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Bullying-I absolutely hate it.

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ashitaria

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I've always hated bullying with a passion, to the point where every movie, news story, or story makes me want to fly to the bullies, burn them up, and go off and live as a hermit. Being an INTP, I'm a bit shocked by my emotions about this.

I guess it's because I have experienced a fair share of bullying myself. I remember being verbally and psychologically abused, I was excluded from groups, taunted and horrible songs were made about me.

Physically though, I had never been truly bullied, though attempts were made. People who physically tried to bully me had stopped after the first physical encounter, but never stopped bullying me verbally or psychologically, and it also didn't mean they didn't try to trip me over, throw things at me, tap my shoulder when my back was turned, hit me and run away, and all the cowardly things that people do when they want to hurt you and not get hurt in return.

In the end, witty comebacks, clever insults and a wide range of vocabulary means nothing if everyone and everything is against you. When everyone hates you and wants to give you shit, no one will give you the chance to speak. They will laugh over you. They will shout over you. They will make funny noises so that no one can hear what you say.

I've always been fired up about bullying, because I find it to be the most repulsive action that ever is.

Murder- it only happens once. Perhaps you get raped, perhaps you get tortured, but you don't have to live with the shame afterward.

Bullying? You face it day after day after day. You hate going to school. You go suicidal, you go angry and resentful and you question yourself. It's like being tortured and murdered and raped everyday.

"What's wrong with me that everyone hates me?"

Now, being in high school, and ultimately much more socially adept (I make jokes) due to the many experiences in my previous school, I fare much better. Some times I wish to forget my past, but it's hard to put that behind you, especially the memory of those stupid, cruel, laughing faces.

Sometimes I look back and realize with satisfaction that I had indeed got even with the main tormentors of my life. I had scared them, pushed them against walls, screamed at them and fought back.

But I also look back and remember with fury the way they treated me.

The out-cast, the American-Chinese, the kid who just wanted to be left alone.

Slowly I'm healing though. The healing process was triggered since I found out I was an INTP, that I'm not abnormal, just socially retarded (though I'm not anymore).

But I'm still healing.

And I'm still angry. I can forgive, but I can never forget.
 

Hawkeye

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I don't think anyone likes being bullied although there are those who like being attacked both physically and mentally. I guess they differ because they chose to accept the 'pain'. They still have some control.



I live by this statement:

In the end it doesn't really matter what people think of you. You are who you are.
Unfortunately this statement still produces errors such as rapists, murderers, child abusers...


I am none of these! :p
 

Thread Killer

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Bullying is indeed quite unpleasant but often ignoring it via an utterly chilly air of indifference puts a stop to it. It's not trying to be unpleasant but revealing no emotion and putting on a front not too unlike the expression of my avatar, to give a better picture, does little to grant the bully the psychological gratification of feeling power through the victimization of another at their hands. This also requires compliance towards innocent favors asked of them if approached with that but never going out of your way.
 

Sparrow

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Work out, they'll leave you alone :P
 

alkeides

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I was bullied fairly early on during my early years of primary school, but transferred away.

8 years later I ended in the same school as some of my former bullies and well, they were probably more afraid of me at that point, although I don't think I really felt "fear". At this same school, there was a guy whom I beat at arm-wrestling who kept saying sarcastic remarks about me; at one point I got fed up and just kicked him in the changing room. It didn't turn into a fight, and he went off to another school but I had a very bad impression of the school after that.
 

shoeless

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i guess i'm lucky. i was bullied fairly minimally, probably thanks to the fact that i looked pissed off 90% of the time (it's not my fault i had serial killer eyebrows!)

but the few times i was taunted, because i looked like a dude or i was weird or they thought i was a satanist or whatever... yeah, that shit hurt.

i dunno about comparing it to rape, though. rape victims do, frequently, live with shame and insecurities and isolation after being raped, even if it is only just once. some have a hard time accepting it. it's not like you're raped and a week later it's all okay. but i suppose that's besides the point.

to some degree, bullying can make a person who they are. as long as they make it through alive, i do think it will shape you into a better person. (that's not to say bullying is a good thing. just... i don't know.)
 

vash22

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Haven't been bullied since middle school. Not sure if I changed in some way or they did. Or maybe was just that my lisp went away (shut up, I am a manly man). I'm not entirely sure how I dealt with it, but it worked. As with most developements I have had in my life, this one was fueled by disgust and anger. Mostly at myself and the bullies. There are generally three methods kids have when dealing with bullies.
1. They sit there and take it.
2. They follow the example of all those stupid stupid movies and stand up to the bully. Most of the time they get beaten up.
3. Putting forth effort to ignore the bully and, here's the best part, pretty much announcing to the bully that you are ignoring them.
None of these work. What I found works is to know that you're better than them (95% off the time you are), and if they start something instantly cut them off with a harsh tone and a "screw off and stop bothering me" attitude. It can't be an act though. You have to truly have self confidence. People who are bullied will never break free unless they find that thing that will give them the self-confidence to stop taking all of that abuse. I just happened to find mine in righteous anger and disgust. I guess once you get pushed past a certain point by the bullies you either shoot yourself, shoot up the school, or grow stronger.
Oh, and for that 5% that I believe superior to me, I befriended. They obviously have something to offer, something I could learn from them. So far all of those guys are not so much bullies as egotistical jerks. Not quite as bad, though still childish & annoying. And that 95% who I believed to be scum either knocked someone up in highschool, got kicked out of highschool, or got addicted to meth and probably died. Looks like I was right in my judgements.
 

