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Talented liars?

Andy

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I don't lie a lot. But every time I do people believe me. Every single time. I remember when I had to bullshit myself out of a really serious problem a couple years ago in my class in front of the teacher, it was like a theater performance. Made it all up on the spot and after the lesson about 15 people approached me with a concerned "aww that's terrible, is there any way I can help you?" look on their faces. My face is usually stone cold but I guess I managed to capture the desperate 'going to burst into tears any second' look. Since then I try to lie just if I can get away with it from time to time, but have stopped lately because sometimes I even manage to convince myself it's true. I also seem to be extremely aware what are other people thinking (which is helpful but often I get way too...paranoid).

Is it natural for an INTP to understand emotions so well - even if he doesn't use them - and lie/act like Nixon's grandkid? Or is it just me :phear:
 

Yellow

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I rarely lie because I hate it. It makes me feel creepy-crawly. However, I have had to lie a couple of times in the last decade or so, and it has been incredibly successful. It is hard to say whether I was believed because I have established myself as trustworthy, or because I put on a convincing act. In general though, mimicking emotions, body language, etc. is normal for INTPs so it would follow that it would make us talented liars.
 

NoID10ts

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I don't think I am capable of outright lying to someone. I've fudged up the facts or conveniently left things out which is the same as lying as far as I am concerned, but it hasn't happened often. I can't even remember a specific instance.

My wife's ingrate nephew lives with us and the way I know that little fucker is lying is if his mouth is moving. He lies about everything, even when there is no logical reason to lie. Even in the course of everyday conversation he'll drop outrageous claims that make me want to staple his damn lips together and cave his skull in to be merciful to this unsuspecting world he is being unleashed into. (okay, maybe this is going too far, but he annoys me something fierce)

I'm pretty good at spotting bullshit when I'm one on one with people and I know how to check facts. When people lie to me, it's like spitting in my face. I find it so unbelievably disrespectful that my trust becomes very hard to regain. I've known a few habitual liars in my life and, for me, it reaches a point where they don't even exist to me. They aren't worth speaking to because their word and their authenticity is completely undermined in my view.

Am I extreme in this? Don't most INTP's value authenticity? I guess this hits a nerve with me because of my present situation.
 

Tyria

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I don't know if it is natural for an INTP to understand emotions well, but I would tell you to think about why you lie. Trust is important in relationships, and people do not like being deceived. If you are found out, they will lose their trust in you.

Finally, I think it is a good thing that you have stopped lying lately. When you begin to convince yourself with your own lies, the line between truth and lie gets thinner and thinner. Being an INTP, it might set you up for some personal problems for you if you strive to be authentic.

Tread cautiously.
 

Carnap

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I have the opposite problem. I am too honest. Brutal frankness that hurts people's feelings.

It's a lack of inhibition. Blame it on the pre-frontal lobe...
 

Kidege

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One of the reasons I don't talk to my father is that he lies. We live in the same house. He lies. 20 years without speaking with each other and counting.

I'm fairly decent at acting, but I think that for people to believe you you have to tell the truth. Anything else is ugh... bad.
 

Deleted member 1424

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Human interaction mystified me as a child, but the older I get the more simple and inane it becomes. It probably stems from growing up with extroverts, but most social interactions hold little mystery for me now. My point is that while I don't typically lie, it would probably be very easy for me to do so. If I ever became accustomed to it, I doubt anyone would be the wiser.

That being said I have a nigh irrational hatred for liars, even more so if there isn't a particular intent behind it. Lying just for the sake of lying is rather repugnant; it serves no point. INTPs seek truth and value clarity; lies can completely devastate and subvert this pursuit.

Most of the people who know me develop an almost implicit trust, and with good reason, as even if I'm not emotionally attached to them, I'm extremely unlikely to betray that trust. If I do lie it's generally either a short lived ruse for humor's sake or an omission of an inconvenient, but relatively innocuous fact.

