Politicians

[Sparrow]

Adolf Hitler - ENFJ or INFJ?
Stalin - INTJ?
Obama - ENFJ?
George Bush - ESFJ?

etc.

 

[Words]

Adolf HItler. I'd vote ESTJ. SJ for strong established "judgementalism".
Stalin - ENTJ to me.
Obama - ENFJ.
George - ESFJ.
Al Gore - INTP or J.
Hilary Clinton - ENTJ.
Cao Cao - INTJ.
Liu Bei - ENFP.
Who else?

 

[shoeless]

hitler was totally an F. i don't care what anyone says.
i'm thinking ISFJ. maybe INFJ.

everyone else i don't know enough about to say.

 

[Words]

hitler was totally an F. i don't care what anyone says.
i'm thinking ISFJ. maybe INFJ.

everyone else i don't know enough about to say.

Why F?

 

[shoeless]

the way he took art school rejection so personally; no rational basis for hating the jews (more of a gut-instinct type thing); emotionally-charged public speeches and whatnot.

i dunno, i think it's pretty obvious, myself.

 

[Words]

the way he took art school rejection so personally; no rational basis for hating the jews (more of a gut-instinct type thing); emotionally-charged public speeches and whatnot.

i dunno, i think it's pretty obvious, myself.

Can't say the same. A matter of using weak emotions on pressured occasions doesn't really, I think, show "F". With "No rational basis for hating the Jews", rationality doesn't thaw biased judgemental hate, i think. The "hate" did unifom himself with Nazi and allowed control and power, i think. The "T" maybe what made him more..."evil". "F" to me shows a bit of a less strict and a more of a forgiving nature.

 

[shoeless]

he made decisions (major and minor) entirely based on his own fucked-up moral compass.

T =/= evil. F =/= forgiving. and vice-versa.
it's a matter of what you do with it.

 

[Words]

he made decisions (major and minor) entirely based on his own fucked-up moral compass.

I wouldn't say "entirely". People use T and F, methinks. I stand on T - more for him though. Support I can't give...though.....though he's "ok with" disharmony and belief in inevitability of conflict seems a bit T to me. and he's methods on war are pretty strategically logical.

T =/= evil. F =/= forgiving. and vice-versa.
it's a matter of what you do with it.

your right but the possibility exists. as for F =/= forgiving...i don't know.

 

[Adymus]

Hitler - INFJ (SJ =/= Evil, I could name a hell of a lot more Ns who became super powerful than I could SJs. The vision of nazism was not some point in history that Hitler was conserving to, it came out of his own personal Ni of how he believed society should be. Shoeless was spot on in assessing him as an FJ, but don't think that evil and bigotry automatically means SJ. I have actually met an INFJ skinhead before. INFJs have the potential of being both great revolutionaries, and fucking psycho visionaries, like GG Allin for instance)

Obama - ENFJ
John McCain - ISTJ
George W. Bush - ESTP
Bill Clinton - INFJ
Hillary Clinton - INTJ
Donald Rumsfeld - ISTJ
George H.W. Bush - ISTJ
Collin Powell - INTJ
Al Gore - ISTP
Ron Paul - ENFJ (This was a hard one, I thought he was ENTJ first, but he is using Fe not Te.)
John Edward - ENFJ
Press Secretary Dana Parino - ENTJ (Not an important politician but I'm including her because I kind of have a crush on this one. She's feisty )
Sara Palin - ESTJ

 

[Anthile]

I think that most politicians are ISTJ.

 

[Words]

I think that most politicians are ISTJ.

most politicians are introverts?

 

[Adymus]

It's split pretty evenly between ISTJs , INTJs, ENTJs, ESTJs, and ENFJs. There are a handful of INFJs but not many.

Ps in politics are a rare occurrence.

Cauterize: Introversion means nothing if you have an agenda you want to push.

 

[Words]

It's split pretty evenly between ISTJs , INTJs, ENTJs, ESTJs, and ENFJs. There are a handful of INFJs but not many.

Ps in politics are a rare occurrence.

Cauterize: Introversion means nothing if you have an agenda you want to push.

That's an *if* which applies to basically everyone. But general tendency speaking, politics is an ETJ populated job, aye?

