Doctor Who Mafia

[Helvete]

I've generally been happy with the way rb has laid out his reasoning and cases; pressure top scum reads with larger wagons and force people to take stances to decipher motivations by how they react to the wagons and even find out if it's likely to kill town or scum. Although as he has explained it he hasn't followed the strat as he's explained it.
He votes john creating pressure there. scrum reads pmj but rather than creating a separate wagon on his scum read he leaves his vote on john, before voting cheese and then happy after getting another scum read there. If pmj's his top scum read then why float votes over other people when he wants to create one or two major wagons to divide opinions to gain insight to motivations/alignment. The cheese vote was due to clumpyiness, as another person had reason to pressure there so he applies more pressure, this is fine but why didn't you already start the wagon on pmj as soon as you had reason to? By deviating from this initially it is creating more wagons than what your strategy aims for, favouring scum by the nature of how you explained it; lots of smaller wagons allowing for multiple people to end up being potentially lynched.
He was also saying he wanted to lynch pmj by the end of the day whilst putting his attention (vote) elsewhere. He wanted people to look into why pmj looked so scummy whilst pressuring others simultaneously which I find confusing. So far I've been mainly reading rb as town due to his seemingly pro town motivations but this does lose him a little town cred in my eyes.

Pmj still seems scummy to me. All I've still seen him do is defend himself and OMGUS at rb. He still isn't offering much constructive input apart from focus on the narrow field around him. I don't like this behaviour.

Happy I can't trust at all right now, he's doing the same thing as pmj only this time openly admitting to it! Not even trying to help town, only posting to defend himself in poor fashion and then suspecting rb at the end of it all.

I'm happy with either lynch and depending on what they flip, will be closely scrutinizing the other the next day.

Also I'm finding Latte's quiet eerie. He has seemed pro town with his posts but they are very few and far between and hasn't made many stances except to vote me and since my response has only posted to probe rb's chainsaw defence theory. Whilst the questioning is revealing info in itself he doesn't seem to be offering any input back, like after he's deliberately with holding from the town. My read here is null at best if not leaning slight scum.

 

[Rook]

**Edit to spoiler, last sentence: Why does rb decry PMJ as scum but vote happy?

 

[Helvete]

Rook, after seeing their interactions I have seen their behaviours to be suspicious which has led to me voting them. I explained the john vote and unvote to you before and since have voted for Happy and Pmj who I still find suspicious due to the defensiveness of their dealings. See my last post.

 

[Yellow]

VOTE COUNT
​

PMJPMJ (4) - Smithcommajohn, Redbaron, Helvete, Minuend
Redbaron (2) - PMJPMJ, Happy
Helvete (2) - Latte, Rook
Happy (1) - Cheese

Not voting:

END OF DAY TIMER
​

 

[Latte]

As for Latte's first post he said Helvete's attitude changed based on worry... ~7 hours into the game. Even if helvete was scum, why would he be worried 7 hours into the game?? I was wondering whether Helvete would make that point himself. I don't want to speculate in Latte's intentions, because they might be pro-town and I don't want to ruin his plan if so.

Other than that, I think Latte isn't helping town enough at this point, clarifying the pmj thing. It would be helpful if Latte put his reasoning abilities to work and told us whether he'd be willing to vote pmj as well and why/ not. Right now he's just explained what some things might come off as, which could be helpful combined with an analysis of behavior up to this point. But right now, to me, it's more like someone stating facts when is being asked an opinion.

"What do you think of Paris?"
"Paris is the capital of France"

Regarding Helvete, my read on him was based on what I said it was, nothing more. Either one sees the same, something similar, or something else, or nothing at all. Since first-day lynches are usually not good, I have no qualms about directing the early vote train towards someone I have strong suspicions about. If I have good reason to change my vote before the vote time runs out, I will do so before the vote time runs out. If the lynch train against helvete gathered a lot more momentum, my suspiciousness against him would probably have lowered, since Daleks tend to influence first day plurality vote quite well.

I have in part avoided commenting on the PMJ train so far because I knew that I would get a better read on both RB and PMJ over the next pages and that PMJ not having an overwhelming majority of votes against him would likely result in better material for reads.

I'll share 3 (2.5) reads at the moment.

Happy:
Him being selfish and underestimating people's intelligence enough to actually be an incompetent townie is a possibility, but he seems likely enough to be scum that I am not averse to him being lynched within the first few rounds given the current state of things to go on about people.

Red Baron vs PMJ:
Even if PMJ turns out not to be scum, I'd put that failure mostly on PMJ's shoulders rather than on RB being scum. PMJ doesn't seem to be arguing honestly. I do not know PMJ well enough to know what that means, but he is in my upper 50% of suspicious people. If Red Baron is truly scum, then his play is either ridiculously, ludicrously advanced, or he's brilliantly winging it. He's smart, intuitive and experienced, but even so, I find it unlikely that he is scum given how I imagine he would have had to think to say all that he did while being scum.
The major thing that concerns me about the PMJ train is how effective it has been on harvesting votes, given that there's only 6 town.

Minuend:
I've been on the fence for some time. She's generally very hard to read when she doesn't want to be read (I know this from outside-of-game experiences). So far the only thing that seems very strongly out of character or suspicious is the very dramatic homing in on the 7 hours thing and how it's written, as well as it being written now, and that I am fairly sure she knows precisely why I voted helvete, as she would not have misunderstood my post back then, and that I would have nothing more to say on it, yet acts as if I could have more to say on it.
Trying to poke me about my low activity in order for me to give more posts to go on for a read on me is not suspicious, however.

 

[Minuend]

That actually helps a Latte. Made me think of things in a bit of a new way.

Also, if redbaron turns out to be scum after all the newbie etc speech holy shit that would be the tryhard of the year award 2016. "It happened to us".

Anyway, regarding the pmj train; jonsmith followed sinny in the previous game (she was confirmed town on day 2), I'm not surprised he's following RB's lead here since he's making decent cases. Helvete and I got on as well. I guess this increases my suspicion of helvete, and I guess there might be something to be said for his train simultaneously being non-existent.

If scum saw to use pmj train (which I think was fairly available to use), I'd say helvete is scum, since I'm currently convinced of the others innocence. If rook and latte are town, then scum didn't take advantage of helvete's train. Which could mean either helvete is scum or if pmj is innocent it also could mean helvete is scum (unless I misread smith and rb).

