INTP Female, Struggling w/ Feeling Togetherness

[BabySnakes]

I'm so very grateful to have found the Myers-Briggs personality profile when I did, about a week ago. For the first time in my life, I feel like I'm not alone in my condition and maybe I don't have some kind of mental disorder. It seems like most of my behavior is perfectly predictable on the basis of this framework, and even better for me, so is everyone else's. I've found people to be more interesting and less offensive since being able to analyze them. It makes sense to me that Carl Jung himself was an INTP. I would like to become more familiar with some of the deeper vocabulary in Myers-Briggs, as well as some of the other personality tests, but for now my knowledge level is fairly superficial.

I've had an extremely difficult time engaging others in blander social environments, which for me would be when people are not logical or technically-minded, or worse still, not even capable of following basic rules of engagement for debate. For me, being stuck in such a situation is akin to hearing nails on a chalkboard for the duration of the time I'm forced to listen. It baffles me how people can be so irrational and makes me fear for the future of our species.

Add to all this that I recently left my very successful INTJ boyfriend of six years for his exact opposite, a fun-loving ESFP. We're so happy together. I am more in love with him than I've ever been with anyone. We really do compensate for each other's weaknesses. It comes as second-nature. And we're fascinated by our differences, often discussing them at length and lately, with the influence of our newfound understanding of personality. I've been impressed to find that my boyfriend reads into these things on his own time and is even coming back to educate me on the topic.

Unfortunately for us, everyone in his family has been shocked to find him with someone of my personality type, even based on their first impressions and what little they know of personality. He is supposed to be this outgoing, life-of-the-party kinda guy, but when he's with me, we interact on a much deeper level and prefer to have our privacy. Not to mention that I can't help but speak the truth in everything I say, and am well-researched in just about every controversial topic that could arise in a discussion. I generally try my best not to speak, but sometimes I slip up, and so alternate back and forth between raising eyebrows and being spookily quiet, or too good for it.

Pretty much everyone hates me. I'm trying to come to terms with this, but have mostly done so by becoming a shut-in. The feeling of 'differentness' has ruined me. I've been increasingly depressed for so long that it's just a part of me. I'm actually applying for disability on the basis of MDD and ADHD as I am too nervous to go out into the workforce and try to get along with people again. I dropped out of college about a year ago after having to withdraw three terms in a row, basically for going crazy in the inane cattle herding that was supposed to be higher education. Despite all of this, I actually feel that I have a lot going for me and want to save myself. It's just so, so hard out there. Nails on chalkboards everywhere.

I need help. I am planning on being institutionalized at a mental hospital where I've been once before. It really hurts to feel so misunderstood. I've been badly neglected by my family, who have nothing in common with me. I have almost no female friends. I just don't think like them, with my feelings, even though I do have feelings and want to have female friends. Men absolutely adore me because I'm attractive and analytical, but it's hard for men and women to be 'friends.' I'm just a really thin, petite, attractive young female who acts like anything but, having the personality type of the 'absent-minded professor.' No one knows how to act around me and people often tell me I'm intimidating. To me, it seems to catch them off-guard because they expect me to be sweet, outgoing, and demure.

My boyfriend went out with friends last night to blow off some steam after suffering through a family dinner party with me. I'm like radioactive at events like that, but I go to be supportive, knowing that family is important to him. I gave him plenty of space, as I always do when he needs it. He happened to run into a very good family friend who is our age while he was out and came to find that there are all kinds of rumors being spread through his mother's side of the family about him. Apparently his grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins thought our behavior was so unusual when we visited over the summer that we must be on drugs, because he has had problems with that in the past and we were being uncharacteristically reclusive for him. They also think I'm anorexic because I'm so thin and was too nervous to get food out of the kitchen without my BF there. And they also just generally don't like me and think it's weird that their extroverted family member is not dating another extrovert.

Even I was surpised by this development of events. I mean, I'm used to people not liking me, but to find myself at the center of some family conspiracy theory that's been talked about so far-and-wide that the news made it 200 miles from the mountains by word-of-mouth and was delivered to us by someone who is not even a family member is astounding. People really just fucking hate me. But you know what? People are fucking stupid. I'm trying not to let it get me down, but it's exactly the kind of ostracizing that makes me suicidal. I feel like an alien, not meant for this world, even though the world would be a better place if there were more people like me. I'm not a bad person, but the world makes me feel like I am. Insert inspiration quote here, you know, the one about being maladjusted to an unjust world.

