Forum Mafia Game #1

[Sinny91]

JacobStrangeLove

Lol, I feel for Sinny, you can feel the frustration in that last sentence. "FUCKING UNVOTE YOURSELF.

I CAN'T COPE WITH THIS. WHY ARE YOU ALL DETERMINED TO DIE?!?!" If there is one thing I would bet my life on it's that Sinny is town. Or has spent her entire forum lifespan posting around the possibility of one day playing mafia rolling scum and messing with people.

You should have seen me in person. My exasperation face is comical.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm willing to try a simple game next time. I've never played before, and watching this one is the first time I've really watched a game.

The time investment scares me, and especially if it's not a vanilla version.
Plus, I hate the "novice" period where I inadvertently fuck stuff up and make people hate me.

I gtg to work. I've got a lot of juicy notes in my QT that make me look absolutely fucking retarded, but some of them specifically I need to refrain from posting due to them being about other things. So I'll parse it and share all the embarrassing stuff but only what pertained to this game specifically.

I already read them. ......

have a fun time storming the work castle!

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Depending on how much interest there is, I think we should play a similarly sized game with the same setup or a larger game with the doctor/bodyguard town role and maybe a mafia role like QT said.

 

[QuickTwist]

Day two investigation: Ruminator, but if I had have taken into account the changed days, it would have been artsu. I tried to change and was just wandering why QT wouldn't let me change my mind XD

Day ends and night begins at different times with a majority lynch. As soon as Day ends it is Night. I gave a timer for when Night ends and said multiple times Night Actions had to be in an hour before the beginning of the next day.

 

[QuickTwist]

I'm willing to try a simple game next time. I've never played before, and watching this one is the first time I've really watched a game.

The time investment scares me, and especially if it's not a vanilla version.
Plus, I hate the "novice" period where I inadvertently fuck stuff up and make people hate me.




I already read them. ......

have a fun time storming the work castle!

Yeah, but see, you can hate other people too :P

 

[Puffy]

The only problem I see with more numbers is that the game obviously takes longer and it becomes a significant time investment. It was a pretty big time investment as it was. If it was 13 people with a similar setup or not too much more complex and it was starting soon I'd probably play if people are needed.

 

[QuickTwist]

The only problem I see with more numbers is that the game obviously takes longer and it becomes a significant time investment. It was a pretty big time investment as it was. If it was 13 people with a similar setup or not too much more complex and it was starting soon I'd probably play if people are needed.

Ok, thanks for the heads up. Looks like most people are interested in a less complex/higher difficulty game. I'll might run a game soon, but I just started a game off site and I have to pay attention to that closely. I'm sure your guys can understand why; I can be pretty competitive in these things.

 

[Puffy]

That's totally understandable, I'll check back closer to the time and let you know if I'm free.

I'd love to see the Gopher in the next game, he'd be awesome, and I know he's been obsessively lurking this shit, so come on out.

 

[The Gopher]

JacobStrangeLove



You should have seen me in person. My exasperation face is comical.

Yeah! I was only skim reading (NOT OBSESSIVELY LURKING) but the one thing I would have bet my life on was you being town.

That's totally understandable, I'll check back closer to the time and let you know if I'm free.

I'd love to see the Gopher in the next game, he'd be awesome, and I know he's been obsessively lurking this shit, so come on out.

NOT OBSESSIVELY LURKING. Although I did break my month and a half long absence to read the thread... and then post.

I would like to, I really enjoy this type of thing in general but I hate playing mafia side and have an arm injury which means my levels of typing would put me in the hospital. (typing this is causing a tingling feeling as it is)

I don't like majority lynches I prefer set times that the lynch happens/ability to talk at night also my ego is telling me to wait until I have a better read on the way you guys play cause it's different...

Also if hado had been on the ball with the timings then he would have known puffy and artsu and called cop, that would have been pretty devastating for the mafia side.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

wow both yellow and gopher are back and on the same day
maybe you're the same person who knows

btw i just opened spectator thread...who's darthpunk?

 

[Puffy]

If hado had called cop on me, I'd already planned to call cop myself and gamble on who would trust who. The way it was going it was still possible to pull off, but I don't know.

Just read the spectator thread. DarthPunk was right on that post of mine he highlighted when I voted for ESC, it was one of my worst ones. I knew I needed to let that lynch happen, and rushed to meet the vote. It was interesting to see that not many people in that thread suspected me.

To anyone who plays this and flips mafia I'd bare in mind you always feel more suspicious than you are, because you're the only one who always knows for certain that you're lieing. The others don't know that, but sometimes its hard to dissassociate yourself from the position of certainty you have on everyone's roles in the game from the position of uncertainty in the townsman.