The alternative is scum deciding to let townies slaughter their own kind since we were already going in that direction, and jump on other wagons. Or pmj is scum and scum have just messed up now since one of them is risking lynch day 1. I guess this at least means the chance of a pmj - helvete scum is very unlikely, unless they already gave up pmj's life and helvete wants an alibi. I need to go through posts to see if it helvete voted at a time when they could've given up. I'll only do that if we lynch one of them and they flip red, though. I find it unlikely, but worth keeping in mind

I'm actually wondering if this means I should change my vote. But that logic is entirely dependent on rook, latte, smith and rb being town. I also think that risks a tie lynch (randomly selected by those two)

I'm getting too tired to think clearly, I suspect I've missed something obvious and have thought myself into a fallible way of thinking

So far the only thing that seems very strongly out of character or suspicious is the very dramatic homing in on the 7 hours thing and how it's written, as well as it being written now, and that I am fairly sure she knows precisely why I voted helvete, as she would not have misunderstood my post back then, and that I would have nothing more to say on it, yet acts as if I could have more to say on it.

It was genuine first thoughts. Having more to say about it was rather in regard to if you had a follow up plan to that post, which I didn't consider completely unlikely regardless of your original intention. If I understood you correctly, mister my sentences are four lines long

Also the reason for the late comment was I was waiting for you and helvete to comment. I didn't want to make helvete's defense for him in case he is scum and should screw up. I was planning on going through both yours and helvete's posts too. I've forgotten to go through helvete's posts as everytime my attention was dragged back to other things/ people.

 

[redbaron]

**Edit to spoiler, last sentence: Why does rb decry PMJ as scum but vote happy?

Where's my vote again?

 

[Minuend]

Actually, I think changing votes now will create more chaos and more difficulty figuring out day 2, so I'll leave it there

 

[redbaron]

Just fyi Minuend I think Helvete is probably scum too. I just think Pmj is more scum and I have no issue lynching Pmj/Happy/Helvete because I'm pretty sure that means a town win. If there isn't 2 scum in there I'd be a little surprised, if there wasn't even ONE scum in there I'd be truly amazed.

 

[redbaron]

Leave your vote, we have 3 wagons already. It's Pmj/Redbaron/Helvete. A wagon with 4 votes means scum can't easily push one of the other wagons with 2 votes over the edge.

 

[redbaron]

Latte, Rook, Cheese: vote Pmj

 

[Rook]

Where's my vote again?

make sure to gather the facts before attempting instigation.

That was an edit, changing erroneous wording within my pmj analysis spoiler, the post prior to the one quoted. It referenced your past vote and pmj's response.

This question of yours irks me, it borders on deliberate provocation, whether originating from inattentiveness or deliberate pretense of inattentiveness, I do not know.

I am still on the wire regarding rb's role as provocateur, whether it creates deliberate confusion or draws out Daleks for town scrutiny is yet to be seen.

 

[Rook]

Latte, Rook, Cheese: vote Pmj

Stop pushing your reads and opinions so forcefully. Helvete seems scummier for me than PMJ atm, my vote stays on Helvete.

This is a collaborative enterprise and you are not the ring leader.

 

[redbaron]

The strategy didn't actually pan out early on so the odds it drew out anyone in the way I wanted is relatively slim.

It did draw a lot of responses though, so that was good. There's been a lot of alignment telling interactions I think.

 

[redbaron]

Rook is town, even if Pmj flips scum and Helvete doesn't. Don't lynch Rook this game if I die.

 

[redbaron]

I'm fine with votes on Helvete mostly, if the people on me switch to either Helvete or Pmj that's fine. Like I said Helvete is a scumread too and it gives me some pause that he's voting with me.

BUT Helvete is always lynchbait Day 1 when he plays as town. So I'd rather just leave him alone.

 

[PmjPmj]

Apologies for the delay in response. Have reasons. Very boring:

Spoiler

Thought I had a lot of time to play, but a project has been passed to me after somebody was ‘let go’. Said project needs a workable plan by Monday, and it’s fucking huge – and in a terrible state right now. Thus, 95% of my time has been spent getting everything in order. I didn’t foresee this, and apologise for the disruption it has caused to the game.

I don’t want to spend a lot of time on this, but I do want to implore people to explore it further.

Most initial posts are made to get a handle on how and why people say certain things. Also you're contradicting yourself here because you said you make that post as a joke and off the cuff - yet you're putting me as your #1 scumread. What's with that anyway?

Oh, really? I was under the (apparently false) impression that initial posts were typically jovial in nature. I’m not sure at which point we all shifted to ‘srs bsns’. Fair enough, though.

I’m not sure why you feel the need to reiterate your contention re: my ‘lolvoting’ you, yet leaving my vote on you. As I quite clearly pointed out in my previous post, my vote is on you because as far as I’m concerned, you’ve done the most in my eyes to warrant suspicion. I concede that I may be reading you wrong, but there’s just something off about your approach here.

Call this an OMGUS if you must, but from my stance I'm being attacked by someone whose behaviour I find extremely iffy. I couldn’t possibly know if you are scum or not (obviously) but you're certainly making me highly suspicious, because I know I’m on the right side of the table. In my mind, you’re either scum or a town barking up the wrong tree who needs to seriously reassess his suspicions.

Nah, not even close. I stated way back in my first few posts that you were scum and I wanted you dead by end of day, but I wanted to see who took to the john wagon as well. People's responses to the strategy I push and me calling it optimal town strategy are a useful gauge to see people's alignment.

Er… ok? So basically, you’re selling snake oil. Got ya.

Until you start chasing actual scum and net us a red-flip, I personally choose to question your motivations. At the moment, you’re just bleating arbitrary tactics. I concede that you are more experienced and this may be all part of some grand plan – but for which side? For me, you’re creating more confusion than cohesion. Initially you were acting somewhat as a disruptor (for lack of a better phrase). You have since solidified your stance on me after the bandwagon you created picked up some momentum.

From my stance, you’re carefully preying on the weaker players. I’m probably the weakest here. This isn’t a defence, before you jump down my throat – it’s just an observation. My lack of time; my inexperience and most certainly in the earlier stages, my cognitive preferences. You know all of these factors. I’m an easy kill for you, aren’t I?

Fair point - my 'meta' has changed. I'm trying (trying) to be more laid back in my approach. You've conflated this with scumminess. You're wrong.

Claiming that you have “4 fairly strong townreads”… eh. So banal. Nobody knows anyone’s alignment yet. What the fuck are you – psychic?

Still, you do seem to have turned a few people, so GG there. Day one loss for the town. Can I get a ‘We never saw that coming!’ up in this bint? I can only hope that people will catch on to your (to me) blatant and nefarious shenanigans quickly.

I really don’t know what to say beyond this. There isn’t much to counter. I can’t be arsed wasting any more time on the argument. You’re wrong, and you’ll see that at lynch. If you truly are town, you need to reassess your tactics because holy shit.

---

We haven’t heard much from John. I wonder if there’s an RB – John thing going on here; RB is very much at the forefront of the game, and John is loitering in the shadows. Plus, the bandwagon at the start of the game. Random target, or… ?

Clearly, this is speculation. I’m going with my gut here. Something smells off between those two.

