Time is precious

[zago]

Time is passing you by. The clock is ticking for you. What are you going to do with your life?

I'm becoming frustrated with people whose motors stall, and they fail to make any real progress in the direction they desire. I'm finally coming to terms with the fact that I'm losing my best friend from college. He's still living at home with his parents; we are 25 now. I want to smack some sense into him: where do you think you're going to wind up? You're going to live some life that you had to settle for. You're not going to get the relationships you want. No one's going to think much of you. Your life will be unremarkable. Youth is crumbling away before us, pretty soon it's going to be too late to take advantage of the opportunities it affords us...

And then there's drugs. I've been through drugs. They are a pointless waste of time. They bring no lasting happiness. Getting messed up once in a while is fine, but every day? How much time does it take away? How much money does it cost? TICK, TOCK, TICK, TOCK. While many of my friends get high or drunk, the dreams they've shared fade away before my eyes, like sand slipping through closed fists. This obsession with leisure, calmness, relaxation, happiness: I hate it. Stopping and smelling the roses does not bring real happiness. It is a fleeting pleasure. Get the fucking job done. Life is full of responsibilities, and guess what: you can rest when you die. People are counting on you. You're counting on yourself. You can't just shove your responsibilities down in a basement and forget about them. They will all have to be addressed, each and every one. There is no escaping them. There is no shortcut.

I don't care if I am happy or not. There are more important things. Because I know this, I am not unhappy. I have shit I want to do in life, and I recognize that nothing short of constant effort will accomplish it all. Wallowing in misery will not fix anything. There is this instinct in me that makes me think it will, and I've watched that fallacy die over the last couple years. I used to think that if I suffered enough, I would be liberated of all suffering. Enlightenment. I can see where that comes from: when a baby cries, a benevolent adult comes and soothes it. What was I expecting? What happens after you are enlightened? Can you be thrown into a concentration camp and not care, because you are enlightened? Can you be burned alive and feel no pain? Clearly not. It is complete bullshit. I wanted to be special like that, but I'm not. The only way I could ever be special is if I make something of myself.

Zen folks say there is no such thing as time. The clock on my wall still ticks. There is definitely time, and it is precious. Since there is no shortcut to greatness, every last second must be spent wisely. It will take a long time. And there is no lasting happiness. Moods come and go. You'll never overcome them. Sadness, anger, boredom, anxiety... they are facts of life.

If you don't realize this, here is what will happen: you will slowly fade away as age overcomes you. Things might be ok while you're young, but you will get more and more entangled in the mess you irresponsibly create for yourself, continuously running out of options in life. You'll miss out on making your dreams reality. In the end you'll be bitter, lonely, and disconnected.

Spend on your time on an internet forum, and this will happen to you. This discussion is virtually worthless. These people are rarely real friends, and they aren't really experts on anything either. You could read books, read the news, and make real friends and accomplish so much more. Spending hours here every day is deranged and unhealthy. It's going to get you NOTHING. This is a terrible way to spend time. This is a terrible investment.

Of course, many of you have reached a dead end in your outlook upon the world. You're satisfied that what you know is enough, you think you're smart, even though there are people out there far, far more accomplished and intelligent. And you're only diminishing your chances of ever meeting people like this every day as you sit here and read what the other losers here have to say. The other losers, who you'll never know in real life, who will never be there for you.

Look, I understand that meeting people and making friends is hard, but you might as well not set yourself up for failure. There are so many other things to do. So many books to read about different subjects, so many ways to educate yourself. You can get outside, go hiking, get in shape at the gym, culture yourself and get to know some of the great movies and songs of time. The esoteric may make you feel special, but it is drawing you away from people. You'll never be able to relate to anyone. You'll bitterly resent people for not understanding you, and secretly you'll know that it was all just for its own sake. The esoteric things you do are no greater than that which has risen to the top of mainstream society - you just had to feel special.

The narrow experience of people who populate forums like this only causes them to stagnate anyway. What could a group of people who spend all their time on the internet have to say to each other anyway? It's a vicious cycle. I admit, sometimes I like to express myself through writing, engage in some debate, etc. But I used to sit at the computer for hours, entangled in inconsequential discussions and hoping someone would reply to whatever I'd posted. Waste. Of. Time.

Well, I might as well post this now. I might proof read and edit it later. It is probably a mess, and it has no direction to it, but if I go over it now and read it all, I'll wind up deleting it. I think I'll just throw it out there.

TLDR, the grim reaper is creeping up on you whether you know it or not.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Thanks for this depressing rant. ):

What a waste of time is, is just subjective. Personally, I love calmness, leisure, relaxation. Fuck it. Sure, I hope I get somewhere in life, but only with the things I love. You can combine being calm and getting your dreams fulfilled. It depends on what your dreams are. My goal at the moment is getting better at art and photography, and hopefully finish a study in psychology somewhere in the future. What my goals after that will be, I don't know. I'll see then. I'm sure I'll have some dreams to live for.

 

[Ripuli]

Since I'm working, I feel the waste of time which working brings along. It's depressing.

[FLV]YouTube - ‪Bridge To Solace Deathrace With Dimension 4‬‏[/FLV]

 

[Melllvar]

Meh, I use this place for recreation and socialization, because (at least to some degree) I like it here. If I want to go make measurable advances in my life I go do that, on different time. We all have our ways of relaxing and having fun, and some people choose this. Also, I like some of the people I've met on here. I value their opinions, and I like talking to them.

In the past year I've learned three new programming languages, gotten a decent start on general relativity and tensor analysis (among other subjects), am doing fairly well at picking up guitar, started a business with someone else I also met on the internet (it fell through though - but lessons learned, it'll be easier next time), raised three orphan kittens that were less than week old to the point where they could be adopted (not as easy as it sounds), learned to ride a motorcycle, taught my dog to canoe without flipping it... hell, I can't even remember all the cool stuff I've done. What the hell have you done to break free from the constant threat of stagnation and mundanity?

Tl;dr: Don't know what the hell you're talking about.

 

[snafupants]

Why is it important to take advantage of the finite amount of time we have on this planet? Please tell me the value of a remarkable life and define a remarkable life. Also, would you fill everyone in on the unique opportunities that afford youth.

 

[Solitaire U.]

You do of course acknowledge the irony of what a horrendous waste of time that wall of text was, right?

 

[snafupants]

You do of course acknowledge the irony of what a horrendous waste of time that wall of text was, right?

Perhaps zago does realize that; we are still losers though.

 

[Solitaire U.]

I heartily agree. Perhaps zago would too..."Better to have played and lost, than never to have played at all."(sic)

 

[Linsejko]

^^Finally a voice of reason.

This is very much a rant, it's very subjective, and it's very hypocritical. And it's arrogant to boot.

Spend on your time on an internet forum, and this will happen to you. This discussion is virtually worthless. These people are rarely real friends, and they aren't really experts on anything either. You could read books, read the news, and make real friends and accomplish so much more. Spending hours here every day is deranged and unhealthy. It's going to get you NOTHING. This is a terrible way to spend time. This is a terrible investment.

Of course, many of you have reached a dead end in your outlook upon the world. You're satisfied that what you know is enough, you think you're smart, even though there are people out there far, far more accomplished and intelligent. And you're only diminishing your chances of ever meeting people like this every day as you sit here and read what the other losers here have to say. The other losers, who you'll never know in real life, who will never be there for you.

Look, I understand that meeting people and making friends is hard, but you might as well not set yourself up for failure. There are so many other things to do. So many books to read about different subjects, so many ways to educate yourself. You can get outside, go hiking, get in shape at the gym, culture yourself and get to know some of the great movies and songs of time. The esoteric may make you feel special, but it is drawing you away from people. You'll never be able to relate to anyone. You'll bitterly resent people for not understanding you, and secretly you'll know that it was all just for its own sake. The esoteric things you do are no greater than that which has risen to the top of mainstream society - you just had to feel special.

Listen, I think about this every day. I've started thinking like this every day for the last year. At first I was heavily depressed, because for the first time I came to terms with death. It lasted for months. Now I am extremely motivated to enjoy every day.

Your view that you want to accomplish something, whether or not you are happy, seems incredibly naive to me. Accomplishments are worth nothing. You only have the love and pleasure of the moment--anything else is vanity, worthless, and has a false basis, unless there is a spiritual reality I am unaware of. But fine, in you didn't ask (or didn't judge, which is asking for it), I would let you have your delusions. What makes me think I know better than you? I am quite aware that there's a good chance I don't know anything.

That's a healthy self-skepticism you should learn to inherit.

I would like to take a moment to point out that you are here, and just spent a long time writing this post... What the hell are you doing? Do you expect people to follow your advice when you don't follow your own? I would have respect if you left a quick "I've realized I'm wasting away here--it's been a good time, but I recommend you all move on too. Live the best life you can life! Carpe Diem!" and went. As it is, you're still here.... Reading this response...

Really?

Next, this is an investment that will reap its own returns. There is information of value here, there are real relationships here, there is an influence this forum has on our mental outlook that I consider to be of much higher value than most influences most social circles give. It doesn't seem to have any direct influence towards helping me accomplish something significant in life, but you fail to realize that that sounds like a completely worthless life to me. Those who spent their whole life in service of humanity missed the mark, in my book. I admire and praise those who lived every day like it was their last and smiled constantly, deeply. Who cares about accomplishments? What a fucking waste. Who says you can tell me what has value? That means you are deciding you know what's best for my life, what goals to live. I have no problem with you living out your own delusions, I give everyone that right--all I ask is they give me the same. Seriously, get off your pedastal.

You just called us all losers? Really? You do realize you are right here along with us, right?

Next, I am keenly aware that there are many others smarter than me. I am not smug. I went through months of depression in high school obsessed with the idea that I was just smart enough to know I wasn't brilliant, no matter what others think. Again, get off your fucking pedastal.

Next, I have no problem making friends, and have an abundance. Next, I have a collection of artsy films I've been downloading recently, and keep up multiple hobbies--including being an active biker, rock climber, and hiker. Again, who the hell do you think you are? Are you just assuming everyone on this forum sits on their ass at the computer all day and writes depressing rants like you have? Please, be a bit more condescending.

Oh, you just realized that there is no value in being difficult to understand? Congratulations, now don't assume others haven't gone through that process. I can tell you it was the spring of my 18th year that I discussed this same epiphany with a friend, realizing that there is no depth to being behind layers of symbols to others, that true depth is relationships. Now who the fuck do you think you are to speak as if you are the only one who realizes this? Seriously, I haven't seen such asshattery in all my time on this forum, and I've debated with some idiots here more than once more than I should have.

It's always good to remind people that time is short, we all too often forget that. Just remember that you are no prophet, and you would do well to respect your audience... Most of us have thought in this direction too.

No wonder people didn't to agree with you on the Social thread... Even if it was objectively respectable, I wouldn't want to agree with anything you said, right or not.

Go read a style guide on tone and find some humility, and then consider posting again.

 

[zago]

What the hell have you done to break free from the constant threat of stagnation and mundanity?

Many projects. Working on starting a business, a book, practicing guitar every day, playing lots of chess, going to the gym a lot trying to get ripped, maintain a social life, and of particular interest, I have started educating myself with flashcards and I'm getting a system down for the best way to learn massive numbers of facts. I have a long way to go with all of these things. This summer I also hope to go mountain climbing in Maine and take another couple minimalist camping trips.

Why is it important to take advantage of the finite amount of time we have on this planet? Please tell me the value of a remarkable life and define a remarkable life. Also, would you fill everyone in on the unique opportunities that afford youth.