Like, for the entirety of the second day I was playing as if everyone knew I was guilty and my life was on the line. Then reading the spectator thread no one at that time suspected me. But the fact that in my mind I was guilty probably subtlely started telling signs of myself to others.

I hope I roll town when I play again.

 

[Nebulous]

If hado had called cop on me, I'd already planned to call cop myself and gamble on who would trust who. The way it was going it was still possible to pull off, but I don't know.

i just said "ooOoohH" out loud omg that would have been fantastic

Seriously high five to the Mafia. Really nice game.

 

[Jennywocky]

Reading all of the spectator thread.

it's really interesting in terms of the strategies being shared. And much of the advice being offered by an experienced player or two sounds like it makes sense. I'm sticking it into the mental databank.

It's just really ironic that the same logic led same people to make calls on mafia/town status that ended up being horribly wrong in this game.

...Now I feel trapped in WIFOM.


Anyway, I was also reading on some actual game analyses on Mafia sites (where they do a thorough review of complex games through each day), and while it leaves my mind swimming, it leaves me feeling like there are different rules for skill level. IOW, if you're an experienced player, you tend to behave according to certain rules to win; and beginners who aren't aware of these rules/strategies will behave in ways that look like scum (or whatever) in an experienced players game. IOW, the "tells" are different. most of the players here are inexperienced. maybe if playing a lot of serious games, they'll learn what to post and not post to dodge a lynch; but we haven't learned those things yet.

IOW, it's like a variation of beginner's luck, where not knowing good strategy is a way to effectively confuse others as to status.

If hado had called cop on me, I'd already planned to call cop myself and gamble on who would trust who. The way it was going it was still possible to pull off, but I don't know.

Definitely if he had called cop to avoid his own lynching, that was a worthwhile play since I think you had more clout with the town at that point. And it was a 50/50 shot (or even more balanced in your favor) for the entire win, since if they lynched him, Mafia wins at that crux point. To me, it seems like the only play as long as you had thought through who to lie about investigating prior (in alignment with any earlier posts you had made); I think you would have won that one.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I'm pretty sure you would've went down if that happened Puff, but we'd probably still lose cause we had too many lurkers fuzzing the reads.

 

[QuickTwist]

Just want to point out that Town would have had 1 more mis-lynch if Rook didn't get modkilled. That's on me. i just had no idea what I was doing.

 

[The Gopher]

If hado had called cop on me, I'd already planned to call cop myself and gamble on who would trust who. The way it was going it was still possible to pull off, but I don't know.

Well I would hope that hado was leaving breadcrumbs.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Breadcrumb

It's harder with no night talk so maybe he wasn't but generally you would leave them before the night ends leaving hints of who he was going to check/result after the night ends. Also shame about rook but honestly I was ignoring Puffy/Zerk mostly. Well played. That said it's a bit different in game where you can force people to respond how you want but most of the spectators were lost. (Beginners luck totally )

 

[Puffy]

I'm pretty sure you would've went down if that happened Puff, but we'd probably still lose cause we had too many lurkers fuzzing the reads.

That's likely, just simply because I know I'd be arguing against Hado and he'd completely destroy me. But like Jenny said, in that scenario I don't know what else would be a viable strategy, it's 'lie and maybe succeed' or 'give up and die.'

 

[The Gopher]

Like, for the entirety of the second day I was playing as if everyone knew I was guilty and my life was on the line. Then reading the spectator thread no one at that time suspected me. But the fact that in my mind I was guilty probably subtlety started telling signs of myself to others.

Oh also Hado knew you were mafia so that probably fed your paranoia.

 

[Puffy]

This thread is 5 posts away from getting into the top 20 threads for post count lmao.

I request a thread sticky.

 

[Jennywocky]

Four posts away.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Three?

(How can you people tell?)

 

[Puffy]

Two.

You know, I was surprised no one outside the game didn't enter and troll the thread.

 

[QuickTwist]

Lawl.

 

[Jennywocky]

w00t!!!


to be honest, i have no idea whether puffy's claim was right. i'm just sheeping him. after all, he's a winner. He made this thread great again. His success was yuge. He will make all Mafia great again. I mean, he has more victories on this site in Mafia than anyone else aside from Zerk and that other guy who never participated.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Seriously, where do you see the Top 20 threads?

(Congrats thread! You've made it!)

 

[QuickTwist]

My modkill will go down in infamy.

 

[Sinny91]

If hado had called cop on me, I'd already planned to call cop myself and gamble on who would trust who. The way it was going it was still possible to pull off, but I don't know.

Just read the spectator thread. DarthPunk was right on that post of mine he highlighted when I voted for ESC, it was one of my worst ones. I knew I needed to let that lynch happen, and rushed to meet the vote. It was interesting to see that not many people in that thread suspected me.

