Fully Developed and Healthy INTP

[The Black Raven]

Quite simple really. What does a developed, healthy INTP look like In terms of his/her use of his/her functions, and their interactions with the world.

 

[Anthile]

...maybe?

 

[Lithorn]

Nobody is ever fully developed or healthy. If they think they are, they're not INTPs.

 

[Adymus]

I'm pretty skeptical that Einstein is an INTP at all, but aside from that, he is not a very good example, because he have no idea how well he used his functions anyway. and I'm pretty damn certain that Feynman is definitely no INTP, I believe he is an ENFJ actually.

Carl Sagan has always been one I considered very well developed. He maintains a great balance of how much Ti and Fe he is using, he keeps his articulation consistent, he is never manic about expressing himself, and keeps a steady tempo. What I see as mastery in being well developed is being able to gracefully switch back between lower and higher functions; This is not just a matter of having well developed lower functions alone but honing your uses of them, so you can learn how to gain momentum and spend your energy efficiently.

There is an INTP actor that has some of the coolest Fe use I have ever seen... I can't remember his name for the life of me though.

 

[The Black Raven]

Similar vein: how can one determine which function(s) are underdeveloped?

That aside: Specifically, what does a healthy developed Ti look like in a developed INTP? What does a healthy developed Ne look like in a... get the picture?

 

[Adymus]

Ti, for an INTP, is a function that is constantly trying to Grow, this leaves it up to the other functions to allow it to have more avenues to grow into. When an INTP's Ne, Si, or Fe develop, their Ti developes, and if those lower function remain weak, then they keep the INTP's Ti from growing as well. Ti to us is like a balloon, and a poorly developed Ne, Si, or Fe will keep it weighed down lower than it could potentially be.

The best way to determine what functions are undeveloped is by comparison to other people of the same personality. If one can articulate and engage more fluidly than most other INTPs, then it should suggest that their Fe is better developed.

Ne is a tougher one to explain "how it looks" because it is possible to "down play" Ne, so to speak. On one hand you could have an INTP who almost looks like an ENTP, because they are allowing their Ne express itself freely, and on the other hand you could have an INTP whose Ne is just as well developed, but they prefer to keep it to themselves, for the sake of not looking overly playful, however this is actually an indication that this person might have better use of Si than the former.

 

[Anthile]

At least Einstein was beyond the "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department.", a quotation, many INTPs seem to follow.

 

[bananaphallus]

Is Ne always necessarily expressed as playfulness/'life of the party' type sh*t? Is it that one-dimensional? Can't Ne be deadly-serious, and applied to non-humor-based concepts e.g. things like relativity/far-out smartsypants sh*t?

 

[Adymus]

Can't Ne be deadly-serious, and applied to non-humor-based concepts e.g. things like relativity/far-out smartsypants sh*t?

Of course it can.

"Overly playful" was probably a bad choice of words, I meant something more int the lines of "Overly unstructured."

 

[Double-Think]

Hmm, I'd probably say Jung, I subscribe to the Jung is an INTP theory so i really don't know, i think he had a great understanding of it all but he was known for his temper... Einstein perhaps?....

 

[Adymus]

Hmm, I'd probably say Jung, I subscribe to the Jung is an INTP theory so i really don't know, i think he had a great understanding of it all but he was known for his temper... Einstein perhaps?....

No way man, The psychological types, the Archetypes, The collective unconscious, these are things you pretty much need to be Ni dom to come up with (Specifically Ni dominance with Fe auxiliary so you can tie these patterns to the human community.)

I find this funny, Fukyo posted a link on her MBTI resources page talking about how Jung was this "Pure type" That had Ni and Ti as top two functions...

Wow, just wow... Okay first of all, Having Ni and Ti as top two function would just not work at all as a functioning personality. Secondly, Really!? They can't think of a Single type that Uses both Ni and Ti, Really!? Is it really so inconceivable to think that maybe he was an INFJ, that they have to make something up like being a "pure type"!?

 

[Double-Think]

Hmm I see your point Adymus, lol you seem hostile in that post -_-. I would agree with you about Jung being an INFJ, perhaps its my own bias for the INTP type, and the Ni function annoys me, the individuals that i have come across (INFJs mostly) have been self-righteous, have played the victim, and act like martyrs which eh, i care less for.

