Do you "dumb" yourself down?

[beastie]

Do others find themselves "dumbing" down their conversations with others just to participate in conversations at social gatherings?
Usually I find myself standing with a drink in hand with a non intentional, bland look on my face (Ive been told to smile or been asked what's wrong) and feel like I should be participating - I am often enjoying myself to some extent but don't feel like I should be standing there grinning like the Cheshire cat.
Then, drumming up some inane conversation, usually based on asking questions and sounding interested in the person I am speaking to, I end up creating an impression that I am someone who is passive and end up with someone making stupid remarks to/at me for the rest of the night. If I add something intelligent to the conversation it quickly becomes stilted. My husband says I take a long time to get to know properly and "most" people just like to banter about trivial things. Is he right and do any others have similar problems with this?

 

[Kassie]

I don't often join in on conversations with my friends unless they direct a question or comment at me. Some of the people I am friends with can handle it when I feel like discussing some random and slightly insane idea, but most of them will just continue to discuss the pointless events of school and ignore it, or they will just look at me with a confused expression. So most of the time I just sit with them and either listen if something in they say interests me or just daydream about other things.

Lately, however, I'm finding that more people who I rarely talk to or just met have been coming up to me and talking to me about other kids or some other such nonsense. It bores me out of my mind, and I'm not sure why they think they should come to me, since I rarely speak out at all.

 

[Death]

First word that came to my mind when I saw the title of this thread, duhhhh........

 

[GarmGarf]

Nope; I feel that there is no need to "dumb myself down". The most intelligent humans (not that I am necessarily one) aren't really that more intelligent than the average ones (i.e: the intelligence deviation for humans is rather small, universally). Humans are intelligent creatures.

Any human I talk to, unless they are very young and/or have a mental disability of a certain degree, should be able to comprehend anything I have to say, provided they know enough data on the subject. If they don't have enough data, well I can improvise, and state that they don't have enough knowledge (in a non-condescending manner), and it might be difficult to explain, but I still usually manage to explain the gist of a concept. Furthermore, Wikipedia states:

INTPs organize their understanding of any topic by articulating principles, and they are especially drawn to theoretical constructs. Having articulated these principles for themselves, they can demonstrate remarkable skill in explaining complex ideas to others in simple terms, especially in writing. On the other hand, their ability to grasp complexity may also lead them to provide overly detailed explanations of "simple" ideas, and listeners may judge that the INTP makes things more difficult than they are. To the INTP, however, this is incomprehensible: They are merely presenting all the information.

Since I don't have a habit of "dumbing myself down", many individuals may perceive me to be intelligent, but if the subject of that comes up, I tend to belittle myself and convey that something else would be causing the difference in pseudo-intellectualism (personality type, basically).

 

[preilemus]

Hehe yes i dumb myself down to some extent.

The very first time i did it was in first grade. I was probably the smartest person in the class, and showed prospects for being bumped up a grade (which i eventually was), but there was also an autistic kid in our class. I noticed how he got attention from all the teachers for pretty much the whole school day, and i became jealous of the attention. Soon enough, i was acting out, being intentionally stupid, anything I could think of to get attention. At that age, there isnt a whole lot of prejudice against the smart guy, so my intentions for this werent exactly typical (I think). This also makes me wonder if im really an introvert, seeing as my natural tendency in social situations is to seek attention (half of the time. Im quite content to sit there and listen too, when I dont know most ofl the people im talking with. Then again, maybe its just shyness?)

Naturally, my intelligence didnt disappear, so when kids started disliking the smart ones, i more or less resorted to the same tactic, and have been doing so since 5th grade.

 

[Ermine]

I don't dumb myself down per se. I retain my extensive vocabulary when talking to anyone unless I'm talking to a little kid, the mentally disabled, or someone who doesn't speak English well. I won't deny being smart, and I won't deny that I am who I am. However, for the sake of conversation, I won't bring up an intellectual subject if I know that the other person wouldn't be interested.

 

[nickgray]

Yeah, when you notice the "similarity" between the state of alcohol intoxication and the life cycle of a star and then start to develop ideas about Red Giant state being extremely intoxicated, a Pulsar is while one vomits extraordinary amounts of... uh, vomit, a Supernova is, well, you get the point. These kind of ideas, for some strange reason, seem weird, really weird to a lot of people. So I try not get too excited while talking to friends

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Dumbing down is counter productive I've learned. If people can't handle your intellect or weirdness, is it really worth maintaining the friendship? If you always be yourself, you might find the best friend you will ever make as that person will see the true you and be drawn to you. I can imagine such advice would be hard on younger members (student in high school mostly) but it can be very effective in college to be yourself as you might then find your proper peer group.

