INFJ?

[loveofreason]

I read in a description somewhere (forgive any poetic license - I'm too tired to search for the link again) that INFJs inhabit an "Inner World of Symbols" and that they're "intellectual".

What's it like to be an INFJ?

Does that (very) brief description resonate for any INTPs? It certainly did for me.

 

[ShaiGar]

I'll repost your thread at INFJs and link back to here. Hopefully you'll get some responses.

 

[Dissident]

What's it like to be an INFJ?

Does that (very) brief description resonate for any INTPs? It certainly did for me.

You are second guessing your type, arent you?

 

[gloomy-optimist]

I was re-routed here by ShaiGar after his post in the INFJ forum
Well, I guess what they say is true, but it sounds cooler than reality, I think. I, personally, am not some sort of clairvoyant weirdo or anything
However, I do make connections to things that other people don't seem to notice, and it's easy for me to understand how or why things work. I ask a lot of questions about the "universe," but I don't usually voice these or anything. I don't really feel the need to go spewing my emotions or thoughts to the world, or, at least, I don't when it's not the right time.
So, "inner world of symbols" and "intellectual" might be applicable to a certain degree, but, to me, it's more like an internal, many-layered meditation on life.
I hope that was helpful...?

 

[loveofreason]

I'll repost your thread at INFJs and link back to here. Hopefully you'll get some responses.

Thanks. I could have said "hey everyone, what do you think it's like to be an INFJ?" then we could have discussed hypothetical INFJ beingness, but the word from real living INFJs could be almost as much fun.

You are second guessing your type, arent you?

yep.

I was re-routed here by ShaiGar after his post in the INFJ forum
Well, I guess what they say is true, but it sounds cooler than reality, I think. I, personally, am not some sort of clairvoyant weirdo or anything
However, I do make connections to things that other people don't seem to notice, and it's easy for me to understand how or why things work. I ask a lot of questions about the "universe," but I don't usually voice these or anything. I don't really feel the need to go spewing my emotions or thoughts to the world, or, at least, I don't when it's not the right time.
So, "inner world of symbols" and "intellectual" might be applicable to a certain degree, but, to me, it's more like an internal, many-layered meditation on life.
I hope that was helpful...?

I could say those things apply to me also - need they be INFJ specific? (Except I do voice my questions about the universe - silently in text - and I positively have to not spew my emotions to the world until after I have objectified them and distanced myself from them, again through text.)

I'd like to hear from INTPs too, do you relate to what gloomy has said?.

Are INFJs typically emotionally reserved? Do you bottle emotions till long after their use-by dates? Do you dissect them until you can't feel them any longer, or keep them at bay for fear of them?

Thanks for answering.

 

[Decaf]

I will note that INFJs early on in life have a strong aversion to violence in any form (probably based on their near supernatural empathic intuition). Many carry that aversion most of their lives (they will not slap someone even if they deserve it... instead they take it personally and absorb all the bad emotions). I don't know if this part is universal, but INFJs are probably the most likely type of all of them to dedicate their lives to the betterment of mankind. They are also one of the introverted types least likely to be comfortable with long periods of solitude.

Does that help? I would appreciate if a real INFJ checked that stuff over though as it generalizes a bit.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Long post, bear with me:

(Except I do voice my questions about the universe - silently in text - and I positively have to not spew my emotions to the world until after I have objectified them and distanced myself from them, again through text.)

Are INFJs typically emotionally reserved? Do you bottle emotions till long after their use-by dates? Do you dissect them until you can't feel them any longer, or keep them at bay for fear of them?

I have difficulty voicing my opinions at any time where it wouldn't fit the situation, or where I would get an overly emotional response in return. However, I can portray my emotions much better through writing as well, and when I feel the situation fits, I have no secrets. The weird thing is, some people know some things about me, and other people know other things, because of this; it all depends on how my relationship with that person plays out.

I am pretty emotionally reserved, I suppose. I don't like it when my emotions get the better of me, and I try to stay out of conflicts. I get stressed easily, however, when I have to bottle up my emotions, but I don't like talking about them unless the time is just right, and that presents a few problems. That's why I like professional counseling; it's a non-judgemental environment. I do feel a rich connection to my emotions and emotional state, so I tend to try figure out why I have emotions, rather than over-analyze them, and leave it at that.

I will note that INFJs early on in life have a strong aversion to violence in any form (probably based on their near supernatural empathic intuition). Many carry that aversion most of their lives (they will not slap someone even if they deserve it... instead they take it personally and absorb all the bad emotions). I don't know if this part is universal, but INFJs are probably the most likely type of all of them to dedicate their lives to the betterment of mankind. They are also one of the introverted types least likely to be comfortable with long periods of solitude.

Yeah, I get upset with a lot of different types of violence. I'm a little better than I used to be, but I still maintain that there is no reason for it, and that there are much better ways to solve conflicts. I hate gore and horror movies (although I like action because it's not centered around torture, usually).
And as for the betterment of mankind...well, it wouldn't be too left of center for me to say that most of my goals probably have at least a little bit of a plan to help educate and improve the conditions of mankind, but I don't think that's applicable to everyone.

As for solitude...it's kind of a coin flip. With solitude for personal reflection, I can go for a very long time. Isolated solitude, without a way of breaking it, is difficult...it makes me feel like I've lost purpose, and I can get depressed and detached...