I'd like to highlight this:

I haven't really read a good case against RB, but at the same time, if RB is scum it's worrisome he manages to sway the wagontrain so easily.

At this point I'd be willing to lynch pmj and if he flips green RB is obvious target for suspicion day 2. It's shit if we lynch a power role, but weighing that against what we potentially learn from lynching pmj ... . A no lynch is off the table in a game set up like this?

You admit that RB is worrisome, but then talk of lynching me to see if I flip green. This isn’t very pro-town. If you find RB more “Worrisome” because he holds sway over the town, please – I implore you to further investigate his main argument (the one against me). It doesn’t take much to see that his entire case against me is built around clutching at straws. He’s shitposted the hell out of the thread to boost his prominence, fecklessly led a train on a town (granted, that isn’t yet verified – but it will be) and effectively brow-beat people with his experience. Players seem to acquiesce because “Oh, RB knows what he’s doing!”

I question his authority – and I’d hope that others do, too. He’s effectively engineered a situation for Mafia in which they have the bloody pick of the crop. Please look at this logically. Am I the only one finding this whole situation incredibly fishy?

In his last post, RB says:

Just fyi Minuend I think Helvete is probably scum too. I just think Pmj is more scum and I have no issue lynching Pmj/Happy/Helvete because I'm pretty sure that means a town win. If there isn't 2 scum in there I'd be a little surprised, if there wasn't even ONE scum in there I'd be truly amazed.

… and I’ll be amazed if I’m not being bussed by one scum. I simply cannot believe that I’ve been singled out as the most scummy based on some bullshit straw-clutching. Does not compute.

Re: town-leans, and do take this with a pinch of salt – obviously: Rook and Latte seem townish to me. Both seem to be reasoned and neither are jumping to any conclusion hastily. They are exploring options. Good for town. Even if it doesn’t land, it’s good to share speculations. IMO. I can’t say whether that’s objectively true.

As I say - I’m no expert, but that’s my two pence.

As those of you who have played alongside me before will know, I only tend to get good reads from the mid/end of day two onwards, because Ni. This isn’t a scum tactic (as RB well knows). This is just a difference in cognitive functioning. I still fail hard at getting out of the starting blocks, but I soon establish myself after that.

As an aside:

Happy makes a lot of noise (and dude – wtf at all the colours ) but I’m saying ‘slight’ town lean on him. I need to re-read his posts, and plan to do so tomorrow if I'm still in the game. Clearly, he’s on to RB’s bullshit so that earns him green points in my eyes.

Helv and Cheese = no real opinion yet. I need to see more.

As stated above, my main concern lies with RB; John gets my FOS.

I have to retire for the night now, but I implore people to properly examine the case made against me. It really isn’t strong. In my mind, RB is a scum player. Granted, a damn good one.

It would be bad for town if I were lynched tonight. Again, ‘those of you’ who have played alongside me before know my feelings about role-sharing. Read into that what you will.

Would it be acceptable to leave this up to fate? If we throw a vote on RB and subtract one from myself, the lynch is decided on a flip. Thus, we either lose a bad town who isn’t contributing much due to time constraints (that will improve after tomorrow) aka myself, or a town/scum who has made a lot of noise and some crappy arguments. That he is leading a bandwagon against another town should be testament to this.

I’m spent, guys. I have nothing much left to give. Believe my spoilered whine or not – I’m doing what I can with what I have. I hope I have made enough sense for you to at the very least look more closely at this situation – because it stinks.

I sincerely hope you’ll see reason tonight and make a prudent decision.

Goodnight.

 

[Rook]

One of the reasons I would not class rb as outright scum right now is that many of their actions were almost over the top in a confrontational and instigatory nature.

While this does not foster collaboration and frank analysis, it does draw people out, and may also achieve two other goals, factors which I am not going to go into detail atm, it needs more time before I can peg it with certainty and may also disrupt a possible town rb's strategy in a major way. It does tie in with the PMJ train though, a train which needs to be studied in depth if PMJ flips green.

While one can argue that a Dalek rb might play in exactly this way to appear town(too scummy to be scum), I would view that as too great a risk for a scum on D1. Suffice it to say, the best reads on rb will occur later in the game, if they live, once more roles are revealed and errors of a possible Dalek rb are easier to spot with more data to analyze.

I also noticed the rb/john patterns... once more, Daleks have daychat, so if john and Helvete decided to mirror rb, securing rb lynch if a Dalek flips, the patterns are there.

For now I still give rb the benefit of doubt, their nature will be revealed in due time. Helvete/John seems viable to me atm, will have to study their interactions.

 

[Minuend]

I'm not swayed by pmj's reasons, but I'm willing to switch my vote to helvete because of role claim. Though, I don't know what he means by "those of you’ who have played alongside me before know my feelings about role-sharing".

It would be nice if there's someone else present who would also change their vote so we don't risk a tie. Unless you want to leave the pmj vs helvete to fate. I'll stick around another 10-20 minutes and see if anyone is present

Switching my vote to RB is not happening today

 

[Minuend]

I'm not swayed by pmj's reasons

arguments, rather

 

[Minuend]

Ok, I've been thinking about it for 6 minutes. I guess the best thing would be to change vote away from the PR

/vote Helvete

Good night

 

[Minuend]

Btw if someone changes vote to RB so it's a tie between rb and someone I'm instalynching that person day 2.

 

[smithcommajohn]

Ok, guys, I'm here. Just because RedBaron is my first town read doesn't mean I'll follow him off a cliff. I am willing, however, to follow his reasoning for the first lynch. It happens to jive with my intuition, but maybe I've got PmjPmj all wrong. His slight hint at a role isn't nearly good enough to change my vote. Maybe that's an error on my part, but hinting at a role and claiming a role will both get you NK, imo, so why not share?

I'm not someone who talks a lot (either in RL or here). Intuition is my main tool, so I won't be observing slight transgressions by people and pointing them out too often. If I do spot things, I bring them to light.

Minuend is right that I latched on to Sinny almost immediately last game. She confirmed Vigilante shortly afterwards. My read on her was spot on and I didn't look back. Maybe that seems foolish, but I have to trust my gut.

If PmjPmj flips green (or god help us, blue), I'm going to be very disappointed in myself. It will make me question RedBaron, but for now he remains strong town to me. Minuend will not lose any points with me. She is now my top townie. Latte and Happy have moved up to slight green for me. Rook is still neutral. Helvete and Cheese seem scummy.

 

[Happy]

I'm not on the PMJ train or the Helvete train. Im also not completely on the RB train, but I'm gonna keep riding the RB train because I currently have 3 scenarios I devised in the shower before bed last night/ on the drive to work this morning. RB features in 2 of them. If he dies and flips green, I reckon I have a pretty good idea who scum is. If he dies and flips red, I reckon I have a pretty good idea who the other scum is. I guess that's the problem with drawing attention to yourself...