vash22

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Haven't been bullied since middle school. Not sure if I changed in some way or they did. Or maybe was just that my lisp went away (shut up, I am a manly man). As with most developements I have had in my life, this one was fueled by disgust and anger. Mostly at myself and the bullies. There are generally three methods kids have when dealing with bullies.
1. They sit there and take it. I have no respect for them because of patheticness.
2. They follow the example of all those stupid stupid movies and stand up to the bully. Most of the time they get beaten up. Stupidity, not bravery. These guys expect it to actually work, bravery is not expecting it to work but doing it anyway out of pride.
3. Putting forth effort to ignore the bully and, here's the best part, pretty much announcing to the bully that they are ignoring him. Little kid stupidity.
None of these work.

What I found works is to know that you're better than them (95% off the time you are), and if they start something instantly cut them off with a harsh tone and a "screw of and stop bothering me" attitude. It can't be an act though. You have to truly have self confidence. People who are bullied will never break free unless they find that thing that will give them the self-confidence to stop taking all of that abuse. I just happened to find mine in righteous anger and disgust. I guess once you get pushed past a certain point by the bullies you either shoot yourself, shoot up the school, or grow stronger.

Oh, and for that 5% that I believe superior to me, I befriended. They obviously have something to offer, something I could learn from them. So far all of those guys are not so much bullies as egotistical jerks. Not quite as bad, though still childish & annoying. And that 95% who I believed to be scum either knocked someone up in highschool, got kicked out of highschool, or got addicted to meth and probably died. Looks like I was right in my judgements.
 

Hawkeye

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i guess i'm lucky. i was bullied fairly minimally, probably thanks to the fact that i looked pissed off 90% of the time (it's not my fault i had serial killer eyebrows!)
This tickled me somewhat :D




I wouldn't say I was bullied at school as such. I only really got stick when I spoke and was often regarded as a smartarse. I used to get really offended about what people thought of me. I took it to heart and I was incredibly soft. I was also quite a chubby kid and so I was mocked for this too...

I do remember one incident that got physical (not the kinky kind either). I was in the changing rooms getting ready for my sports lesson. All of a sudden the bully of my year group comes up to me and tells me that I'm in his spot... He asks me to move and I refused. This annoyed him somewhat and arroused some "Oooohs" from the kids near me.

The next thing he does is picks up one of my shoes and smacks me on my back pretty god damn hard. I didn't react and instead continued to get changed. So he did it again and again. Realising that I wasn't budging he went back to where he usually got changed and kept staring at me.

I occasionally glanced back to see if he was still staring at me. He was ^^

Then he blurts out "will you stop looking at me!?". I just calmly said "Well if you stopped staring at me you wouldn't know if I was looking at you or not and so you should have nothing to worry about." More "Ooooohs" from the crowd and then they all stared at him. He crumbled under the pressure. It was an odd experience because more people started to talk to me then and the bully's power seemed to disappear. I think people thought that if I could do that then they could.


I wish I could revisit those moments as how I am now.

Apparently one of the good points about me now (according to one of my workmates who happened to get incredibly drunk one time) is that I am me. I act how I act and don't care what people will or do say about me.

I'm not sure when I became this way although I think that that incident in the changing rooms could be a starting point.
 

Cognisant

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In my latter years of high school I just snapped one day and attacked one of my bullies, the Australian equivalent of a jock with half a dozen of his mates mere feet away, and it took all of them to stop me.
If they weren't there...
I'm ashamed of what happened, to this day in fact; I gave in to the anger.

On the upside I was never bothered again.
 

snowqueen

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[snowqueen hugs Lyra] Be careful your fury doesn't eat you alive, little one.

I was bullied throughout most of my school days. I was subjected to some really vicious and nasty attacks but mostly it was the drip drip drip of constant whispering, looks and snide comments and being shunned not very subtly. I had my pigtails dipped in ink so it stained my back and of course I got beaten at home for it later. I had my pigtails tied to the back of my chair so that when I stood up to answer a question I nearly broke my neck. The sixth formers made me learn pages and pages of stuff to punish me but I had an eidetic memory so it just infuriated them more. And then suddenly the most popular girl in my year became my best friend and it all stopped.

I am hypersensitive to any form of bullying behaviour now and won't tolerate it towards me or others.
 

snowqueen

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Work out, they'll leave you alone :P
That doesn't work so well for girls. Instead I developed a razor sharp tongue. I can still cut someone dead with a sentence but I try not to - I prefer to be kind because I notice my heart die a little every time I am nasty.
 

