We need conflict

[LifeLine]

In my opinion, people need some sort of conflict. There needs to be a mountain to climb or a leak to fix. Think about a crime drama, would you still watch the program if there were no villain? Probably not.

We need some sort of conflict in our lives. My idea is that all feelings are good in moderation. Without a single bad thing going on in life, you won't be able to fully appreciate the good in life. When conflicts are piling up (Mom dies, house burns down, job lost, abducted by mutant alien hamsters...), it is just overwhelming.

This is just my idea. To recap, people need conflict to grow and keep themselves entertained. What do you think?

 

[Words]

Small doses of this "medicine" is required for survival.

 

[Double-Think]

Hmm, I see your point but i would disagree, "We need some sort of conflict in our lives. My idea is that all feelings are good in moderation. Without a single bad thing going on in life, you won't be able to fully appreciate the good in life" I wouldn't really agree with that, Hegel might agree with you though, two variables being dependent on the other, but i don't think "bad" or whatever negative deviant behavior we call an action is needed in order for a "positive" quality to exist. It seems rather dualistic... i'll get back to this later, when more people add on to this, have a history term paper to finish. and "There needs to be a mountain to climb or a leak to fix." lol that made me laugh, i wouldn't picture climbing a mountain or fixing a leak as conflict, it would be attending to or fixing something that is bound to decay. Good topic though, lets see where it goes.

 

[Irishpenguin]

I guess I can agree with you a little on this. Though I definitely don't feel like there's a need for a "Constant" conflict. Like you said "Without a single bad thing going on in life, you won't be able to fully appreciate the good in life", I do believe that you need to have bad to appreciate the good, but there should be some kind of moment of reprieve between conflicts so you can take in all the good before another conflict happens and starts the chain again.

Think about a crime drama, would you still watch the program if there were no villain? Probably not.

Regarding a television show, yes, people would not watch. However I feel that if someone were to watch Real-Life, there response would probably be

"Dude, this just sucks"

So that might hint at a lack of conflict in real life

(Mom dies, house burns down, job lost, abducted by mutant alien hamsters...), it is just overwhelming.

ROFL, it isn't until your actually standing in the alien probe room and realize that it's a bunch of hamster before you finally go

"Okay, THIS IS THE LAST STRAW!!!"

 

[s0nystyle]

conflict is the spice in relationships. it makes life worth living imo

 

[RedLoki]

A balance of conflict and peace to always upset your balance.

 

[hperowne]

Life is a constant struggle. From the cells and microorganisms that make up individuals, to the individuals that make up countries, to the countries that make up the world, life is a struggle for power as Nietzsche taught.

In my opinion, people need some sort of conflict. There needs to be a mountain to climb or a leak to fix. Think about a crime drama, would you still watch the program if there were no villain? Probably not.

We need some sort of conflict in our lives. My idea is that all feelings are good in moderation. Without a single bad thing going on in life, you won't be able to fully appreciate the good in life. When conflicts are piling up (Mom dies, house burns down, job lost, abducted by mutant alien hamsters...), it is just overwhelming.

This is just my idea. To recap, people need conflict to grow and keep themselves entertained. What do you think?

 

[walfin]

:icon_pferdehaufen: :hopliti06:

There.

Not all problems are conflicts, anyway.

INTPs need problems, I think. Conflicts? I'm not so sure.

 

[Kuu]

I prefer the word "challenge" over "conflict"

but yeah.

 

[Kuu]

I prefer the word "challenge" over "conflict"

but yeah.

 

[Polaris]

Egos need conflict. It is what keeps them alive.

 

[LifeLine]

I believe that a challenge is a sort of conflict. A conflict is something to defeat or fix.

 

[Adymus]

Reality is conflict.


We don't just need it, we are it.

 

[ashitaria]

Conflict? What conflict? We have enough of that around already- look around you.