So the fallout is pretty much that my BF was devastated and glad we decided to go with his Dad's famly for Christmas. They have so far not done anything as ridiculously judgemental and childish, even letting us stay at their nice vacation rentals and taking us out. His father is likely an INTJ, so he doesn't react emotionally enough for dumb shit like that. He spoke to his Dad about what happened and he felt really sorry for my BF. He also spoke to his Mom and thinks that she is even more upset than we are. We believe she's an ISFP and she is badly effected by this kind of family meltdown. She just wants everyone to get along. I don't think she really likes me either, but she loves her son and feels terrible for him in the wake of this embarrassment. Imagine overcoming drugs and doing well for yourself, planning for the future with the love of your life, only to find that your entire family is talking to everyone and their fucking mom about how you're doing drugs again and your girlfriend is a creepy anorexic.

I honestly wonder if understanding the uniqueness and exceptional capabilities of my personality type is the only thing keeping me alive right now. Being born smart is probably the worst thing that ever happened to me, although I am holding out hope that I'll be able to accomplish amazing things in my life. I just really need some moral support right now because I'm taking on a lot. My boyfriend is there for me and remains totally committed, knowing that none of this is my fault. He never knew how hard it could be to be unique and is often shocked by people's reaction to me, since he is so accepting. However, it's a lot of pressure on him to deal with me and everyone else. I need to find more analytical friends so I can get my kicks in an appropriate environment, but they all left with my ex-boyfriend, who is now a quasi-famous engineer in the area and it's impossible to find a smart person who doesn't know him.

It's a strange life, isn't it? Sorry for the book. I can't help it. I don't even know what I'm looking for, but maybe it's simply to feel understood. Thanks for reading.

 

[Black Rose]

I've been to mental institutions sense I was 8. I real feel that everything in my life was do circumstance of family issues. I am on medications but I still feel face by existential problems at times. If you have MDD and ADHD then that might be a real reason to get help though. I had to quite college for some of the same reasons. What is it exactly that you want to do with you life is a question I am still trying to answer.

Its good that you have some one that cares about you. Support is what we all need at our low moments. Their are many analytical people here, so I hope things work out for you.

 

[INeedToPee]

trust me, you are not alone. i think most INTPs, if not all, feel a sort of disconnect with society. we are not like most people and because of that, some people don't understand us. some accept us, and some don't. i think that if you want to be liked by everyone, you have to have a certain degree of "fakeness". we have to learn to adapt to this predominantly sensor and feeler world (unless you just don't give a damn what people think). by that i mean seem friendly and approachable initially, and adhere to social norms. after a while, you can gradually drop the act and if they don't like you for who you are, it can't be helped.

at this point though, i think your boyfriend should talk to your family and reassure them that you mean well. basically dispel the rumors and clear the air. it sounds to me like they don't have any good reasons to dislike you. if he can't reason with them, i don't think it's worth the effort. i hope i am making sense

anyways, welcome to the forum, i think you'll like it here!

 

[Architect]

I'm so very grateful to have found the Myers-Briggs personality profile when I did, about a week ago. For the first time in my life, I feel like I'm not alone in my condition and maybe I don't have some kind of mental disorder.

That's amusing, we now have a condition

It seems like most of my behavior is perfectly predictable on the basis of this framework, and even better for me, so is everyone else's.

Yes it's disconcerting how much of us is predicated by some programming

It makes sense to me that Carl Jung himself was an INTP.

That's not clear. He may have been, but after much thought and discussion I'm more inclined to believe INFJ.

I would like to become more familiar with some of the deeper vocabulary in Myers-Briggs, as well as some of the other personality tests, but for now my knowledge level is fairly superficial.

Study the functions deeply

I've had an extremely difficult time engaging others in blander social environments, which for me would be when people are not logical or technically-minded, or worse still, not even capable of following basic rules of engagement for debate. For me, being stuck in such a situation is akin to hearing nails on a chalkboard for the duration of the time I'm forced to listen. It baffles me how people can be so irrational and makes me fear for the future of our species.

Yes they can be rather boring, can't they? They'll do fine however.

Pretty much everyone hates me. I'm trying to come to terms with this, but have mostly done so by becoming a shut-in. The feeling of 'differentness' has ruined me.

I would try to ameliorate this. Yes we are different, but it's not good for people to get too separated.

I've been increasingly depressed for so long that it's just a part of me. I'm actually applying for disability on the basis of MDD and ADHD as I am too nervous to go out into the workforce and try to get along with people again. I dropped out of college about a year ago after having to withdraw three terms in a row, basically for going crazy in the inane cattle herding that was supposed to be higher education. Despite all of this, I actually feel that I have a lot going for me and want to save myself. It's just so, so hard out there. Nails on chalkboards everywhere.

Sorry to hear about this. Again do your best to be a normal person. "Everybody is normal, some just less than others"

It's a strange life, isn't it? Sorry for the book. I can't help it. I don't even know what I'm looking for, but maybe it's simply to feel understood. Thanks for reading.

What you have going on may be more than type - I don't know - but it sounds like you are almost entirely Ti. Give your Ne, Si and Fe some more psychic space, and you might get along with people better.

 

[Observer]

Hi, welcome to the forum. I don't post much myself, I just... observe...

