This Insult Cannot be Tolerated

[lightspeed]

Gharbzadegi (Persian: غربزدگی ) is a pejorative Persian term often translated as "Westoxication," "West-struck-ness" or Occidentosis. It is used to refer to the loss of Iranian cultural identity through the adoption and imitation of Western models and Western criteria in education, the arts, and culture; through the transformation of Iran into a passive market for Western goods and a pawn in Western geopolitics.

The phrase was first coined by Ahmad Fardid (University of Tehran Professor) in the 1940s, it gained common usage following the clandestine publication in 1962 of the book Occidentosis: A Plague from the West by Jalal Al-e Ahmad, an eminent Iranian writer. It has also been translated as "Euromania", "Weststruckness", "Westernitis", and "Westoxication."

Al-e Ahmed's idea

Al-e Ahmed describes Iranian behavior in the 20th Century as being "Weststruck." The word was play on the dual meaning of "stricken" in Persian, which meant to be afflicted with a disease or to be stung by an insect, or to be infatuated and bedazzled.[1]

I say that gharbzadegi is like cholera [or] frostbite. But no.It's at least as bad as sawflies in the wheat fields. Have you ever seen how they infest wheat? From within. There's a healthy skin in places, but it's only a skin, just like the shell of a cicada on a tree.[2]

Al-e Ahmad argued that Iran must gain control over machines and become a producer rather than a consumer, even though once having overcome Weststruckness it will face a new malady - also western - that of "machinestruckness."

The soul of this devil `the machine` [must be] bottled up and brought out at our disposal ... [The Iranian people] must not be at the service of machines, trapped by them, since the machine is a means not an end.[3]

Typical nationalism, and envy of other, more successful countries.

As I said, the idea that it's wrong to be intolerant of intolerance is absurd.

 

[SpaceYeti]

There is the numinous Islamic way and the profane Western way. There can be no compromise.

'After taking the high seat to preach to the assembly, Fa-Yen raised his hand and pointed to the bamboo blinds. Two monks went over and rolled them up in the same way. Fa-Yen said, "One gains, one loses." '

-Koan

What do you propose instead of compromise? War? Who do you think has the upper hand, there? The West, with it's superior numbers and technology, or the middle east, with it's... what, 20 year old AKs and improvised explosives?

Why is our technology superior? What does your God do to equalize this? If your God cares so much about this conflict, why does he not reveal himself in an unambiguous way in order to convert the infidels?

 

[lightspeed]

Lyra, please do not think I am attacking you personally. In the end, your beliefs are just as valid as any other person here. I'm just giving my opinion, and a generalization of how I see it.


I can see both sides to this, and understand how it very well could be taken as an insult. I'm in no way saying that it is NOT an insult... I just lean further to the idea that the liberty should be guaranteed. All religions get their own form of hazing in any free nation. However, as long as the folks aren't stopped from doing these things...the world has every right to condemn it. BUT... If people are murdered because of any one group or person burning the Koran...I would never blame the book burners.

You do seem like a very strong person, and that is admirable. I just don't agree with you. That's all.

 

[Lyra]

(Cross-post. This is in reply to #51.)

No, lightspeed. I fear that you are mistaken.

It is a healthy sense of what is neccessary to maintain one's own ethos-- the lifeblood of one's own race. Gharbzadegi is indeed a global pandemic, and it is only we Muslims, because of the strength of our conviction in the goodness and honour of the Deen bestowed by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala, who are resisting its homogeneity. Only we, Insha'Allah, resist the machination and materialisation of the human spirit which the western hordes would impose universally if unchecked.

Attributing this will to resist the profane to 'Nationalism' is the typical, mundane thinking of the Kuffar. If we thought as Kuffar did, we would long ago have surrendered to the will of such Kuffar, zionist entities as the UN.

