Bullying-I absolutely hate it.

[Agent Intellect]

I was bullied when I was younger - particularly middle school. Problem is, bullying is a relative term. I'm sure the SJ's that happen upon this forum and see all the superiority complexes, type elitism, and SJ exclusion/bad mouthing can't feel good about themselves. Neither can people that come on this thread to state their opinion and get lambasted for it.

I have to second what someone else asked: what was the point of making this thread? If you don't want to challenge the convenience of your personally held beliefs, why make a post about it?

 

[Melkor]

Imperial law.

Get used to it or die trying.

I suspect I'll go for option day eventually.

 

[Anthile]

Okay, let me take my precious time to point out- there is no such thing as lighter case of bullying. All bullying is harmful, like murders.

If there were something I was to compare "light bullying" to, it would be either

1) Accidental murders- Car accidents, train wrecks, murders without a single motive of malice, delight or pleasure.
2) Murders out of loss of control- Due to a temper, murder was not intended. In this case, the victim actually did something.
3) Rape due to intoxication and loss of control- In this case, the victim actually did something i.e drink and it was not intended.

Other than that, I find no excuse for any type of bullying.

Also, let it be known that I wouldn't have been so furious had it not been that people were bragging about how they bullied other people. I am disgusted that I see people actually proud of bullying other people, if I had not seen such posts, I doubt I'd be posting such harsh words.

What infuriates me further is that the victims are being blamed for being "weak" and that it is the victim's fault. Nothing has infuriated me more in my entire life, it's as if someone just set me on fire.

I'm not sure whether comparing bullying with murder and rape is just momentary stupidity or the result of a childish world view. In either way, it is not acceptable.
What you suggest is a black and white where bullies are ruthless monsters and their victims are spotless lambs.
Have you ever asked yourself what makes a bully a bully? Have you ever asked yourself what makes a violent person violent?
In most cases, bullies stem from broken homes with violent parents and no perspective. A vicious cycle. People, who are violent just for the heck of it, are rare outside of Hollywood movies. Can you blame them for what they were born into?
Do you think those bullies know what they do to other people? If you do realize it and could stop them, then who is the real bully?
Might it not be that you secretly enjoy being the victim?

 

[ashitaria]

I'm not sure whether comparing bullying with murder and rape is just momentary stupidity or the result of a childish world view. In either way, it is not acceptable.
What you suggest is a black and white where bullies are ruthless monsters and their victims are spotless lambs.
Have you ever asked yourself what makes a bully a bully? Have you ever asked yourself what makes a violent person violent?
In most cases, bullies stem from broken homes with violent parents and no perspective. A vicious cycle. People, who are violent just for the heck of it, are rare outside of Hollywood movies. Can you blame them for what they were born into?
Do you think those bullies know what they do to other people? If you do realize it and could stop them, then who is the real bully?
Might it not be that you secretly enjoy being the victim?

You clearly have not been reading my previous posts. First of all, how do you know that in "most cases" bullies are from broken homes with violent parents? Second of all, from what part of my previous posts did you read to derive a black and white view?

The fact that I said in my previous post," As for the case with bullies made that way because of traumatic experiences, my fury at them is greatly reduced, but I still can't bring myself to excuse them for their behavior" destroys your view of my narrow-mindedness. That's right- I don't blame bullies that are made that way because of traumatic behaviors though I can't excuse their behavior.

Also, it has been proven (courtesy of Trebuchet who provided the concrete facts without me digging them up) that most bullies are popular, charismatic and have very high self-esteem. Thus, a third of your argument is deconstructed.

Also, you haven't been through bullying before, so you have no idea what's it like. I would say now that you are being far more ignorant and narrow-minded than I am, since of course you can't see the similarities between bullying, rape and murder. You are also, sadly, taking this in a very literal way without much imagination involved. I henceforth reverse your view of acceptability on you.

I also do not want to repeat the support I provided for my "claim", go back and read it yourself. And if you want more proof for how bullying can be as damaging as rape or even murder, I suggest you check the internet or read a book.

To your last two questions:

Let me place this as an example.

Murder out of loss of control (ie. a temper) affects a certain family. That family has of course the right to justice. No matter if a bully or murderer did not intend or mean it, they still did something wrong, and the victim did suffer.

I hope this alone will tell you what to expect out of bullying.

And if you only tell me that bullying and murder is not the same thing, I will not waste my time on some one as narrow-minded as you.

 

[Melkor]

Been bullied and done my fair share of bullying.

The bullying was mostly until i was about eight, after that I slowly degraded and simply became a target.

I can safely say that i did not consider what i did wrong.

I simply had a low intelligence and pain threshold, I assumed what was a pinch to me, was a pinch to others, and most of the time I considered it play.

The same is true of most cases of injustice, is the victims say any more credible than the bully?

I can't say.

I personally don't think this warrants a thread.

it's like complaining about the sky or the sun....

It's an aspect of human nature that always has, and always will exist.

 

[intuitivet]

And if you only tell me that bullying and murder is not the same thing, I will not waste my time on some one as narrow-minded as you.

