INTP's talent for thinking: strength or curse?

[snowqueen]

As a result of this comment:

I don't know why.. I am constantly doing that. Rethinking things for no practical reason, replaying conversations, restating or dismembering past explanations, working through a problem that's already been solved. I think it's the curse of the INTP.

I responded that it's a strength and a curse and our life task might be to work out when it's the one or the other.

I thought it might be interesting to ask

1. When is it a strength?

2. When is it a curse?

 

[Ashenstar]

I'm starting to liken the INTP thought process to ... pouring water on a cracked sidewalk with a slight slope. You can watch the water trickle flow though every crack and nook... sometimes the single trickle breaks off and finds other paths to take resulting in several trickles. It can be rather slow sometimes, depending on the slope of the sidewalk, but if one just sits back and lets it happen it is absolutely fascinating to see where the end result of the water's journey is.

I think this is a positive. I don't think I really need to explain how this is positive since there are many ways of explaining how this is a positive and I'm sure someone else will help with that.

At the same time though, still going with the trickle of water, if an outsider has a desired destination for the water stream often times the flow of the water can not be left alone to take its natural course or it will end up far from the wanted destination. More often than not the outsider is required to contribute to the path and influence it, I hesitate to say manipulate, but .. shape the direction of the water.

This is a slightly flawed metaphor since I need to take into consideration if the INTP themselves wishes a finality to their thoughts.. well. then again... hmm the mentioned "outsider" could be the INTP person considering their thoughts from a disconnected perspective.

 

[Cavallier]

Ash, that's a wonderful analogy.

When it is a strength:

I love my brain. I love reading and analyzing everything I read. I enjoy drawing connections between art, literature, history, sociology, psychology, and philosophy. I love tracing philosophical movements through art, history, and literature. What can I say? My brain is my favorite toy.

When it is a curse:

I go over and over and over the social interactions I have with people and the various events of the day. I have insomnia because I keep reliving my day in the evenings. My BF once pointed out that I must get exhausted because I have two lives: The one I live in the external world and the one I rehash privately. And it is like reliving my day. I get to an almost daydream like state, staring into middle distance, quietly mumbling to myself, and considering all the things I've said and thought about that day. (I know, I sound crazy) If I've had a bad day or I'm depressed then my rehashings are like an uncomfortable nightmare or rather daymare. I keep beating myself up for what I see as failings or screw ups. I keep trying to come up with ways of fixing the problems I see coming or the problems I've created from earlier that day.

I really need to learn to meditate.

 

[Fukyo]

The constant need of an INTP to rethink things is a consequence of the Ti-Ne relationship to put it simply.

It basically lies in INTPs drive for accuracy and consistency with an inner standard (Ti).
The reason why this becomes a cycle is because Ne will always be providing Ti with fresh insides and possibilities for it to pick apart and examine.Thus the returning to what seems like an already solved problem.When new ideas about the problem arise,Ti will jump into action and deconstruct the old solution,examine if for flaws and incorporate the possibly new solution.In fact,I think that Ti sometimes even on it's own returns to the old problem to check for errors,and this might also be tied the the use of Si to confirm facts involved.

Why is it useful:

It's a very meticulous analytical process that doesn't let any subtle nuances out of sight.
It can be applied in a very large number of fields as a tool for analysis.

Why it can be a curse:

Due to the sheer amount of information the Ti is processing,this can consume more time and hinder the presentation and/or the implementation of the solution.
I think that most INTPs aren't so keen on presenting ideas/theories that haven't been thought through inside and out.

 

[Tunesimah]

It's a strength when I really fully understand a subject. I go very deep into a subject if at all possible. I love this overview feeling, when I really get a subject and can break it down into it's core simple parts and just ignore all the details. I can study the details if necessary, but I'm fully confident... I know how this works.

I'm at this point with music, from Forier Analysis to music theory. I know how it works, I know the science and theory behind it. I'm not the quickest at analysis of a music score... actually I'm pretty slow...but I know how and why it all works.

I'm at this point with math up to Calculus level. I love breaking it down, and I really like explaining it in a way that cuts through the jargon and gets to the heart of the matter.

It's a weakness because this is basically the only way I can learn. I don't learn surface details, so unless I can delve into the nuts and bolts... I'm sort of stuck. And some subjects don't lend themselves to this sort of approach and I just hit a brick wall sometimes. For the longest time music notation made no sense to me, there was no pattern or reason to much of the nomenclature. I couldn't just memorize it and move on, I had to understand why.

Until I get to that understanding stage, I feel sort of clueless. There's like a hump in the learning curve that I have to hit and then it's all downhill... analogous to a roller coaster.