Anyway it sounds like you have a bunch of negative emotions running around your head relating to this whole affair and maybe your personal state in general. These emotions can be dangerous for INTPs. Make sure you handle them correctly. I'm sure the others here can assist with that. How old are you? I personally don't really have particularly strong emotions, positive or negative, any more and I think it works pretty well for me.

Regarding how to act around other people: I find that the layer of my mind that deals with other people is just completely separate from the layer that I use to entertain myself with and analyse and make decisions with. As such, it's like the things people say and do to me only affect my external self and don't affect my internal self much, because they don't know anything about my internal self anyway. I think most people I meet (including my family) see me as a very nice and polite person who is somewhat likeable but unrelatable. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Anyway I just wanted to say that the stuff about getting institutionalised does not sound healthy for you. Of course if you have specific conditions then they need to be addressed but getting yourself removed from your own space and put into a mental hospital sounds like hell to me mainly because you won't have private space and can't make decisions for yourself. Make sure you know what you're doing...

 

[Da Blob]

Most college is BS, pick up a degree online, where one can work at one's own pace. To be able to work is almost a necessity, but the workplace is a broad place to be where both individuals and small teams can make some kind of income. In our rural neighborhood, there are quite a few people who sell hand-crafted products on ebay, with a world-wide market - when just a few decades ago such a thing would have been impossible.

Jung's model, is just that, an abstract model and it does have limitations. However, it is a useful tool for analysis of Self and Others, as it deals with some primary choices made in social situations, etc.

Learn to speak to Others as children, who require patience and forgiveness. It is easy to see those with problems of their own, who causes one problems, as threats - but if one can experience an epiphany, that reverses the polarity of the perceived social hierarchy, then those who now are considered threats, can become opportunities.

Many of us have learned how to pretend to be extroverts in social settings. If nothing else, humans can always be used as an audience to practice one's acting skills.

 

[Melkor]

Agh!
Agh!

Text wall! Can't get by it, can't get under it!
I'll have to climb it! D:
Better look for a, o, q, u, v and w footholds!

Oh. Welcome. :3 If you have come seeking enlightenment, companionship through shared trial, and understanding then you didn't read the brochure!

 

[PhoenixRising]

I have almost no female friends. I just don't think like them, with my feelings, even though I do have feelings and want to have female friends. Men absolutely adore me because I'm attractive and analytical, but it's hard for men and women to be 'friends.' I'm just a really thin, petite, attractive young female who acts like anything but, having the personality type of the 'absent-minded professor.' No one knows how to act around me and people often tell me I'm intimidating.

^ this!

I've experienced this most my life. My advice, start thinking about it differently. Use your Ne, have fun with this! When someone expects you to be something and you blow them away, laugh about it. You're awesome compared to most women (you have a keen intellect and a unique perspective on the world).

Don't let the expectations of small-minded people get you down.

 

[Velo]

Hello BabySnakes,

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

Secondly, as stated by INeedToPee, you are not alone. There are many folks out there who can relate to what you have said, me included. Consider this post a virtual 'pat on the head' for moral support.

Thirdly, knowing about your own personality traits is a big help in navigating life. I'm in the older demographic for this forum and wish the resources of the internet where available decades ago before I spent too many years living mainly inside my own mind. Yes, life is difficult for introverted thinkers in a world ruled by irrational extroverts, but that doesn't mean you can't carve out your own bit of happiness and sanity within it.

Some tricks that have helped me through the years are:

Be glad that you have found someone who offers support and understanding. I got married many years ago and we take on an 'us against the world' stance.

Actively work on participating in the world, but do so at your own pace. You will have to push yourself on this, but be aware of your limits. If personal interactions become overwhelming, take some quiet time, even if it's in the middle of a family dinner. Better to walk away before reaching overload/meltdown stage.

If you have given the family a chance or two to accept you and they still don't change, stay away. Some battles are fruitless, but the trick is to learn which battles aren't.

Don't apologize for being too smart or intimidating. I've heard the same thing at times, and any attempt on your part to play dumb will only make you miserable. Eventually you will find a friend or small social circle that will welcome you as you are.

As you may read in other threads, human interactions may require you to fake it at first if you want to get out in the the world. By faking it, I mean putting up with the awkwardness of talking to a person for the first time in a social or work situation. If you can get past the awkwardness, you may find that the other person is experiencing the same anxiety. It's rather unfortunate that the people who would best be able to communicate with you on an intellectual level once they know you are the same ones who can't make it past the first hurdle.

Finally, the hardest part may be accepting that you can't make the world a rational place despite your best efforts. Yes, we know how it should be, but it isn't. Don't completely give up, though, as there are islands of sanity available that still appreciate intelligence and logic. The biggest trick is finding them.

Cheers,
Velo

 

[MichiganJFrog]

Welcome to the group, Snakes. Hopefully, I can be of some assistance. I think I can relate to a lot of what you wrote.

