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Black Rose

Black Rose

An unbreakable bond 37 From with mama
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  • Hawkeye
    ^^

    My O'Reilly post was to point out how vague the topic had become. Mysticism was creeping in and the topic was becoming increasingly moot.
    Proper order of ascension is generally: Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana, Samadhi; the last being the end result/experience. Hallucinogens help.
    Cherry Cola
    Video was pretty interesting. Like the guy in it, I too believe we are just past the apex of an historical era marked by rationalism, intellectual curiosity reduced to rule bound hairsplitting, paradoxes being funny little curious inescapable facts of life and not hints at basic errors in our systematic worldview. Academic art being in a shity state, the essence of art locked up in an ivory tower so high no one will ever reach the top.

    I'm sure he's also right in stating that he believes this left brain dominated zeitgeist is heading towards decline. I think it's inevitable, romanticism will see a rise soon, as a counter reaction to its predecessor. Quite like the romanticism of the 18th century following the industrial revolution, this digital revolution of ours has left many feeling alienated.
    I actually doubt the existence of intelligent life elsewhere other than within its own dimension. Ubiquitous throughout the universe, but unable to interact.
    Brontosaurie
    hi!

    i can't say what is error and what is deliberate, having a hard time understanding anything.

    if i had to compare to anyone i'd say it sounds like a nice version of own8ge.

    what made you post in marilyn vos savant forum?
    Cherry Cola
    Ah okay!

    Let's not go down the criteria route, ultimately it's about whether or not the picture speaks to you on an intuitive level or not. Uniqueness, cultural impact etc.. none of them are sufficient, it's why there's no criteria for good art that's ever withstood the test of time. By it's nature art is heuristic, as such it will not blend with absolutes. Trying to pinpoint anything is a bloody pain the arse, although Bronto did a pretty good job in this thread imo:

    http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=16818

    Basically art needs criteria but conceptually rejects criteria as its basis. Criteria are just tools like the brush and the tabula. They serve a practical purpose, the absence of criteria lets any fool be an artist, the vagueness of postmodern art as well its critics leaves the public confused on the matter.
    Cherry Cola
    The Gilchrist video seems interesting, I read about him on wikipedia and he deals with a subject id like to know more of, thus: I'd like to watch it. But it will have to wait for I must sleep ^^
    Cherry Cola
    As for contemporary art depicting people with an air of ancient nobility: I don't know of any, but I don't know a lot of contemporary painters at all.

    I see a lot of the same thing going in the fashion pictures that you find in women's magazines such as Elle though.

    I mean just look at those people.. the way they stare into the camera and break the fourth wall without hesitation. They are made out to have that archaic air about them, their essences perpetuated in time, as if though mere extension of ideals by necessity inherent in the very being of things, giving them them an air of elevation. Of course it's a sales trick, you're supposed to want to be those people, or at least mimic them by wearing the same clothes.
    Cherry Cola
    I typically work with "flat" backgrounds, that's another thing I like with the renaissance pictures I linked, it's all simple central perspective giving an illusion of 3d, which of my pictures have you seen? Did I post pictures on this site? As far as I recall my avatar and my doodles in the MS paint thread are all I've ever showcased :P

    The Dinotopia book is kinda cool.. but that's not really my thing. I mean the artistry is solid but its not very unique in anything but the blend of historical styles (realism and romanticism) and Dinosaurs. I'm more into the unique expressions I find in some artists.
    Cherry Cola
    My sense of humor is a patchwork of many things.. I couldn't say where I got it from specifically. I like weird, meta and brutal humor :P

    Furthermore, I hear you on the typology issues. The big thing for me was trying hard to keep it all connected to reality as I read more and more. What I did was aim specifically on the functions and how they connected to actual behavior, then eventually after having identified and seen the types in action irl I felt pretty comfortable with the system. Before all that and before I really knew much at all about MBTI I read through the original book about psychological types by the late Carl Jung, I think that served as a bit of an anchor, made it easier to where it all came from. I've bought his book The Red Book as well, he is a challenging but stimulating writer in his own right imo, bar the subject matter!

    I haven't really bothered with Keirsey though, what makes him better?

    Sorry for spam, original reply too long, had to split in three
    Cherry Cola
    Pierro Della Francesca is probably my favourite rennaisance painter. There's a peacefull stillness in his pictures. I think it's because of his compositions and the postures he selects for the characters in his images. At the same time he's often got that weird mix I tried to describe above going on:

    http://www.lib-art.com/imgpainting/1/1/15111-madonna-of-senigallia-piero-della-francesca.jpg

    http://www.lib-art.com/imgpainting/2/4/15042-polyptych-of-the-misericordia-piero-della-francesca.jpg

    Some of those pictures almost scare me if I look at them too long, but others such as this one (also by Fracesca) have a serenity about them, as if time moving slower within their frames:

    http://www.conservapedia.com/images/thumb/c/ca/Della_Francesca_Resurrection.jpg/533px-Della_Francesca_Resurrection.jpg
    Cherry Cola
    I've looked at a lot of paintings, in fact I have a bit of a collection of art books, but I haven't really studied any specific style.