It is simply the right thing to do. We all have dreams or fantasies we would like to live out. No one is actually okay with just letting their desires slip away and living a shoddy life. What brings satisfaction, if not purpose? Is this not the moral of every inspirational movie, like, ever? Rudy (from the football movie Rudy, a true story) didn't just say to himself, damn, I'm too small to play football. He knew he loved football, so he went out and played him some goddamn football. Homer Hickum (from October Sky, which is also a true story) didn't just screw around and accept the fact that he was going to be a coal miner, he got off his ass and educated himself. These movies make us feel good, because we see a hero accomplish something great. I show October Sky to my freshman physics students, and they like the movie, but a lot of them don't make the connection. The point is that education and effort gives you control over your life and allows you to do what you want. This is particularly relevant to them because most of them come from broken homes, crime, and relative poverty. Many if not most will end up in jail, dead early, or working 2 or 3 jobs to support a family. They, being young, don't realize that their futures will be just the same as what they want to escape (if they don't take control). Our circumstances aren't as severe, but they still exist.

Definition of a remarkable life? Again, very obvious. Who are some of the people history remembers and loves? Have they not lived remarkable lives? When someone has lived a remarkable life, they have stepped up to their callings and taken action. They have won battles, provided for families, garnered admirers, and achieved their dreams.

Opportunities young people have that waste away with time? Lord, please tell me you are being obstinate for its own sake. Obviously we are more fit when we are young. Our minds are developing. We have our whole lives ahead of us, and little or no entanglements like families of our own or physical ailments. Grim realities come with age. I constantly think, god, I wish I could go back to when I was 15. But then again, I also think, thank god I didn't realize these things much later than I did. At 25, I have most of my life ahead of me to accomplish what I really want.

You do of course acknowledge the irony of what a horrendous waste of time that wall of text was, right?

No. It may provide value to some people. It's as much for me as it is for anyone else, though. I constantly remind myself of these truths.

Your view that you want to accomplish something, whether or not you are happy, seems incredibly naive to me. Accomplishments are worth nothing. You only have the love and pleasure of the moment--anything else is vanity, worthless, and has a false basis, unless there is a spiritual reality I am unaware of.

The moment sucks. I have spent years trying to enjoy the present moment. It is an unproductive waste of time. Really, though, the moment has a direction to it, and to fully enjoy it you can't shut out the past and the future as if they don't exist. Preparing for the future is a legitimate way to enjoy the present.

Secondly, accomplishments are worth more than just about anything. They form the basis of your reputation and self respect. What are you, some egoless deity? The value of accomplishment is a fact of life. Accomplishments aren't necessarily made for their own sake, though. If I successfully start a business, it will be a huge accomplishment, and it will also grant me exactly what I've always wanted: to be in charge (and hopefully obscenely rich).

But fine, in you didn't ask (or didn't judge, which is asking for it), I would let you have your delusions. What makes me think I know better than you? I am quite aware that there's a good chance I don't know anything.

That's a healthy self-skepticism you should learn to inherit.

I label what you are referring to as "overthinking things." From my perspective, this is the exact problem that forum dwellers and others tend to have. Out in real life, a lot of people don't think enough. Here, and even in some places in real life, people think way too much, and can convince themselves of just about anything. As George Orwell said, "Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them."

I have been through self-skepticism, and I have reached its endpoint. It is a huge waste of time. If you're wrong, so what? The world doesn't revolve around me. Sure, I try to be right and I listen to reason, but too much self-skepticism is really the equivalent of nihilism. It's ok for me to choose what I believe in now and live it. I'm sure it will change with time. If I embrace self-skepticism, I'll never do anything.

I would like to take a moment to point out that you are here, and just spent a long time writing this post... What the hell are you doing? Do you expect people to follow your advice when you don't follow your own? I would have respect if you left a quick "I've realized I'm wasting away here--it's been a good time, but I recommend you all move on too. Live the best life you can life! Carpe Diem!" and went. As it is, you're still here.... Reading this response...

Really?

I deny that I spend an excessive amount of time here. This isn't black and white. Fact: before this thread, I had gone for days or weeks without posting; after this thread, I will go for days or weeks without posting. This forum plays a small role in my life. I am not being hypocritical at all.

Next, this is an investment that will reap its own returns. There is information of value here, there are real relationships here, there is an influence this forum has on our mental outlook that I consider to be of much higher value than most influences most social circles give. It doesn't seem to have any direct influence towards helping me accomplish something significant in life, but you fail to realize that that sounds like a completely worthless life to me. Those who spent their whole life in service of humanity missed the mark, in my book. I admire and praise those who lived every day like it was their last and smiled constantly, deeply. Who cares about accomplishments? What a fucking waste. Who says you can tell me what has value? That means you are deciding you know what's best for my life, what goals to live. I have no problem with you living out your own delusions, I give everyone that right--all I ask is they give me the same. Seriously, get off your pedastal.

You have the right not to read or respond to me. I don't know why I have to keep reminding people of that when they say I am forcing beliefs on them. If I know I'm right, I will act as such. It doesn't occur to me to pepper my writing with declarations of uncertainty like, "well, I could be wrong about all of this." There is no need for that. People can decide whether or not I am wrong, I don't need to remind them of that. What great quote has ever been prefaced with, "well, I'm not 100% sure about this, but..."

A few short months ago, I proclaimed to my friend "I am a man of leisure!" He told me he said that same thing a few years ago, but at some point that clock in his mind began to tick. I didn't buy what he said, but I kept it in my mind, knowing that I wouldn't be surprised if it ever happened to me. And it has.

You just called us all losers? Really? You do realize you are right here along with us, right?

Not necessarily all. To be honest I really don't know any of you or how much time you spend here. I'm speaking from past experience when I spent more time at INTPc. I needed a wakeup call like this. Spending my entire evening in front of an internet board was a big waste of time.

Next, I have no problem making friends, and have an abundance. Next, I have a collection of artsy films I've been downloading recently, and keep up multiple hobbies--including being an active biker, rock climber, and hiker. Again, who the hell do you think you are? Are you just assuming everyone on this forum sits on their ass at the computer all day and writes depressing rants like you have? Please, be a bit more condescending.

Fine, then none of this applies to you. Congratulations.

Oh, you just realized that there is no value in being difficult to understand? Congratulations, now don't assume others haven't gone through that process. I can tell you it was the spring of my 18th year that I discussed this same epiphany with a friend, realizing that there is no depth to being behind layers of symbols to others, that true depth is relationships. Now who the fuck do you think you are to speak as if you are the only one who realizes this? Seriously, I haven't seen such asshattery in all my time on this forum, and I've debated with some idiots here more than once more than I should have.

So we agree. I think a simple "that's right" would have sufficed. I don't remember saying I was the only one aware of this. Hey, if you already have all your thoughts gathered on this matter, like I said, congratulations, this may or may not apply to you.

It's always good to remind people that time is short, we all too often forget that. Just remember that you are no prophet, and you would do well to respect your audience... Most of us have thought in this direction too.

No wonder people didn't to agree with you on the Social thread... Even if it was objectively respectable, I wouldn't want to agree with anything you said, right or not.

Go read a style guide on tone and find some humility, and then consider posting again.

I fully realize that this kind of stuff is infuriating to certain people. I use myself as a reference. A couple years ago I would have reacted strongly against a thread like this. But as I know now, I never would have forgotten about it and slowly would have come to see reason behind it. Now I figure, what of it? I could try to make this not offend anyone, but I could also just come in and be super blunt about it. I don't think that I post frequently enough to have to worry about my reputation. If you don't like it, steer clear of it. If you want to discuss it, I'm glad to.

 

[Linsejko]

I detest political correctness as much as the next guy. I wasn't asking you to pepper doubts in with what you are saying. I was saying don't act like you are here distributing truth and we should all be grateful to eat from your hand. There's a way one speaks to peers, and there's a way one speaks to underlings, and you definitely fell in the latter category.

It is simply the right thing to do.

Stare at that sentence and realize that your unfounded absolutism is going to be flat out rejected on a thinking forum. Ok? Now let's move on.

We all have dreams or fantasies we would like to live out. No one is actually okay with just letting their desires slip away and living a shoddy life. What brings satisfaction, if not purpose?

You have created a straw man argument. You have listed the alternative to your painted reality as 'letting ones desires slip away/living a shoddy life'. This is inherently a false dichotomy. I have no intentions of doing either.

Purpose? I have rejected notions of purpose. I no longer believe anything has value. Purpose doesn't exist in my worldview. I don't know if you can understand that, but it has become my honest-to-nonexistantgod reality in a very concrete way. It was hella depressing at first, but it has allowed me to see the beauty of fading flowers in a way never possible before, and has caused me to start smiling spontaneously on a regular basis--because after all, this moment is passing, and I only have so many. I find satisfaction when loved, when victorious, when moving, when interacting, when learning, when thinking, when listening, when running, climbing, singing, creating. Purpose is imagined. Many existentialists said one should create one's own purpose, but I can't bring myself to their same conclusion--it feels intellectually dishonest to me. None of it seems to matter, and I can't seem to lie to myself well enough to get it to matter. I've always been a sucker for truth, for better or worse, sick or poor. My only ambition is to love life every moment I get... Anything else is based on lies. Why do I want that? Because it feels good, and I've been been bred to enjoy what feels good. And that's just something that's futile to resist, so might as well accept it and make the most of it.

I label what you are referring to as "overthinking things." From my perspective, this is the exact problem that forum dwellers and others tend to have. Out in real life, a lot of people don't think enough. Here, and even in some places in real life, people think way too much, and can convince themselves of just about anything. As George Orwell said, "Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them."

I have been through self-skepticism, and I have reached its endpoint. It is a huge waste of time. If you're wrong, so what? The world doesn't revolve around me. Sure, I try to be right and I listen to reason, but too much self-skepticism is really the equivalent of nihilism. It's ok for me to choose what I believe in now and live it. I'm sure it will change with time. If I embrace self-skepticism, I'll never do anything.

Enjoy your label. I label your way of thinking "simplistic and naive". "Arrogant" should go along with that. If you think people think way too much here, then leave.

Further, your system of labeling is really not doing you any favors, on any fronts. I, for instance, usually visit this forum for a couple weeks every 8 months or so. I then grow bored and move on. Check my posting record. I could thus hardly be called a 'forum dweller'. Christ, you're an arrogant prick.

As for you not caring about being wrong, fine! I agree, to a certain extent. The issue is that you have zero ability to relate to others if you believe that only you are right and are unable to operate within a worldview that allows other people to be potentially right. There is a point where it's way too much--but trust me, you're a long way from reaching that point. A 'healthy dose' is the key term above--an amount that allows you to not sound like you've found the meaning of life and assume everyone else is a stupid-stuck-in-overthought idiot that you've mass categorized as less-enlightened.

Just enough not to be an arrogant prick, in simpler terms.

You have the right not to read or respond to me. I don't know why I have to keep reminding people of that when they say I am forcing beliefs on them.

I never said you were forcing beliefs on anyone. No reason to resort to false accusations again.

I do have the right to not respond, correct. Also, if someone punches me, I have the right to not hit them back.

That being said, I like will refrain from exercising that right.

Now, let me go a bit out of chornological order, I realized I forgot to respond to something... sheesh, there's so much wrong here I don't know what to do with myself.

It is an unproductive waste of time.

Productivity is related to an ends, and I've already said I don't have an end other than the present. Remember? Productivity is a relative value, and I've explicitly chosen to disregard it as inherently flawed and founded in an untrue version of reality.

Really, though, the moment has a direction to it, and to fully enjoy it you can't shut out the past and the future as if they don't exist. Preparing for the future is a legitimate way to enjoy the present.

