Recreational drug use/experimentation

[boondockbabe]

I didn't know what it meant when I was younger. My friend's boyfriend had 4:20 tattood on his right upper arm. I was like "Why do have that on you arm?"

 

[Cosmic]

I couldn't even begin to list all the drugs I've tried. Last drug I experimented with was 700 mg of DPH, benadryl's active ingredient.

But I may also experiment with a nice, long cleanse. I've been feeling a little less grounded since I started doing drugs about a year and a half ago. Has anybody else felt similarly?

 

[shoeless]

i do feel like i'm in a bit of a haze sometimes. two day's sobriety is enough to make a pretty noticeable difference.

sometimes being clear-headed is the best high i could ever wish for.

 

[Col]

Iv taken quite a lot of (abused):

Cannabis
Ketamine
Alcohol
Caffeine
MDMA

And also experimented with:

Tobacco
Mescaline
2CB
Mephedrone
Cocaine
BZP
Salvia Divinorum
Codeine

And a bunch of other stuff no doubt too in the form of pills....

Add to that a fair few different types of legal pills (as well as the BZP ones).

Iv quit everything now though. Nothing but alcohol and cannabis for about a year and a half, and no alcohol or caffeine either in the last 3 or 4 months.


Iv had my fun but those days are over now

 

[Col]

I couldn't even begin to list all the drugs I've tried. Last drug I experimented with was 700 mg of DPH, benadryl's active ingredient.

But I may also experiment with a nice, long cleanse. I've been feeling a little less grounded since I started doing drugs about a year and a half ago. Has anybody else felt similarly?

A agree but I find that anything drug related can be resolved with enough time sober.

The way I see it is when you are in a drugged state for enough time, the brain reconfigures itself for that state. Thats when it begins to feel normal, and as a side effect, soberness becomes strange (physcosis). If you then return to the sober reality for long enough, the brain reconfigures itself back for that reality. This is what I have experienced. I think true mental illness is considerably different and much worse than the drug induced variety.

 

[ummidk]

I couldn't even begin to list all the drugs I've tried. Last drug I experimented with was 700 mg of DPH, benadryl's active ingredient.

Lol HATE it

For the Op, I've done all but Hallucinogens, (Why the fuck Haven't I? I don't know, I should) MDMA, and Amphetamines.

A agree but I find that anything drug related can be resolved with enough time sober.

The way I see it is when you are in a drugged state for enough time, the brain reconfigures itself for that state. Thats when it begins to feel normal, and as a side effect, soberness becomes strange (physcosis). If you then return to the sober reality for long enough, the brain reconfigures itself back for that reality. This is what I have experienced. I think true mental illness is considerably different and much worse than the drug induced variety.

Well Said

 

[Cosmic]

A agree but I find that anything drug related can be resolved with enough time sober.

The way I see it is when you are in a drugged state for enough time, the brain reconfigures itself for that state. Thats when it begins to feel normal, and as a side effect, soberness becomes strange (physcosis). If you then return to the sober reality for long enough, the brain reconfigures itself back for that reality. This is what I have experienced. I think true mental illness is considerably different and much worse than the drug induced variety.

Good point. Never really thought about marijuana dependence or anything else in that way.

Lol HATE it

Bahaha, I loved it. =x I mean, it was scary and confusing as hell, but if I ever became a long-term drug abuser, I'm pretty sure it'd be a deliriant. Way too exhilarating for my own good.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

The way I see it is when you are in a drugged state for enough time, the brain reconfigures itself for that state. Thats when it begins to feel normal, and as a side effect, soberness becomes strange (physcosis). If you then return to the sober reality for long enough, the brain reconfigures itself back for that reality. This is what I have experienced. I think true mental illness is considerably different and much worse than the drug induced variety.

That seems about right.

 

[darude11]

Wait, where is chocolate?

 

[snafupants]

There is definitely a corporate dimension to drugs. The idea being one trades forty dollars for a formulaic high, where hang ups are are temporarily a thing of the past, and you can rove and scan with a different (superior?) set of eyes. There are drinks marketed under the name rockstar; turn on basically any trendy radio station and you'll hear a glorification of a certain brain state ideally attainable with a certain ilk of drug. This is on top of hundreds of millions of people eternally swallowing their anti-depressants. Not to name drop, but Huxley seemed on the money with Soma over a half century ago. This probably makes it seem like I'm down on drugs, I'm not. Folks should realize, however, why they consume these substances and be intellectually honest about their intentions, motivations, and goals, both short and long term.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Folks should realize, however, why they consume these substances and be intellectually honest about their intentions, motivations, and goals, both short and long term.

I'm just really bored and unsure what to do with my life basically, so I'm looking for a pleasant short escape from reality, that might give me some insights in how to become happier hopefully. I think this is probably one of the most common reasons for people in their teens.