Words

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Nope. Never been bullied as much I'd love to be. It might be naive for me to say this but I envy those unfortunate experiences of yours. Hm, the challenge in that would at least spark some interest in me...(*facepalm*).

I could relate to this "Asian Loner Guy at the corner". Race was indeed my difficulty but even that was fairly easy to climb. I've only met the good sides of the world...the friendly school.

Though we seek conflict we try our best to stay away from it. uh(flashback)...I actually remember being the bully. I was bullying a girl 2 years younger than me. Even now, she still believe i'm "evil"...or maybe not.
 

Hawkeye

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Nope. Never been bullied as much I'd love to be. It might be naive for me to say this but I envy those unfortunate experiences of yours. Hm, the challenge in that would at least spark some interest in me...(*facepalm*).

I could relate to this "Asian Loner Guy at the corner". Race was indeed my difficulty but even that was fairly easy to climb. I've only met the good sides of the world...the friendly school.

Though we seek conflict we try our best to stay away from it. uh(flashback)...I actually remember being the bully. I was bullying a girl 2 years younger than me. Even now, she still believe i'm "evil"...or maybe not.

Try acting like a clown instead. I once allowed my friends to tie me up in the middle of the yard with all their coats and bags. They put my hood over my face and sent me over to where the bullies hung around (by my request). I couldn't see a damn thing and I was being pushed left right and centre. Things started to get a little rougher and so I tried to run away.

What I ended up doing was running in a huge circle straight back into them. I got some bruises that day I'll tell you! I did however make some people laugh and actually made some friends in the process because they believed the bullies had tied me up. :D
 

aracaris

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When I was a child I did get bullied a lot. It never reached the violent heights that some bullying does, but I was ostracized, and spat on very frequently. At one point I figured out a few ways to get kids to stop.

a: Get adults to intervene. This can work, but only if the adults handle the situation right, if they don't then this approach could end up doing very little or even backfiring. Sometimes multiple interventions are necessary, or increasingly severe consequences, some bullies can be pretty persistent.

or
b: A show of physical force. With one kid, all I had to do was kick him in the shins once, and from then on he was surprisingly nice to me. I imagine there's some schools where this behavior could lead to both parties getting in quite a bit of trouble though. All I ended up having to do was explain myself to the principle.

As I grew up, I found that ignoring them will often result in them losing interest, and sometimes doing something to highlight their stupidity works, just depends on the individual and circumstances. But some people you really really do have to stand up to.
 

intuitivet

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Sadly, ignoring them does work to a point (although it can make them frustrated and angry with you).
Another way is to punch them. I did this once and the girl ended up being my best friend for a few years (well, I punched her ALOT in one go, I had to see her cry).

I was bullied my whole life really (I was a geeky, chubby kid and that isn't acceptable apparently). Once I grew to my intimidating height (5'9'' at the age of 13 is pretty scarey for most people) and lost weight people relented a bit. Now no one bullies me as I have a good circle of friends, can cut into people with words and ooze confidence whenever I'm alone (it's not real, but if you can get it to work people respect you immediately).
Then again I agree bullying isn't good. I got an eating disorder and tried to be someone I'm not to fit in.
 

Beat Mango

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Complete powerlessness is quite horrid. The impossibility of conceiving of a simultaneously powerless and viable existence is the main reason I believe that life is fundamentally will to power. I hate that we have to play the game, but the only way to beat a bully is by increasing your power. In whatever form, whether you hold a sharp tongue (threat of embarrassment), aggressiveness (threat of harm), support of a larger network (threat of punishment) etc, your power is your most valuable asset.
 

Cavallier

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Complete powerlessness is quite horrid.
I don't hate bullies. Well, I don't hate them anymore. As a kid I did but as an adult looking back it was the powerlessness of others and myself that I hated. I absolutely refused to be powerless. I haven't been bullied much myself but I have gotten in fights with bullies because they bullied somebody else. Again, in retrospect I was more pissed off with the one being bullied than the bully. What the hell is wrong with them that they won't stand up for themselves. Weakness.

Now I have a distaste for power games. Like Mango, I see no point in them. Some people need and/or thrive in power politics but I don't want to play.
 

intuitivet

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Oh! I'm also friends with a guy who used to bully people, he's a very nice person, very polite and kind :) I think some bullies are just messing around and get taken seriously.
 

echoplex

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My theory is that bullies themselves feel powerless in social settings outside of those in which they bully -- which is why they bully, to regain a sense of power otherwise missing.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't beat their ass if necessary, though. It just means doing so will be all the more awkward, because you can't just call them evil and be done with it.
 

Words

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^ The reason why I personally bullied is annoyance of weakness and hindrance. I would've also bully those who falsely ruin my image.

