Pod'Lair review

[BigApplePi]

As I stated, accuracy of identification of Cognitive Configuration. Look at the video.

That's the 2nd time I watched this video. I like Adymus's abilities. Lots of energy. Lots of expession. I could not do that. However my concluding question is exactly like the 1st time.

Does anyone reading this thread realize that Adymus repeating "right answer" many times does not define what "right answer" means?

I will try again. Suppose a proposed rock is displayed. Adymus reads it as a rock and so does everyone else at Pod'Lair. A novice reads it as a sponge. We agree Pod'Lair has the right answer. One novice is wrong. This is only consistency. That rock must be taken to the lab to confirm is it a rock.

If you don't like my example of a rock, I'll try to come up with something better. How about "mirage of water on a desert horizon"? Everyone agrees it looks like water. Further analysis shows it was not the right answer.

What I'm saying if it look likes a duck, smells like a duck and f#&k's like a duck, it may not be a duck.

 

[Lyra]

Oh God Pi. This has all been dealt with at excruciating length. Yes, the point you're making was immediately apparent to everybody. And implicit or explicit in many of the arguments you've successfully failed to extract the usable data from.

Oh btw, it seems you haven't done basic Research. Please see here before continuing to elaborate upon this fundamental barrier to further useful communication.

 

[Fukyo]

It's high time for to ignore BAP's posts and just stop replying to them if they bother you so Lyra. Or, you know, actually put him on ignore through the forum.

I'm piping in here briefly without the intention to derail this thread to remind people about what Architect said earlier concerning hostilities that are obstructing discussion. I've overlooked the recent commotion, but I want to remind Lyra and anyone picking on him and generally inciting hostilities that the next time this time happens all participants are netting a temp ban.

Now, back to the thread.

 

[BigApplePi]

Podlira Sells to Baponai

Podlira: Have I got a used car for you!!! It has wind proof guidance, a super turbo carbonizer, a rearview spoiler, a solar paneled break system, spare tire drive, and an auto scrape deicer.

Baponai: Didn't I see something like that down on Broadway?

Podlira: Ours is far better than theirs. We have 8 gears with 16 quantized cruiser control.

Baponai: Yeah but theirs has easy access automatic seat cushioning.

Podlira: That's old hat. Ours will eventually outsell the world.

Baponai: Yeah but theirs is already in the real world. Methinks you're apeshit* crazy.

Podlira: Don't get snippy with me. Didn't I just tell you ours has a dual super polished fully vacillating cup holder system?

Baponai: I missed that. Could you run that by me again?

Podlira: I'm not repeating myself all over again & again twice. Go back and read the brochure you Wyy brained dunderhead**.

Baponai: You haven't answered my questions. Your auto doesn't drive mentally/ physically challenged drivers. And what about those with left frontal spirit?

Podlira: Our auto is for superior people: people of our cult-ure not the likes of you. I know all about your type and it's convincingly sub-normal.

Baponai: I admit you are a Heroic Superperson in your own eyes but what about my questions?

Podira: If you can't read what I've said, you are a crapenut potwailer with zai chi overtones and don't deserve me, as great as I am. I've better things to do with my time. I'm not stooping to your sub-par juvenile level. Stay off my parking lot or I will sic my hammer after you.
______________________

*jargon for batshit.
**standard terminology (not jargon according to most standards).

 

[Lyra]

@Fukyo in case you haven't noticed he mentions me about 10 times a day in various threads, and addresses questions directly to me (making it out as a model failure if I don't respond), and also PMs me. I've asked him to stop many times and have about a 90% success rate in ignoring him. I think that's pretty good?

 

[Fukyo]

If you ignore him through the forum you'll stop getting any notifications from him. I don't know how much of a loss it'd be for you to stop seeing his posts though.

I wasn't aware BAP was sending this much unwanted attention your way.

And BAP, dude...really? No means no. Don't turn this into harassment.

 

[Lyra]

Any Nyy'xai out there, I can't recommend the new four-part series on Nyy'xai Temple highly enough. It's some of the best content P'L has put out, IMO. Meshes with my experiences, and clarifies things I spent agonised months trying to make sense of, like nothing else has even approached.

Remember that Coach is describing the Peak Pathway, or heroic storyline. This might not immediately seem that familiar to you, but feel for how it relates to what you do when you get energised or when something really matters to you, or in crisis situations. With a little direction you can begin to walk this pathway-- it's what you're designed to do.