 

[Adymus]

I'm hostile in every post Double-think, it's nothing personal, it's just my fiery Latin temper.

 

[Double-Think]

It's not cool dude, i'm just giving my opinion. Not to start a flame war.

 

[Adymus]

I apologize for upsetting you in the other thread because that was kind of mean, but come on man. I think you might be being just a little over sensitive here. Saying "No way man..." to you was in no way hostile to you, maybe hostile to the people who suggest that Jung was a "Pure type", but definitely not to you.

 

[Fukyo]

No way man, The psychological types, the Archetypes, The collective unconscious, these are things you pretty much need to be Ni dom to come up with (Specifically Ni dominance with Fe auxiliary so you can tie these patterns to the human community.)

I find this funny, Fukyo posted a link on her MBTI resources page talking about how Jung was this "Pure type" That had Ni and Ti as top two functions...

Wow, just wow... Okay first of all, Having Ni and Ti as top two function would just not work at all as a functioning personality. Secondly, Really!? They can't think of a Single type that Uses both Ni and Ti, Really!? Is it really so inconceivable to think that maybe he was an INFJ, that they have to make something up like being a "pure type"!?

Didn't you argue for Jung's INTJness before?


btw: that was just an excerpt that seemed interesting for presenting such an unorthodox claim, don't take it so seriously.

 

[Adymus]

Didn't you argue for Jung's INTJness before?


btw: that was just an excerpt that seemed interesting for presenting such an unorthodox claim, don't take it so seriously.

I thought it over after that discussion, looked into a little more of his writings, and his visions and dreams, and then had a change of mind.

And yeah, I'm not aiming any discontent against you for posting that. I agree that it was interesting. I just think it is kind of lame that a person could recognize Ni and Ti when they see it, and still think Jung being a Feeling type is completely out of the question.

 

[bluesquid]

I have to say Adymus, you know your typeology, for the most part. But you need to work on your bedside manner. You must be overbearing and insufferable in real life, as bad as you are in here.

 

[Alice?]

I have to say Adymus, you know your typeology, for the most part. But you need to work on your bedside manner. You must be overbearing and insufferable in real life, as bad as you are in here.

Oh, ouch, dude. Although Adymus' posts don't bother me and I'd really prefer not to get involved in any arguments, I agree that for the sake of the readers he might benefit from toning it down a little to illicit a more positive response. However, you don't have the right to pass judgements on how he behaves outside the forum unless you actually know him and have observed his behavior on multiple occasions. It was out of line to insult him like that, especially one here.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

I was at my buddhist class last week, and they were talking about how things can be defined by everything they're not. "Fully Developed and Healthy (FD&H) INTP" can be defined by all the non-fully develop, unhealth INTPs. (And of course, other people's types.) We can talk about FD&H INTP by looking at what makes them unhealthy.

Anyway. I think it's delightful, especially since we might be looking at a few non-FD&H INTPs in this thread.

 

[Anthile]

I was at my buddhist class last week, and they were talking about how things can be defined by everything they're not. "Fully Developed and Healthy (FD&H) INTP" can be defined by all the non-fully develop, unhealth INTPs. (And of course, other people's types.) We can talk about FD&H INTP by looking at what makes them unhealthy.

Anyway. I think it's delightful, especially since we might be looking at a few non-FD&H INTPs in this thread.

Everyone thinks all the other people around them are less developed and less healthy.

 

[Alice?]

Everyone thinks all the other people around them are less developed and less healthy.

Not necessarily.

 

[Adymus]

I have to say Adymus, you know your typeology, for the most part. But you need to work on your bedside manner. You must be overbearing and insufferable in real life, as bad as you are in here.

lol.

1. Correcting people is not over bearing, it is informative, I'm not forcing anyone here to listen to me.

2. Mind your surroundings, it's a typology forum. If we were on a rock climbing forum and I was still going on about typology, then yeah, I suppose it would be a little weird of me. But since it is the topic at hand, it would make sense that I would be discussing it, without having to assume that I am constantly correcting peoples understanding of Typology in everyday life.

3. Real life is not the internet, nuff said.

 

[Sparrow]

We're INTPs, why are we getting our feelings hurt over the INTERNET?