Preparing for the future usually requires suffering. Still, I don't state one should not prepare for the future. I've never advocated that. I just say one shouldn't suffer now for a future later.

In other words: Don't suffer now, play later--work as hard as enjoyable, and still play some, and then play extra hard later. Don't put pleasure off, you don't know if you'll reach the other side of the equation.

Secondly, accomplishments are worth more than just about anything. They form the basis of your reputation and self respect. What are you, some egoless deity? The value of accomplishment is a fact of life.

So blatantly false... Accomplishments only serve the purpose of getting others to stroke your ego. Which feels nice, but is an inefficient way to feel nice. Reputation means very little, and will serve itself by living a good life. I never worry about reputation, or do things explicitly for the purpose of furthering my reputation. Self respect is something I already have, I don't need more. Egoless deity? I'm flattered, but I'm just trying for egoless mortal. I still have one, though, and that's fine. I just accept it, and don't mind you petting it if you want, but I try and focus on more potent pleasures.

What great quote has ever been prefaced with, "well, I'm not 100% sure about this, but..."

A lot of people think they are speaking like great people, making great quotes. Instead, they're just being arrogant pricks.

(Case in point.)

The number of times I've read a quote and find it arrogant and superficial... I am unable to count such things. The vast majority of quotes are offensively stupid and superior sounding.

I have great admiration for the unassuming ones, the simple observations that speak for themselves. Sometimes great truth is spoken in commanding tones, but that's rare. Talking like that all the time won't make you great, or respected (I hope, though in a world of sheep, perhaps you will get an army to stroke your ego)... It'll just make you sound delusional.

(Case in point.)

So we agree. I think a simple "that's right" would have sufficed. I don't remember saying I was the only one aware of this.

Actually, that's exactly the point. The entire tone of your post conveyed an opinion that you were informing us of something we all needed to know (and thus did not already). That's exactly why it's so offensive. I really am rather tolerant to just about all points of view other than arrogance... I would be rather happy for your worldview, it has lots of great points, in general--except that you are so arrogant and proclaiming it as 'the way to live'. Don't you get it? Are you so blind? Do I have to resort to my English Literature background and parse your post sentence by sentence to show you what rhetorical devices exactly made you an ass?

If the answer is yes, my answer is you aren't worth wasting the time on. Up until this point, I'm enjoying myself... The details bore me. (See how I'm following your philosophy? Proud?)

But as I know now, I never would have forgotten about it and slowly would have come to see reason behind it. Now I figure, what of it? I could try to make this not offend anyone, but I could also just come in and be super blunt about it. I don't think that I post frequently enough to have to worry about my reputation.

Never mind, my work is cut out for me... This. It's great that you are openly revealing how little you think of anyone else here, how you must be the only one doing things right while everyone else is trapped in silly mind games that you are above.

I see that you are a man fond of the idea of mental growth.

Go do some more of that, and we might enjoy your company one day. (I won't fault you for picking a new user name...)

Anyways, 'slowly come to see reason behind it'.... haha. If I ever come around to a point of view like yours (and who knows! It could happen one day, I doubt I will stick with my current philosophy for the duration of my life, if it be long!), I highly doubt it will be due to this thread. It says nothing new, just everything I've consciously rejected in an offensive way... Again, I'm glad you think you're such a revelation to us all, it must pet your obviously needy and over sized ego.

 

[Meer]

oh my god i need to get ripped and buy some flash cards so i can learn a lot of facts.

 

[nexion]

I understand what you are saying... I feel the weight of it all, the moments lost, never to be gotten back.

But there is some thing I have realized, some truth which weighs far more heavily on my soul than the petty fact that I waste my time and hate it. And this realization is that nothing really matters at all. Sure, it must sound so foolish, and insincere, that anyone could seriously consider such a notion such as nihilism for anything other than the sake of nihilism. But this has become something which has, in the last few years, defined by life more than any single idea, and will continue to do so in the near and distant future.

You speak of time as if it were an entity to be taken advantage of, something which humanity can just take for itself like it has everything else. You speak of using it wisely as if doing so will fulfill some innate and glorious purpose, and will make an insignificant man powerful in some way. You speak of death as though filling one's time with "productive" and "worthwhile" activities would stay it for even one moment. Do you think you would be able to say, on your deathbed, considering all the achievements you have obtained in life, that you are ready to die? But where will all the progress you have made in life go? And for what?

There is no point in trying to force yourself against time's constraints. Find time's flow, and meld with it. For just as time raises all things up, so too does time wear all things down. Men are dead before they can even be alive. But if you try to force time, and force death, then you will only find much more suffering and hardship in the final hours, in the tragic realizations that all of the things you are now deciding to do with such head-strongedness and determination end up being absolutely nothing, just like everything else.

Man builds out of wood, but the wood rots and get destroyed by weather and eaten by insects. Man builds of brick, but the brick and mortar loses its structural integrity and crumbles to dust. Man builds out of steel, but the steel withers away from years of rust. Everything is fleeting, not just the time that you attempt to fill, but the things you attempt to fill time with as well. It is better to live and leave life empty than to amass some fortune and lose it all in death.

 

[nexion]

It is simply the right thing to do...

This whole post proves to me that you are simply incapable of considering anyone else's perspective. Stop projecting your own standards of success and desires in life on others.

 

[zago]

Ugh. This is going to be kind of sloppy because I am trying to get to bed and I don't want to spend much thought on this tomorrow. But here goes anyway:

So you disagree with me, and I am arrogant. Frankly I don't really care about the arrogance or what you think of it, so I'll just try to get to the heart of this discussion. I'll just say that really, I am expressing disapproval of the types of people who spend hours a day on forums like this. I don't deny that. You seem to think that you have outed me or something because of my tone. I pretty much said it straight up, though. I called everyone losers, didn't I? How much more direct can I be? Didn't exactly have to find that one in the tone.

I think you are ignoring some definite realities. First, I have made it clear that I speak from experience. When I was a member of INTPc, I was a far more active member than I am here, and remembering what I was like, and what other people were like, I can safely describe with some accuracy what goes on here.

Anyway, what kind of person, in lieu of real interaction, opts to become part of a virtual community to the extent that people do here and other places? People cultivate online personalities as if there isn't anyone around for miles in the real world. But there are! I've heard some make the excuse that people in the real world aren't smart enough. This is clearly BS. We all know the internet is notorious for being full of basement dwellers and losers - there's a reason for that. People who escape to the internet for their social interaction have one or more of any number of problems which may include but is not limited to: extreme laziness, depression, social phobia or extreme self consciousness, strange and/or lowly beliefs (like communism, nihilism, atheism, gender issues), unsuccessfulness.. etc.

This is not a fulfilling way to live a social life. Unless you routinely attend meetups, which I have actually seen some people do, the friendships you make on an internet forum are no substitute for IRL ones. It is possible to make online friends, but honestly ask yourself how those friendships compare to IRL friendships. This all begs the question, anyway: why go to the internet to make friends when you don't live in isolation from other human beings? Is it because we can be whoever we want on the internet, without the annoying demands of real life?

The bottom line is, spending upward of an hour a day on a site like this is a sure sign that something is wrong, and even an hour is pushing it. Some, though, go well beyond that. So, take a "look" around you and think about just who you're talking to. I don't see a group of normal people. I see a homogeneous group of people who are also broken, searching, stagnant, and outcast. I also see very few of these people who are willing to admit anything to themselves and will go great lengths to defend their habit, justifying it in whatever way possible.

Regarding purpose: You say you've discarded the notion of purpose. So, do you want nothing out of life (I would find that hard to believe), or have you decided to ignore what you want out of life? It has to be one of the 2.

YOU are the one acting enlightened... "Smiling at flowers" and shit... Please. I'm sure some people here are impressed. If only we could all just figure out how to smile about the simple things like you. If only we could all transcend purpose, and realize nothing has any value!

Regarding quotes: this is where I can really tell you are just arguing to take me down rather than speaking honestly. You even have a quote in you signature. I didn't even name a quote for you to criticize. If you think most quotes are crap, you haven't found the right ones. Here's my favorite quote. It's by George S. Patton: "We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun cocksuckers by the bushel-fucking-basket." Great words. No uncertainty.

Regarding straw-men: that was not a straw man. A straw man would have been if I had argued against a point that you never made. I didn't do that (not even close). I actually made a legitimate dichotomy. If you have desires, you can either accomplish them or let them slip away. I guess you could say there is a middle group of "accomplishing certain desires by default or chance." I consider that the same as letting them slip away, though. Either you put in effort to achieve your dreams or you don't. True dichotomy. Not a straw-man. And I thought you were an expert in rhetorical devices. How embarrassing!

Ultimately, you have at the very least sunken to my level, for better or worse. You are just as sure you're right as I am. I have a novel point, though, and you don't. I've pointed out something about this forum that most people would never address even if they were aware of it, and there is certainly truth to it, whether or not it applies to you specifically. You have used underhanded tactics to make it look like I have no point when I really do. For instance, when I said, "it is simply the right thing to do," I followed that statement with a long explanation of why. You ignored that, and screamed "OUTRAGEOUS ABSOLUTISM! WE DEMAND REASON" or something of the like. You also conveniently ignored the part where I explained the value of accomplishment beyond for its own sake and attempted to turn it into a matter of my needing my ego stroked. Finally, yes, you did imply that I was forcing beliefs on you. You said that I was denying you your right to live out your own delusions. Tsk. You, sir, are an invidious dildo. Invidious dildo!

 

[zago]

oh my god i need to get ripped and buy some flash cards so i can learn a lot of facts.

Makin' fun of education, classy!

 

[Linsejko]

Frankly I don't really care about the arrogance or what you think of it, so I'll just try to get to the heart of this discussion. I'll just say that really, I am expressing disapproval of the types of people who spend hours a day on forums like this. I don't deny that. You seem to think that you have outed me or something because of my tone. I pretty much said it straight up, though. I called everyone losers, didn't I? How much more direct can I be? Didn't exactly have to find that one in the tone.

Well, frankly, I can't imagine anyone cares to listen to someone who speaks like this except people who are already depressed and liked being led around and talked down to. So I don't really care what you think about anyone--that makes us even, I guess.

I think you are ignoring some definite realities. First, I have made it clear that I speak from experience. When I was a member of INTPc, I was a far more active member than I am here, and remembering what I was like, and what other people were like, I can safely describe with some accuracy what goes on here.

You are an expert on you. Unless you were meeting these people in real life, or discussing their internet habits often, you can't really talk about them. Even if you did, you can't be sure the same applies here; I frequently hear people talk about how INTPc has a distinctly unpleasant atmosphere that has caused them to leave and seek refuge here. (I wouldn't know, but it adds a layer of discrediblity, and you already have many...)

Anyway, what kind of person, in lieu of real interaction, opts to become part of a virtual community to the extent that people do here and other places?

Well, you see, that's exactly my point, zago. I don't do that. Nor do I know anyone else who does that. I'm sure there's some minority who do, but I certainly don't get the impression that they're the people on this forum. There's a whole sub forum entitled 'human relationships' I believe, have you noticed? And it's not inactive... If there is some minority of people who are doing this, and who express the opinions you talk about, I don't have any respect for them. I am sad you used to be this kind of person, and glad you moved on beyond it. But stop projecting your personal experiences onto everyone else. I really doubt this radical situation you just described applies to even a significant minority here. (Let's start a poll!)

Regarding purpose: You say you've discarded the notion of purpose. So, do you want nothing out of life (I would find that hard to believe), or have you decided to ignore what you want out of life? It has to be one of the 2.