...........but what about generalized deception? I portray myself in a certain way (more so irl than here) as a defensive mechanism to hide my real nature. Stems from the fact I don't readily trust people to accept that self. It's also a lot less painful when people find fault with a persona than with the true self. All humans do it to some extent. Is using a persona synonymous with lying?
 

B4nd1t_one

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as INTP's we mirror peoples emotions all the time, i can see this being just another form of a lie. maybe when we lie we end up mirroring someone who would be telling the truth even if they're not there.
 

Cavallier

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There has only been a few times when I've felt the need to lie and I'm really good at it. I suspect that the reason INTPs may be good at lying is because we've got the ability to be straight faced about it. Also, not only are we intuitive and perceptive but we're good at analyzing as well. Thus we may on some level instinctively know what the person wants to hear.

I've found that the mechanics behind pulling off a good lie are frighteningly simple:

1. Stick to the truth as closely as possible in order to back up your lie.
2. Don't think about the fact that you are lying. In a weird way you have to believe (at least try your darnedest to) what you are saying.
3. Tell them something they want to hear or are known to sympathize with.

Sounds simple huh? It's a little scary and it's absolutely true that you not actually believe what you are lying about because not only are you then deluding the person you are lying to but yourself as well. It's a tricky path to believe what you are saying on one level but at the same time not delude yourself into thinking that you aren't lying. Not only is lying bad for your karma it's also rather confusing :D

I don't lie anymore because I've come to realize that if I feel the need to lie it's almost always about something I feel guilty about. Therefore it's something I need to face. If I'm ever going to be the strong independent person I want to be then I've got to face these kinds of things.
 

Tunesimah

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I don't lie, really honesty is very important to me and I just don't follow the mental paths of what can happen if I lie.

I am sarcastic and a joker, but I'm also very dry... so I've found it is very easy for people for people to believe the joke... which doesn't really help the joke much.

In fact I'm normally so neurotic and non-commital in speech that people don't believe me when I'm telling the truth. But when I tell a joke, or say something that is so absurd that it has to be false... I must say it with a bit more conviction since they'll believe the 'lie' before the truth.

NoID10ts, I'm exactly the same way. I'm usually too trusting, and the moment I learn that someone is a liar to the core I want nothing to do with them. My sister can get like that, she'll talk her self up so much that I just don't believe a word of it.

I don't get angry at much, I try to see others view points and such and such... but those liars are one group I have no tolerance for.
 

Trebuchet

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Like everyone else here, it seems, I don't lie much, but when I do, I am completely convincing. I think Cavallierose described the method very well.

Most of my lies are in the "polite" category.
"Don't worry about it; we were planning to replace that anyway."
"We'd love to come to your party!" (This one especially since my husband and I are both INTx's and we hate parties, but you don't want to be the quiet weird neighbors who keep to themselves a lot.)
"This is delicious." (In general, I would rather lie than insult a host.)

My most shameful lies were ordered by an evil boss. She told me not to admit I had a degree in Physics, since it would upset the customers. (I still don't get that.) She also told me to tell the customers a new version of the software was to be released soon, when I knew it was cancelled. I was not convincing on that one, because I really didn't want to be. I was very happy to get a new job where I NEVER HAD TO LIE.

Interesting thread topic!
 

Tunesimah

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How awful Trebuchet... I hate being told to lie by superiors. That would put me on edge.

I would have flat out refused to lie if a boss told me to...
 

Loki

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There has only been a few times when I've felt the need to lie and I'm really good at it. I suspect that the reason INTPs may be good at lying is because we've got the ability to be straight faced about it. Also, not only are we intuitive and perceptive but we're good at analyzing as well. Thus we may on some level instinctively know what the person wants to hear.


That is the same reason INTPs are excellent Poker players.
 

Cavallier

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That is the same reason INTP's are excellent Poker players.

Indeed. This is the same reason none of my friends will play Hearts or Poker with me for money. I look at their faces and know I've got them beat.

We really need a good giggling smilie.
 