 

[Oblivious]

Freedom of Speech is not just a freedom, it is a form of power. You cannot deny the power of words and their capacity to move society. Just like other forms of power like nuclear energy or fire, the power of speech has the capacity to bring down empires and destroy societies.

If other forms of power should have limitations on their purposes, so should the freedom of speech.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/safrica-court-blocks-indian-muslims-plan-to-burn-bible/680420/

If burning bibles should be blocked, so should the burning of the Quran, so should any invitation to persecute our fellow men like the advocacy of slavery. Any threat to social stability should be opposed by any society that wishes to maintain its social fabric. Defending the right to harm one another whether physical or psychological means sacrificing others right to be free of harm.

I would simply rather protect then destroy my society. You can go on TV and say certain Muslims are violent, that's true and draws attention to extremist elements of Muslim society and creates discourse. However, burning a Quran achieves nothing but the agitation of Muslim members whether or not they riot.

Even if Muslims would not riot, it still would not be fine because it encourages persecution and fear of Muslims and is a form of racism. If you do not encourage the subordination of women and the slavery of African Americans, you should not encourage religious sacrilege.

 

[Oblivious]

Lyra, your generalisations of the west are no different from from the generalisations of the pastor burning the Quran. You are not helping. You are one and the same.

 

[Lyra]

Lyra, your generalisations of the west are no different from from the generalisations of the pastor burning the Quran. You are not helping. You are one and the same.

There is the numinous Islamic way and the profane Western way. There can be no compromise.

'After taking the high seat to preach to the assembly, Fa-Yen raised his hand and pointed to the bamboo blinds. Two monks went over and rolled them up in the same way. Fa-Yen said, "One gains, one loses." '

-Koan

Oh, I know.

 

[Lyra]

“They [the kafiroon] want to extinguish Allah’s Light with their deceit, their lies.” 9: 32 Interpretation of Meaning


How dare the kuffar in their kufr - in their abject ignorance, in their utter hypocrisy - criticize us for defending the Mujahideen who are fighting their invasion and occupation of our lands, and their interference in our affairs.

How dare the kuffar in their kufr call us "extremists" and "preachers of hate" for thanking Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala when some of their soldiers are killed while they are doing their kaffir "duty" of occupying our lands and killing our brothers and sisters in the thousands, year after bloody year. For it is you, the kuffar, who are the extremists and the preachers of hate for it is you who have invaded and who occupy our lands, who interfere in our affairs - militarily, politically, economically - and who have so far been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of our brothers and sisters in the last nine years alone.

How dare the kuffar in their utter hypocrisy call for censorship and the removal of Internet sites and forums which detail and which celebrate our victories as opposed to theirs.

We are not the ones who have invaded and occupied - and who occupy, year after year - your lands by force of arms and who kill and imprison those opposed to such an invasion and such an occupation.

We are not the ones who routinely murder - who summarily execute, without trial - by missiles and unmanned drones anyone deemed a "threat" and who regularly kill, injure and maim by such missiles and such drones hundreds of woman and children, year after year.

We are not the ones who have kidnapped, tortured, and imprisoned without trial, thousands upon thousands of men and women, year after year.


We are not the ones spending of billions of billions of dollars to maintain hundreds of thousands of troops in foreign lands, as we are not the ones who have military bases in other lands.

We are not the ones who shut down Internet sites and forums and blogs when such sites and such forums and blogs celebrate the killing of our brothers and sisters and celebrate the continued occupation of our lands.