Long term I don't really think taking drugs has any benefits. Maybe some funny/interesting stories to remember/tell when I'm 50. Unless I'd take harder drugs than alcohol and cannabis, such as psychedelics, then it might seriously affect the way my life develops. But I refuse to let a single substance have so much influence over my life. There's a 50/50 chance of my life getting better or my life getting worse from it. The risk is too high.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Maybe somebody can tell me what I'm doing wrong, or if I should just give up on experimenting all together.

The experiments have become boring to me. I'm not interested in trying out psychedelics or more addicting drugs, that's too much of a risk for me. I think I'm going to stop trying to experience a good high. It seems like almost nothing affects me in a good way for the majority of times, whether it's alcohol, tobacco or weed, they usually just don't seem to affect me in the way they affect others. Very occasionally it's pretty fun. I've had a few different experiences not worth experiencing again, which sadly all happen for let's say 80% of the time:

-Uncomfortably drunk. Depersonalized, body became uncontrollable, I wasn't panicking at all, it was just annoying.
-Uncomfortably high. Scary. Extreme depersonalization and some hallucinations, body map completely distorted, unable to walk.
-Very stoned. Basically brain-dead. Empty, dull, shitty feeling.
-Tobacco head rush. Uncomfortable as hell. Feels like I'm just going to pass out, no euphoria, no nothing. Just dizziness. Every time.

Being a little stoned, and just a little tipsy is alright, though.

Maybe it's because I've experienced most of those things with a lot of people I didn't really consider friends or so? I've noticed feelings of loneliness and emptiness are the things that seem to dominate these kind of negative experiences.

 

[Meer]

Moderation?

I've found that getting crazy fucked up isn't really for me, and have experienced those kinds of things.

Yesterday I took a tiny bit of weed and mixed it with a bunch of tobacco and smoked it real slowly. I felt super motivated and creative and good, with nearly zero paranoia or anxiety, etc. Having a couple beers beforehand probably would have been pretty nice, too.

 

[snafupants]

Maybe somebody can tell me what I'm doing wrong, or if I should just give up on experimenting all together.

The experiments have become boring to me. I'm not interested in trying out psychedelics or more addicting drugs, that's too much of a risk for me. I think I'm going to stop trying to experience a good high. It seems like almost nothing affects me in a good way for the majority of times, whether it's alcohol, tobacco or weed, they usually just don't seem to affect me in the way they affect others. Very occasionally it's pretty fun. I've had a few different experiences not worth experiencing again, which sadly all happen for let's say 80% of the time:

-Uncomfortably drunk. Depersonalized, body became uncontrollable, I wasn't panicking at all, it was just annoying.
-Uncomfortably high. Scary. Extreme depersonalization and some hallucinations, body map completely distorted, unable to walk.
-Very stoned. Basically brain-dead. Empty, dull, shitty feeling.
-Tobacco head rush. Uncomfortable as hell. Feels like I'm just going to pass out, no euphoria, no nothing. Just dizziness. Every time.

Being a little stoned, and just a little tipsy is alright, though.

Maybe it's because I've experienced most of those things with a lot of people I didn't really consider friends or so? I've noticed feelings of loneliness and emptiness are the things that seem to dominate these kind of negative experiences.

It takes courage, ignorance, curiosity, or desperation to delve into psychedelics.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Moderation?

I've found that getting crazy fucked up isn't really for me, and have experienced those kinds of things.

Yesterday I took a tiny bit of weed and mixed it with a bunch of tobacco and smoked it real slowly. I felt super motivated and creative and good, with nearly zero paranoia or anxiety, etc. Having a couple beers beforehand probably would have been pretty nice, too.

But if I'm not 'crazy fucked up', I really don't notice any difference in my perception or behaviour. It's like I either go too far or am completely sober. Is that possible? I've been thinking it might just really be some underlying problems I haven't figured out yet. The loneliness and emptiness I often feel when high/drunk/stoned must mean something.

 

[NegativeZero]

More than a third has tried Hallucinogens, seriously? I’ve never even seen any.



You junkies.

Hey, don't knock it till you've tried it. And btw Hallucinogens are very hard to become addicted to, they may be enjoyable if taken in the right environment but they are also very strenuous. Only a fool would but their brain through that kind of workout on a daily basis and it wouldn't be long before they become a zombie as well.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

OMG, 9 of us have smoked raw opium? I'm impressed with you guys.

There are a lot of poppy plants that grow in gardens in the north Seattle area. Someone I know would go around at night and clip the heads off, then extract it down to opium or morphine.

Also, I'm going to consider adderol the same as speed... they're both amphetamines. Also, keep in mind that MDMA is an amphetamine, and ecstasy often has a blend of drugs (including meth, speed, DXM, whatever).