-Z-

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When I saw this topic, I was ready to write a lot on this subject, but after reading these posts seems like there is no need to do so.

I agree on all of it and it pretty much describes me. Also, I often see ways of manipulating people but just don't do it because I do not find it right.

One thing I would like to add though, I really, really hate when people come to talk to me with some hidden agenda (that I can see quite clearly most of the time) and start the conversation with some irrelevant subjects while after some time trying to lead the talk to the subject they wanted to discuss in the first place.
In such situations I often won't let the conversation to reach the subject they desire but actually make it flow in the opposite direction and watch the frustration that gradually appears on their faces.
This does make me feel a bit bad about myself though :(
 

Jaico

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I'm fairly good at bluffing/making stuff up/lying (especially after learning how to not appear to lie), but I only tend to do so in games (i.e. Diplomacy, Clue, etc.) Lying in 'everyday' life doesn't feel right - I always try to tell the truth (but I may soften it, depending on the situation).
 

cheese

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I'm a terrible liar. This is probably part of the reason I don't really do it.

I might not be INTP though.
 

Oblivious

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cheese is a good person... or an extremely good liar.
 

cheese

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I'm honestly not a liar, I swear.
 

Oblivious

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I believe you cheese. I don't think you are a liar neither. It's just really rare to find such a straightforward person like you.
 

cheese

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I think you're a liar. :p
 

Ungomma

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The trend is obvious: INTPs can lie pretty well, but hate it and rarely, if ever, do so.

Games have been mentioned here - indeed, I absolutely adore lying and deceiving while playing games, inventing all sorts of facts, faking emotions, etc. It may well be that I enjoy it so much because I don't get to lie enough in real life. However, I can observe, that what I like is creating a lie and watching it work, I receive aesthetic pleasure from complex lies; a bluff which couldn't work but does is almost orgasmic. :) And I extend that apperciation for the art of lying to real life, actually. Sometimes I think that I might not get offended if somebody staged a complicated, flawless performance to deceive me instead of bluntly stating false facts which I could easily check, as most do. It someone does that, I will simply accept my defeat, with no ill thoughts towards the man, for I will have participated in an artistic project of a sort.

I wonder: why do we hate lies in general and feel very uncomfortable lying to anyone? Values of 'truth and clarity' (which I share) have been mentioned, but I feel that there is a deeper reason for that.

When I'm being lied to the false information limits my ability to act in the world, infringes on my freedom. But why don't I lie? Even when it is certain that truth won't be discovered and that nobody cares about the subject?
 

Oblivious

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I think you're a liar. :p

You ARE a bad liar.

The trend is obvious: INTPs can lie pretty well, but hate it and rarely, if ever, do so.

Games have been mentioned here - indeed, I absolutely adore lying and deceiving while playing games, inventing all sorts of facts, faking emotions, etc. It may well be that I enjoy it so much because I don't get to lie enough in real life. However, I can observe, that what I like is creating a lie and watching it work, I receive aesthetic pleasure from complex lies; a bluff which couldn't work but does is almost orgasmic. :) And I extend that apperciation for the art of lying to real life, actually. Sometimes I think that I might not get offended if somebody staged a complicated, flawless performance to deceive me instead of bluntly stating false facts which I could easily check, as most do. It someone does that, I will simply accept my defeat, with no ill thoughts towards the man, for I will have participated in an artistic project of a sort.

I wonder: why do we hate lies in general and feel very uncomfortable lying to anyone? Values of 'truth and clarity' (which I share) have been mentioned, but I feel that there is a deeper reason for that.

When I'm being lied to the false information limits my ability to act in the world, infringes on my freedom. But why don't I lie? Even when it is certain that truth won't be discovered and that nobody cares about the subject?

I think its the same difference between shooting something in a game and shooting someone in real life. It's actually fun, but not something to be taken lightly.
 

cheese

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You ARE a bad liar.

Or maybe I'm just a really good - ok, fine.