I have already told you what I want out of life, and I don't ignore it. I pursue it daily. It passes the naive idea of finding fulfillment in grand, meaningless enterprises, and instead opts for pleasure by exploring the depth of my humanity in every individual day. I don't ignore it, I just decided to pursue true satisfaction in place of the mirage that will never satisfy that you are telling everyone here to seek (since they obviously don't know what to do with their lives, and spend no time thinking about this... You do remember this is an INTP forum, right?)

YOU are the one acting enlightened... "Smiling at flowers" and shit... Please. I'm sure some people here are impressed. If only we could all just figure out how to smile about the simple things like you. If only we could all transcend purpose, and realize nothing has any value!

Yeah, it's frustrating when you hear a legitimate counterpoint, isn't it? Not much to say... Great argument. I didn't start some thread telling everyone to think like I do, and that everyone else is wrong, everyone here is a loser, because they must not see what I do. Nil actually posted a philosophy very similar to mine, and we had some interaction several months back when I was first facing this crisis... So there's at least two. I don't know if he moved from that to my current state of enjoying what you can--perhaps he found something better! Or truer! Or different! Who knows?

You're sure some people are impressed? Sounds like you would be impressed if it wasn't directed at you. I appreciate the compliment.

I see a homogeneous group of people who are also broken, searching, stagnant, and outcast.

Welcome to humanity. That's just about all of us. I guess you could call that homogeneous in a way, but I doubt you meant it so poetically. In reality, your view of homogeneousity here is actually just another case-in-point of your myopia and projection, and should be a warning sign to you that you are oversimplifying.

Regarding quotes: this is where I can really tell you are just arguing to take me down rather than speaking honestly. You even have a quote in you signature.

You're kidding me, right? This is where you've done me in, and found I'm dishonest? That quote is by a comedian. It's entirely tongue in cheek. It's exactly an example of a quote that is explicitly unsure of itself, and advising general caution--even against accepting its own advice of caution. From this, you extrapolate that I secretly like quotes and am making shit up to talk you down?

Try again.

I didn't even name a quote for you to criticize.

That's correct. We discussed a certain category of quotes that you described.

If you think most quotes are crap, you haven't found the right ones.

I keep a collection of quotes I like. I've read through thousands and thousands of them in the last several years. I can pull up email conversations with a girl from Kansas I met in Oklahoma as a 14 year old, where we would send pages of our favorite quotes back and forth.

On my ipod touch (it's getting old now and sees less use these days), I have the "10,000 quotes" app, or whatever number it is. I've spent hours and hours slecting my favorites.

I love good quotes. I discard 98% of them. I've found 'the right ones' in my eyes. I have already read a huge amount of bullshit in those quotes, often phrased in overconfident tones. It's dishonest, and leaves a terrible taste in the mouth. It would be a nice exercise to go over good quotes and bad quotes with you to show you my point, if you really are not getting my point.

Here's my favorite quote. It's by George S. Patton: "We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun cocksuckers by the bushel-fucking-basket." Great words. No uncertainty.

Well. I don't know what to say to that. Sounds like a nice line in an action movie. I don't see much depth there. But I digress, honestly--that's irrelevant. There's no uncertainty, and that's fine. I never told you to act uncertain. Don't you get it? You're painting a weak version of my argument to attack instead of actually confronting my words. I'm telling you to speak with a tone of respect that allows the possibility for other people to be right, when talking about other people. You don't tell your peers what to do, you open discussion and advise, get it? You are not above me, or anyone else here. Don't be uncertain, fine. I'm quite confident in my current philosophy. But I live and let live. I'm not posting this. No one else is posting anything like this, in any tone like this. You are treating people like shit. Get it?

Regarding straw-men: that was not a straw man. A straw man would have been if I had argued against a point that you never made. I didn't do that (not even close). I actually made a legitimate dichotomy. If you have desires, you can either accomplish them or let them slip away. I guess you could say there is a middle group of "accomplishing certain desires by default or chance." I consider that the same as letting them slip away, though. Either you put in effort to achieve your dreams or you don't. True dichotomy. Not a straw-man. And I thought you were an expert in rhetorical devices. How embarrassing!

from previous post

We all have dreams or fantasies we would like to live out. No one is actually okay with just letting their desires slip away and living a shoddy life. What brings satisfaction, if not purpose?

Let me make this clear to you. Pay attention closely.

A point that you argued against that I never made:

No one is actually okay with just letting their desires slip away and living a shoddy life.

How are you not seeing this? Could that really be more cut and dry? Did I really not make any point more clear? You went on babbling about how one shouldn't let ones desires slip away and live a shoddy life, when I never advocated such a thing.

Either you put in effort to achieve your dreams or you don't. True dichotomy. Not a straw-man.

Or you don't believe in dreams... False dichotomy. I know that this option doesn't exist in your worldview, but then we're going back to your egotistical view that you have it all right and other worldviews don't exist as possibly legitimate...

How embarrassing? Or are we projecting again?

Ultimately, you have at the very least sunken to my level, for better or worse. You are just as sure you're right as I am.

I never said you had to be unsure about yourself. I have openly stated frequently that I believe I am right and you are wrong, I haven't tried to hide it. I expect most people to think the same. Why is this a point in your favor?

You still don't get it. I don't care what the fuck you think about yourself, I care what you think about others. Or, rather, think whatever the fuck you want to yourself. I just don't want to have to hear your drivel in a public community forum that I enjoy taking part it. You don't have an iota of respect, you are socially handicapped, and you are unfit to participate in this group. You need to learn to have respect for others' viewpoints before trying to participate, does that make sense? This has nothing to do with pretending you don't know if you're right. I have never advocated false humility.

I have a novel point, though, and you don't.

*giggle*

I've pointed out something about this forum that most people would never address even if they were aware of it,

Oh, do you fancy yourself a brave whistle-blower? Are you in one of your movies now, one of your stories of courage, calling people out and changing their lives by making them face reality?

Why am I even bothering with you? Probably because I feel like you need a lesson.

...and there is certainly truth to it, whether or not it applies to you specifically.

Even if there is, you are unfit to speak to them. Whether there is outside of a small minority that you used to be a part of and then imagined everyone as a part of remains to be seen. But yeah, few things are 100% lies... There's truth to it. Hidden among the shit.

You have used underhanded tactics to make it look like I have no point when I really do.

I pride myself on honest debating. You are free to call me out on whatever you like. Let's see the example you gave....

For instance, when I said, "it is simply the right thing to do," I followed that statement with a long explanation of why. You ignored that, and screamed "OUTRAGEOUS ABSOLUTISM! WE DEMAND REASON" or something of the like.

First, I didn't scream. I'm arguing in a clear, pissed off, level headed tone. Don't try and discredit me with ridiculous exaggerations like this.

Second, I wasn't the only one to point out the ridiculous nature of that line. Nil quoted it alone right after me. It stands out as particularly ridiculous, just to help you understand where I'm coming from (since you obviously can't smell your own B.O.).

Third, this is not cable news, nor is this a documentary. People can read the context of your statement above for themselves, and I expect them to have. If I made an illegitimate point by twisting your words, you are free to bring it up and have it quoted in more detail, showing how my point is LIES! ALL LIES!

Fourth, I don't think your context is necessary. That point summed up what was important for me. BUT FOR YOUR VIEWING PLEASURE! Let's take the whole godforsaken paragraph, shall we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snafupants
Why is it important to take advantage of the finite amount of time we have on this planet? Please tell me the value of a remarkable life and define a remarkable life. Also, would you fill everyone in on the unique opportunities that afford youth.

It is simply the right thing to do. We all have dreams or fantasies we would like to live out. No one is actually okay with just letting their desires slip away and living a shoddy life. What brings satisfaction, if not purpose? Is this not the moral of every inspirational movie, like, ever? Rudy (from the football movie Rudy, a true story) didn't just say to himself, damn, I'm too small to play football. He knew he loved football, so he went out and played him some goddamn football. Homer Hickum (from October Sky, which is also a true story) didn't just screw around and accept the fact that he was going to be a coal miner, he got off his ass and educated himself. These movies make us feel good, because we see a hero accomplish something great. I show October Sky to my freshman physics students, and they like the movie, but a lot of them don't make the connection. The point is that education and effort gives you control over your life and allows you to do what you want. This is particularly relevant to them because most of them come from broken homes, crime, and relative poverty. Many if not most will end up in jail, dead early, or working 2 or 3 jobs to support a family. They, being young, don't realize that their futures will be just the same as what they want to escape (if they don't take control). Our circumstances aren't as severe, but they still exist.

Oh, dear god. That's why I didn't quote the whole thing. It's filled with lots of examples that don't do anything for us. Just now, I thought to myself--'oh, but I should at least cut out all the pointless examples...'--but no! We're not going to do anything underhanded here.

So:

1. It is simply the right thing to do. i.e., Why? Because. Duh. You obviously didn't get his point.

2. I do not have dreams and fantasies. And, in fact, neither do most people! My only desire, as I have repeatedly stated (difficult as it is for you to comprehend), is to die as someone that didn't sweat the small stuff and loved every moment given to him. There is no grand scheme to be pursued. (Hey, what do you know--I *did* address this point in my response!)

3. No one is okay letting their desires slip away? Straw man. (Hey, what do you know--I *did* address this point in my response!)

4. I explicitly *don't* believe purpose doesn't bring satisfaction. Goals do tend to give people a kind of motivation to do things, so I have set short term ones to pull me out of depression--say, the trip to South America I'm about to take for 6 months--but it's a mental trick I'm playing on myself. And it won't bring me near as much satisfaction as actually doing this trip. And it certainly isn't my life's purpose. (Hey, what do you know--I *did* address this point in my response!)

5. You are listing hollywood movies as your sources after that to prove your point about something deep in the human psyche. It's really debateable, however, and I didn't feel like getting into it. It's mushy ground. It doesn't clearly support what you are saying, and it will be hard to point it clearly to anything, and would be an inconclusive argument of opinions. So I'll concede the point and move on.

Was I dishonest? Somehow I feel like I wasn't... In fact, it seems a lot like you're the one being dishonest, trying to accuse me of omitting things I wasn't (even though, as I stated before, such omission would be inconsequential given our medium of debate here).

You also conveniently ignored the part where I explained the value of accomplishment beyond for its own sake and attempted to turn it into a matter of my needing my ego stroked.

Let's see what I "ignored" once again....

Secondly, accomplishments are worth more than just about anything. They form the basis of your reputation and self respect. What are you, some egoless deity? The value of accomplishment is a fact of life. Accomplishments aren't necessarily made for their own sake, though. If I successfully start a business, it will be a huge accomplishment, and it will also grant me exactly what I've always wanted: to be in charge (and hopefully obscenely rich).

Hey! Another point that I already acknowledged and responded to! Remember that whole bit about 'reputation is not something I care to consciously advance' and 'self respect is something I have enough of'? Then the 'egoless deity no, attempting egoless mortal yes'? If you want me to continue and expand, let me make your day!

Accomplishments are fine, and do feel good. Some people get a reasonable amount of pleasure from checking something off their checklist. And? Is that really the highlight of life? This seems so silly as to not be worth arguing, so I just pointed out the vanity of your two concrete values.

That particular accomplishment might lead to other things which are good, but that's not really what I'm arguing against. I have nothing against starting a business, if you are enjoying the moments, if you love the challenge, if you delegate the unpleasant parts and don't become a slave to it (as I have personally seen many do). I didn't omit this, I just found it unnecessary to argue in detail. (You'll see this post is excessively long since I'm making sure not to cut any corners this time, to be free from your ridiculous accusations... I'd much rather just hit the points that matter, but evidently you will play dirty.)

Finally, yes, you did imply that I was forcing beliefs on you. You said that I was denying you your right to live out your own delusions.