To anyone who plays this and flips mafia I'd bare in mind you always feel more suspicious than you are, because you're the only one who always knows for certain that you're lieing. The others don't know that, but sometimes its hard to dissassociate yourself from the position of certainty you have on everyone's roles in the game from the position of uncertainty in the townsman.

Like, for the entirety of the second day I was playing as if everyone knew I was guilty and my life was on the line. Then reading the spectator thread no one at that time suspected me. But the fact that in my mind I was guilty probably subtlely started telling signs of myself to others.

I hope I roll town when I play again.

I lost all trust in Hado when he tried convincing me that Eyes was manipulating me.
I only distrusted Baron because of his support for Hado.

And if he called cop after the Eyes lynch, I would still have distrusted him for all the false lynchs.

I would expect a cop to at least lynch in the right direction.

**The only thing that might have convinced me was if he called cop and fell on his sword, like he entertained.

Hado says he pushed the game like he did so as not to arouse suspicion as the cop, I haven't read the whole mafia QT yet.. but I think safer game play would have been hiding amongst suspected townies, and not suspected mafia... which is what he chose to do.

The mafia knew he wasn't mafia... I don't see what was to be gained by 'acting scummy'. Wouldn't that give the mafia more reason to suspect you?

I picked up on some of his (In hind sight) cop hints, but I read them as more scum bullshit.

Why would he have been the mafias top cop suspect? Did his paranoia of discovery fuel his projection?

I suspect the mafia only kept him around because he was effectitively doing all the leg work for them, as consequently we all ended up doing.

...Just thinking outloud.

 

[Jennywocky]

My modkill will go down in infamy.

First modkill on this site!

And Rook was the first official corpse.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

And I'm first to sell my soul to satan and attempt to discard a fellow mafioso to save my skin

Btw i had a blast seeing you guys call eachother flailing headless chickens and overgrown pigs LOL

 

[EyeSeeCold]

The mafia knew he wasn't mafia... I don't see what was to be gained by 'acting scummy'. Wouldn't that give the mafia more reason to suspect you?

I would guess a scummy townie leading everyone kinda takes the power from true scum trying to start anything. I think it would have been a good strategy had some players been more experienced and others more active. The way it worked out zerkalo and puffy didn't have to say a word lol. Artsu wasn't even here.

 

[QuickTwist]

First modkill on this site!

And Rook was the first official corpse.

Poor Rook. Poor poor Rook.

 

[Sinny91]

And I'm first to sell my soul to satan and attempt to discard a fellow mafioso to save my skin

Btw i had a blast seeing you guys call eachother flailing headless chickens and overgrown pigs LOL

Lol, glad to be of service

 

[Sinny91]

Poor Rook. Poor poor Rook.

I couldn't believe that I survived my editing whilst Rook didn't his.

 

[Helvete]

The cops role is aligned with town, who do not know each other. Hado made investigations and found valuable information, it's only natural for him to act on other suspicions whilst he is also helping town. He got some stuff wrong, we all got stuff wrong. The Hado/RB image was a trust issue which they realize now after reflection, their prior gaming experience led them to conclusions we wouldn't necessarily jump to. Cop has to be ambiguous as mafia have to find cop (if they want to remove towns edge). Ultimately town has to try and work together to achieve this. It isn't all the cops fault for trying to also play town (as he should be) and making mistakes, like everyone did. Basically towns dysfunctionality can't be blamed on the cop alone, or any other single town member. More it's our combined failings and noobishness!

Reading peoples reactions to your perceived image is a huge skill in terms of laying/setting out your motivations. I think everyone could have done better here. I know I certainly should and will next time as I'm sure it's what made me the NK target, I was too obviously town in towns view making my death fairly inconsequential.

I suspected hado and or rb as mafia, I wasn't sure if one was leading the other or not. I thought it possible they both were but unlikely. I had another theory that one or both actually suspected each other but were pretending to sheep, which I think would be a good strategy for two reasons:

1) It hides your suspicions from the mafia and gives you more time to formulate a solid case and keep suspicions on others open.
2) Mafia is more likely not to try and lynch or NK you as you are perceived as useful to them.

I know none of this was actually the case but it seems like a good form of self preservation.

Well played Puffy/Zerk

Thanks QT for hosting the game, it was a fucking mind fuck. Fuck!

I would definitively play again and like others have expressed, a simple game would be more preferable.

 

[Sinny91]

Well played Puffy/Zerk

Yea, just finished reading mafia QT, well done!

 

[Urakro]

If hado had called cop on me, I'd already planned to call cop myself and gamble on who would trust who. The way it was going it was still possible to pull off, but I don't know.