The trend is obvious: INTPs can lie pretty well

Brrr. :(

However, I can observe, that what I like is creating a lie and watching it work, I receive aesthetic pleasure from complex lies; a bluff which couldn't work but does is almost orgasmic. :) And I extend that apperciation for the art of lying to real life, actually. Sometimes I think that I might not get offended if somebody staged a complicated, flawless performance to deceive me instead of bluntly stating false facts which I could easily check, as most do. It someone does that, I will simply accept my defeat, with no ill thoughts towards the man, for I will have participated in an artistic project of a sort.

You should've been here a while ago (obligatory :phear:).

I agree, to an extent. I do have feelings though, and if I had any sort of personal relationship with the person, would feel betrayed, though intellectually I would worship - uh, critically applaud - their artistry.

I wonder: why do we hate lies in general and feel very uncomfortable lying to anyone? Values of 'truth and clarity' (which I share) have been mentioned, but I feel that there is a deeper reason for that.

When I'm being lied to the false information limits my ability to act in the world, infringes on my freedom. But why don't I lie? Even when it is certain that truth won't be discovered and that nobody cares about the subject?

I like ob's distinction.

Could just be a conscience issue, passed down by the lovingly mutated hands of evolution. In my experience those who are truly amoral really have no compunction/discomfort when lying. Perhaps this is Jiminy rearing his tiny head, but we're unable to process/understand/recognise it because we can't find logical reasons.

Could also be that it requires effort. Internal dissonance, fact-fiction friction. Since most of us are not inclined to lie to ourselves, Cavallierose's intellectual shape-shifting might be very difficult to accomplish. The subsequent mental effort at either achieving that or holding opposing views about reality is simply uncomfortable.
 

phantasia

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I'm an expert liar and I kind of have talent and developed this when younger when I had unbelievably irrational computer time-rules and I lied to my parents eeeyy couple of times... ^^ Nowadays I don't lie very often, but it's useful to have the skills whenever a white lie is needed.

And I wouldn't be suprised if this is typical for INTP.
 

Oblivious

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When you lie, one of the first things you do is not to believe your own lie. If you believe your own lie its not a lie anymore since you think its true! Which defeats the entire damn purpose.

Told you you were a bad liar cheese.
 

cheese

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There has only been a few times when I've felt the need to lie and I'm really good at it.

I've found that the mechanics behind pulling off a good lie are frighteningly simple:

1. Stick to the truth as closely as possible in order to back up your lie.
2. Don't think about the fact that you are lying. In a weird way you have to believe (at least try your darnedest to) what you are saying.
3. Tell them something they want to hear or are known to sympathize with.

It's ok, ob. Not all of us are capable of compartmentalising our minds.

Since most of us are not inclined to lie to ourselves, Cavallierose's intellectual shape-shifting might be very difficult to accomplish.

Or reading, it seems.


*edit
I see your deeper purpose. Just so you know. I know. *secret handshake* Oops, false finger there.
 

Oblivious

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Are you being peeved at being called a bad liar cheese?
 

cheese

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Are you trolling, obby?

Anyway, I thought that word is spelt 'lol'. Guess I got caught in the skillz of yet another liar whose web-weaving is far superior to mine. Oh well, there was a fair amount of cubism involved so it's all good. Plus I got a T-shirt that says "Ask me about That Night".
 

Kuu

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Behold, the black sheep!

My default communication mode is actually set to be as vague and non-informative as possible, if not to lie. It takes an effort to be honest, and a person that will understand and appreciate that honesty and what it implies. But then again, I really don't talk much. I don't have any moral hangups or discomfort about this situation; after all 95% of things you tell to people, they will forget about in a week or less (if they even paid attention). I used to actually be very specific and obsessively honest in my communication, but I realized most people don't give a crap about you and that the truth is really irrelevant. Indeed, many even refuse to believe the truth... People lie to themselves more than I lie to them, anyways... all of life is a fantastic fabrication.