 

[Adymus]

That's an *if* which applies to basically everyone. But general tendency speaking, politics is an ETJ populated job, aye?

No, it isn't, it's a TJ populated Job. I guarantee you there are not more ETJs than ITJs, in fact, I'm fairly certain ITJs outnumber the ETJs

 

[Words]

No, it isn't, it's a TJ populated Job. I guarantee you there are not more ETJs than ITJs, in fact, I'm fairly certain ITJs outnumber the ETJs

That's interesting. What reason would ITJ's have to join politics you think?

 

[Adymus]

That's interesting. What reason would ITJ's have to join politics you think?

Are you serious? Reasons for not getting into politics would be a much shorter list.

IxxJs are agenda pushers.

Their Dominant function, either Ni or Si, gives them a worldview or vision that they would like to see brought into the world. They then use their Auxiliary function, Fe or Te to accomplish this. An Ni user will have a vision of how things should be in the future that they will try to push forward, and an Si user will have their historical model of how things past, and try to restore how things used to be. Then a Te user will accomplish this task by organizing, planning and creating the right systems that must be in place, and an Fe user will persuade, move, rally the people to get what they want done.

What better place to get your agenda across than politics?

 

[LAM]

I thought Obama was considered an ENTP??
Also isn't Bush an ISTJ?

 

[shoeless]

I thought Obama was considered an ENTP??

...oh hell no.

 

[LAM]

...oh hell no.

?? Yes, a hell of a lot of articles say hes an ENTP or maybe an ENTJ....

 

[Adymus]

Also isn't Bush an ISTJ?

Double oh hell no.


How exactly does he come off as I and how does he come off as J?


(Wait a minute, are you talking about George W. bush junior or George H.W. Bush senior? Becuse daddy bush is the ISTJ.)

 

[Adymus]

?? Yes, a hell of a lot of articles say hes an ENTP or maybe an ENTJ....

A lot of articles were wrong, he is definitely an F.

And that is damn sure not Te he is throwing out at us.

 

[Adymus]

Guy who gave the republican responce speech after Obama's State of the Union:
Bob Mcdonnell: ISFJ

 

[Words]

Are you serious? Reasons for not getting into politics would be a much shorter list.

IxxJs are agenda pushers.

Their Dominant function, either Ni or Si, gives them a worldview or vision that they would like to see brought into the world. They then use their Auxiliary function, Fe or Te to accomplish this. An Ni user will have a vision of how things should be in the future that they will try to push forward, and an Si user will have their historical model of how things past, and try to restore how things used to be. Then a Te user will accomplish this task by organizing, planning and creating the right systems that must be in place, and an Fe user will persuade, move, rally the people to get what they want done.

What better place to get your agenda across than politics?

I was expecting the Introversion played a bigger role against and not towards leadership. Somehow makes me feel confident. But, I guess we're talking about mature introverts.

 

[shoeless]

introversion =/= lack of social/leadership skills.

 

[Words]

introversion =/= lack of social/leadership skills.

if introversion=energy low when # of people high, if introverts prefer less frequent social attraction as oppose to reflection, the general trend would be "lack of social/leadership" skills(as compared to extroverts). Eh, could you please explain more frequently so I wouldn't need to ask...(this is a plea).

 

[shoeless]

introversion =/= energy low when # people high.

introversion = energy low after prolonged social exposure.

obviously there's a trend with introverts (especially less mature introverts) being socially awkward due to a lack of social experience, compared to extraverts at the very least, but that doesn't mean introverts are inherently bad leaders. because it is a skill like anything else. and like adymus said, the field of politics in particular might be more attractive to certain types of introverts as opposed to many types of extraverts (who we could say have a tendency to prefer to go along with how things are rather than try to change things).

 

[Words]

introversion =/= energy low when # people high.

introversion = energy low after prolonged social exposure.

obviously there's a trend with introverts (especially less mature introverts) being socially awkward due to a lack of social experience, compared to extraverts at the very least, but that doesn't mean introverts are inherently bad leaders. because it is a skill like anything else. and like adymus said, the field of politics in particular might be more attractive to certain types of introverts as opposed to many types of extraverts (who we could say have a tendency to prefer to go along with how things are rather than try to change things).