This was during childhood. I joined throwing rocks at the mistreated. I spontaneously slap those who I hated. I poked the eye(it bled) of my elder cousin who I believed did me wrong. (or was it a knife?) No thought for the consequences of my actions. I simply did them out of personal belief and hate.
 

ashitaria

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^ The reason why I personally bullied is annoyance of weakness and hindrance. I would've also bully those who falsely ruin my image.

This was during childhood. I joined throwing rocks at the mistreated. I spontaneously slap those who I hated. I poked the eye(it bled) of my elder cousin who I believed did me wrong. (or was it a knife?) No thought for the consequences of my actions. I simply did them out of personal belief and hate.
...

You traitor!
 

transformers

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Bullying is truly one of the worst things that can happen to a person IMO, especially if it goes on for years. It can completely fuck with your sense of who you are and what you're worth. It's cruel.
 

yes

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I don't like bullies either, but I was never bullied. I either convinced the bullies of doing something else or I'd bully the bullies. I've got a big mouth and back then I was merciless with it. Then, to me if you didn't deserve pure kindness you were less then litter. So when ever I saw "bullying" I either talked the bully out it or humiliated them.
I'm not proud of it and sometimes I even regret it... One should be smart enough to deflate conflict without violence. But with my big mouth I once made a bully cry. (Sorry bully boy) But I can honestly say, because sometimes the bullies I'd choose to talk down were friendly acquaintances... Bullies, really do bully out of an insecurity.
Normal people wouldn't act like that. You can befriend a bully. Since from your other posts you don't seem to be a Christian I'll quote Alberto Einstein, "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Even in my adult life when ever I see a grown up "bully" in action at the store, in the mall, at mcdonalds.., Some person whos stressful life causes them to need to feel superior so they don't feel like a total loser with everyone they'll try to take out there inadequacies on whom they can by making them feel inferior, I always think that there is a way to stop the incident before it goes as far as some person using another for a verbal punching bag.
So there's no easy fix for anything, so the simplest advice I can give would be to not show fear. Try not to look uncomfortable. It does show and someone will prey on someone who looks like a pushover. But of course always be loving. :) Life isn't high school.
 

aracaris

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Now I have a distaste for power games. Like Mango, I see no point in them. Some people need and/or thrive in power politics but I don't want to play.
Yes, I feel the same way about them (power games), it's one of the nastier things about the animal that is homo sapiens sapiens that we share with our ape relatives. I think people that thrive on power games do so perhaps in the same way that adrenaline junkies thrive on thrill-seeking, but in modern human society power games really are needless (and potentially incredibly annoying) distractions. Why be involved in power plays when I could be doing something that's actually productive or doing something fun? The people whom enjoy power games should find other people whom are into that sort of thing, and leave the rest of us out of it.
 

Words

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Power games? There is no escape. You will be affected as you are part of society and part of the system. In order to truly change things for the better, you must first understand and accept the reality of this less idealistic system. From there, important problems such as the global warming can be beneficially addressed. The cause to why you have goals is your problem. Still, your extra "hands" would be wasted. Productivity is the fruit of power.
 

intuitivet

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I'm not liking the sweeping generalisations of this thread. Why do you hate 'bullies'? You have no right to hate them all, you haven't met or talked to them. Isn't it easier to stop resenting them and forgive them? I'm sure they have their reasons.
(Sorry if this winds people up, I make my friend angry by saying that victims should accept some responsibility for what they suffer in almost all circumstances).
 

Hawkeye

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I'm not liking the sweeping generalisations of this thread. Why do you hate 'bullies'? You have no right to hate them all, you haven't met or talked to them. Isn't it easier to stop resenting them and forgive them? I'm sure they have their reasons.
(Sorry if this winds people up, I make my friend angry by saying that victims should accept some responsibility for what they suffer in almost all circumstances).
I think a person has a right to hate someone who is causing them stress and pain to intolerable levels. I mean if you're going to talk about people's rights. Who has the right to make someone suffer so much?
 

Words

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^ Think of hunger=bully. If your too "weak", lazy in this case, to find meat, then your not worth it. But, obviously, there are levels to everything. (Too weak = not good. Too forceful = not good.)

I'm not siding with the bullies though. Their own problem should be dealt within their own personal self, not taken out on someone else.
 

intuitivet

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^ Think of hunger=bully. If your too "weak", lazy in this case, to find meat, then your not worth it. But, obviously, there are levels to everything. (Too weak = not good. Too forceful = not good.)

I'm not siding with the bullies though. Their own problem should be dealt within their own personal self, not taken out on someone else.
Agreed. I'm not siding with bullies, but I'm trying to have an objective view that they are just people and hating them does nothing to solve the issue.
 

wadlez

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Im not saying this just to be controversial, but I think that everyone here would bully if they were in the same position as bulliers are. I know I do it, Im just honest enough to admit it
 

Hawkeye

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Im not saying this just to be controversial, but I think that everyone here would bully if they were in the same position as bulliers are. I know I do it, Im just honest enough to admit it
A few years ago I would have agreed with you. However, as I am now... No. I'm no longer tempted by power.
 