Why do you, you kuffar, continue to lie and to deceive your own people, year after year? Thus, you try to make your killing of our brothers and sisters in our own lands "acceptable" to your people by calling those whom you routinely kill and imprison - and who are resisting your occupation of their lands - "extremists", or "militants" or "terrorists" or "supporters of terrorism". Thus, you try to portray yourself and your forces of occupation as "bringers of peace" although, as Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:


" There is a sickness within which ails them and Allah has increased this sickness because they lie even to themselves: For this, they will grievously suffer. And when someone says to them: "Do not be so ignoble on this earth," They reply: "We are only bringing peace!" 2:10-11 Interpretation of Meaning




You seem to fail to understand - in your abject arrogance and because of your fanatical neo-colonialism - that however many of our lands you invade and occupy, however many of our brothers ad sisters you kill for resisting your invasions and your occupations and your interference in our affairs - that, compared to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala, you are nothing; that all your weapons, all your lies, all your propaganda, all your wealth, all your scheming, all your killings and all your torture and imprisonment of our brothers and sisters around the world will not bring you the success, the victory, you desire. For all such worldly things can - and InshaAllah will - be swept away in an instant by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala, and because you - despite your possession of such things and your desire to acquire more - cannot ever destroy the Eemaan that lives within our hearts, year after year, decade after decade, century after century.


We - who defy your arrogance and the Tawagheet, the idols, that you worship (such as democracy and nationalism) - have a simple purity of faith which, generation after generation, lives within our Ummah, despite your best efforts to destroy it. And it is this simple purity of faith - of total trust in Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and total reliance on Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala - that distinguishes you and us, for as Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:


"And all that they devised will be removed from them" 10:30 Interpretation of Meaning

"The words of your Rabb are complete, perfect - manifesting truth, justice, and nothing shall ever abrogate them." 6:115 Interpretation of Meaning


"And it is our forces who will be victorious." 37: 173 Interpretation of Meaning



Thus do we and thus will we - whatever you may say or do - celebrate the victories of the Mujahideen who are resisting your occupation of our lands, resisting your interference in our affairs, and who are striving to implement the hukm of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala.




A Servant of Allah
1 Ramadan 1430

Credit DWM

 

[SpaceYeti]

“They [the kafiroon] want to extinguish Allah’s Light with their deceit, their lies.” 9: 32 Interpretation of Meaning

I actually want to extinguish it with the truth and reasoning, since it's a silly thing to believe in and does not stand up to critical analysis. Critical analysis, by the way, is one of those things religious zeal does not allow, specifically because it would cause the downfall of the religion.

 

[lightspeed]

Don't think that I agree with the unnecessary occupation of what you would call the Kafir. Don't think that I agree with the idea that Israel should have dominance over any of the middle east.

I disagree with any religious ignorance, be it Christian, Juche, etc. The idea that any type of bigotry needs any type of military support or expansion bothers me. Of course I have witnessed many wrongs done by nations and religions. However, it equally bothers me that some would suggest that such things should be remedied with more violence and intolerance?

Is it wrong to fight for what you believe in? Nope, it is noble. While the Christians make up a large part of Western Culture, at least most of them have learned not to push their beliefs on to the people who do not agree with them. In fact, most seem very comfortable with the thought of me going to hell, and not being included into their retarded reunion in the clouds.

 

[Oblivious]

Lyra, I called your bluff in the other thread and I will do so here.

You are not Muslim at all. You are not Muslim any more then a Creationist is a scientist. You will stop your lies about Islam or I will report you and get you banned.

 

[Lyra]

Hoping that I do not impinge upon the etiquette of this forum, I simply quote my reply to you there:

Lyra is a massive troll trying to get people to hate Islam by spreading blasphemy. Yes he is spreading blasphemy. He is not a follower or representative of the religion in any way, shape or form.

I do not represent 'the religion', no. That is the entire message of this post, to which the eyes of Kuffar are blind.

It is a blasphemy to your western 'Tawagheet', indeed. And a blashempy to the westernised 'Islamic religion' which westernised media has propagated with such cunning.

Know that this distortion cannot sway the hearts of the vast majority of Muslims worldwide-- and certainly not the hearts of the truly faithful.

And, I ask you this: the words I have quoted from the holy Qu'ran, in this thread and the thread 'This Insult Cannot be Tolerated',-- are they blasphemy to true Al-Islam?

