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The Utter Lack of Integrity on INTPf

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wonkavision

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It's amazing how this forum is allowed to criticize the Bible. Yet nobody is allowed to defend it.

Well, in the end, it's your problem.

I guess you're OK with having no integrity. But actually, that's the least of your problems.

The bigger issue here, is that apart from faith in Jesus Christ, you will all burn in hell for eternity.

The fact that you won't allow a fair exchange on this matter only testifies to the wickedness of your hearts.

And my heart's desire is that God might save you.

And he will only do that through his WORD.

1 Corinthians 1:18-24,
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.




-- Wonkavision.
 

Absurdity

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You keep asking to be martyred, so I'm going to grant you your wish. Goodbye, Wonka.
 

Jennywocky

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No one will defend the Bible? Rubbish.

For example, the transmission process itself has been very accurate because we have so many pieces of parchment (in the thousands) over centuries and can compare what the scripture there said in one century versus centuries earlier.

The problem is that we don't know if the originals were historically accurate. Just because I copy "Little Red Riding Hood" for 2000 years accurately doesn't mean that the story itself actually happened.

(and so on)

One can give some fair allowance to the Bible, while also making fair criticisms.


Anyway... So that's what happens when you push the red button.
Adios, Wonka. Enjoy your ride on the great glass elevator in the sky!

195px-Wonkavator.jpg
 

TBerg

fallen angel who hasn't earned his wings
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I don't really believe in banning people, but your Ken-Ham-style ego blinded you to your persona that appeared to be trollish. The fact that you used the Bible to support your belief in the Bible, and could not fathom any logos outside the Bible, made you into something that was not able to accept the ramifications of anything, unless you could pick your favorite quote to "prove" it.
 

The Introvert

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There are plenty of people here that will play devil's advocate and defend the Bible ;)

But seriously, wonka is a dweeb. Better off gone anyway.
 

Reluctantly

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You got it backwards, MrWonka. I'm already burning; I'll burn Hell and not the other way around.
 

Cavallier

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redbaron

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"Smoke w33d everyday" - wonkavision
 

QuickTwist

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I ran into one of my old high school friends about a year ago and the first thing he said when I asked him what he was up to was to say "I smoke trees everyday." This was funny because he never even mentioned smoking trees to me when we were in high school together. I wonder if Wonka ever was experienced in such things?
 

The Void

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BigApplePi

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Am I going outta my mind? I thought this thread was closed? What's going on here? I just posted on my blog I'm talking to wonka. I'm exploring the mystery of firm belief but I have lots of other things on my mind and can't figure out everything.
 

QuickTwist

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Am I going outta my mind? I thought this thread was closed? What's going on here? I just posted on my blog I'm talking to wonka. I'm exploring the mystery of firm belief but I have lots of other things on my mind and can't figure out everything.

I read your blog. I'm interested in how it turns out.
 

BigApplePi

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I see the issue here as being one of FIRM BELIEF. Some have it and some don't. Still others have a firm belief about those who have firm beliefs. From the POV of someone who believes beliefs are like leaves on a tree (me) ... legitimate but transient, why on Earth should I be surprised when some people are strong branches, not like leaves on a tree?

Wife knocking on door ... gotta go.
 

QuickTwist

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@BAP, don't get yourself banned.
 

Jennywocky

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i doubt your transparent ploy of allowing this banned member a presence on the forum through your personal blog is going to go over well with staff.

You can talk to whoever you want on your own time, of course. If you think his ideas are important, I suggest that you think about what he tells you, incorporate them into your own ideas, and then present them as your own, in a way that is constructive versus how that banned member consistently presented them. Stop referring to the member all the time as if you're a mouthpiece; just present the ideas that you think are worth discussing in your own words.

You seem to have a large (even ginormous) misunderstanding that people are getting banned for their ideas, when really it's their presentation and general assholery that got their forum presence snuffed.
 

Base groove

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It's amazing how this forum is allowed to criticize the Bible. Yet nobody is allowed to defend it.

Well, in the end, it's your problem.

I guess you're OK with having no integrity. But actually, that's the least of your problems.

The bigger issue here, is that apart from faith in Jesus Christ, you will all burn in hell for eternity.

