• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Teacher criticized me for being too philosophical.

Earendel

Redshirt
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
7
---
Has anything like this ever happened to you? I'd love to hear any related horror stories.

This is my English teacher (likely ESFP). It's not like I was putting too much thought into gym. Anyway, an essay in which I analyzed two poems about darkness (in context, an obvious metaphor for depression) prompted her to tell me that I "philosophize too much." She gave me an A, but told me very condescendingly that even though I'm a legal adult, I can't just write about Big Ideas whenever I want to.

I'm used to my philosophical nature being the one thing that gets me through assignments. Kind of a slap in the face to suddenly be criticized for it, but ah well. I'll get over it. Thanks for letting me vent.
 

kinetickyle

Thinking man's idiot
Local time
Today 9:06 AM
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
77
---
Location
Dallas, TX
Is this a college or high school teacher? This sort of thing sounds like something I would expect to see in high schools where kids are expected to memorize instead of learn. If this is a college class, I'd drop the class ASAP if possible.

I had something slightly similar happen in a college history class. We were supposed to read an article from an academic journal and write about what we thought about the subject and the article itself. When I stated that I thought the author's use of language was little more than "intellectual masturbation," the professor was not amused. My defense was, "You asked for my opinion, and I gave it."
 

Earendel

Redshirt
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
7
---
Yep, it's high school. Three more months of this nonsense.

And intellectual masturbation? Love that phrase. :)
 

Vrecknidj

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
2,196
---
Location
Michigan/Indiana, USA
I knew everything when I was in high school too. ;)

Consider the possibility that your teacher knows something. Hang out after school with her a couple times and ask her to elaborate, maybe you have something to gain from her. Or, maybe she's wrong and you're right, and a few conversations will show that.

In any case, don't stop being philosophical; but, there might be better and worse times to use it.

Dave
 

Earendel

Redshirt
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
7
---
I've considered the possibility. The thing is, I've talked to her before about other issues, and she tends to be rather small-minded ("Science fiction only exists so you can make up stupid-sounding names," she once told my class in all seriousness), so I'm often inclined to be just as small-minded and dismiss her advice -- and that's where the problems start. So yeah, okay, I'm sure some of it is helpful.

Related question: what did it take for you to give up the notion that you were smarter than your elders? Just curious :)
 

TheHmmmm

Welcome to Costco, I love you
Local time
Today 8:06 AM
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
262
---
English is a class founded on the bullshit of convoluting subjective interpretation and justifying it as fact. Just keep your head down and write what she wants.

remember kids, only the English teacher knows what the author was thinking.
 

Jesse

Internet resident
Local time
Tomorrow 2:06 AM
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
802
---
Location
Melbourne
It's annoying to think you know more than your elders. I do it all the time, it's like I can't turn it off. In this case, I think she was being a tard. But unfortunately high school English is more about technique and memorization than deep thought or analysis.
 

EditorOne

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,695
---
Location
Northeastern Pennsylvania
"She gave me an A, but told me very condescendingly that even though I'm a legal adult, I can't just write about Big Ideas whenever I want to."

What's frosting your balls is the condescension. Condescension, expressed condescension anyway, is often a defensive move of aggression by someone close to feeling outdone. She might (I stress "might") be feeling like you're just showing off the sheer excess wattage of your brain.

Without being detectably condescending yourself, maybe you can tailor your responses to her from this point forward to fit her ability to wrap herself around a concept.

Also, and of course only if you want, why not post what you wrote that got you an A and an attitude from her? And the original mission you were given. It's quite possible what you are seeing as condescension is merely frustration on her part: She's got how many of these things to read, evaluate and grade, and you're going all "on the other hand" on her, with your brain like Shiva with multiple hands, to indulge your mind's propensity to analyze and think and postulate and explore? Some of us DO tend to overthink and it can be a real chore to follow the overflow sometimes. And some of us have trouble with feelings, including, in particular, OTHER PEOPLE'S feelings, so I'm a bit chary about your interpretation of what she wrote as condescension.