What?
mur·der (mûr

d

r)n.1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

v. bul·lied, bul·ly·ing, bul·lies
v.tr.1. To treat in an overbearing or intimidating manner. See Synonyms at intimidate.
2. To make (one's way) aggressively.



Not the same thing by definition, so they'd be right to tell you that.

 

[Hawkeye]

What?
mur·der (mûr

d

r)n.1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

v. bul·lied, bul·ly·ing, bul·lies
v.tr.1. To treat in an overbearing or intimidating manner. See Synonyms at intimidate.
2. To make (one's way) aggressively.



Not the same thing by definition, so they'd be right to tell you that.

I have to say that is the lightest way to define bullying I have ever seen...


Bully - A person who uses strength or power to coerce others by fear
Bullying - To persecute by force or threats



Bullying is not the same as murder - this is a given.

Bullying can kill a person though both physically and mentally; Even literally.

 

[Hawkeye]

One of my school bullies was made an example of infront of the entire yard. He started to beat up this kid for no reason what-so-ever. His older brother came up to him and knocked him out! BAM! He was then ordered to make an apology to the people he had tortured. His brother told the victims to come to him if anything happened to them.

That boys bullying days were over at that school. ^^

Technically his brother was no better because he bullied the older kids...

 

[Anthile]

I have to say that is the lightest way to define bullying I have ever seen...


Bully - A person who uses strength or power to coerce others by fear
Bullying - To persecute by force or threats



Bullying is not the same as murder - this is a given.

Bullying can kill a person though both physically and mentally; Even literally.

Are you actually implying that bullying is worse than murder?

 

[Hawkeye]

Are you actually implying that bullying is worse than murder?

Nope.

They are completely different things altogether.

*People in the room* "THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS"


I don't even like the definition of murder posted either. What killings aren't unlawful? but anyway... I digress.


What I don't find fair are people who suggest that the victims are partially to blame for their bullying experiences. Nonsense. We are not all the same and people deal with things differently. Some people hate standing up infront of a crowd; They become nervous wrecks. Are these people trying to tell me that the guy's emotional state is his own fault?

Or people with irrational fears towards beards are weak because of their own doing?

What utter rhubarb...

 

[intuitivet]

Nope.

They are completely different things altogether.

*People in the room* "THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS"


I don't even like the definition of murder posted either. What killings aren't unlawful? but anyway... I digress.


What I don't find fair are people who suggest that the victims are partially to blame for their bullying experiences. Nonsense. We are not all the same and people deal with things differently. Some people hate standing up infront of a crowd; They become nervous wrecks. Are these people trying to tell me that the guy's emotional state is his own fault?

Or people with irrational fears towards beards are weak because of their own doing?

What utter rhubarb...

I just copied and pasted the definitions, it's what onlinedictionary says!

I did say 'usually' and 'in most circumstances'. I never said "People are weak for not defending themselves"

Please read my posts properly if you're replying to them? D:

 

[Hawkeye]

I just copied and pasted the definitions, it's what onlinedictionary says!

I did say 'usually' and 'in most circumstances'. I never said "People are weak for not defending themselves"

Please read my posts properly if you're replying to them? D:

I know you used those words in your description. One could argue that you were talking about light bullying in general.



Ashitaria has a right to hate the bullies that bullied him does he not? Afterall what is the definition of hate?

Hate - intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear

Based on the definition of Bully I posted it's perfectly suitable for someone to hate them.



You say you are friends with a bully. I doubt you would be if they were bullying you to a certain level. Infact you may hate them. ^^

It's all relative.

 

[intuitivet]

I know you used those words in your description. One could argue that you were talking about light bullying in general.

Ashitaria has a right to hate the bullies that bullied him does he not? Afterall what is the definition of hate?

You say you are friends with a bully. I doubt you would be if they were bullying you to a certain level. Infact you may hate them. ^^

It's all relative.

Very true, everythings relative.
I'm talking about quite bad bullying (as in rallying all the girls in my year to physically attack me and throwing bottles at me etc).
He has every right to, just as I have the right to my opinion that it wont solve anything.
I never hated bullies, I just felt frustrated at the situation and was scared by them.

 

[Hawkeye]

Now all we need to do is target the online Dictionary for thier lack of effort in defining words!

 

[Trebuchet]

Personally when I bully people I dont think "im going to bully that guy" thats gay, I simply make hilarious jokes at someones expense.

And that is wrong. You can stop it if you try.

Its just how humans are and you have to accept it.

You have to accept human nature, yes. You don't have to accept such behavior in yourself, or in those around you. Rise above the need to bully, and have the courage to stand up to others who bully. That, too, is a human capability, and one that is much more worthy.

 

[intuitivet]

Now all we need to do is target the online Dictionary for thier lack of effort in defining words!

We must beat them soundly!

 

[Fukyo]

Also, you haven't been through bullying before, so you have no idea what's it like. I would say now that you are being far more ignorant and narrow-minded than I am, since of course you can't see the similarities between bullying, rape and murder.