I don't lie to manipulate people, I just defuse compromising situations and keep people at a secure distance, there is just no desire to control and manipulate.

Interestingly enough, I make a point NOT to lie in social situations, I am brutally honest about things I like and dislike, people and my relationship to them (yes, you look fat in that dress, yes, your cooking sucks, your house is ugly, you are poor and stupid, and I was actually forced to come here). I guess that's what some people would call rude, but people tend to come to me months later and say I'm one of the few persons they like because I tell it how it is...

Also, being so jaded I have a very high tolerance of people's lies, as long as they're not about things that really matter or coming from people that really know me and I care about (the rest of humanity is lost to me). After all, lies are expected. The truth is usually readily apparent in any case, so the lies of others rarely affect me. But if you lie about something big, I will find out, and I won't ever speak to you again. Since the ideal mate/friend is that which you can be 100% honest with (an ideal most probably unreachable)...

Once, I lied for nearly 3 years about some petty stupid thing, partly out of ego and partly out of experiment, a web of lies so complexly elaborate and detailed, that at some point I believed it was true, and in the end I could not even recall what really happened. I guess that's how myths and history are made.

Now, Tekton's Decalogue for Successful Mis-Information, Mastering the Arts of Deceit, and Other Untruthful Activities of Convenience :phear:, in no particular order:
To lie so much and rarely be found out, one must, first of all, be honest and straightforward about most trivial things. Compulsive liars that lie about everything are plainly transparent and never trusted by anyone other than total fools.
Second, one must keep it consistent, and must keep track of the lies that have been told previously: give the same lie every time, and to everyone.
Third, there must be an anchor to reality (or several), details that are clearly true and verifiable. In between these the lies will be squeezed false details that are realistic but unverifiable, which must be kept to the minimum (never give names or personal details that friends or colleagues might readily tell, in fact, try to keep 3rd parties off your fabrications entirely).
Fourth, always think your lies beforehand, and keep additional details as reserve if people ask too much questions, you don't want to be caught hesitating and scrambling for ill conceived excuses.
Fifth, don't tell if you're not asked. Except > give some detail when first questioned; with the details first and the lies later. If you give the lie first, they'll always ask why? and why? , and you'll sound like you're making excuses on the go.
Sixth, if the lies involve several people, give them the same general story and details, but give each one a unique verifiable detail, this way if they communicate, your story becomes more coherent and believable, not less. In fact, if you are keeping track of different lie streams, you can also tie them together with these details.
Seventh, never, ever depend on another person to sustain your lies: they will fuck up.
Eight, always be cool, and don't forget to fake surprise or ignorance when appropriate.
Ninth, don't be too certain or too eager to give your details; it can seem too phony and preplanned.
Tenth, prep your lies. If the target is person A, but you're first gonna meet person B, and they are somewhat related, first tell person B. This way you can practice and use person B for added legitimacy, specially if person B is more easily deceived and/or has a good relationship with person A.
Finally, the zeroth law, only lie when absolutely necessary. :angel:


Of course this becomes second nature after a while, and it requires no effort to achieve. Not that I'm advocating it, but it is yet another skill to add to my list of wasted talents.

(Oh woes! Have I fallen from your holy graces?)
 

Cavallier

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It's ok, ob. Not all of us are capable of compartmentalising our minds.



Or reading, it seems.


*edit
I see your deeper purpose. Just so you know. I know. *secret handshake* Oops, false finger there.

Compartmentalizing...that's the exactly the concept I was trying to explain but couldn't remember the word for. Thank you!

Don't worry about the finger. I never remember the handshake either. Maybe that's why they never let me in the clubhouse :(
 

Kidege

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@Tekton:

What do you do that for? It seems like a huge amount of work, effortless as it may seem by now.

I'd be tempted to kick you and/or strangle you if I caught you in RL.

^ honesty
 

echoplex

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I suppose it's almost tragic that those who are best at lying also hate doing it the most. Imagine if all abilities were like that! Only bad singers want to sing, only bad athletes play sports, only bad parents have kids.