    Leonardo's never appealed to me. Most of the stuff I like stem from the modernistic period. Lot's of interesting art was made around the turn of the 19th century; the post impressionists that followed quickly thereafter also have a lot of interesting painters among them.

    Some of the early renaissance art also resonates with me though, this picture for instance:

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8239/8507742524_b2a6bf70e5_k.jpg

    Bar all the symbolism and all the context, that picture is really powerful in the way that its got the nobility of an ancient race; the people look inhuman and uncanny, yet sublime and stellar: like a cold hard fact or something. I dunno.
    Hawkeye
    Yes and no.

    I see the universe as a place where I exist and I'm bound by laws that are also the cause of my existence.

    Who or what made these laws is irrelevant to me. I take them purely as a necessity for my existence. I don't require a consciousnesses to be behind it all as I'm quite content with my existence being nothing more than a spectacular accident.

    I am typing this at 4am with alcohol in my system however. ^^
    Cherry Cola
    What movie? :P

    As for me, I'd say around uh.. 21. I did the test when I was 15 and identified with the descriptions of the INFJ type (and the INTP for that matter, wasn't sure which I was), but I didn't read up on to the point where I got the functions down until somewhere around 21-22, so I didn't really get much a realization; rather, I got more of a "so this is what it's called..".
    r4ch3l
    Also: I'm gonna post some pictures of my sketching/though process on my profile now, maybe it will help others see how my brain works.

    ETA: shit, they're pdfs and I'm too lazy to convert. Here's some links --
    http://hellahoops.com/metaasmodeling1.pdf
    http://hellahoops.com/metaasmodeling2.pdf

    This is how I work when I'm reading something I get excited about. My brain just sort of explodes and I sketch then organize and connect with other (usually more grounded or formal) ideas later.
    r4ch3l
    I have two projects I am working on. One is not mine (my dad's) but I am helping to build it (FPGAs, intelligent NICs). The other is simple and has a high profit margin for a low-cost item that I believe I could sell a lot of if I implement my idea strategically. Will PM.

    I have considered other types. I am definitely INxx and seem very "P" (but as a child was far more serious, organized, and "J") and believe I am either INTP or INFP. I tested as INTP since high school but it's very possible I could be INFP or INTP with a weak dominant function (Ti is at 60-something% vs. I, N, & P at 80+%).

    I took a functions test and scored highest for Ni, then Ne. It suggested I was an INTJ and I lol'd because no fucking way. I think that INxP with weak Fi or weak Ti in comparison to the other functions summarizes my personality. Identify with the Ne function a lot and love ENFPs and ENTPs even though I am very much an introvert. But I collaborate better with INTJs (Ni -- Te).
    nexion
    My belief system is always changing.

    As to whether I think everyone should be nihilist... nah, I don't, and never really did. Though I may have said I did sometime.
    Hadoblado
    Hahaha I used to love that cartoon. I actually used to think they were referring to a different Tasmania, as the depiction is wildly inaccurate. The setting is more similar to Queensland, and Taz looks nothing like a devil XD
    Not really. I used to but the urge kind of died. I know I can get involved in something like an MMORPG, but I fear being caught up in it.

    Life as a hobo would be a rather secluded combination of freedom and self-reliance. The only expectations are those of oneself.
    Ummmm.... Well....

    My dad's a mechanic, my mom's disabled, my sister works at a dairy farm, and my brother's still in elementary school. I'd personally like to take things back 50-100 years and continue living as a hobo tbh.

    No one really shares the same values or purpose as I. I disown most of the living ones except my brother, sister, and grandma, really. My other grandmother was interesting. Claimed to have ESP, into Native American history, knew the woods, etc.
    PhoenixRising
    Hi there :)

    Yeah, I agree - it probably wouldn't be helpful to research the inverse type of one's self. All the 16 types have different characteristics. In theory, the closest type to a TiNe is a FeSi (same order of function pairs). Fe is a very different function from Ti though, so it's likely that two individuals of these types would be very different. Progress has been slow on the site, yes. But! that's because we've been writing/illustrating the book ^^

    Have you seen this post? http://cognitivetype.boards.net/thread/78/fe-ti-notes-on-psychology

    That's the most cohesive info on Fe we have so far. There's also the Ti profile: http://www.cognitivetype.com/profiles/ti.html

    If you have some specific questions pertaining to Fe and Ti, I'd be happy to answer them. Just hit me up!
    That was actually a completely different wild duck from like 3 years ago lmfao! Well, one of our egg layers did meet up with a raccoon though...