If you have overall model criticisms, please take them to one of the main channels (preferably EoE). This is learning environment for people already working with the material, and needs to be free from excessive static/pressure. I've refrained from hotlinking the videos on the forum for that reason.

@Architect let me know how you get one with First Gear etc. Will get the read to you that you asked for probably within the next day.

 

[BigApplePi]

@Fukyo

In case you haven't noticed he mentions me about 10 times a day in various threads, and addresses questions directly to me, and also PMs me. I've asked him to stop many times and have about a 90% success rate in ignoring him. I think that's pretty good?

Aside from this complaint he has just registered (which is untrue in the sense of gross exaggeration), I am trying to critique Pod'Lair. I've addressed almost as many comments to Architect as to Lyra and have found Architect's responses more than adequate. Lyra being Pod'Lair's representative here is fine by me as long as he can keep separate personal innuendo's from scientific inquiries.

He has never asked me not to send him a PM message. It was sent in good faith and I give him permission to repeat it here.

 

[Lyra]

Actually I've asked you to leave me alone and not address me several times, and you've been creating threads about me and randomly, constantly talking about me personally for weeks now. You were also obsessed with me last time I was here, before any involvement with Pod'Lair.

I think it was originally to do with the other-than-male entity who used to go by 'Lyra' in various places. Upon learning that I was male your obsession somehow warped into a new form, and you constantly justify it with things like 'oh but he's so asking for it!' and 'but he taunts me so!'. Honestly I'm in a relationship and it's kind of creepy.

That said, I can't ask you not to discuss Pod'Lair, and perhaps things weren't clear. So I'll just ask you again now not to talk to me anymore and let bygones be bygones. Unfortunately, and much as it confuses and seems bizarre to one such as me, I have a history of attracting over-zealous hangers on! I actually have a dedicated email account where this one guy has been writing to me everyday for a couple of years now! He still thinks I'm some Satanic DarkMaster or something, lol. He has an imaginary version of me he talks to for advice on life-matters 24/7. And he's not the only one! If you want, I can give you the address! And you're free to re-create an imaginary Lyra to possess your thoughts and answer you as you will!

 

[BigApplePi]

If you ignore him through the forum you'll stop getting any notifications from him. I don't know how much of a loss it'd be for you to stop seeing his posts though.

I wasn't aware BAP was sending this much unwanted attention your way.

And BAP, dude...really? No means no. Don't turn this into harassment.

@Fukyo. Aside from the (what I thought deserved after his frequent personal put downs of others) satire I published just now, how would you like me to post? Can anyone say I am guilty of harassment? If he is personal in his statements, he brings up personal topics and I respond to that. I find Pod'Lair has flaws. He is unable to answer to those flaws outside of unexplained generalities. So I try harder.

Presently I do not see any published connections between Pod'Lair's visual reading and long term behavior temperament. He so far has not acknowledged that. It may very well be that reading INTP may identify a true long term behavioral INTP but no connection has been made by Pod'Lair. Perhaps I should not push this point, but he has continually responded to me. I can stop talking to him, but he hasn't directly ... wait. I see another post by him to me. More work if I'm to answer ...

 

[Fukyo]

I will pm you about this BAP.

 

[Lyra]

Btw everybody, more video content coming from yours truly at Pod'Lair's London Colony soon! Expect new faces, new ways of doing things, and more of you daily dose of Pod'Lair intrigue (including bonus OMGWTF special extended episodes!). My old content wasn't really well done and I was still in a recovery state from a major op. The new stuff will be of a different kind :3

We will soon be launching our Journalism Channel, and some time after that more specialised channels. These will involve, amongst other things, depth coverage of news stories and individuals using Mojo Reading, and real-time possibly annotated Reads on archive footage in which we demonstrate how we do things.

Watching a skilled reader work in real-time is really something, and we're going to be pumping out a lot of these. We also recently developed actionable plans to topple a South American Banana Republic and lay the foundation stones for the revolutionary Empire! Stay tuned!

To the stars!

 

[BigApplePi]

Lyra review

Actually I've asked you to leave me alone and not address me several times, and you've been creating threads about me and randomly, constantly talking about me personally for weeks now. You were also obsessed with me last time I was here, before any involvement with Pod'Lair.

In exactly what way would you like me to leave YOU alone? How about leaving ME alone right now? I just looked up my threads created. I don't see ANY created about you. Did I mention you ever? Maybe. I don't keep track. I don't recall discussions on any other thread about you. Did I? Could be, but I make hundreds of messages. Are you reading them all? Just who is obsessed here? You have put me down on occasion and exaggerated about me (right now) suggesting I am doing something bad. I ignore that, but it did come out with today's satire post. Did you like it? Do you find it hurtful or mean in ANY way? Think Voltaire.