What I actually wrote:

Who says you can tell me what has value? That means you are deciding you know what's best for my life, what goals to live. I have no problem with you living out your own delusions, I give everyone that right--all I ask is they give me the same. Seriously, get off your pedestal.

Was I implying that I am the one who gives people rights to live, and have the power to deny it? No, I wasn't. I was stating that I have the ability to acknowledge their rights.

I then made a parallel statement, pointing out others should do likewise, connecting you by implication to this parallel.

Remember how my whole point is you're a pompous bastard that is socially handicapped? It has to do with this inability to realize other people have the right to think and live differently. I understand how the language is ambiguous enough to be twisted to what you are trying to say, but I never meant to imply that you were 'forcing your beliefs' on me, in any sense of authority. Maybe that you speak in such a way that frightens me in regards to you potentially having power one day, because you might if given the opportunity, but I gladly recognize, here and now: you have no power to force your beliefs on me. There, satisfied? Clear enough? I never meant to imply otherwise, nor do I understand why this is an important point to you...

Tsk. You, sir, are an invidious dildo. Invidious dildo!

Yeah, well. Stick it up your ass. I'm not trying to make your day, sunshine. Perhaps a dose of your own medicine will do you some good.

Lastly, I know you don't really want to think so much today about this, so I'll save you the effort--just apologize for being an ass. It's hard to do, but it'll be one more step towards growth in humility, and you sure could use one. You would actually build some respect amongst your peers here for it; everyone makes mistakes, and we all have to grow, but it takes a place of serious humility (and I respect nothing more) to acknowledge wrongs.

 

[Cognisant]

Soo much text, so little time.

This is very much a rant, it's very subjective, and it's very hypocritical. And it's arrogant to boot.

The best kind

Anyway what little input of tenuous relevance I'll add is that I wish there was a word for that nostalgic feeling you get when observing somebody else going through an existential crisis that you've already been through.

"Bored" will have to do.

Anyway if you care the important thing to consider here isn't if or not you're wasting your life, because not matter what choices you make in life you'll always be wasting your life by one perspective or another, no y'see the important decision here is to choose if or not you wish to be upset by it. Now I'm not advocating apathy (at the moment) or to consciously push yourself as hard as possible with intentionally unrealistic goals, if I'm advocating anything it's that you should try to find the middle point between these two states, a balance.

Neither apathy nor stress are cool.
Be cool man, be cool

And I apologise if I'm just repeating what's already been said.
But I didn't need a wall of text to say it did I?

 

[AlisaD]

Poor boy.

 

[jameslikespie]

Your acting as if there is one true fucking goal for all of us. Well guess what, there isn't. Life is inherently meaningless and you can do whatever the fuck you want with it, you know why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING! So get of your high horse and calm the hell down because goals are subjective not everyone wants to go to college and become a CEO of a large corporation, okay?

 

[Hadoblado]

oh my god i need to get ripped and buy some flash cards so i can learn a lot of facts.

QFT
Tho I like you're ideas, you must admit you are taking the matter more seriously than you can possibly expect of others. One day I'll get around to fixing my shit up, until then I'll blame subjective values and whatnot.

 

[Panopticon]

Makin' fun of education, classy!

Um, he's making fun of you actually.

 

[Panopticon]

Many projects. Working on starting a business, a book, practicing guitar every day, playing lots of chess, going to the gym a lot trying to get ripped, maintain a social life, and of particular interest, I have started educating myself with flashcards and I'm getting a system down for the best way to learn massive numbers of facts. I have a long way to go with all of these things. This summer I also hope to go mountain climbing in Maine and take another couple minimalist camping trips.

You just described a typical INTP renaissance man. Many of us "work" on starting businesses and books. Practicing guitar is nothing special, many INTP's play instruments. Playing chess and going to the gym, studying flash cards, camping? I hate you tell you bro, but you are WASTING YOUR TIME. Get off your ass and do something. Time is of the essence.

 

[MissQuote]

Your acting as if there is one true fucking goal for all of us. Well guess what, there isn't. Life is inherently meaningless and you can do whatever the fuck you want with it, you know why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING! So get of your high horse and calm the hell down because goals are subjective not everyone wants to go to college and become a CEO of a large corporation, okay?

From what I have noticed, for the most part, the only intelligent people out there who rebel against the idea of higher education tend, in high proportion, to be of the sort who knew it was always a choice (monetarily speaking).

I really don't have anything on topic to add.

I do think that Zago is in the Freak Out period of his life. His frontal lobe is close to full development and the conflict of the dominating Feel Good fighting for its last rights coupled with Rational Thought taking its front seat position finally, instead of circumventing impulse, as has been the case in the previous quarter century, is causing him to jump up and down on an imaginary soapbox upchucking everything the swiriling mass of near full brain development coupled with the height of bodily youth being just over the summit staring down the otherside of forever makes hime think he has figured out is right for the rest of everything because when it comes down to it this is a very look in the mirror and be afraid point in his existance. Happened to me when I was 26 nearly 27.

 

[jameslikespie]

From what I have noticed, for the most part, the only intelligent people out there who rebel against the idea of higher education tend, in high proportion, to be of the sort who knew it was always a choice (monetarily speaking).

I really don't have anything on topic to add.

I do think that Zago is in the Freak Out period of his life. His frontal lobe is close to full development and the conflict of the dominating Feel Good fighting for its last rights coupled with Rational Thought taking its front seat position finally, instead of circumventing impulse, as has been the case in the previous quarter century, is causing him to jump up and down on an imaginary soapbox upchucking everything the swiriling mass of near full brain development coupled with the height of bodily youth being just over the summit staring down the otherside of forever makes hime think he has figured out is right for the rest of everything because when it comes down to it this is a very look in the mirror and be afraid point in his existance. Happened to me when I was 26 nearly 27.

It is a choice for me, I am going to college, i'm just telling him that not everyone wants to do these things so he should stop acting somehow superior.

 

[pjoa09]

OMFG I AM WASTING TIME !!!

*runs away*

 

[sammael]

OMFG I AM WASTING TIME !!!

*runs away*

Lol. Where are you going, sir..?

What happens after you are enlightened? Can you be thrown into a concentration camp and not care, because you are enlightened? Can you be burned alive and feel no pain? Clearly not.

I couldn't resist.. Never heard of Thich Quang Duc zago..?

 

[pjoa09]

Lol. Where are you going, sir..?



I couldn't resist.. Never heard of Thich Quang Duc zago..?

I have a blister on my tongue. Watching that just makes me grateful.

The important thing is, I tried.

In fact, long logical arguments only make you sit here longer talking about more of what isn't quite really more.

You should start making a run too. Although, you might just end up here again anyways, unless if any hobby you have is more enjoyable than the hobby of talking about why you should be in your hobbies even though you are actively engaging in your hobby.

 

[Cosmic]

First off, I haven't read (and probably won't) much past the OP due to the sheer length of the entailing discussion. Having said that:

Zago, if your existence reflects the ideal life your OP calls for, then I commend you. However, I feel as though the thoughts and feelings reflected in your post are full of personal fear and anxiety. This is not to say that I think your post's a waste of time. On the contrary, I very much admire your eloquence and insight. The questions and concerns you've addressed also happen to be those that I'm sure most everybody has thought about, myself all too often. Nor do I find your advice to be hypocritical in nature; ranting is a medium to vent, and I think your post seeks to accomplish that just as much as it seeks to share ideas. As it happens, you DID share them, though, and I want to thank you for that. Time IS a scarcity, and we each have the power to make it an asset or a liability to our own and other people's lives. It's good to be reminded of this. The only input I can think of giving is a reminder that the way you interact with others (online forums included, obviously) is a part of your identity and a reflection of yourself, especially something as personal as the OP. So do try to take something out of this discussion if you can. We ALL have much to learn, so let's learn from each other. =) We're all in this together, after all. And whatever it is that's gotten you down, I hope it comes to pass. Until then and always, may I suggest a journal? Peace.

 

[mke2686]

@zago

 

[shoeless]

i only read the first ten or so posts, because after that i pretty much get the jist of what is going on in this thread. at least i think so.

i mostly agree with what zago is saying. i think he is using the somewhat extreme example of what a certain type of forum-inhabitor does; somebody who really, doesn't socialize much, doesn't like people in general because of this, is depressed, and devotes the majority of his life to the internet. i have known people like that, and i have been that person in the past. zago is right about this person. when one shells himself from experience out of fear, he is doing it wrong. plain and simple.

but to the person who frequents a forum in his spare time as a leisure activity, have at it bro. you might be depressed sometimes, anxious sometimes, and feel aimless sometimes, but you still have a life, you're probably at least mostly content with your life, and you're trying to figure things out. this is normal. this is okay. i think this describes most of the people on this forum, and i think why these people are offended by this thread is because they're taking the extremist point of view too close to heart.

everyone is different, every life has a different aim, blah blah blah. the point is experience. direction is good, sure, it's good to have goals, yes, and of course it's good to work at them. just tailor it in a way that suits you, try new things, don't wall yourself away from the world out of fear. if that's not what you're doing, then good for you. but if it is, that's who has to pay attention to what is being said here.

apologies if this post is sloppy. i just smoked a joint. still try to take me seriously though.

 

[zago]

Lol. Where are you going, sir..?



I couldn't resist.. Never heard of Thich Quang Duc zago..?

Yes. That's who I was thinking of. My point is, I used to be the type to try to get to the same level he is on, where you have overcome suffering to the point of being able to set yourself on fire. Now I just wonder if he was on heroin or something.

Zago, if your existence reflects the ideal life your OP calls for, then I commend you. However, I feel as though the thoughts and feelings reflected in your post are full of personal fear and anxiety.

You're right about that. It's more than just an idea to me. I fear what could happen to my life if I don't start actively trying to make something of it. I deplore my old ways of drifting along, patting myself on the back for what I could be. I've read that INTPs tend to do that, actually. I feel like life is a fight against negative forces now. When in a fight, a sense of fear is unavoidable. Keeps you on your toes. But I mean it. I'm not just enthusiastic. I'm desperate. I know what I don't want to wind up like. Kind of like Scrooge in A Christmas Carol.

This fear is amplified by the fact that a lot of my friends, who I mentioned in the beginning of the OP, are not on this same wavelength. In my long friendships with many of them, I heard them talk about what they want in life, whether they said it directly or not. That's important, because a lot of people won't even directly acknowledge what they want in life because they don't think they can get it. From the outside, I can see what they can't. I know this isn't the right thing to do. I have reason to be frustrated with people.

i mostly agree with what zago is saying. i think he is using the somewhat extreme example of what a certain type of forum-inhabitor does; somebody who really, doesn't socialize much, doesn't like people in general because of this, is depressed, and devotes the majority of his life to the internet. i have known people like that, and i have been that person in the past. zago is right about this person. when one shells himself from experience out of fear, he is doing it wrong. plain and simple.

but to the person who frequents a forum in his spare time as a leisure activity, have at it bro. you might be depressed sometimes, anxious sometimes, and feel aimless sometimes, but you still have a life, you're probably at least mostly content with your life, and you're trying to figure things out. this is normal. this is okay. i think this describes most of the people on this forum, and i think why these people are offended by this thread is because they're taking the extremist point of view too close to heart.

everyone is different, every life has a different aim, blah blah blah. the point is experience. direction is good, sure, it's good to have goals, yes, and of course it's good to work at them. just tailor it in a way that suits you, try new things, don't wall yourself away from the world out of fear. if that's not what you're doing, then good for you. but if it is, that's who has to pay attention to what is being said here.

apologies if this post is sloppy. i just smoked a joint. still try to take me seriously though.

I agree with this.