The fact that you won't allow a fair exchange on this matter only testifies to the wickedness of your hearts.

And my heart's desire is that God might save you.

And he will only do that through his WORD.


BAP,

Defend Wonka. Begin.
 

BigApplePi

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@Jennywocky.
i doubt your transparent ploy of allowing this banned member a presence on the forum through your personal blog is going to go over well with staff.
"Transparent ploy" sounds like I'm up to some nefarious activity. I know how you feel about wonka ... or I think I do. I'm not trying to bug anyone. I know what he did. What I'm after is the mystery of intransigent belief. Once one has a belief that behaves unalterably it holds a certain strength but only to the source. It matter to others only if they let it matter. It's like a rock. A rock has unchanging strength. It only hurts if you throw it and it hits someone. That's two parts: it has to be thrown. Someone has to stand in its path.

As for staff. They are silent. If they object to something they think I am implying, let them speak up and say I'm on the wrong path. They haven't (particulars in the past have already been spoken for), so I assume I'm okay. Of course you jenny I'd like to hear more of this from as you haven't spoken to me, only just now.

You can talk to whoever you want on your own time, of course. If you think his ideas are important, I suggest that you think about what he tells you, incorporate them into your own ideas, and then present them as your own, in a way that is constructive versus how that banned member consistently presented them. Stop referring to the member all the time as if you're a mouthpiece; just present the ideas that you think are worth discussing in your own words.
I've lost you. Isn't that what I'm doing? Where or how do you see me as being his "mouthpiece"? Am I too specific and would you prefer me to speak in greater generalizations?

You seem to have a large (even ginormous) misunderstanding that people are getting banned for their ideas, when really it's their presentation and general assholery that got their forum presence snuffed.
Now that's a real really good point. I believe that's a good reason to get snuffed. I've been told by some here and on other Forums that I behave politely and courteously ... for the most part. That's me. But what you say goes both ways. When someone is inconsiderate of others I see the powers that be behave in exactly the same way. Well maybe not exactly, but anything but respectfully. This is an argument up for grabs: If someone is disrespectful do they get spoken disrespect in return? Hell it's the example people set. I wince every time I see discourtesy on the part of any member of this Forum. Those in power should set the BEST examples. Do they?

I would like to see that turned around. Now how can I do my part to turn it around without talking about it and perhaps experimentally making mistakes. If people are involved how would I address them without mentioning them? By generalizations and abstractions as I'm doing in this post?
 

BigApplePi

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BAP,

Defend Wonka. Begin.
Are you serious? You trying to get me into trouble? YOU defend him. I will defend wonka only if I can defend you, jenny, every moderator, myself and whoever wants to be defended as well.

Anyway. I forget. Was this thread closed? Now that it's open, can we KEEP it open until the moderators discuss how it should be closed again? Maybe the moderators are right. This thread should be closed. But can we discuss it first?
 

Base groove

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Anyway. I forget. Was this thread closed? Now that it's open, can we KEEP it open until the moderators discuss how it should be closed again? Maybe the moderators are right. This thread should be closed. But can we discuss it first?

Here you go again.

Now what has happened is you started one place and then instead of moving forward you took a big step backwards. Let me spell it out for you.

1. The thread is open (I have Se and Te)
2. It will stay open as long as we have a conversation and probably much longer than that even (I have Ni and Te)

There, it's been discussed. No reason to discuss it further.

3. Wonka is indefensible. I tried to illustrate why as best as I knew how while still leaving things relatively open. The example I used is the one that got him banned. This thread, in fact.

Basically, it means you got what you wanted: a chance to defend him. I believe what JW has said, is you should be doing it on your own, or at least with your own ideas. Think of it this way: forum has decided it doesn't want to hear what Wonka has to say, forum is still open to hearing what you have to say about Wonka.
 

Absurdity

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@Jennywocky."Transparent ploy" sounds like I'm up to some nefarious activity. I know how you feel about wonka ... or I think I do. I'm not trying to bug anyone. I know what he did. What I'm after is the mystery of intransigent belief.

Something you apparently were not interested in pursuing until Wonka was banned, so pardon me if I am skeptical of your intentions, but there is a very clear pattern here.