 

[wadlez]

Yeah I agree with you. There are particular examples of people that come to mind for this, especially some good looking girls I know. These girls are really hot, really popular, they can go anywhere are have an instant good reaction from the people they meet. Yet there really unhappy with there looks (there not just saying this for attention), they seek out bad relationships and critisism, only like guys who make them feel like shit. You just want to shake them and have them snap out of it.
More or less if you view many peoples lives from an outside perspective you cant see why there not happy, but people create there own delusions and constant struggles.
Even the richest people in the world and celebritys arent happy

 

[Double-Think]

Yeah I agree with you. There are particular examples of people that come to mind for this, especially some good looking girls I know. These girls are really hot, really popular, they can go anywhere are have an instant good reaction from the people they meet. Yet there really unhappy with there looks (there not just saying this for attention), they seek out bad relationships and critisism, only like guys who make them feel like shit. You just want to shake them and have them snap out of it.
More or less if you view many peoples lives from an outside perspective you cant see why there not happy, but people create there own delusions and constant struggles.
Even the richest people in the world and celebritys arent happy

Well that just supports the idea that materialism doesn't equate to happiness, it doesn't mean that we need "conflict" to be happy, or even content, As for the "hot" girls seeking out bad relationships and being "unhappy" with there looks, I'd chalk it up to shitty conditioning by society, If they were constantly admired there whole life based on appearance, well you have to ask where is the depth?, It's expected that the girls would feel unhappy about their looks, it's all they know, i'm sure if they were complimented on the intellect that they have, or something not external than circumstances may change. as for the initial topic, I would agree, i think we need "challenges" or an ideal to work towards but i wouldn't necessarily see such a thing as conflict.

 

[Beat Mango]

Life is a constant struggle. From the cells and microorganisms that make up individuals, to the individuals that make up countries, to the countries that make up the world, life is a struggle for power as Nietzsche taught.

And if we didn't engage in the struggle we'd be bored out of our minds. Just look at the drama that humans create. It is the spice of life but also its poison.

 

[Words]

What is life without problems? Do problems exist in conflicts?

The greatest challenges are those that pose the most difficult and threat---allowing conflicts to arise.

The different "weights" of problems, is that necessary?

 

[LifeLine]

And if we didn't engage in the struggle we'd be bored out of our minds. Just look at the drama that humans create. It is the spice of life but also its poison.

But... I'm human. What'cho tryin' tuh say? You know, that hurt. How would you like it if some Joe Schmoe insulted your race, buddy?


I get what you're saying. I've seen so many girls and guys who seem to have it all fretting over the tiniest thing. "Oh no! My IPod is only the 4gb version, I can't live without the 8gb version!" or "I'm only assistant manager, why don't they promote me to be manager? I deserve it!" People can never be content.

 

[AlisaD]

People can never be content.

Having a Kurt Cobain picture as your avatar, you should know better.

People can be content, such a state of mind is called Nirvana and is usually achieved by either sitting in the lotus position for years humming "Om", or by creatively combining the traits of opium derivatives and a shotgun.

 

[hperowne]

Schopenhauer in the World as Will and Representation states your point very elegantly about how people sway back and forth from attaining/achieving things to becoming bored and then trying to get out of their boredom by new diversions.

But... I'm human. What'cho tryin' tuh say? You know, that hurt. How would you like it if some Joe Schmoe insulted your race, buddy?


I get what you're saying. I've seen so many girls and guys who seem to have it all fretting over the tiniest thing. "Oh no! My IPod is only the 4gb version, I can't live without the 8gb version!" or "I'm only assistant manager, why don't they promote me to be manager? I deserve it!" People can never be content.

 

[Double-Think]

Schopenhauer in the World as Will and Representation states your point very elegantly about how people sway back and forth from attaining/achieving things to becoming bored and then trying to get out of their boredom by new diversions.

Good point bringing up Schopenhauer, I personally have an affinity with his thinking, and would agree with him. ah brilliant mind indeed!

 

[Tyria]

I think that life is conflict. Without it, everything would be very artificial.