 

[Decaf]

Are INFJs typically emotionally reserved? Do you bottle emotions till long after their use-by dates? Do you dissect them until you can't feel them any longer, or keep them at bay for fear of them?

Oh, I should also note that my partner (INFJ) is very emotionally reserved around other people, but between the two of us is 99% of the time the one to force us to deal with emotional issues. Often she won't relent until I've cracked my logical analysis and dealt with the emotions directly. I generally don't like this, but I understand that its good for me, and as much as I would avoid it on my own, I'm at least objectively grateful.

That being said when I'm away and she needs to unleash her emotions, she has a hard time doing that with friends. I try to encourage her to do that, but she doesn't like placing the burden of caring for her on other people and dragging them down (though that may be more about insecurity than personality, but I thought I'd mention it in case its a common theme).

 

[gloomy-optimist]

That being said when I'm away and she needs to unleash her emotions, she has a hard time doing that with friends. I try to encourage her to do that, but she doesn't like placing the burden of caring for her on other people and dragging them down (though that may be more about insecurity than personality, but I thought I'd mention it in case its a common theme).

Yeah, I relate to that. I hate people worrying about me; it stresses me out a lot more than if I were to be left to sort through my emotions by myself. I can talk about them to someone who's more emotionally detached from my problems, so someone who's logical (but sympathetic) about it, because they don't add any more emotional weight, and help me clarify my own thoughts.

You're lucky that she confides in you. She really trusts you

 

[Agent Intellect]

my INFJ girlfriend has a strong need to be there for all of her friends. some people that she thinks are her friends pretty much just use her to bitch about their problems and spew their own emotions on her, and she allows them to (for some reason), but she doesn't like to talk about her own emotions. having to take on everyone elses bullshit while bottling her own emotions up really takes a toll on her after a while, too. and she abhors violent movies (the sight of blood, she claims, can make her physically ill).

 

[gloomy-optimist]

my INFJ girlfriend has a strong need to be there for all of her friends. some people that she thinks are her friends pretty much just use her to bitch about their problems and spew their own emotions on her, and she allows them to (for some reason), but she doesn't like to talk about her own emotions. having to take on everyone elses bullshit while bottling her own emotions up really takes a toll on her after a while, too. and she abhors violent movies (the sight of blood, she claims, can make her physically ill).

It can be very hard to say no sometimes, especially in situation such as that. It may be that she understands who her real friends are, at least a little bit, but it may still be difficult for her to turn down someone who "needs to talk to her."

If you wouldn't mine me making a suggestion, why don't you try exchanging notes? If she's bottling her emotions up all the time, that may be because she doesn't feel as if she can tell people without feeling like she's burdening them; I know any feeling of judgement, or a negative reactions of any sort, totally shuts me up.
But INFJs are usually very language-oriented people, and writing is considered one of our natural strong points (if I am not mistaken). I, personally, can say more in writing than I can to almost anyone's face because I can edit my thoughts and say what I need to on my own time, without risking emotional confrontation.
If you try to reach her in writing, you may get her to communicate more than she would otherwise...

 

[loveofreason]

I will note that INFJs early on in life have a strong aversion to violence in any form . . . absorb all the bad emotions

Reminds me of me as a child, except as an adult I am much more aware of my capacity for inflicting violence - I've been pushed too far too often. Now, as much as I despise myself for it, I will not only fight back but go overboard.

But absorbing all the bad emotions, I always did that. Even the ones no one would acknowledge were there. Especially the ones no one would acknowledge were there.

They are also one of the introverted types least likely to be comfortable with long periods of solitude.

Absolutely not me. I crave solitude above all else. Life only sucks when other people are involved. Solitude is perfect.

If she's bottling her emotions up all the time, that may be because she doesn't feel as if she can tell people without feeling like she's burdening them; I know any feeling of judgement, or a negative reactions of any sort, totally shuts me up.
But INFJs are usually very language-oriented people, and writing is considered one of our natural strong points (if I am not mistaken). I, personally, can say more in writing than I can to almost anyone's face because I can edit my thoughts and say what I need to on my own time, without risking emotional confrontation.

Again I relate to this. I don't want to burden others. I bottle everything up.

(More than one comment notes INFJs bottling things up, but so too do INTPs?)

I won't speak out about my feelings (how can I trust what I feel? I don't want to say something that isn't true. What if the other person becomes angry or violent?)

Writing is my only emotional outlet. Actually I'm moved by music too, but that has rarely been accessible to me, and certainly not in a personally creative sense.

hmmm...

 

[Agent Intellect]

a good way i've found to deal with my bottled emotions is to act them out in hypothetical situations in my head. i imagine myself having a conversation with someone about whatever is making me "feel" things, and it often times makes me less emotional, which is the state in which i usually attempt to remain.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Again I relate to this. I don't want to burden others. I bottle everything up.

(More than one comment notes INFJs bottling things up, but so too do INTPs?)

I won't speak out about my feelings (how can I trust what I feel? I don't want to say something that isn't true. What if the other person becomes angry or violent?)

Writing is my only emotional outlet. Actually I'm moved by music too, but that has rarely been accessible to me, and certainly not in a personally creative sense.

hmmm...