No. They are the words of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala. They are simply not amenable to the distorted selective interpretation which you find comfortable. Which you call 'religion'.

 

[Black Rose]

Lyra

Is kuffar an Islamic term for white Niger?

I agree that its wrong for the west to kill millions and millions of Muslims but really? White Niger?

I for one have never killed a Muslim or anyone else for that matter in my entire life. My western government has not fooled me into believing Muslims are evil. My western government has committed genocide against Muslims. But no one will sympathize with you Lyra if call them kuffar all the time. Your holy book is worthless if you blame the ignorant and not the guilty.

 

[Lyra]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir

as distinct from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaffir_%28racial_term%29


In response to those western liberals who claim to 'disagree' with colonial policies, or not to have participated in them: your words, particularly given your failure to fight for them, mean little to those of my brothers and sisters who have lost relatives, or even their entire communities, to the armies of your democratically elected governments.

 

[Oblivious]

Lyra, those are republicans you speak of. They have lied to and misled the American people into two false wars that have unfortunately resulted in the suffering of the people in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Americans have no stomach for conquest. Two thousand of them have recently banded together to defend the right of the construction of a Mosque near the site of the twin towers in New York city. Americans are not perfect. As the most powerful country in the world, their mistakes carry the heaviest consequences, but they are learning and I believe trying to right their wrongs.

 

[lightspeed]

In response to those western liberals who claim to 'disagree' with colonial policies, or not to have participated in them: your words, particularly given your failure to fight for them, mean little to those of my brothers and sisters who have lost relatives, or even their entire communities, to the armies of your democratically elected governments.

It was just as tough for me to watch the video leaked about the Apache helicopter gun operator with a hard on for killing, as it was to watch the Nick Berg decapitation. Killing is always wrong, unless you have no other choice. I'm pretty sure that everyone here realizes that there are sick minded people in every country in the world. We aren't oblivious to the fact that atrocities have been committed, both in the public eye, and in secret.

There are certain instances, however, when human rights are being violated, that we should assault forward and liberate the oppressed. The Allied invasion of Normandy was a brilliant example. Even though I was not alive to participate, I would have gladly done so if given the opportunity!


Do I believe that the Sharia Law has been the cause of serious human rights violations? Hell yeah, I do. I also think it's important to liberate those who are victims of oppression and violence. No, I don't think it's right to execute (murder) women suspected of adultery, nor do I think it's correct to execute people who refuse to accept a distorted version of God, that you call Allah!

I, however, do not believe that human rights has been our primary motivation in most of this. That saddens me. I believe that North Korea has been ignored, as well. We need to focus our military efforts in a way that doesn't coincide with any kind of ideological bigotry, and only promotes peace and honors life...no matter what religion a person might be.

 

[Oblivious]

Lightspeed:

Lyra is intentionally spreading the fanatical version of Islam in an effort to get you to think that that is what Islam is about. Do not listen to him. That is NOT what Islam is about.

 

[lightspeed]

Lightspeed:

Lyra is intentionally spreading the fanatical version of Islam in an effort to get you to think that that is what Islam is about. Do not listen to him. That is NOT what Islam is about.

Thanks for noting that. If this can be proven, than Lyra will be punished, according to forum policy.

However, and without any intent on insulting any of our members... I have read the English translation of the Koran, and do believe that it teaches both violence, and intolerance. I understand that Lyra is promoting an extreme and literal interpretation of what he thinks Islam is about. Clearly, I do understand that not all Muslims think or represent themselves in this manner. Nor, would I hate anyone who believed the teachings of the Koran. Thank God for those who are able to read a book, and understand the symbolism, and take away the morals and principles...but damn those who take any such literature and try to expand, upon me and my fellow man, any extreme, and violent elements. Be it Christians, or Muslims.


I don't have a problem with Muslims. I just don't want my toes getting stepped on. :P

 

[Claverhouse]

All the same though, I'd like to go to that "church" and burn some bibles on the sidewalk in front and see how the react. We can call it science! Who's with me?