Still, isn't introversion a socially(thus, politically) major negative setback? By this big factor, I'd imagine the numbers would be in favor of extroverts.


"I would be careful of eating something that would lessen my energy but satisfies me" as oppose to "I'd love to eat this energy-giving and satisfying nutrition!"

 

[Adymus]

Correction:

Introverts are drained by the external world. This is not necessarily exclusive to social dynamics of the external world, and what it is exactly what the social world what will cause a person to loose the most energy will depend entirely on their type.

An IxTP (Ti Dominant) is most drained by the social dynamics of the external world (Fe)
An IxFP (Fi Dominant) is most drained by the systematic dynamics of the external world (Te)
An INxJ (Ni Dominant) is most drained by the sensations of the external world (Se)
An ISxJ (Si Dominant) is most drained by the chaos and unpredictability of the external world (Ne)

Now social activity will still be draining for just about all of us, but for Ti dominants it is to a much greater extent. This also does not mean all introverts are socially awkward, what creates social awkwardness is how well you use your articulation functions, which are Fe and Te. Since Fe is polar to our dominant function and least developed, it causes us (INTPs) to be rather socially awkward. But for types that naturally have stronger articulation functions such as INTJs/ISTJs and INFJs/ISFJs, they tend to be very competent in the social exchange to the point where they are quite often mistaken for extroverts.

 

[Words]

Correction:

Introverts are drained by the external world. This is not necessarily exclusive to social dynamics of the external world, and what it is exactly what the social world what will cause a person to loose the most energy will depend entirely on their type.

An IxTP (Ti Dominant) is most drained by the social dynamics of the external world (Fe)
An IxFP (Fi Dominant) is most drained by the systematic dynamics of the external world (Te)
An INxJ (Ni Dominant) is most drained by the sensations of the external world (Se)
An ISxJ (Si Dominant) is most drained by the chaos and unpredictability of the external world (Ne)

Now social activity will still be draining for just about all of us, but for Ti dominants it is to a much greater extent. This also does not mean all introverts are socially awkward, what creates social awkwardness is how well you use your articulation functions, which are Fe and Te. Since Fe is polar to our dominant function and least developed, it causes us (INTPs) to be rather socially awkward. But for types that naturally have stronger articulation functions such as INTJs/ISTJs and INFJs/ISFJs, they tend to be very competent in the social exchange to the point where they are quite often mistaken for extroverts.

..but compared to the extroverts...

 

[Adymus]

..but compared to the extroverts...

No, it is at best a minor set back that is easily overcome.

Being stimulated by engaging the external world is not what makes you a better politician. The ability to push an Agenda is what makes you a better politician, and that is something that IxxJs are inherently better than the ExxJs at. This is why emperors and great leaders are so consistently INTJs and not ENTJs.

 

[Words]

No, it is at best a minor set back that is easily overcome.

Being stimulated by engaging the external world is not what makes you a better politician. The ability to push an Agenda is what makes you a better politician, and that is something that IxxJs are inherently better than the ExxJs at. This is why emperors and great leaders are so consistently INTJs and not ENTJs.

Aye, it does seem to make sense. I've always wondered why many politicians I met look so..."fake". Blabbing about "I did this" and "I did that"---looking like a selfish dirty tyrant.

 

[Sparrow]

Stalin, Roosevelt, Churchill...

Any ideas?

 

[ckm]

I wonder what it'd be like to have an xNxP leader.

 

[bananaphallus]

This is probably irrelevant, but a pretty interesting article here concerning US Presidents' (...mostly Dubs McBush's) alleged IQs:

http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/users/gary/iq.html

 

[Claverhouse]

This is probably irrelevant, but a pretty interesting article here concerning US Presidents' (...mostly Dubs McBush's) alleged IQs:

http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/users/gary/iq.html

IQ is never more than guesswork --- and profound intelligence does not necessarily a good or even adequate leader make ( and can be a handicap in both establishing rapport with the masses and in causing one to second-guess oneself too much ) --- but from the period of that paper we are not dealing with one, but with several hoaxes.