Um, yeah. Deliriants seem freaking dangerous, whenever I read erowid or wikipedia I just get scared of them. Can anyone speak more about them?

 

[Jordan~]

I've also tried poppers, which aren't listed there - amyl nitrite, specifically. Had someone poisoned me and my friends with cyanide that night, we'd have been fine. There was salvia going around, too, but I didn't want any on account of how people who had tried it were saying that I really wouldn't be up for going out after coming down from the hallucination. I have some interest in having a hallucination, however - I'm a little worried about what my mind might conjure up and about whether my already fragile and sensitive psyche would be able to deal with it, so I'd probably take something like LSD or mescaline.
I have taken amphetamines, but only in the form of ritalin. :P And apparently that's a lot like taking a very small amount of cocaine.
The only drugs I use regularly are tobacco and alcohol, and cannabis semi-regularly. I'd really rather smoke weed than tobacco, but obviously it's more difficult and expensive to obtain.

 

[Cosmic]

Um, yeah. Deliriants seem freaking dangerous, whenever I read erowid or wikipedia I just get scared of them. Can anyone speak more about them?

Yeah, naturally occurring deliriants are particularly risky as the concentration of alkaloids can vary greatly by individual plant. I think there may be a way to extract or otherwise standardize the dose, but it's very dangerous to ingest it any other way. Anything in particular you wanted to know about deliriants? Definitely have a sitter and make sure you have two consecutive days without planned responsibilities. You can expect to talk to people who aren't there, forget what you were talking about halfway though, not be able to talk, lose all sense of time, make conversation with the mirror, teleport, and have spiders everywhere. All this while you think you're sober. I don't personally take DPH anymore because it's really hard on your liver, and my stomach would hurt for days afterwards. But yeah, it's a roller coaster.

:smiley_emoticons_mr

 

[meneres]

this is cool, it's like a big drug party coooool

I've only tried LSD to meditate,a nd it was a awesome experience.

 

[axemblack]

Beware: wall of text incoming!

I haven't been on this board in forever but this thread piqued my interest, and I saw some people way earlier in the thread who were interested in dissociatives, so with DXM being my drug of choice I figured I'd respond.

You can get cough medication with just DXM as the active ingredient: Robitussin Cough Max, Zicam Cough Spray, Vicks 44, Delsym. Delsym is slightly different from the usual Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide (DXM Hbr) contained in most medications in that it is Dextromethorphan Polistirex, which means extended release (a common phrase to describe Delsym is "Twice as long, half as strong"). There's also Coricidin Cough & Cold (CCCs), but they are dangerous in high doses due to arrhythmia and risk of heart attack caused by the CPM (their popularity is probably because the CPM acts as a potentiator for the DXM, increasing potency and decreas despite the risks). Many have taken medication with Guaifenesin as another active ingredient in addition to DXM, and while it's not dangerous until you reach ridiculously high doses it can easily make you puke and crap your brains out. Acetaminophen is to be avoided at all costs, as its liver toxicity is very dangerous.

To speak of personal experience, I have never tried a traditional psychedelic such as LSD or psilocybin mushrooms, so the "psychedelic" dissociative DXM is all I can speak personally about. There was a period of time in my teens when I became extremely interested in altered states of consciousness. Marijuana and alcohol not being enough, I began to search out more powerful substances. However I did not have access to mushrooms or LSD, so I decided that DXM would be my best option. I did my research and got the proper Robitussin Cough Max, but I ignored advice to take a smaller dose first. (Note: some Caucasians lack the CYP2D6 enzyme responsible for breaking down DXM into DXO, so it is always best to test a relatively small dose on yourself to see if you lack the enzyme.) I was eager for something new and that's exactly what I got. I almost finished the entire bottle, roughly 700mg of DXM, and for a first timer of low weight and low tolerance I believe this put me at around a high third or low fourth plateau. (Note: In the DXM community the effects of the drug are roughly broken down into plateaus that range from 1 to 4; which plateau you experience depends on how much DXM you ingest, with 1 being the low end and 4 being the high end.)

I experienced closed-eye visuals (CEVs), open-eye visuals (OEVs), and the most altered state of mind I've ever experienced in my life. I felt nauseated and threw up as most users do after ingesting large amounts of DXM, and just as for most users the trip picked up in intensity after the vomiting. I can't describe everything that occurred, because at high doses your memory becomes extremely disjointed, you experience time dilation, and probably loss of consciousness at some points. I remember seeing aliens and dark tentacle monsters and experiencing the most intense visions when I closed my eyes, but throughout the trip I was in what might be called a "brain fog". My mind felt foggy and distant, and my head felt like a balloon (in the brief moments of euphoria) or a crushing weight (in the prevalent dysphoria). This trip was one of the most intense, if not the most intense, state of dysphoria I think I've ever experienced. I remember wanting the trip to end so badly, and just having to sit motionless in my chair to avoid nausea because movement becomes jerky and disconnected and near-impossible at higher plateaus. Only about 10-15% of the trip was euphoric, and the rest was a horrible roller coaster. You wake up the next morning and you are in a state called the "afterglow" which lasts from hours to days depending on the person and the dose taken. In the afterglow it becomes strange to function in everyday life, as you are essentially emotionless and disconnected from the ordinary feeling of life.