The problem is that often there isn't enough time to get that deep understanding, or there isn't a deep understanding stage... it's just raw inforamtion. Then I'm stuck, but I keep on pushing and pushing trying to understand... it wastes a lot of time.

I think human interactions and psychology may be one of those kind of things. So I keep searching and searching trying to understand myself and the interactions around me. I understand some, but it may just be not completely understandable... since the human mind and society is so complex. That doesn't keep me from trying... I wish I could stop trying and just learn the surfaces.

I will say that you're only going to get the groundbreaking ideas from the INTP talent for overthinking. That's probably what INTPs are best at. Unfortunately groundbreaking ideas aren't needed everyday...

 

[Agent Intellect]

Due to the sheer amount of information the Ti is processing,this can consume more time and hinder the presentation and/or the implementation of the solution.
I think that most INTPs aren't so keen on presenting ideas/theories that haven't been thought through inside and out.

I think this brings up a good analogy: it's like the Ne grabs everything it can and drops it in Ti's inbox. Ti is very meticulous and has a tendency to quadruple check everything. At the end of the day, Ti is still burning the midnight oil as one lay in bed, trapped in a state of insomnia until Ti finally finishes up.

One problem I have with all my thinking is that I tend to prefer my own mental world over the real world. My job is a mindless one, which leaves me with plenty of time to get lost in my thoughts, and I'm constantly constructing theories, stories, characters etc and I tend to shut everyone out (just today I was telling someone how I'd rather work on the semi trailer then out with everyone else, because I'd rather think to myself then listen to their moronic conversations).

I suppose what I mean is that, the fact that my thinking is such a 'strength' is what makes it a curse - I find my own thoughts much more interesting, entertaining, and insightful then most other people that I meet in my day to day life.

 

[Ermine]

Ash, that's a wonderful analogy.

When it is a strength:

I love my brain. I love reading and analyzing everything I read. I enjoy drawing connections between art, literature, history, sociology, psychology, and philosophy. I love tracing philosophical movements through art, history, and literature. What can I say? My brain is my favorite toy.

When it is a curse:

I go over and over and over the social interactions I have with people and the various events of the day. I have insomnia because I keep reliving my day in the evenings. My BF once pointed out that I must get exhausted because I have two lives: The one I live in the external world and the one I rehash privately. And it is like reliving my day. I get to an almost daydream like state, staring into middle distance, quietly mumbling to myself, and considering all the things I've said and thought about that day. (I know, I sound crazy) If I've had a bad day or I'm depressed then my rehashings are like an uncomfortable nightmare or rather daymare. I keep beating myself up for what I see as failings or screw ups. I keep trying to come up with ways of fixing the problems I see coming or the problems I've created from earlier that day.

I really need to learn to meditate.

Seconded. I must be crazy too because I also relive what's happened in the past, during nearly every waking hour. I'm surprised I'm not too screwed up. I can still go to sleep at night. Thank goodness I'm not conscious of my dreams, or I'd probably rehash my failures in my sleep as well.

 

[flow]

Thank goodness I don't dream, or I'd probably rehash my failures in my sleep as well.

Pffft! You DO dream, you just aren't remembering them. My dreams are often a lot more interesting then my days, I love thinking about them and trying to solve their mysteries..

You know, thinking can be a curse when you can't escape rethinking over things, but looking at the alternative, I'd rather overanalyze than overlook.

 

[RandomAspects]

Seconded. I must be crazy too because I also relive what's happened in the past, during nearly every waking hour. I'm surprised I'm not too screwed up. I can still go to sleep at night. Thank goodness I'm not conscious of my dreams, or I'd probably rehash my failures in my sleep as well.

I know what you're talking about, Ermine. I only manage 4 hours of sleep a night, and I can only remember a small handful of dreams per year (12 at most, last year, there were 8 only that I can recall). All of those managed to affect me for multiple days afterwards.

I've noticed that I always seem to be having conversations mentally, whether they're previous conversaitons or conversations I never plan on having. Sometimes I actually forget that I may have never had that conversation in the first place, after mentioning it (not the best thing to do).

@OP I guess that it depends what your definitions of strength and curse are, but I would say, in general, that I enjoy being far more thoughtful than most of the people around me. The only time I consider it a 'disadvantage' is when I am unable to stop nitpicking at my own faults, which can undermine nearly all self-confidence I may have.

 

[Infinite Regress]

I feel it is a curse when there is a demand for concentration and to be proactive. I've sometimes wasted too much time rehashing past experiences in my mind when that time should have been better spent attending to more important tasks.