The first being the general attack and denigration of W. as a dummy; the second being the Lovenstein Report referenced there ( the Lovenstein Institute being a trailer... [ Kudos to whomever it was for fooling so many ! ]) used to back-up wistful belief in his low IQ; and the third being, at the time of his election, Obama's vast IQ --- which I remember as if it was yesterday, and which I found as hilarious then as now. One of his people actually said that his IQ was too high to be measured...

Now, no-one who survives in politics long enough to become president is either going to be stupid --- and those who control the presidency, and who gets to be president, have no use for inadequate tools who can suddenly make an emotional catastrophic decision --- so it can be assumed that we are dealing with intelligent men. Particularly as most legislation, arguments over legislation, economics, and issues ( eg: policy papers ) are now all too complex and crappily expressed for most of us to begin to understand.

However, electioneering over, both Bush and Obama appear to have IQs in the mid 120s, which is more than sufficient. There have been reports that Bush's is 142, which would put him in the Hitler/Nixon range of high intelligence, but I'm not seeing it.


There's a bunch of people here with alleged high IQs I wouldn't let run a kindergarten. http://www.kids-iq-tests.com/famous-people.html




Claverhouse

 

[Anthile]

Politics is always the triumph of mediocrity.

 

[bananaphallus]

IQ is never more than guesswork --- and profound intelligence does not necessarily a good or even adequate leader make ( and can be a handicap in both establishing rapport with the masses and in causing one to second-guess oneself too much ) --- but from the period of that paper we are not dealing with one, but with several hoaxes.

The first being the general attack and denigration of W. as a dummy; the second being the Lovenstein Report referenced there ( the Lovenstein Institute being a trailer... [ Kudos to whomever it was for fooling so many ! ]) used to back-up wistful belief in his low IQ; and the third being, at the time of his election, Obama's vast IQ --- which I remember as if it was yesterday, and which I found as hilarious then as now. One of his people actually said that his IQ was too high to be measured...

Now, no-one who survives in politics long enough to become president is either going to be stupid --- and those who control the presidency, and who gets to be president, have no use for inadequate tools who can suddenly make an emotional catastrophic decision --- so it can be assumed that we are dealing with intelligent men. Particularly as most legislation, arguments over legislation, economics, and issues ( eg: policy papers ) are now all too complex and crappily expressed for most of us to begin to understand.

However, electioneering over, both Bush and Obama appear to have IQs in the mid 120s, which is more than sufficient. There have been reports that Bush's is 142, which would put him in the Hitler/Nixon range of high intelligence, but I'm not seeing it.


There's a bunch of people here with alleged high IQs I wouldn't let run a kindergarten. http://www.kids-iq-tests.com/famous-people.html




Claverhouse

Worryingly, I learned of the Lovenstein 'study' and researched its veracity further after seeing it cited as a legitimate source in a textbook - was more interested in the upper part of the article I've linked to: the section discussing the 'findings' of the Simonton study conducted for Political Psychology Journal - which do seem to be, at the very least, more thoroughly fussed-about and 'existent' than the Lovenstein-sham's; and if anything the pseudo-data lend credence to the claim that W. Bush is by no means stupid - possibly not as given to intellectual pursuits/openness or as naturally inquisitive as some of his predecessors - but intelligent nonetheless.

Here's the link to a PDF of Simonton's study - http://www.ahealthymind.org/ans/library/Bush%20Simonton%20President%20IQ%2006.pdf

Obama's IQ - forgive me if it sounds slightly hyperbolic - may very well be...infinity.

 

[Claverhouse]

Obama's IQ - forgive me if it sounds slightly hyperbolic - may very well be...infinity.

He has yet to show it. The rat-like cunning needed to prosper in Chicago politics doesn't transfer well to the White House ( this is not an insult, I like rats more than people; and Chicago always seems exquisitely funny * ). A brilliant mind would have not entered the presidency completely unprepared --- it took about 8 months before he had all his nominees in: if they are all in yet. Even the communists or nazis managed to get all their boys in the right offices and all their ducks in a row when taking office, elected or otherwise... And no-one with great ability could screw up his healthcare plan through pure laziness as did Obama.