Wait...nevermind.
 

Oblivious

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Are you trolling, obby?

Anyway, I thought that word is spelt 'lol'. Guess I got caught in the skillz of yet another liar whose web-weaving is far superior to mine. Oh well, there was a fair amount of cubism involved so it's all good. Plus I got a T-shirt that says "Ask me about That Night".

But... but... you said you'd worship me! cheese you lair. :(
 

Minuend

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I usually don't lie, I don't have much to lie about. In the past, I have been successful lying. But I tend to avoid the question/ statement if I don't want to answer it. I don't think I'm above average in lying.
 

cheese

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But... but... you said you'd worship me! cheese you lair. :(

There, there. Have some holy....water.


Glad to be of use cavallierose. (I am not the appendix of the forum, dammit.)
 

Death

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Now, Tekton's Decalogue for Successful Mis-Information, Mastering the Arts of Deceit, and Other Untruthful Activities of Convenience :phear:, in no particular order:
To lie so much and rarely be found out, one must, first of all, be honest and straightforward about most trivial things. Compulsive liars that lie about everything are plainly transparent and never trusted by anyone other than total fools.
Second, one must keep it consistent, and must keep track of the lies that have been told previously: give the same lie every time, and to everyone.
Third, there must be an anchor to reality (or several), details that are clearly true and verifiable. In between these the lies will be squeezed false details that are realistic but unverifiable, which must be kept to the minimum (never give names or personal details that friends or colleagues might readily tell, in fact, try to keep 3rd parties off your fabrications entirely).
Fourth, always think your lies beforehand, and keep additional details as reserve if people ask too much questions, you don't want to be caught hesitating and scrambling for ill conceived excuses.
Fifth, don't tell if you're not asked. Except > give some detail when first questioned; with the details first and the lies later. If you give the lie first, they'll always ask why? and why? , and you'll sound like you're making excuses on the go.
Sixth, if the lies involve several people, give them the same general story and details, but give each one a unique verifiable detail, this way if they communicate, your story becomes more coherent and believable, not less. In fact, if you are keeping track of different lie streams, you can also tie them together with these details.
Seventh, never, ever depend on another person to sustain your lies: they will fuck up.
Eight, always be cool, and don't forget to fake surprise or ignorance when appropriate.
Ninth, don't be too certain or too eager to give your details; it can seem too phony and preplanned.
Tenth, prep your lies. If the target is person A, but you're first gonna meet person B, and they are somewhat related, first tell person B. This way you can practice and use person B for added legitimacy, specially if person B is more easily deceived and/or has a good relationship with person A.
Finally, the zeroth law, only lie when absolutely necessary. :angel:


Of course this becomes second nature after a while, and it requires no effort to achieve. Not that I'm advocating it, but it is yet another skill to add to my list of wasted talents.

(Oh woes! Have I fallen from your holy graces?)

This post reminds me of Yagami Light/Kira from Death Note,he is one god damn liar.

As for lying,I tried to joke it off,if the situation does not permit frivolity and demands some serious answer,I will lie only if the lie does not need maintenance in long run and the the truth is something you don't want to share.

:phear:
 

beastie

and then what?
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I dont lie and I despise people who lie and will cut them off in a flash.
I think the reason I dont lie may be that I have enough trouble getting people to believe the truth about what I am saying - once people get to know me well they then realise what I am saying is actually true.
I can lie and have used it as a form of childish entertainment/social experiment - fabricating some ridiculous unbelievable story to see whether people will believe me. Funny thing is I am believed when I do this but not when Im telling the truth.
I once fabricated a story in a library with a group of people looking at book which showed a crowd in Germany, possibly 1940s and a man had on what looked like a backpack. There were a few thousand in the photo and you couldnt distinguish one person from the next. I acted surprised and said that the man was a distant uncle who was developing the first mobile phone etc etc. Everyone believed me so I continued adding ridiculous "facts" until I was kicked out for attracting a crowd.
Nevertheless, I always admit to the the falsity of my "true" stories and love it when people do this to me in return - keeps me on my toes.
As long as its in good fun and not for personal gain Im OK with it.
 

walfin

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Perhaps it is the low frequency of lying that makes lies all the more believable.

