Doctor Who Mafia

[Helvete]

@pmj number 1 lesson is actually learn wtf is going on setup wise so I don't screw up strat like I did with Sunny's role. Apart from that probably just general stuff you learn from just playing. For instance I wanted to ask rb or qt last game about how often you can expect a player making excuses about time to be scum. I refrained because I was thinking particularly in reference to cheese. I believed him but that also led to me leaning on a green read partly influenced by the wrong reasons. Basically I held back a but early when I shouldn't of. Then tunnelled the wrong guy..

What have you learned after hosting a game?

 

[PmjPmj]

Oh, I'm the master of tunnelling the wrong guy. Just ask Hado

With regards to excuses about time, it's hard to tell I guess. In my experience (both personal and having seen Cheese's behind the scenes) I wouldn't be so quick to assume that someone calling lack of time = scum. That being said, it isn't uncommon to employ such a tactic.

Personally, I think it only becomes an issue when the player isn't contributing much. If they are blatantly tip-toeing on the periphery, they probably warrant closer inspection.

As for what I learned about hosting... well, I guess I'm still working that out. I have some reflecting and scrutinising to do. No doubt my Ni will fire some insights through to my conscious mind at some point or another.

 

[Minuend]

I learned from last game I can't tell who seems scummy without more info to work with (and even then it's still bad). Ideally I'd be a replacement after day 1 so I had something to work with >_>

I also think we should pressure more than 1 person. Though now that RB said we shouldn't give scum to much info for them to manipulate, I don't even know if I should say that

/vote RB

 

[Minuend]

No worries though, I'm reading up on dank town strategies

 

[Minuend]

I personally liked this one:

1. Don't believe filthy lying scum pieces of shits
2. Lynch scum
3. Win

ez game

 

[PmjPmj]

FFS Minuend, stop giving out tictacs!

 

[Minuend]

Don't worry, it's all meta. This way I'm forcing scum to act according to what they THINK my plan is, but in reality I'm planning on TRUSTING the scum lying pieces of shits. Though now that I've said that, I need to up one meta level and since I said this I have to up another one and well ..

 

[Happy]

Well, so far in this game, there's not been anything I can lock onto and make decisions on, so I'm going to post some thoughts about why you shouldn't be suspicious of me.

At the moment, I'm probably the most unlikely player to secretly be a hunk of metal on wheels. The reasoning here is that I am a substitute player. This indicates that having refused the role given to them, the player that surrendered their place in the game is likely to have gotten a dud role. This is not absolute, obviously, but it's the most likely scenario, and by that probability, I'd suggest eliminating me as a prime suspect for now at least, and focusing attention on others.

This is the only actual evidence we have to work with at the moment, so lets work with it.

Please feel free to share your thoughts on this reasoning.

 

[Latte]

Vote John sounds good because a) rooks flawless logic and b) I wouldn't expect a dalek to be humourous and such making took obviously town.

Also fuck the different shades of blue.

Yeah your right, maybe we should switch our votes to helvete and rb?

Oh wait, self claimed flawed logic! Perhaps you need a bit more scrutiny in the future. And if they're only part human capable of mild humour they could definitely have flawed logic!

Idk when have you ever seen a dalek crack a joke? Scum however could obviously be...



If you believed someone to be town, you could trust their motivations but come to your own conclusions.

Yeah pretty much. Can someone just post a pic of a dalek, I'm not going to from my phone.

I hadn't given any thought to it seat wise, but if it'll keep probing questions, even if to clarify shit to people not enlightened in the ways of Dr WHO, then its obviously a good thing. (I don't actually care much for Dr who, just going along with the nature of theme(trying to look cool))

No. That's editing, stop trying to get me modkilled!

Sorry I clicked edit by accident but changed nothing. Seat is strat. Auto correct is killing me right now.

You mean troll voting with fuzzy logic then soft baiting anyone who comes along? It stirs reactions and offers a starting point for town discussion. We can either play along for shits which offers more for others to pick up on and question or question him directly, or as he may presumably do come around and ask us things.