Which is not to say he is not better than Bush, even if he has continued all the Bush doctrines as a faithful successor**: I prefer lazy modest leaders to posturing moralist zealots, just that he is, as one comment said "This is but one more demonstration that Obama is just Bush without the blistering IQ."

[ http://leftinthewest.com/diary/4014/obama-the-unitary-executive-and-you ]





Claverhouse



* Chicago: Did you note that when the unfortunate 'The very model of a modern major governor' Blagojevich*** nobly threw himself on his sword to preserve the honour of the state, and nominated Roland W. Burris as successor to Obama's senatorship, the latter had already had his damn laudatory mausoleum built whilst still living ? Like a miniature pharaoh.

http://wonkette.com/405196/roland-burris-has-already-constructed-his-terrifying-death-chamber




** As I said in another place:


In the dying days of the Bushie Reich, the old buster omitted either to spend half of the income on covering the USA with concrete, presumably feeling this was redundant, or more pertinently, to shoot his fool head off — then again he never had a traditionalist bone in his body — but did find time to take West Virginian Flying Squirrels off the Endangered Species List.

We can only hope that Obama, despite coming not to destroy the Bush Law or the Neocon Prophets, but to fulfil, will rectify both the plight of the squirrels and the leaving of the White House in the approved manner. If only he could be persuaded to regard them as furry little bankers, wisely hoarding their nuts for the benefit of all… bankers.






*** The notoriety of Chicago in the Age of Blagojevitch and Obama irked some states who felt they had a better claim to fame:



Having been born in New Jersey and lived here most of my life with time out for college and the U.S. army, I must confess I was a bit out of sorts over all the attention that Illinois and former Governor Rod Blagojevitch was receiving or the constant references in the press to that state’s record of corrupt political officials.

I was upset, too, when South Carolina’s governor grabbed all the headlines because he had a paramour in Argentina and, upon discovery, concluded it was just one of those teaching moments in one’s life to learn from while continuing to be governor.

So, naturally, I was delighted to see that New Jersey has once again reclaimed its title as the most corrupt State in the Union. This is a distinction that our elected and appointed officials do not take lightly.


http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2009/07/new-jersey-were-number-one-again.html



He goes on to say:


A headline of one sidebar article on the arrests declared New Jersey “The Most Politically Corrupt Place on Earth.” That is pure hyperbole. There are nations in Africa, not to mention, Russia, and much of Asia and South America, that are far more corrupt than the Garden State.


This is called 'faint praise'...

 

[Andropov]

Hitler was either an INFJ or an INFP.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Nein! Nein Nein!

 

[tikru]

I don't think it is so simple to define Hitler as an INFJ because there are many factors other than inherent nature that contribute to his 'vision that must be fulfilled'

Here's a report of Hitler's personality: http://library.lawschool.cornell.ed...ons/Donovan/Hitler/upload/Hitler-Section1.pdf

 

[The Frood]

had

no rational basis for hating the jews (more of a gut-instinct type thing);

Well, he didn't just wake up one morning and say "The Jews are the scum of the earth, the cause of all our problems, and should be killed"

He was born and raised in Austria, a very ethnically diverse population, and thought that the reason for Austria-Hungary's problems is all these different groups sniping at each other. He saw Germany, a (mostly) homogeneous nation, as vastly superior. He may also have been influenced by anti-Semitic literature while still in Austria.

He hated the Jews especially because they didn't have their own state/country so they had to leech off of other countries, and he thought that they tried to take control of their adopted nations, especially through finance. He looked at the capitalistic countries around him, and saw that they were controlled by finance, and to him that meant Jews, he also saw communism as a Jewish ideology.

Hitler was a soldier in the German army during WWI, and came to believe that the communist/Bolshevik movement in Germany had undermined the war effort and eventually lead to German surrender (the German army had never really been decisively defeated, so he figured that the people back home had given up the war). Now remember to Hitler Communists = Jews

Hitler saw Judaism everywhere, in both communism, the parliamentary democracies, the christian church even. and to his mind these institutions/ideologies would bar him from recreating Germany into the world power it should be.

He believed that Jews were the problem in a whole spectrum of issues. Including genetics. so he had pseudo-scientific evidence (eugenics, which was generally accepted as scientific fact at the time.) that Jews were an inferior race. He Believed that different races where inherently stronger etc, and that the Anglo-Saxons, and Aryan races were at the top, and the Gypsies, Slavs, and Jews were at the bottom.