Old Pastor Jones is unlikely to cut off your head and video it.

Heinrich Heine said, where they burn books, in the end, they'll burn people too. That was in 1821.

And the nazis symbolically burnt copies of books and then went on to kill people: the Allies then burnt every copy of nazi books they could find, but they'd already burnt their victims...

As for Harry, I'm pretty sure that in his vacillations betwixt the judaism of his fathers which cramped him, his convenient new-found conversion to christianity, and his ghastly progressivist liberalism which veered between admiring dictators and cheering on fat middle class revolutionaries, he'd be a neo-con by now.

Particularly as Islam has burnt a lot of books in it's time, starting with Omar, and quite a lot of people: most recently on 9/11.

Lightspeed:

Lyra is intentionally spreading the fanatical version of Islam in an effort to get you to think that that is what Islam is about.

Or Girls Just Want To Have Fun... It's as valid a motive as any others we have in this vail of tears.





Claverhouse

 

[typus]

Claverhouse

You ending all your comments like this makes me think of Family Guy.

 

[Oblivious]

I've been so massively trolled I must paddle myself in shameful repentance.

 

[Black Rose]

Islam has burnt a lot of books in it's time, starting with Omar, and quite a lot of people: most recently on 9/11.

Are you implying that Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld are Muslim?

Next you'll say Hitler was a good christian for killing Jews.

 

[Don't mind me]

Are you implying that Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld are Muslim?

Next you'll say Hitler was a good christian for killing Jews.

You're just all over the place with conspiracy theories, but you never elaborate on them. You just throw something brief out there, often with, for an average viewer, incomprehensible videos (on account of how they're all already convinced about things akin to, or actually being, quantum mysticism, UFO theories etc.) but barely ever follow it up or even acknowledge any response you get. What's up?

 

[Black Rose]

You're just all over the place with conspiracy theories, but you never elaborate on them. You just throw something brief out there, often with, for an average viewer, incomprehensible videos (on account of how they're all already convinced about things akin to, or actually being, quantum mysticism, UFO theories etc.) but barely ever follow it up or even acknowledge any response you get. What's up?

Ask a direct question and I will answer it.

EDIT: It pisses me off that people think I'm crazy. Perhaps I don't give a damn anymore. I just want to tell the truth as I see it. Genuine questions will be answered.

 

[Words]

Thanks for noting that. If this can be proven, than Lyra will be punished, according to forum policy.

You could go into historical relevance to determine motivation: past 'projects' and such.

However, and without any intent on insulting any of our members... I have read the English translation of the Koran, and do believe that it teaches both violence, and intolerance. I understand that Lyra is promoting an extreme and literal interpretation of what he thinks Islam is about. Clearly, I do understand that not all Muslims think or represent themselves in this manner. Nor, would I hate anyone who believed the teachings of the Koran. Thank God for those who are able to read a book, and understand the symbolism, and take away the morals and principles...but damn those who take any such literature and try to expand, upon me and my fellow man, any extreme, and violent elements. Be it Christians, or Muslims.


I don't have a problem with Muslims. I just don't want my toes getting stepped on. :P

Does it make sense that the Qur'an is also literally promoting tolerance and nonviolence? There's, of course, two transitions that affects the 'objective meaning': the literary translation of language, and the interpretation of the person. Literal meaning and Symbolical meaning does not seem to be mutually exclusive.

"O mankind! We created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know and honor each other (not that you should despise one another). Indeed the most honorable of you in the sight of God is the most righteous."

Chapter 49, Verse 13

"God does not forbid you to be kind and equitable to those who have neither fought against your faith nor driven you out of your homes. In fact God loves the equitable."

Chapter 60, Verse 8

Particularly as Islam has burnt a lot of books in it's time, starting with Omar, and quite a lot of people: most recently on 9/11.