Since a lot of us are fairly new and your last game was scum, could you explain what you mean by this?

I was under the impression talking about pro town stuff is pro town whereas preventing this or talking about scum strat is anti town. What is your stance on this?

@pmj number 1 lesson is actually learn wtf is going on setup wise so I don't screw up strat like I did with Sunny's role. Apart from that probably just general stuff you learn from just playing. For instance I wanted to ask rb or qt last game about how often you can expect a player making excuses about time to be scum. I refrained because I was thinking particularly in reference to cheese. I believed him but that also led to me leaning on a green read partly influenced by the wrong reasons. Basically I held back a but early when I shouldn't of. Then tunnelled the wrong guy..

What have you learned after hosting a game?

Helvete seems too unconcerned about potentially lynching a townie, but very concerned about himself not being lynched. In his text after people got suspicious when he so eagerly and excitedly jumped on the Lynch John Train, there was a lot of fear, but little to no indignation. When he now again feels off the hook, there is a lot of excitement, but little feelings of worry or suspiciosness about other people in the way he writes. In sum, it feels to me that he is not concerned about the townies winning, and that he knows more than a townie would and thus seems a bit carefree as far as "who are the daleks?" is concerned.

I could be misreading him, but I am ~80% sure Helvete is a Dalek.

If he does turn out to be a Dalek, him talking about time should be examined and analyzed for motivations.

/Vote Helvete

 

[PmjPmj]

Whelp, that answers my question about who the fuck Latte is.

Whilst you make an interesting preliminary case, I'd like to know how much of it is based on game experience, and how much of it is psychological speculations (if predominantly the latter, are you a psychologist )

We have yet to hear from a couple of players. I'll wait for them to make an appearance / generate some content before I start throwing speculations around.

 

[Happy]

BTW, here are my terms of engagement:

Spoiler

During weekdays, I'm willing to allocate my time between 18:30-23:00 AEST (Sydney time) to answering queries and asking questions.
I may check the thread intermittently throughout the day, but if I do, I won't be posting any more than a brief thought or casting a vote. (I don't use my work computer for anything other than work. But I check my phone intermittently)
The reason I'm stating this is because I'm not willing to be held accountable for not responding to a barrage of questions when I'm AFK. I'm not trying to be a dick though and avoid accountability, so I am willing to be fully accountable during the time mentioned above, and the weekend, except in the case of an emergency.
(this was a problem for me in previous games)

I'm not willing to negotiate on these terms.

 

[Rook]

Latte's opinion of helvete intrigues me.

Helvete may just by a shady creature in all their dealings, but so far they have acted the most dodgy in this village.

I won't peg them at 80%, as Latte does, perhaps 65% for now. The main action that tickled me toosh was their unvote, a very peculiar thing, unvoting in a random voting state of affairs.

/Vote Helvete

@Helvete: Even if you understood Rook's starting intentions as a reactionary, why did you unvote John? By doing so, you removed pressure of off a player, and practically achieved nothing. By voting Rook or Redbaron, your conduct would have been more prone to moving things along, extracting responses from your target in turn.

 

[redbaron]

I learned from last game I can't tell who seems scummy without more info to work with (and even then it's still bad). Ideally I'd be a replacement after day 1 so I had something to work with >_>

I also think we should pressure more than 1 person. Though now that RB said we shouldn't give scum to much info for them to manipulate, I don't even know if I should say that

/vote RB

Good post. Votes and pressure should go on whoever you think needs pressure really. My personal preference is that it's really good if they're clumpy early on, hence wanting a really strong wagon.

I can read who stays, who moves and why.

 

[PmjPmj]

So basically... you've fabricated an 'easy-out' for yourself.

Pussy.

FOS Happy.

 

[Rook]

Oh, reactionary means the exact opposite of what I thought it meant >.<

 

[redbaron]

We should fast track to the part where we lynch Pmj for being scum.