So Hitler had reasons to hate the Jews, which in a sense were at least kindof rational.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Hitler didn't hate Jews...it was just part of the propaganda he used to rise to power and invade Poland.

The reason why he was able to get where he was and do the tings he did was because he was one step ahead of everyone else. He knew how to use the vengefulness from WWI and hate of Jews in favor of his campaign.

 

[walfin]

I wonder what it'd be like to have an xNxP leader.

Such a person as supreme leader would likely end up a puppet. (note: they could probably be leaders in a specialised field)

Puppets are not necessarily pushovers, others could simply work their way around them.

 

[The Frood]

Hitler didn't hate Jews...it was just part of the propaganda he used to rise to power and invade Poland.

The reason why he was able to get where he was and do the tings he did was because he was one step ahead of everyone else. He knew how to use the vengefulness from WWI and hate of Jews in favor of his campaign.

Seriously? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

"Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews." ~Adolf Hitler 1922

Why then did he keep the trains rolling right until the end? If it was just a propaganda tool, wouldn't you ditch the whole holocaust thing and focus your resources on the oncoming red hordes?

The Holocaust doesn't really factor in with the idea of lebensraum (reason he invaded Poland) except that everyone in the lands would need to be killed. Both his anti-Semitism and idea Lebensraum are outlined in his book Mein Kampf. Hitler was anti-Semitic while he was still in Vienna, before the first world war!

What then was the holocaust itself for? the concentration camps were not propaganda tools, nor were the SS, or the death squads, or the ghettos. Why were Jews rounded up in the occupied territories? If it was all for propaganda why was so little of above things made known to the German public?

So, what exactly was Hitlers "campaign" then, that he used the Holocaust as a tool for?

A very significant portion of Hitler's world view and political policy was based on the inferiority of Jews.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Seriously? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

"Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews." ~Adolf Hitler 1922

Why then did he keep the trains rolling right until the end? If it was just a propaganda tool, wouldn't you ditch the whole holocaust thing and focus your resources on the oncoming red hordes?

The Holocaust doesn't really factor in with the idea of lebensraum (reason he invaded Poland) except that everyone in the lands would need to be killed. Both his anti-Semitism and idea Lebensraum are outlined in his book Mein Kampf. Hitler was anti-Semitic while he was still in Vienna, before the first world war!

What then was the holocaust itself for? the concentration camps were not propaganda tools, nor were the SS, or the death squads, or the ghettos. Why were Jews rounded up in the occupied territories? If it was all for propaganda why was so little of above things made known to the German public?

So, what exactly was Hitlers "campaign" then, that he used the Holocaust as a tool for?

A very significant portion of Hitler's world view and political policy was based on the inferiority of Jews.

1.) Germany is screwed over from WWI
2.) Hitler devises a plan to get revenge/gain power
3.) Hitler blames Jews for all of Germany's problems
4.) Hitler proposes a plan to get rid of the Jews and return Germany to power
5.) German aristocrats, workers and general citizens give national support to Hitler for returning Germany to power and getting rid of the supposed evil Jews
6.) Hitler begins the discrimination and, later, genocide of the Jews and other minorities
7.) Hitler continues propaganda that Germany will get better as the Jews are put in their places
8.) With so much support, Hitler turns Germany into a dominant military force
9.) Hitler, controlled by domination and power, begins to plan the spread of Germany's control

Why did concentration camps linger after his rise to power? I don't know, but it would be pretty silly of Hitler to order his military to stop burning the Jews all of a sudden, when he demonstrated his utter contempt for them in his rise to power. Hitler was greedy and corrupt with power, that is why WWII happened, not because of his Antisemitism. He wanted more territory and other countries fought back.

 

[epyon]

Such a person as supreme leader would likely end up a puppet. (note: they could probably be leaders in a specialised field)

Puppets are not necessarily pushovers, others could simply work their way around them.

No, who the fuck gave you that idea?

Are you an INTJ?