You played a good mafia puffy, I really underestimated you. And zerk, I don't think I would have ever suspected.

This game really opened my eyes on how bad my reads are on people.

Reading all of the spectator thread.

it's really interesting in terms of the strategies being shared. And much of the advice being offered by an experienced player or two sounds like it makes sense. I'm sticking it into the mental databank.

It's just really ironic that the same logic led same people to make calls on mafia/town status that ended up being horribly wrong in this game.

...Now I feel trapped in WIFOM.

This is the first time I heard of this game, so that is my excuse. WIFOM: yes. Makes me wonder if it's even possible to gain that much of an edge above random chance.

I suppose it depends on how simple the opponent is. If there's any type of meta-thought in the opponent, then I'm screwed, and subject my fate to the dice gods.

 

[Hadoblado]

Sinny, I was deliberately scummy at the end of day 1 because I wanted some heat, but not enough to get hung. I knew that whatever I did I'd stand out as I'd been singled out as being the only real experienced player (IRL mafia is completely different). I needed to not be NKed. I was still playing around the assumption of NK, but I really didn't want to die.

I don't know if I'd have played less egocentrically if I hadn't been cop. If I was vanilla, then I'd have known that there was somebody out there who was cop, who had a chance of bringing it all together if I went. But since I was cop *AND* the most experienced player, I needed to make sure I kept alive at the expense of everyone else. RB has a genuine knack for the game, but I was also kind of using him as a shield. If they were going after proactive players, then it was me or RB. And I was being more controversial and forcing even RB's hand. I was the one to keep alive for the scum team, because I would look scummier with baron gone than baron would look with me gone.

I was actually challenging Puffy and co. to let me live, offering them the possibility of me being their puppet in exchange for me getting the opportunity to solve the game with cop power and experience. Day one it worked a charm. Day two, with my misread on ESC and my timing issues, I actually wanted to get NKed once ESC flipped green. But before the vote finished, I wanted to stay alive all the way through to control the lynches to come.

I didn't actually want specifically Cheeseum at the end of day one. DP thinks I tunneled too hard on him, but when I got up and saw his response, I actually relented significantly. His response was much more believable to me, but by that point there was no cases on anyone else, and I still wasn't convinced he was town, so he had to die.

With ESC, DP is right that I tunneled too hard. I wanted to kill Puffy to establish all sorts of people as town. I wanted certainty. The first mafia dying changes everything because then you have real evidence. But people weren't around when I needed them, and Puffy came back with expert timing and unvoted himself (not that he should have had the vote on himself in the first place). I could have claimed cop and killed him, but my non-role read on ESC was strong enough that I thought it was acceptable to do ESC first, then use their affiliation to hammer Puffy too.

ESC was what I was doing while I figured out how to kill Puffy. I wasn't sure I'd be able to get Puffy, but my 95% read on ESC would do.

@Puffy
I would have pointed out when I claimed that the only person not allowed to counter-claim was you. If I was mafia and I'd somehow figured out you were cop, I'd have NKed you. Your buddies couldn't claim because then we'd get both in exchange for my death. I don't know if I would have been trusted, but the logic is sound. A cop would know a mafia with a far higher certainty than a mafia knowing a cop.

You were in a good place to claim cop though. Not actively chasing mafia etc., just steering people off who you'd investigated. I think in an experienced game I'd have had you dead, but since town was inexperienced you could have wiggled out.

Even if everything had gone my way, Zerkalo was in too strong a position to go down IMO. True, I would have reevaluated since ESC did not flip red, meaning my assumptions based on that read were faulty, but there was a lot of people that were suddenly called back into doubt as a result of that flip, including Sinny for me. I had a lot of work to do and doubt I'd have narrowed it down to Zerk. And if I died he still would have had my recommendation of him as cop to exploit.

Still haven't finished reading everything, so Ima get back to that.

 

[DarthPunk]

Mafia team played really well, it will be interesting to see how the 'meta' evolves here over time. For example, In future games people may not be so quick to perceive Hado and RB as Mafia when they try to take control of a thread like they did in this game, as they would have an established a town precedent for doing so.

Helvete: I was really impressed by the few posts of yours that I read.

RB: I really thought you were mafia. Oops.

Thanks for letting me read along with the game it was fun to watch.

 

[Sinny91]

I love how this all fell apart because "everybody bar Hado is inexperienced".

Couldn't comprehend his 'meta'.

I personally don't do over complications, I do death tolls.

...

But apart from than that, bloody marvelous fun getting to know the game.
Can't wait to see more.

Well, I can wait, I need a bloody break after all that.

...