 

[PmjPmj]

The main action that tickled me toosh/QUOTE]

10/10.

Why should we trust you, Rook? All you've done is set up a bullshit bandwagon.

What is your experience, etc? I seem to remember (somehow) that you're a fairly experienced player, but I can't be certain.

What purpose does a bandwagon so early on serve? It seems to me a far better tictac to apply pressure to as many people as you can... although this being said, RB took it and ran with it. You are merely the originator.

Hmm. Interesting. Too obvious, or...

*strokes chin*

I suspect a link between yourself and RB. I will be watching the both of you very closely.

 

[PmjPmj]

FFS @ my quote failing.

We should fast track to the part where we lynch Pmj for being scum.

I've told you, RB. All in good time.

Have some patience, you big willy.

 

[Happy]

So basically... you've fabricated an 'easy-out' for yourself.

Pussy.

FOS Happy.

No. I think my behaviour in my previous 2 games necessitates my taking responsibility, and not trying to please everyone at sacrifice to myself.

You can take my self imposed rules with a grain of salt if you wish, but I've stated my intentions, and I intend to stick to them. If you barrage me with questions, you'd better be willing to wait for me to get home and address them. If not, at least I've made my intentions clear, and you can judge accordingly as a group. I'm not going to consistently feel like I need to make apologies.

Anyway, I don't think the matter needs any further discussion. It's not crucial to the matter at hand, and I'd rather not blow it out of proportions again.

Now, back to playing

 

[PmjPmj]

But we are playing. I poke you, you poke me. We're a happy family!

(Apart from RB. He's the black sheep).

 

[Latte]

Whelp, that answers my question about who the fuck Latte is.

Whilst you make an interesting preliminary case, I'd like to know how much of it is based on game experience, and how much of it is psychological speculations (if predominantly the latter, are you a psychologist )

We have yet to hear from a couple of players. I'll wait for them to make an appearance / generate some content before I start throwing speculations around.

Hmm. I don't think it would be in the interest of the townies that people would know my "resume" in regards to Mafia or Mafia related skills if I were a townie, as that would make it easier for the Daleks to guesstimate how much of a threat I might be.

It would be in the interests of townies to know if I were a Dalek, though.

I think the best approach for townies in regards to judging my judgment, is to just read my intuitive interpretation of what helvete said, then reread what helvete said, and see if they either see the same or see something else. My potential experience with Mafia as an indicator of how good my analysis might be, could just as well be seen as an indicator of how good my ability to make a credible fake analysis as a Dalek is.

 

[Happy]

But we are playing. I poke you, you poke me. We're a happy family!

(Apart from RB. He's the black sheep).

Yeah, but in this dysfunctional family, I'm your father, and you can wait and poke me when I get home.

RB is not a black sheep. More of a creepy uncle.

 

[Rook]

10/10.

Why should we trust you, Rook? All you've done is set up a bullshit bandwagon.

What is your experience, etc? I seem to remember (somehow) that you're a fairly experienced player, but I can't be certain.

What purpose does a bandwagon so early on serve? It seems to me a far better tictac to apply pressure to as many people as you can... although this being said, RB took it and ran with it. You are merely the originator.

Hmm. Interesting. Too obvious, or...

*strokes chin*

I suspect a link between yourself and RB. I will be watching the both of you very closely.

There are Daleks about. Trust no one by thyself.

I have played two previous games of this sort, don't see why people here focus so much on experience and past games instead of seeing what originates before their very eyes.

Ofc votes and bandwagojns this early is for the purposes of plying on pressure and forcing hands, though you and Helvete stating thusly and thereby skipping the phase by revealing it is strange in itself.

Helvete's unvote was dodgy, and somehow you mimicked one of his behaviors: Decrying the much needed initiation of pressure at the start, which is pretty much necessary for the village to get the game rolling and the Daleks blundering.