    Not collapse, but dollar flaccid for sure. Until ~December, probably, then it goes boom.
    Hmmmm......

    The duck died. One of them anyway. It was killed by a raccoon. I have no idea how you knew about the duck... And we're likely about to be at war with Syria within the next week. We're almost obligated by our foreign policy actions thus far (not that I'd support it, FYI). Oil, metals, and other commodity prices (grains, especially wheat) will increase.

    Also... Y U COLORADO!?!?!?! :twisteddevil: :beatyou:
    SpaceYeti
    I'm curious what your visions mean to me. In what way would they signify anything of objective value?
    Hadoblado
    It'll be great (if it happens). I look forward to a memory that works.

    But I don't bother using my attentive resources to speculate post-singularity potentials. Once the singularity happens those resources will be much less in demand. Until then, unless you're actively working towards the singularity, there is not much point to the anticipation. I figure the first and foremost goal is to get yourself on the list of people that will be receiving the upgrades.
    Hadoblado
    I either don't know the light, actively reject it, or you're talking about the singularity, in which case I'm a fan. It really depends on what you are calling the 'light'.

    Either which way, I excused myself from the thread once I was absolutely certain I had nothing to contribute. The vibe of the thread was an appreciation for the unknown, something that I have difficulty with. My modus operandi is to make the unknown known, I prefer to solve riddles rather than speak in them.
    nanook
    OSHO recommends dynamic meditation (dancing to exhaustion, then resting) because westerners are usually too far away from the calm self acceptance that would be recognized as a meditative state. unlike people who lived a slow paced country life in tibet or india. those may have been already seduced by the emptiness of their life, they may just have to sit down and meditation will automatically happen, meaning their egoic world will gradually disappear. nirvana means cessation (adyashanti explains ...). i'm about to tune into a session of his http://www.adyashanti.org/cafedharma/index.php?file=radio
    nanook
    i have looked at the thread but haven't read the whole exchange. there are of course techniques of achieving some specialized mental discipline (focus), i know nothing about them. when i think "meditation" i hear "i will just sit here and hope that i wake up from suffering, from the dream of separate self". in a nutshell this is all about self acceptance and it's not a technique, but a negotiation with your temper, much like get getting laid could be the result of seduction. as such it's highly relative to what's going on inside of you, in this phase of your life and the whole negotiation can't be limited to the act of sitting there with closed eyes, you have to be in the right state to begin with, so that sitting will even make authentic sense. and that's why it's kinda difficult to give you specific advice.
    nanook
    i have no idea what space jeti had in mind. perhaps he is thinking in dichotomy clichees. enfp are very chaotic and unconventional (see movie girl interrupted), ISFJ (both FiSe and SiFe, ISFJ and ISFj) are thought of as being rather protective of a familiar state. "don't make any noise!" Si is protective about itself, Fi can hold on to a state of Se. aux Fi in enfp has not much power to hold on, they tend to let go and go wild.
    nanook
    Ni afaik is not solid visualisation, like the cylons do on TV, but i think it's related to mapping processes in visual spacial intelligence type of way and this can sometimes solidify into a more concrete visualisation, still not like something you see in concrete fashion, but something you talk of in visual terms, using metaphors or illustrative language. everyone visualises in that sense, i think, Ni is one of the intelligences that informs this ability to visualize, intelligence about subjective process (Ni) should lead to visualisation of such, intelligence of subjective state (Si) should lead to visualisation of such, intelligence of objective state (Se) should lead to visualisation of just that (and i guess this would be images with colors and such), intelligence of objective process should lead to just that.... also, in a visually inclined mind, the perceptions work together often and create images that are influenced by all of these principles.
    Jennywocky
    hi,

    Well INTPs are good at understanding systems. I loved MBTI when I discovered it; it made sense to me. The first MBTI book I read (which is really a system built off MBTI) is Please Understand Me (David Kiersey) who is also an INTP. So it made sense to me.

    I'm not sure what you mean by the second question, can you clarify?

    Yes, I think gender influences how you present, type-wise. ENFP females vs males in western culture might look a little different. And how you grow up (if you are isolated, for example) can change how ENFP you look.
    BigApplePi
    Hi Animekitty. Now I recall saying that. I claim religion is a tremendous force within those practicing it. Here's a summary.

    Religion presents a story. Because it's a story it can not only be recognized within, but shared outside with others*. People of religion use this sharing as a foundation for socialization. It holds people together to do other things using the story as common ground. Now people differ in their reasoning ability. That doesn't matter. People will hold to the story because of the benefits of socialization which are many. They will not question the story because "reason" tells them it's not worth giving up friends. Those who do not care for socialization (like many INTPs) though are willing to examine the story more closely. Using logic to examine the story is what I've seen on this forum. The common man isn't interested in that. They accept the story as long as they receive the social benefits.