The third bit is this: If you go over everything and decide you really are sensing condescension, it wouldn't hurt to schedule a chat with her and tell her what you are "feeling." It's almost expected of you these days to be reasonably assertive and, logically, tell her about a potential obstacle to learning that's coming about because of what you believe her attitude to be. Don't call her condescending. Just say YOU felt demeaned and unhappy. (Not annoyed and filled with contempt for her. :) ) I mean, if she takes a hint and adjusts, the rest of the year is a sled ride. If she doesn't, you've set the stage for having done your part to avoid whatever ugly happens next.

Hope that all makes some kind of sense.

I have to say I'm explaining this better than the occasions when I felt I was experiencing condescension. I tend personally to not handle it half so well as I've explained here. :D
 

sweeper

Redshirt
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
9
---
the professor was not amused. My defense was, "You asked for my opinion, and I gave it."

Speaking as an experienced teacher, if you say that without clear a basis for your opinion (this would require, at a minimum, a well-articulated definition of intellectual masturbation -- do you have one? -- with examples and counter-examples), you appear either impudent or unable/unwilling to understand and interpret the content. Except unlike your teacher, I would have been amused.
 

Aramea

Active Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Messages
181
---
My guess is that your teacher wants to ground you a bit. One in a hundred or so kids will be INTP and teachers probably see your future as pretty bleak if you don't tame the beast in your head. It is at best hard to make a living "thinking"; you are usually expected to produce some sort of tangible, coherent product for other people to read and comprehend. Some occupations are actually dangerous for us, i.e., french fry cooker :eek: ... My biology teacher didn't want to approve me for chemistry because she thought I would blow shit up with my absent mindedness. You are most likely going to have to steer clear of heavy machinery like printing presses. The fact that you got your A does indicate she thought it was a good effort, so her motives lie elsewhere ...
 

aaaw

æææææ
Local time
Today 3:06 PM
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
149
---
Sometimes teachers use words like "too philosophical" as euphemisms for "you don't really get it" or "that is not what this exercise is about".

It's narrow-minded and arrogant to assume you know more than your teachers. You might, but even the worst teachers can usually teach you something. Their perspective is worth listening to and understanding.

If you find aspects of your education frustrating, this is a good sign and it usually spurs you on to read more or understand more about a topic by yourself. This is what good education should teach you - to learn for yourself.
 

Vrecknidj

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
2,196
---
Location
Michigan/Indiana, USA
Related question: what did it take for you to give up the notion that you were smarter than your elders? Just curious :)
Who says I've given it up? :)

Provisos:

1) I'm a teacher (both university and high school)
2) I'm in my 40s


Actually, I've met quite a few people who are older and much smarter than I am, so, I don't sweat it. Heck, I know quite a few people who aren't "smarter" than I am (by some definitions), but they speak more languages than I do, or they can tear down and rebuild an engine in an afternoon without consulting a manual. I gave up being impressed by "intelligence" a long time ago.

Dave
 

Wizardry

Active Member
Local time
Today 3:06 PM
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
119
---
I don't think its arrogant to think you might see more/understand original intent better than the teacher. I think its only a problem if you let the idea give you superiority complexes and you stop trying to understand where they are coming from. Just because they do it as a job doesn't exactly mean they are good teachers. I have had very few teachers I would consider a "good" teacher. There have been many times in the past where they were just plain wrong and basically thought dictators. The complaint with me was that I was "too negative". I was just being realistic. I'm sorry but you can't just take a written work, you know where the guy is plainly talking about how he lived a good life and is ready to die, then try to add rainbows that shit skittles and unicorns giving everyone a pair of free angel wings.