Hado you have offended me in your QT by demanding that I re-evaluate my beliefs and methods based on 'facts' you had which 'demonstrated' how 'wrong' I have been and always will be, in the game and real life (Says. you.) .. WHEN in actual fact, your 'facts' were nothing but your own beliefs and fancies. I hate being patronised. Not that I'm one for caring about who offends who, but that is the reason you will find our interactions less enjoyable from now on.

....

As I am such a strong personality, I am immensely curious at how I would handle role switches.

 

[Puffy]

Sinny, I was deliberately scummy at the end of day 1 because I wanted some heat, but not enough to get hung. I knew that whatever I did I'd stand out as I'd been singled out as being the only real experienced player (IRL mafia is completely different). I needed to not be NKed. I was still playing around the assumption of NK, but I really didn't want to die.

I don't know if I'd have played less egocentrically if I hadn't been cop. If I was vanilla, then I'd have known that there was somebody out there who was cop, who had a chance of bringing it all together if I went. But since I was cop *AND* the most experienced player, I needed to make sure I kept alive at the expense of everyone else. RB has a genuine knack for the game, but I was also kind of using him as a shield. If they were going after proactive players, then it was me or RB. And I was being more controversial and forcing even RB's hand. I was the one to keep alive for the scum team, because I would look scummier with baron gone than baron would look with me gone.

I was actually challenging Puffy and co. to let me live, offering them the possibility of me being their puppet in exchange for me getting the opportunity to solve the game with cop power and experience. Day one it worked a charm. Day two, with my misread on ESC and my timing issues, I actually wanted to get NKed once ESC flipped green. But before the vote finished, I wanted to stay alive all the way through to control the lynches to come.

I didn't actually want specifically Cheeseum at the end of day one. DP thinks I tunneled too hard on him, but when I got up and saw his response, I actually relented significantly. His response was much more believable to me, but by that point there was no cases on anyone else, and I still wasn't convinced he was town, so he had to die.

With ESC, DP is right that I tunneled too hard. I wanted to kill Puffy to establish all sorts of people as town. I wanted certainty. The first mafia dying changes everything because then you have real evidence. But people weren't around when I needed them, and Puffy came back with expert timing and unvoted himself (not that he should have had the vote on himself in the first place). I could have claimed cop and killed him, but my non-role read on ESC was strong enough that I thought it was acceptable to do ESC first, then use their affiliation to hammer Puffy too.

ESC was what I was doing while I figured out how to kill Puffy. I wasn't sure I'd be able to get Puffy, but my 95% read on ESC would do.

@Puffy
I would have pointed out when I claimed that the only person not allowed to counter-claim was you. If I was mafia and I'd somehow figured out you were cop, I'd have NKed you. Your buddies couldn't claim because then we'd get both in exchange for my death. I don't know if I would have been trusted, but the logic is sound. A cop would know a mafia with a far higher certainty than a mafia knowing a cop.

You were in a good place to claim cop though. Not actively chasing mafia etc., just steering people off who you'd investigated. I think in an experienced game I'd have had you dead, but since town was inexperienced you could have wiggled out.

Even if everything had gone my way, Zerkalo was in too strong a position to go down IMO. True, I would have reevaluated since ESC did not flip red, meaning my assumptions based on that read were faulty, but there was a lot of people that were suddenly called back into doubt as a result of that flip, including Sinny for me. I had a lot of work to do and doubt I'd have narrowed it down to Zerk. And if I died he still would have had my recommendation of him as cop to exploit.

Still haven't finished reading everything, so Ima get back to that.

I agree, in most games when you had a chance to post you would have crushed me easily. One of my main mishaps is I assumed you wouldn't be the cop, I saw the possibility but thought it was unlikely. We kept you alive for the exact reasons you're stating, so I can see how what you did made a lot of sense as town cop, and you did it very well.

What you've just said is also why we kept you alive in the last round and not redbaron. We were counting on zerk being in a position to win the game, and I thought you more likely to trust her than RB. I could play the last round as risky as I liked as best case I push a lynch on you, next best I push a divided vote, worst case I die and zerk was going to bus me. There's a chance RB would've seen this as he suspected zerk, where I expected you'd be under more heavy pressure if kept alive and might not.

 

[Reluctantly]

Sinny, I was deliberately scummy at the end of day 1 because I wanted some heat, but not enough to get hung. I knew that whatever I did I'd stand out as I'd been singled out as being the only real experienced player (IRL mafia is completely different). I needed to not be NKed. I was still playing around the assumption of NK, but I really didn't want to die.