Some people love the afterglow and some people hate it, and the same is true for DXM itself. Even after my horrible first trip I wanted to do the drug again. And I have since had much more pleasant and euphoric trips, but a never a trip as intense. I fell into a period of pretty heavy use shortly afterward, but I don't regret taking that first plunge (although I wouldn't advise a dose that high for a first timer interested in the drug). For me dissociation is a golden feeling, and I now mostly use the drug as a sort of "soft reset" for my brain, enjoying the afterglow almost as much as the trip itself, and taking small vacations from my ordinary feelings. Taking DXM has definitely changed the way I think, although I can't be sure considering I can't accurately recall what I was like before I started taking it. I'd like to think it made me more open-minded, more questioning, but I'm really not sure. I do know that it left me vulnerable to a state of hypochondria and drug-influenced psychosis, but I have always had something of a nervous (read: neurotic) disposition, and even this experience I value now, as I am more able to recognize the signs of my nervous crises and more effectively deal with them when they come up. I'm always reminded of David Foster Wallace's response when an interviewer said that he must be a strong person for getting through his near-suicide, and DFW responded that he wasn't strong, he just learned his weaknesses. This is what I believe DXM has done for me, made me more aware of my weaknesses and more questioning of how much is taken for granted in our everyday experiences.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I'm wondering why some people enjoy dissociation. I've heard from many DXM users that they love 'not feeling human' or 'disconnected'. I can't understand this.

Whenever I smoke too much weed I feel quite depersonalized, empty and unreal. That's about the same as DXM dissociation, right? I really don't like the feeling. I can accept it and be intrigued by it, but it always makes me feel a little scared. It feels like you're just a tiny bit away from breaking through a certain border and going completely mad, at least to me.

However, if I smoke just enough, I'll feel energized, wonderful, untamed, good-humoured. Still dreamy, but not disconnected from the world. Dissociation is a feeling I like to avoid because it can really bring on vicious cycles of thinking about unreality, the meaninglessness of life and madness.

 

[axemblack]

To me, dissociation is different from depersonalization, and I know exactly what you're talking about with weed. I don't smoke weed anymore because of exactly what you described: I get paranoid, caught in thought loops, and just generally questioning everything to the point of a mild break with reality (mainly questioning human motivations and interactions). Dissociation is more like you're just removed from the immediate situation and observing things from a little ways off. Floating would be a good way to describe it, like you are just floating in a kind of happy daze just above the real world. Of course this is at 1st to 2nd plateau doses, 3rd and 4th are much more "pyschedelic" and introspective.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

So you still have a feeling the real world exists?
Because depersonalization/derealization to me feels like there is no real world, like I'm just in some crazy complicated dream, watching someone's life. Which is interesting, but intimidating and scary as well.

 

[axemblack]

On 1st and 2nd plat doses yes, you never really lose sight of the real world. Hallucinating on a 2nd plat dose is kind of like a willful suspension of disbelief in that you have to turn out the lights and just go with it, not questioning the reality of what you're seeing because if you do you'll realize it's just an illusion and it takes the fun out of it. I don't feel crazy or seriously disconnected from reality on my standard doses of DXM, the feeling is like I said before, more floaty and pleasant and not so much really out of touch with reality or fearful of my sanity. It's difficult to describe but it's a kind of warm fuzz or slight delay between ordinary sensory input (called flanging). Your thinking is not seriously impaired I think I should add, it's usually just a little more untethered or a little more disconnected. Plus some music sounds really awesome (the music that sounds good is more selective than with weed though).

I realize that I may be describing this in a way that makes it not sound particularly pleasant because "disconnection" and "dissociation" don't have many positive connotations, but it really is tough to describe.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Well, you have managed to get me really interested in DXM haha. It sounds very interesting.

I only have experience in alcohol and weed, how different is DXM compared to those? Will you need a sitter? Will it be best to start off slowly, on the first plateau? How damaging is it to the body?

I thought DXM was quite neurotoxic and hepatotoxic.