Your teacher sounds like a dick anyway. Who is that person to tell you what you can and cannot write? So he/she grades your work, so what? Who is around specifically to continuously grade their grading? At what age is it appropriate to write about "Big Ideas"? Many people in the past were young when they revolutionized their area of interest. Besides it isn't like you will keep those thoughts your whole life. You expand and add to your ideas and sometimes you discover new things that change your entire outlook. You never stop being a student, until they day you can no longer retain information properly or you die. I don't think its really a question of who is smarter or more intelligent (right/wrong) but more a matter of being respectful in general.
 

mack

Redshirt
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
6
---
I don't think its arrogant to think you might see more/understand original intent better than the teacher. I think its only a problem if you let the idea give you superiority complexes and you stop trying to understand where they are coming from.
That's the point. It almost always does.

Sometimes teachers use words like "too philosophical" as euphemisms for "you don't really get it" or "that is not what this exercise is about".

It's narrow-minded and arrogant to assume you know more than your teachers. You might, but even the worst teachers can usually teach you something. Their perspective is worth listening to and understanding.
Worth looking into.

This thread deals with something remarkably similar to the Dunning-Kruger effect.
 

Grove

Wait.....now what?
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
312
---
Location
Next door
My Human Rights Prof. asked the class for the difference between moral regulations and laws. As a response I asked don't laws preclude morality? She said yes, but that I was being too philosophical. I'm still not really sure what she meant by that.
 

Vrecknidj

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
2,196
---
Location
Michigan/Indiana, USA
My Human Rights Prof. asked the class for the difference between moral regulations and laws. As a response I asked don't laws preclude morality? She said yes, but that I was being too philosophical. I'm still not really sure what she meant by that.
How else does one approach a question like but other than philosophically? Really.

Dave
 

Stoic Beverage

has a wide pancake of knowledge
Local time
Today 9:06 AM
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
369
---
Location
I'm not sure, but it's rather chilly.
Eh, I gave up trying to actually put my intellectual weight behind schoolwork a long time ago. Now, I just write what they want to read. It's painfully boring, but it keeps my grades up so I can hopefully learn something of importance in the future.
 

Melkor

*Silent antagonist*
Local time
Today 3:06 PM
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
5,746
---
Location
Béal feirste
I got my latest essay back, and it's seems the main criticism was 'You frequently use needlessly complex and flowerly language'.

YES. Well I am writing an academic paper woman!

Not some mediocre, half assed womans magazine straight off the shelf and into the flabby, motionless laps of it's myriad brainless readers!
 

warryer

and Heimdal's horn sounds
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
676
---
I got my latest essay back, and it's seems the main criticism was 'You frequently use needlessly complex and flowerly language'.

YES. Well I am writing an academic paper woman!

Not some mediocre, half assed womans magazine straight off the shelf and into the flabby, motionless laps of it's myriad brainless readers!

Why put the effort into making something more difficult than it has to be? It could be so much less painful.

Leave flowery language to where it is warranted (poetry and art).
 

TheHmmmm

Welcome to Costco, I love you
Local time
Today 8:06 AM
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
262
---
Eh, I gave up trying to actually put my intellectual weight behind schoolwork a long time ago. Now, I just write what they want to read. It's painfully boring, but it keeps my grades up so I can hopefully learn something of importance in the future.

This man's figured it out unfortunately.
 

SpaceYeti

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 8:06 AM
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
5,592
---
Location
Crap
I got my latest essay back, and it's seems the main criticism was 'You frequently use needlessly complex and flowerly language'.

YES. Well I am writing an academic paper woman!

Not some mediocre, half assed womans magazine straight off the shelf and into the flabby, motionless laps of it's myriad brainless readers!
Academic papers should be concise. College is not high school. In high school, the point is length of the paper. In college, the point is correctness and skill.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Local time
Today 7:06 AM
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
7,828
---
Location
California, USA
CZAkI.jpg
 

aaaw

æææææ
Local time
Today 3:06 PM
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
149
---
'You frequently use needlessly complex and flowerly language'.