 

[Solitaire U.]

You have absolutely no reason to be frustrated with people...ABSOLUTELY no reason. You're just looking at it wrong...

Time is merely a commodity...it is LIFE that is precious.

 

[smithcommajohn]

tl;dr

I'm a loser.

 

[zago]

You have absolutely no reason to be frustrated with people...ABSOLUTELY no reason. You're just looking at it wrong...

Time is merely a commodity...it is LIFE that is precious.

Edit: o I just realized you are high. Enjoy.

 

[Vecho]

Even when scrolling to see the end of this thread took ages. How the hell is time precious when we are wasting it on ranting about it being waster?

 

[Solitaire U.]

Even when scrolling to see the end of this thread took ages. How the hell is time precious when we are wasting it on ranting about it being waster?

Are you kidding? This thread is a perfect exemplification of The Grand INTPiquity.

@ zago...

High as a kite I may well be, but I will indulge lofty comforts up here in the clouds whilst you wither below in perpetual frustration.

 

[Lostwitheal]

Time is simply a part of the reality we inhabit, it has no inherent value outside of the value your judgement places upon it.

The same is true about the finite amount of time that you're alive, and even the vanishingly small amount of time that the universe is capable of sustaining life before entropy eventually reduces everything to nothing more than zero point energy.

Carry on.

 

[Lobstrich]

I wanted to reply to this thread but instead I'll just be lazy *cough* dying and losing my time *cough* And quote some replies that I liked, in no particular order. You know, just to show wether I agree with you, or not.

You do of course acknowledge the irony of what a horrendous waste of time that wall of text was, right?

oh my god i need to get ripped and buy some flash cards so i can learn a lot of facts.

This whole post proves to me that you are simply incapable of considering anyone else's perspective. Stop projecting your own standards of success and desires in life on others.

OMFG I AM WASTING TIME !!!

*runs away*

And by the way Zago. You do realise that all happiness is momentary? You keep sort of looking down on smelling roses as a 'source' of happiness. While smelling roses might be a very short happiness. Fulfilling your dreams is just a longer lasting happiness. It will also "fade away like sand in a closed fist" Your dream job will become a regular job at one point.

And just out of curiosity.. What does "learning massive amounts of facts" give you? Lol. The way that you answer that question "I occupy time by reading flash cards and learning facts" As if you genuinly see it as good use of our 'precious time'.. It's just funny to me.

Argh, crap. I said in the beginning I'd only quote out of laziness. Oh well, now I lost 15 minutes more of my life.. Reading your thread, replying.

 

[zago]

And by the way Zago. You do realise that all happiness is momentary? You keep sort of looking down on smelling roses as a 'source' of happiness.

You're right. Those kinds of things anger me because I spent so much time trying to find something that wasn't there. Flowers (and other sense pleasures, I mean) are kinda pretty and all, in passing, but they don't warrant any more observation than what you would give them whether or not you heard some stupid saying telling you to enjoy them. Why does enjoying flowers have to involve effort? Honestly, if you didn't stop to enjoy them before you heard some stupid ass saying about them, why do it now?

While smelling roses might be a very short happiness. Fulfilling your dreams is just a longer lasting happiness. It will also "fade away like sand in a closed fist" Your dream job will become a regular job at one point.

No. I can be a dumbass and smell flowers and ogle trees and try to enjoy every bite of my food now, and keep living in serfdom and try to pretend to enjoy it, or I could not bother with that goofy shit, take control of my life, get really fucking rich, have an awesome family, be really impressive and respectable, and spend my time exploring the corners of the globe and shit. If that includes the possibility of failure, so be it. Hey, that is what this is about isn't it? You guys have made up these stories about how you enjoy the minutia of your lives because you'd rather not risk failure. I get it now.

You know, I think this is what waking up is all about. Realizing that you will not find peace on your own terms, and turning to accept life's callings that you've known about but feared for as long as you can remember. BAM.

And just out of curiosity.. What does "learning massive amounts of facts" give you? Lol. The way that you answer that question "I occupy time by reading flash cards and learning facts" As if you genuinly see it as good use of our 'precious time'.. It's just funny to me.

I guess you have never really known anyone particularly smart; you probably think you are a lot smarter than you are. You're clearly quite self-satisfied. FACT. I mean I'm sure you think you have, and you think you aren't. Plus, it strikes me as absurd that some people here would look down on learning, as if perusing the depths of knowledge is something an idiot would do. If for no other statement in this thread, you should be ashamed of yourself for that.

Now that I've had this flashcard thing going on, I know every single world capital. I know every periodic table element in order of atomic number (and can list them all off in less than 2 minutes). I know every US president in order, the years they served, their vice presidents, and their political party. I know all sorts of shit about Greek mythology that I didn't before. My vocabulary has been enriched. I know a bunch of phrases in Latin that I didn't before. I know all 27 amendments to the U.S. constitution. I know a significant amount more about British literature than before.

You look down on that? Really? I've only been doing this a few months now and it's been work, but I keep doing it and I'm actually going to know a lot of shit. I'm only going to keep going. Now that I've gotten some basic ones out of the way, I just tend to make flashcards of important facts as I read whatever I'm reading at the time, just to make sure I remember key shit. Like I was reading a book about sociopaths today and it was discussing the principles of synderisis (St. Jerome) vs. conscientia (Thomas Aquinas). I'm not the kind of person who can read that on 1 page of a book 1 time and then remember it so well as to bring it up fluently in conversation later on, but I can jot down a flashcard of those 2 things and memorize them, just so I know. I really can't say I knew anything about either of those two guys before--which is unfortunate! Having learned these 2 small facts, I have increased my understanding of the world I live in, broadened myself, and become more useful as a person.

Actually, the more I've read in my short life, the more I've realized that I forget a large portion of what I read about and that if I really wanted something from my reading, I would treat books that I read more like textbooks in a school class and actually study them.

Ya dig? I took a book about investing and made a flashcard of every term in the glossary. Now I know some shit about investing. You may snidely say, "oh, learning the world capitals? PFF, how will that ever get you anywhere?" You need to think a little more carefully. I call it skeletal knowledge. In learning every world capital, I also have learned a great deal about the countries themselves, where they are located (I was even compelled to buy a globe), and even that some of them exist at all (I had never heard of Burkina Faso, for instance, whose capital is Ougadougou. I didn't look that up just now). How far does this get me? Well, when someone is talking about geography or investing now, I am going to be better equipped to understand the conversation and have something to say, which further increases my chances for learning.

I'm a teacher. I value education. I don't think you have to be a teacher to value education, but I can clearly see that most people, including you, and including many teachers, don't actually understand the value of education. Education empowers you - knowledge is power - to a degree that most people can't even begin to understand. Every single fact you know empowers you, gives you control, allows you to live your life how you see fit. Don't you understand what you've been born into? What are the things you never had a choice about? You were born into your country's laws. You were born into your culture's beliefs. You had no say in either of these things, and they may or may not agree with what you would have chosen for yourself. Your very beliefs are at stake here. You are basically enslaved by what you don't know - most of us aren't capable of the kind of thinking required to come up with all the answers for ourselves. Luckily, there is a sea of knowledge to be found in study that will serve to free you and enhance your life.

I can tell you one thing: internet forum / pothead philosophy will NOT enable you to see above the trees. The kind of knowledge history, science, etc. provide is so illuminating, so freeing, that it is a shame most people will never really get to see it with the kind of scope that is required for it to really mean anything. A rudimentary understanding of history might as well be no understanding of history, is what I'm saying.

Anywho, I have lost focus in this rant and I have a feeling it falls on deaf ears anyway. Point is, you are an idiot for deriding my attempts to learn - perhaps the worst of idiots. You have no idea what a horrible thing you've said, and if you knew you'd probably kill yourself or something. If this were another time, you might be at a book burning or perhaps buying indulgences for your dead relatives or participating in some atrocity much, much worse - or just plain terrifying (use your imagination). That you even bothered to point out that it is silly that I am "LEARNING FACTS" makes it clear that you are by definition anti-education, pro-???.

So, after I've been doing flashcards for a few years and know thousands and thousands of relevant, edifying facts by heart, I'll be that much more educated and empowered, and you will probably still be limited by your paltry, superficial understanding of whatever they "taught" you in school (which decays with age!). Not only do I enjoy the present, but I also look forward to the conversations of ever-increasing depth I will be able to have as I continue to broaden my intellectual horizons. Then again, maybe I'll be forget to sniff some fuckin' roses.

 

[Jordan~]

So when other people say things about their lives that disagree with what you've told them about their lives they must be lying?
Did you stop taking pills before you posted these rants, out of curiosity? It's just that they seem kind of schizotypal. I don't know, there's so much that I think is misguided in what you've said that the task of outlining it all seems insurmountable and not worth embarking upon.
You know, it's very easy to stalk the agora with a lamp during the day claiming you're looking for a man. It's far more difficult to tell someone how to be a man. I agree with your principle about living your life, but I think you need a sense of perspective. That isn't always easy. There aren't always things to do. In the north of Scotland, for example, there's so little to do that the suicide rate is significantly higher than in the more densely populated south. Additionally you don't offer anything but a warning - not a solution, just a criticism. Maybe that's your intention, but it's not at all constructive. Naturally, suggesting alternatives would almost be impossible because the solution to each of instance time-wasting would be different. At times it could be as simple as, "You live in London, go outside and do something you shit", at other times it could be as difficult as, "I'm afraid you'll need to move to a country where people do things". Maybe you should set up a free helpline for people who waste their time so they can tell you about their case in detail and you can suggest things for them to do. You could register as a charity and hire staff to research their locations. OR INSTEAD YOU COULD JUST WASTE YOUR BLOODY TIME LIKE AN ASSHOLE CRITICISING STRANGERS ON THE ARSING INTERNET, you hypocrite.

 

[zago]

OR INSTEAD YOU COULD JUST WASTE YOUR BLOODY TIME LIKE AN ASSHOLE CRITICISING STRANGERS ON THE ARSING INTERNET, you hypocrite.

Tsk. Such an immature criticism, hypocrisy. It has nothing to do with the argument at hand. Maybe I am a hypocrite, what does that change? But I really am not one. I spend very little time here, enough for me to fulfill a basic desire to debate. I enjoy a good argument. So what if it gets a little heated? We all chose to be here. Just saying, I meet my own standards. I do not waste countless hours here.

 

[Jordan~]

My point is that instead of bellyaching about the way others choose to live their lives, if you truly believed what you were espousing you'd actually do something positive. If it were really that easy to go out and do something you would be going out and doing something rather than whining about it here. Maybe you do meet your own standards, but if you want other people to meet them posting on a forum with, "Wah wah wah, you don't meet my standards, do something about it, etc." isn't the best way to go about it. Is it?
I think the people here who live tedious, monotonous lives are already quite aware of the fact that they live tedious, monotonous lives and of the fact that time doesn't stand still, and they'd probably rather be doing something else. I wonder what the reason for that could be? If only someone who was seemingly so dissatisfied with the situation that he felt compelled to vent his dissatisfaction to people who aren't really interested in it were to take the time to come up with a theory about it. Maybe it's down to a lack of motivation? I wonder what people could do to motivate themselves, if staring at the clock clearly isn't sufficient motivation in itself. Someone doing that could really help a lot of people out; I mean, imagine if they came up with something really positive and constructive, a solution to offer to people that'd get them leading more fulfilling lives, get them doing the things they want to be doing. That'd be great for everyone. Or instead you could just waste your bloody time etc. etc.

