# Intp~the perfect criminal?

#### Da Blob

##### Banned
Actually The INTJ is the better profile for a 'perfect' criminal. Oddly, enough I actually know something about this topic. My last job was as a Counselor in a prison and one of the first things I did with a new 'client' was to give them an MBTI-type test. (Unfortunately, I was shut down by Admin. once they found out) It was a great lead-in to a therapeutic relationship.
I did not have many INTJs, they usually don't become incarcerated,they have underlings take most of the risks for them. The few that I had were high-ranking king pins who who were betrayed by one or more of their subordinates..
I only remember two INTPs, they were both meth addicts, who started using in order to work longer hours, they were both middle-aged men who owned their own businesses at the time they became addicted.
One thing I noticed was the tremendous difference between the ISTJs and the majority of ESTJs, I would not thought that Just one different scale would make such a profound difference in personality(?)

#### Perseus

##### Prolific Member
Criminals I have come across are INTJ (more successful) and ISTP (more like criminalised Artisans).

But there are ENTJs as well, bad people who would be criminals but are in respectable jobs causing distress to others.

Drug dealers are often Horsemen (ESFJ) but these are the low lifes who get caught. The higher dealers are suspected to be INTJs.

#### Perseus

##### Prolific Member
Actually
One thing I noticed was the tremendous difference between the ISTJs and the majority of ESTJs, I would not thought that Just one different scale would make such a profound difference in personality(?)
Dogs (ISTJ) and Bulls (ESTJ). Trusted dogs are preferred.

XSTJ is perhaps the Bulldog.

#### Da Blob

##### Banned
Criminals I have come across are INTJ (more successful) and ISTP (more like criminalised Artisans).

But there are ENTJs as well, bad people who would be criminals but are in respectable jobs causing distress to others.

Drug dealers are often Horsemen (ESFJ) but these are the low lifes who get caught. The higher dealers are suspected to be INTJs.
Yes, I believe the ES_J provide the majority of drug dealers, I dealt with mostly ESTJs, but it was minimum security prison for Nonviolent offenders, I believe that the ESFJs are a little bit more prone to violence and would been placed a more secure facility...(?)

#### Fordy

##### Member
INTPs would be pretty good criminals, I think. If were to want to become criminals, that is.

One time, I was with an ENFP and an ISFJ, and we came up with a rather elaborate scheme to rob a few places in our town, if ever we needed the money. I came up with most of the idea, the ENFP volunteered to carry out most of the actual actions (though I claimed I wouldn't mind doing it), and the ISFJ said he'd create some hacks to turn off the CCTV/alarms/whatever.

It was fun coming up with the idea, though of course we were never serious about actually doing it.

I think an INTP would be a valuable member of a crime syndicate, coming up with most of the plans and details but having other people carry it out for him.

#### Perseus

##### Prolific Member
ESFJs are often chefs. That's why it is called the Thieves Kitchen.

The film Donnie Brasco is interesting.

#### Perseus

##### Prolific Member
I think an INTP would be a valuable member of a crime syndicate, coming up with most of the plans and details but having other people carry it out for him.
I think he would be identified very early on. I think he would probably be quickly killed by a ESFJ. The exception would be the INTP wife of a ESFJ criminal.

#### Da Blob

##### Banned
Dogs (ISTJ) and Bulls (ESTJ). Trusted dogs are preferred.

XSTJ is perhaps the Bulldog.
Rats! This is the 2nd time I've responded to your request for elaboration (?)
My server is Suspect
Thanks for the Thought Provoking comment!

Part of my challenge was to teach my client's HOW to think.
Most were petrified into Stimulus -Response Cycles in dealing with the challenges of everyday life...
True Creatures of Habit.

I introduced them to the OODA loop (See WIKI)
The OODA loop can be seen as a problem solving method
Stimulus - Adaptation of Self - Creating options - Response Loop (not a cycle)
The motto/slogan was "Take Initiative, Take your Life back - Act, don't Re-Act"

The ISTJs comprehended the utility of the OODA loop immediately and applied it.

Most of the ESTJs, had difficulty with the concept. Looking back it is easy to realize that because ESTJs have a primary orientation to the External, the adaptation of Self to change in the environment was a relatively rare occurrence. They had a predisposition to view Change as Threat, which kicked in the 'hardwired' FFF Response, thereby short circuiting the problem solving thought process.

#### Perseus

##### Prolific Member
The OODA Loop is NOT how I think.

I will try and think of an example of my thinking in operation.