Only a "victim" perspective can be acknowledged? How wonderfully open-minded.

Too many assumptions.
Mind telling us how exactly you know a person hasn't been bullied...?

 

[Trebuchet]

Several people have asked what is the point of this thread. What is the point of any thread?

Many of the threads here are for sharing particular quirks of personality, largely to share what is in common with other INTPs. What is the point of a thread asking if people are scatterbrained or have a problem with authority or have trouble sleeping?

Other threads here are for discussing strategies for getting along, such as not understanding other people, or having to conform to something annoying.

Some threads are about how people would define a particular term or behavior.

Still other threads are requests for help, often with personal relationships. This thread, while highly emotional, seems to be right in the pack. People are responding in different ways, and it has high traffic, so it must be of interest to people. There has been minor flaming but other threads have had worse.

So I ask, why does this thread upset people? A young victim of bullying has indulged in complaining and maybe some hyperbole. The responses have been defensive and angry. Why?

 

[Chimera]

Not according to Joel Haber, the author of Bullyproof Your Child for Life. He's devoted his life to studying and stopping bullying, and the trauma theory doesn't hold up.

I haven't done much reading on the subject (outside of the required "bullying is a no-no" lecture/lessons at school), I can only speak for the bullies I've encountered. I know someone who got beaten nearly to death by his father when he was very young, and he had the mindset of a bully before he even started school. He's better now, but I can't say there's no relationship between what happened to him and how he turned out. ​

Shrug. Since we're throwing around definitions like candy, I'd just like to point out: ​

Bully -

A person who uses strength or power to coerce others by fear

v. bul·lied, bul·ly·ing, bul·lies​

v.tr.1. To treat in an overbearing or intimidating manner. See Synonyms at intimidate.​

2. To make (one's way) aggressively.​

So...assuming that means that every time someone tries to intimidate another, or is being aggressive, that they are being a bully...​

And if you only tell me that bullying and murder is not the same thing, I will not waste my time on some one as narrow-minded as you.

Oops, that sounded pretty aggressive. I'd go so far to say it was meant to be insulting (overbearing, intimidating); I don't think calling someone narrow-minded is very nice. Is bullying justified when you're angry/upset? Is it okay when you're only reacting to someone you feel has bullied you? Or are you only a "bully" when you repeat the pattern a few times? Or, are "bullies" only the sadistic, cold-hearted dregs of society that just want to push the world into hell? (Sorry to single you out Ash, you just provided me with an example, that's all.)​

My point is, bullying behavior, as defined by the people in this thread, is in nearly everyone at one point or another. I'm pretty sure someone pointed that out already, quite a few times actually, but an example can't hurt. ​

Cheers. ​

edit: ​

So I ask, why does this thread upset people? A young victim of bullying has indulged in complaining and maybe some hyperbole. The responses have been defensive and angry. Why?

It might have something to do with the tone of Ash's initial posts. The blatant disgust for everyone who disagreed with hir, etc, probably set some people off.
This whole thread is pretty emotionally charged on both sides, imo. @.@​

 

[kantor1003]

Comparing bullying to rape and murder? I can't see the similarities between being called a "dick", being made fun out of and being stabbed in the back.
Ashitaria, you look silly in this thread (no offense).

Regarding bullying, I also share the view like some others here, that it can be beneficial to a person to be bullied.. I also share the view that to some extent the ones being bullied are being bullied because they portray a "victim" persona, or in some way are outside the norm.
Sure, you can dress however you like, you can choose to have a certain type of hair, but you got to take the consequences. I am a guy, I have long hair, and I get remarks constantly (good and bad), but I don't blame the people that do. I don't fit the norm, so naturally, there will be plenty of people around that will try to make fun out of that. Thats how humans (generalizing) work. That wont change in the near future no matter how much you punish some 7th grade bullies.

 

[Trebuchet]

​

I haven't done much reading on the subject (outside of the required "bullying is a no-no" lecture/lessons at school), I can only speak for the bullies I've encountered. I know someone who got beaten nearly to death by his father when he was very young, and he had the mindset of a bully before he even started school. He's better now, but I can't say there's no relationship between what happened to him and how he turned out. ​

That is a terrible story. I'm glad he's better. Of course people raised with violence are more prone to violence, and I'm sure you're right that it was the main cause of bullying in his case.

But the causes of bullying are clearly not limited to those who were abused as children. Many forms of bullying aren't even physical. There's ostracism, for example, or getting someone else in trouble by lying about them. A very common one now is apparently texting mean things, or posting humiliating things about someone on Facebook. I dread the day my daughter finds out about cyberbullying, because I have no personal experience with that one.

 

[ashitaria]

Answers will be in bold.

Only a "victim" perspective can be acknowledged? How wonderfully open-minded.

Yet you do not pause to consider the victim's perspective. Irony falls back on you.

Too many assumptions.
Mind telling us how exactly you know a person hasn't been bullied...?

Ah, assumptions assumptions. Yet you do not argue against my assumptions with well-defined logic and explanation, so I don't want to waste any time coming up with my own.