Also, to clarify, there's been discussion on my selfish playing. That's really just me wanting to get survive day 2 to set a personal best I tend to die early in this game. This isn't a comment on whether I'm scum or town. I'm on team Happy until day 2 if I make it that far.

 

[redbaron]

Just so it's clear, Pmj just soft-claimed to be the Doctor. If the Doctor exists, you counter-claim on Day 2 and then we lynch Pmj. Or if you really want you can counter-claim now and we lynch scum. This would mean scum choose between killing you or me tonight, so we either keep myself as a strong player or we keep your abilities in the game.

Personally I think it's good to wait until Day 2 but some people think it's good to counter-claim immediately to stop scum manipulation and influence on the game.

You decide what you prefer, but until a counter-claim I'm voting Helvete. I'd really like a Happy wagon but it's not going and I can't trust timezones to make that wagon from scratch.

For now we lynch Helvete.

Vote Helvete

Yellow can we get a votecount please?

 

[redbaron]

John, switch to Helvete please. Pmj claimed to be Doctor and if he's lying the real doctor can get him lynched Day 2.

 

[smithcommajohn]

Vote Helvete

 

[cheese]

Whoa, Pmj basically just role-claimed!

This isn't too bad since I didn't see him as scummy before anyway. I couldn't quite buy the Pmj train. I also can't quite buy the claim wholesale because it's so wishy-washy and basically just invites us to play guessing games, but the danger of lynching a blue role is a problem. So we wait for CC. (Is that even possible, with his claim being so vague? Do we know how many PRs there are?)

I also don't know how to read Happy now. He and Pmj are the only 2 voting RB. They can't both be scum, I can't imagine scumteam would both so openly be the only 2 votes on one person. I was thinking of switching to Pmj before I noticed the votecount, and after the claim I think I need to switch off Happy too.

It isn't likely they're both scum.
If Pmj is scum, Happy isn't (wait for CC)
If Pmj isn't scum, Happy may or may not be. ("Chainsaw defense" accusation falls apart) Likelihood falls down.

I've been going off Happy for other reasons, including Rook's reasons.

Spoiler

Rook's point about tempering our Dalek-read of him made sense. Happy's recent defense has also suggested he genuinely believes his argument was viable grounds for discussion. I'm having trouble imagining a Dalek would see something like this as at all convincing to Town (especially since he'd have one Dalek buddy to advise him otherwise). Furthermore, no one picked up on his unusual argument before I did, several posts later, so maybe it's not even that big a deal. I may have inadvertently picked up on a Townie's blunder/misunderstanding of the game and allowed scum to start rolling his wagon downhill. The biggest thing his argument has done is made him suspicious in Town's eyes and a prime candidate for lynching - certainly not something scum would want.

Furthermore, following more revelations regarding his motivations in playing, it's not even something he'd want.

Helvete is one I've felt off about from the beginning. Happy's selfish town-playing is unreadable because it could come from either side, but tbh seems most like a vanilla townie uninvested in the game.

I'm considering switching on to Helv.

 

[Yellow]

VOTE COUNT
​

Helvete (5) - Latte, Rook, Minuend, Redbaron, Smithcommajohn
Redbaron (2) - PMJPMJ, Happy
PMJPMJ (1) - Helvete
Happy (1) - Cheese

Not voting:

END OF DAY TIMER
​

 

[redbaron]

Chainsaw defence can work as a buddying tactic as well Cheese. Say Pmj is town and Happy is scum. His defence of him has successfully put Happy into Pmj's good books.

Honestly my scumread of Pmj is so strong that I almost want to lynch straight through the role-claim because I'm sure he'll flip red. But it's bad gameplay technically so I'm happy lynching one of my other scumreads.

If he's not the real doctor then he's caught anyway. Either real doctor claims Day 2 and we kill Pmj, or they accidentally NK the doctor and we realise Pmj was lying scum.

~

Also. This claim cannot wait until Day 3 if we don't lynch scum. The reason being that if we mislynch 3 days, town loses. So if we hit Town on Day 1 + 2, then someone counter-claims Day3?

You must lynch that claim because they're scum trying to secure the final mislynch.

If you are Doctor. You claim now or you claim first thing on Day 2. End. Of. Story. Anything else gives scum a chance at winning with a fake-claim.

 

[redbaron]

I'm going to write up a last will and post just before deadline, in case I get NK'd tonight. I'll try and cover how the town should proceed.

 

[smithcommajohn]

I'm going to write up a last will and post just before deadline, in case I get NK'd tonight. I'll try and cover how the town should proceed.

Appreciate it, RB.

 

[cheese]

Ok:

I thought Helv was off from his earliest posts.
Pmj+Happy are unlikely scumteam.
Pmj just soft-claimed blue role and there's been no CC
If someone CCs later we lynch them or Pmj

This means Pmj's worth leaving for later, which means Happy isn't worth doing now (lynching Happy to verify Pmj's claim doesn't work; the unlikelihood of them being a scumteam isn't enough to verify something big like Pmj's blue claim if Happy flips red).

Which means:

Vote Helvete

 

[redbaron]

Also just gotta point out, if Helvete counter-claims just keep your vote where it is - one of Helvete or Pmj is lying, and a 1for1 trade of scum/power role is still a good trade for town and the game would look like:

Day 1 - doctor lynch
Night 1 - town kill
Day 2 - scum lynch
Night 2 - town kill

Which means the game is now 4v1. That leaves a mislynch and then a 2v1 for town, which is very winnable.

Also Yellow, I think that Lylo (lynch or lose) should always be majority. Plurality in Lylo is dumb because scum can cause an 'accidental' no lynch which is a win for scum. Majority in Lylo makes the game more balanced and focus on people choosing right as opposed to abusing game mechanics. Just my $0.02

 

[redbaron]

Or hey, if Helvete is the one lying then we just get scum Day 1 and it's 6v1 from Day 2. So worst case scenario is that we lynch scum within the first 2 days here when someone counter-claims, so don't be afraid to counter-claim. You're basically a cop claiming with a guilty investigation at this point.

 

[redbaron]

Last Will of redbaron

- if Pmj is lying, it's imperative that the real Doctor counter-claims on Day 2

- if no one counter-claims on Day 2, Pmj is confirmed town and you should follow his lead

- DO NOT wait until Day 3 for a counter-claim. This is absolutely terrible as Day 3 is Lynch or Lose unless we've killed scum on Day 1 or 2. You must always counter-claim the day before "mislynch and lose" or "lynch or lose" situations.

- Do what I did for the town today. Find a strong scumread. Pressure people early and get strong wagons going early.

- Try to find players who you think are town, and work with them on coming to an agreement. You might disagree, that doesn't make them scum - look for the things that town should do. I can't extrapolate too hard, or scum will just follow the things I say to look for, you have to use your own judgment.