I don't know if I'd have played less egocentrically if I hadn't been cop. If I was vanilla, then I'd have known that there was somebody out there who was cop, who had a chance of bringing it all together if I went. But since I was cop *AND* the most experienced player, I needed to make sure I kept alive at the expense of everyone else. RB has a genuine knack for the game, but I was also kind of using him as a shield. If they were going after proactive players, then it was me or RB. And I was being more controversial and forcing even RB's hand. I was the one to keep alive for the scum team, because I would look scummier with baron gone than baron would look with me gone.

I was actually challenging Puffy and co. to let me live, offering them the possibility of me being their puppet in exchange for me getting the opportunity to solve the game with cop power and experience. Day one it worked a charm. Day two, with my misread on ESC and my timing issues, I actually wanted to get NKed once ESC flipped green. But before the vote finished, I wanted to stay alive all the way through to control the lynches to come.

I didn't actually want specifically Cheeseum at the end of day one. DP thinks I tunneled too hard on him, but when I got up and saw his response, I actually relented significantly. His response was much more believable to me, but by that point there was no cases on anyone else, and I still wasn't convinced he was town, so he had to die.

With ESC, DP is right that I tunneled too hard. I wanted to kill Puffy to establish all sorts of people as town. I wanted certainty. The first mafia dying changes everything because then you have real evidence. But people weren't around when I needed them, and Puffy came back with expert timing and unvoted himself (not that he should have had the vote on himself in the first place). I could have claimed cop and killed him, but my non-role read on ESC was strong enough that I thought it was acceptable to do ESC first, then use their affiliation to hammer Puffy too.

ESC was what I was doing while I figured out how to kill Puffy. I wasn't sure I'd be able to get Puffy, but my 95% read on ESC would do.

@Puffy
I would have pointed out when I claimed that the only person not allowed to counter-claim was you. If I was mafia and I'd somehow figured out you were cop, I'd have NKed you. Your buddies couldn't claim because then we'd get both in exchange for my death. I don't know if I would have been trusted, but the logic is sound. A cop would know a mafia with a far higher certainty than a mafia knowing a cop.

You were in a good place to claim cop though. Not actively chasing mafia etc., just steering people off who you'd investigated. I think in an experienced game I'd have had you dead, but since town was inexperienced you could have wiggled out.

Even if everything had gone my way, Zerkalo was in too strong a position to go down IMO. True, I would have reevaluated since ESC did not flip red, meaning my assumptions based on that read were faulty, but there was a lot of people that were suddenly called back into doubt as a result of that flip, including Sinny for me. I had a lot of work to do and doubt I'd have narrowed it down to Zerk. And if I died he still would have had my recommendation of him as cop to exploit.

Still haven't finished reading everything, so Ima get back to that.

Jesus dude, even though you weren't mafia, you definitely know how to deceive, confuse, and divide the other townies. As a spectator, from round 2 and up, even I thought you were one. I guess you're right though, had you had one mafia lynch, everyone's perception of you would have changed. WOW

Honestly though, I think Art should have been mod killed, replaced, or lynched just for not participating. Him being mafia just kind of ruins things imo; it lowers the chances of your strategy working and makes everyone ignore him. I fault QT for not stepping in on that, despite that you all seem happy with moderation. Because that DID change the game.

edit: The other thing that sucked was Hado being lynched without any input because he was sleeping. Because of the timezone differences, once someone is voted to be lynched, the lynch should be allowed a final statement and a revote to make things a lot more interesting.

 

[Sinny91]



Jesus dude, even though you weren't mafia, you definitely know how to deceive, confuse, and divide the other townies.

But why feel the need to do this? He wasn't ever the mafia's top suspect of cop.. so all that shouting and for what? what did he achieve? He lynched the towns people and didn't steer steer the lynches on to mafia.. Like I only see his role as a success if he was a bent cop.. which as a role doesn't exists in this game. As I say, wouldn't it have been safer being a cop, and a townie under the radar.

And the biggest balls up was his (attributed) arrogance in regards to Eyes. What I have a problem with is the fact that we had a cop that town couldn't trust... and in OUR game, not an imaginary super meta game.. all that meta crap served no constructive purpose.

 

[Hadoblado]

Town was super unlucky.

The scum team had no weak link. Zerk and Puffy played very well, especially for their first game. Artsu was afk but not a weak link because he wasn't giving away any information.

Starting without rook also hurt a whole bunch, and Sinny's feud with me was essentially another townie gone because there was no way I was shaking her (I accept my role in that). People had commitments or were otherwise disengaged. On top of which, it was insanely difficult to make lynches happen in general. That so many players were struggling to keep up, while there wasn't a single one fumbling for scum is bad beats.