I think one of the reasons I bottle emotions up so much is because I don't want anyone to react to them, but also because I feel I can deal with them on my own. I usually do not feel overwhelmed by my emotions, and I understand where they come from. When it gets to the point where I DO need help in dealing with them...well, that's where the problem lies. From that point, I actively (mentally, not visibly) search for someone to talk to/relate to, but it can be very difficult to find the right person...
Otherwise, I am very in tune with my own emotions, and, somehow, with others' as well. It's very easy for me to understand and explain why people do things, for some reason :/

a good way i've found to deal with my bottled emotions is to act them out in hypothetical situations in my head. i imagine myself having a conversation with someone about whatever is making me "feel" things, and it often times makes me less emotional, which is the state in which i usually attempt to remain.

I do that a lot too :B Afterwards, I usually feel a little disappointed though...I like knowing and utilizing these techniques in real life, and it frustrates me when I don't know how to react in real life responses sometimes...

 

[Shaz]

I can relate to a lot of what has been written : aversion for violence (I save spiders trapped in the bathtube ), need for solitude like all introverts but in balance with interaction with people (not just anyone though, I need time with people I can truly exchange and grow with), fear or burdening other people with my negative emotions when they come up... Though I am allowing myself to share them more now and it brings positive results. I need a way to let them out though, generally by writing (which is also a great way to understanding them clearly) or drawing/painting. I am also learning to say no (very hard but necessary for my own health).

INFJs are so empathic it can sometimes be a burden to them I think.

 

[loveofreason]

How does one let out negative emotions for positive results?

Call me dim, but i just can't figure that one out. Life-long hermitage is a far more pleasant prospect than dealing with 'shit'.

 

[Waterstiller]

I'm rather new here and I've been questing for some answers. I've always tested INTP..

But this thread made me realize that I am likely a repressed INFJ. I related to the INFJ's in this thread very much; especially in regards to empathy. I also find it extremely difficult to express my own struggles and emotions because I feel that I'm burdening people with them. People tend to use me to solve all their problems, and in another life I was actually a youth pastor for a church as well as offering counsel over online forums. I'm happiest when helping a close friend work out their issues. I'm also vegetarian for largely ethical reasons.

Lately I've been extremely sad because the weight of all my problems finally caught up to me, and it nearly killed me to finally see a counselor to let some of it out. When I finally started coming out as transgender my world pretty much inverted; I started letting things in that I never could have before.

Could an INFJ who has had her(hir) extroverted feeling overly repressed test as an INTP? To be honest, I relate heavily with both the INTP and INFJ portraits, but INFJ seems to be my true personality. The T and P are always in the 30% range on tests though. Thoughts?

 

[NoID10ts]

This mbti stuff is new to me but I always test INTP but the T is very close to the middle and it was explained to me that I will show traits of both. I certainly relate to a good bit of the INTJ profile but the INTP profile fits me like hand and glove. When I first read up on it there was no question. Maybe some of you are close to the middle like I am and so there can be some gray area.

Maybe Decaf can explain that a little better and confirm or deny this. I am purely going off what my couselor told me.

 

[Thread Killer]

Dunno, but as an INTP/INFP/INFJ, I can relate to your (waterstiller's) post. Either the people who push the stereotype that INTPs are unfeeling, insensitive pricks are beyond wrong or I'm just as confused as you are on these matters.

 

[Decaf]

I'm rather new here and I've been questing for some answers. I've always tested INTP..

But this thread made me realize that I am likely a repressed INFJ. I related to the INFJ's in this thread very much; especially in regards to empathy. I also find it extremely difficult to express my own struggles and emotions because I feel that I'm burdening people with them. People tend to use me to solve all their problems, and in another life I was actually a youth pastor for a church as well as offering counsel over online forums. I'm happiest when helping a close friend work out their issues. I'm also vegetarian for largely ethical reasons.

Lately I've been extremely sad because the weight of all my problems finally caught up to me, and it nearly killed me to finally see a counselor to let some of it out. When I finally started coming out as transgender my world pretty much inverted; I started letting things in that I never could have before.

Could an INFJ who has had her(hir) extroverted feeling overly repressed test as an INTP? To be honest, I relate heavily with both the INTP and INFJ portraits, but INFJ seems to be my true personality. The T and P are always in the 30% range on tests though. Thoughts?

OK, some indicators that might help... there aren't many T vegetarians largely because "ethical reasons" is a phrase they don't use that often. Unless it has to do with murder or something so serious that it triggers their feeling function. A job like a youth pastor is rarely something an INTP would do because the benefits wouldn't outweigh the costs. They would study first and probably end up skipping youth pastor and moving on to pastor by the time they felt ready. There are some exceptions, but by and large that's the common theme.

Men traditionally are approved of when they exhibit T characteristics and disapproved of when they exhibit F characteristics. That leads to a lot of F men learning to be sub-par T's unfortunately. Its just not healthy to rely on a non-dominant function in a dominant way. Its especially bad for INFPs because that is opposite to the most highly regarded type in America, and especially in California, ESTJ.

So I wanted to talk about both INFJs and INFPs (if INTP sounded appealing, it might be more likely). I'm dating an INFJ and I can tell you from first hand experience that INTPs and INFJs are very different. What little I have heard makes me think that you might be option number three, though obviously that'll have to bear out on your reading the description.

INFJs introvert their intuition and extravert their feeling. That tends to mean they have an abnormally high need for socialization for an introvert, and even though they are creative people, they tend not to brainstorm with others. They much prefer to argue, sometimes aggressively if it deals with values. That is part of their strength, however. They feel pleasure from appreciation of their values and are highly motivated doers when it comes to championing the causes that best match their value system. Not as voraciously as ENFJs, but it often becomes a prominant part of their life.