As Jenny said, we are not going to let you speak for Wonka. You can talk about belief in general all you want -- I may even join the conversation. But pursuing that road by using examples of what Wonka believes or did on this forum (as opposed to using other individuals and situations for examples) is ill advised.
 

Jennywocky

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"Transparent ploy" sounds like I'm up to some nefarious activity. I know how you feel about wonka ... or I think I do. I'm not trying to bug anyone. I know what he did. What I'm after is the mystery of intransigent belief. Once one has a belief that behaves unalterably it holds a certain strength but only to the source. It matter to others only if they let it matter. It's like a rock. A rock has unchanging strength. It only hurts if you throw it and it hits someone. That's two parts: it has to be thrown. Someone has to stand in its path.

As for staff. They are silent. If they object to something they think I am implying, let them speak up and say I'm on the wrong path. They haven't (particulars in the past have already been spoken for), so I assume I'm okay. Of course you jenny I'd like to hear more of this from as you haven't spoken to me, only just now.

I've lost you. Isn't that what I'm doing? Where or how do you see me as being his "mouthpiece"? Am I too specific and would you prefer me to speak in greater generalizations?

Seriously? You don't have to mention or talk about the guy to talk about "intransigent belief" as a concept. Just stop bringing him and his banning up and discuss the topic you claim you want to discuss in your own words.

Now that's a real really good point. I believe that's a good reason to get snuffed. I've been told by some here and on other Forums that I behave politely and courteously ... for the most part. That's me. But what you say goes both ways. When someone is inconsiderate of others I see the powers that be behave in exactly the same way. Well maybe not exactly, but anything but respectfully. This is an argument up for grabs: If someone is disrespectful do they get spoken disrespect in return? Hell it's the example people set. I wince every time I see discourtesy on the part of any member of this Forum. Those in power should set the BEST examples. Do they?

Let me sum this up for you: A jerk moves into the neighborhood, blasts his boombox all night, creates public disturbances and spectacles even when the entire neighborhood complains and refuses to treat others with respect, and then when someone finally gets pissed (because all the considerate resolutions have failed) and eggs his car, you climb on your soapbox and declare, "Oh, how dare you be discourteous to this chap!"

I don't cry for the guy. He received what he instigated. If you want to be part of a group, then you have to fit to the mores of the group; and if you don't like the mores, go somewhere else. He didn't show respect to others, and finally the forum turned on him.

Move on.

I would like to see that turned around. Now how can I do my part to turn it around without talking about it and perhaps experimentally making mistakes. If people are involved how would I address them without mentioning them? By generalizations and abstractions as I'm doing in this post?

How many times has this exact same conversation occurred on this forum? I'm not even trying to get dragged into it, and yet here I am. Stupid, stupid me. Getting back to your rock analogy, the problem is that even when I stand outside the line of fire, I still get hit by the stupid rocks because they go in every direction.

You're smart. Figure this out.
 

Fukyo

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Okay. I'm about out of patience with this whole thing. Wonka is trying to register new accounts because of your consistent attempts to resurrect the topic of his banning and him in general.

I don't want to see any more ban evasions indirectly encouraged and redundant drama on the forum because one member has an issue with it and has to make it into everyone else's issue. Wonka will not be allowed back and will not be given any more publicity on here. I will close this thread and I will abort any further attempts to necro this drama and Wonka's rotting body. Do not bring this issue over in new threads or they will be closed. Do not make further threads about this issue. If you want to make a thread "dialoguing with fundamentalists" do it, but leave Wonka and your thinly veiled attempts to discuss him/appeal his ban out of it.

I didn't want it to come to this because you are a long time member here BAP, and until some months ago you weren't making yourself a nuisance by creating pointless drama that virtually nobody gives a fuck about except those that also like to fan the drama, and by constantly trying to tell the mods what to do, but if you keep this up you will be punished with exiles to Siberia or temporary bans.

Each moderator can close a thread if his/her's judgement tells them that
it's undesirable or lacks potential. Same with bans. I don't want to shove authority down people's throats but that call is not yours BAP. Accept it or move on. We don't have the patience for going back and forth with you any more.
 
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