 

[Tony3d]

Ne is your friend and an incredibly powerful tool for INTPs.

It is probably the only reason I can stand being an INTP at times. From my personal expereince, the INTPs that I have known that have not worked on their Ne have all been very miserable people, not just in themselves, but to be around.

Ne allows you to see patterns in the world around you and adjust, so when you are talking to someone or entering a room, you can adjust your energy level to theirs and make them and you feel more comfortable. That combined with your classic INTP wit and the Ne ability to see the big picture as well as hundereds of possible outcomes at any point in time, can easily be used to make people laugh and adore you. INTPs are quick like that, within half a second they usually have something clever to say. You just have to use Ne to see patterns to know when to say it.

I need help. I am planning on being institutionalized at a mental hospital where I've been once before. It really hurts to feel so misunderstood. I've been badly neglected by my family, who have nothing in common with me. I have almost no female friends. I just don't think like them, with my feelings, even though I do have feelings and want to have female friends. Men absolutely adore me because I'm attractive and analytical, but it's hard for men and women to be 'friends.' I'm just a really thin, petite, attractive young female who acts like anything but, having the personality type of the 'absent-minded professor.' No one knows how to act around me and people often tell me I'm intimidating. To me, it seems to catch them off-guard because they expect me to be sweet, outgoing, and demure.

Honestly, my biggest problem with being an INTP is the fact that I have this Fe, but I don't know what to do with it, so it starts to suffocate deep inside of me. I want to let it out, but I don't know how...

I used to think I was bipolar, but then I realized I just had this certain area of my life that I honestly valued, but I didn't understand it. So the disharmony between that Fe side of me and my normal Ti/Ne thinking was causing crazy personality and mood changes.

Female friends that know how to feel are the best thing you could possibly have to learn how to grow and be a more balanced INTP. I am an INTP guy, so getting feely female friends was soooooooo incredibly hard for me, but it was the only thing that could help me grow. It should be 10x easier for you as a female.

And like I said before, Ne is such a good bridge between your Ti and Fe that it helps you balance out and know how to deal with people. They will value you soooooooo much for your creative wit and INTP abilities that they will never have, you just have to take a few steps to make them feel more comfortable around you.


INTP guys can get away with shutting down their emotions entirely, the world allows that. I would never do that, because that Fe lion that lives inside of me is a great strength I don't want to waste. But the world is sexist, they will not accept a girl doing that, ever. The world LOVES smart girls, but if you have a total disconnect from your Fe you will always be looked at as weird. I am not saying become a touchy feely person, you just can't be sitting at the total extream you seem to be at right now. 80% logic and 20% feelings should be fine. I personally sit at a 70% to 30% ratio myself, so I know it is possible. (note that these numbers are just abstract representations because I can't think of a better way to describe it, they don't corrispond to any direct values)

 

[EditorOne]

Welcome aboard.
Much of what you said resonates, although I was never a thin, petite, attractive female....
About heading for an institution - won't they try to "cure" you of being INTP along with the other acronyms? One of our paradigms here, simplistically, is "I'm not broken, I'm supposed to be this way."
Drift along with us here for awhile. We're better than a "cure;" we're self-aware. This may be the place where you can actually communicate without being thought anything worse than, um, wordy.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

In the case that you return :

If you haven't considered it already, I think a change of environment would be beneficial and that you might need a break from the people around you. Though I'm not saying isolation would do any good.

Also, you're not alone in finding comfort with the knowledge of the existence of MBTI types and similar people, but it's not something to strongly hold on to. If you are having any real problems in your life, they won't be solved just with the knowledge of being an INTP(or any other), it'll take more than that.

 

[Duxwing]

Wow! You've had quite the adventure; I'm glad that its ending was so happy.

-Duxwing

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm glad to hear that some of the old problems resolved themselves. From your description, your life sounded very complicated and dramatic. I hope that right now is a time for you to simply go day to day and not feel a need to rush into anything new or become overly mired down, as you continue to still heal, figure yourself out, and figure out your overall direction in life. Five months is a long time in some ways, but for the kinds of things you described dealing with, it's relatively short; I find that my personal healing and growing is a slow ongoing process.

 

[Montresor]

It is a terrifying thing to realize that you don't really know the person you've been sleeping with and that you've been used. It feels like a combination of being raped and stolen from, and may very well be those things.

Rape and theft imply non-consent.

Consent under duress ... does it qualify? No,

Duress implies non-consent : demonstrations of consent are not valid under duress.

Were you under duress? Unfortunately, after analyzing your story/situation (that which you have provided us) ... I do not believe so. In fact, I don't think you meet any of the 4 criteria required (see wikipedia) for a defense of duress. Moreover, I actually think it was your fault.

Therefore I must conclude that your story is not one of rape or theft; it's merely a sad (yet hopeful) story of one [brave] individual getting themselves into, and then out of, a bad situation.

