that I mean we do not have to be right (though I usually am of course) (unless you provide a convincing counter-argument and then I'll listen)(and now I'm arguing from your point of view) (and I notice you are arguing with my point of view elsewhere on the forum) (oh and now we're creating a new argument together).


So here's the thing - as INTPs are we particularly susceptible as a community to this kind of ... abuse is probably too strong ... misuse of our community? Is there something we should do differently to make the purpose and culture of this community clearer and create some boundaries?

 

[didyouknow]

Excellent posts, everyone.

I never really posted my real reason for coming here. I have said a few times that I wanted to learn about being an INTP and how to survive in the world. The real reason was I came here in November last year and found an absolutely amazing place. I was shocked by the honesty, the humor and the insight. It was like finally getting into heaven. It seemed silly to say that though. So why am I saying it now?

Though I'm new, I have seen this forum change in a similar manner as expressed above. I never really noticed until I found myself scared to post things for fear of being ridiculed or manipulated. Then came the next revelation. If I cannot be accepted even here, then where can I be accepted?

And now I start to question again. Have I contributed to this? Have I overstepped my boundaries? Have I unknowingly insulted another member? If so I would like to apologise for I was not aware. If someone finds this to be the case, please pm me. I hope I have not caused any troubles as a newcomer.

 

[NoID10ts]

XIII, You are right about the insults, it was hypocritical of me. I get frustrated and I lash out. I did this to Blob as well and I shouldn't do that. I tend to try and use humor for a myriad of things, but it can get acidic if I'm annoyed at the time. Kidege and cryptonia pointed it out and I created this thread to try and express my thoughts constructively. I've also received a slap on the wrist from the forum for the insults.

Maybe I failed and shouldn't have started this, but there's nothing I can do about it now.

I think I recognized before that I am probably part of the problem, maybe even a part of the original problem and for that I'm sorry.

How authentic are we all being here?
I've personally shared some aspects of myself here that I would otherwise keep hidden, thoughts and feelings that I've never shared anywhere else. However there is much of myself that I've kept hidden, I've consciously projected a somewhat limited and highly characterised version of myself to keep my true self hidden. Hiding behind this character has given me the freedom to explore some topics of personal interest without fear of personal reprisal, without being "known"; letting the people here judge only my fictional self whilst I stay safe behind it, pulling the strings.

Has anyone here been 100% honest in their personality?

Should we keep ourselves secret, or should we risk truly being hurt?

If I have been using the people here as entertainment whilst they themselves have been honestly baring their true self to me, then I cannot apologize enough.
I fear I may have abused the trust of this community.

But there is trust there, Cog. You don't have to reveal all your deepest darkest secrets. Anyone who know you, knows you are a genuine friend. They know that you aren't here to make sport of us or laugh behind our backs or talk down to us. It's hard to define. Many of us have a duality here, I guess. But we can tell the real from the pretend. It's true of you and Melkor and I hope it's true of me.

In my opinion, it's okay to have fun and cast insults and mean jokes as long as there is context. There are certain members that I don't give a bad time, because I don't know how they will take it. I can be as mean as hell to you and Melkor and love because I know that you will respond in kind and we'll all laugh about it.

 

[Anthile]

For me, trust is the Alpha and the Omega in any relationship. Even in the relationship to an online forum what many people wouldn't even call real.
If I cannot trust the people around here, the whole board becomes meaningless.
When I read postings here I don't feel like asking myself if those postings are true or perfidious lies. I don't feel like playing any messed up psycho games. If you have such an urge to play go to the next retirement home and play bridge with the old people there. They will certainly appreciate it.
I am not a very demanding person but there is one thing I demand from everyone: honesty. Don't get me wrong, there is a huge difference between "I don't want to tell" which is absolutely okay and lying about oneself, which is just unacceptable.
Here are many persons I care about and even call my friends. The atmosphere here has been severely corrupted in the last days and weeks.

Respectless creatures, like Face or XIII, which only can be born from the darkest depths of the internet with no personality whatsoever and zero interest in the forum. They came here not as potential friends but as intruders. At least, that's what most people here think. Not sure if they just don't get enough attention and respect in real life. Maybe we also see the Broken Window Theory in action.
They may have not been banned from the forum but they have been already banned from the very soul of this board.

 

[Felan]

You may not like my posts, but please don't call them ''tabloid''. All of my OPs have been carefully constructed, with the intent to be useful to those with contextual flexibility (perhaps I failed in that)-- it's generally the discussion afterward that could, in some respects, be called ''tabloid''. If you doubt this, read back through them.

I also don't appreciate how you've posted all around the forum throwing random insults, NoID10ts. I do not see how anything I have done is equivalent to that. Whatever you may say, I have generally tried to explain my actions and answer questions rationally if not confronted with outright hostility (which you have exhibited, both actively and passively by derailing threads which are meaningful). I find it highly hypocritical for you to post unqualified insults and then write what you have in this thread.