I think it was originally to do with the other-than-male entity who used to go by 'Lyra' in various places. Upon learning that I was male your obsession somehow warped into a new form, and you constantly justify it with things like 'oh but he's so asking for it!' and 'but he taunts me so!'. Honestly I'm in a relationship and it's kind of creepy.

I discard and ignore your previous female persona. The only thing it says to me now is if you misled Forum members once, can you be trusted now?

That said, I can't ask you not to discuss Pod'Lair, and perhaps things weren't clear. So I'll just ask you again now not to talk to me anymore and let bygones be bygones.

I can do that, but what if there is overlap? What if you say PL this or that? I can make any responses generalities, but aren't people going to know I'm responding to what you said? You want me in a box? How do I say, "In this post, I quote Lyra saying this" and do so without referring to you? You are a public figure.

Unfortunately, and much as it confuses and seems bizarre to one such as me, I have a history of attracting over-zealous hangers on! I actually have a dedicated email account where this one guy has been writing to me everyday for a couple of years now! He still thinks I'm some Satanic DarkMaster or something, lol. He has an imaginary version of me he talks to for advice on life-matters 24/7. And he's not the only one! If you want, I can give you the address! And you're free to re-create an imaginary Lyra to possess your thoughts and answer you as you will!

You want me to disengage from you and now you are offering me addresses? My life is complicated enough. I think I'd rather talk about you with sane people rather than one of your crazies, thank you.

Damn. Okay send me the address but how are you going to do that since PM's are verboten?

 

[Lyra]

Pi do I really have to go hard evidence on you (I mean, outside of this thread)? Or set up complex rules? I'm just sayin' it's not working and would you please stop bothering me so, esp. given that Fukyo is now asking me not to respond to you? I'm not interested in this. Have a little tact? I don't want to give y'all the displeasure of legalistic talk. Like I said, I can't stop you talking about Pod'Lair but a little less of the obsessive would help.

Also I never misled forum members in the way you're implying. At any given time we've (I also speak for departed entity-presence-people-things) been honest about what's going on/what Lyra is. People just tend not to listen, or to assume what's being said is abstract as opposed to right-now and actual. By calling me dishonest you're pushing an image of what living entities are limited to being that I never promised I fit.

Oh man this is so dull. What is wrong with you people, not just doing some basic research, giving a good faith effort to understand what another's position actually is, and focusing on the arguments at hand. Why this endless distraction and incompetence and stereotyping and... just so, so dull.

 

[Lyra]

If you're interested in Pod'Lair itself, btw (as opposed specifically to berating me sometimes in, sometimes out of, association with it here), there's lots of places you can go find out about it or fight about it or whatever. Try the EoE channel or whatever. This thread is mostly about Architect's personal review, and I think that process is the only value it's really giving anyone. It's what I'm interested in discussing here as well. I'd recommend doing some research before filling it up with tired old tropes that we've answered so many times before.

 

[BigApplePi]

If you're interested in Pod'Lair itself, btw (as opposed specifically to berating me sometimes in, sometimes out of, association with it here), there's lots of places you can go find out about it or fight about it or whatever. Try the EoE channel or whatever. This thread is mostly about Architect's personal review, and I think that process is the only value it's really giving anyone. It's what I'm interested in discussing here as well. I'd recommend doing some research before filling it up with tired old tropes that we've answered so many times before.

Your courtesy here is appreciated. I will do my best so you will feel not harassed* by me and in turn I hope you will do the same by me. I googled EoE and find that is not going to help as I don't see a place to dialog and can't watch hours of video. I conclude we should agree to disagree.

I had an interesting conversion once (2010?) with Adymus once on consistency of identifying temperament.

I wish us luck. Whew!
________________________
*Note that ultimately I cannot control your feelings no matter what comes from the outside.

 

[BigApplePi]

@InvisibleJim. In defense of Pod'Lair that differs from cults is that it doesn't hide. Its system is out there written and on utube. That makes it open, not closed to critique. Nice going on your video finds though. It is one of the nice things about freedom of expression on this Forum. If only we could maximize it in society in general.