With your second question, I believe it is not relevant in this debate.

Comparing bullying to rape and murder? I can't see the similarities between being called a "dick", being made fun out of and being stabbed in the back.
Ashitaria, you look silly in this thread (no offense).

I don't even want to waste my time in this. I have already posted my logic and reasons for believing so, so do some reading.

And though I may look silly, seeing your avatar, you really are not much better. No offense though.

Regarding bullying, I also share the view like some others here, that it can be beneficial to a person to be bullied.. I also share the view that to some extent the ones being bullied are being bullied because they portray a "victim" persona, or in some way are outside the norm.
Sure, you can dress however you like, you can choose to have a certain type of hair, but you got to take the consequences. I am a guy, I have long hair, and I get remarks constantly (good and bad), but I don't blame the people that do. I don't fit the norm, so naturally, there will be plenty of people around that will try to make fun out of that. Thats how humans (generalizing) work. That wont change in the near future no matter how much you punish some 7th grade bullies.

Okay regarding this, can you explain to me how it can be beneficial for people to be bullied? Because I certainly see no such benefits other then destroying "weakness". Bullying does not cover up weaknesses, rather, it exposes them. Thus, the logic that you guys share is flawed. In fact, I can conjure up a few websites to boot to argue against your logic.

Second of all, you can't change human nature, but you can change human behavior. Don't tell me otherwise because that is all just BS (and really? do I have to provide evidence for this?). People may generalize, but they can be stopped from going further than that. Like murder for instance.

The law helps.

And also remember that there is in reality no consequences for your dress. It seems to me that you don't really know the hardship of bullying- real bullying isn't just being made fun of. Other than a few snide remarks here and there, you don't seem discriminated at all. Screw the dictionary definitions-not everything is clearly defined.

EDIT: @Chimera: I am not disgusted because they disagree with me. I am disgusted by how they disagree and what reasons they use. If you also look several posts back, you will see other reasons for my tone of disgust.

Is it me or is it that people criticize without getting all the facts?

 

[Chimera]

And though I may look silly, seeing your avatar, you really are not much better. No offense though.

​

Remarks on appearances? Seriously? Uncalled for and childish, and you're just hurting your case. (Though I sincerely doubt Kantor cares what you think about his appearance anyway...) This totally got a dumbstruck reaction from me, I couldn't help but comment. ^__^​

Okay regarding this, can you explain to me how it can be beneficial for people to be bullied? Because I certainly see no such benefits other then destroying "weakness". Bullying does not cover up weaknesses, rather, it exposes them. Thus, the logic that you guys share is flawed. In fact, I can conjure up a few websites to boot to argue against your logic.

​

What doesn't kill us makes us stronger?
Terrible cliche, sorry. In some cases though, it could actually be healthy for someone to be the victim of bullying. Not the life-threatening, "tough guy brings a knife to school and tries to slit the victim's throat" kind, obviously. But in some cases, bullying may offer a chance for someone to get a better grasp of who they are, or how to confront problems, deal with people, et cetera. For example, I'm deeply thankful that my sisters exposed me to bullying at a very young age--dealing with them back then has definitely helped me with many bullying situations since. That's only one example though. (I would come up with more, but this subject is getting old.)
I don't think anyone here would say "I want you to be bullied." But every experience is a chance to grow and better understand one's self, and bullying is no exception. ​

Second of all, you can't change human nature, but you can change human behavior. Don't tell me otherwise because that is all just BS (and really? do I have to provide evidence for this?). People may generalize, but they can be stopped from going further than that. Like murder for instance.

​

Agreed here, for the most part.​

And also remember that there is in reality no consequences for your dress.

​

Since when are people not judged on some level from their appearances?​

It seems to me that you don't really know the hardship of bullying- real bullying isn't just being made fun of.

​

Please, explain what "real" bullying is. I'm intensely curious, and you seem to know what you're talking about.

Screw the dictionary definitions-not everything is clearly defined.

​

...wait, now I'm confused. Isn't this a contradiction of what I just quoted above? >__<​

@Chimera: I am not disgusted because they disagree with me. I am disgusted by how they disagree and what reasons they use. If you also look several posts back, you will see other reasons for my tone of disgust.

Ah, sorry, it seems I misspoke. I meant they got hostile since you showed disgust toward the disagreeing parties, for whatever reason. I didn't mean you were disgusted because they disagreed with you.
My apologies for the misscommunication. ^__^​

 

[kantor1003]

I have already posted my logic and reasons for believing so, so do some reading.

I read your posts before posting.

And though I may look silly, seeing your avatar, you really are not much better. No offense though.

Thanks for criticizing my looks. Kind of funny really. Hypocrisy at work.

Okay regarding this, can you explain to me how it can be beneficial for people to be bullied?

I think it can strengthen your character, your ability to stand by yourself, create a greater sense of individuality, force you to ask great questions regarding who you are and why you are the way you are - all great assets to carry into adult life.

Second of all, you can't change human nature, but you can change human behavior. Don't tell me otherwise because that is all just BS (and really? do I have to provide evidence for this?). People may generalize, but they can be stopped from going further than that. Like murder for instance.