INFPs are more like us, the INTP. We both extravert our intuition, making public discussion something of a hobby, and feeling a lot of pleasure from appreciation of our creativity. Having dominant introverted feeling means that their internal value system is both the most important thing to them, and the most mature of any other type, with the possible exception of ISFPs. They are not as outwardly stubborn about their values as INFJs, preferring to deal with them on their own. Its sometimes difficult to know what an INFP's values are unless you ask outright or gleen them from their interests. Hard to know, but they tend to develop strong friendships with others based on acceptance.

Obviously you should read descriptions written more completely, but what do you think?

This mbti stuff is new to me but I always test INTP but the T is very close to the middle and it was explained to me that I will show traits of both. I certainly relate to a good bit of the INTJ profile but the INTP profile fits me like hand and glove. When I first read up on it there was no question. Maybe some of you are close to the middle like I am and so there can be some gray area.

Maybe Decaf can explain that a little better and confirm or deny this. I am purely going off what my couselor told me.

Remember, for most intents and purposes, there is no middle. Yes there is overlap between functions, but I'll start a thread about that so we can talk about it more in depth. One of the greatest challenges of MBTI indicators is differentiating at the middle, so 95% of people who hit the middle head on, have a clear preference, it just wasn't born out in the test.

 

[Waterstiller]

Obviously you should read descriptions written more completely, but what do you think?

Giving it some more thought and reading, I think INFP is definitely in the running. Especially since it was my result just now on a mypersonality.info test.


I think INFP could be correct, but there are aspects of the descriptions I've read that seem completely off. I am naturally drawn to logic, critical thinking, technology, and engineering. I can also be completely impersonal when I need to be. Along with being a natural at counseling and at times cripplingly empathetic.

I'm going to need to spend some more time burying my head in reading about this. I appreciate your reply; it has given me a lot to think about.

 

[Aphasia]

... I'm getting odder and odder. I think I share characteristics with INFJ, which could explain some things (see the hedgehog dilemma). But I also seem to have avoidant personality disorder, so that may complicate things.

EDIT: Posted this before I can change my mind, or else I'll never say or admit it. If I can't tell the truth here, I can't do it anywhere.

EDIT 2: I'm suddenly thinking of Alcoholics Anonymous.

 

[loveofreason]

I'm so glad you posted that, Aphasia.

Seeing as you've confessed and we're here at Avoidants Anonymous, I'll also own up.

The degree to which I let my avoidant tendencies rule my life has waxed and waned, but over the years I've had two major and a whole slew of minor nervous breakdowns characterised by extremes of avoidance/anxiety (which in turn is due to? Sensitivity? Does sharing INFJ of INFP characteristics arise from environmental influences on an INTP core? Or is the INTP character a result of injury sustained to INFx??? How much overlap is perfectly normal - afterall, no type can claim exclusivity of character traits. We're all human. Now I'm just blathering - so confused about my type...)

Hedgehog dilemma? You mean you're so vulnerable that you're prickly and can't get close to people?

Don't answer that if you don't want to.

 

[Aurora]

Hey, I have some INFJ characteristics, apparently. I hate talking about my negative emotions with people because I feel like I'm burdening them and bringing them down with me. I repress all of my negative emotions and force myself to not let them affect my behavior or actions... until they're too much and I feel overwhelmed and break down.

I also don't like violence and can't stand the sight of blood or torture.

I also need socialization to feel happy and fulfilled; if I isolate too much I get depressed. I read that another INFP characteristic is a childlike sense of wonder at the world, which I have in abundance.

I definitely don't place much importance on ethics, though. I feel pretty much anything goes unless you're hurting another person.

 

[Decaf]

Hey, I have some INFJ characteristics, apparently. I hate talking about my negative emotions with people because I feel like I'm burdening them and bringing them down with me. I repress all of my negative emotions and force myself to not let them affect my behavior or actions... until they're too much and I feel overwhelmed and break down.

Actually, I think that last trait is more of an INTP trait than INFJ. They live with their feeling side exposed, so things don't build up very often. They can get that way when life repeatedly hits them over the head with non-acceptance, but otherwise I've found that INFJs don't bottle things up very well (the longest my partner has gone without telling me what's going on with her is 4 days. The longest I've gone is still counting).

 

[Waterstiller]

I think I figured out my type this morning when I stumbled upon this site which made things very clear. I'm certain I'm INxP. I tend to lean towards INFP presently, but in the past the T was dominant. I cannot tell if the F being (slightly) dominant right now is a result of being wounded of if it's my true nature.

So, what happens if the thick skin of the INTP finally breaks?

Decaf, you mentioned that you're still bottled up. Theoretically, what would happen if you burst?

 

[Decaf]

I think I figured out my type this morning when I stumbled upon this site which made things very clear. I'm certain I'm INxP. I tend to lean towards INFP presently, but in the past the T was dominant. I cannot tell if the F being (slightly) dominant right now is a result of being wounded of if it's my true nature.

So, what happens if the thick skin of the INTP finally breaks?

Decaf, you mentioned that you're still bottled up. Theoretically, what would happen if you burst?

SO THAT'S THE SITE!!!