 

[Montresor]

And you're saying that this was my fault somehow? Then I guess the rape was my fault as well, since it was an experience to which I subjected myself under duress?

I'm sorry I thought you said you were INTP.... recheck your logic here... it's miserably flawed. You have used the word "then" ... which implies a conditional argument, which is invalid for the following reason:

Something you subjected yourself to under duress (such as a legitimate raping) is clearly not your fault as duress implies non-consent.

The fact that I have not personally been raped has nothing to do with anything, now does it?

I also said that it may very well be those things, sure, it also may not. Why don't you go analyze something that can be picked apart more easily? There is nothing about my situation that was right, wrong, or anyone's fault. It was just a tangled web of nonsense and what was fair didn't matter.

Which was my point. You should not post such personal things if you just simply expect everybody to go along with it. Find the SFJ forum for that, because I am not concerned with morality issues when there's bigger concerns involved (such as you feeling raped ... when you consented)

Seriously, you've got my blood boiling with your insensitive statements. I will probably be much less likely to continue posting here after this unnecessarily unpleasant exchange. You really just had to disregard the thrust of everything I've posted about and zoom in on this one apparent logical inconsistency? You must never get laid.

hmm? I'm sorry, I thought you said you were INTP. My bad. Hurt another feeling today (check that off the list).... therefore I must never get laid. Hush now, silly rabbbit.


You accuse me of disregarding everything to zoom in on one point, however, quite the opposite has happened. I have considered everything, and noticed that you boiled it all down to one swift conclusion: you were raped and robbed.

I say no, you were not.

Oh my I am so insensitive. Sorry that your blood is boiling and you don't want to post here anymore. I'll go ... uh... feel good about myself now.

 

[redbaron]

Rape and theft imply non-consent.

Consent under duress ... does it qualify? No,

Duress implies non-consent : demonstrations of consent are not valid under duress.

Were you under duress? Unfortunately, after analyzing your story/situation (that which you have provided us) ... I do not believe so. In fact, I don't think you meet any of the 4 criteria required (see wikipedia) for a defense of duress. Moreover, I actually think it was your fault.

Therefore I must conclude that your story is not one of rape or theft; it's merely a sad (yet hopeful) story of one [brave] individual getting themselves into, and then out of, a bad situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

EDIT: Ohhhh Monty...

 

[Montresor]

I said it felt like being raped and stolen from, as in I was sleeping with someone who basically lied to me about who they were (does that count as duress? I wouldn't have slept with him if I'd know he were gay, robbing and killing people) and a year of my life was taken from me by this person. He also stole thousands of dollars from me. And yes, your never having been raped would probably make it difficult for you to relate other experiences to that one, so how could you argue that the two don't feel similar in some way? Even if you had, I could have interpreted those experiences differently than you and you still don't really have an argument against my subjective experience.

Except that, it didn't objectively happen, AND I never actually made any sort of argument that the two don't feel similar.

Lies don't count as duress. Duress requires actual threats, not deception.

If you were deceived, then it is your fault. If, then. See?

A woman does not suddenly become raped because she suddenly feels that way when she suddenly discovers her lover/rapist raped her simply because they fucked under false pretense.

things get thick and sticky when you consider, maybe, that consent can be withdrawn, at any time... especially with sex, but generally applies to all things consensual.

Anyway if you're angry at me then maybe I shouldn't carry on with this conversation because we will get nowhere until you enter a detached state of mind? Sorry for the trouble.

 

[Montresor]

This conversation is very much beside the point and unnecessary, but I guess I'll humor you. In my defense, I never actually said that I was raped and stolen from. I simply said that my experience felt like those things, in that my experience had a similar effect of instilling feelings of disgust, betrayal and violation as those other experiences.

that's all fine and well but Ti is about precise definitions and pure truth ... not,, "how things feel".

I believe one of the first things I said to you was in response to a quote where you stated outright that it "may well be" rape and theft because it felt that way.

fuck

Rape and theft are objective behaviors. Accusations of rape and theft always require objective proof. Stating it felt that way after you recognized that you were manipulated, is not equivalent to proving that it happened. What is so difficult about this?


Dehumanization, on the other hand, is a subjective experience which you clearly were subjected to.

I would prefer to call it what it is how about that? There is an ignore button, I suggest you employ it immediately.

 

[redbaron]

Except that, it didn't objectively happen.

Lies don't count as duress. Duress requires actual threats, not deception.

If you were deceived, then it is your fault. If, then. See?

One thing you'll eventually learn is that it's illogical to try and assess human emotions at the same time as removing the subjective human interpretive element of...being human.

The concept of fault and duress aren't even relevant - and it's hardly, 'logical' to claim that it's her fault that her boyfriend trawled through craigslist blackmailing and ransacking the homes of gay people.