That is a perfectly valid criticism. You will soon learn that good academic writing is writing in which arguments are made as clearly and concisely as possible. In my experience needlessly complex and flowerey language is used to obfuscate rather than elucidate. The better a subject is understood the more simply and clearly it can be explained.

The aim of an academic paper should be to communicating ideas is effectively as possible.
 

dark

Bring this savage back home.
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
901
---
My guess is that your teacher wants to ground you a bit. One in a hundred or so kids will be INTP and teachers probably see your future as pretty bleak if you don't tame the beast in your head. It is at best hard to make a living "thinking"; you are usually expected to produce some sort of tangible, coherent product for other people to read and comprehend. Some occupations are actually dangerous for us, i.e., french fry cooker :eek: ... My biology teacher didn't want to approve me for chemistry because she thought I would blow shit up with my absent mindedness. You are most likely going to have to steer clear of heavy machinery like printing presses. The fact that you got your A does indicate she thought it was a good effort, so her motives lie elsewhere ...

I agree completely with the absentmindedness, being an NTP and trying to accomplish something with ones hands is quite perilous. And to think I was brave enough to endeavor at building a car... good thing my ISTP brother was there to help me or I'd probably be dead by now haha.

As a philosophy major, I find it absurd to be too philosophical in any context, but that is completely biases on my part. My advise is find whatever venue is your brains strong point and that you can get completely lost in for hours on end, and as soon as you leave high school, pursue that academically regardless of the job availability and pay.

Also, at least where I live, most teachers in the public education system are essentially thoughtless. This is in no way any offense to any one here that may be a teacher, I plan on being a university professor someday, but I have much to learn and many years to go until then. According to the stuff I have learned about the teachers in my area, they enter college level courses and have to take remedial courses. And they struggle with it, like math. And they get their teaching degree finally to go teach that one subject they know hardly anything about and it scares me. I got a 0/10 points on an Eng 102 quiz because my thesis I grasped from "A Modest Proposal" was not the same as all the others, especially the teachers. So go figure, sometimes it is a burden to be different, but it gets better I would like to think.
 

Trebuchet

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 7:06 AM
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
1,017
---
Location
California, USA
I love what EditorOne wrote. I think he got it exactly right.

"You are too philosophical," is very unhelpful criticism. I agree that it sounds defensive. It is so open-ended, that no matter what you do, it can keep being applied. It is so general, that it gives you nothing to work with.

If your teacher wanted you to be more "grounded" then she could have said so, asking for more specific examples, or asking you to write for a specific audience. After all, in some cases heavy philosophy is not appropriate. I wouldn't put it into a brochure on CPR, or a description of how ethernet works. But you are reading poetry in an English Literature class.

She could have told you that your philosophy was not sophisticated enough to manage such topics, and recommended some books. She could have told you that concrete writing is also a skill that you should learn (which it is). She could have asked that you try to match your language and depth to the poem, another useful skill.

She could have told you that you spent so much time developing your own ideas that the poem was not actually the focus of what you wrote. Maybe your philosophical ideas were so imaginative that she didn't think they were well supported in your writing.

So maybe you were being too philosophical, or maybe not. Either way, she failed to give you any useful feedback, so I don't see how you are obliged to take any actions. (This is not true at a job, where sometimes you have to guess what your boss means, and just deal with it.)

Telling you that you cannot write about Big Ideas whenever you want is just silly. She can disallow deep thinking in her class, but outside of that, you can write about Big Ideas at any age, and her approval is not necessary.

Um, what exactly did you get out of "A Modest Proposal"? I thought it was pretty straightforward social satire.

Edit: If your teacher has trouble with the names in Science Fiction, she might want to try reading "Ethan of Athos" by Bujold. It is an easy-to-follow caper, and they have names like Ethan, Elli, and Terrence, though there are names from other cultures like Okita.

Perhaps history bothers her, too, abounding with names like Herodotus, Chandragupta Maurya, and Tutankhamen.
 

Jackooboy

Active Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
400
---
She sounds like a moron.