Am I rambling? I feel very dizzy today....

 

[Vrecknidj]

I was at a party this weekend, noticed a pattern of circular stones at the base of the host's deck and said "That's a Pythagorean Tectractys!" And later I mentioned how 11 years ago at my anniversary party I was composing encomiums to the stars.

Sometimes I have to explain myself, but, when a thought occurs to me that I want to share, I share it, as I thought it (usually) even if it requires explication.

That said, I find that generally folks like friendly people and don't like it when others make them feel foolish, and most folks REALLY don't like people who "act smart," and so I tend to fit such comments within a broader context of making people feel comfortable around me, and making friends first.

Dave

 

[snowqueen]

Do others find themselves "dumbing" down their conversations with others just to participate in conversations at social gatherings?
Usually I find myself standing with a drink in hand with a non intentional, bland look on my face (Ive been told to smile or been asked what's wrong) and feel like I should be participating - I am often enjoying myself to some extent but don't feel like I should be standing there grinning like the Cheshire cat.
Then, drumming up some inane conversation, usually based on asking questions and sounding interested in the person I am speaking to, I end up creating an impression that I am someone who is passive and end up with someone making stupid remarks to/at me for the rest of the night. If I add something intelligent to the conversation it quickly becomes stilted. My husband says I take a long time to get to know properly and "most" people just like to banter about trivial things. Is he right and do any others have similar problems with this?

I think your husband is right - at social gatherings most people do like to banter about trivial things. I think the INTP desire to be (nearly) constantly engaged in intense meaningful discussion is pretty unique. The only times I can step out of that with people is with those with whom I have exhausted the intense meaningful discussion for the time being, therefore I like them and we probably understand each other and then I will go into bantering mode but it's not your usual small talk, it's usually fairly rude and sharp to and fro-ing designed to make us both laugh till our stomachs hurt.
Or crazy mixed up random ideas - making mad connections which either make you laugh or suddenly seem remarkably interesting (like the drunk star theory above)

I'm not sure that describing what you do as 'dumbing down' is helpful though because it implies that they are not intelligent, simply because they are engaged in small talk. I have observed many extremely intelligent and intellectual people at work (I work in a university for those that don't know) perfectly capable of engaging in social trivia so I think it's more to do with an ability or even a liking of that kind of social interaction. I simply don't like it and I'm not particularly good at it.

 

[beastie]

Thanks for your replies. I guess I should elaborate...
Usually when I ask questions I am actually seeking information because I find most people, their lives etc quite interesting. Its just that the conversation becomes quite stilted due to lack of elaboration (or something) i guess. I dunno - its confusing to me.
Also I treat everyone with respect and dont judge - I guess I would just like the same in return.

 

[merzbau]

one thing i often find myself dumbing down is the kind of music i make. even if people seem eager to know.. i've tried to explain it over the years, but it really is like trying to tell a polar bear about the bahamas 99% of the time.

 

[Yellow]

I think I tend to skip small talk altogether because of how disappointing it is. Especially with the traditional, "hi, how are ya?". I don't want a canned response and I don't want to be ignored when I asnwer. So I often say screw it (I keep that part to myself usually). I'm not accomodating in conversations with others at all, unless I have a real reason to be. It has worked out remarkably well for me and I am unsure as to why... there are a few who get a bit peeved, and they quickly exit my little world.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I spent so many years dumbing myself down that I am one of the more stupid INTP types. It seems like everything that I know is useless. I can't make any money yet. I haven't had a date in years. Haven't had a female take interest in me in years. No job in months. What the hell is the point of all this? Why am I allowed to live and be so useless? Everyone else seems useless too. All females are whores to some degree from what I can tell. If you don't have money, not outgoing and you are a guy that is over 21 no female will ever want anything to do with you. period. I wish I could even afford the little things to make myself happy. I could go pick up some alcohol right now and spend the last of my money to get some temporary relief but what good will that do me in a couple days when it runs out? College always depresses the fuck out of me with all the really pretty girls that I would love to talk to if I ever had anything interesting to talk about. I'm not a small talker. Being introverted is useless to me. Anxiety has screwed me out of 90% of the enjoyment I could be getting out of life. Wish I could just learn to live/enjoy the moment like all the S types.