Context is important, and there's no way of discrediting the fact that finding out you've been lied to and deceived for years by someone could recreate the same feelings that arise after being raped. I can certainly see the similarities in both situations, I'm sure in either one you'd feel:

- used
- guilty
- ashamed
- embarrassed
- angry
- vindictive
- helpless

Whether or not she was or wasn't raped isn't even relevant.

Just as a personal example, the best way I could have described how I felt when one of my friends died, is 'gutted'. Empty inside, like I'd lost a part of me. Whether or not I was actually gutted is wholly irrelevant - the feeling of loss is comparable to any other feeling of loss. Details might be different, but parts of the experience are the same.

Why do I even have to explain this shit?

 

[redbaron]

but Ti is about precise definitions and pure truth ... not,, "how things feel".

All functions work in tandem with their opposite. They don't operate in a vacuum and furthermore, MBTI paints a framework, not a complete picture of a person.

Ti does not work independent of its inferior, and more to that point - Ti is internal and therefore subjective. It deals with subject - the relation of things to the inner (subjective) world.

I never said "may well be because it felt that way." I said may well be… and left that open to interpretation, unfortunately. I forgot that my language would be so closely scrutinized and wish I'd have simply left that part off.

You were using hyperbole, and I understood your meaning perfectly fine. I'm glad you're out of that situation and are living on much better terms now

 

[Montresor]

@Redbaron good for you, but ... you didn't feel gutted. You can't know how it feels because you have never been gutted.

Saccharine, on the other hand, has been raped. Therefore, she knows how it feels to be raped?

You can tell the difference can't you? You made a Red Herring. Shame on you.

I am not struggling with any of this, nor do I lack the feeling/context required to participate in this conversation.

The only struggle I am having is getting through to saccahrine who keeps trying to sidestep the points I am making by re-directing the focus to different topics. She's not confronting the discussion head-on as I am. She should just stop answering me then I will stop posting what I think about the situation.

To clear one thing up:

It feels like a combination of being raped and stolen from, and may very well be those things.

here you go!!!! No, it's not those things. Here's why: blah blah blah see above


P.S. how can you claim it's irrelevant when it is clearly the topic of conversation? What what?

 

[redbaron]

You can tell the difference can't you? You made a Red Herring. Shame on you.

No.

The only one committing any sort of fallacy here is you, for completely missing the subjective context, and trying to forcibly judge it through objective means.

Red herring is an idiom that refers to a logical fallacy that misleads or detracts from the actual issue.

So, what IS the actual issue here?

Is it whether or not she was raped? No.

Is it to do with whether nor not she feels the same way she did after being raped? Yes.

If you don't like that the human experience is subjective and that you can't fit every single experience that everyone ever experiences into your neat little idea of objectivity...too bad.

Don't come into the thread with SpaceYeti-level irrelevance, trying to analyze inherently subjective human experiences, and then undermine people's intelligence by trying to pigeon-hole their feelings into an objective vacuum.

 

[Absurdity]

Montresor, shut the hell up.

 

[Montresor]

I'm sorry I perceived the actual issue to be whether she was raped and robbed or not, considering she stated outright that it "may well be those things".

I will maintain that it's simply a sad (yet hopeful) story of one [brave] individual getting themselves into, and then out of, a bad situation.

With this in mind, every single thing I have said is relevant.

You feeling gutted because your friend died, therefore having an understanding of the human condition, is much less relevant because you were not gutted, (for one), and two, because the human condition does not empower somebody to claim rape and thievery simply because they feel terrible.

In fact, even if the feelings were identical, from one scenario to the next, it does not in any way imply the objectivity of the event is valid.

So if one feels badly after being raped and robbed, and then later on feels the same way, even though they were not raped and robbed, they might be led to conclude (through some form of conditioning) that they were indeed raped and robbed.



EDIT: @Absurdity, go for it do your worst. I don't care and I don't intend on obeying your fucking orders.

This is not a god damn support group for the victims of society this is a place to come to practice critical thinking and socialization for the socially depraved.

 

[redbaron]

@Redbaron good for you, but ... you didn't feel gutted. You can't know how it feels because you have never been gutted.

This has nothing to do with knowing what it feels like to be gutted - it has only to do with a feeling of loss.

I don't need to be gutted to understand the feeling of loss, but the simplest way to describe the feeling of loss that I felt is to say, 'I felt gutted'. The term, 'gutted' symbolizes the concept of feeling as if I'd lost something and that I wasn't functioning properly.

So too does the concept of feeling raped relate to the feeling of being used, of shame, anger, vindication, embarrassment etc.

Can I relate to a feeling of loss, regardless of being gutted or not? Yes.
Can Saccharine relate to the feeling of being used (and any emotions that may be attributed to it) regardless of being raped or not? Yes.

The usage of the terms is hyperbole.