Let is say cattle grazing on nature conservation sites on chalk downland.

Unfolding circumstances would be the uncovery of more information. In practice, my global view and using my intuition provides the best solution.

cf. Dogs (ISTP) or Bullies (ESTJ) just read the bosses agenda and applied that for the brownie points. But no points off me!

From the Other I ask for a second opinion. Is this Feedback?

#### Da Blob

##### Banned
No, the OODA loop is for the simple-minded, just one step above the level of Stimulus - Response conditioning

#### JoeJoe

##### Knifed
I once read in an INTP profile that they make good assassins.

#### Psychotic But Cute

##### Avalible in a store near you.
Okay, I know this is an old thread but I stumbled upon it and had to laugh a little. Do you know how frustrated I get watching crime shows? I'm always 'You idiots!' because I know with out a doubt if I were them I would have gotten away with it. Sad but true. I also know I'd never become a criminal as the risks are too high and it is more interesting studying those who committed crimes than committing them myself. As I only really got into the Myers-Briggs testing a little while ago, it never occurred to me it was my personality type that made it seem that way.

#### Anthile

##### Steel marks flesh
I'd say that Te could be directly translated to criminal energy. The NT criminal doesn't rob banks, he founds them. The economy crisis? Clearly the product of a fiendish NT.

#### Psychotic But Cute

##### Avalible in a store near you.
LOL. Why stop at the economy crisis? With that logic, a NT caused global warming.

##### Banned
Nope!

We lack motivation and are not very strong when it comes to putting out plans into effect.

INTJ and to a lesser extend INFJ, is what you are looking for.

However, if we teamed up with one of those two, I think we be pretty kick ass and definitely contribute to the operation.

#### RubberDucky451

##### Prolific Member
If crimes could be committed within our own minds, I'm sure we would be great criminals.

Rebels, like Death said? Yes, easily. Probably even into illegal things if we deemed law unethical. But actual crime takes motivation.
Haha, this reminds me of 1984. The thought police

#### Jaico

##### (mono no aware)
I'd say that INTJs take the cake on this one - their ability to make (and execute) plans probably puts them in a better position than an INTP to actually make and follow through with a grand master plan. When I think INTJ, I think of Light Yagami or Lex Luthor.

I'd say, however, that INTPs would make better detectives (to catch those INTJ criminals) - why? The fact that we always consider alternatives, see things in a new light, analyze possibilities thoroughly, and see connections others don't makes me believe that INTPs would make wicked detectives - though of the armchair variety (i.e. Nero Wolfe, Auguste Dupin, L), and not the private eye type.

#### Cogwulf

##### Is actually an INTJ
I think INTJs are the best criminals, but the perfect criminal would be INTJP, they would have the INTJs planning abilities, but the INTPs abilities to consider many different possibilities.

#### Enne

##### Consistently Inconsistent
^This is true. The downfall of Yagami and Luther tends to come once someone has seen through their plans. Crystal, yes, but not prone to the possibilities of a fruitful investigation.

#### reyo01

##### Redshirt
I'm not exactly a crimenal, but I do piss people off by finding logical reasons of why their opinions are incorrect. Half of my church hates me because I challenged their dislike of wallet chains and comical T shirts.
"Think of it this way, if you wouldn't wear it in front of Jesus, don't wear it on the alter."
"Oh I figure that...though I believe Jesus would have more of a sense of humor."
"Well just...Jesus would most likely get offended."
"How do you figure? He hung around a crowd of sinners and ignored all of the anal retentive do-gooders. You have to have a sense of humor if you're going to surround yourself with a bunch of deviants."
"......don't wear it!"
"Fine, thank you for telling me out front. Giving me that "What would Jesus do" garbage is insulting...as if I were a child."

On a side note, if an INTJ were to plan everything out while an INTP looked through the final plan, that would be the best combo I can think of since INTPs are better at finding what's wrong with a giving situation rathor than formulating one.

#### Nicholas A. A. E.

##### formerly of the Basque-lands
reyo: Heh, I can appreciate your sentiment there re church matters.

#### Thoughtful

##### Nom Nom Nommin' on Heaven's door
In the Evil Genius scenario, I see INTPs as being the "real guy" behind the bad-guy. We're mad scientists, we don't care if you're good or bad, If you're willing to fund our research, who are we to say what you use the results for?