One thing to watch out for is critiques are limited. One may not slander or libel ... IOW hurt people. However there are qualifiers about this. Public figures are open to comment as for every hurt there is praise. Note that this is a private(?) Forum though. Hurt is defined differently here. Pain goes both ways. Moderators decide* what is fair and unfair. So we have to follow that.
__________________
*They have the final say, but hopefully there is input from both sides to bring out what is necessary for justice.

 

[Architect]

Architect let me know how you get one with First Gear etc. Will get the read to you that you asked for probably within the next day.

@Lyra

Thanks. I think I'll try and wrap this up with an evaluation of the accuracy of first gear. I'll view some celebs, check them for cues, get a sense of the accuracy of the cues, and report back here.

After that, if I find the accuracy and value high enough, I'll continue at my own pace.

 

[Anarkandi]

What if your read of me is wrong.. What if Im not a "guru" but a normal 20 year old boy just curiously exploring different theories on how people work?

 

[InvisibleJim]

Deleted as per admin notice to give Lyra a break.

 

[Impact Calculus]

What if I'm not a "guru" but a normal dumbass?

That would be fucking fantastic.

But alas,


[Peoplerhetorics.com ]

 

[Architect]

OK, home stretch of this review, I'm surveying the list of Pod'Lair INTP's/Zai'nyy. First, Daniel Dennett. An atheist philosopher I was familiar with but didn't happen to think of him as INTP.

Dennett on Charlie Rose

PL Read: Dennett is a skilled speaker (as a long time professor and having been in front of the camera) and doesn't give off a lot of cues. However, I see small amounts of ...

• Checking to the right (could also be due to his position relative to the host).
• Cool resonation, stone face
• Hooded eyes
• Dancing eyes, bobble
• Warm articulation
• Spider hands

Furthermore, as I watched him, I could see that he probably is an INTP. Is there a Sensor sitting there? No. A Feeler? No. An NT, a philosopher NT. Not a lot of possibilities. Most of what he said is something I could say. In fact much of it I have said. Personally I could envision 'being' him.

Checking in with my usual, rather poor methods of public typing (looking at biography and behavior) I also see an INTP.

Conclusion: PL probably accurately typed/Read Daniel Dennett as an INTP/Zai'nyy.

 

[Architect]

Odo!

Rene Auberjonois

• Hooded eyes
• Check down mostly (other interviews show left and right checking)
• Cool resonation, stone face
• Dancing eyes, bobble
• Warm articulation
• Spider hands

I watched several interviews with him, INTP seems clear.

 

[Architect]

Next up, somebody else I'm quite familiar with, Michael Shermer

This was interesting which is why I picked it out. I never particuarly thought about it, other than I thought he was probably a Feeler, perhaps a SF type. So, was he really an INTP? Fascinating, let's watch ...

Michael Shermer

No, I'm still not seeing INTP. I'm not picking up on Cue's, and instead am still seeing a Feeler.

Check out 2:50, the smile lights up his face, above the midline.

Conclusion: OK I'm not an expert at 1st gear reading, but this one appears to not be an INTP, despite the proclivity for degrees and skepticism.

@Lyra, perhaps you could fill us in on PL thinking on this individual.

 

[BigApplePi]

Here is a person, well known and possibly the best known here rated as INTP by Pod'Lair and rated INTJ or even INFJ by others. Although INTP may be correct, what is the evidence that he is so if you were to meet and interview him in various surroundings? Isn't that the true test for INTP as opposed to just clues given by visual cues? My critique of Pod'Lair rests on its failure to present even summaries of such interviews. Until then we only have the immediacy of a short video. Which is he and how are we to decide? My claim is if there is the slightest doubt of such a famous person, how are we to be so certain of the others?

Now a necessary requirement for INTP is Zai; for INTJ is Zyy. These must be defined else we don't know what we're talking about. I will not bother with INFJ. Here are Pod'Lair's own definitions:
====================================

ZYY
 Concept: The System
 Tech Specs: Directive Objective Logic-Based Discernment
 Considerations: Discernment & Objectivity
 Priority: Dynamics Mover
 Power Flows: Ambition, Thirst for Challenge, Directness, Efficiency, Authoritativeness, Decisiveness, Assessing, Strategizing, Planning, Organizing, Scheduling, Sequencing, Protocol Enforcement, Universal Operating Procedures, Systemic Logic, Going for the Win, Straightforwardness, Forcefulness, Systemic Relationships, Systemic Dynamics
 Distinct Signal: Bracing
 Psyche Location: Left-Front Quadrant | Discernment Corridor | Logic-Based Channel
============================