You mean "Muslims". Accuracy is important in this sort of setting.

Or Girls Just Want Fun... It's as valid a motive as any others we have in this vail of tears.

You ending all your comments like this makes me think of Family Guy.

Yeah~ the signature..

 

[Don't mind me]

Ask a direct question and I will answer it.

EDIT: It pisses me off that people think I'm crazy. Perhaps I don't give a damn anymore. I just want to tell the truth as I see it. Genuine questions will be answered.

Yeah, that's understandable. But unfortunately, I am one of those who think you to be crazy. I think I'm not open-minded enough to ever consider most of the things you write in a serious way. sorry.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I personally can't wait for Lyra's week of being a scientologist. That will be deserving of extra butter on the popcorn. Any ideas when that will be?

Old Pastor Jones is unlikely to cut off your head and video it.

No, those redneck motherfuckers have guns and don't take the time to put on an elaborate execution. (honestly, the odds of one of them shooting at you in such a situation is probably 30-35%. They carry guns to church in some places now)

As for the influx of conspiracy theories of late: If I cared about things like reputation (personal or forum wide) I'd be concerned. As it is, it's just more youtube vids to scroll past. I scroll past a lot of them anyway tbh.

 

[Black Rose]

Yeah, that's understandable. But unfortunately, I am one of those who think you to be crazy. I think I'm not open-minded enough to ever consider most of the things you write in a serious way. sorry.

This Insult will not be tolerated

Animekitty hereby bands you from INTP forum and steals all your cookies.

Your are now cookie-less but I am open minded enough to let you stay because you only have 3 posts.

Animekitty hereby re-opens (Don't mind me)'s acount but keeps his cookies because Animekitty is crazy.

 

[Claverhouse]

Are you implying that Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld are Muslim?

We must at all costs maintain both that Bush was a fool who stared like a rabbit in the headlights whilst interrupted from his daily reading of 'The Little Goat Who Could', or whatever, and that he was simultaneously a brilliant criminal genius in the tradition of Napoleon or Dr. Fu Manchu.


Under any circumstance, your picture served to remind what absolutely hideous things the towers were. Over here we now point out ugly buildings and say they deserve a 9/11 moment.


Some of us, at any rate.


Well, me.

Next you'll say Hitler was a good christian for killing Jews.

Like Stalin was a good orthodox for killing Poles ?

No, those redneck motherfuckers have guns and don't take the time to put on an elaborate execution. (honestly, the odds of one of them shooting at you in such a situation is probably 30-35%. They carry guns to church in some places now)

It's no thanks to our ludicrous and vile gun laws over here that those of us brought up in the Anglican Tradition [ Episcopalian to you ] have some difficulty in imagining vicars packing heat.


If some fanatics threatened them with violence they'd smile weakly and gently, then offer them tea.





Claverhouse

 

[lightspeed]

We must at all costs maintain both that Bush was a fool who stared like a rabbit in the headlights whilst interrupted from his daily reading of 'The Little Goat Who Could', or whatever, and that he was simultaneously a brilliant criminal genius in the tradition of Napoleon or Dr. Fu Manchu.


Under any circumstance, your picture served to remind what absolutely hideous things the towers were. Over here we now point out ugly buildings and say they deserve a 9/11 moment.


Some of us, at any rate.


Well, me.







Like Stalin was a good orthodox for killing Poles ?







It's no thanks to our ludicrous and vile gun laws over here that those of us brought up in the Anglican Tradition [ Episcopalian to you ] have some difficulty in imagining vicars packing heat.


If some fanatics threatened them with violence they'd smile weakly and gently, then offer them tea.





Claverhouse

That was some funny shit!

 

[Fukyo]

I've been so massively trolled I must paddle myself in shameful repentance.

Do it with style.

 

[lightspeed]

Fukyo, I was expecting a screamer, but it just sent me to some place trying to sell me bikes, and not even in my native currency.