 

[axemblack]

You would have to do large amounts on an almost daily basis to have a chance at neurotoxicity, and as far as liver damage goes you would need to take an amount far exceeding 1g to get into liver complications, which is an absolutely massive dose. It was once believed that DXM caused Olney's lesions in humans but this has been disproven, and there is currently no documented evidence of brain damage in humans. That being said most dexers (nickname for DXM users) employ a week-per-plateau rule, meaning that if you take a 1st plat dose you wait one week before dosing again, if you take a 2nd plat dose you wait two weeks, and so on. DXM is not radically different from alcohol or weed on the low plateaus, and you won't need a trip sitter on the lower plats. 1st plat is more of mild stimulant with slight dissociative effects and 2nd plat has been described as more akin to the effects of alcohol or marijuana. The main thing to be wary of is serotonin syndrome, so you want to make sure you don't take any MAOIs or SSRIs for a short time before or after dosing, and definitely not while dosing.

As far as what amount to start with, most dexers recommend a 300 mg dose (low to mid 2nd plateau) to start with if you are of average weight (adjust to 250 or 350mg if you are a light or heavy weight respectively). Like I mentioned before though if you're Caucasian and worried about the CYP2D6 enyzme deficiency you can take a small dose like 100mg to see how strongly it affects you, and to see if you have any sort of allergic reaction like strong itching from taking DXM (called roboitch). And one product I forgot to mention that is favored by a lot of people is Robitussin Cough Gels or some generic variety of them. They come in bottles of 20 pills of 15mg DXM Hbr each, so it's easy to calculate that the whole bottle is 300mg. Another handy little trick of dexers is to take Benadryl with the DXM because Benadryl contains DPH, an antihistamine that potentiates DXM if taken at high doses and reduces nausea at low doses.

I'll try to wrap this up and give a tl;dr here at the end but I get long-winded when it comes to one of my favorite topics and hobbies. So, if it's available in your country I would recommend taking one bottle of Robitussin cough gels (300 mg total) with a couple pills of benadryl on hand to reduce nasuea if you start feeling nauseous. If you're feeling cautious you can buy another bottle and take 100mg of that one to see if it's affecting you too strongly, in which case you probably have the enzyme deficiency (though it's not very common). If you do have the enzyme deficiency it's not the end of the world, you just have to be aware that you will need a lot less DXM to reach the same level of effects.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

It still feels... sketchy.

The fact that PCP is also a dissociative and should be similar in effects and stuff... I don't know. It sounds interesting, but also more dangerous than just weed.

 

[axemblack]

Well it's your choice ultimately. I just love providing accurate information. You're not going to find many drugs that are less physically dangerous than weed, although psychologically weed is not free of danger due to its ability to exacerbate or contribute to an onset of schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals. I can speak from personal experience and from other dexers that have never had violent thoughts or violent fantasies towards others while under the effects of a dissociative. And some of these same dexers have done PCP and ketamine as well.

That being said there are a fair number of individuals who try DXM once and decide they don't like it and never try it again. The dangers of dissociatives are greatly exaggerated, and that's really all I have left to say in regard to trying to convince you that DXM is not dangerous as long as you know what you're doing.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Hmmmhm, you've provided great information
I'm going to think about it for a while... The only reason I'm quite comfortable with weed is that in my family nobody has ever had schizophrenia or psychoses, really. I'm quite careful with my brain.

 

[Essence]

I used to smoke weed recreationally almost every day. I didn't see any problems with it until i saw details of myself that i didn't like but had to accept. Its fine as long as people don't get over-enthusiastic about it and act stupid/get caught.

I had a few months where i would smoke tobacco every few days. I still catch myself having the urge to smoke a black every now and then. I think its fine as long as you can control your urge.

LSD was awesome. Everything was shimmering and distorted according to my thoughts about the world around me. But spatially, nothing was distorted. (Kinda hard to explain) I think that was the only time in my life i felt like i fully understood my own perception. For some reason when i tried to read text on my phone, it seemed like an alien language. Music was amazing and time distortions came with focusing on details in it. But much like the spatial distortions time also didn't change. (again very hard to explain)

 

[Jah]

Sam Harris has a wonderful Blog entry about this:


http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life/

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Sam Harris has a wonderful Blog entry about this:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life/

+1 for this. I agree so much, especially with the quote:

I cannot account for why my adventures with psychedelics were uniformly pleasant until they weren’t—but when the doors to hell finally opened, they appear to have been left permanently ajar. Thereafter, whether or not a trip was good in the aggregate, it generally entailed some harrowing detour on the path to sublimity. Have you ever traveled, beyond all mere metaphors, to the Mountain of Shame and stayed for a thousand years? I do not recommend it.

Yeah. Unfortunately, I've reached this point with traditional psychedelics (LSD, shrooms, 2c-_ )

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Hmm... I love reading articles like those.

I feel a strong urge to try psychedelics, but also a strong resistance to try them because of the risk of a bad trip. It's quite frustrating...