Many people who are teaching (especially public school teachers) are idiots...

Just don't engage with them (it will hurt their brain and they will resent you for it)... Tell them what they want to hear and move on with an A in the class.
 

SpaceYeti

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 8:06 AM
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
5,592
---
Location
Crap
She sounds like a moron.

Many people who are teaching (especially public school teachers) are idiots...

Just don't engage with them (it will hurt their brain and they will resent you for it)... Tell them what they want to hear and move on with an A in the class.
Hahaha!

Jackasses who presume they're so smart that the normal, every day retards are un-worth their time are funny.

Egomania much?
 

Jackooboy

Active Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
400
---
Hahaha!

Jackasses who presume they're so smart that the normal, every day retards are un-worth their time are funny.

Egomania much?

Aren't you the one who denies the possibility of a Creator because you're so advanced? :)

I stand by my statements. There are many bad (and stupid) public school teachers and professors at the college level going on power trips, usually as a guise to assert their superior "intelligence" when they feel inferior.

The solution is to tell them what they want to hear and move on if you want a good grade.

Sorry if I didn't communicate that clearly the first time.
 

a detached retina

Active Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
192
---
My Human Rights Prof. asked the class for the difference between moral regulations and laws. As a response I asked don't laws preclude morality? She said yes, but that I was being too philosophical. I'm still not really sure what she meant by that.

She probably just was a sensor and wanted a conrete answer that clearly divided the two. Like "Laws are enforced by governments whereas moral regulations are typically enforced by individuals or religious institutions."

Although that answer seems to be rather plain and to miss the point of the question, a "philosophical answer" might seem just as off-base to a sensor.
 

a detached retina

Active Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
192
---
Yes editor-one put it nicely.

Ultimately though if you use this experience to inflate your ego about how smart you are you will fail to grow from it. I would recommend avoiding that trap that the public school has lured so many NPs into, and growing from the idea that people are different.

I was criticized by my english teacher for treating people like concepts and treating themes like a playground built for my entertainment. This struck me as a direct criticism of my soul at the time, but in retrospect I believe I have started to understand that many people live in a much more "real" world than me and that my theories bother them when they perceive more pressing issues.

You have to meet people half way
 

MissQuote

kickin' at a tin can
Local time
Today 7:06 AM
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
1,169
---
Related question: what did it take for you to give up the notion that you were smarter than your elders? Just curious :)

Getting older - exiting puberty.

Good luck. ;)


Haven't read the rest of the topic, I just had to reply to that though.
 

Jackooboy

Active Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
400
---
Yes editor-one put it nicely.

Ultimately though if you use this experience to inflate your ego about how smart you are you will fail to grow from it. I would recommend avoiding that trap that the public school has lured so many NPs into, and growing from the idea that people are different.

I was criticized by my english teacher for treating people like concepts and treating themes like a playground built for my entertainment. This struck me as a direct criticism of my soul at the time, but in retrospect I believe I have started to understand that many people live in a much more "real" world than me and that my theories bother them when they perceive more pressing issues.

You have to meet people half way

I'm guessing this really is in response to my post-- So I'll clarify.

I had a teacher in high school, years ago, give me a B and my partner a B+ on a project in which I had done literally 100% of the work.

There was no reason our grades should have been different and no reason my partner should have received a higher grade than myself on a project he put no time or effort into.

My partner and I went back to her desk after class. We told her that I did the entire project and I asked her why there was a grade difference, etc. She pretty much told me to go pound sand and she'll do what she wants and all grades are final...

So what I learned from this is that people are different and that emotional people who hold grudges (she brought up abortion earlier in the semester in math class and we had a mini debate and she didn't like my views/arguments) will attack you in unrelated areas to make themselves feel better and regain "superiority."

Another example of someone "teaching me a lesson" revolved around a college professor who couldn't quite tell me what I was doing wrong. It was in a "sociology of geography" class and the professor gave me a B on my photo essay. The essay was on order vs. disorder in Philadelphia (social constructions of course, because in liberal arts, everything is a social construction-- even genetics... but I digress).