 

[Fukyo]

Fukyo, I was expecting a screamer, but it just sent me to some place trying to sell me bikes, and not even in my native currency.

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?p=219646

Spoiler

I guess that failed, I dunno what happened with the page.
It was supposed to open into a fake bomb countdown with loud arabic music playing.

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

No. Nobody's limiting anyone from anything. Protesting something is a protest, not an enforcement. Protesting something is voicing a strong opinion about it, not disallowing it outright.

Thereby demonstrating precisely how to miss a point. Or not read a post. Take your pick.

 

[Lobstrich]

@ OP -

Okaaaay? What's your point? I mean what's the point in creating a thread linking to a video about some random ignorant loser burning a random book. And calling the thread "This insult cannot be tolerated"??

 

[DesertSmeagle]

This is such a stupid thread haha...ooh tough guy...this cannot be tolerated...What are you gonna do? Yes its a person expressing his belief that all muslims are evil people. Hes obviously stupid, but it is widely thought that all muslims are evil terroroists. They should separate good muslims from bad ones.the ones who want to acheive martydom for their home land by flying planes into towers, or strapping bombs to little children..Someone needs to make an obvious difference between extrememist muslims and peacful ones so people arent unfairly accused of being bad..im in no means muslim..But i could care less..its just a dumb book..Do you worship the book?

 

[Lobstrich]

This is such a stupid thread haha...ooh tough guy...this cannot be tolerated...What are you gonna do? Yes its a person expressing his belief that all muslims are evil people. Hes obviously stupid, but it is widely thought that all muslims are evil terroroists. They should separate good muslims from bad ones.the ones who want to acheive martydom for their home land by flying planes into towers, or strapping bombs to little children..Someone needs to make an obvious difference between extrememist muslims and peacful ones so people arent unfairly accused of being bad..im in no means muslim..But i could care less..its just a dumb book..Do you worship the book?

Couldn't have said it better.


It does however. Make me wonder why it's only the Muslims doing religious killing and terror. It's not only post 9/11 They've been harrassing the Catholic (Or Protestant? I'm not really sure) populace of the Phillipines as well. They've threatened an artist from Denmark because he made a caricature Muhammad. A Muslim even attacked him with and axe, yeah an axe.

And the list goes on.

Obviously I know, as you said. That it's not every Muslim who does these things. I even know alot of Muslims, so I'm not trying to put them in a box.



On the other hand. You could say it's just Islam's turn to kill now that Christianity has been on that, the "last couple of years"

 

[Jennywocky]

.... this guy deserves no attention at all, that any media at all covered this story in any way is just upsetting.

Yeah, that was my opinion of the big To-Do about the potential "Koran burner" in FLorida last week. I'm tired of the media giving psychos and fringe groups national air time just because they have an extreme opinion. Westboro Baptist is another fringe group with only 50-75 members that should not have any real dominance or attention given to it, yet keeps getting covered as if they are significant and more important and relevant than they truly are.

 

[Anthile]

Yeah, that was my opinion of the big To-Do about the potential "Koran burner" in FLorida last week. I'm tired of the media giving psychos and fringe groups national air time just because they have an extreme opinion. Westboro Baptist is another fringe group with only 50-75 members that should not have any real dominance or attention given to it, yet keeps getting covered as if they are significant and more important and relevant than they truly are.

No, it's much more cynical than that. The media write about it because they hope it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Nothing would make them happier than a terrorist attack as a result of this. Journalism is an industry that abandoned any form of morality a long time ago.
Incidentally, do you remember the media outrage when the Westboro Baptists burned a Koran and filmed it? Precisely.

 

[Claverhouse]

Actually, the one good thing from all this has been to demonstrate the extent of the neo-fascist power structure in crushing dissent. Like chattel slavery as a labour resource, stalinist death camps and tortures are so yesterday when it comes to making rebels unpersons...