I'll be observing both of you closely.

 

[PmjPmj]

Hmm. I don't think it would be in the interest of the townies that people would know my "resume" in regards to Mafia or Mafia related skills if I were a townie, as that would make it easier for the Daleks to guesstimate how much of a threat I might be.

It would be in the interests of townies to know if I were a Dalek, though.

I think the best approach for townies in regards to judging my judgment, is to just read my intuitive interpretation of what helvete said, then reread what helvete said, and see if they either see the same or see something else. My potential experience with Mafia as an indicator of how good my analysis might be, could just as well be seen as an indicator of how good my ability to make a credible fake analysis as a Dalek is.

Hmm. Good points.

It's no secret that I'm pretty new / learning as I go.

There are Daleks about. Trust no one by thyself.

I have played two previous games of this sort, don't see why people here focus so much on experience and past games instead of seeing what originates before their very eyes.

Ofc votes and bandwagojns this early is for the purposes of plying on pressure and forcing hands, though you and Helvete stating thusly and thereby skipping the phase by revealing it is strange in itself.

Helvete's unvote was dodgy, and somehow you mimicked one of his behaviors: Decrying the much needed initiation of pressure at the start, which is pretty much necessary for the village to get the game rolling and the Daleks blundering.

I'll be observing both of you closely.

Clutching at straws much? If you look more closely, I've applied more pressure to people than anyone else right now. The point in bandwaggoning an inactive player is.... ?

Rather than wait for him to come online and make a case, why not start pressuring others to see what spills out?

Shit tactic is shit; watched Rook is watched.

 

[Minuend]

FFS, I got the thing I had last game where the previous quoted posts pop back up when I want to write a new reply. Anyone knows why this happens? It's so annoying. I guess it might have something to do with open a lot of tabs of the same thread and so on

Also, start using the right shade of blue, you figs ~

It's DeepSkyBlue

At the moment, I'm probably the most unlikely player to secretly be a hunk of metal on wheels. The reasoning here is that I am a substitute player. This indicates that having refused the role given to them, the player that surrendered their place in the game is likely to have gotten a dud role. This is not absolute, obviously, but it's the most likely scenario, and by that probability, I'd suggest eliminating me as a prime suspect for now at least, and focusing attention on others

I don't want to drag people's motivations into the game when they're not in the game, so the short answer is no, I don't think we can rely on that.

Latte's opinion of helvete intrigues me.

/Vote Helvete

Well, you were easy to sway. Noted.

Good post. Votes and pressure should go on whoever you think needs pressure really. My personal preference is that it's really good if they're clumpy early on, hence wanting a really strong wagon.

I can read who stays, who moves and why.

It was a shit post D:> Are you trying to gain my graces. My vote sticks, mister!

----

As for Latte's analysis... I'll just wait to comment on that for now. Let's see what Helvete has to say.

 

[Happy]

Vote John

Daleks have invaded a Canadian island, some Canadians are British, ergo: If we first burn John a the pyre, and then Cheese, it would sound like John Cleese, who was British. The rest is inconsequential, the quagmire of time and space is sure to bequeth upon these two the fate of the assimilated.

Case closed.

Just as a point of interest, John Cleese's father's surname was actually Cheese. He changed it when he enlisted to fight in the war. He was tired of the ridicule he got from having a name like Cheese, and poorly wrote the 'h' in his name on the enlistment form in the chance it would be read as Cleese. It was, so he kept it.

True story. (Source: I attended an interview where he recounted his life)

Back to Mafia now...

 

[Minuend]

/Yellow, do votes still count if they are not bolded and not in DeepSkyeBlue?

 

[Rook]

@PMJx2

Clutching at straws much? If you look more closely, I've applied more pressure to people than anyone else right now. The point in bandwaggoning an inactive player is.... ?

Rather than wait for him to come online and make a case, why not start pressuring others to see what spills out?

Shit tactic is shit; watched Rook is watched.