 

[Meer]

I would like to think that a lot of sleep paralysis has prepared me for any bad drug things, but I think that's a bit of hubris. I spoke to a guy who said he was INTP in real life about this, he seemed to think I'd be okay with shrooms and LSD with those kind of experiences.

Even then, I don't think terrible things should always be avoided at all costs.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I have experience with some pretty scary hallucinations from back when I was a little kid.
I tripped balls two times in my life without the use of drugs. No I'm not schizophrenic, on both occasions I had a fever and was half-asleep... They didn't damage me in the long run, but damn they were quite scary. I remember seeing a giant rock blast open the wall in my bedroom, and seeing all kinds of skeletons and ghosts crawling out of it. Then I puked, and it seemed to be over.

Then there was the time I smoked too much weed and nearly died because I ran across a very busy road without realizing there were lots and lots of cars driving around. I saw white lights and fractals, had out-of-body experiences... This triggered a few months of constant worrying about myself. I was stuck introspecting permanently.

So with that experience, I can only imagine(or rather, find it almost impossible to imagine) what a bad trip on LSD would be like. It'd feel like millions of years of emptiness and scary mindfuckery, I bet...

I can see how that could throw me into a 4-year long existential crisis or something. Which doesn't sound too nice.

Yeah... I think I'll wait until I am a lot wiser before considering a psychedelic, probably.

 

[AlteramPartem]

I heard the flying on brooms things associated with witches was actually tied to Datura. Witches would cover their broom in it and stick it up their vaginas to absorb it.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Wasn't it Amanita Muscaria? Amanita Muscaria was used in certain pagan(witch) potions.

 

[ummidk]

Btw whos the 24 people who have never had caffiene, I call bullshit

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Necro. I'm sure plenty more folks have joined since the last post. I'm planning my Markov Chain if traditional medication and OTC fail. (See this thread: http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=14678 )

My main concern is anxiety, depression, & attention associated with PTSD & ADHD respectively. I'm generally a novice/wuss having experienced only caffeine, alcohol, & legal amphetamine (adderall). Here's what I'm looking at. FYI, I'm interested in micro-dosing and long term use as opposed to recreational use. Anyone experienced with these, feel free to chime in. I'm also open to other suggestions/substances.

In order:

ethylphenidate
ecstacy (MDMA)
5-meo-mipt
5-meo-dipt
2C-P
methoxetamine

I'm also admittedly out to try LSD/shrooms/peyote once for recreational purposes, but those topics are fairly well covered in this thread/forum & others, and those won't happen without first knowing interactions with whatever solutions manifest for the above-stated problems.

 

[joal0503]

God, I wish I could post all my rantings and insights gathered over the past few years from other boards into this thread. Psychedelic drugs...where to even begin? Ill start with...Terence Mckenna, has anyone read his work/watched his lectures? I have a lot of opinion, advice, information, as well as experience with psychedelics. Id love to help people out, or simply discuss psychedelics like reasonable grown adults, without any of the nonsense or dirty stares.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

God, I wish I could post all my rantings and insights gathered over the past few years from other boards into this thread. <-Copypasta? Linkage? Psychedelic drugs...where to even begin? Ill start with...Terence Mckenna, has anyone read his work/watched his lectures?

I know quite a few here know McKenna to varying degrees. I merely know of him, but I'll pick up in time.

I have a lot of opinion, advice, information, as well as experience with psychedelics. Id love to help people out, or simply discuss psychedelics like reasonable grown adults, without any of the nonsense or dirty stares.

I'm all for the yellow. *gives dirty stare*

 

[joal0503]

I'm all for the yellow. *gives dirty stare*

I could link you, but it would mean sifting through nearly 10,000 posts of seemingly random topics to find anything worth reading.

The thing about Terence Mckenna, yes he did a lot of psychedelics, but as far as Im concerned hes one of the most effective communicators that had ventured into the unknown dimensions. It sad to see him lumped in with the sort of 'crazy' new age folks that ARE out there, but Im sure most people can recognize he was on a completely different level.

The strangest thing about it, he died back in 1999. I had never heard of his name until 2011. From there, a man who died nearly 10 years ago, I was able to access through literature and virutally attend his lectures via youtube. It's sort of a trip when you think about all that had to happen for it all to go down...but thats just another topic of its own.

The main topic , or perhaps the seed that Mckenna laid in my own head...was the notion or theory that psychedelics are the MAIN catalyst behind our evolution. We know humans that walked this planet 50,000 years ago were physically the same...it was our MINDS that made the difference...Dieting and foraging the grasslands of Africa we eventually found ourselves eating psilocybin containing mushrooms in our diets. The effect? Sexual activity, visual acuity, successful propogation, but most IMPORTANTLY the suppression the male dominated ego (apparent in our monkey relatives today) that we are currently dealing with today.

From there, I began researching and diving into topics surrounding the alchemy, old myths and religions (ala Jung)and the rabbit hole just kept getting deeper and deeper...