Trebuchet

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In the end, witty comebacks, clever insults and a wide range of vocabulary means nothing if everyone and everything is against you.
I have to say, I side with Ashitaria on this. I was badly bullied, and it affects some people, like me, for decades. Others are not so bothered by it and don't see the big deal, of course, but for those who are genuinely hurt, it is devastating. We decided it wouldn't happen to our daughter, and we have worked with her to identify bullying behaviors, and tried to help her come up with ways to cope with them. She got bullied in kindergarden last week, right before school, so we got her to go over and confront him. He hid his head so she asked for help from his teacher, who took care of it swiftly. She cried afterward for a while in reaction, but after school she was bragging all day about how she stood up to a bully and won.

She is in a different situation from the one I experienced. I was told a lot of lies: they are just jealous, they are cowards, you shouldn't show any reaction because they just want a rise out of you, don't take it personally. In other words, it was my fault they were bullying, because I let it bother me. What BS. I've done some research since becoming a parent, and it turns out that bullies often have very high self-esteem, lots of charisma, and adults tend to like them and think they could do no wrong. By the time they reach adulthood, and in many cases stop bullying, they only remember "joking around" with other kids and don't comprehend that they hurt someone, maybe for life.

However, bullying is not going to go away. It happens in preschool; it happens in middle school; it happens in jobs and between neighbors. It can be physical or so subtle it can hardly be detected. Therefore, finding strategies for coping with it is absolutely crucial. And unfortunately, there is no one trick that will always work. It is a lifelong process to learn how to identify and handle it.

I don't think bullying is the worst thing a person can do. There are lots of bad things a person can do, even short of murder and arson. But it is certainly bad, and anyone who was recently, frequently, and brutally bullied should feel very angry about it. That's healthier than turning it inwards and deciding it is one's own fault to have been wronged, which was what I was encouraged to feel. Eventually, the anger fades, but I don't think there is anything wrong with a person who takes a long time to get over it.

I can't agree with wadlez. Some people might bully, given a chance, but that was never an urge of mine, even when I was a kid.
 

Chimera

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I've never had a problem dealing with bullies. Ever. I got the tools to deal with it early on at home, since my older sisters liked to pick on me a lot. By the time I was in middle school, I was best friends with my sisters, and could dismantle any bullying I was faced with.

Some senior in one of my classes thought he could pick on me last semester. Apparently he didn't like my "cool attitude" (I just didn't want anything to do with most of the people in the class, including him), and he told me flat out that he was going to piss me off. He was all verbal (though one time he tried to mess with one of my projects), and I replied that there was nothing a boy like him could do to piss me off. I ignored him the rest of the class, he got bored, I assumed he moved on.
Next morning I walk into school and he's waiting near the entrance with a group of his friends. He calls something like "Hey, there's the girl I told you about", and at this point I'm rolling my eyes because the whole situation was just ridiculous. He walks up next to me and his buddies follow along, each of them making their own stupid remarks.
They followed me all the way to my first class (Yeah, I may talk tough, but I'm not stupid enough to confront a group of volatile guys older than me when there isn't somewhere safe nearby). Before we reached the door, I turned and looked straight at the leader, the guy who originally decided to try to piss me off. Well, "looked" is an understatement. It was a half incredulous, half condescending glare.
Anyway, I looked at him and said "You're so pathetic you have to get your friends to help you piss off one girl? I told you yesterday, there's nothing a kid like you can do to piss me off, and six of you aren't any more intimidating. I'm done entertaining you, understand? Now leave me alone."
Turned on my heel, and went into class.
The kid never bothered me again. I make sure to smile at him whenever we pass by in the hallway though. :p
 

ashitaria

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I'm not telling you, stalker! :P
I come back from a long break from INTP forum...
this is what I see:

I can say fairly that I am disgusted with all of you.

Answers will be in bold.

Im not saying this just to be controversial, but I think that everyone here would bully if they were in the same position as bulliers are. I know I do it, Im just honest enough to admit it

By saying this, you have established in my heart that you are a cruel person. Bullies bully not because of their low self-esteem, poor environments or the kind of BS that bullies make up as excuses for themselves. They bully because they think they have the right to push people around and because they think that it's fun. Like Trebuchet says, the statistics are against you.
Agreed. I'm not siding with bullies, but I'm trying to have an objective view that they are just people and hating them does nothing to solve the issue.

Yes, they are just people. But they are sick cruel people who do not respect the equality of everyone. Hating may not solve the issue, but I think strict punishment and guide-lines will.
^ Think of hunger=bully. If your too "weak", lazy in this case, to find meat, then your not worth it. But, obviously, there are levels to everything. (Too weak = not good. Too forceful = not good.)

I'm not siding with the bullies though. Their own problem should be dealt within their own personal self, not taken out on someone else.

I don't understand how this makes bullying an acceptable behavior. Many people bullied are not lazy, let alone weak. They are different. That is all.