How in blazes am I clutching at straws 0,@!?

My statements were succinct and clear in implication.

Vote = 1 ; Bandwagon = 2. Pressure is heaped on. Helvete is the mos susp. within my mind, therefore I vote Helvete, regardless of whether they are here or not. That's just silly, under the same reasoning you must now change your RB vote to a Rook, Latte, Minu or happy vote.

Your reasoning does not even hold up for your own vote.

The mathematics holds, pressure builds. And seeing as you toot your horn so majestically, where did you apply pressure 'more than others'?

Cite your superiority, it eludes me utterly. So far you only voted Redbaron, cited 'why not John', gabbered on about past games, reminisced about time/hosting and got confused about Latte.

The only 'pressure' was on me, and that in itself was asking about the past and asking questions on bandwagons and their validity on inactives. Your recent grasping at straw post is pressure right enough, though it is a post as holey as fine cheese.

You also seem to have eluded my statements about you and helvete annulling the pressure phase by outing it, a tactic that looks like Daleks trying to slow things down to me.

Those beast have day chat, and I noticed a pattern between pmj/helvete. Mosts suspicious, don't you agree?

 

[PmjPmj]

Wait. My bad.

I thought you were still voting for John apologies - I r stupid.

Can't say I see the correlation between myself and Helv, but ho-hum. Wild speculations are indeed fun, and that's what this game is all about

 

[Happy]

I get the feeling PmjPmj and Rook are working together as Daleks.

 

[Rook]

I get the feeling PmjPmj and Rook are working together as Daleks.

Hmmm you'll have to explain your reasoning/search your feelings here, because as of now I find Pmj/Helvete to be more likelier Daleks.

I simply can not see Dalek! Rook plying pressure onto Dalek! Pmj and vice versa, it would place them both in the public eye and make them bear their gooey insides.

 

[Rook]

Wait. My bad.

I thought you were still voting for John apologies - I r stupid.

Can't say I see the correlation between myself and Helv, but ho-hum. Wild speculations are indeed fun, and that's what this game is all about

Well, my statement regarding the pattern, and your possible superiority complex, remain. I hope that they will be beter answered in the near future.

 

[Happy]

I saw the moderate possibility that Rook's argument was a flimsy mess of unordered thoughts, and Pmj quickly retracted his finger of suspicion in order to detract from the flimsiness/protect his fellow dalek.

 

[PmjPmj]

How in blazes am I clutching at straws 0,@!?

Aren't we all at the moment?

In my defence, I somehow missed your vote for Helv and therefore assumed you were advocating the original bandwagon, which is for an inactive player. Ergo, zero to go on > stalling game progress. I thought you were dimwittedly accusing me of that which you yourself were doing. Of course, there was only one dimwit in this scenario...

Your reasoning does not even hold up for your own vote.

Fair point, but I'm still observing. We've yet to hear anything from John.

Historically I've been quick to tunnel the wrong person, so I'm adopting a more cautious approach this time. Just because someone makes a few 'maybe' valid points for someone being scum, doesn't mean I have to jump on board with them too. I like to arrive at my own conclusions and have confidence in them. Reality check: we have well over a day before the night phase. That's plenty of time to push buttons, generate conversation and thus content to gauge potential alignments - and that's exactly what I plan to do.

Cite your superiority, it eludes me utterly. So far you only voted Redbaron, cited 'why not John', gabbered on about past games, reminisced about time/hosting and got confused about Latte.

Eh, fair enough. Perception / reality

 

[PmjPmj]

FYI, I'll be afk for a few hours now. I have places to go and people to see, so I'll be back later afternoon or early evening.

 

[redbaron]

Rook was/is playing optimal town strategy. The thought of scumreading the best town player in the game at the moment hurts my brain. Can you guys scumread someone else?

Pmj is a good start. Not going to explain yet but I urge town to read Pmj and see why he's scum.