The tree of knowledge? the forbidden fruit? the dead sea scrolls and a scholar named John Marco Allegro who suggests that Christ and the origins of Christianity come from a MUSHROOM cult, attempting to hide the mushroom from persecution in public...The Eleusinian Mysteries of ancient Greece...the shamans of the forest...the more you LOOK at entheogens and psychedelic drug usage, the more you realize that people well before us had tapped into something much more profound than what people today realize...

see? now im just ranting and babbling!!!

 

[The Introvert]

5-meo-mipt
5-meo-dipt

Why these variants? My main concern is for the mipt version. I would argue that any variant strain (including straight up 5-meo-DMT) would be less... pleasant than N-N-DMT. Not only is it the most tested, but it seems to me that it would be a more pleasant experience. Just throw me a bone and read these:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dmt/5meo_dmt_article1.shtml
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2004-07-22/music/just-say-no/2/

As opposed to N-N-DMT:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_journal1.shtml
As well as McKenna's infamous machine elves, etc.

Note that the first erowid article explicitely states that 5-Meo-DMT and N-N-DMT do not produce similar trips. 5meo is MUCH more intense (and that's saying something) and should be handled with extreme caution. As personal experience from the psychadelic effects of yes, marijuana, I can say with absolute certainty that experiencing the effects of ANY DMT variant could very easily (and in many cases does) cause a life-changing experience. Now, this isn't to say that that's a bad thing, but I'll just say that a less potent experience would seem to be ideal (again, this is my opinion).

What I'm trying to say is that messing with ANY recreational drug needs to be done with caution. Given your lack of experience with any other drug (besides medication, alcohol, and caffeine), I would be hesitant to dive headfirst into psychedelics, ESPECIALLY considering these are widely acknowledged as the most intense and difficult ones to deal with.

Your thoughts?

 

[The Introvert]

I could link you, but it would mean sifting through nearly 10,000 posts of seemingly random topics to find anything worth reading.

The thing about Terence Mckenna, yes he did a lot of psychedelics, but as far as Im concerned hes one of the most effective communicators that had ventured into the unknown dimensions. It sad to see him lumped in with the sort of 'crazy' new age folks that ARE out there, but Im sure most people can recognize he was on a completely different level.

The strangest thing about it, he died back in 1999. I had never heard of his name until 2011. From there, a man who died nearly 10 years ago, I was able to access through literature and virutally attend his lectures via youtube. It's sort of a trip when you think about all that had to happen for it all to go down...but thats just another topic of its own.

The main topic , or perhaps the seed that Mckenna laid in my own head...was the notion or theory that psychedelics are the MAIN catalyst behind our evolution. We know humans that walked this planet 50,000 years ago were physically the same...it was our MINDS that made the difference...Dieting and foraging the grasslands of Africa we eventually found ourselves eating psilocybin containing mushrooms in our diets. The effect? Sexual activity, visual acuity, successful propogation, but most IMPORTANTLY the suppression the male dominated ego (apparent in our monkey relatives today) that we are currently dealing with today.

From there, I began researching and diving into topics surrounding the alchemy, old myths and religions (ala Jung)and the rabbit hole just kept getting deeper and deeper...

The tree of knowledge? the forbidden fruit? the dead sea scrolls and a scholar named John Marco Allegro who suggests that Christ and the origins of Christianity come from a MUSHROOM cult, attempting to hide the mushroom from persecution in public...The Eleusinian Mysteries of ancient Greece...the shamans of the forest...the more you LOOK at entheogens and psychedelic drug usage, the more you realize that people well before us had tapped into something much more profound than what people today realize...

see? now im just ranting and babbling!!!

My question for you is: what psychedelic would you reccomend for first-timers? I have next to no experience with any psychedelic compound (other than the occasional fantastic toke of pot) and I'm interested in what else I can figure out about myself. My thoughts would be to start with psylocybin shrooms, and go from there.

 

[snafupants]

Why these variants? My main concern is for the mipt version. I would argue that any variant strain (including straight up 5-meo-DMT) would be less... pleasant than N-N-DMT. Not only is it the most tested, but it seems to me that it would be a more pleasant experience. Just throw me a bone and read these:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dmt/5meo_dmt_article1.shtml
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2004-07-22/music/just-say-no/2/

As opposed to N-N-DMT:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_journal1.shtml
As well as McKenna's infamous machine elves, etc.

Note that the first erowid article explicitely states that 5-Meo-DMT and N-N-DMT do not produce similar trips. 5meo is MUCH more intense (and that's saying something) and should be handled with extreme caution. As personal experience from the psychadelic effects of yes, marijuana, I can say with absolute certainty that experiencing the effects of ANY DMT variant could very easily (and in many cases does) cause a life-changing experience. Now, this isn't to say that that's a bad thing, but I'll just say that a less potent experience would seem to be ideal (again, this is my opinion).