INTPs are often so earnest and truthful.

Not all of us, though, seeing as there are people with fake accounts, etc. etc.

I should think INTPs are more gullible than others when we're being lied to, too (as long as the lie is logically valid), because of the open mindedness. We are probably most susceptible to lies made by other INTPs.

beastie said:
Funny thing is I am believed when I do this but not when Im telling the truth.
Sometimes lies are a lot more believable than the truth. It all depends on what the listener wants to believe. A good lie is targeted at its audience.
 

Enne

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:o I can't help it. I learnt long ago that people place an infinite amount of value on what they wish to hear, as opposed to the truth.

Then again, I won't ... go there. I AM an ENTP. :storks:
 

Kuu

>>Loading
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@Tekton:

What do you do that for? It seems like a huge amount of work, effortless as it may seem by now.

I'd be tempted to kick you and/or strangle you if I caught you in RL.

^ honesty

Really? Would you be so kind?


That post of mine probably made me sound like I lie way more than I actually do. But if you're gonna do it, do it well, and do it with style. :smoker:

As to why do it? I hold no pretense of perfection, I'm flawed as is everyone else. It's a matter of convenience. Mostly to get annoying people away from me and my goals; people who don't respond to rationality, and seem to hold no appreciation for actual Truth when they stumble upon it. And sometimes to protect myself, or (certainly naively or patronizingly) in a stupid attempt to protect others.

Would the world be better without lies? Some people seem to be so sure about it, but I don't know what they are basing that on. I'm not even sure that would be possible.

I (perhaps in futility) seek understanding of the fundamental essence of existance; to pretend that lying and suffering is not an integral part of the human condition would be intellectually incoherent with this goal. Of course, I want a world where understanding is shared openly, and understanding requires the truth, but there is a distinction I draw (at times, perhaps, quite blurry) between trivial facts of social living and universal Truths of nature and science, that allow me to see no contradiction between my quest and my behavior.

Information, by itself, is useless. What good is my honesty regarding irrelevant trivial facts? Does anyone really care, does it even matter if they do, and does it matter in the grand scheme of things if there happens to be one?
 

Chimera

To inanity and beyond
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A few weeks ago, I would have said "Oh yeah, sincerety is one of the most important things to me in the world, I want to uphold it no matter what." But that was me lying to myself, ironically. 'Cos, while I try my best to be strictly truthful with those I'm close to (minus a few half-truths and blurry answers that are open to their interpretations), I don't exactly care as much about lying to random people, or acquantances.
I mean, I agree with what Tictac said. People forget 95% of whatever you tell them by next week. So if lying saves you from uncomfortable situations or unwanted drama, which probably saves the person you're lying to a headache or worse, then...is it worth it?
If you suck at lying and get caught a lot, naturally it's better to just shut your mouth and stop digging your own grave. If neither truth nor lie can save you...mmm sucks to be you.

Lying is seen as negative...why, exactly? Because everyone wishes they were pure and truthful and sincere? But what about those sticky situations when lying could save someone's life? What if someone had a low chance of survival, but giving up hope would surely kill them, so a person lied to keep them fighting... Could you really argue that it would have been better to tell them the truth?
Of course, few situations when people do lie are as drastic as that. But it's the principle I'm talking about. What happens when lying saves someone from pain? What do morals have to say about that?

Oh, by the way, I'm a sickeningly good liar when I want/have to be. My talent for it is on par with my talent for manipulation. It disgusts me. :]
 

Tyria

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I used to actually be very specific and obsessively honest in my communication, but I realized most people don't give a crap about you and that the truth is really irrelevant. Indeed, many even refuse to believe the truth... People lie to themselves more than I lie to them, anyways... all of life is a fantastic fabrication.