If we did become criminals, it would be out of sheer curiosity. I could see breaking into a museum, disabling the securities, passing up $10m paintings, perhaps marking the floor or stealing something small (to prove to the world that we can), and then walking out. In short: Doin it for teh lulz. With the right motivation though, we'd probably be great at hatching terrorist plots. Anyone know the head mind at al-qaeda so we can make him take the MBTI? Assassin? Maybe, I don't see the point in risking life and limb to end another persons life, but finding new ways to end it would be interesting. Whenever I play airsoft, people start referring to me as a ninja. When I first started, I did enough research that by the time I hit the field, I had more than enough book knowledge for my craft. So yeah, I suppose given the right circumstances we'd make good assassins. #### Pythia ##### Vagabond I once read in an INTP profile that they make good assassins. The other day I found "assassin" listed among the INTP's ideal professions. Don't remember where, though... As for the lack of motivation, I have to say that, at least to me, it is true. One of the main reasons I don't break the law is because then I'd have to deal with the consequences, and they are not worth the effort. For example, going to jail would be a horrible waste of time. #### Psychotic But Cute ##### Avalible in a store near you. One of the main reasons I don't break the law is because then I'd have to deal with the consequences, and they are not worth the effort. I had to laugh a little at the above post, because he's (she's) right. If we did become criminals, it would be out of sheer curiosity. I could see breaking into a museum, disabling the securities, passing up$10m paintings, perhaps marking the floor or stealing something small (to prove to the world that we can), and then walking out.
I can think of so many things I've done only to sedate my curiosity, not all of them smart, mind you.

#### transformers

##### Active Member
Yeah, INTP's don't have a strict sense of right and wrong; if we see the logic in committing a crime, we'll do it (and probably get away with it). It's just that most of the time, it's not worth it.

#### GarmGarf

##### Active Member
I once read in an INTP profile that they make good assassins.
The other day I found "assassin" listed among the INTP's ideal professions. Don't remember where, though...
http://similarminds.com/jung/intp.html

If I recall correctly, ENTP was the only other type with "assassin" listed under "favored careers".

I recall reading in a description that the most scary trait of INTPs was their ability to rationalize their morality. While most types know they are doing wrong, and might feel guilty but attempt to shut the guilt out, INTPs have the ability to negate that factor entirely.

#### bananaphallus

##### found out
I was pretty close to robbing a supermarket in my home town last summer, after realizing that they left beverages, beverage coolers, beach umbrellas, and firewood in the fire lane just in front of the store overnight, and that all of these things just happened to be in a security camera blind spot. I'm also pretty confident I could rob any metropolitan art museum blind.

I see my life as progressing this way -> youth/early adulthood frittered away -> desperation -> life of crime becomes legitimate option (train robbery, art/priceless artifact theft -> bungled job (no fault of my own) leads to arrest -> trial of the century -> flee -> become folk hero -> settle down in country with no US extradition treaty

#### transformers

##### Active Member
In the Evil Genius scenario, I see INTPs as being the "real guy" behind the bad-guy. We're mad scientists, we don't care if you're good or bad, If you're willing to fund our research, who are we to say what you use the results for?

If we did become criminals, it would be out of sheer curiosity. I could see breaking into a museum, disabling the securities, passing up \$10m paintings, perhaps marking the floor or stealing something small (to prove to the world that we can), and then walking out. In short: Doin it for teh lulz.

With the right motivation though, we'd probably be great at hatching terrorist plots. Anyone know the head mind at al-qaeda so we can make him take the MBTI?

Assassin? Maybe, I don't see the point in risking life and limb to end another persons life, but finding new ways to end it would be interesting. Whenever I play airsoft, people start referring to me as a ninja. When I first started, I did enough research that by the time I hit the field, I had more than enough book knowledge for my craft. So yeah, I suppose given the right circumstances we'd make good assassins.

I could easily see that too. It would become a game for INTP's, a test of intellect. They'd want to see how much they could get away with. They'd probably never take excessive risks though, and would stop before things got too dangerous.

#### Pythia

##### Vagabond
I had to laugh a little at the above post, because he's (she's) right.
I'm a "she", thank you.

#### Psychotic But Cute

##### Avalible in a store near you.
Okay, I wasn't sure, so I kept my bases covered.

#### Nicholas A. A. E.

##### formerly of the Basque-lands
I recall reading in a description that the most scary trait of INTPs was their ability to rationalize their morality. While most types know they are doing wrong, and might feel guilty but attempt to shut the guilt out, INTPs have the ability to negate that factor entirely.
This reminds me - I don't know if the Unabomber was an INTP, but he very well could have been. That sort of thing is in our nature.