Some activities that I pursue require a quiet mind, so you can see the conflict....

 

[echoplex]

Strength: It becomes quickly apparent what the essential qualities of something are, even when it's something unfamiliar. There's a natural inclination to understand something in the most appropriate and thorough way possible, while incorporating new data into that understanding whenever it arrives. Also, due to the system-scanning tendencies of the INTP, flaws are usually very easily found and fixed without compromise to the correct parts of the system. One tends to believe they always could be wrong, even when they know they're right. I realize that doesn't make sense.

Curse: Both S and F "activities" can become devoid of enjoyment, as Ti prefers to analyze endlessly, depriving the mind of fun for fun's sake. It is believed by many sources that sometime in the distant future, Ti will finally scientifically prove that fun is "okay" and the INTP will then be able to enjoy socializing. In the meantime, Ti will not let Fe enjoy any relationships without constant analysis, which is reportedly making others uncomfortable. Ne has attempted to rescue Fe from these conditions, but sadly the situation has escalated into a police standoff -- and Ti is the police. Fe will be spending the night in jail.

Si is hard at work printing "Free Fe" T-shirts.

 

[Ombat]

Ash, that's a wonderful analogy.
I go over and over and over the social interactions I have with people and the various events of the day. I have insomnia because I keep reliving my day in the evenings. My BF once pointed out that I must get exhausted because I have two lives: The one I live in the external world and the one I rehash privately. And it is like reliving my day. I get to an almost daydream like state, staring into middle distance, quietly mumbling to myself, and considering all the things I've said and thought about that day. (I know, I sound crazy) If I've had a bad day or I'm depressed then my rehashings are like an uncomfortable nightmare or rather daymare. I keep beating myself up for what I see as failings or screw ups. I keep trying to come up with ways of fixing the problems I see coming or the problems I've created from earlier that day.

I really need to learn to meditate.

This is why I wish I could shut off my brain. The majority of my time is thinking about how past events have unfolded, what I should have done differently, how it could have turned out better. And this wouldn't bother me so much if I actually learned something from it. Like you mention, I try to think of how I can do better next time, but I never actually apply any of the solutions I find, if I find any, which is the frusterating part.

Good luck with the meditation, really. I tried it for a while to improve my concentration but... I guess I just stopped doing it.

 

[warryer]

When I am forced to focus on the matter at hand ie: tests, sports, games... I am thankful that my mind is on my side. I even amaze myself sometimes.

I can remember one time when i was in 6th grade, our reading class was playing clue for whatever reason. We broke up into teams and played along with the video tape. We got cards with bits of information. It was supposed to take an hour but somehow in 15mins I pieced together these obscure facts and got that oh so satisfying 'finally! I pieced it together!' feeling Im sure you know what I mean.

In social situations, its a killer. I will take too long to respond because I have to walk all the way down the various aisles of my brain to find the perfect response. Not to mention like some have said before me, the pondering over interactions consumes me. I shut out the world and just think about the different scenarios. Even if I happen to be at a party I will just park somewhere and begin gathering my information.

Yes I like to tell stories

 

[anyaa]

I think rethinking gets me more joy [even in cases where it isn't necessary]...
Curse or Strength barely matters me....truly speakin...coz it gets me to things,ideas...some people are miles-miles away from...[which is why I would call it a strength..as a ans to ur question]..

 

[Beat Mango]

Strength: forming intellectual connections.

Curse: forming social connections. Potential ego inflation.

Btw I would have thought "blessing" is the better, what's the word, antonym? for curse. The blessing is that we can entertain ourselves, I guess.

 

[Luzian]

I'm starting to liken the INTP thought process to ... pouring water on a cracked sidewalk with a slight slope. You can watch the water trickle flow though every crack and nook... sometimes the single trickle breaks off and finds other paths to take resulting in several trickles. It can be rather slow sometimes, depending on the slope of the sidewalk, but if one just sits back and lets it happen it is absolutely fascinating to see where the end result of the water's journey is.

STFU

 

[Cogwulf]

STFU

 

[random extra #7]

I feel it's a curse when I have to make quick decisions.

It's a strength when I have time to plan out every scenario in my head and decide on which course of action to take.

 

[snowqueen]

Curse: Both S and F "activities" can become devoid of enjoyment, as Ti prefers to analyze endlessly, depriving the mind of fun for fun's sake. It is believed by many sources that sometime in the distant future, Ti will finally scientifically prove that fun is "okay" and the INTP will then be able to enjoy socializing. In the meantime, Ti will not let Fe enjoy any relationships without constant analysis, which is reportedly making others uncomfortable. Ne has attempted to rescue Fe from these conditions, but sadly the situation has escalated into a police standoff -- and Ti is the police. Fe will be spending the night in jail.