This is like when someone shares a thought and provides an example situation, and a bunch of people just ignore the context and overall point of the initial thought/idea and attack the limited scope of the example without realizing how completely irrelevant their refutations are.

Ignoratio elenchi, also known as irrelevant conclusion is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may or may not be logically valid, but fails nonetheless to address the issue in question.

The subjective experience is the issue, not the objective occurrence.

 

[Montresor]

I've contacted the moderators asking them to delete this thread, but on second thought, think it might be a useful read for other immature INTPs who struggle with the validity of subjective experience, appreciating hyperbole without overreacting to it, and recognizing the limits of objective analysis. I don't think anything but a controversial issue like rape could have attracted such heated and desperate criticism. It shocked me at first for being so rude, but I can see now that it reveals a weakness probably suffered by many INTPs, especially I would guess young inexperienced males.

Said the ENFP.

You resort to insults over and over. Why am I the bad guy here again? I have recommended you ignore me once and in additon to that I have recommended you stop replying to me as well. As far as I can tell you want to know what I have to say.

(I put that in bold because it is pretty much my only defense). I hope it holds up in court.

What makes this thread worthy of deletion anyway? The fact that I undermined your human experience by analyzing it in a detached fashion?

One might reasonably expect that's why you're here in the first place ...........

 

[redbaron]

I've contacted the moderators asking them to delete this thread, but on second thought, think it might be a useful read for other immature INTPs who struggle with the validity of subjective experience, appreciating hyperbole without overreacting to it, and recognizing the limits of objective analysis. I don't think anything but a controversial issue like rape could have attracted such heated and desperate criticism. It shocked me at first for being so rude, but I can see now that it reveals a weakness probably suffered by many INTPs, especially I would guess young inexperienced males.

Only eight posts and you've already figured out INTPforum!

What makes this thread worthy of deletion anyway? The fact that I undermined your human experience by analyzing it in a detached fashion?

I don't think your comments really qualify as, 'analyzing'.

As far as I can tell you want to know what I have to say.

What about if she thinks you're missing the point, being stupid and representing her inaccurately?

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

@Montresor

Your comment about her feelings was insensitive and that's why people blew up at you.

 

[Montresor]

Thanks Redbaron. I learn quickly.

And Montresor, you seem to be doing the same thing of which you accuse me, over and over again. This time, you've accused me of resorting to insults while apparently insulting me by claiming that I am an ENFP, like I care. I don't carry around the INTP label like a badge of honor the way you do. And by the way, I've been typed professionally and am fairly certain that the typing is correct. Maybe being female and having a wider range of life experiences on which to draw makes me come across as being more well-rounded than yourself.

At what point did I proudly display an INTP badge? The only professional typing I ever received came back ESTP..... and I reject it because, because, because professional typings are bullshit. Or is Auburn an amateur? What about own8ge??? What makes a "professional" typist anyway? (somebody who does it for money......so how does this enchance their credibility again??) Typology is about subjective human experience not objective, demonstrable traits.

I never meant to "insult" you calling you ENFP. You just, post like another ENFP that helped me get banned somewhere else long ago. Making comments about me not getting laid/being immature/ etc. ... that's hurtful too you know. And it's false, so fuck you. How about that? What if, I think it was immature of you to freak out just because I didn't jump on board and give you a cyberhug like everyone else was?

@ Proxy, thank you for explaining that to me. I feel as if I have encouraged the distraught individual to ignore me enough times already that i shouldn't have to do so any more.

 

[r4ch3l]

I sent you a PM sometime back when I first joined the board because I related a lot to your story; how you described yourself and your experiences interacting with the world, the differences and difficulties interacting with women, accidentally putting people off because you are naturally quiet and self-possessed. I'm sorry things got so out of control within the situation with the ex-boyfriend that you initially thought was so positive and even more sorry that you took the time to come back and update us then got bombarded with this insensitive, nonsensical bullshit. Please stick around, it's not all bad here (although within the board culture there is a fairly narrow stereotype of how an INTP *must* present and many male and some female INTPs don't seem to understand some of the differences in male and female INTPs or the unique challenges that a more "male" minded type living a female existence face.)

If you do decide to leave I hope you and you new guy continue to have a peaceful, happy life together and that your business works out. I'm in the middle of launching my own business as well and am both excited and terrified...but I think entrepreneurship is a good route for NTs and could help the INTP become more extroverted and "J" (practice making decisions under pressure).

 

[authentick]

I'm embarrassed that I wasted so much time debating that guy, but at least he was revealed for what he truly is and subsequently banned.

And what is he, truly?

Why should he have been banned?

An INTP poser? = crime
Insensitive to your feelings = crime
Having an opinion and standing behind it = crime
A troll .... getting closer, but

An authentic person? genuine??

Dishonest? - why did you say he is dishonest?

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

This thread has been a perfect case study in how the how is as important as the what, authenticity be damned. The how is the key to authentic agency not restricting itself.