Sorry, but putting 'x's in people's four letter code is my personal pet peeve. You have a preference, you have to make a decision. Obviously, making the right one is a difficult thing, especially when you've grown up being told to be something you're not. For the first 4 years I was studying MBTI I thought I was an INTJ, told everyone I was an INTJ. You can imagine how embarassing it was to tell people I was wrong and expect them not to discount my expertise. What I'm trying to say is that you have a preference, and as you use the tools that hopefully have been provided to you by learning about type you'll better be able to decide what it is the you truly prefer.

I'm not saying you can't use an 'x'. Go ahead, but please realize that it is a placeholder. There is overlap between the types, but that isn't a good place to start. Its a terribly place to start because it makes it terribly difficult to weed out 'shoulds'. Like the word suggests, 'shoulds' are the behaviors you have that do not support your preference. Like an introvert trying to be gregarious because it is more highly prized. A sensor trying to speak about abstract ideas because it makes others think he's smart. Its perfectly fine to do these things, but you need to know the personality behind it.

Obviously MBTI is not a cure-all. Not knowing your type does not significantly alter your life experience usually. Not knowing your real type CAN make it hard to use any of the tools it has to offer though. Suggestions on how specific types can interact in harmony, methods on getting yourself out of a rut. Having an X may feel like it allows you to have a more diverse personality, but most of the time it just makes things fuzzier. Thinkers often have strong principles, feelers make great scientists, Introverts represent a large proportion of politicians, Extraverts have written some wonderful novels, Sensors can be wizards at theory, etc, etc. Those are al applications, not origin. Your four letter code does not decide what you can and can not do. It, at best, helps you figure out how you can accomplish what you want to do and be happy.

Sorry... I've nearly worn a hole in my soapbox I use it so much. Its my passion, so I guess I get a little passionate.

Oh, and as far as my comment about not unbottling... When INTPs have emotional 'talks' they often find themselves in a state where they start to share the emotional state of the person they're talking to. This can be a problem for a number of reasons, but one major one is that when an INTP shares themselves, the other person (in this case an INFJ) starts to feel better. That feeling transfers over and the emotional motivation I need to expose everything I'm feeling fades. The experience leaves me feeling good, emotionally drained, but the things I have to say that would take the conversation a step further don't get said. Its not that I have a bunch of cumulative pressure built up as much as a few things I never have the <enter excuse> to share. Being as unfamiliar with the dynamics of my emotional state as I am that often feels like a good thing as sometimes I feel great in the relationship and those things I think should be said, don't even feel true anymore. But they come back. Its a frustrating cycle, and not one I know how to resolve as of yet.

 

[James Black]

I'm not a big fan of x's either, for some reason.
If I had to use an x, it would definitely be at the intuitive/sensing area. IxTP. >.< Although some tests might place me as INTx, I'm positive I'm Perceiving, not Judging, and I'm not exactly sure if I'm Sensing or Intuitive, but I do tend to lean more towards intuition, even if only by a bit. Hence, I refer to myself as INTP... Not to mention that most of the personality explanations of an INTP fit me perfectly. Plus, if I want to explain who I am to someone, through use of MBTI, "IXTP" or "INTX" (or god forbid, IXTX) just won't get the point across. They could google (or I could try to find a link) and the information they'd find, if any, wouldn't be nearly as useful as information gathered from searching for an actual type.

In ending, I suppose, to make short of all the mumbo jumbo I've stated -- The idea of the test, the idea of finding your type, seems to be to find out who exactly you are. Picking an X seems like you're cheating yourself, shorting yourself some little bit of understanding.

 

[Decaf]

Something I didn't talk about but really is the fuel for my furor... the four letter code you get is only a representation that helps break down the Jungian functions you use.

INTP = Dominant Introverted Thinking, Auxiliary Extraverted Intuition

When you throw X's in the mix, you can't do that. A letter in one direction or the other makes such a massive difference often that there's no point in using what is essentially the heart of personality type theory.

 

[Waterstiller]

SO THAT'S THE SITE!!!

I'm not saying you can't use an 'x'. Go ahead, but please realize that it is a placeholder.

Sorry if I wasn't clear; I came up with the x (as more or less a placeholder) on my own. Unfortunately, that site isn't the culprit.

I really liked how you worded the 'should' behaviors; I'm here mainly to weed those out. I would like to resolve the fuzziness above all else. I think it tends to rest on this question: Do I use feelings to serve logic or do I use logic to serve my feelings. Does it change depending on the decision? How do I go about figuring this one out?

Oh, and as far as my comment about not unbottling... When INTPs have emotional 'talks' they often find themselves in a state where they start to share the emotional state of the person they're talking to. This can be a problem for a number of reasons, but one major one is that when an INTP shares themselves, the other person (in this case an INFJ) starts to feel better. That feeling transfers over and the emotional motivation I need to expose everything I'm feeling fades. The experience leaves me feeling good, emotionally drained, but the things I have to say that would take the conversation a step further don't get said. Its not that I have a bunch of cumulative pressure built up as much as a few things I never have the <enter excuse> to share. Being as unfamiliar with the dynamics of my emotional state as I am that often feels like a good thing as sometimes I feel great in the relationship and those things I think should be said, don't even feel true anymore. But they come back. Its a frustrating cycle, and not one I know how to resolve as of yet.