 

[Beat Mango]

Good point bringing up Schopenhauer, I personally have an affinity with his thinking, and would agree with him. ah brilliant mind indeed!

I was going to mention him too - the little squibble I wrote was very Schopenhauer-esque. But like many of my favourite thinkers, he lived a life I have no intention of emulating yet am well on the way to doing so.

 

[NeverAmI]

Nietzsche's struggle for power can be applied, depending upon how far you widen the scope.

Words hit it on the head: survival. We are thrust into a state of existence of constant flux and for the most part we are wired to seek survival, there are ways to get around that urge (depression, despair) but for the most part we have to face and excel at facing our challenges (having power over them).

There are many different aspects of survival and our symbolic methods of thinking have evolved that concept into insanely complex networks of social structures, artwork, spiritual insights, etc, etc.

What is conflict? It is a challenge that presents itself that we can choose ot escape or to overcome, fight or flight. Now there are superpositions between the two that we often do in life. We are taught in social structures to be tactful, to avoid a state of constant trivial conflict in order to procure further advancement, a challenge that is larger in scope that requires organization not obtainable in constant chaos.

So the question becomes, what is conflict? When is it productive? What is truly best for human survival and advancement: individual, societal, and balancing the two? and what levels of scope are there that fundamentally have to be addressed in terms of adversity?

I am currently listening to a lecture from The Teaching Company on argumentation and it is incredibly interesting. The professor discusses how argumentation is a core foundation of social relationships. We seek to influence each other and our conversations are a form of informal argumentation at all times. Of course, you have to shed the negative connotations of unproductive argumentation that is so common among those whom don't understand the basic principles and efficiencies.

There are many different fronts on which we face adversity. We need them, and they need to remain in balance. Emotional, intellectual, physical, resourceful, etc, etc. We need to sharpen our skills, we need to increase our ability to survive.

In American society media seems to make us infer that materialistic (resourceful) survival is the key to happiness. What a load of shit! There are so many fronts that require constant exercise.

Think of sport, games, drama, romance, learning, they all sharpen our skills in some form or another. Any self-actualizing or person on the path to enlightenment will teach self-discipline, and the virtue of exercising and indeed conquering all of the above.

Increase your scope, grow your mind, strengthen your body, love your friends, prepare for the drought, be psychologically ready to console or to war.

Our bodies and minds are tools, they need to be sharpened and our own biology tells us this.

 

[NeverAmI]

I haven't read Schopenhauer yet, but I look forward to it.

 

[RedLoki]

Yeah I agree with you. There are particular examples of people that come to mind for this, especially some good looking girls I know. These girls are really hot, really popular, they can go anywhere are have an instant good reaction from the people they meet. Yet there really unhappy with there looks (there not just saying this for attention), they seek out bad relationships and critisism, only like guys who make them feel like shit. You just want to shake them and have them snap out of it.
More or less if you view many peoples lives from an outside perspective you cant see why there not happy, but people create there own delusions and constant struggles.
Even the richest people in the world and celebritys arent happy

I have to say, it's a misconception.

A lot of good looking girls are good looking as a result of their insecurity and self consciousness. They sincerely don't believe they are, so they endlessly try to be. Having people tell them they're cute/hot/etc doesn't mean anything when the problem is internal acceptance of how they look at themselves.

They don't seek out bad relationships with jerks. Most guys are intimated by good looking girls; they fidget, avoid eye contact like the plague, say stupid things (or don't know what to say), act different, try to impress and please, lose sight of their own opinion, lack of confidence, etc. It's the most obvious (and boring) thing in the world. No girl could respect a guy like that. On the other hand, jerks don't care about them, they act like they have nothing to lose, have their own opinion, etc. Blame the supersaturated market of nice guys and lack of guys who can just be themselves.

 

[Lobstrich]

There is no good without bad. There is no black without white and there is no conflict without peace.