Really what I should have done is go through how the town need to play *before* I knew my role, because it's impossible to teach while also being suspected of lying. The whole town needed to understand that lynching is good. The whole town needed to understand that activity is good. The whole town needed to understand that committing to a position and being proven wrong is a townie thing to do, because it's a mistake a scum can always avoid with the knowledge that they have. If I didn't have to worry about convincing you of these things town could have been a lot more decisive, and I would have been in a better position to influence a scumlynch without overplaying my hand or being forced off my actual 100% confirmed reads.

To those who thought this was all fucked up: Mistakes were made. But they are to be expected. DP, who is conservatively among the top 1% in the world, thought RB was scum, and Puffy was town. Those are some big misreads. But he continues to make reads, and he continues to be good. He read ESC as town when I read him as scum, this is a game with odds. Town odds of winning this match were terrible. I estimated them at 20% to start with if I was replaced by an average noob, and 1% when rook got modkilled. I'd adjust that read again if I'd have known how well the mafia would play. Yet, assuming I didn't mess up the time, I'd have got two successful investigations in two nights. That was a real chance of winning. Just like in poker, you're always going to get some wrong. The most important thing is to understand if you were wrong or not and whether to/how to adjust.

I took enormous risks this game that make me look stupid, because I saw the game as defaulting to a loss unless I ripped the guts out of it. I'd do it again if I was put in the same situation with an all-noob lineup, but hopefully I'd have learned enough here to pull it off better.

This is why I wrote so much in my QT. So I was held accountable for my decisions and couldn't twist them to make myself feel better after the match. Don't worry about whether you are good, worry about how you're going to get better. I know I'm not good, despite just how much it sounded like I enjoyed the smell of my own farts in thread. I was actually buzzed almost the entire time to maintain confidence in order maintain the facade. This game cost me $60 in cheap beer/cider, and a bottle of nasty champagne.

At a certain point I even started believing my own bullshit and was genuinely ego-tripping. This is actually the first game where I've played as if my survival weren't equal in value to the survival of any other town. Even when I've played cop before (somehow I always land this role), I sort of just played as if I was VT and all-but ignored my rolepower. Every other town game I've been quite the martyr.

And if we do play again, don't expect me to play the same. I was forced into drill sergeant by day, worlds greatest detective by night in this game. But now people are learning, I shouldn't need to do that. It would have been far easier to cop a feel of that sweet red ass if I didn't have to push town into action. Every game is an experiment for me where I'm playing with whatever principles interest me at the time. This game I was trying out being an antagonising mayor with a heart of gold. I've never been this forceful in a game before, not even close. Was interesting.

 

[Puffy]

I think if hado had caught a mafia in day 2 (which would have been me), then there's a strong possibility he would've caught Artsu. If you see his QT he wanted to change to Artsu. Even if he did investigate rumi, that would confirm for him the other inactive was probably mafia. His blind-spot was more zerk as far as I'm seeing.

Artsu was a handicap to mafia as well in ways. There was never any contribution from him in the mafia chat so I had no idea if he was playing rogue to his own strategy and would mess up anything we planned. Like in the last round if we were working together winning would've been a lot simpler. We just wait for two votes on Hado (sinny & rumi/neb were safe bets) then just spike it and win. But we couldn't do that as we knew he wouldn't help, so it made more sense to make the others aware of this strategy to deceive them on the voting patterns.

If I was moderating this game I think I'd be very hesitant to have replacements, just because it makes the entire posting history of that spot up until that moment in time redundant as a fresh player takes it, builds up a fresh impression, etc. I thought QT's moderation was fine.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

yeah whoever signs up for next game should be prepared to invest time

and i dont think things would have ended differently if hado and happy were here at the time of the vote(other than the game getting stalled). rumi neb and sinny made it pretty obvious they would rather work with puffy for the time being than hado. and i was going for last vote...


i do think hado could have had better chances at winning if he were a normal townie; he probably wouldnt have completely excluded anyone from his suspicions list except maybe sinny and also shown more restraint in throwing out votes especially on day 2
also:

Spoiler

im a she :P

 

[Happy]

That was a good game.

Thank you QT for excellent moderating.

Well played, Mafia. Well played everyone.

I apologise for not being able to keep up. I was trying. Perhaps in a less turbulent week, I'd have been able to manage. I probably won't play again because of IRL time pressures - it's not fair on the committed players.

For the record, my overarching theory was that Hado was a cop, puffy was scum, Zerkalo was likely scum, artsu I had no idea, ESC was potential scum, Sinny was town. Rum was town. Neb was potential scum.

RB was the one I had no read on and threw me off completely. I immediately don't trust anyone who claims innocence so much. When I started suspecting Hado was cop, I concocted two ideas. One was that RB was town and Hado had confirmed that. The other was that RB was scum and Hado having confirmed that wanted to detract suspicion from RB and focus on clearing the other scum before finally turning on RB.