Guys, grow a set of balls, better yet...grow a couple extras.

Anyways. LEAVE ADYMUS ALONE!

 

[shoeless]

(insert "leave britney alone" joke here)

...i respectfully refrain from this conversation.
even though i don't really get why everybody be dissin' my hubby like that.
no use getting butthurt over something that isn't and never has been intended to be personal.

 

[Anthile]

Not necessarily.

What an undeveloped and unhealthy thing to say.

Spoiler

Seriously, 'everyone' is just a rhetorical expression here.

 

[White Rabbit]

I'm saying something for the sake of saying it. My opinion here matters, as others are unable to perceive my exact perspective due to their silly biases. The perspective is a momentary epitome of the big picture, and conflict is necessary, because - they are wrong.

 

[ijustprotectedmyidentity]

i have always secretly held contempt for adymus for reasons i will not explain. and know that i know his latin - i hate latins

btw wtf you have itachi??? what are you 12?? you grow a set of balls kid

 

[Adymus]

I love how the one reason you named is because you hate Latins. What an awe inspiring display of intelligence!

 

[Sparrow]

i have always secretly held contempt for adymus for reasons i will not explain. and know that i know his latin - i hate latins

btw wtf you have itachi??? what are you 12?? you grow a set of balls kid

You're cool.

 

[Words]

I love how the one reason you named is because you hate Latins. What an awe inspiring display of intelligence!

So you think Einstein is another "often mistyped but in fact an INFJ"?

 

[Adymus]

So you think Einstein is another "often mistyped but in fact an INFJ"?

It's a possibility, I won't drop any certainties on this one. He just seems too original minded and visionary to be an INTP.

 

[Philosophyking87]

I've been wondering about this. Apparently, some INTPs prefer their Ti function, while other INTps prefer their Ne function. Those who prefer the Ti will gravitate toward highly intellectual areas, while those who prefer the Ne will gravitate toward artistic avenues.

Now, if an INTP is largely preferring Ne over Ti, are they undeveloped? Or, are some INTPs just naturally one way or the other, regardless of their level of psychological development? Is it nothing more than a bias that INTPs are supposed to be into science and mathematics? Can an INTP that enjoys creative writing, art, and music not be as healthy as someone in the sciences, mathematics, or engineering fields?

[I would say that I personally prefer Ne over Ti. I'm capable of seeing possibilities everywhere; I am totally aware of the big picture; I globalize and abstract everything; and, my personal theories are so fuzzy that I have difficulty articulating them, and they come out vague to others. Also, I'm attracted to philosophy, music, and writing. Hence, I'm probably not the typical INTP logician, mathematician, or scientist.]

 

[Philosophyking87]

It's a possibility, I won't drop any certainties on this one. He just seems too original minded and visionary to be an INTP.

INTPs are original-minded and visionary. Therefore, this reasoning doesn't suffice. What else do you have?

I personally would say that perhaps he was a bit too practical for my tastes, given his ability to actually comprehend reality as it is. But, he did show many traits which are cornerstones of the INTP personality. He forgot things. He was absent-minded. He daydreamed all day, intellectualizing about his favorite thoughts. He completely shattered our previous understanding of the world.

If any type is going to create the most relevant groundbreaking discoveries, chances are it's an INTP. Countless sources have repeated reiterated this idea. So, all in all, I don't really think Einstein was any other type. He was probably INTP.

 

[JUN]

Adymus and everyone else who seems to enjoy believing that INTPs are this boring engineer type of personality:

Read your definitions on the type, please. I mean seriously, you people really need to do it. Since when isn't Ti a clear booster of originality and visionary ideas ?

Also: I can't even begin to understand why is it that you would think (Adymus) that the people who typed Einstein an INTP are less able to type him than you are. Ok, ok, it's just an opinion and this isn't even an important matter, but really, think about it.

 

[Philosophyking87]

In fact, I'm going to go one step further. The word visionary is entirely vague, because Rational (NTs), in general, are essentially all very visionary, just in different ways. And, many intuitive types are original, just in different ways.

And again, INTPs have some of the most original minds.