Wow. Thanks for that analysis; I can really relate and it seems that this is where the 'counselor' in me comes from. What would happen if you tried to actively force yourself to go to that next step? How would it affect your personality(if at all) to have a greater awareness of your own feelings(IE feeling so much that you are moved to tears)? Would any changes be temporary and over time revert back, or would this create permanent changes in your personality once you allow these feelings?


And now I'm totally hijacking this thread. Yikes! Perhaps someone could start a new one? I'm really bad at starting threads; I end up creating essay questions.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i think people put too much trust in the descriptions about the types without just thinking of the functions themselves. while a lot of the descriptions have accurate portrayals of the type, i've never found one that was 100% true. they're more of a generalization. the actual descriptions of the types would probably be more accurate, as far as your default functions (introverts get their energy from within, intuition is how they see the world, make decisions based on thinking etc) go.

just by reading the INTP part of the forum one can tell that, even though theres a lot of similarities between all of us that none of us are the same. one has to take into account the different upbringings (in different countries sometimes) and how those pressures can change the way you act, and different function maturities and so forth.

 

[fullerene]

I'm really bad at starting threads; I end up creating essay questions.

essay in that we have to write a lot to answer? I'm pretty sure those are what I think of as "good threads." Ask away.

 

[Jesin]

essay in that we have to write a lot to answer? I'm pretty sure those are what I think of as "good threads." Ask away.

Yeah. Even if you ask it wrong, someone will likely grab your question and try rewording it until you have a good question. Just go ahead.

 

[Waterstiller]

That's good to know. My questions seem irrelevant now, but I'm sure I'll have more in the future.

I'm INTP. Both my mom(INFP) and my sister(ISTJ) who know me best had no problem helping me sort it out. I'm far from a natural F; though, I have felt a *ton* of pressure to be one. Which makes me question whether or not an individual is best suited to figure out their personality type on their own since it can be extremely hard to distinguish the "should" behavior from the truly dominant. In my case, mixed opinions were helpful.

One thing that still escapes me is how I can be so empathetic at times.

Edit: I should lurk more. This thread helped a lot.

 

[fullerene]

I'm actually very similar with J/P and I/E... even N/S to an extent, although that was only because I was so N I was doing things like walking into traffic and stuff because I wasn't paying attention. My ideas are if you're under a ton of pressure to be something and you're still quite noticeably something else, you're definitely the opposite of what everyone's pushing you to be. My parents basically equated J-ness with thought/maturity, and even after growing up (19 now) I still have mostly P characteristics, and the J-pushing just became an area of tension. If you're not how your environment raised you, it's pretty likely that you're what you turned out to be.

 

[James Black]

>.< One thing I've noticed (cryptonia's post made me think of this) is that I'm very INTP, obviously enough, (which is why I'm here ) but sometimes I'll act a bit more SF than NT. I'll act the "SF" part when I have to to get through the day without the annoying random hassle that comes with being NT, but when something bothers me enough, or something seems way off-base, I speak out my real thoughts -- those depicted by my normally NT self.

I've slowly started to stop the "acting" however. >.<

 

[loveofreason]

Decaf is an absolute gemfield.

Actually, I think that last trait is more of an INTP trait than INFJ. They live with their feeling side exposed, so things don't build up very often. They can get that way when life repeatedly hits them over the head with non-acceptance, but otherwise I've found that INFJs don't bottle things up very well (the longest my partner has gone without telling me what's going on with her is 4 days. The longest I've gone is still counting).

INFJs can't let a few days pass without emotional disclosure? Egad, I don't think I've ever openly told someone in my life what's 'going on' for me emotionally. Not even my mother. If I'm dragged kicking and screaming to the point where I have to say something, I go for the closest approximation or deflect the reason onto a red herring so that the truth that matters ultimately to me is still safe (and undisclosed).

Oh, and as far as my comment about not unbottling... When INTPs have emotional 'talks' they often find themselves in a state where they start to share the emotional state of the person they're talking to. This can be a problem for a number of reasons, but one major one is that when an INTP shares themselves, the other person (in this case an INFJ) starts to feel better. That feeling transfers over and the emotional motivation I need to expose everything I'm feeling fades. The experience leaves me feeling good, emotionally drained, but the things I have to say that would take the conversation a step further don't get said. Its not that I have a bunch of cumulative pressure built up as much as a few things I never have the <enter excuse> to share. Being as unfamiliar with the dynamics of my emotional state as I am that often feels like a good thing as sometimes I feel great in the relationship and those things I think should be said, don't even feel true anymore. But they come back. Its a frustrating cycle, and not one I know how to resolve as of yet.

This precisely describes what happens for me. As soon as the other person is relieved, I feel like I've been through the wringer but otherwise OK (yay - disaster averted - the world won't end today!!!) and there's simply no more motivation to disclose. I forget what was destroying me inside, it never gets said and lies dormant until the next time. It gets ridiculously harder every time too, because to own up to a cycle of ill feeling that started with the most innocuous thing ten years ago - that seems ludicrous.

I simply end relationships to get out of the cycle with any particular person. Good advice, no?

So while I think my internal world may feel remarkably like an INFJ's world, my functional way of dealing with it is INTP.

Hmm.. thinking now that there are areas of life in which I feel cumulative pressures, but that's connected to not getting the solitude I need.

 

[Decaf]

INFJs can't let a few days pass without emotional disclosure?