 

[Lostwitheal]

Oh, and Zago, as mentioned before in this thread the value you place on the activites you persue is also subjective and what people here mainly have a problem with, I think, is your implied assumption that your values are correct and universal. For example, the repititous learning of random facts I personally would deem as fairly pointless because:

1: I'm not planning on being a contestant on Jeopardy
2: I'd rather just pick up whatever I manage to pick up naturally than spend hours drumming in things I don't care about because it *might* be handy to know them off the top of my head later
3: Should I need to know any of these things I've realised something incredibly important, and make sure you're sat down for this one because it's a shocker: The internet can be used for things other than porn

Whereas you may value the activity because (and these are just examples...):

1: You're planning on being a contestant on Jeopardy
2: You learn in a different way than I do, and for whatever reason the other activities you engage in do require you to know random crap
3: You haven't yet realised that the internet can be used for things other than porn

 

[Lobstrich]

You're right. Those kinds of things anger me because I spent so much time trying to find something that wasn't there. Flowers (and other sense pleasures, I mean) are kinda pretty and all, in passing, but they don't warrant any more observation than what you would give them whether or not you heard some stupid saying telling you to enjoy them. Why does enjoying flowers have to involve effort? Honestly, if you didn't stop to enjoy them before you heard some stupid ass saying about them, why do it now?

No. I can be a dumbass and smell flowers and ogle trees and try to enjoy every bite of my food now, and keep living in serfdom and try to pretend to enjoy it, or I could not bother with that goofy shit, take control of my life, get really fucking rich, have an awesome family, be really impressive and respectable, and spend my time exploring the corners of the globe and shit. If that includes the possibility of failure, so be it. Hey, that is what this is about isn't it? You guys have made up these stories about how you enjoy the minutia of your lives because you'd rather not risk failure. I get it now.

You know, I think this is what waking up is all about. Realizing that you will not find peace on your own terms, and turning to accept life's callings that you've known about but feared for as long as you can remember. BAM.

I guess you have never really known anyone particularly smart; you probably think you are a lot smarter than you are. You're clearly quite self-satisfied. FACT. I mean I'm sure you think you have, and you think you aren't. Plus, it strikes me as absurd that some people here would look down on learning, as if perusing the depths of knowledge is something an idiot would do. If for no other statement in this thread, you should be ashamed of yourself for that.

Now that I've had this flashcard thing going on, I know every single world capital. I know every periodic table element in order of atomic number (and can list them all off in less than 2 minutes). I know every US president in order, the years they served, their vice presidents, and their political party. I know all sorts of shit about Greek mythology that I didn't before. My vocabulary has been enriched. I know a bunch of phrases in Latin that I didn't before. I know all 27 amendments to the U.S. constitution. I know a significant amount more about British literature than before.

You look down on that? Really? I've only been doing this a few months now and it's been work, but I keep doing it and I'm actually going to know a lot of shit. I'm only going to keep going. Now that I've gotten some basic ones out of the way, I just tend to make flashcards of important facts as I read whatever I'm reading at the time, just to make sure I remember key shit. Like I was reading a book about sociopaths today and it was discussing the principles of synderisis (St. Jerome) vs. conscientia (Thomas Aquinas). I'm not the kind of person who can read that on 1 page of a book 1 time and then remember it so well as to bring it up fluently in conversation later on, but I can jot down a flashcard of those 2 things and memorize them, just so I know. I really can't say I knew anything about either of those two guys before--which is unfortunate! Having learned these 2 small facts, I have increased my understanding of the world I live in, broadened myself, and become more useful as a person.

Actually, the more I've read in my short life, the more I've realized that I forget a large portion of what I read about and that if I really wanted something from my reading, I would treat books that I read more like textbooks in a school class and actually study them.

Ya dig? I took a book about investing and made a flashcard of every term in the glossary. Now I know some shit about investing. You may snidely say, "oh, learning the world capitals? PFF, how will that ever get you anywhere?" You need to think a little more carefully. I call it skeletal knowledge. In learning every world capital, I also have learned a great deal about the countries themselves, where they are located (I was even compelled to buy a globe), and even that some of them exist at all (I had never heard of Burkina Faso, for instance, whose capital is Ougadougou. I didn't look that up just now). How far does this get me? Well, when someone is talking about geography or investing now, I am going to be better equipped to understand the conversation and have something to say, which further increases my chances for learning.

I'm a teacher. I value education. I don't think you have to be a teacher to value education, but I can clearly see that most people, including you, and including many teachers, don't actually understand the value of education. Education empowers you - knowledge is power - to a degree that most people can't even begin to understand. Every single fact you know empowers you, gives you control, allows you to live your life how you see fit. Don't you understand what you've been born into? What are the things you never had a choice about? You were born into your country's laws. You were born into your culture's beliefs. You had no say in either of these things, and they may or may not agree with what you would have chosen for yourself. Your very beliefs are at stake here. You are basically enslaved by what you don't know - most of us aren't capable of the kind of thinking required to come up with all the answers for ourselves. Luckily, there is a sea of knowledge to be found in study that will serve to free you and enhance your life.

I can tell you one thing: internet forum / pothead philosophy will NOT enable you to see above the trees. The kind of knowledge history, science, etc. provide is so illuminating, so freeing, that it is a shame most people will never really get to see it with the kind of scope that is required for it to really mean anything. A rudimentary understanding of history might as well be no understanding of history, is what I'm saying.

Anywho, I have lost focus in this rant and I have a feeling it falls on deaf ears anyway. Point is, you are an idiot for deriding my attempts to learn - perhaps the worst of idiots. You have no idea what a horrible thing you've said, and if you knew you'd probably kill yourself or something. If this were another time, you might be at a book burning or perhaps buying indulgences for your dead relatives or participating in some atrocity much, much worse - or just plain terrifying (use your imagination). That you even bothered to point out that it is silly that I am "LEARNING FACTS" makes it clear that you are by definition anti-education, pro-???.

So, after I've been doing flashcards for a few years and know thousands and thousands of relevant, edifying facts by heart, I'll be that much more educated and empowered, and you will probably still be limited by your paltry, superficial understanding of whatever they "taught" you in school (which decays with age!). Not only do I enjoy the present, but I also look forward to the conversations of ever-increasing depth I will be able to have as I continue to broaden my intellectual horizons. Then again, maybe I'll be forget to sniff some fuckin' roses.

I'll just reply what I have done so many times before..

What you see as "correct" is subjective. Instead you see it as if it's just 'the' path and that every other path is simply, wrong.

In case my quoting of you is a little confusing. I'm just quoting random things that I want to reply to.

I guess you have never really known anyone particularly smart; you probably think you are a lot smarter than you are.

You and I do not have the same definition of 'smart' hence I probably haven't met anyone smart in my life. And that I think you are far from smart, I think you're insanely ignorant, narrow-minded and naive.

I can tell you one thing: internet forum / pothead philosophy will NOT enable you to see above the trees.

This idea that we're all potheads will not get you anywhere. Your assumption is incorrect, at least what goes for me. I have literally never touched any kind of "drug" ("drug" being the illegal ones) And I've never been drunk. Why? Because I agree with you, that it's a waste of time, and it costs money, I'm cheap.

I continue to broaden my intellectual horizons

I don't think you're an intellectual. It requires an open mind, which you do not posses.

No. I can be a dumbass and smell flowers and ogle trees and try to enjoy every bite of my food now, and keep living in serfdom and try to pretend to enjoy it, or I could not bother with that goofy shit, take control of my life, get really fucking rich, have an awesome family, be really impressive and respectable, and spend my time exploring the corners of the globe and shit. If that includes the possibility of failure, so be it. Hey, that is what this is about isn't it? You guys have made up these stories about how you enjoy the minutia of your lives because you'd rather not risk failure. I get it now.

You really, really, really... Really need to star realising that it's subjective. Do you even know what the fucking word means? What you gain from flash cards, some people get from smelling flowers. "take control of my life, get really fucking rich, have an awesome family, be really impressive and respectable" Lol, dude.. Listen to yourself, you're fucking ridiculous, lol. "Be really impressive" Lol... I know I'm resulting to your "petty immature insulting" now. But you're just funny.
And if you wonder why I only quoted that and not "explore the corners of the globe" is because I did not find that part funny. I agree with it. What I want most in this world, is to explore the world. But how is that just not a waste of time in your opinion? When I go to a country and leave it, it's gone. Just like the smell of roses is when you stop smelling.

you are by definition anti-education, pro-???.

If you are the incarnation of 'education' then yes. I'm very much anti-education. Which is not a personal attack on you, I just don't agree with your narrow-minded view on what intelligence and education of oneself is.

Point is, you are an idiot for deriding my attempts to learn - perhaps the worst of idiots. You have no idea what a horrible thing you've said, and if you knew you'd probably kill yourself or something. If this were another time, you might be at a book burning or perhaps buying indulgences for your dead relatives or participating in some atrocity much, much worse - or just plain terrifying (use your imagination).

Dude, what? Lol are you trying to be funny? Because I laughed. And I'm not even trying to insult you. I'm genuinly curious if you were trying to make a joke or if you were being serious.

I'm assuming that you're serious, because what you've said so far, is pretty funny; What you said makes no sense. Because I disagree with your fucking flash cards and tanning beds I'd be burning books and buying indulgences for my dead relatives? What the fuck are you talking about you fucking tool? And don't fucking go "tsk tsk. Resulting to petty insulting, calling me a tool" Not when you called me an idiot you fucking hypocrite. Wow, just wow....

A last thought; I remember you being very convinced that if vocabulary was bad a person must be unintelligent. I suggest you stop the whole "Learn random shit about random shit because I want to be really fucking impressive and say random fucking shit to random fucking people. Ya'dig? ya'dig? shit, shit. Anywho, I'm off to learn some shit" It doesn't sound very intelligent. Lucky for you though, I don't judge peoples intelligence by their vocabulary. I judge their intelligence by their attitude. Which puts you in the bottom part anyway, so keep spouting your impressive vocabulary.

And yes. I'm "resulting to petty insults" you insult me, I will most likely insult you. On top of that, I don't like you.

 

[zago]

I'll just reply what I have done so many times before..

What you see as "correct" is subjective. Instead you see it as if it's just 'the' path and that every other path is simply, wrong.

Subjectivism or relativism are no good. There IS a best way to live, there IS a correct philosophy to have, and I'm not saying I have it, but I am saying I'm closer than say, the Nazis. Of course you could argue, "but zago, that's totally subjective! The Nazis wanted to be Nazis and there is nothing wrong with that! That's their interpretation of the world!" We both know that's not OK. So I am saying, yes, there is objective right and wrong. Perhaps you think I am wrong, but at least don't whine about everything being subjective.

You and I do not have the same definition of 'smart' hence I probably haven't met anyone smart in my life. And that I think you are far from smart, I think you're insanely ignorant, narrow-minded and naive.

This is what I am talking about. It is now even more clear to me you've never met anyone who would be considered a genius. That's fine, not all of us have that privilege, but it shows. Intelligence has an obvious definition. If you ever meet anyone who can expand at length about limnic eruptions (for example) and other abstruse, widely varied topics, you might have a sign that you've met someone really smart. But yes, I think I am smart. I know I'm at least 1 standard deviation above the norm. I also know there are lots of people smarter, some far smarter. That is discouraging, but I still want to make the most of myself.

This idea that we're all potheads will not get you anywhere. Your assumption is incorrect, at least what goes for me. I have literally never touched any kind of "drug" ("drug" being the illegal ones) And I've never been drunk. Why? Because I agree with you, that it's a waste of time, and it costs money, I'm cheap.

You misunderstand. Potheads' philosophy and forum dwellers' philosophy is on the same level of suck, from what I've seen.

I don't think you're an intellectual. It requires an open mind, which you do not posses.