- If Helvete flips town, think of why. Think of who edged and squeezed onto this wagon after me. Look at people's reasoning, see what adds up, see what doesn't. This is the best way to find scum.

- Also make sure you look at the players NOT on the Helvete wagon. It's very possible they'd hide off it, to avoid suspicion. That's a thing scum do as well. Scum will either distance themselves from, or deliberately push a town wagon along.

- If Helvete flips scum, Latte is confirmed town and so is Rook in my opinion.

- I'm not going to speculate as to who may or may not be scum if Helvete flips green, because it lets scum know what I'm looking for. Use your own judgment.
​

 

[Happy]

Looks like Helvete is out. He has enough votes. I'll leave mine where it is as a kind of statement of where my greatest suspicions lie. If Helvete flips red though, I'll have to completely reevaluate my reads of everyone.

 

[Yellow]

DAY 1 HAS ENDED

DO NOT POST!
​

 

[Yellow]

The Saga Continues


​

The Doctor and Rose step out of the Tardis on the sandy outskirts of the village of Seal Cove. The smell of the bay air mixes with the aroma of lobster chowder as they walk down the main street.

Locals eye them curiously. It's a funny coincidence that they'd have visitors today, after all the commotion that morning. Then again, maybe not.

Strolling into a snack bar, the Doctor thinks he's going to blend in, throwing on a typical New England accent, "Ah'll have some chowdah, please".

The response was a beautiful love child of the Maine and New Brunswick. Neither Rose not the Doctor could make out more that two words, "Jesus", and "lobstah".

A blank stare sits on the Doctor's face for almost a full second, his index finger rising politely. "Excuse me".

He turns around, fiddles with his screwdriver, and leans in to Rose, "Had to activate the Tardis's translator, Let's try again."

"I'll have some chowder, please."

"Jesus, I heard you the first time. Chowder isn't ready yet. Come back in about a half hour... Are you just passing through?"

"Yes, we've heard all about this town on the radio"

"What radio?"

Before the clerk could finish his sentence, however, the Doctor had his screwdriver out again. "Mind if we poke around?" he asks, without waiting on an answer. The Doctor has already opened the store room to find a seemingly catatonic man bound to a chair with old, grey, fish netting, and a miniature buouy for a gag.

"Far be it for me to judge your cooking practices, but I think this is slowing down your chowder production."

The clerk, already armed with a broom, slowly advances. "Jesus, He's been acting funny for a few days now. Muttering things like "exterminate" and whatnot. Jesus, I've known Randy my whole life. He's always been a bit too clever, and a bit of a grouch, but Jesus, that man's not Randy. So who are you? Ain't no reason for you to be here unless you got a reason."

"Exterminate? You're sure?"

"I'm just waiting for the guys to come back from fishing, and we're going up to Grand Manan to get a doctor."

"What's your name?"

"Randy"

"No, your name."

"My name is Randy, Jesus. Now, tell me what you're doing here"

"Well.. er.. Randys, today's your lucky day because I'm The Doctor, and I happen to be an expert in this very situation."

"What situation, exactly?"

"Exactly."

At that moment, two fishy-smelling men barge into the store room. "Jesus, what's going on here? Who are you?!"

"Oh, well, hello gentlemen. I'm the Doctor, this is Rose, and these two chaps are Randy."

"I know they're Randy. Jesus, why'd you tie up Randy? Has the muttering gotten worse?"

"Randy," replies the still broom-wielding Randy, pointing at the bound Randy and the Doctor, "Randy had a toilet plunger in one hand and a whisk in the other, and Jesus he was walking straight at me. He started screaming "Exterminate". I bonked his noggin and he fainted right. I tied him up so he couldn't hurt himself. Then these two walk in, this one has a shiny wand thing, and they find him here. He says he's a doctor."

"The Doc--"

"I'm not sure if I should tie them up too, or see if they can help."

"The Doctor. I'm The Doctor. Now, you say this fellow attacked you with a plunger and a whisk? I hardly think that's cause to .. so creatively secure him." The Doctor proceeds to untie the Randy in question.

Rose, standing next to the other new arrival questions, "Randy, has anyone else been acting funny like this?"

"You talking to me? My name's Walter."

"Sorry Walter."

"Yeah, my wife Karen's been acting a bit weird. Now you mention it, she was holding a whisk all morning.."

Just then, the formerly catatonic Randy leaped up and lunged at Rose.

Still armed with his broom, Randy hit Randy square in the head. Randy fell in a heap on the floor. The Doctor leaned over him. "Randy, are you alright? Randy, speak to me."

Randy's eyes began to glaze over as he responded. "My naaaame is Hel-ve-teeee". And with that, the poor, Human-Dalek was dead.

DAY 1 FINAL VOTE COUNT
​

Helvete (6) - Latte, Rook, Minuend, Redbaron, Smithcommajohn, Cheese
Redbaron (2) - PMJPMJ, Happy
PMJPMJ (1) - Helvete

Not voting:

Helvete has been lynched
He was a Dalek

Countdown to Day 2
​

 

[Yellow]

The Long Night

​

The Doctor and Rose graciously accept an offer from Lobserman Randy's wife, Karen, to stay in their guest room.

She was so flustered to find out that their good friend Randy had "gone mental". Worse, that a simple bop on the head would kill him. "Oh, I wonder how his wife is fairing. Poor Karen must be beside herself."

"I thought you were Karen."

"I am!"

"Right. Has anyone seen Karen running around with a plunger, by chance?"

"No, don't be silly. Here's your room. I usually make breakfast around 5:00."

"Thank you, Karen"

Some hours later, Rose woke with a start. There was a strange shuffling sound outside their room. She tried to nudge the Doctor awake, but he was dead asleep. Panic set in as the shuffling started to fade.

Seconds later, the Doctor let out a loud snore and rolled over.

The night faded to morning without event.

No one died tonight

​

 

[Yellow]

YOU MAY POST!

Player List

1. Rook
2. Redbaron
3. Helvete
4. Cheese
5. Smithcommajohn
6. Happy
7. Minuend
8. Latte
9. PMJPMJ
​

 

[Happy]

So, do we all agree that the Doctor used their saving ability last night? No other likely scenarios?

 

[Rook]

Ah, doc used protect.

Of themselves or other? Or Dalek no kill(unlikely)

If PMj hard confirms being the Doctor, with no counter claims... hmmm.

Happy and smith,john would then be the first on my watch list, cheese and redbaron following in order.

Latte definitely confirmed more of a villager than Minuend, while Minu acted solidly as town their behaviours towards Helvete less notable to any one side.

Happy seems to be the one who read Helvete town more than others(check me on this)

Smith needs to talk more, create their own thoughts.

They followed RB in votes, as did Helvete, which is why I see them as more Dalek than rb and cheese atm, that and their lack of content to scrutinize.