I should specify that that's true IF the INFJ has someone to confide in. Its one of the reasons that INFJs that grow up in poorly supportive homes take to dating much earlier, in order to find that person. INTPs take to dating... whenever, usually it takes a while to feel like we can be bothered.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I should specify that that's true IF the INFJ has someone to confide in. Its one of the reasons that INFJs that grow up in poorly supportive homes take to dating much earlier, in order to find that person. INTPs take to dating... whenever, usually it takes a while to feel like we can be bothered.

sometimes i still feel like its almost too much to be bothered with. life is a lot simpler when i only have to worry about myself. i wonder about the feelings of "love" sometimes. people say opposites attract (which is certainly true with me and my girlfriend) which makes me think that relationships are simply ones selfish need to "complete" themselves. in many cases, people hold their partner to a standard they don't hold themselves to. they want their partner completely, 100% devoted to them. in some less mature relationships, people will even forbid their partner to have any social interactions besides the ones associated with themselves.

in a lot of cases, i don't know if two people love each other as much as they need each other to help with their own shortcomings.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Okay, I was on vacation the last couple of days, and this conversation really seemed to take off

But I have to agree with a lot of what was said; INFJs (at least in my case) do LIKE to talk about their feelings. In fact, I get stressed if I don't have someone to talk to. I'm very picky about it, though; I don't tell everyone everything, unless they are very important to me. It's either the right person....or at the right time with someone that seems to be open-minded enough.

I guess what you could say is that INFJs are a bit more....complicated, but I use the term very lightly. I guess it's that I have a different way of doing things than the majority of people around me; I am introverted and need my alone time or I get stressed, but I also need to socialize or else I feel alienated. It confuses some people who know me well.
It's just that I don't get to know people easily; I like making friends, but I do so usually with a 3rd party because I find it difficult to approach people. And even when I get to know someone, it takes a long time for them to get to know me; they may know certain sides of me and my viewpoints, but for some reason I react differently to different people; I'm true to myself and them, but it comes in pieces, as appropriate for our relationship. They know part of me, but they don't always get the whole picture....
Only few people are really close to me because of that.
(By the way, to clarify, it's not a self-made, emotionally-protecting "mask" concept; it's more just a natural way of socializing. I have no secrets that I am not willing to tell; it's just that different people know different secrets)
No matter what though, it's not that I don't want to get to know or talk to people. It's just that I can be sensitive to judgement, and I'm also pretty self-fulfilled, so most of the time basic contact is enough....

I get the feeling like I'm not answering much, so if there's anything else that anyone's doubting on....

 

[fullerene]

Decaf, is there any way you can shadow function only one of your primary axis ones? Judging by some of this, I'd almost say that (if it's possible) I'd be a Ti-Fe rather than Ti-Ne. I have a feeling that's just butchering the MBTI theory, but I certainly like to sit and talk about feelings much more than any other INTPs here do (besides maybe LoR)... although I much prefer it if they're other peoples' and I get some breaks so I don't get overloaded.

I'd almost want to order my functions Ti-Fe-Ne-Si, or maybe even Ti-Fi-Ne-Se... and I know you said unhappy people can sometimes shift and try to use their 3rd/4th functions as the primary axis... is it possible to only replace one of them?

 

[Decaf]

I get the feeling like I'm not answering much, so if there's anything else that anyone's doubting on....

I'm no sure what the question was but that could have been said verbatim by my partner. She reacts just like that and because of that has a very difficult time moving from place to place. To me its an adventure because everything I really need I carry with me in my head, but to her, the social network of interdependence she builds has a lot of value to her. She always feels like she needs to take a piece of it with her or it'll be too hard.

 

[Decaf]

Decaf, is there any way you can shadow function only one of your primary axis ones? Judging by some of this, I'd almost say that (if it's possible) I'd be a Ti-Fe rather than Ti-Ne. I have a feeling that's just butchering the MBTI theory, but I certainly like to sit and talk about feelings much more than any other INTPs here do (besides maybe LoR)... although I much prefer it if they're other peoples' and I get some breaks so I don't get overloaded.

I'd almost want to order my functions Ti-Fe-Ne-Si, or maybe even Ti-Fi-Ne-Se... and I know you said unhappy people can sometimes shift and try to use their 3rd/4th functions as the primary axis... is it possible to only replace one of them?

No, I don't believe its possible to replace them. What I believe IS possible is to form a working relationship. For starters, you couldn't operate if both of your dominant functions were judging functions like T and F. You wouldn't take in information in any effective way. Eventually your judgments would start departing from reality, or you'd get super depressed because there's no new information coming in to make judgments about.

So remember, Feeling is not emotions. Its a rational decision making process that deals in value judgments and subjective analysis. For Thinking to deal with emotions is not such a foreign thing to happen. One of the biggest reasons dominant thinkers especially operate "super-objectively" is because they feel so uncomfortable with their emotions (something that feelers feel more comfortable dealing with simply because it is more part of the subjective experience). Emotions are biological cues, not functions. The question is, how do you work with your emotions?

Do you process them as a condition that you experience or as part of the experience you live? That sounds really confusing and I promise I'll try to come up with a better way to expressing what I'm thinking, but I believe that thinkers are perfectly able, once they've gotten used to doing it, deal with their emotions without stepping outside their comfort zone. You don't need to stop being a thinker to deal productively with what you're "feeling".