ZAI
 Concept: Perfection
 Tech Specs: Adaptive Subjective Logic-Based Discernment
 Considerations: Discernment & Subjectivity
 Priority: Compass Bearings
 Power Flows: Clarity, Lucidity, Precision, Accuracy, Dispassion, Logical Purity, Diagnostics, Experimentation, Principle Understanding, Customizing, Situational Logic, Situational Analysis, Refining, Sharpening, Re-perfecting, Calibrating, Rectifying, Reactive Theorizing, Deductive Reasoning
 Distinct Signal: Unflappable
 Psyche Location: Right-Rear Quadrant | Discernment Corridor | Logic-Based Channel
==============================

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wl1CuqC5_7w

 

[Lyra]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS_JAA9OG-w

 

[InvisibleJim]

I watched to 2 minutes, the first point was never raised in the other video. Both theories are bunk pseudoscience, Pod'lair is just another alternative pseudoscientific cognitive style model.

Why say something that you can in 10 minutes when you can say it across 72 minutes. Oh well, enfps.

Oh well, at least he ?looks? happy.

 

[crippli]

I liked that fairy story Coach talked about with ~ENFPs. It was a new take I haven't heard before. I was quite fascinated, and watched the whole thing. What interesting creatures.

 

[Anarkandi]

Why do you feel threathened by a notmal kid with a blog? I am just doing some part time exploring. I am not around for anything but curiosity.

 

[BigApplePi]

Adymust-Pod'Lair review

INTP or INTJ? Certainly I admit I'm not a Pod'Lair reader nor am I a good judge of human behavior. That's why, as a poor student I ask about this. Seems like this Adymus is overwhemingly J in this video. Now does that mean his signs and normal behavior is P anyway? Here is Pod'Lairs behavioral description of INTJ:

ZYY Tech Specs: Directive Objective Logic-Based Discernment
 Considerations: Discernment & Objectivity
 Priority: Dynamics Mover
 Power Flows: Ambition, Thirst for Challenge, Directness, Efficiency, Authoritativeness, Decisiveness, Assessing, Strategizing, Planning, Organizing, Scheduling, Sequencing, Protocol Enforcement, Universal Operating Procedures, Systemic Logic, Going for the Win, Straightforwardness, Forcefulness, Systemic Relationships, Systemic Dynamics

Looks as if this video is awfully directive. I don't know about objective, but what of dynamics mover? He's trying awfully hard to convince. He is directive, ambitious, decisive, "going for the win", straightforward, forceful.

Now to be fair, what about the other side (I admit I'm being selective)?

ZAI Concept: Perfection
Tech Specs: Adaptive Subjective Logic-Based Discernment
 Considerations: Discernment & Subjectivity
 Priority: Compass Bearings
 Power Flows: Clarity, Lucidity, Precision, Accuracy, Dispassion, Logical Purity, Diagnostics, Experimentation, Principle Understanding, Customizing, Situational Logic, Situational Analysis, Refining, Sharpening, Re-perfecting, Calibrating, Rectifying, Reactive Theorizing, Deductive Reasoning
 Distinct Signal: Unflappable

Does he sound adaptable here? Adaptable or super-directive? He is clear, lucid, precise. That's okay. But he's not dispassionate at all. I don't know about understanding. The critique he's leveling doesn't point to understand the other fellow. Furthermore his emotion and voice says he's anything but cool. Maybe he's an INTP who is upset? Maybe he's using inferior Fe. If so, can we have another video of him in his normal state? Even if we did have another video of him in his normal state, how would we measure (tell) that's his normal state? If the MBTI has it's faults, are not Pod'Lairs faults along the same line?

What is the truth here ... can my misreadings be corrected? Tell me where I've gone wrong ... that this guy is convincingly INTP and not INTJ. I am not a reader. Why would I have to listen to hours and hours of Pod'Lair to learn what? ... and how would my doubts change considering what I've said above?

 

[InvisibleJim]

BigA, there is a Socionics phenomenom with NFs where information is digested and presented as only part of the 'whole' rather than starting with the high level subject and then drilling down.

This is due to one attitude of think being ignored whilst the other is creative leading to a rationality imbalance much like you see the emotional/social imbalances of NT types.

In a lot of pod'lairs analysis and counter critique you most often hear, ''You question our overall theory but you don't know gear 5', this phenomenon is apparent. Adymus always displayed it pre-pod'lair as well.

Of course I do love my ENFPs so he can be whatever he wants to be, fo sho.

 

[BigApplePi]

BigA, there is a Socionics phenomenom with NFs where information is digested and presented as only part of the 'whole' rather than starting with the high level subject and then drilling down.