She pretty much decided that she didn't like me taking and juxtaposing a bum (who happened to be black) with a cop (who happened to be white). When I talked to her (I spent many hours at her office) she kept going back to that picture. My theory is that she doesn't like white men (she happens to be black feminist) or what she saw as a white person bringing race into a project. The only other white guy in the class also received a poor grade. I was privy to hearing both her and his arguments about his collage and accompanying paper he had created about his neighborhood in Philadelphia. The reason she gave him a C was because she argued his neighborhood that he defined didn't exist (not like it really should matter if a neighborhood is recognized as existing or not, everyone has a different definition of their neighborhood and she never told us that it had to be a recognized neighborhood... as long as you can define your neighborhood geographically, it should be clear what area you're referring to). She argued that his neighborhood boundaries weren't official and that's why she gave him a C. She backed this up by going to about.com as a reference (which had about 10 neighborhoods for the entire city of Philadelphia). Alternatively, he went to the U.Penn and Philadelphia Planning Commission websites, which he had sited on his accompanying paper. The boundaries he had in his paper matched the PPC and U.Penn websites... Anyhow, it pretty much came down to she didn't like him or me. It was pretty funny to watch a supposedly Ph.D prepared person take "about.com" as an authoritative source over U. Penn...

I worked on her all semester (going to office hours and trying to form a relationship (and massage her ego), which I did since with feelers it's more about your aura (smiled and was very friendly) and presence than thoughts-- unless your thoughts piss them off, that they will remember), but I made a mistake. I told her during one of our chats that I really wanted to get an A in the class... she responded by saying "I made a lot of B's during college"-- After that short little jab, I knew I would get a B... My fears were finalized when I received my final grade of an 89.5% with no roundup...

She taught me a lesson, that there are some people who aren't worth trying to convince or win over and that they will hold a grudge against you for who you are, not what you produce. They will dislike you for your sex, race, and stereotypically enjoyed "white privilege," etc.

The math teacher taught me that if you speak your mind, certain people will try to put you in your place if you make them look like a fool even once in a totally unrelated field.

So yes, you learn when to open your mouth and when to shut your mouth... that's my advice... read the situation.

If the teacher can't explain in detail a valid criticism then it's most likely not you... especially if they are coming at you in a condescending tone.

Obviously, the actions of the teacher has upset the original poster enough and isn't normal behavior from his other teachers, so they've posted the issue on this forum.

Life ain't fair... tell them what they want to hear and move on... :elephant:
 

Dimensional Transition

Bill Cosbor, conqueror of universes
Local time
Today 4:06 PM
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
1,164
---
Location
the Netherlands
I understand what you mean, I often experience stuff like this too.
But at the same time, we're young INTPs. We're arrogant, rebelling psuedo-intellectuals. I see how some teachers may find us very annoying. On the other hand, when a teacher shows to me he/she is a bit open-minded and open to discussion, they quickly earn my respect. Which again sounds kind of arrogant... 'YOU SIR ARE WORTHY OF MY RESPECT', as if that has any significance... I'm just another random kid.
Anyways, I'm drifting off, I hope you get what I mean.
 

EditorOne

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,695
---
Location
Northeastern Pennsylvania
Jackooboy, did you attend Temple in the last 10 years? Because I think my son ran onto the rocks and shoals of that particular professor in much the same way you did.
 

Chimera

To inanity and beyond
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
963
---
Location
Lake Isle Innisfree
It's a little disheartening to see so many responses here echo the sentiment of "tell them what they want to hear and move on".

It unnerves me that the passive attitude is so embraced by the people who claim to have such a higher level of thinking. Sure, it's easier in the short term, but once the habit is formed...