What I'm trying to say is that messing with ANY recreational drug needs to be done with caution. Given your lack of experience with any other drug (besides medication, alcohol, and caffeine), I would be hesitant to dive headfirst into psychadelics, ESPECIALLY considering these are widely acknowledged as the most intense and difficult ones to deal with.

Your thoughts?

The dangers associated with most psychedelics seem overblown but it might still be best to graduate one's experimentation from something comparatively light, like psilocybin, to granddaddies such as DMT and the like. The feeling I have is that conventional psychedelics, in non-heroic dosages, are reasonably safe in psychologically stable individuals; there's certainly not high chemical toxicity concerns with things like psilocybin. I'm less keen on LSD nowadays, though, because of the DEA bust on the Pickard/Apperson lab; it's increasingly difficult to be sure of the provenance and potency of anything synthetic. But yeah, any substance that matches current neurotransmitter structure (e.g., serotonin) and easily binds to receptors is probably relatively safe. In other words, the less neuropsychological or somatic guesswork the better. I tend to favor anything time-tested as well.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

The thing about Terence Mckenna, yes he did a lot of psychedelics, but as far as Im concerned hes one of the most effective communicators that had ventured into the unknown dimensions. It sad to see him lumped in with the sort of 'crazy' new age folks that ARE out there, but Im sure most people can recognize he was on a completely different level.

I've taken on more of an interest in McKenna as of late. Perhaps he deserves his own thread? Lyra incorporated a lot of McKenna into the Dark Materials thread, but that has its own purpose.

From there, I began researching and diving into topics surrounding the alchemy, old myths and religions (ala Jung)and the rabbit hole just kept getting deeper and deeper...

You aren't familiar with Episkopos, are you? If so, I might know you from elsewhere...(random)

MUSHROOM cult... people well before us had tapped into something much more profound than what people today realize...

I'm a fan of mushroom cult. I know a guy with some awesome pink oysters, no lie.

Spoiler

You should see his shiitake 0.o

see? now im just ranting and babbling!!!

Meh. I'm operating on 40 minutes of sleep, so it's much better that I could do atm.

 

[The Introvert]

The dangers associated with most psychedelics seem overblown but it might still be best to graduate one's experimentation from something comparatively light, like psilocybin, to granddaddies such as DMT and the like. The feeling I have is that conventional psychedelics, in non-heroic dosages, are reasonably safe in psychologically stable individuals; there's certainly not high chemical toxicity concerns with things like psilocybin. I'm less keen on LSD nowadays, though, because of the DEA bust on the Pickard/Apperson lab; it's increasingly difficult to be sure of the provenance and potency of anything synthetic.

I agree completely. I personally do not feel comfortable using something that has been made synthetically, simply because, just as you said, it's difficult to be sure of the potency. Factor in that the aforementioned variants of DMT are actually more potent, and you can understand why I am skeptical of my friend diving headfirst into the experience. I'm all for expanding your horizons, but at some point precautions need to be taken; and I feel that this is one of those times.

I do have something to say about the dangers of psychadelics being overblown. Although I agree with this statement, I can attest with personal experience that if one experiences a truly euphoric state through drugs, I cannot overstate their impact on the rest of your life. Thankfully, most of my experiences have been pleasant and have pushed me to think further outside the boundaries in which I was previously held. Unfortunately, not every experience can be good: and thus, the amplification of a bad experience is something nobody wants to deal with. Therefore, you can understand my hesitance on this subject (as I'm sure you also have)

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Just throw me a bone and read these:

Consider them read. Random thoughts/points:


5-meo-DMT is one of the few ++++ experiences documented by Shulgin.


For N, N DMT, consider the availability of Phalaris arundinacea and the cost of extraction as consistently portrayed in various and sundry .pdfs. Illinois Bundleflower is native as well.


I chose mipt and dipt for their similarity to ecstacy re: their active sites. Based on trip reports I assume that if micro-dosing, the associated serotonin/dopamine/oxytocin/etc. effects hold true as well (although clearly not exactly the same as MDMA).

5meo-DMT, which differs from mipt and dipt is MUCH more intense (and that's saying something)

^

Now, this isn't to say that that's a bad thing, but I'll just say that a less potent experience would seem to be ideal (again, this is my opinion).

I would be hesitant to dive headfirst into psychedelics, ESPECIALLY considering these are widely acknowledged as the most intense and difficult ones to deal with.

Didn't McKenna recommend large and infrequent (once every 1-2 years) doses? Not that I'd necessarily start off with a heaping dose from the few contained within the holy grail...

.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Its very unlikely you'll panic on pot. If it helps do it with people you feel comfortable around. (that also smoke it).