I don't know how rooted the act of bullying - flocking together against a weaker force - is ingrained into human nature. Maybe it even has an evolutionary purpose for all I know. Seeing throughout history how little human behavior really has changed, I have low expectations for us to change drastically anytime soon.

The law helps.

I don't think an imposed law really has too much effect, if at all. Change has to happen internally, not by an external force saying how things ought to be. Internal change can be provoked by educational means, not by law. Have the law managed to stop murder? Since you are so keen on linking murder together with bullying, why do you presume bullying would stop if it was made illegal?

It seems to me that you don't really know the hardship of bullying- real bullying isn't just being made fun of. Other than a few snide remarks here and there, you don't seem discriminated at all. Screw the dictionary definitions-not everything is clearly defined.

There is many degrees of bullying and wether or not I have been bullied - I have no interest in trying to "qualify" myself to you by saying that I have been bullied.

I don't even want to waste my time in this.

I think I'll add a +1 to that. I don't like discussing when someone is overly sensitive to a certain subject.

 

[Fukyo]

Yet you do not pause to consider the victim's perspective. Irony falls back on you.

Yes, in fact I do. I hope I don't need to direct you to re-read my posts.

With your second question, I believe it is not relevant in this debate.

Yes, it is very relevant. You assume that those who do not agree with you haven't been bullied, in several of your posts. This directly implies that to you only the perspective of victimized is valid, and that means that you are viewing the matter from a strictly subjective, personal point of view. It's understandable with the negative emotions that are tied into it, but with that in mind, there's hardly anything to discuss.

Ah, assumptions assumptions. Yet you do not argue against my assumptions with well-defined logic and explanation, so I don't want to waste any time coming up with my own.

You're quite outspoken in your accusations of weak arguments for someone whose argumentation is filled with gaping holes.

If pain cannot be quantified via any objective means, how can you even begin to make any sort of valid comparisons between different kinds of pain?

Differentiate between what is subjective and what can be measured via objective means. That was my qualm, not the bullying itself. As I said many times, that's a personal matter.

 

[Toad]

I have never known a bully in my entire life! Except for Anthile...

 

[Cegorach]

• By saying this, you have established in my heart that you are a cruel person.
  
  
• Okay, first thing first, you make me sick.
  
  
• Thank you for a weak four sentence counter-argument to a 5-6 paragraph argument. You certainly made it feel worth it.
  
  
• I hope you will actually take the time to structure a decent argument and rational explanation why you do not agree with me, not your previous weak and poor argument.
  
  
• And if you only tell me that bullying and murder is not the same thing, I will not waste my time on some one as narrow-minded as you.
  
  
• And though I may look silly, seeing your avatar, you really are not much better. No offense though.

Alright Ashitaria, I'm going to suggest calming down and thinking about what you write very carefully before you post it.
Immature personal insults and excessively snarky replies, especially the last one that was directed towards Kantor, are exactly what is going to get you a temp ban if you don't cease doing so immediately.

Debate is fine, just learn to do so respectfully.

 

[Words]

Action is no "worse than inaction".

 

[ashitaria]

Answers will be in bold.

Remarks on appearances? Seriously? Uncalled for and childish, and you're just hurting your case. (Though I sincerely doubt Kantor cares what you think about his appearance anyway...) This totally got a dumbstruck reaction from me, I couldn't help but comment. ^__^​

Ah, but the subject was about looks, be it tangible or intangible. I couldn't help but compare.

What doesn't kill us makes us stronger?
Terrible cliche, sorry. In some cases though, it could actually be healthy for someone to be the victim of bullying. Not the life-threatening, "tough guy brings a knife to school and tries to slit the victim's throat" kind, obviously. But in some cases, bullying may offer a chance for someone to get a better grasp of who they are, or how to confront problems, deal with people, et cetera. For example, I'm deeply thankful that my sisters exposed me to bullying at a very young age--dealing with them back then has definitely helped me with many bullying situations since. That's only one example though. (I would come up with more, but this subject is getting old.)
I don't think anyone here would say "I want you to be bullied." But every experience is a chance to grow and better understand one's self, and bullying is no exception. ​

Every situation is a chance to grow, but every situation is a chance to destroy too. Perhaps in your case, bullying helped you grow, but in my case (and several others), it caused many set backs. Since you are talking merely from your own experiences, you do not take account into the various things that can occur due to bad situations. I definitely do not see mental disorders as a way to grow.

Agreed here, for the most part.​

Since when are people not judged on some level from their appearances?​

Perhaps when it comes to intensely mature people who look belong appearances.

Please, explain what "real" bullying is. I'm intensely curious, and you seem to know what you're talking about.
Ah, I think I'll leave it up to a PM
​

...wait, now I'm confused. Isn't this a contradiction of what I just quoted above? >__<​

I'm going to have to go back and read my own stuff to answer you.