Keep in mind that I was not just bullied by one person. I was bullied by a class-room size of people. In this case, I definitely was not weak to allow myself to be bullied, especially since I had stood up to the bullies when things got physical- in even later years, I started to beat them up out of vengeance.

If they have their own problems, fine. But if they take it out on other people, it is my firm belief that they should be severely punished. After all, how is it moral for a person undergoing financial stress to kill an innocent bystander?
I'm not liking the sweeping generalisations of this thread. Why do you hate 'bullies'? You have no right to hate them all, you haven't met or talked to them. Isn't it easier to stop resenting them and forgive them? I'm sure they have their reasons.
(Sorry if this winds people up, I make my friend angry by saying that victims should accept some responsibility for what they suffer in almost all circumstances).

Okay, first thing first, you make me sick. First of all, what right do you have to tell me not to hate all bullies? Did you go through bullying? Do you know how it feels? Do you even know a bully who has bullied you?

Second of all, in what way are the victims to blame? Victims have just as much right as criminals to do whatever the fuck they want. If they want to wear an offensive T-shirt, so be it. If they want to wear a skimpy outfit, so be it. If the criminal assaults them, it is the criminal's fault.

Same thing with bullying. You, who clearly are ignorant about the issue of bullying, do whatever the fuck you want. No one bullies you because you do whatever the fuck you want, so you don't know what's it like to be hated for doing whatever the fuck you want. So if someone comes up and starts bullying you because he hates what you do, is it his fault or your fault?
 

Fukyo

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I can say fairly that I am disgusted with all of you.

What is the point of this thread?

For people to talk about their personal accounts of bullying and how they hated it or an objective discussion of the effects bullying can have?

If it's objective, then you need to take a step from your personal opinion.
Are all opposing responses and disagreements going to be met with disdain, disgust and hate? Too strong words, I'd say.
 

Chimera

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Wow, Ash.
Okay, first off, I don't claim to fully understand the situation you were put in. It sounds like it was a very traumatic experience, and I give my condolences that you had to go through it.

That being said, I have to sympathize with bullies as well as the victims. It is my firm belief that everyone who bullies other people either a) has been through something "traumatic" themselves, b) for some reason has an instinct to defend themselves by being on the offensive constantly, or c) has some other circumstance I hadn't thought of.
In the case of the bullies being the result of a traumatic experience, I don't blame them because I'm ignorant to their past situation.
As for having the instinct to defend by offense, I'm sure there is some reason I don't know about, such as they were raised that way, or it's their natural defense mechanism due to how their brain is wired and they haven't grown out of it yet.
And for other reasons...well, I haven't thought of them yet.

All these things are reasons, NOT excuses. I am not excusing the bullies for what they do; they should have to answer for every life they've wrecked with their carelessness. But the world isn't fair that way.
The way I see it, I can't stop them from being bullies. Getting angry with them because of how they are (or who they are) is pointless and solves nothing. I sympathize with both parties involved in bullying. The best thing I can do is be sure of myself, stand my ground when bullied myself, and help out whenever I see someone being victimized. But I can't preach equality and fairness when I don't take a step back to consider what possible factors caused the bully to act in the first place. I try my hardest not to be a hypocrit.

And of course I'm not telling you how to view bullying, lol. Clearly you've been through a lot that has left you bitter about bullies, and I'm not saying you're wrong in feeling the way you do.
 

ashitaria

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I'm not telling you, stalker! :P
What is the point of this thread?

For people to talk about their personal accounts of bullying and how they hated it or an objective discussion of the effects bullying can have?

If it's objective, then you need to take a step from your personal opinion.
Are all opposing responses and disagreements going to be met with disdain, disgust and hate? Too strong words, I'd say.
I am not disgusted because of their opposing views. I am disgusted at the reasons they use to justify bullying. Like Trebuchet (not Chimera, my bad) said, most of the time, bullying done by people that think that it is fun.

Not because they have their own problems.

I find no reason to sympathize with bullies, as most bullies simply bully out of fun or boredom, not because of their traumatic experiences with survival of the fittest crap.

As for the case with bullies made that way because of traumatic experiences, my fury at them is greatly reduced, but I still can't bring myself to excuse them for their behavior.

A murder is a murder, no matter how it is done.

After all, not hating a bully is not hating a murderer. Murderers are who they are, yet that doesn't stop us from putting them in jail doesn't it? Yet we don't accept them for who they are and let them murder don't we?
 

Fukyo

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After all, not hating a bully is not hating a murderer. Murderers are who they are, yet that doesn't stop us from putting them in jail doesn't it? Yet we don't accept them for who they are and let them murder don't we?
I find this a very loaded claim, and would like to see it thoroughly explained. :cat:

In addition:

How is bullying defined?
Where is the line between playful teasing and bullying that can leave real psychological consequences?
What makes bullying comparable to murder, and even previously mentioned rape?
Why is the hate necessary and what is it's purpose?
Do people really hate murderers, aside from the personally afflicted individuals?
 

ashitaria

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I'm not telling you, stalker! :P
I find this a very loaded claim, and would like to see it thoroughly explained. :cat:
This is not a claim. This is a comparison, a metaphor. I am comparing bullies to murderers.