 

[uth]

I definitely do dumb myself down to appear more personable and approachable. Also if I'm in a discussion with someone that about a topic I know alot about, I try to resist the temptation to act like a know-it-all.

 

[Trebuchet]

I dumb myself down much of the time, but I think Inappropriate Behavior is correct, and it isn't a good idea.

When I was a kid, I did so in order to make them stop calling me "computer" and make me more popular. It didn't work.

When teaching software to professional accountants, I once was ordered by my boss not to reveal that I had a degree in physics, since it would intimidate the students. I wish now I hadn't complied.

Among my local moms, I can dumb myself down all I want, and I still come across like an alien. At a MOMS Club luncheon recently, we had a fundraiser with raffle tickets. They were 12 for $10. I handed over a twenty and asked for "2 dozen" and they all acted like I was putting on airs or trying to trick them with the math, and the one with the tickets told me I'd have to tell her how many that was. Lately, I have just tried to accept that they think I am weird, and not worry about it too much. It is hard.

I am convinced that dumbing myself down does nothing to improve my happiness, success, or likability. I still do it, but I am trying to quit.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I wish I could escape this stupid person's paradise called america someday.

 

[Ermine]

Among my local moms, I can dumb myself down all I want, and I still come across like an alien. At a MOMS Club luncheon recently, we had a fundraiser with raffle tickets. They were 12 for $10. I handed over a twenty and asked for "2 dozen" and they all acted like I was putting on airs or trying to trick them with the math, and the one with the tickets told me I'd have to tell her how many that was. Lately, I have just tried to accept that they think I am weird, and not worry about it too much. It is hard.

I am convinced that dumbing myself down does nothing to improve my happiness, success, or likability. I still do it, but I am trying to quit.

Absolutely pathetic. Is it really intellectual to know how to multiply? Scary...

 

[bdubs]

I don't know if I dumb myself down for others, but I tend to stop offering any meaningful feedback when the same person repeatedly forces me into uninteresting conversation. I have several old standbys like "fair enough" and other similar phrases that I use to indicate that I am still listening to what the other person has to say but I don't really understand what I am supposed to glean from the talk.

 

[Zaltana]

I have learned to dumb myself down in appropriate situations, such as getting to know new people. However it's often a futile effort as the only way I know how to contribute to conversations is talking about the weird obscure things I am interested in which usually results in weird faces and avoiding me. I have come to accept that I will be perceived as the annoying narcissistic bitch who is quick to correct. I think exposing others to this gradually helps

However there are just some times I cannot help myself.

I work with a young women who was absent the day brains were handed out. She has been reading books on various topics in order to expand her mind and asked for a some advice on some books to read from another coworker. She then revealed she was trying to read up on quantum physics but had been unsuccessful in locating books in her library or book stores new age section. In the midst of laughing I told her she should try the science section. The best part was she couldn't understand why I thought it was funny.

 

[Kassie]

When I was a kid, I did so in order to make them stop calling me "computer" and make me more popular. It didn't work.

In elementary school, the other kids would always call me "encyclopedia" because I aced our vocab and won every spelling contest. They weren't being mean, it was just for a laugh and we all had funny names for each other. We had a kid named Nile who got the worst of the names, but we never meant to be mean to each other. The nice thing was I don't think they thought I was strange so much as they were amazed at me (I don't mean to sound conceited, that's just what their reactions appeared like to me.) They never rejected me for being different, and I had a lot of friends.

 

[Trebuchet]

Absolutely pathetic. Is it really intellectual to know how to multiply? Scary...

It is scary, but not as scary as some people I've worked with. Some CPAs couldn't figure out the original price if something had been marked down, like 40% off was $22, so what was the original price? And a civil engineer I worked with couldn't figure out exponential growth of 1.1% for 5 years, despite a book with the formula in it.