I guess I lucked out with teachers; I've had my share of baddies, but the good ones have instilled a tiny sense of pride in my ideas...enough that I'm willing to defend them. If you think your idea or your work is worthwhile enough to get heated up about teacher criticism on it...I dunno. I guess it's hard to stay on the objective side when it feels like you're being personally attacked (because our work, our creations, our ideas are highly personal), but throwing your hands up in the air or lowering your head and charging through for the grade doesn't exactly show loyalty to your ideas.

I guess it's marginally better than a violent outburst.

~
 

Jackooboy

Active Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
400
---
Editorone, yes I did go to Temple, graduated in 2007... the professor noted in my last post was Rickie Sanders-- supposedly she earned a Ph.D from Ohio State University.

Temple has a lot of brilliant (Aryeh Botwinick pops to mind) and a lot of crackpot professors.

I had a different prof. I dropped because she denied that genetics had anything to do with black people dominating the NBA or NFL or marathons, etc... Her argument, which she sincerely believed was true, is that black people just try harder when it comes to sports and therefore dominate those leagues.

She also defined racism as "white people oppressing black people," which I thought was humorous and dropped her class soon thereafter.

She wasn't open for debate either... it was her way or no way.

Melissa Gilbert is her name, she made it into Horowitz's book "The Professors: The 101 Most Dangerous Academics in America"....

I had a history prof. tell our lecture hall that "the only reason Truman dropped the bomb on the Japanese is because they have slanted eyes." Anyhow, I guess she is ignoring the official historical record that shows the US didn't have the bomb until after the Germans surrendered.

I had an economic geography professor tell us that globalization is a success and he noted how long the US had gone without a recession and how wealthy it had made us in 2007. Kinda funny put in perspective in 2011.

I'm going back to school to become a nurse practitioner now; I might pick up law school in the future and try to get into health policy... :)
 

Jackooboy

Active Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
400
---
It's a little disheartening to see so many responses here echo the sentiment of "tell them what they want to hear and move on".

It unnerves me that the passive attitude is so embraced by the people who claim to have such a higher level of thinking. Sure, it's easier in the short term, but once the habit is formed...

I guess I lucked out with teachers; I've had my share of baddies, but the good ones have instilled a tiny sense of pride in my ideas...enough that I'm willing to defend them. If you think your idea or your work is worthwhile enough to get heated up about teacher criticism on it...I dunno. I guess it's hard to stay on the objective side when it feels like you're being personally attacked (because our work, our creations, our ideas are highly personal), but throwing your hands up in the air or lowering your head and charging through for the grade doesn't exactly show loyalty to your ideas.

I guess it's marginally better than a violent outburst.

~

It goes back to a know your audience and choose your battles.

Writing a paper about how you think Marx was agnostic, which I did with one of my profs. was perfect (Marx attacks religion, and can be interpreted as never directly assaulting the idea of a God or deity) and fit that professor who also happened to be a rabbi.

Now, if I had tried that in another political theory class with an atheist professor, how do you think it would have gone over? Should I fight him tooth and nail on it and receive a B, C, D, or F?

I argue, no. Instead, you can choose another topic. That's what I mean by tell them what they want to hear. If you notice the prof. is into something, you make points by including it in your paper. It isn't a total abandonment of your principles, but rather finding common ground with the professor and writing on those topics.
 

EditorOne

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 10:06 AM
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,695
---
Location
Northeastern Pennsylvania
"It's a little disheartening to see so many responses here echo the sentiment of "tell them what they want to hear and move on". "

Chimera, I don't think that's as purely passive as you think. It is partly contempt and partly practical: Why waste your time on people who won't "get it?" The ratio of contempt may vary, but I'm pretty sure it's an element even for those who don't come right out here and say "they are asshats." And why is it our job to straighten out the misguided or whatever? There is a principle in play here, it's just not the one that says "everyone must understand the truth." It's the one that says "I'm important too and I'm not going to get myself all twisted up trying to clarify things with people who aren't equipped with the personality to handle things the way I explain them."

Jackooboy, thank you, I'm checking with my son.
 
Top Bottom