 

[Rook]

I saw the moderate possibility that Rook's argument was a flimsy mess of unordered thoughts, and Pmj quickly retracted his finger of suspicion in order to detract from the flimsiness/protect his fellow dalek.

I see in these incidents the more likely possibility of Dalek Pmj attacking Rook for a perceived weakness, Rook replies, Pmj realizes his attack was based on outdated data and was therefore a revelation of his true opportunistically bloodthirsty nature.

Was a clear blunder by Pmj.

 

[PmjPmj]

... or just lack of observation?

Bit of a leap there, Rook.

(really going now )

 

[Happy]

There is no 'optimal town strategy'. There is no 'optimal strategy'. If there were, then there would be no fun in playing.

You give me more reason to suspect Rook and now yourself. Perhaps it was not Pmj that was teaming up with Rook, but yourself.

 

[Rook]

*Although a self-admitted blunder, can occur under auspices of town scumhunting. Won't class Pmj as outright Dalek for this, though he and helvete are at the top of me list

**Yes, lac of observation was my assumption from the start, the only question now is the intentions behind the probe: Noble or Nasty : P

 

[Happy]

Rook was/is playing optimal town strategy. The thought of scumreading the best town player in the game at the moment hurts my brain. Can you guys scumread someone else?

Pmj is a good start. Not going to explain yet but I urge town to read Pmj and see why he's scum.

There is no 'optimal town strategy'. There is no 'optimal strategy'. If there were, then there would be no fun in playing.

You give me more reason to suspect Rook and now yourself. Perhaps it was not Pmj that was teaming up with Rook, but yourself.

That was a response to that btw

 

[Rook]

yourself. Perhaps it was not Pmj that was teaming up with Rook, but yourself.

This is far more viable than Pmj/Rook.

RB has been in relative confluence with me so far, I have not formed an opinion on this yet. It needs more patternage, may simply be RB and me having similar town goals, or may be Dalek RB deliberately setting up breadcrumbs that mimick daychat collusion.

 

[redbaron]

There is no 'optimal town strategy'. There is no 'optimal strategy'. If there were, then there would be no fun in playing.

You give me more reason to suspect Rook and now yourself. Perhaps it was not Pmj that was teaming up with Rook, but yourself.

In this setup and with plurality lynch, there's an optimal strategy for early Day 1 imo.

@Yellow can we get a vote count?

 

[redbaron]

Minu I don't need to earn your graces. Your vote is fine for now.

Also Rook your vote needs to go back on John.

 

[Rook]

Also Rook your vote needs to go back on John.

No, we might have scared him off. We have to lure him from lurking with snacks and calm voices before we enact our master plan -.-

@SmithCommaJohn:

It's alright, come now, you can talk, we won't hurt you, come on, in you go...

 

[redbaron]

Can we try to get to at least 8 pages by end of Day 1? 400 posts is not that much per mafia day.

 

[Happy]

I'm going to bed (past my bedtime - oops).

I'll leave my vote on Cheese for the meantime, because fuck it.

I'll be back tomorrow evening.

Have fun and goodnight.

 

[redbaron]

Vote Cheese

I like the votes clumpier and less spread out.

 

[redbaron]

@Yellow gimme votecount pls

 

[cheese]

Happy and RB are scum. Called it.

Also Helvete. Also possibly pmj. Also maybe Rook, if I feel like it.

No but seriously, what the fuck is up with Happy's defense of himself? He subbed in for someone else so it must've been a boring role and therefore not scum? WHAT THE FUCK kind of defense is that? I'm with Min here, I'm not going to accept any kind of bullshit psychy speculations into an *external* person's motivations as any sort of 'evidence' IN GAME. And he *opens* with that, which comes across incredibly defensive.

Latte's points about Helv were interesting to ponder, and I am getting a funny vibe about Helv atm. But nothing is as convincing so far as Happy's weirdass opener.

Explain yourself.

Vote Happy

That said, I'm going to bed too. I left this far too late. I'll be back on tomorrow though.