This is due to one attitude of think being ignored whilst the other is creative leading to a rationality imbalance much like you see the emotional/social imbalances of NT types.

InvisibleJim. I've yet to get to Socionics but from what you said it sounds a lot like MBTI. For INxJ's the primary function is intuition. That intuition sees a whole without criticism. The problem is that whole does not see the even higher whole. Imbalance yes.

In a lot of pod'lairs analysis and counter critique you most often hear, ''You question our overall theory but you don't know gear 5', this phenomenon is apparent. Adymus always displayed it pre-pod'lair as well.

Gear 5:

Gear Five – Concerns itself with self-mastery and what kind of signals an individual uniquely gives off, and receives. This approach involves you being aware of your state of being as you read, and you as the reading instrument. This is a Spiritual way of reading, and follows the fifth position of the Understanding Continuum.

Another idealistic picture of the whole. Subjective Ni I suppose.*

Of course I do love my ENFPs so he can be whatever he wants to be, fo sho.

I can't comment here.

I expect to put out a Pod'Lair refutation soon. Not new, but not answered either.
_____________________
*Qualifier: This comment refers to on the spot interpretation, not what may change over time.

 

[Lyra]

I expect to put out a Pod'Lair refutation soon. Not new, but not answered either

You really are a pos. I have answered and you refuse to look and then continue making assertions like these. How can I answer if you won't even read what I've put out before? I've made posts (on Cartesianism etc.) explicitly addressing the kinds of things you're bringing up, and most of your critiques demonstrate you're just not familiar with the subject matter. Every time I tell you this you act as if I'm avoiding the question. No-- stupid/misinformed questions with little meaningful relation to claims being made just can't be meaningfully answered.

What you are doing is exactly equivalent to critiquing a physics theory without taking the time to familiarise yourself with the mathematics used to prove it. Perhaps the math is wrong, perhaps it isn't. But you can't meaningfully assess or understand the theory in terms of just whatever reference points you had beforehand, without learning the math. And attacking people talking about the theory for 'avoiding your questions' when they tell you this could only be called stupid.

Actually what you're doing is even worse-- you're refusing to even work out what the theory is, at all. You seem to just be reacting to posts on this forum, and second-hand, misunderstood accounts of what we're claiming. Yet you spend a lot of time writing about it. It's truly bizarre behaviour, which I can only assume you continue with because it's me personally who's writing about Pod'Lair.

Also, every time I try to explain this to you, you dismiss my posts as 'subjective feelings'. No, I'm a logic student (and a damned good one at that) and I'm knowledgeable in the Philosophy of Science and the arguments central to the topic at hand. I'm arguing these. You're the one who won't engage rationally but insists upon pushing yourself on the whole issue regardless.

@Fukyo

Another idealistic picture of the whole. Subjective Ni I suppose.

No, the 5 gears system goes from very literal/concrete up to very interpretive. Dismissing this as 'subjective Ni' without presenting that in terms of the gear-system as a whole and how signals are consistent between each of the gears is just lazy and dishonest.

In a lot of pod'lairs analysis and counter critique you most often hear, ''You question our overall theory but you don't know gear 5', this phenomenon is apparent. Adymus always displayed it pre-pod'lair as well.

The 5 gear system is the crux and foundation of everything of any use to people learning Pod'Lair theory. To attempt to critique it without familiarising yourself with at least what we're claiming this system is is just taking shots in the dark. I do not understand how people can so lack pride in their judgements and analyses that they would make them known without this kind of basic groundwork.

 

[BigApplePi]

Pod'Lair Refutation?

We've been directed to this post several times and believe it deserves a reply. I hope to say something at least a little new as I'm still searching for closure to this Pod'Lair review. I've posted a Pod'Lair objection for which no one has countered.

Btw this mobbing is tiring. I provide a far deeper epistemological justification for my position repeatedly than any of you ever have for your endless, plebian side-line snipes and uninformed critiques. I've clarified this in terms of Philosophy of Science, laid out its whole logically necessary structure, and refuted hundreds of different baseless assertions. I have won this argument many times over by any rational standard. All that has been presented in return is gossipy/stereotype-based characterisation. More people incapable of research jump in each new day, and the old ones try to find some new snag in my words they can try to trip the whole thing up on-- but nothing genuinely new is coming through.

Personal attacks are not only hurtful. They detract from the issue.