    *It's like an initiation for joining a club.
    BigApplePi
    Hi Animekitty. I completely lost ya. I've been away so I don't know the topic to which you're referring. On inexperience: If I am so, I would like to practice admitting that if I am interested in replying.
    Hadoblado
    For you, I think INTP isn't a terrible descriptor. Regardless of your actual MBTI, from what I've seen, you exhibit a lot of the vital characteristics of one. You are intelligent, think very conceptually, have less than stellar social skills, care more about the truth than social convention or appropriateness, like complex systems and technology etc.

    My tiff with wonka was not so much to do with his conclusion, but with how he arrived at it. When alternatives are presented, one should explore them, rather than deplore them. He wasn't willing to give much evidence to back up his claim, and wasn't willing to entertain alternatives. I'll never understand Ni doms...
    Hadoblado
    I don't believe in the veracity of MBTI. For this reason, I don't expend much effort attempting to learn the ins and outs of the system. As such, any typing I do is based on shallow heuristics, and while I understand this, I think there are many members who have an approximately equal understanding, but do not realise.

    Instead of identifying traits of INTPs, I prefer to think of it as observing traits that people claiming to be INTPs have in common.

    For you, my heuristics for introversion were activated. You have a quiet voice, are not particularly assertive, seem unconfident, seem unaggressive, have eccentric interests, are into anime/broni stuff (frequent internet user hobbies), have poor verbal control, and have a demonstrated affinity for computers.

    These are the things I associate with introversion. I'm guessing wonka uses similar methods, but that the methods used to determine type are more complex than this simplistic inductive reasoning.
    Puffy
    My meditation isn't that developed as I haven't spent much time with it for a while. Moocow knows a lot more about the subject and has shared some of his techniques with me before, but I haven't had much time to put them into use. I originally started when I was a Christian, and I used it specifically as a praying technique, emptying thoughts so God could speak, etc.

    I have a really busy, frenetic head. Whenever I meditate it's largely to just slow things down, empty thoughts, or focus on a single strand these days. Sometimes I've done this in conjunction with walking/ urban exploration. So I'll meditate outside for 30 minutes to the point that my head is quiet and I can just focus on sounds, sensations in my body etc. And because of the sensory deprevation things become more clarified when I leave it, I feel able to focus on sensations, sounds, images, without the abstracts blurring them as much. It is a little emotional, I think its more inferior Se 'direct experience' though.
    Puffy
    Ha, no not really. We haven't spoken much. (:

    I think Auburn is Jungian, so I imagine he understands ESTP to be an Se-Ti dominant as outlined in Jung's Personality Types (which if I remember is probably available for free online.) Half suspecting you might be aware of this though, why do you ask?

    If you don't agree with his read, I'd just not use it. Visual reading is still in development after all, and at best it's a tool to use for self-understanding/ growth. If it's not doing that, there's no need (imo, anyway.)
    nanook
    hi, all i can say is that i see big differences in the three faces, yours and theirs. i was only looking at fotos. the mouth is similar in all three, yes. chapelle has dancing sparkling eyes, lopez has penetrantly staring eyes, you have detached dreamy eyes. chapelle has a radiating welcoming smile like a nice resonating extrovert, lopez has a professional rigid smile like a highly self-motivated guy, you are not inclined to smile frequently at all. lopez' smile or attitude is overriding his eyes, chapelles eyes are idependently above his smile, your eyes are miles away from a smile. i keep my unskilled speculations as to what this means in terms of functions to my self. just intuitively i feel that the three of you have three different types. some functions in common, perhaps. i haven't learned much from auburn yet, i just picked up something about the mouth shapes. i wasn't very motivated, lately.
    Auburn
    Hey ya!

    Mmhm, yep, it'll all become public in time. When you say 'type yourself' do you mean you'd like to do it? If so it'd take learning how to identify and distinguish between different types. That could take a while to teach, though the videos will do that, but they're not out yet.

    But if you'd like to know in advanced, you could PM me a video of yourself and I can identify your type.
    Da Blob
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakras

    The concept of Chakra is bit off base, IMO. However, it does serve as an illustration. I think the movie, Flatlander serves as a better illustration in part. Via transcendentalism we can observe 6 'dimensions', from a POV in the seventh.
    Da Blob
    Thanks! looks like an interesting read, but I do not know if we can 'prove' the afterlife until we are actually there... (?)
    Da Blob
    what is it that integrates all levels of subjectivity?

    I suspect something on the order of a mind field, there's an old thread about that, sort of... But I could not locate it...
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