#### scandalous

##### Redshirt
I´ve wondered about this too, and I´d have no problem being a criminal, but although I already have a double life, I´m not doing anything illegal (yet)

#### Scourgexlvii

##### Kind of like Batman... but completely different
I'd probably say that it would come down to motivation, and I think it's unlikely for an INTP to be swayed by the money alone, especially since crime actually pays very little for the effort, especially for someone like an INTP, who has better potential to succeed in other careers. The defeating the system aspect is a tad more likely, but INTPs don't tend to go that big of a scale in their anti-authoritative actions. When it comes down to it, there doesn't see to e as if there's a big enough draw factor. Though this is not to say that INTPs wouldn't be good criminals, as they would likely be rather good at crime.

#### Schneizel

##### Member
I often find that NTs are disproportionate in stages 5 and 6 of Kohlbergs morality and SJs in 4 or lower. I actually believe the compacity for NTs to understand, delve, and define morality means they are less likely to engaging in immorality.
Since no one else has bothered, I will point out the fallaciousness of using the word "immorality" in place of "law breaking".

#### Psychotic But Cute

##### Avalible in a store near you.
You may be right, though not completely so. There is a number of laws dealing with killing, and because INTP are able to rationalize morality, they may also be able to rationalize killing, making them 'perfect law-breakers' in that sense. There is also the 'we do it because we can/are curious' thing (for motivation), causing us to not care as much when we do it. Well, at least, this is how I feel..

#### PartyPoison

##### Redshirt
I think we would make better detectives. We spend time thinking about the perfect crime so we would have a better understanding of crime scenes. The motivator could be boredom (as it is with L and Sherlock Holmes) or the desire to bring criminals to justice. Either way I find detective work interesting. Although I have watched only Death Note, criminal minds, and Sherlock (BBC) for the past week so it might just be that.

#### crippli

##### disturbed
Imo, the most important aspect of getting away with a crime is to not be emotionally attached. Meaning, that when the crime is conducted. That you more or less forget about it, as it is of no relevance any longer, and it isn't. Even to the degree that when questioned for the murder, you have no idea what they are talking about.

What one knows, knows no one. What two knows, knows everyone. I think it's a valid guideline.

I find detective work more fulfilling then crimework.

#### Oblivious

##### Is Kredit to Team!!
intps are the perfect fantasizers of being criminals.

#### SLushhYYY

##### Active Member
My belief is that the INTP would not follow through with their so called brilliant "crime", it's too much work and I frankly would rather speculate the outcome of the action rather than actually putting myself in the situation.

However, an INTJ is the one who would more likely follow through with their plan of action, seeing as that how they live their life.

In conclusion, a psychopathic INTP is much less harmful physically than a psychopathic INTJ.

#### scorpiomover

##### The little professor
We have all the skills and talents of the INTJ, bar one. We take our time mulling things over, to come to the perfect plan. We are not the lone gunman. We are not the master criminal. We are the criminal mastermind, the one who plans out the robberies, to the perfectest detail. We are in plain sight. But no-one sees us. We look the most innocent, and so pass by the security, who are completely unaware of what we are hiding. We take. But we are not selfish.

As Artifice Orisit pointed out, our Ti & Ne could help us be a criminal. But out Ti will also show us the problems, and our Ne will show us a better way.

However, if we could find "the perfect crime"....

Take the film: Inside Man. If you haven't seen it, you should. It's almost a perfect crime, if there is one.

The criminal mastermind hides in plain sight, inside the vault, for days. What kind of INTJ would possibly decide to hide for 3 days, rather than fight his way out?

He leaves a diamond ring, because it belongs to a Nazi, and leaves a little note, to hint to the detective chasing him, that, IF the detective thinks about it, leads him to uncover the Nazi's crimes, and thus catch a very bad guy, who hurt a lot of people (Fe).

I'm still against stealing, on principle, and because I believe that things come back to haunt you. But if there was an INTP criminal, this seems more his bag.

There are other people, who do crimes like this, but for noble purposes:

Jason Statham in Revolver gets Ray Liotta to kill himself, to get justice for his sister-in-law, who was murdered by Liotta. He uses mathematics to do it, by the perfect game, that can never be beaten.

Jeremy Northam in Cypher, makes himself into an entirely different personality, twice over, as if he had no personality at all, and simply wears them like clothes. All to save his wife from being taken out by contract killers.

Could an Extrovert do any of these roles? No, because each of them works so independently of what everyone else is doing.