Refuting arguments by presenting an encyclopedia makes it difficult to find those refutations. However one single argument not refuted and admitted not refuted can blow the theory. Then one does not have to read the encyclopedia in every detail at all.

That you all keep writing stupid shit doesn't mean you've presented a superior understanding of what proper Scientific Inquiry is or how this relates to it. Doesn't mean that you've found any holes in the step-by-step explanation I provided of how this theory and our conduct unfolds from Reading.

I've presented a hole* in the theory. That hole (briefly) is that our conduct is not verified over time to match the reading cues.

Doesn't mean you're any more than one more lazy, mundane voice that only feels arrogantly entitled enough to comment because it's used to the lazy, mundane culture which bred it. You present a full critique and assessment, demonstrating familiarity with former discussions and understanding of what this is (and of Reading etc. and its yields, at the very least up to or beyond the level of familiarity and comprehension Architect has displayed) or you're just spewing.

I believe Architect HAS been working successfully on whether the visual cues match up with what the six letter codes describe. I don't believe those descriptions/cues/codes are verified to match temperaments/conduct over time. Pod'Lair is silent as to this. If I am wrong here ... well that's the purpose of this post. It's like saying Pod'Lair reads this as a dog. We define dog and have a 90 percent match with our dog definition. Ninety percent is very good. But what if the dog turns out to be a wolf or a fox?

Just trying to find some lazy characterisation you can use to place this whole thing in relation to the phantasmagoria or irrational forms and unfounded epistemological arrogance this culture and your unrefined character have imbued you with. Just trying to attribute a screen of labels, a superficial causality, and so think you have 'understood'-- because, for you, that's what understanding consists of. Just showing you're another sycophantic coward who's far more concerned with the roles that certain ways of speaking and presenting oneself allow in this cultural climate than with what is, and, because of that, what we could be.

No vision. No intelligence. No empathy with what a phenomenon or individual or event actually is. Just phantasmagoric 'explanations' of what, to maintain the petty psychic landscape you've staked your social role and self-image in, must be 'explained' away.

Demonstrate that you are above this norm, or you're getting ignored and treated as static-- useless, indistinct noise.

Yes. Competence counts. I'm not saying that Pod'Lair fails to do anything with spot reading behavior and then doesn't follow up with interpretations of that reading. Far from it. Pod'Lair starts off well, but falls down later.

Temperament studies are certainly valuable. It's just that I question the accuracy of labels over time. Enough said.
_____________________________

*Even one of the greatest mathematicians of all time, Issac Newton has had his theory blown later by Einstein.

 

[Lyra]

I've presented a hole* in the theory. That hole (briefly) is that our conduct is not verified over time to match the reading cues.

The whole point is that that isn't a hole in the theory, becuase cues aren't separable from conduct. You do not understand this because you either a) don't know what the gear system is and/or b) are only focusing on a very limited version of part of 1st gear.

Also it does match up over time, but you need to be able Read to have a basis for matching it up on a more so-called 'psychological level'. You can see it match up over time over a whole day of watching a person. Or fifteen years apart when they are energised in precisely the same way, with precisely the same patterns of momentum and modulation. It all does click-- far more so than any other psychological model out there-- but you need a basic awareness of the elements in play to see how fruitful they are in terms of organising and explaining human behaviour.

 

[Lyra]

Also-- I'd note that you're still using MBTI terms to attempt to 'explain' this away, and that they have nothing backing them by any standards anywhere near as demanding as the ones I'm accepting presenting Pod'Lair by.

 

[InvisibleJim]

InvisibleJim. I've yet to get to Socionics but from what you said it sounds a lot like MBTI. For INxJ's the primary function is intuition. That intuition sees a whole without criticism. The problem is that whole does not see the even higher whole. Imbalance yes.

Certainly so. They are explaining similar behavioural tendencies with a different cognitive black box.

Also-- I'd note that you're still using MBTI terms to attempt to 'explain' this away, and that they have nothing backing them by any standards anywhere near as demanding as the ones I'm accepting presenting Pod'Lair by.

Hmm, nope. All I have seen from pod'lair are four things:

a) A statement that pod'lair is a 'proven' system with evidence that pod'lair enthusiasts are 'still gathering' :/
b) A bundle of typing videos and list of types, mostly with an INFJ bias due to the person performing the typing; generally in favour of Fe and Ti cues.
c) Lots of bile regarding, truth = truth and you don't understand everything, whenever queried on a lack of proof provided by pod'lair
d) A manual on the pod'lair website which tells what the theory is but not the proof.