With conflict, people become creative. In my opinion.
You mentioned a mountain. And if there was no trouble getting up that mountain. I wouldn't have to think about getting up that mountain.. I'd just have to walk.

Same goes for your friends & familiy. If you never argue. If there's never a conflict. You will never learn to appreciate what it is you have, you will end up taking it for granted and you wont develop.. Because there is no need for developing.
And you will end up being a shallow, boring person.
That's my opinion =)

 

[Double-Think]

" If there's never a conflict. You will never learn to appreciate what it is you have, you will end up taking it for granted and you wont develop.. Because there is no need for developing.
And you will end up being a shallow, boring person."

Hmm, that's a big leap in judgement don't you think?. When does lack of introspection within a relationship correlate to conflict, i can analyze a matter without there being a push-pull dynamic between two parties. As for not being able to learn without a conflict present, I would disagree, It's like saying you are learning for the sake of achieving a goal, it reduces the activity of learning altogether if with put it into a box like that. Rather, if one wanted to develop, he could compare his own situation to that of others, there isn't a fundamental "need" for conflict, Just to make sure i'm being clear here, Difference does not equal "conflict".

 

[BigApplePi]

I haven't read Schopenhauer yet, but I look forward to it.

What has Schopenhauer got that you haven't got?

 

[BigApplePi]

In my opinion, people need some sort of conflict. There needs to be a mountain to climb or a leak to fix. Think about a crime drama, would you still watch the program if there were no villain? Probably not.

We need some sort of conflict in our lives. My idea is that all feelings are good in moderation. Without a single bad thing going on in life, you won't be able to fully appreciate the good in life. When conflicts are piling up (Mom dies, house burns down, job lost, abducted by mutant alien hamsters...), it is just overwhelming.

This is just my idea. To recap, people need conflict to grow and keep themselves entertained. What do you think?

I've been racking my brains trying to answer this question. The conflict got so painful, that before I decided I needed to numb down my brain I realized the brain feels no pain. Must be that my body was racked instead. How could I have made that mistake? What a relief. Time to relax.

Conflict is natural, not because we seek it out or create it, but because things never work right. We always run into it. A question is, how stressful is it? Can it be overcome or does it break us?

I don't believe conflict is necessary for enjoyment though. Think of a building project. Any project: building a building, running a farm, creating a family, teaching a group of students. If we start out with all the supplies we can go for a long while without conflict. That's a big if though. We rarely think of all the supplies. That would include supplying ourselves with armor against outside catastrophes.

There is a difference between inside conflict and outside conflict. By that I mean if the conflict is to us or if we are witnesses. When we witness conflict we are likely to be drawn to it as much as repulsed. We are drawn because it can teach us what to do should it happen to us. We are repulsed if we think it will rub off on us.
________________

Creativity.
Another view of conflict was mentioned. Just growing something without conflict implies we already know just about how to go about it. But when we run into opposition, i.e. conflict, we have to find a new way. Stressing other people or pursuing a difficult project requires new solutions. In that sense conflict is good because those solutions can be recorded and applied to other known situations.

 

[NeverAmI]

What has Schopenhauer got that you haven't got?

Not sure what you mean, but I haven't read his work so I can't answer that.

 

[NeverAmI]

I have to say, it's a misconception.

A lot of good looking girls are good looking as a result of their insecurity and self consciousness. They sincerely don't believe they are, so they endlessly try to be. Having people tell them they're cute/hot/etc doesn't mean anything when the problem is internal acceptance of how they look at themselves.

They don't seek out bad relationships with jerks. Most guys are intimated by good looking girls; they fidget, avoid eye contact like the plague, say stupid things (or don't know what to say), act different, try to impress and please, lose sight of their own opinion, lack of confidence, etc. It's the most obvious (and boring) thing in the world. No girl could respect a guy like that. On the other hand, jerks don't care about them, they act like they have nothing to lose, have their own opinion, etc. Blame the supersaturated market of nice guys and lack of guys who can just be themselves.

Excellent post.