Danica McKellar is my hope for the future. Her message is that pretty and smart is better than pretty and dumb, and her books are brilliant.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I never really thought this way before but after reading this one article that kind of put things into perspective. The average IQ is 100, so to an average person a 65 IQ is retarded. Look at the way "normal" people view retarded people. So by that system of thinking anyone that is 30 points lower than me in IQ is a retard to my perspective. that would make the normal 100 IQ near-retarded compared to my 125-30 i supposedly have. I can only imagine how bad it would be for an even higher IQ. I will digress here though as I think IQ as a measure of intelligence is stupid

 

[Ermine]

In elementary school, the other kids would always call me "encyclopedia" because I aced our vocab and won every spelling contest. They weren't being mean, it was just for a laugh and we all had funny names for each other. We had a kid named Nile who got the worst of the names, but we never meant to be mean to each other. The nice thing was I don't think they thought I was strange so much as they were amazed at me (I don't mean to sound conceited, that's just what their reactions appeared like to me.) They never rejected me for being different, and I had a lot of friends.

No way! Encyclopedia was my role/nickname in school too. Not alienated for it, but people mostly didn't bother trying to befriend me. I was just a consultant.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I was the human dictionary/encyclopedia in 2nd-4th grade after that I had been to 3 schools and back and forth between parent so I was like screw it, schools suck, people suck and just completely slacked my way through school ever since.

 

[Yellow]

In elementary school, the other kids would always call me "encyclopedia" because I aced our vocab and won every spelling contest. They weren't being mean, it was just for a laugh and we all had funny names for each other. We had a kid named Nile who got the worst of the names, but we never meant to be mean to each other. The nice thing was I don't think they thought I was strange so much as they were amazed at me (I don't mean to sound conceited, that's just what their reactions appeared like to me.) They never rejected me for being different, and I had a lot of friends.

Thats me as well. Actually I'm still called a walking encyclopedia by most of my former co workers and students...

 

[floccinaucci]

no I don't because it makes me feel good. gives me an opportunity to insult someones intelligence.

 

[mormeguil]

I never really thought this way before but after reading this one article that kind of put things into perspective. The average IQ is 100, so to an average person a 65 IQ is retarded. Look at the way "normal" people view retarded people. So by that system of thinking anyone that is 30 points lower than me in IQ is a retard to my perspective. that would make the normal 100 IQ near-retarded compared to my 125-30 i supposedly have. I can only imagine how bad it would be for an even higher IQ. I will digress here though as I think IQ as a measure of intelligence is stupid

Well in this particular case it is quite different since the hight you go the difference is expoential

IQ follow quite rigorously the normal (It was one of the basic premise of the normal law (Maybe i got thw wrong name for it. Can't remeber the translation for now)

If you are inside the approximetly 34 points of 100 you are still very "normal". Overall 70$ of human population is between 66 and 134. Overall this mean that 65 will not look retarded and 130 will not look like a genius either.

THere is also the fact that IQ test only mesure up a few types of intelligence and a particular way of using logic. Overall IQ does not mean that much.

This also gets me to my next point. Why do so many person feel so more intelligent? My life and social interactions have gotten incredibly better when I realised that I was NOT more intelligent but simply used rigorous logic to understand the world and had a strong logical intelligence. This simply makes me more adapted to "thinking" task and thats it. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Trebuchet]

Overall IQ does not mean that much.

This also gets me to my next point. Why do so many person feel so more intelligent? My life and social interactions have gotten incredibly better when I realised that I was NOT more intelligent but simply used rigorous logic to understand the world and had a strong logical intelligence. This simply makes me more adapted to "thinking" task and thats it. Nothing more nothing less.

I thought about this, mormeguil, and I can't agree. Clearly, being intelligent does not make you better than other people, and life does go better when one appreciates others for their strengths.

As for your comment that you are not more intelligent, but just better at using logic to understand the world, how would you define intelligence, then? Being good at gathering information and using rigorous logic to understand how the world works is not a bad definition of smart. And your argument doesn't work in other domains. For example:

"I am not more athletic than others, but simply have developed my strength and endurance more than others, and I am used to the strategies used in many sports."

"I am not more artistic than others, but simply am more used to the application of color, form, and aesthetics to the techniques of the visual arts.

"I am not more fashionable than others, but simply pay more attention to current trends in what people are wearing, and I spend my money and time to keep up with them."

I know about the idea of multiple intelligences, and that seems like a good model. But Musical Intelligence or whatever is always an alternate type of intelligence, the stuff that isn't on an IQ test. You are right, IQ tests don't matter, but some people score high and others score low. Some people are better problem-solvers than others. Some people learn faster. What would you call the thing those people are better at?