 

[redbaron]

Waiting for real doctor to claim. Also I hope everyone now understands why strong wagons are imperative for town. Even if scum wanted they couldn't have stopped that Helvete lynch. Good work town.

 

[Rook]

For now

/Vote Karen

 

[cheese]

WE DID IT TOWN! WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE WON WE WON WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pmj is a fucking liar. I'm the Doctor, muthafucka. I roleblocked him which is why we're all alive today.

You hear that? We're ALL ALIVE. We're finally going to have the FIRST TOWN VICTORY IN INTPF HISTORY, with not a single townie's blood spilled!

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04854XqcfCY

We did pay our dues guys, time after time, lost game after game, we've made mistakes, we've made a few........BUT WE'VE COME THROUGH!

WEEEEEEEEEE ARE THE CHAAAAAAAAMPIONS MY FRIENNNNNNNNNNNNNNDS

AND WE'LL KEEP ON FIIIIIIIGHTING TILL THE END!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!
NO TIME FOR LOSERS COS WE ARE THE CHAAAAAAAAAAAAMPIONS

DUNDUN

OF THE WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD


I wanted to get right in here at the start of day so Pmj knows exactly how fucked he is and writhes in dread agony for the next 48 hours, with nary a chance to survive.

(Yes yes, I know we'll probably decide to end game before then. But let a cheese dream.)

(Also, I only want scumPmj to writhe. I don't want RL Pmj, with a family of little kids and a horrible project looming, to feel any pressure regarding an internet game at all.)

Back to the partaaay!

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFrGuyw1V8s

DANCE WITH ME, 17 YEAR-OLDS! FEEL THE BEAT, FROM THE TAMBOURIIINE, OH YEAAAAH




Cmon gang, it's time to

CELEBRAAAAAAAAAATE GOOD TIMES COME ON!

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M

Everyone around the forum COME ON! It's a celebration!


-------------------------------------
GAME TALK

Ok, let me take you through the reasoning so you're left in no doubt. I'm going to be pretty exhaustive (and exhausting) to convince you, plus I'm pretty rambly and repetitive, so I'd advise you to skip ahead to the tldr. Only read this all if you're still in doubt, because it's extremely long and probably mostly unnecessary but I'm not going to bother editing at this point because this has already taken hours:

Spoiler

Pmj's claim should've been suspicious to anyone paying attention. He said he didn't like claiming, but then basically claimed while saying he wasn't doing so. This is absolutely retarded as a PR who doesn't believe in role-claiming because of risk - you'd simply get lynched at night no matter how softly you couch it. It doesn't matter whether you say it outright or not, so whatever you say about not liking to claim is irrelevant: What happened there was definitely a claim but his language made it very suspicious.

If you *are* a town PR you're at great risk of getting NK'd, though there's a benefit to claiming as if there's no CC, you're basically confirmed town for everyone the next Day (meaning your reads can be considered 100% honest). If you're scum, it's an easy way for you to avoid lynching, cast suspicion on RB and gain towncred by not-even-claiming to be some unspecified town PR.

Now, he did have one out. Yellow's OP was purposefully vague about how many PRs there are in the game. And Pmj was similarly and sneakily vague about what role he was. Not specific enough for a specific Dr counter-claim. Probably hoping he could claim to be some other unspecified PR.

But because I'm the Dr, I have the advantage of knowing there *are* no other PRs (Yellow told this to me when I mistakenly thought RB might be another PR). The OP wording was vague because the Dr has the ability to grant one other player one ability, so at some point there could be one more PR in play. But on Day 1, there certainly wasn't.

So immediately I knew Pmj was scum. He couldn't possibly be that retarded a Townie, trying to save his own skin. Just in case that's still a suspicion in anyone's mind: my roleblock on him basically confirms it anyway - no one's died, therefore Pmj tried to NK someone. There are other possibilities which you're welcome to consider but they're weak, and the case doesn't stand on the lack of NKs alone.

---------

Now going to try to explain my actions.

Spoiler

Why I didn't CC immediately:

Spoiler

I wanted to survive to Day 2 so I could gain us more info at night by using one of my abilities (1-shot Cop). Information is everything in this game. I knew we had one scum in the bag, even if Town didn't. Didn't matter if I was lynched Day 2 for CC'ing, because my flip would verify Pmj's scumminess. In the meantime, I wanted to check one other town member at Night (which would either give us the other Dalek or one more confirmed Townie the next day). To do this I had to avoid drawing suspicion to myself and getting NK'd. Bearing down on Pmj post-claim even without CC'ing would likely single me out to the remaining scum as the actual PR (since only I would know he was lying) so I decided to go with defending Pmj for now/voting for someone else and CC'ing the next day.

From my QT:

Spoiler

Hmm, defend Pmj, vote Helvete, look at the pressure, counter-claim last minute and push all votes to Pmj, use BP on self, then tomorrow will be verified as Dr and we can work from there?

Means I don't get my Cop peek, but it might also mean we get to see what Helvete's like. Tomorrow I guess I'd have to Roleblock someone to try and avoid dying.

Just worried defending Pmj without killing him will get me NK'd for towncred. Blahbbity blah.

----------

Pmj is definitely scum.

a) I defend him, I'm NK'd tonight, I show up as Dr, he's lynched. PossiblescumRB is saved. Any other scumbuddy could probably be found (Happy or Helv).
b) I defend him, I survive tonight and check RB, I claim tomorrow, either Pmj is lynched or I am. If me one Day, Pmj's the next. Either pass screwdriver to confirmed town or lynch last scum the next day after cheeselynch or pmjlynch verifies my read.

c) I defend him but CC last minute: either Pmj is lynched or I am.

i. If Pmjlynch: Tonight I use BP on self. Lose chance to read, but have 1 scum killed. Tomorrow I have verified self. If still under pressure, will give screwdriver to someone, but could be wrong.

ii. If selflynch: Quickly give screwdriver to someone but could be wrong, I'm verified tomorrow, Pmj dies tomorrow, town is left either with one roleblocking Dalek or a Townie with 1-shot BP.

CC'ing last minute gives less info, provided I survive. The same outcome could be achieved by me just being NK'd. Pmj is lynched today or tomorrow.

This means I don't CC today.

There are just 2 problems:
1. If I CC I could tell everyone there's no other PR and Pmj is definitely lying. If I'm just NK'd, I can't do that and he might be believed. So Pmj dying for sure isn't certain.
2. I also can't pass protection onto others if I'm NK'd.

On 2: I considered passing on protection regardless of the risk of giving Dalek's roleblocking power, because if I'm NK'd, there's nothing for them to roleblock anyway.
However, if I'm not NK'd, they *will* be able to stop me doing stuff, including BPing. Also means I can't protect any Townie I might confirm.