''The many derogatory and dismissive comments you make in the OP and follow up posts suggest to me that you are not the powerful communicator you believe''

You assume that the recieved communication was not the intended one, and that highly developed communication skills are necessarily used to *make* connecitons, instead of being used to more diverse and veiled ends. Limited perspective. Thoughtless.

Actually XIII I think you have admitted to making at least one tabloid post as you seem to be saying here that you are intentionally trying to shock people with your derogatory and dismissive comments.

 

[saffyangelis]

I’ve been a doormat for most of my life, and I’m tired of being looked down on, and walked over, lied to, and taken advantage of. I tend to take the path of least resistance and it is usually easier to be taken advantage of, then fight.

Pathetic but true.

It's not pathetic, I don't know about the rest of you lot, but I tend to do that too. It's easier to back down then fight when they aren't defending than fight right from the start.

This forum has been an incredibly important place for me, because it has allowed me to be authentic in a way I am not allowed to be in my day to day life. Here, I am allowed to be quirky and have a sick sense of humor and be contentious on issues of faith and spirituality. I can find people who share my disdain of public places and the masses and my general social ineptitude. My whole life, I have been asked to apologize for these things, but here, it’s okay.

This used to be a safe place for people like me.

Maybe it still can be, sooner or later. I think quite a few people are feeling like that, so if we all manage to make a decision, maybe we can actually do something about it? If we manage to stop procrastinating for long enough =P

Ultimately, I think that perhaps it comes down to context. If EB had posted everything XIII had posted, I would listen and consider and engage seriously, because it’s EB and I have a context there. If loveofreason told me she was abducted by aliens (a very real possibility ), I wouldn't make fun of her if I thought she was serious. I might not believe her, but I wouldn't make light of it. Same with Melkor, Nia, Kidege, AI, Ermine, Auburn, Decaf, Snowqueen, Ogion, Anthile, FusionKnight, cryptonia, snail, Jesin, Wisp and the list goes on.

*sighs*
I'm always left off the lists. (=P)

I'm sort-of losing track of what I was thinking when I first clicked the reply bit, 'cos I got distracted... and I ended up doing a load of other stuff while I was meaning to reply... so I'll just shut up now, and edit it later maybe...

That's kinda annoying, 'cos I had something I wanted to say, but I can't remember what it was... but I promise, no hate mail over this thread from me, okay Noddy? =P

*gags herself with some duct tape and walks off*

EDIT: I just realised I didn't really say much here... maybe if I remember what I wanted to say, it'll actually be a decent post... Sorry... =/

 

[NoID10ts]

I didn't mean to leave you off the list. There are many that I could have included there but didn't. I just fired off some names that came to mind. You know I love you all equally and have no favorites.

 

[fullerene]

Don't listen to him, saffy. Everyone knows I'm his favorite. That's why he tries to demolish my reputation to the newcomers every chance he gets--he wants me all to himself

 

[saffyangelis]

Don't listen to him, saffy. Everyone knows I'm his favorite. That's why he tries to demolish my reputation to the newcomers every chance he gets--he wants me all to himself

You might want to call Snail then, get her to hire a bodyguard.

After all, if you abandoned him to go and visit her again, you don't know what he might do....*shifty eyes*

=P

 

[fullerene]

It's alright. Only two people know where she lives (any more accurately than the state she's in), neither of them on this forum, and I believe that I'm the only one who knows her real name. I think at this point, I'd be more likely to endanger her life by hiring a bodyguard who may or may not be working for noddy than I would letting her anonymity protect her.

I very much appreciate the concern, though

 

[Kidege]

I very much fear that any favorite of Noddy is required to dance with veils and maybe even candles, so you might want to think twice before claiming that title

 

[fullerene]

nah... he's actually got a soft spot for backbone. It's how I keep asserting my rights that he can't get enough of.

 

[Kidege]

Ho Yay!

 

[Fukyo]

Ho Yay!

Damn.

 

[EloquentBohemian]

With regards to comments about ''integration'' and such, I could not have gone about things in any other way without being dishonest (or altering the entire structure of my overarching personality). I did, in fact, post about the theoretical aspects of my experiment long before I emulated here, and, when I did, I chose a very friendly character to attempt to minimise disruption or hard feeling.

I will state here that this (experiment) thread of yours was the one which attracted me the most to you. The theoretical foundation for what you were speaking about was not unheard of to me. Though I noticed a few aspects of your "overarching personality (a fine descriptive phrase, btw)", it was your exposition of the experiemnt which caused me to dig deeper into this thread. I found it fascinating. And then it disappeared, which disappointed me.