I'm curious, how did you deduce that people didn't care about you and why is the truth irrelevant? Do you remember the specifics surrounding what made you change your mind?
 

Kuu

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I'm curious, how did you deduce that people didn't care about you and why is the truth irrelevant? Do you remember the specifics surrounding what made you change your mind?

If you are implying that it was a specific even that left me traumatized into this apparently sick behaviour, you're wrong.

It was just daily life. There are examples of it every single day, when truth stands in front of people and yet everything continues as if nothing had happened at all. And cosmically speaking, it doesn't matter since we'll die and the universe will continue without caring whatever the fuck we thought was "the truth".

And why people don't care about me? Well the short answer is: humans are selfish bastards.
 

Enne

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^This is true. I've noticed from a young age that while most insist on the truth, few people can actually handle it. People become especially acidic when the truth involves making some personal life changes, or even if it involves facing a false sense of themselves, and how they come across to other people. In other words, for the vast majority,

"what I want to hear / what I'm hoping the truth is" >>>> The actual truth.

And I prefer to think of people as fundamentally wired for self preservation and survival. :3
 

Weliddryn

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Lying...

Games and deceptions have always enthralled me and captured my curiosity... the subtle clues that add to ften. I feel there is no need for it, much of the time, and I had made a conscious decision to change some of my own amoral behaviour despite my questionable conscience.

I am more inclined to study and analyse those who complicate their lives with such deceptions.

*Furthering my thoughts upon this subject...

At times, I can become so repulsed by lies and deception and crave sincerity intensely. Humanity will sicken me with their petty lies and self interest, yet my curiosity always comeften. I feel there is no need for it, much of the time, and I had made a conscious decision to change some of my own amoral behaviour despite my questionable conscience.

I am more inclined to study and analyse those who complicate their lives with such deceptions.

*Furthering my thoughts upon this subject...

At times, I can become so repulsed by lies and deception and crave sincerity intensely. Humanity will sicken me with their petty lies and self interest, yet my curiosity always comes creeping back, catching me unaware.

As for lying about serious things, most of the time I am a) apathetic or b) intrigued. I almost do not possess a temper.
And- at one point in my life I found myself being questioned to see if I were a suitable candidate for a mental institution as a result of opening up a bit to the wrong people. I lied my teeth off and do not regret it one bit. I consider this a serious situation.
 

transformers

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I lie all the time, and disagree with the notion that it's wrong. Lying to protect people's self images, to preserve their delusions and prevent conflict can be a good thing. Like a previous poster mentioned, people don't really want honesty. They want cooperation. They want amicable relationships. These things usually go hand in hand with honesty, but they don't have to. As long as you know when to stop, lying can be very useful.
 

Subotai

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I lie all the time, and disagree with the notion that it's wrong. Lying to protect people's self images, to preserve their delusions and prevent conflict can be a good thing. Like a previous poster mentioned, people don't really want honesty. They want cooperation. They want amicable relationships. These things usually go hand in hand with honesty, but they don't have to. As long as you know when to stop, lying can be very useful.

I agree, i lie quite often but most of the time to avoid painfull situations for both myself and the listener.
 

Subotai

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I lie all the time, and disagree with the notion that it's wrong. Lying to protect people's self images, to preserve their delusions and prevent conflict can be a good thing. Like a previous poster mentioned, people don't really want honesty. They want cooperation. They want amicable relationships. These things usually go hand in hand with honesty, but they don't have to. As long as you know when to stop, lying can be very useful.

I agree, i mostly lie for the sake of others.
 

reyo01

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Same as above. I lie to avoid awkward moments. There are also the "Where were you?" questions where I have to come up with something respectable to tell the person when all I really did was sit at home and do nothing. I forgot to go to a meeting one time, and when my Boss asked me what happened, I told him I had to sign my neice out of ISS. The trick is to not make it too complicated.
 
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