In addition:

How is bullying defined?

When there is malice, cruelty, exclusion, humiliation involved. When someone is picked on for something not a fault of their own.

Where is the line between playful teasing and bullying that can leave real psychological consequences?

When it leaves the victim questioning himself/herself, when feelings of depression start to manifest, when feelings of inadequacy start to develop along with the sense of loneliness. Also when playful teasing becomes a regular thing, not just once a week or a day, until it crosses the line to taunting. Quite comparable to rape, not so to murder yet is in my opinion as bad.

Why is the hate necessary and what is it's purpose?

The hate is not necessary and the purpose is not there, but like how a war can fill you with hate, so can bullying. There is no purpose nor necessity to hate- it is something that I cannot control. If I could, I would have left behind long ago.

Do people really hate murderers, aside from the personally afflicted individuals?

I would say most people don't care, unless they are directly involved. Then I can say easily that they will care- they just lost a loved one.
Will this answer your questions?
 

Hawkeye

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Do people really hate murderers, aside from the personally afflicted individuals?
A father who killed his 2-year-old son by suffocating him inside a bin has been jailed; courts heard he and his wife abused the boy constantly, putting him in an oven and turning it on, and placing him in a washing machine.


Courts heard that the Tokyo couple, both 35, routinely abused their 2-year-old son.
The father on at least one occasion placed the boy in the oven and turned it on “because he was noisy”; on another occasion he put the child in a washing machine.


The child’s mother was no better; the court heard that she fed the infant cigarette butts “in order to see how intelligent he was,” and participated in or instigated much of the abuse.


The court was also shown communications between the couple in which they referred to their child using language normally reserved for animals.
They were then shown recordings the defendant had himself taken showing the boy tied to a bed and screaming, with judges reportedly grimacing and casting a cold gaze upon him. CCTV footage showed the parents kicking the infant in the stomach when he tried to exit an elevator.
The couple finally put their son in a rubbish bin, closed the lid, put the bin inside a plastic bag and tied the whole thing shut with rubber cord, leaving him in this state on their balcony and in their living room until the evening.
The boy asphyxiated during this ordeal.

The father’s defence countered that “he thought the boy would come out of the rubbish bin on his own if he wanted to, and didn’t realise he would die.” The prosecution called this explanation “unbelievable.” The pair initially told police that he had “climbed into the bin and died.”

In court, the father was questioned on what he thought would happen to his son whilst trapped in the bin, responding “I thought he’d probably just sleep until morning… I didn’t think it was dangerous.”

The mother faces identical charges but is yet to be sentenced; her defence contends “she was influenced” whilst the father’s defence maintains that she was the primary instigator of the abuse.

The prosecution sought a 12 year prison sentence for the father on a variety of charges relating to the lethal confinement, saying “the sorrows of Yui-chan were unfathomable.”

Judges apparently felt this too harsh and passed down a sentence of 11 years, acknowledging his “deep regret.”
The lay judges (quasi-jurors) seemed unimpressed by the verdict they delivered:
“It was very hard looking at that little body. 12 years for that – personally I think they should have gone further.”
“At first I thought it would be 15-18 years.”
“5 years? 10 years? 13 years? How can we amateurs know the difference? It’s hard to grasp in only 4 days.”
“I hope this sends a signal about this kind of abuse.”
Quite frankly, these two should have been shot on sight.
 

Fukyo

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ashitaria said:
This is not a claim. This is a comparison, a metaphor. I am comparing bullies to murderers.
The way it was phrased, it certainly looked like a claim.

"After all, not hating a bully is not hating a murderer."

However in the light of the severity of bullying being varied, I'm inclined to consider it not comparable to rape of murder.

Thanks for answering.
 

ashitaria

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I'm not telling you, stalker! :P
The way it was phrased, it certainly looked like a claim.

"After all, not hating a bully is not hating a murderer."

However in the light of the severity of bullying being varied, I'm inclined to consider it not comparable to rape of murder.

Thanks for answering.
Thank you for a weak four sentence counter-argument to a 5-6 paragraph argument. You certainly made it feel worth it.

EDIT: Wait, I'm not done yet. To further support my "claim", here.

Similarities between bullies and murderers- Both cause psychological damage be it directly or indirectly, both can cause physical harm, both land blows of helplessness, both are repulsive acts, both are done either by (usually unrighteous) anger, irritation, boredom or out of fun.

I hope you will actually take the time to structure a decent argument and rational explanation why you do not agree with me, not your previous weak and poor argument.
 

Fukyo

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Thank you for a weak four sentence counter-argument to a 5-6 paragraph argument. You certainly made it feel worth it.
I was simply curious as to your reasoning, not engaging you in an argument.

I don't participate in arguments based on personal sentiments and opinions, as the possibility of biases hinders proper discussion.