Carry on, peeps.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

TheHabitatDoctor, What do you mean about the how being as important as the what? Can you provide an example?

Well... I for one would actually argue that Montresor had some points (say... the subjective nature of non-universal experience), but his methods weren't the best, especially vs a noob as opposed to an established forum pillar. As you said, he could have criticized you more delicately.... needs to work on that... je ne sais quoi.

 

[Jennywocky]

...Apparently I can't even go to the gym for an hour in the evening, without missing all the fun and excitement.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

...Apparently I can't even go to the gym for an hour in the evening, without missing all the fun and excitement.

Don't worry, drama is not a rare commodity on this forum. Probably you will be exposed to drama in no time what so ever.

 

[The Gopher]

I can create drama for you. Only $9.95

 

[doncarlzone]

...Apparently I can't even go to the gym for an hour in the evening, without missing all the fun and excitement.

I too, was shamefully amused by this drama.

Saccharine, please stick around though, I've grown to enjoy the different insights from female INTPs on here.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Saccharine, please stick around though, I've grown to enjoy the different insights from female

Ditto

thrust

lmfao

 

[walfin]

Hi BabySnakes.

Whatever you do, please do not get yourself institutionalised.

No lunatic could write as lucid a post as the OP.

Hope things are better with your boyfriend's family.

 

[Duxwing]

Hi BabySnakes.

Whatever you do, please do not get yourself institutionalised.

No lunatic could write as lucid a post as the OP.

Hope things are better with your boyfriend's family.

I was that lucid right up to a few hours before I tried to kill myself after ~9 months of existential despair: If BabySnakes needs inpatient care, then that's that. :/

-Duxwing

 

[Saccharine]

Glad you all found it so amusing. I won't be posting here anymore. Have fun picking apart my quotes.

 

[Jennywocky]

?

If it matters, aside from the mess with Montresor, everyone else has been remarkably supportive.

I think there is a misunderstanding at work here.

 

[Puffy]

?

If it matters, aside from the mess with Montresor, everyone else has been remarkably supportive.

I think there is a misunderstanding at work here.

It's understandable. When I first started looking around typology forums I first joined the INTJ one. I made an introduction thread and received... not very welcoming posts... so I immediately went elsewhere. When you're new to a place a first impression means a lot (hence Montresor's ban) and sometimes even if you receive nicer posts mixed with the worse ones, the latter tend to colour perception a bit.

I don't think Gopher, Proxy, etc's highlighting of "drama" is intended to make fun, Seccharine, though it might come across that way in the context of Monty's posts. Hope you stick around, as the style posts you got here really aren't typical, but if not happy trails...

 

[Jennywocky]

It's understandable. When I first started looking around typology forums I first joined the INTJ one. I made an introduction thread and received... not very welcoming posts... so I immediately went elsewhere. When you're new to a place a first impression means a lot (hence Montresor's ban) and sometimes even if you receive nicer posts mixed with the worse ones, the latter tend to colour perception a bit.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Did she just see Montresor's last comments now? I saw them last night, so this sounded almost like it was refencing other behavior from this afternoon, but I didn't see anything bad.

It's just a shame. Typically here I don't even remember usually seeing things like Montresor's comments coloring Intro / new member threads (although this was more like a full-fledged thread by a poster who hadn't posted much in the past).

This is one of the "nicer" forums overall; I've seen some really crazy stuff in Intro threads on some other forums, though.

 

[DelusiveNinja]

*raises hand in classroom for young, insensitive, and possibly, immature INTPs* I have some questions. Why don't I see Saccharine's original post(s) on the thread? Was the mistake (if you want to call it that) Montressor made even a typical INTP mistake in your eyes (that is assuming he was an INTP)? Am I allowed to ask questions like this? I ask this because it seems like standing on thin ice when questioning things in a discussion like this.

 

[Jennywocky]

*raises hand in classroom for young, insensitive, and possibly, immature INTPs* I have some questions. Why don't I see Saccharine's original post(s) on the thread? Was the mistake (if you want to call it that) Montressor made even a typical INTP mistake in your eyes (that is assuming he was an INTP)? Am I allowed to ask questions like this? I ask this because it seems like standing on thin ice when questioning things in a discussion like this.

The initial post was made under the name BabySnakes.

 

[DelusiveNinja]

The initial post was made under the name BabySnakes.

!? Was the rest of my post something you did not want to respond to? No matter, I didn't mean that post I'm talking about post like this:

This conversation is very much beside the point and unnecessary, but I guess I'll humor you. In my defense, I never actually said that I was raped and stolen from. I simply said that my experience felt like those things, in that my experience had a similar effect of instilling feelings of disgust, betrayal and violation as those other experiences.

Maybe it's a problem on my side or maybe the post that I can't see weren't posted here.

 

[Fukyo]

She deleted her posts.

There's really no need to leave or delete your posts though Saccharine.