Si is hard at work printing "Free Fe" T-shirts.

so this is why all my relationships are doomed to failure?

I am beginning to wonder if becoming an academic is part of what's fucked up my life - my Ti is now dominating everything - I was a lot more fun when I was an arts administrator and potter..

Thanks for all the responses - they're fascinating reading - though uncomfortable too.

 

[warryer]

Why would it make you uncomfortable to be what/who you are? Only in the context of comparing yourself to others I can see this. There really is no logical reason for one to do this.

As for relationships, thanks to my intuition, I have a knack for saying the right thing.... that is until my ego takes over and starts spouting garbage. I spend hours and hours thinking about something I can do that would make her melt. The best part is that it works! You have to balance it out though dont give your significant other too much or they will grow addicted (or immune) to it.

Keep fighting the good fight.

 

[echoplex]

so this is why all my relationships are doomed to failure?

I am beginning to wonder if becoming an academic is part of what's fucked up my life - my Ti is now dominating everything - I was a lot more fun when I was an arts administrator and potter..

I don't know, but others have suggested before that Ne can sometimes serve as a poor man's Fe. Perhaps it is the key to Fe's "escape". Ti needs Ne for it's ideas. Perhaps one day the idea that Ti doesn't have to dominate everything will make it to Ti's desk (but will Ti ever find time to read it?). Or maybe Ti can learn to value relationships/feelings, even if it takes rigorous analysis to come to that inevitable conclusion?

But yeah, I tend to think that an INTP needs some non-Ti activities to balance things out. In the same way that an ESFJ needs some non-Fe time.

 

[Yellow]

I was being a tad facetious calling it a curse, but there are definitly some ups and downs to the constant thinking.


The Blessing

• You never (or rarely) make the same mistake twice because you have hashed everything out so thoroughly that the specific details of a past failure or mistake have been recognized and can be dealt with if they reappear.
• You can derive amazing insights from mundane experiences, because the constant ticking of the brain rarely allows anything go unanalyzed.
• You can appear brilliant and creative on a regular basis for thinking of soultions so quickly when really, you just had more time to think than others, because your thoughts dwell in the land of 'half-way there'. (that may not make sense, but its the best short explanation I've got at the moment).
• You can integrate vast amounts of information and apply it to the present situation or save it for later digestion.

The Curse

• You can often lose track of the 'here and now' because you are thinking about other things
• The solutions you come up with often work well, but you are never satisfied with them
• Your thoughts zoom in so many directions at once to solve a problem that you may not be able to explain your reasoning. Resulting in having to waste vast amounts of time explaining your solution and become frustrated because you want to move on, but no one else is ready.

 

[snowqueen]

^ yes that makes total sense to me, Yellow - thanks! especially the last point of the 'blessing' - that's what makes me look really good in meetings :-)

 

[Andy]

When something great happens to me, the first thing I ask myself is "Is it really that great?"
The most common answer after a long analysis is NO. I guess it's a good thing we are emotionally detached, most other people just wouldn't handle it. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Felan]

It's almost always a blessing for me.

There are times when it is a curse. The most common is when I'm a bunch of different projects are handed to me. I just absolutely suck at multi-tasking. For anyone multi-tasking is a huge time and efficiency loss, but (at least for me) it is absolutely paralytic. To take the sidewalk analogy its like trying have a channel for each and make sure that at no point do they cross paths, unless there is a gain to had from merging efforts. I have to be assertive about asking what one thing is the priority.

The other curse is when I encounter a problem, I have lots of potential solutions, but everything I try just doesn't get me over the hump. Worse yet is when I know there is a hacked craptastic way that will probably work but will come back to haunt me down the road. I really hate down the road issues, particularly when I can see it coming.

 

[transformers]

It's a curse. Being able to make quick decisions is in the long run more valuable (in MOST cases) than being able to make accurate, but slow decisions. Speed is critical here, and I think we INTP's tend to forget that.

 

[Yodon]

i find it very usefull, over the weekend i decided to upgrade my computer to windows 7 , i decided i wanted a full over haul so i spent a while backing up all precios cargo , downloading the drivers i would need , setting up the new raid array ect , everything to prepare, i dont think may other types can see into things with asmuch depth and clarity as we can , now everything on my new 64bit win 7 system is awesome.

we have to remember when to use and not to use our gift tho as it can be detrimentle using it at the wrong time

everything in moderation is good for you heheheh