Ah, sorry, it seems I misspoke. I meant they got hostile since you showed disgust toward the disagreeing parties, for whatever reason. I didn't mean you were disgusted because they disagreed with you.
My apologies for the misscommunication. ^__^
Glad you feel that way. I just came back from a real happy event, thus the change in my tone. I'm also kind of regretting my harsh words, but I think it was kinda asked for. Now for the more offended people...
​

I read your posts before posting.

Thanks for criticizing my looks. Kind of funny really. Hypocrisy at work.

I see hypocrisy too. After all, you did bring up the subject of looks. Right?

I think it can strengthen your character, your ability to stand by yourself, create a greater sense of individuality, force you to ask great questions regarding who you are and why you are the way you are - all great assets to carry into adult life.

What you think isn't always what you know. I'd like to see you do a thorough study on bullying before telling me what your beliefs are. Then I may greatly consider your words.

I don't know how rooted the act of bullying - flocking together against a weaker force - is ingrained into human nature. Maybe it even has an evolutionary purpose for all I know. Seeing throughout history how little human behavior really has changed, I have low expectations for us to change drastically anytime soon.

I agree. Yay! The first time I'm not annoyed by another person's post!

I don't think an imposed law really has too much effect, if at all. Change has to happen internally, not by an external force saying how things ought to be. Internal change can be provoked by educational means, not by law. Have the law managed to stop murder? Since you are so keen on linking murder together with bullying, why do you presume bullying would stop if it was made illegal?

You are taking into context that we are all internally affected and independent individuals. This is not true. The world is ruled by SJs or SPs, most of what they follow are things taught from birth, and they greatly respect authority and rules. Education definitely will help though, I find it to be a much more plausible solution, but law will definitely help.

Of course, law has not entirely stopped murder, but you have to agree it reduces it greatly. The law will not stop bullying, but it will reduce it greatly. Just like when blacks were liberated. Not all blacks have the same rights as whites, but most of them do.

There is many degrees of bullying and wether or not I have been bullied - I have no interest in trying to "qualify" myself to you by saying that I have been bullied.

Neither do I.

I think I'll add a +1 to that. I don't like discussing when someone is overly sensitive to a certain subject.

Yes, in fact I do. I hope I don't need to direct you to re-read my posts.

Me too. I have a headache.

Yes, it is very relevant. You assume that those who do not agree with you haven't been bullied, in several of your posts. This directly implies that to you only the perspective of victimized is valid, and that means that you are viewing the matter from a strictly subjective, personal point of view. It's understandable with the negative emotions that are tied into it, but with that in mind, there's hardly anything to discuss.

I'm not assuming that those who do not agree with me have not been bullied. But currently, I'm talking and debating with people who have not been bullied, thus the impression that I'm doing so. As for everything else, I find no need to answer.

You're quite outspoken in your accusations of weak arguments for someone whose argumentation is filled with gaping holes.

May you pick out those gaping holes for my benefit and others? I don't find any reason to listen to you unless you show evidence for it. Of course though, be almost a hundred percent sure that I will provide evidence for the holes you provide.

If pain cannot be quantified via any objective means, how can you even begin to make any sort of valid comparisons between different kinds of pain?

What do you think? Pain cannot be measured, but there are definitely more amounts of pain than the other. Thus, comparisons can be made.

Differentiate between what is subjective and what can be measured via objective means. That was my qualm, not the bullying itself. As I said many times, that's a personal matter.

You will know what is subjective and what is objective when you present an argument. Then you will know what is subjective or objective. My fingers will be itching to tell you about it, i promise.

 

[ashitaria]

Alright Ashitaria, I'm going to suggest calming down and thinking about what you write very carefully before you post it.
Immature personal insults and excessively snarky replies, especially the last one that was directed towards Kantor, are exactly what is going to get you a temp ban if you don't cease doing so immediately.

Debate is fine, just learn to do so respectfully.

Ah...mod time ain't it? I was pretty sure that the mods would be brought here...

But oh well. Since I have already posted, no harm done.

 

[Fukyo]

I'm not assuming that those who do not agree with me have not been bullied.

But currently, I'm talking and debating with people who have not been bullied,

These two statements contradict each other, and they will continue to do so until you provide proof as to how you know this, which you've avoided on two occasions now. I believe this qualifies as an answer to:

May you pick out those gaping holes for my benefit and others? I don't find any reason to listen to you unless you show evidence for it.

as well as:

Pain cannot be measured, but there are definitely more amounts of pain than the other. Thus, comparisons can be made.

Contradiction, again. "Pain can not be measured, but there are definitely more amounts of pain than the other." These two statements cannot co-exist because in order to determine an amount of something it must be measured. Pain is only measured subjectively, but not empirically, and thus claiming any sort of universal objectivity to this is impossible.

You will know what is subjective and what is objective when you present an argument. Then you will know what is subjective or objective. My fingers will be itching to tell you about it, i promise.

How condescending. Have fun with that attitude.

ps. It would be nice if you would make an effort to format your posts properly. Answering within quote tags makes it more difficult for those who reply to you to format their posts.