Well, it was fun. Good game, guys.

 

[Hadoblado]



But why feel the need to do this? He wasn't ever the mafia's top suspect of cop.. so all that shouting and for what? what did he achieve? He lynched the towns people and didn't steer steer the lynches on to mafia.. Like I only see his role as a success if he was a bent cop.. which as a role doesn't exists in this game. As I say, wouldn't it have been safer being a cop, and a townie under the radar.

And the biggest balls up was his (attributed) arrogance in regards to Eyes. What I have a problem with is the fact that we had a cop that town couldn't trust... and in OUR game, not an imaginary super meta game.. all that meta crap served no purpose.

By default I was a good kill for the mafia if I looked clean. They weren't too suspicious of me being cop, but if they didn't have a good setup, a threatening town, or a cop-read, I was dead if I looked clean. Since there were no threatening town (nobody had both the analytical skill and ability to force the vote), that meant they were either going to kill the cleanest most proactive town, or do a setup.

By looking dirty I was making the set-up option look more appealing *AND* making it obvious who should be set-up: me. Knowing that I was being set up (with predictive validity to put my own mind at east), I would be better able to read who was behind it. The more I was part of their plan, the less able to NK me. It didn't matter how divided town got if I could solve the game and claim in time.

I never meant to set you against me Sinny. Once I got the initial read on you as town, I didn't mind you suspecting me so long as you were open to new evidence. But I pissed you off too much, I made you too suspicious. And that cost me dearly.

While operation honey trap worked for the cop thing, I was deliberately watching who came and tried to guide your hand, while also deliberately avoiding guiding it (I don't think I ever could have anyway). You were sort of bait (sorry). And that trap backfired spectacularly when you and ESC got all buddy buddy out of nowhere, when I already had a strong read on ESC as red.

Later, when we'd slung shit 4daysz, I actually started to doubt my initial read on you but could not admit as much publicly, and had to just hope you weren't mafia. Anger breeds suspicion, and I was starting to crack.

@Reluctantly
Yeah, I can deceive. I'm pretty obsessed over how people work, but I rarely play around with it IRL unless someone really pisses me off and I want to feel smart and powerful while fucking with them. I'm not a smooth talker or anything like that. Lying makes me feel very uncomfortable. In mafia I get to play with all the things I think about without feeling guilty. And I'm still no good...

In regards to Artsu: it's part of the game. You can't rule it out because people have different amounts of time to give to the game. It's a valid strategy, but if all scum lurk, town will get too organised and start removing them. There are mechanisms in place to keep them in check. For instance, I cop checked artsu day two because knew that if he was mafia I would have never been able to take him down while other people gave me so much more information (and thus more tells, even as town). I was initially inclined to check ruminator, but I figured I would be able to get them lynched without copclaiming once I had struck red on Puffy/ESC. Lurking increases your chance of being cop checked the later the game goes.

 

[Helvete]

Spoiler

im a she :P

WOW Plot twist Zerkalo reveals she's a she on her 1000th post!

 

[Hadoblado]

Happy if what you're saying isn't said with favourable presentation, then you did very, very well.

I actually thought for a bit that you had spotted me as cop and were deliberately bringing fire upon yourself. But there was a point at which your vote on RB contextually threw me off and I revoked my leanings. Such a read (you reading me as cop) was highly unlikely regardless of what signal I was reading. It was even more unlikely that I read you reading me cop.

You voting for RB was scummy to me because at the time it was a fight between me and ESC(?). By voting for RB who I had explicitly partnered with, you were basically voting for me without committing to actually voting me (or that's how I perceived it at the time). As you can see in the scum QT, they thought you were cop too. So if that was your intention, well done!

You were obviously overwhelmed, not having enough time to keep up. That's fine. A harsh facet of mafia is that people have different time commitments and unless they're stated before the game starts, they're impossible to take at face value. Even though I had very little going on, I fucked up on all sorts of fronts. I had no idea it was majority lynch until half way through day 2! I didn't realise that town could still talk until QT ended the day. I completely neglected reading like... three or four of you outside of when there was something pertinent to my needs. There is far too much going on at far too ambiguous a level for anyone to take it in even with unlimited time. There is an infinite just within wifom itself.

If you saw me as cop, and Puffy and Zerk as scum, then you might be very very good at this game. Nobody could have got a strong read on artsu since no info and new, so with that exception you gleaned every role in the game. Impressive (or lucky). If you did so while also being very busy, that's amazing (or crazy lucky).

 

[Happy]

Thanks hado. Yeah, those were my reads, but I spent too much time perceiving and not enough acting - need to go with gut instincts more often. Appreciate it. Kudos to you too.