Granted, we do have disagreements on other threads, but I think I refrain from personal derogatory insinuations or attacks and focus on what is being said and my impressions of the subject matter. If I have stepped over that fluid line, certainly tell me so and take me to task for it. We all have different personalities. Even I can be self-aggrandising at times. (...even perfection has its flaws )

Concerning the 'True Meaning of Life' thread, in reference to this discussion, it was the tone of the OP which ruffled me. In reflection, I could have seen it in terms of irony, but I didn't. Perhaps my failing.

I think this is the distinction which Auburn is trying to make in his lovely voicepost. He says that he 'has nothing against new people, he just doesn't like "strangers"'. Auburn also makes the point that strangers are people who 'are not really interested in being part of the community, but just using it for their own purposes'. In that, I agree 100% with Auburn. They are the ones reluctant to engage with people trying to get to know them, reject or ridicule attempts to engage if they aren't simply adulatory, or simply cause chaos for the sake of it without that playful engagement that characterises the 'fun' section or Arena. 'New people' pop their head round the door or burst through it but pretty soon they relax and start to engage and this place is incredibly welcoming (but not in a cloying way of course!).

I will agree with this. When I first arrived, after reading multiple posts and deciding that this was a community I would like to become acquainted with and perhaps eventually become a part of, I would watch a thread and become accustomed to how certain people spoke. My attitude was to adapt to the community, not have the communit adapt to me. This is how one becomes a part of an environment which support one and possible nurtures one's growth. I began to have an understanding of the personalities of some people here and would act accordingly, which doesn't mean that I altered my fundamental nature, only that I began to relate individually to individuals.

The question I keep having in my mind with the type of people Noddy has drawn attention to is Why? Why are you here and not somewhere else? If you are not interested in being part of the community and getting to know people here then what are you doing? Why have you chosen this particular place as your 'stage'? I'm reluctant to go down the INTP vs non-INTP route too much but I joined this forum to meet other INTPs and through that to learn and share. I didn't join to learn from other types...

"...I joined this forum to meet other INTPs and through that to learn and share." This is exactly why I became a member of this particular Forum. I desired to interact with others who were INTP to understand myself better by encountering those traits and idiocyncrasies we would have in common. I'm not implying a 'clique' or such, as interaction between those who show INTP characteristics and other types is just as beneficial, but it is those of 'like-mind' which attracted me more.

They force people to take sides which is so totally un-INTP in nature. We like to entertain all sides. Our disagreements are not dogmatic they are dialectic and synthetic.

Precisely.

So here's the thing - as INTPs are we particularly susceptible as a community to this kind of ... abuse is probably too strong ... misuse of our community? Is there something we should do differently to make the purpose and culture of this community clearer and create some boundaries?

An excellent observation and subsequent question.

For me, trust is the Alpha and the Omega in any relationship. Even in the relationship to an online forum what many people wouldn't even call real.
If I cannot trust the people around here, the whole board becomes meaningless.

I echo this. Relationships are built slowly through mutual trust.

 

[NoID10ts]

criptoneya iz my favrits. he got a purty mouth. i iz gonna ty up snails and put hers in da bazmint an keep criptoneya all to myself.

 

[snowqueen]

criptoneya iz my favrits. he got a purty mouth. i iz gonna ty up snails and put hers in da bazmint an keep criptoneya all to myself.

Glad to see you're feeling better!

 

[Artifice Orisit]

In my opinion, it's okay to have fun and cast insults and mean jokes as long as there is context. There are certain members that I don't give a bad time, because I don't know how they will take it. I can be as mean as hell to you and Melkor and love because I know that you will respond in kind and we'll all laugh about it.

Damn you Noddy, you made me shed a tear!

 

[Venture]

This forum is the first website that I have been most "open" about.
There has been a few others where I had not been my self at all
such as youtube, this is the first forum I've ever joined or participated in.

I didn't really understand how much some people took this forum, not that I have taken it as a joke or useless forum. I do appeciate it very very much.

I am glad you posted this, now I understand a bit better.

I havn't yet participated in major arguments nor did really post any of my major views I have.

But if I have done anything In my past posts, I do apologize

 

[Tyria]

I'm just glad we seem to be coming back together again

Stress and tension are not good for posting and having fun here... I think everyone enjoys a relaxed atmosphere. If I could find a picture of a really nice beach I'd post it here...

 

[Venture]

How do you post pictures without giving the url?

 

[Waterstiller]

Moderators.. do what you need to do and trust your intuition. You're the heart of this place. The reason this place is so special is because you set it apart.



(and Lord of Reason.. don't lose your voice here. Anywhere but here. You should always be able to speak in your own home. <3)

 

[loveofreason]

I'm observing...

The larger a group gets the less I speak, because - among many things - I want to learn.

This forum has been one of only two instances/places in my life that I have had a voice. Learning to 'speak' has been one of the gifts this place has granted.

For it to continue as such a place for all that come here we must all be prepared to listen.