Oh, and I've been reading some more and I think I may have attached the word shadow function inappropriately. Let's stick with calling them the inferior functions or tertiary and inferior function until I figure out where I went wrong (the reference I used referred to the shadow functions as the same as the functions we use, but reversed in orientation. Its not part of the official theory, but it seems to be the most prevalent use of the term "shadow function")

 

[fullerene]

gotcha, ok thanks. See, I definitely think of them as a condition that happens, but I'm pretty sure that it's more accurate to be an integral part of experience. The thinking mode is definitely more natural... I was just curious because I thought I had seen a couple things about Fe relating to "comfortable dealing with feelings." That is almost certainly me using the descriptions of websites to fill in for Jung's (or whoever invented the functions) original theory. I feel like I should have been able to see through that, because nobody can be truly separate from/block their feelings, which is what someone with an Fi function would have to do if Fe "governed" talking about them, but I think that was just me being dumb.

 

[Decaf]

but I think that was just me being dumb.

Yeah, stop being dumb Crypt

No, I think everyone starts off with a very blocky idea of what personality theory says. That's why so many people abandon it saying "it just doesn't adequately describe the complexity of people." And to be perfectly frank it doesn't, but it gives a lot of good, useful approximations. As you study it the blocks turn into statues. I suppose its like anything worth studying, like the piano. Chip away till you like what you see.

 

[Aphasia]

Let's see. Back from a 3-day self isolation thing, and I just remembered that I got a thirty-something for F/T and a 16 (or so) for P/J in a test.

And am I avoidant? I didn't post here for 3 days because I felt sick at the thought of logging on here (I still feel a lttle ill posting this). I suppose that means I am mentally ill.

 

[loveofreason]

The necessity (security) of social relationships doesn't really sound like me. My life-long fantasy has been to live as a hermit in a cave on a hill. But I wonder...

what exactly would a deeply wounded INFJ look like? I know some comments have been made, but to specifically answer the question, imagine if the INFJ had been wounded from the very start, right at birth. (And this would assume that type is hard-wired, which is by no means certain, but for the sake of the question pretend that it is.)

Aphasia, anything I could think of saying sounds trite. If I said the interface of the inner and outer worlds sometimes gets too sore, sometimes too numb, sometimes too amorphous; too abstract; too bleached; too saturated or too rarefied, would any of that come close to what you're feeling when you ask "Am I avoidant?"

 

[Decaf]

Let's see. Back from a 3-day self isolation thing, and I just remembered that I got a thirty-something for F/T and a 16 (or so) for P/J in a test.

And am I avoidant? I didn't post here for 3 days because I felt sick at the thought of logging on here (I still feel a lttle ill posting this). I suppose that means I am mentally ill.

My first thought when I read this is that I feel that way sometimes too. I probably wouldn't characterize it as feeling ill, but feeling an odd uncomfortableness with something I normally enjoy. Many times when I log on feeling that way I read the first two lines of a post and get frustrated and close the window.

Do I think that's mentally ill? No. Its a natural response when a person is not meeting all of their psychological needs. People need external stimulation, even introverts, but when the world around them either gives it to them in an unsuitable form (perhaps how you feel towards how you are able to extravert yourself on this forum) or withholds the necessary "carrot" the reaction is to force yourself to change things. Its not a particularly productive method of coping, but neither is freezing when fight or flight kicks in and we all know that happens sometimes.

Of course, take my opinion with a grain of salt because I am terribly frustrated by the tendency of the psychological community to pathologize everything that isn't shared by every other individual. From a type perspective that feels destructive. Rather than try to figure out what someone can do to help themselves, they'll soon have you on medication for the rest of your life.

My advice would be to explain how to feel to an older person of a different type (preferably one skilled in what you are lacking in your life). A counselor is usually a good choice. Advice can help you fix destructive habits. Medication adjusts your brain so that you don't notice your destructive habits anymore. Or worse it changes how your brain works and you become (even ever so slightly) a different person. Some people don't mind because they believe their actual selves to be unsatisfactory, but you will only be your best if you are yourself.

I'm sorry if I always jump straight to sounding like I'm right and the other perspective is wrong. I fully accept that my entire view of human psychology could be wrong and that the current cultural perspective of the psychology community could be the best way to deal with things, but I don't think so. I think I'm right and it tears me up inside that I can't help the millions of people taking mind altering drugs for conditions that represent the stress we go through that allows us to grow and mature.

If you're feeling unusually frustrated with your introverted nature it means your brain is trying to force you to engage your extraverted side more often. It might be signalling to you that its time to expand your horizons.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

The necessity (security) of social relationships doesn't really sound like me. My life-long fantasy has been to live as a hermit in a cave on a hill. But I wonder...

what exactly would a deeply wounded INFJ look like? I know some comments have been made, but to specifically answer the question, imagine if the INFJ had been wounded from the very start, right at birth. (And this would assume that type is hard-wired, which is by no means certain, but for the sake of the question pretend that it is.)

I guess it kind of depends. When I get stressed, I become more isolated and critical. I get quick to anger, and sometimes I even get physically sick. I get stressed fairly easily, actually, because there's a certain balance between "my" world and the "outside" world that can be a bit difficult to maintain, which is why I can only have so much socialization, even though I do like people.

If I am depressed, or isolated for too long, I get a little sick too. I don't like doing things that I did before, and I kind of get lost in little meaningless projects without taking on big responsibilities. I need people when I'm like that, but I only relate my needs to a few people. It's kind of difficult to describe.

 

[Decaf]

@gloomy - How do you get yourself out of a funk like that?