 

[ashitaria]

These two statements contradict each other, and they will continue to do so until you provide proof as to how you know this, which you've avoided on two occasions now. I believe this qualifies as an answer to:



as well as:



Contradiction, again. "Pain can not be measured, but there are definitely more amounts of pain than the other." These two statements cannot co-exist because in order to determine an amount something it must be measured. Pain is only measured subjectively, but not empirically, and thus claiming any sort of universal objectivity to this is impossible.




How condescending. Have fun with that attitude.

ps. It would be nice if you would make an effort to format your posts properly. Answering within quote tags makes it more difficult for those who reply to you to format their posts.

It seems you are taking everything very literally. Very well. I will show you literally what I mean by each of the posts you showed.

The first one you quoted was a reply to another person, as you have noticed. During that time, I was debating with people with more experience with bullying, henceforth the "contradiction".

The second one apples too: remember when I wrote, "currently"? I do hope you know what I mean by currently. I remember clearly that ever since today, the majority of my attention was focused on you and other members (such as kantor) who clearly have not experienced much bullying.

So thus, your "gapehole" is covered.

The third one, very simple. I had simply asked you to point out the flaws for my benefits so that I could fix them. Now that the context has been dumbed down, I'm sure you'll get what I mean.

The fourth, you take this extremely literally, so let me direct your attention to the abstract. Can you measure hate Fukyo? Can you measure love? No. But they often have varying amounts. Same thing with this one. Fukyo, of all people, you should know that not everything is mathematical and precise, and that the universal truth isn't exactly the universal truth. Can you speak in absolute truths?

I admit, such things cannot be measured empirically, but they can definitely be measured, though subjectively. And of course, to compare things, they must be measured, which was exactly what I did, only not empirically.

Fifth, thank you. I'm already having fun.

 

[Jesin]

I remember clearly that ever since today, the majority of my attention was focused on you and other members (such as kantor) who clearly have not experienced much bullying.

How is that clear? How do you know?

 

[Fukyo]

the majority of my attention was focused on you and other members (such as kantor) who clearly have not experienced much bullying.

For the n-th time, how do you know this? How?

The fourth, you take this extremely literally, so let me direct your attention to the abstract. Can you measure hate Fukyo? Can you measure love? No. But they often have varying amounts. Same thing with this one. Fukyo, of all people, you should know that not everything is mathematical and precise, and that the universal truth isn't exactly the universal truth. Can you speak in absolute truths?

Abstractions are pretty, but useless within logical frameworks as their accuracy is dubious. Given that the "amount" of emotion varies between persons, it cannot be made into a universally valid comparison. Use more precision in your language, to avoid people nitpicking at your logic.

 

[ashitaria]

Okay to answer both of your questions...
I used my Ne, in other words, if you were bullied in any time of your life, you would mention it, even if you didn't at first as I did afterall made a claim that made it possible to determine who was bullied and who was not. Since most of the people that I concentrated on debating against either

1) admitted that they have never been bullied,
2) admitted to having attempts on bullying them but were never bullied,
3) admitted to weird looks or snide remarks about them but were never bullied
4) etc.

from then on it should be self-explanatory.

Also, if you guys look closely, I have been using a fair bit of sarcasm. Just saying though.

 

[Anthile]

I have been bullied in my life. Your argument is invalid.

Also, if you guys look closely, I have been using a fair bit of sarcasm. Just saying though.

There is even a trope for this. It's funny how these things appear everywhere.

 

[JUN]

I've been bullied, until one day I kicked the guy in the face/stopped hanging out with that people.

Btw: he got suspended, I didn't.

Stop your bitching ashitaria, it's just people being people, deal with it.

 

[kantor1003]

I see hypocrisy too. After all, you did bring up the subject of looks. Right?

Eh, no. I mentioned how I found your bully/murder comparison beyond reason then proceeding with "ashitaria, you look silly in this thread". This doesn't have anything to do with looks, but with your arguments/statements.. And even if I had criticized your looks, there wouldn't really be any hypocrisy to be found as I am not the one strongly against bullying.
Let's just leave it at that. I'm done with this thread

 

[ashitaria]

I have been bullied in my life. Your argument is invalid.






There is even a trope for this. It's funny how these things appear everywhere.

I don't remember any part of my statement directed to you, so I don't see how it's invalid.

Oh, and a trope! Did I ever tell you how smart people get when they show tropes?

I've been bullied, until one day I kicked the guy in the face/stopped hanging out with that people.

Btw: he got suspended, I didn't.

Stop your bitching ashitaria, it's just people being people, deal with it.

Same with you. And you should stop your bitching, after all, it's just me being me. Deal with it.

Eh, no. I mentioned how I found your bully/murder comparison beyond reason then proceeding with "ashitaria, you look silly in this thread". This doesn't have anything to do with looks, but with your arguments/statements.. And even if I had criticized your looks, there wouldn't really be any hypocrisy to be found as I am not the one strongly against bullying.
Let's just leave it at that. I'm done with this thread

Alright then.