Could a Sensor? These crimes are mind-bogglingly like nothing you've ever seen before.

Could a Feeler? Not with what happens in these movies. One has to be really able to switch off their emotions, or be incredibly in control of them, to deal with all that.

Could a Judger? An INTJ could do these things. But he'd just attack the problem directly. These are games within games within games, so deep, that even the INTP doesn't know what game his mind is playing, and that even his whole personality is just part of the game. But never to attack, always to retreat, always to be submissive, and to let the others think they control him, when really, it's all just part of his perfect game.

#### Sigma Octantis

##### Member
Well, when it comes to creating plans for the perfect crime.

Both INTJs and INTP are geat at it.

the difference is.

INTPs would wander off to a new plan when INTJs would find the best suitable plan.

tackle the pros and cons, make solutions then execute.

INTPs how ever would, make a plan. look for another plan. then look for another plan.

find another idea, make a plan, make more plans and then finds more ideas.

in the end, the INTP didnt get any work done.

thats why INTJs are the much more preferred to be a criminal mastermind.

we are known as the masterminds in the first place o.o

but if INTJ and INTP were to work together on comitting the crime.

well, that would be a crime that would leave no forensic evidence at all for the detectives.

INTPs can get a really good idea but would easily wander off to another one.
INTJs can also make a good idea but not as good as the INTP but at least they'd execute it with perfection that it would almost unstoppable.

i think it would be a very interesting thing if an INTJ/INTP commits a crime and an INTP/INTJ detective has to solve it.

i'd love to read a book about that or see a movie about it. Would be great if someone can reccomend a book or film like that xD

#### LateNightSnack

##### Redshirt
i think it would be a very interesting thing if an INTJ/INTP commits a crime and an INTP/INTJ detective has to solve it.

i'd love to read a book about that or see a movie about it. Would be great if someone can reccomend a book or film like that xD
A classic example is Holmes & Moriarty

#### Pizzabeak

##### Heyoka
I wish the Final Problem was more fleshed out though. Like the novellas rather than the 20 page short stories, not to say the short stories are bad though, because they're actually entertaining. And Sherlock Holmes 2 was pretty awful - this is coming from a pretty decent fan of Doyle's work. The first film was even pretty good.
But yeah, it'd be cool if the hijinx between Holmes & Moriarty took place in a novel rather than plot deviced filled 15 page story

#### LateNightSnack

##### Redshirt
I always liked the short stories because they were short
The show Sherlock enhances the whole Holmes/Moriarty thing....
Yeah, the movies are a bit diffrent, but I like them. What's really annoying are those people that can't let go of the original stories & want every interpertaion to be exactly 100% like the original

#### SwanandK

##### Redshirt
I think about how a crime can be done near perfectly and what can go wrong. But, i do not have a motive strong enough to actually commit one. If i get a motive then who knows...

#### TMills27

##### beep
Its a fun thing to think about.

I'd say sure. They'd be good for the possession of drugs, or un-claimed/paid taxes/fines, or otherwise any broken law that is restrictive and limiting.

They'd also be easy to frame, trick, or influence into breaking a crime. Unless the INTP took measures to focus on preventing these exploits.

I'd say INTP's are more on the defensive than the offensive.

For violent acts, it would have to be something that crossed that threshold from containing their disposition, to explosion of Fe. At that point, I doubt there would be much planning or reasoning; they just go primal.

For being driven towards acquiring something, all possible options would be assessed, and measured for pros and cons.

But I suppose everyone has different views based on them undervaluing moral standards.

#### Sinny91

##### Banned
I'd say INTP's are more on the defensive than the offensive.

For violent acts, it would have to be something that crossed that threshold from containing their disposition, to explosion of Fe. At that point, I doubt there would be much planning or reasoning; they just go primal.

For being driven towards acquiring something, all possible options would be assessed, and measured for pros and cons.

But I suppose everyone has different views based on them undervaluing moral standards.
My 8w7 would appear to be the exception to that rule, it defines me as being more offensive than defensive; and in hind sight, I find that rings true.

I am aware of my feelings, and although I squash them 90% of the time if I find them unuseful, I often allow indulgance in them if they represent something I really desire; even at a detrimental cost. I figure if I want something in a moment I might as well go get it, as I never know when the opportunity might be my last.

Laws have little effect on what I do, but my own morals and desires do.

If I had the chance to partake in organised crime, I would.
I'd love to be an assassin... I wouldn't be able to kill the innocent, but then again, that still leaves plenty for the picking.