Further progress:

Spoiler

I then had to decide who to check. There was a long agonising process over this but I eventually settled on RB, despite having confirmed him Town to myself already (also after a long agonising process - I had a lot of paranoia). I'd been wanting to flip RB most of the game, because we'd get a lot more info out of knowing we could trust him (since he'd already generated so much content, which would be 100% trustworthy if we confirmed him green by flipping) than we would if he just continued to the end of the game with us in doubt the entire time. RB's behaviour late in Day 1 satisfied me he was Town but I wanted to be able to confirm it to Town for sure as well, so each Town member would have 3 confirmed Towns to vote with and we could weed out the last scum aside from Pmj - I was assuming we'd mislynch Day 1.

Then to my utter amazement, Helvete flipped Dalek. DALEK. I'd vaguely suspected him, but hadn't expected to get so lucky on Day 1 - it meant we'd won. Helv was gone and Pmj would be gone next, either straightaway or after me. I didn't give any shits if you guys lynched me first; in my head I was literally begging you to kill me in order to verify my word so we'd secure the win for real.

But in order to let Town know Pmj was lying, I had to survive till the next Day, since Day was over and we could no longer post in thread. I had to make sure there was zero chance of getting NK'd. After almost going with a shitty option, I went with the much better option of roleblocking Pmj so NONE of us would die, leading us to a glorious, stain-free victory.

Lynch Pmj immediately for intpf Town Glory:

Spoiler

So now I really, really don't want you to lynch me first. You'd be throwing away something so so so cool. I hope to god that's convincing enough, even though me begging you not to lynch me on the grounds of coolness is probably making me look way more suspicious. BUT JUST THINK! WE COULD WIN AS AN ENTIRE, UNBLEMISHED TOWN! IN OUR VERY FIRST TOWN WIN! It's just.... so beautiful guys. It's so beautiful. :')

Just try lynching Pmj first, please. Kill me next if he flips green. Consider how absolutely awful his claim was. (Some small part of me wonders if this was just some horrendous play on his part and I've been horribly misled.) Consider RB's read of him and Helv. (RB read Helv, Pmj and Happy as his top scum. Helv has already flipped red, and I'm now telling you Pmj is too.) If I'm scum, I'm the very last scum left (only 2 Daleks, remember?) and have zero chance of living if Pmj flips green because I'll definitely die the next day meaning my scumteam loses. There's no advantage to me CC'ing as the only scum left (thank god we already got Helvete! otherwise you *could* argue there's some advantage) - it'd actually guarantee my loss as scum. There's also no chance I'd be able to explain away a Dr CC without actually being Dr (eg if Pmj flipped Dr) and still look Town.

Btw, fakeclaiming PR as town is generally a bad move, because you're more likely to force the actual PR to come out of hiding in order to CC you, thus drawing fire to themselves, while making yourself look scummy, thus shielding the actual scum. So no, I wouldn't do that as Town, and it won't work as a defense. Don't let it work as a defense if Pmj pulls it! We still kill him, and at the very least you'll see he's NOT the Doctor.

Why we won/go fakeclaiming:

Spoiler

We actually got pretty lucky.

RB had a lot to do with it, of course - pushing big wagons early on - but winning so fast and so easily had a lot to do with luck. Pmj's loss is a tough one.

From a scum perspective, Pmj's fake claim was extremely risky, because the scum team is only 2-player - his only teammate was already being wagoned as well, meaning Pmj's attempt to save himself (which in almost all scenarios will only last one day, as a Day 2 CC or Dr NK will out him) could easily push the lynch onto his buddy.

Which is what happened. They had a 2/3 chance of losing one member (3 wagons going, 2 of them scum), so fakeclaiming - if it worked - would risk his buddy's death, putting all the hopes of scum having ANY chance to win on the Dr completely failing to CC and Town believing the 'murky PR' defense long enough - ie almost no hope. The fakeclaimer surviving after killing his only buddy is the worst thing that could happen.

Fakeclaiming in this case almost confirmed a lose, and certainly made it much, much more likely, because it narrowed the pool of information for the real PR. Better to go down as pure scum trying to wagon some random, which doesn't allow for info to be narrowed down as much.

Surviving through a fakeclaim in this scenario isn't a good idea since it's useless if you're alone (you lose the next day or the day after when Dr CCs) and the chances of you two surviving together isn't great.

*Without* fakeclaiming you both have a better chance at surviving long-term, because you haven't created a closed-information situation that immediately gives Town a 50/50 chance of lynching you when the CC appears, as opposed to 1/8 as it'd be without a claim.

I think fakeclaiming would be useful on Mylo or Llo if the real Dr has failed to claim and hasn't died, because fakeclaiming then means Dr has a 50/50 chance of being lynched.

Assuming the 2/3 scum wagons, fakeclaiming might also be useful with 3 scum, because drawing out the town PR for your own death is a reasonable trade if you have 1 member not in danger of being lynched - ie, one member capable of doing something about the knowledge of the Dr's identity. That way, your fakeclaim, if it's convincing and draws voting fire towards the second scum, doesn't affect the 3rd. Scum 2 gets lynched when your fakeclaim shifts votes to him, you trade your life for the Dr the next day when they CC and scum 3 gets a chance to NK Dr at night.

I figure Pmj was hoping to draw out the Dr with a CC the first Day, so his death wasn't worth nothing - turn it into a lynch contest between him and the Dr, which also draws attention away from his scumbuddy Helvete. This is reasonable, but risky - because the Dr might not CC, which means the lynch pool is still majority scum, which means scumbuddy is much more likely to die, which *because* of the fakeclaim gives the entire scum team to the Dr on a platter.

Somehow we all ended up voting Helvete. And we got lucky.

Spoiler

Helvete actually reminded me of my own playstyle last game (where I was scum) which is what made me so uncomfortable about him. He seemed unfocused and undirected, strangely jokey while not pushing cases, and borrowing everyone else's thoughts. But I didn't follow up on it because I got completely distracted by RB's random voting and Happy's "subbed-in" argument.

----

So fakeclaiming wasn't a good idea in this particular situation. But at least part of the reason we've won this early was that we had a bit of luck on our side too:

Despite the vague wording in the OP, I knew that there were no other PRs on either side in the game (Yellow told me). If not for this important bit of knowledge, I might have believed Pmj's claim was possible. I thought RB might be a blue role at the beginning of the game before Yellow corrected me and told me there were no other PRs.

Pmj's claim was semi plausible, because the vague wording in the OP meant he could just say he's not the Dr, but rather some other undisclosed blue role. Thus the real Dr CCing might not be considered enough for a scared town to lynch him. (I wouldn't have been sure myself.) Pushing people onto the RB wagon was semi feasible - I wanted to lynch him myself just to confirm whether we could trust his words, because I didn't buy the Pmj wagon and thought town would benefit from no suspicion around RB, regardless of his actual alignment. (If he's Town, we do what he says because we know he's not bullshitting us even if it makes us feel funny; if he's scum, well byebye scumsack.)