Mr. Jones's 'Church' --- I've not the faintest interest in discovering what sect it may be --- has had it's mortgage pulled; has had it's insurance suddenly denied; and Rackspace took out their webspace. Not to mention raving old opportunists such as the president publicly denouncing an obscure pastor. Considering the quite ordinary but rather horrible things that happened unpunished to black Americans up to the 1950s, selective synthetic outrage on demand on something as minor as this seems self-indulgent phariseeism.


I doubt the Church will be around in 10 years; and if it is, it will be because they repented and submitted to establishment dictates.





Claverhouse

 

[Melllvar]

I find this thread subject very "bleh", so it's strange I would be resurrecting it, but I got a good laugh out of this (particularly where they show off their guns):

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/terry-jones-receives-death-threats-24780307

Silly religious people.

 

[Lobstrich]

Oh god, I agreed with Smeagle! )=O
Don't hurt me please. I was young and ignorant!

 

[notrightnow]

Jones is an idiot with a small congregation. He has been seeking attention and got it.
Good has come out of his silly actions. The community as a whole has come together and the discussion of acceptance of different cultures and beliefs is a hot topic in Gainesville. I can happily say that overall that is a community where there is more inclusion that exclusion.

 

[EditorOne]

I agree with DesertSmeagle. This thread shows how quickly reason evaporates when religion is on the table.


Footnote: Claverhouse, the Westboro Baptist Church or whatever it is called particularly offends some because it violates a burial taboo. Appropriating someone else's solemn, emotion-laden ceremony of passage strikes a lot of people as just as wrong, in the sense of being vibrations out of sync with the universe, as cannibalism. Which is why they do it.

This book burning: It wasn't falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater, although its malicious intent clearly outweighed its status as a form of free speech. In this case, it was pretty much setting fire to a crowded theater. We all know there are extreme elements in every religion (although I think extreme Buddhists tend to go more for self destruction rather than murdering infidels). An act calculated to stir the violent misbehavior of extremists? I'm not sure how this works out, because all the people dead were killed in a nation other than the one where the malicious act took place. But it would sure be nice to see that addlepated sanctimonious troublemaking wienie facing an international tribunal at the Hague or something.

I don't buy the argument that Islam is any worse than any other religion in generating violent fanatics. I mean, who bombed abortion clinics and murdered doctors performing abortions?

 

[Causeless]

I, apparently, was the only one who chuckled at the video.


(Really? Molested? Riiiiiight.... On top of that white supremacist overtone he tried to give it with the German death metal... "Silly" was the first word that came to mind.)

 

[mke2686]

The hypocrisy and ignorance of this thread disgusts me.

@lyra try looking at this from an outsiders perspective and read what you wrote...


edit: this justifies my belief that religion inhibits maturity

 

[dala]

I find the lack of maturity, inciteful nature, and intolerance demonstrated in that video to be disturbing. The people who made it need to grow up, maybe try to understand someone different from themselves.

The Qu'ran is a holy book to those who believe in it. Burning it is an act of extreme disrespect and, in the minds of believers, blasphemy. Knowing this, it is understanding why people are so offended by it, especially since most Muslim cultures have a strong concept of 'face'. I think people who riot and kill over this need to recognize when they have been baited and not allow others to use them in this way.

At the same time, I think that people in western countries need to stand up and say that acts of extreme disrespect for other cultures are unacceptable. You can support someone's right to free speech and still denounce what it is that they say.

 

[BigApplePi]

Good news everyone. Only one copy of the Koran was burned and that was symbolic. One cannot destroy symbols. There are other copies and I have one ... two actually.

 

[Lobstrich]

Good news everyone. Only one copy of the Koran was burned and that was symbolic. One cannot destroy symbols. There are other copies and I have one ... two actually.

It's good news if you care, hehe.

 

[BigApplePi]

It's good news if you care, hehe.

Respect Lobstrich. You will care if they come a knockin' at your door.