The INTP is usually very independent, unconventional, and original. They are not likely to place much value on traditional goals such as popularity and security. They usually have complex characters, and may tend to be restless and temperamental. They are strongly ingenious, and have unconventional thought patterns which allows them to analyze ideas in new ways. Consequently, a lot of scientific breakthroughs in the world have been made by the INTP. These are the pioneers of new thoughts in our society.

Although, even INTJs are original and unconventional, to some extent. So originality isn't really specific enough, as a description. But looking at this description of the INTP, I would say Einstein fits the bill quite well.

 

[Philosophyking87]

Adymus and everyone else who seems to enjoy believing that INTPs are this boring engineer type of personality:

Read your definitions on the type, please. I mean seriously, you people really need to do it. Since when isn't Ti a clear booster of originality and visionary ideas ?

Also: I can't even begin to understand why is it that you would think (Adymus) that the people who typed Einstein an INTP are less able to type him than you are. Ok, ok, it's just an opinion and this isn't even an important matter, but really, think about it.

Indeed. I would attribute originality and visionary ideas to Intuition, not Introverted Thinking. Introverted Thinking organizes information in a very logical fashion. It does this by taking in information from Intuition, largely. So, an INTP can either be extremely gifted at structuring information, or they can be stronger at deriving a more grand picture from their Ne Intuition. I don't really think any preference is really a sign of "psychological undevelopment" or "lack of psychological health." I would just say that Ti is usually our strongest function, but that it doesn't necessarily have to be. Some people have strong Ne functions. These people are extremely original and visionary.

INTPs live in the world of theoretical possibilities. They see everything in terms of how it could be improved, or what it could be turned into. They live primarily inside their own minds, having the ability to analyze difficult problems, identify patterns, and come up with logical explanations.

Some of us are just more concerned with the possibilities and the visions, rather than the actual analytical logicality of it all (although we are capable of logical analysis).

Abstract or theoretical subjects are usually the INTP's cup of tea, and academic or research careers may seem attractive to this type. From science and math to economics and philosophy: just name the discipline, and you'll find INTPs perched on the loftiest rungs of theory and analysis. In whatever field they choose, INTPs take on the role of visionary, scientist or architect, and they usually prefer to make their contributions in relative solitude. The mundane details of life may be the INTP's undoing, since this type lives in a world guided by intuitive thinking.

Obviously, INTPs have a wide range of interests from which to choose. Some will enjoy purely artistic work that involves little analysis and/or theory. Some will choose work that is both benefited by Ne and Ti, such as philosophy or music theory. And some of us will simply gravitate toward the purely analytical sciences. I don't really see where these differences of function preference and interest really indicates a lack of development or psychological health.

In fact, some INTPs, and maybe they are the one's who have stronger Ti function, tend to have very eloquent speech and aren't vague in the least, while many INTPs, who are probably driven more strongly by Ne, tend to have eloquent writing styles, but can come off very vague and abstract when trying to explain their ideas. Hence, we're often described as "incommunicative" and sometimes "the greatest in precision of thought and language of all the types." So, I think both of these descriptions are true, depending on the INTP, or the circumstance. Largely, many INTPs tend to be very vague and fuzzy about their ideas, while we largely seem to have a great handle on language, for the most part. I guess some of us just express our ideas with more ability than others.

Usually, all of this "psychologically unhealthy" and "psychologically undeveloped" nonsense seems to stem from some "Engineer INTP" bias that seems to suppose we're all supposed to be into science, math, and economics, which isn't true at all.

 

[The Frood]

semi-relatedly; how does one "develop" their functions to become a "healthy"/"well-developed" INTP?

It is even possible to be so? It seems like being "normal". No one is really normal, it is more an amalgam of society's expectations and values. Like a standard to aspire to that is just out of reach.

 

[walfin]

It is even possible to be so? It seems like being "normal". No one is really normal, it is more an amalgam of society's expectations and values. Like a standard to aspire to that is just out of reach.

No. Normal is a standard that society wants me to aspire to, that I don't give a **** about (actually not really true. It irritates me).

I don't know if Einstein should be considered "fully developed" or no, certainly he has achieved much but I'm pretty sure none of us knew him personally (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though )

Perhaps it is impossible to attain "full development". I should think that, paradoxically, the person who believes s/he is fully developed is the one that is not.