 

[The Frood]

1.) Germany is screwed over from WWI
2.) Hitler devises a plan to get revenge/gain power
3.) Hitler blames Jews for all of Germany's problems
4.) Hitler proposes a plan to get rid of the Jews and return Germany to power
5.) German aristocrats, workers and general citizens give national support to Hitler for returning Germany to power and getting rid of the supposed evil Jews
6.) Hitler begins the discrimination and, later, genocide of the Jews and other minorities
7.) Hitler continues propaganda that Germany will get better as the Jews are put in their places
8.) With so much support, Hitler turns Germany into a dominant military force
9.) Hitler, controlled by domination and power, begins to plan the spread of Germany's control

Why did concentration camps linger after his rise to power? I don't know, but it would be pretty silly of Hitler to order his military to stop burning the Jews all of a sudden, when he demonstrated his utter contempt for them in his rise to power. Hitler was greedy and corrupt with power, that is why WWII happened, not because of his Antisemitism. He wanted more territory and other countries fought back.

I never said that WWII happened specifically because of his antisemitism.
However, racial predjudice did play a big role in it, he thought the "racially pure" German people needed more room to live "lebensraum" and to get that land, the racially inferior people to the east (poles, slavs etc) needed to get liquidated (that's why he invaded Poland(among other reasons which include Hitler wanting formerly German lands back, etc) and the USSR.)

"not because of his Antisemitism" so you admit he hated Jews, which was my whole point.

With the might of the USSR bearing down on your country, and the Americans and British coming in from the other side, why would you keep on with something that was only a propaganda tool and a waste of resources? That makes no sense. He believed his racial theories.

Also, if the holocaust was only a propaganda tool, why was so little of it declared to the German public?

5) Hitler was elected by only 44% of German voters, hardly a majority.
"Why did concentration camps linger after his rise to power?" Um they only came into being AFTER he came to power not before.

9) while Hitler may have been affected by megalomania (and all the drugs he was taking...), he had always planned to spread Germany, see "lebensraum" an idea which he outlines in Mein Kampf which was published in 1925, Hitler came to power in 1933.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I never said that WWII happened specifically because of his antisemitism.

However, racial predjudice did play a big role in it, he thought the "racially pure" German people needed more room to live "lebensraum" and to get that land, the racially inferior people to the east (poles, slavs etc) needed to get liquidated (that's why he invaded Poland(among other reasons which include Hitler wanting formerly German lands back, etc) and the USSR.)

"not because of his Antisemitism" so you admit he hated Jews, which was my whole point.

[/quote]I've said Hitler did not hate the Jews earlier. I was being rash, but I admit that there was instilled prejudice. What I was trying to say though was that the main motivation of Hitler's actions was not hatred and furthermore he did not hate the Jews as much as he made apparent. I realize I cannot measure hatred, especially in a dead man, or any man for that matter, but Hitler's plans were obviously geared toward a higher purpose than elimination of the Jewish race. He was not controlled or blinded by his hate, he was controlled by power.

With the might of the USSR bearing down on your country, and the Americans and British coming in from the other side, why would you keep on with something that was only a propaganda tool and a waste of resources? That makes no sense. He believed his racial theories.

Or you could say that he was corrupt with power.

Also, if the holocaust was only a propaganda tool, why was so little of it declared to the German public?

Because they might have objected to it? I only said Hitler had plans to remove the Jews from power and later did he begin the Genocide. Their discrimination was not private as Jews were occasionally beaten and killed in public. The actual burning was not a public matter but as part of the general discrimination to get red of them, it stayed true to his propaganda.

5) Hitler was elected by only 44% of German voters, hardly a majority.
"Why did concentration camps linger after his rise to power?" Um they only came into being AFTER he came to power not before.

I meant military power; once he turned Germany into a force to be reckoned with(near the invasion of Poland). And support comes in more forms than votes.

9) while Hitler may have been affected by megalomania (and all the drugs he was taking...), he had always planned to spread Germany, see "lebensraum" an idea which he outlines in Mein Kampf which was published in 1925, Hitler came to power in 1933.

I never disagreed with lebensraum.

 

[The Frood]

Sure he may have corrupt with power, but that was not the driving force behind a lot if not most of his plans and actions, many of which he outlined long before he had any power to be corrupted by.