As to the comparison, you'll notice I spoke of bullying in general terms, including the word varied, allowing for the uniqueness of individual cases.
 
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Hawkeye

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Until you experience bullying to the level where it affects your mental health I suggest people stop simplifying it to mere teasing and siding with the bully. You are viewing the subject from a very narrow perspective. Bullies get kicks out of toturing others. It allows them to gain respect from their friends and dominate another person. To them it is a win win scenario.
 

Fukyo

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Until you experience bullying to the level where it affects your mental health I suggest people stop simplifying it to mere teasing and siding with the bully. You are viewing the subject from a very narrow perspective. Bullies get kicks out of toturing others. It allows them to gain respect from their friends and dominate another person. To them it is a win win scenario.
I think assuming that the simplification of the pain one experiences occurring and not knowing what's it like to be bullied is not accurate in all instances. There are different cases of bullying, the lighter ones and the more damaging ones. The way a person will be affected will also be distinct based on circumstances. That's why I think not all cases of bullying could be classified in terms of the metaphor of a life being ended. No one is defending the bullies, just exploring other possibilities, and no one's pain is being discarded.
 

ashitaria

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I'm not telling you, stalker! :P
I think assuming that the simplification of the pain one experiences occurring and not knowing what's it like to be bullied is not accurate in all instances. There are different cases of bullying, the lighter ones and the more damaging ones. The way a person will be affected will also be distinct based on circumstances. That's why I think not all cases of bullying could be classified in terms of the metaphor of a life being ended. No one is defending the bullies, just exploring other possibilities, and no one's pain is being discarded.
Okay, let me take my precious time to point out- there is no such thing as lighter case of bullying. All bullying is harmful, like murders.

If there were something I was to compare "light bullying" to, it would be either

1) Accidental murders- Car accidents, train wrecks, murders without a single motive of malice, delight or pleasure.
2) Murders out of loss of control- Due to a temper, murder was not intended. In this case, the victim actually did something.
3) Rape due to intoxication and loss of control- In this case, the victim actually did something i.e drink and it was not intended.

Other than that, I find no excuse for any type of bullying.

Also, let it be known that I wouldn't have been so furious had it not been that people were bragging about how they bullied other people. I am disgusted that I see people actually proud of bullying other people, if I had not seen such posts, I doubt I'd be posting such harsh words.

What infuriates me further is that the victims are being blamed for being "weak" and that it is the victim's fault. Nothing has infuriated me more in my entire life, it's as if someone just set me on fire.
 

Trebuchet

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That being said, I have to sympathize with bullies as well as the victims. It is my firm belief that everyone who bullies other people either a) has been through something "traumatic" themselves, b) for some reason has an instinct to defend themselves by being on the offensive constantly, or c) has some other circumstance I hadn't thought of.


Not according to Joel Haber, the author of Bullyproof Your Child for Life. He's devoted his life to studying and stopping bullying, and the trauma theory doesn't hold up.​
 

wadlez

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The actual cause for bullying is not because a person is sick or sadistic, Everyone can potentially be a bully and its due to groups, group processes, the self concept and other factors (see social psychology).
Personally when I bully people I dont think "im going to bully that guy" thats gay, I simply make hilarious jokes at someones expense. Later on reflection I'll see that I have bullied someone and have made them feel really bad. The people who get bullied either set themselves up for jokes and act like dickheads (most occasions), rival the individual bullying them in some way and need to be kept down (second most) or are a weak target that you can safely pick on (least). You dont conciously think this when you do it though, no one does, if people did they would have to be sociopaths. You do it, it feels right and you actually want to do it and think what your doing is justified.

I have been bullied really badly so know what it is like on both ends, but I think bullying exists all the time everywhere, social exclusion is bullying on some level. Its just how humans are and you have to accept it.
 

intuitivet

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I can help but think people are not reading my posts properly...
I'm not saying the victim is solely to blame, I'm saying it is usually shared blame. Such as, the bully has the choice to bully, the victim (usually) can stop them by standing up to them or asking others for help.
In my first post I said I had been bullied for alot of my life (people seem to have skipped that one for some reason). I'm just looking at this objectively, that bullies are people with problems and for everyone to go against them is unfair. Yes, they should be punished for harming others, but hating them gets you nowhere (I'll quote La Haine here: "Hate breeds hate"). It's better to do something about it, rather than doing nothing and allowing them to continue.
Here, I'll also reference another post I made about having stood up to a bully and becoming friends with them (I stopped them from bullying anyone else, so standing up to a bully can help everyone).
Sure, if the bully is trying to kill you or maim you, that's different. That's assault and the police should be involved. General pushing, tripping up and teasing happens to most people at some point in their lives and pretty much everyone recovers afterwards (yes, it can take a few years to get your self esteem back up and trust people again, but it can be done. Letting the bully 'win' by aloowing them to ruin your life is partially your fault as a victim, of course you shouldn't be punished, but you should do somethign about it).
 
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