 

[Kuu]

I've been cyber-bullied by Ashitaria by just reading this thread.... I think we've all been

 

[Maiken]

I've been bullied most of my life. From kindergarden class to the 7th grade we were nine girls and one boy in my class. The girls were extremely mean, not only to me but also each other. I was the weirdest though, so I took most of it. They called me fat, gave me notes telling me that I should just die and made it clear that I was NOT part of the group. It has really messed me up. I have a hard time relating to others because I can't believe that anyone would actually like me. Whenever someone is nice to me I freak out because I don't know how to handle it and I don't trust them. I've kind of given up on the idea of a relationship because I don't think I'll ever be able to trust another person enough.

But I don't hate those girls for it. I've learned that most of them have had an aweful time growing up. They had to survive somehow and they took their pain out on me. A lot of them have told me that they are sorry for what they did to me and I'm friends with a few of them today. It's funny, no matter how bad things have been I've never wanted to be anybody els but me, but some of the girls who were mean to me have later told me that they wished they were more like me.

People have different reasons to bully and be mean to others. When you talk with someone they always agree the you should treat others nicely, but if they meet someone they don't like they will justify being mean to them in their own head.

 

[Fukyo]

I don't remember any part of my statement directed to you, so I don't see how it's invalid.

See post #54.

Oh, and a trope! Did I ever tell you how smart people get when they show tropes?

Whoa, whoa there, don't be dissin' the tropes.

I used my Ne, in other words, if you were bullied in any time of your life, you would mention it, even if you didn't at first as I did afterall made a claim that made it possible to determine who was bullied and who was not.

So this is the assumption you made that those who experienced bullying would be able to understand and agree with your attitudes toward it.Thanks for finally spitting it out. That's called an emotional appeal btw (and a fail way to confirm anything), hopefully I don't need to tell you how much of a fallacy that is in an argument.

Sorry but my 'objective fingers were just itching to tell you about it' and all that...

I'm done derailing this with arguing semantics and etc. now, so that people can return to discussing the original topic.

 

[s0nystyle]

I've been cyber-bullied by Ashitaria by just reading this thread.... I think we've all been

^ This

 

[ashitaria]

Answers will be in bold.

See post #54.
....ok.....
EDIT: I don't see any such at post 54. And thanks to you, I just lost 10 secs.

Whoa, whoa there, don't be dissin' the tropes.
....the wut?


So this is the assumption you made that those who experienced bullying would be able to understand and agree with your attitudes toward it.Thanks for finally spitting it out. That's called an emotional appeal btw (and a fail way to confirm anything), hopefully I don't need to tell you how much of a fallacy that is in an argument.

Sorry but my 'objective fingers were just itching to tell you about it' and all that...

I'm done derailing this with arguing semantics and etc. now, so that people can return to discussing the original topic.

....What? Okay, first of all, I never made the assumption that those who experienced bullying would understand let alone agree with my attitudes towards it. As far as I know, with the way you put words in my mouth, I think you're the one using emotional appeal, and blah blah blah.
Second of all, you've completely gone off the topic. All I mentioned was how I know that the people that I was debating against were not bullied (that much). And look back, you will see that my suspicions were confirmed (for Kantor, Chimera, You, Wadlez). So I don't see any fallacy in my argument (what are we arguing about anyways? How do identify the bullied or my view-points?).
Anyway, I think this thread has gone so far off-topic that it's impossible to redeem it. You of all people should know, and I'm still pretty convinced that unless you want to give up arguing semantics, the argument over semantics isn't over yet.
And as for the finger itching, my fingers are really itching now.

 

[s0nystyle]

ashitaria i think you need a different way to vent your frusteration

 

[MHT]

Im with ashitaria on this one. Bullying is wrong. And no, the bullies are not actually the victims, they are more confident that meets the eye. They are, stronger and more confident then their victims. Yes, its hard to believe when you heard that bullies only vent out their frustrations at others to solve problems inside themselves. Being a bullied person through middle school I know how it works. But I ended it later after a month. Took a hammer from the Crafts and Workshop in school. Then it was just fun, it was only proper and justified that I dealt the same amount of pain and damage as he did to me. Facial bone cracked, concussion and 2 broken teeth. No ban from school either. Fucking win. Ever since that not a single fuck dares to fuck with me. I nearly long for someone to bully me and face a hammer in their face.

 

[Trebuchet]

ashitaria i think you need a different way to vent your frusteration

Why? An anonymous forum seems like a perfect place to vent. No one can be physically harmed, and no one is required to read it or participate.

 

[JUN]

Why? An anonymous forum seems like a perfect place to vent. No one can be physically harmed, and no one is required to read it or participate.

... Uh ok well...

Uhm...

I don't even...

What is this ? Why ?

Just, this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum

 

[ashitaria]

No one can be physically harmed, and no one is required to read it or participate.

That's one good thing about online forums. When I lose my temper, no one get's hurt, except perhaps my hand.

@Ran: Just stop. Please.

 

[JUN]

That's one good thing about online forums. When I lose my temper, no one get's hurt, except perhaps my hand.

@Ran: Just stop. Please.

You're 14 right ?