Intellectuals have a terrible track record. But I was saying it more in the sense that if you have an intellect, which we all do, then you can expand your intellectual horizons.

You really, really, really... Really need to star realising that it's subjective. Do you even know what the fucking word means? What you gain from flash cards, some people get from smelling flowers. "take control of my life, get really fucking rich, have an awesome family, be really impressive and respectable" Lol, dude.. Listen to yourself, you're fucking ridiculous, lol. "Be really impressive" Lol... I know I'm resulting to your "petty immature insulting" now. But you're just funny.
And if you wonder why I only quoted that and not "explore the corners of the globe" is because I did not find that part funny. I agree with it. What I want most in this world, is to explore the world. But how is that just not a waste of time in your opinion? When I go to a country and leave it, it's gone. Just like the smell of roses is when you stop smelling.

Not really. When you go to a country and leave it, you may still have pictures, stories, friends, and the indelible fact that you made the journey and are now a more seasoned, knowing person. When you smell a rose, you have garnered a much smaller experience. Still a pleasure, but not exactly one that "gets you anything."

But it is nice to see that you do have a dream. Learning will empower you to achieve that dream. I learn facts and knowledge because I have a wide array of dreams to the extent that I feel a holistic approach is best. If your only dream is to travel the world, I guess you don't really need to bother learning in depth about any subject as much as you just need to make a bunch of money so you can afford travel's many expenses. Make no mistake, though; knowing a lot of shit will help you make more money. It opens up opportunities and increases your abilities. I feel that increasing my personal value will roughly equate to increasing my monetary value. Thus, if I am very smart, am in excellent physical shape, etc. I will actually have more money in the long run simply because I have a higher personal value.

Regarding your derision of my wanting to be impressive, I think you should really examine how you feel about that again. I know that when I have kids I want them to look up to me; I want to be able to answer their questions; I want them to know that they can look to me and not whoever else wants to compete for influence. I see learning as fun and interesting for its own sake, but I also see it as a responsibility. A failure to learn is a failure to take control - there is evil in the world, and thinking is what keeps it suppressed. The worst atrocities of history took place because of poorly educated, unthinking people. Minor atrocities go on as well for those unaware. The more you know, the more you are empowered.

So yes, I want to be worth something to people--I want to be impressive and respectable.

If you are the incarnation of 'education' then yes. I'm very much anti-education. Which is not a personal attack on you, I just don't agree with your narrow-minded view on what intelligence and education of oneself is.

Just how much more is there than what I have described? I'm not only expanding my knowledge, but also my creativity and activity in general. If those aren't elements of your version of education, well...

Dude, what? Lol are you trying to be funny? Because I laughed. And I'm not even trying to insult you. I'm genuinly curious if you were trying to make a joke or if you were being serious.

Serious. You say, "ha ha, you are trying to LEARN with FLASHCARDS? How ignorant and narrow minded you are!" You are the one who needs to listen to yourself. I know that what I'm doing is uncommon and that most people don't have that kind of thirst for information, but you can at least respect it.

I'm assuming that you're serious, because what you've said so far, is pretty funny; What you said makes no sense. Because I disagree with your fucking flash cards and tanning beds I'd be burning books and buying indulgences for my dead relatives? What the fuck are you talking about you fucking tool? And don't fucking go "tsk tsk. Resulting to petty insulting, calling me a tool" Not when you called me an idiot you fucking hypocrite. Wow, just wow....

Tsk tsk. Resulting to petty insulting, calling me a tool.

But seriously, "idiot" has a much more specific meaning than "tool" in this case, and I had good reason to call you it, which I have already explained.

A last thought; I remember you being very convinced that if vocabulary was bad a person must be unintelligent. I suggest you stop the whole "Learn random shit about random shit because I want to be really fucking impressive and say random fucking shit to random fucking people. Ya'dig? ya'dig? shit, shit. Anywho, I'm off to learn some shit" It doesn't sound very intelligent. Lucky for you though, I don't judge peoples intelligence by their vocabulary. I judge their intelligence by their attitude. Which puts you in the bottom part anyway, so keep spouting your impressive vocabulary.

Attitude has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence, period. A stupid person can have a great attitude. You are talking about wisdom. Wisdom is good, but let's not get the 2 confused.

So yes, you can judge a person's intelligence by their vocabulary.

I try to keep it real, though - not going to pretend that I don't swear. I give you credit for understanding my meaning without my having to saying something pretentious like "now, I am imminently going to edify myself on a plethora of subjects" to sound smart.

Let's not get confused again, though, with my criticism of that one person (whatever her name was.. boondock or something) for her terrible spelling or grammar. That was beyond ridiculous - the person typed 1 sentence and couldn't even bother to check it. There's a big difference there.

And yes. I'm "resulting to petty insults" you insult me, I will most likely insult you. On top of that, I don't like you.

The difference is, I do so with reason. Your stated reason for insulting me is that I insulted you. My reason for insulting you is that you said something idiotic.

 

[zago]

For example, the repititous learning of random facts I personally would deem as fairly pointless because:

1: I'm not planning on being a contestant on Jeopardy
2: I'd rather just pick up whatever I manage to pick up naturally than spend hours drumming in things I don't care about because it *might* be handy to know them off the top of my head later
3: Should I need to know any of these things I've realised something incredibly important, and make sure you're sat down for this one because it's a shocker: The internet can be used for things other than porn

I am here to explain to you why you should rethink your reasoning.

1 - Knowledge is important for more than just trivia games.
2 - No pain no gain. When you want to be good at something, you've got to work at it. Picking up things naturally will only get you so far. Be too casual and one day you'll realize you aren't actually very good at anything, which is kind of the conclusion I've come to about myself. Also, there is no "might" about it. Certain facts I learn may never be used, but if I learn thousands of facts, then many of them will definitely come up.
3 - I used to make this same mistake in thinking. The truth is, knowing things is far better than looking them up. For example, when you are having a conversation with someone, you can't just use the internet as you go. I memorized a deck of flashcards about Greek mythology, and I had a surprisingly fun conversation with a few of my students about Greek mythology not long afterward. I wasn't like, "ok, I want to participate in this conversation with you guys, but I'm gonna need to get to a computer, so..."

 

[Lobstrich]

Subjectivism or relativism are no good. There IS a best way to live, there IS a correct philosophy to have, and I'm not saying I have it, but I am saying I'm closer than say, the Nazis. Of course you could argue, "but zago, that's totally subjective! The Nazis wanted to be Nazis and there is nothing wrong with that! That's their interpretation of the world!" We both know that's not OK. So I am saying, yes, there is objective right and wrong. Perhaps you think I am wrong, but at least don't whine about everything being subjective.

This is what I am talking about. It is now even more clear to me you've never met anyone who would be considered a genius. That's fine, not all of us have that privilege, but it shows. Intelligence has an obvious definition. If you ever meet anyone who can expand at length about limnic eruptions (for example) and other abstruse, widely varied topics, you might have a sign that you've met someone really smart. But yes, I think I am smart. I know I'm at least 1 standard deviation above the norm. I also know there are lots of people smarter, some far smarter. That is discouraging, but I still want to make the most of myself.


You misunderstand. Potheads' philosophy and forum dwellers' philosophy is on the same level of suck, from what I've seen.


Intellectuals have a terrible track record. But I was saying it more in the sense that if you have an intellect, which we all do, then you can expand your intellectual horizons.


Not really. When you go to a country and leave it, you may still have pictures, stories, friends, and the indelible fact that you made the journey and are now a more seasoned, knowing person. When you smell a rose, you have garnered a much smaller experience. Still a pleasure, but not exactly one that "gets you anything."

But it is nice to see that you do have a dream. Learning will empower you to achieve that dream. I learn facts and knowledge because I have a wide array of dreams to the extent that I feel a holistic approach is best. If your only dream is to travel the world, I guess you don't really need to bother learning in depth about any subject as much as you just need to make a bunch of money so you can afford travel's many expenses. Make no mistake, though; knowing a lot of shit will help you make more money. It opens up opportunities and increases your abilities. I feel that increasing my personal value will roughly equate to increasing my monetary value. Thus, if I am very smart, am in excellent physical shape, etc. I will actually have more money in the long run simply because I have a higher personal value.

Regarding your derision of my wanting to be impressive, I think you should really examine how you feel about that again. I know that when I have kids I want them to look up to me; I want to be able to answer their questions; I want them to know that they can look to me and not whoever else wants to compete for influence. I see learning as fun and interesting for its own sake, but I also see it as a responsibility. A failure to learn is a failure to take control - there is evil in the world, and thinking is what keeps it suppressed. The worst atrocities of history took place because of poorly educated, unthinking people. Minor atrocities go on as well for those unaware. The more you know, the more you are empowered.

So yes, I want to be worth something to people--I want to be impressive and respectable.

Just how much more is there than what I have described? I'm not only expanding my knowledge, but also my creativity and activity in general. If those aren't elements of your version of education, well...

Serious. You say, "ha ha, you are trying to LEARN with FLASHCARDS? How ignorant and narrow minded you are!" You are the one who needs to listen to yourself. I know that what I'm doing is uncommon and that most people don't have that kind of thirst for information, but you can at least respect it.

Tsk tsk. Resulting to petty insulting, calling me a tool.

But seriously, "idiot" has a much more specific meaning than "tool" in this case, and I had good reason to call you it, which I have already explained.

Attitude has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence, period. A stupid person can have a great attitude. You are talking about wisdom. Wisdom is good, but let's not get the 2 confused.

So yes, you can judge a person's intelligence by their vocabulary.

I try to keep it real, though - not going to pretend that I don't swear. I give you credit for understanding my meaning without my having to saying something pretentious like "now, I am imminently going to edify myself on a plethora of subjects" to sound smart.

Let's not get confused again, though, with my criticism of that one person (whatever her name was.. boondock or something) for her terrible spelling or grammar. That was beyond ridiculous - the person typed 1 sentence and couldn't even bother to check it. There's a big difference there.

The difference is, I do so with reason. Your stated reason for insulting me is that I insulted you. My reason for insulting you is that you said something idiotic.

I cannot be bothered with this multi quoting. It's tedious, and your ignorance is through the fucking roof. You're not worth the little, and not at all energy consuming work it requires to multi-quote.

I disagree with almost all you say, and I still think you're ignorant, narrow-minded and naive.

 

[Causeless]

I disagree with the subject matter (Mostly the original post) on a different principle:


I have no reason to believe time is as I observe it. Investigation and abstract thought has shown me that the concept of time is FAR more complicated than 'River that flows forward'. What is forward? If I'm running out of time, shouldn't my first goal in life be figuring out a way to slow it down? If you would think a little further, you'd realize you're making quite a few reckless assumptions about how the world works.

I'm running out of time? How can I even be sure enough what time is to extrapolate that? What is a city to an ant in it's park?


When you're doing a puzzle, and can't find a piece, do you cut out a new one to fit the shape and draw on it? Your puzzles must look pretty funny.

 

[Lobstrich]

I disagree with the subject matter (Mostly the original post) on a different principle:


I have no reason to believe time is as I observe it. Investigation and abstract thought has shown me that the concept of time is FAR more complicated than 'River that flows forward'. What is forward? If I'm running out of time, shouldn't my first goal in life be figuring out a way to slow it down? If you would think a little further, you'd realize you're making quite a few reckless assumptions about how the world works.

I'm running out of time? How can I even be sure enough what time is to extrapolate that? What is a city to an ant in it's park?


When you're doing a puzzle, and can't find a piece, do you cut out a new one to fit the shape and draw on it? Your puzzles must look pretty funny.

I like this thought. A little to "what is life?.. What is existence?" but I still like it, lol.