 

[Lobstrich]

" If there's never a conflict. You will never learn to appreciate what it is you have, you will end up taking it for granted and you wont develop.. Because there is no need for developing.
And you will end up being a shallow, boring person."

Hmm, that's a big leap in judgement don't you think?. When does lack of introspection within a relationship correlate to conflict, i can analyze a matter without there being a push-pull dynamic between two parties. As for not being able to learn without a conflict present, I would disagree, It's like saying you are learning for the sake of achieving a goal, it reduces the activity of learning altogether if with put it into a box like that. Rather, if one wanted to develop, he could compare his own situation to that of others, there isn't a fundamental "need" for conflict, Just to make sure i'm being clear here, Difference does not equal "conflict".

When did I ever say that I never analyze, and just intiate conflicts?
When did I ever say that you didn't learn without conflict?
And when did I ever say difference equals conflict?

Read my post again please. I understand what you're saying and I partly agree.

But it's like that British guy in on youtube (posted on this forum some times) Says.. "If you eat.. And don't feel hungry again, you won't feel the need to eat again. And you will die"
And if you don't feel the need to work for your relationships, and other stuff.
(Working: As in conflicts. Where that relationship, or you work etc.)
Is in a little mess maybe even on the line..
How are you going to love what it is you have? You won't appreciate it, as it's just there.. It's just another gimmick.

 

[Lobstrich]

I've been racking my brains trying to answer this question. The conflict got so painful, that before I decided I needed to numb down my brain I realized the brain feels no pain. Must be that my body was racked instead. How could I have made that mistake? What a relief. Time to relax.

Conflict is natural, not because we seek it out or create it, but because things never work right. We always run into it. A question is, how stressful is it? Can it be overcome or does it break us?

I don't believe conflict is necessary for enjoyment though. Think of a building project. Any project: building a building, running a farm, creating a family, teaching a group of students. If we start out with all the supplies we can go for a long while without conflict. That's a big if though. We rarely think of all the supplies. That would include supplying ourselves with armor against outside catastrophes.

But as you said yourself.. Things NEVER work out. But IF building your house went as smooth as ever. Or IF non of the students disobeyed and just acted like drones.. You wouldn't feel the same accomplishment would you?

 

[amorfati]

Not only does life need conflict, but it needs conflict to manifest itself honestly and naturally. Life needs men to fight one another physically both on the smaller scale (between citizens of the same society) and on a larger scale (amongst nations) because without it all of the frustrated needs for power manifest in wholly unnatural (read: psychological) ways that are devastating to society, that have become the foundation of modern sickness.

Modern society has recognized that we evolved from animals but it has not overcome its horror at that fact. Has there ever been a society in the history of mankind where two men fighting was illegal and considered socially taboo? No one is supposed to use violence at any point in this society unless one is being physically attacked first, and even then you have to worry about lawsuits. It's wholly unnatural to impose these morals upon people and it is in fact cruel.

And those are just external conflicts, but life needs internal conflicts just as much, as it is internal conflicts that both give rise to external conflicts (war) and the overcoming of external conflicts (pacifism, which is itself born out of an internal conflict between "right" and "wrong")

Without conflict, life is utterly meaningless and is in fact unimaginable.

 

[Lobstrich]

Not only does life need conflict, but it needs conflict to manifest itself honestly and naturally. Life needs men to fight one another physically both on the smaller scale (between citizens of the same society) and on a larger scale (amongst nations) because without it all of the frustrated needs for power manifest in wholly unnatural (read: psychological) ways that are devastating to society, that have become the foundation of modern sickness.

Modern society has recognized that we evolved from animals but it has not overcome its horror at that fact. Has there ever been a society in the history of mankind where two men fighting was illegal and considered socially taboo? No one is supposed to use violence at any point in this society unless one is being physically attacked first, and even then you have to worry about lawsuits. It's wholly unnatural to impose these morals upon people and it is in fact cruel.