Pmj's fakeclaim took advantage of the vagueness in the game setup, and in that sense was a good bet as far as a fakeclaim goes. CC'ing it directly would be hard since he never said exactly what he was. (Real Town PRs might also not specify their exact role, because it gives scum too much info you don't want them to have, but everyone should know that role-claiming puts you in danger of being NK'd.) I imagine Pmj might've wanted to NK redbaron, then say that he was left alive because scum could only kill 1 person and took out the most aggressive Townie while also framing Pmj. (This would be retarded though. You take out the PR if you're the only scum left. If Pmj isn't dead and doesn't claim any sort of roleblocking, any other reason about "framing" is nonsense.)

Bottom line: Pmj's claim is dead no matter the wording in the OP because I was given information others didn't have.

More reasoning/Trust RB:

Spoiler

What made RB certainly Town in my eyes (this is before Helvete flipped), though I'd suspected him before, was that he didn't take advantage of the murkiness around number of PRs in this game. He immediately read it as a Dr claim, and said if there's a CC the following day, to lynch Pmj or the CC.

ScumRB (working with scumPmj) wouldn't want this, because ScumRB would *know* scumPmj isn't the Dr or any kind of power role. He'd want to keep furthering the vague PR claim - which they'd of course have decided on way early on in Dalek chat - by pointing to the OP and saying a PR other than Dr is plausible, rather than setting it up so that Pmj dies as soon as there's a Dr CC (which scumRB would know is coming, unless they manage to NK the Dr on the 1st night - low chances).

Town can't be 100% convinced there are no other PRs, but I know for a fact there aren't, and this convinces me that Pmj is 99% scum.

I only don't say 100% because there's the tiniest possibility a confused Townie wanting to save their skin would fakeclaim, reassuring themselves that it's sort of protecting the real Dr in a way by drawing fire to themselves.

However, Pmj isn't a noob. He should know that fakeclaims force PRs to CC, which puts them at risk and more importantly puts Town at risk of losing valuable information.

I'll lay it out here:

Fakeclaim --> Real PR doesn't CC --> Real PR loses chance to warn town of possible scum --> Real PR loses chance to give info their power has revealed

If a Townie wanted to fake-claim and thought about it for just a sec, they'd see that fakeclaiming forces PRs out of hiding and puts them at risk of an NK.

It's not something you do to "save a Townie" when you're risking someone with the ability to provide more much-needed information and/or protection to Town. Trading your life for theirs is a terrible play for your team - unless you're scum.

I'll also note that my 'case' against RB - questioning his voting pattern and why he listed Pmj as a 100% scumread in one post and at the end of the same post, voted Happy - was copied by Helvete (a confirmed Dalek) and Pmj. Remember, RB was the other wagon going at the time, and RB is basically a confirmed Townie.

As for the idea that RB might be scum casting suspicion on TownPmj who just made a bad move by not accounting for vagueness in the OP:
- This would mean TownPmj would have to have done something really stupid for Town.
- RB would've *skipped* a NK *just* to cast suspicion on someone who's role-claimed on the tiniest chance that they're an idiot Townie who fakeclaimed and will be CC'd. This chance is basically zero. It's much more likely to scumRB, if there's no CC, that Pmj is the actual Dr. The correct thing to do would be to NK him, because either way you get a shot at killing town. Yet no kill happened.

-------


Anyway yeah, my absolute certainty hinges on this one bit of information that no one else has been privy to. Knowing there are no other PRs convinced me beyond all reasonable doubt that Pmj is scum. Which might be a bit unfair. But on the other hand, having *another* Town PR in the game with only 2 Daleks seems pretty unfair, so it's reasonable for the rest of Town to assume the Doctor is it.

From my POV there's no way Pmj can squirm out of this because of all the reasons I've given as to why he can't be town fakeclaiming. So this all comes down to who you lynch first. I think you should lynch Pmj first, obviously, only because we haven't had any Town kills yet and it'd be super cool not to have any. If we'd already lost Town, I wouldn't care.

I guess Pmj could claim the same thing...goddammit. But we've got RB's read behind Pmj too, and I've basically confirmed RB town. With only one scum left in the game, it's either me or Pmj. It can't be RB. And RB's read is with me on Pmj, after having correctly picked Helvete too. And like I said, CCing if I'm scum is completely retarded, because if you lynch scumcheese today, scum loses, and if you lynch scumcheese after Pmj, scum also loses. There's no way scumcheese could squirm out of this. So me CCing is only viable as the actual Dr.

I hope this all makes sense!

Lastly:

Spoiler

If any of my reasoning is suspect, please call me out on it. I'm by no means an expert in mafia and the above are all just my thoughts, aside from the facts.

I was pretty sure Pmj was town and RB's case was bollocks. If not for his fakeclaim, I might've lost us the game or gotten us close.

Tldr:
1) I'm the Doctor + Yellow says there are no other PRs in the game = Pmj's PR claim is fake.
2) Fakeclaiming as Town is generally something only someone completely inexperienced would even consider because it's terrible for town, so Pmj isn't town.
3) I didn't CC yesterday because I knew we'd caught one scumPmj already and wanted to stay under the radar to gather more info at night to secure Scum 2 the next day - then Helv flipped.
4) Me CC'ing today only makes sense if I'm the actual Dr, since my CC either gets me lynched today or tomorrow if Pmj flips green/blue, meaning if I'm scum, CC'ing would definitely get me killed, giving scumteam zero chance at winning (only 1 scum left). So me CC'ing means there's no chance I'm scum.
5) No one else can reasonably be scum. There's only 1 scum left. Someone's already claimed. My CC only makes sense if I'm Dr (in this particular situation), which means the first claimer is scum. There's no need to even look into anyone else for possible scumminess.
6) I roleblocked Pmj last night and no one's dead today.
7) If we lynch Pmj today, we win as a whole Town, for the first time, without any Townies dying.

And,
8) I've been typing and editing this for hours now and it's past 2am. I'm exhausted. I no longer give a fuck if this is full of irrelevant shit. I'm Doctor, Pmj is scum, lynch him, fuck you all.

I will weep in despair if you decide to lynch me first to verify the info. We have a chance at something amazing! LET'S DO DIIIS!

/VOTE PMJ

 

[redbaron]

Vote Pmj

 

[Rook]

/Vote PmjPmj


/Worship Latte and Cheese

Spoiler

 

[Rook]

However, if Yellow secretly gave the Daleks the ability to, say, convert others...

 

[Latte]

/VOTE PMJ

Nice roleblocking instead of counterclaiming first day, Cheese.

Flawless victory tastes sweet.

If PMJ declares defeat, I guess we don't have to wait to the normal procedures, like timer and 6 post count.