And those are just external conflicts, but life needs internal conflicts just as much, as it is internal conflicts that both give rise to external conflicts (war) and the overcoming of external conflicts (pacifism, which is itself born out of an internal conflict between "right" and "wrong")

Without conflict, life is utterly meaningless and is in fact unimaginable.

i agree.. Thought I don't think people shouldn't be punished for assault.
That wasn't your point. But you're saying that, that's what should be.

 

[BigApplePi]

But as you said yourself.. Things NEVER work out. But IF building your house went as smooth as ever. Or IF non of the students disobeyed and just acted like drones.. You wouldn't feel the same accomplishment would you?

I disagree strongly, but only for special cases. I will soon work on my garden. I expect no specially strong conflicts. Whether I get any or not I will get satisfaction by growing some vegetables. Have you ever worked out a puzzle? Isn't finishing it satisfying? Could be smooth sailing. Maybe yes; maybe not. How about listening to Hendrix? I can see getting a lot of satisfaction out of that.

Maybe it's an "art."

 

[Lobstrich]

I disagree strongly, but only for special cases. I'm will soon work on my garden. I expect no specially strong conflicts. Whether I get any or not I will get satifaction by growning some vegetables. Have you ever worked out a puzzle? Isn't finishing it satisfying? Could be smooth sailing. Maybe yes; maybe not. How about listening to Hendrix? I can see getting a lot of satisfaction out of that.

Maybe it's an "art."

I never said you didn't get satisfaction..
I said the satisfaction is greater if there was a 'fight' involved.
And that, you cannot deny. If Hendrix was rare.. And I had to hunt down every piece of music.. I'd get annoyed while hunting. But when I finally got a song, I'd be SO happy because I just got another song..
Compared to if they were just floating around It would just be like "Oh great! A hendrix song!... Another one."

 

[BigApplePi]

I never said you didn't get satisfaction..
I said the satisfaction is greater if there was a 'fight' involved.
And that, you cannot deny. If Hendrix was rare.. And I had to hunt down every piece of music.. I'd get annoyed while hunting. But when I finally got a song, I'd be SO happy because I just got another song..
Compared to if they were just floating around It would just be like "Oh great! A hendrix song!... Another one."

If things just fell into one's lap it might be pleasing but only at first. One would not be alive. I agree effort in involved. Effort means life. One goes through a process of trying. Yet there must be some qualification of stress undergone. If one encounters a lot of conflict when climbing a mountain, one can say, "I overcame this and that." In that case the conflict would give one more satisfaction. Maybe the test is, "Would I do that again?"
"Whew! I'll never take that chance again. I could have died or been maimed." Is that the kind of conflict we want?

 

[Lobstrich]

If things just fell into one's lap it might be pleasing but only at first. One would not be alive. I agree effort in involved. Effort means life. One goes through a process of trying. Yet there must be some qualification of stress undergone. If one encounters a lot of conflict when climbing a mountain, one can say, "I overcame this and that." In that case the conflict would give one more satisfaction. Maybe the test is, "Would I do that again?"
"Whew! I'll never take that chance again. I could have died or been maimed." Is that the kind of conflict we want?

So you agree. Why disagree in your first reply, then?

 

[citrusbreath95]

Conflict helps us to advance in life and history. Without it, what do we learn from? What do we try to avoid happening again? I've often wondered if all the conflict was taken out of history, would it really result in peace as most people would argue? Or perhaps, would it result in just the opposite effect, and cause chaos and destruction? Would the sheer knowledge of having nothing to live for, fight for, or overcome anything, (as everything is handed out) drive people to insanity? Would we know how to react if something really horrific happened if we had no prior wisdom of such a concept? Would we even still be defined as humanity? (humans aren't perfect). So maybe all the smaller conflicts present today, and in the past, prevent a colossal problem from occurring. Conflict acting like some sort of stabilizer. Or perhaps, it's what gives us some feeling of happiness, from the past experiences of such dilemmas.