By contrast to the proof from other pseudoscientific personality authorities, e.g. the Bukolov and Gulenko tests for Socionics or the database of studies applying MBTI in work and personal contexts this is not substantially better proven.

The difference is that none of these theories state to be quantifiably measureable, only that they are qualifiably useful in context to gauge differences.

There is no baseline to measure any of these theories against.

 

[Impact Calculus]

Why do you feel threathened by a notmal kid with a blog?

Please don't attack strawmen.

I am just doing some part time exploring. I am not around for anything but curiosity.

You concede to have stolen PL material and based your theory off of Pod'lair; and your commercial site, as we speak, is riddled with plagarism and theft of intellectual property.

 

[Architect]

Checkpoint: so far PL 60%-40% on my informal survey. I think they got Dan Dennett, Rene A and Jim Parsons right, and Albert Einstein and Michael Shermer wrong. Small sample size, and who says I'm right, but again this is a personal evaluation and not attempting a scientific study (which is probably not possible anyhow).

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise with Michael Shermer, the floor is open.

 

[InvisibleJim]

You concede to have stolen PL material and based your theory off of Pod'lair; and your commercial site, as we speak, is riddled with plagarism and theft of intellectual property.

Pod'lair corporation, international, foundation, joint stock company. Producing, refining and delivering only the finest and best hot air, with Thomas 16 secret herbs and spices, which conveniently are identical to everyone elses secret herbs and spices, whether requested or not since 2011.



Analytical psychology shares, as good as gold.

 

[Architect]

Next up, Bill Nye

Bill Nye

Again not somebody I associate with INTPism, he seemed (offhand) to be somewhat like nerdy sensor types I knew. However watching the video it seems obvious from a PL perspective as well from a classical MBTI.

Spider hands, check left and right, other cues. Looks and acts like a Ti, with some Ne bounce.

PL right: 4/6 66%
PL wrong: 2/6 33%

 

[BigApplePi]

Pod'Lair-spider hands

Here is a basic question I've missed the answer to. We know spider hands are one on one with INTP's ~ ZaiNyy's. Is that really true? The other possibilities are INTP's might exist who don't do spider hands and there might be non-INTP's who will do spider hands. I want to know the correlation.

I kind of intuitively understand how the spider hands came about. They indicate a Nyy like openness to a broad conceptual expression ... as opposed to pointing with the index finger, etc. This is consistent with INTP.

Now here is my question: What does Pod'Lair have to say about how they found this as an indicator? Is this part of their 1000's of observations where they determined INTP's by some other means and then observed a high correlation with spider hands?

I'm am trying to collect basic critical Pod'Lair information. If this can't be answered I'm not going to watch hundreds of hours of videos. I hope someone has a concise one or two sentence answer.
_____________

While I'm here, another question. A good many cues name "right" or "left." I believe I've heard left-handed people can have different brain arrangements ... certainly SOMETHING is different. Does this broaden the left and right theme to EITHER direction instead? Was this meant for right-handed people only? Again I'm not looking for paragraphs of research. Just a yes or no will do as basic.

 

[BigApplePi]

Refutation Comment 1

I've presented a hole in the theory. That hole (briefly) is that our conduct is not verified over time to match the reading cues.

... HAS been working successfully on whether the visual cues match up with what the six letter codes describe. I don't believe those descriptions/cues/codes are verified to match temperaments/conduct over time. Pod'Lair is silent as to this.

When I refer to cues, I take Pod'Lairs Sourcebook definitions:

Five Gears of Mojo Reading - Physiological Cues
1. Gear One – Focuses on the individual anatomical parts that manifest the eight Pod Powers. This is the most component way of reading, and follows the first position of the Understanding Continuum.
2. Gear Two – Focuses on combinations of eight Pod Powers into Energy Fields. This is the Concrete way of reading, and follows the second position of the Understanding Continuum.
3. Gear Three – Focuses on actual Cognitive Configuration designs, of which there are 16, this is the tacit way of reading, and follows the third position of the Understanding Continuum.
4. Gear Four – Focuses on developmental riff categories of the Mojo designs. This is an Artistic way of reading, and follows the forth position of the Understanding Continuum.
5. Gear Five – Concerns itself with self-mastery and what kind of signals an individual uniquely gives off, and receives. This approach involves you being aware of your state of being as you read, and you as the reading instrument. This is a Spiritual way of reading, and follows the fifth position of the Understanding Continuum.

My interpretation of these is that each gear/stage is built upon the prior. I think I will use the term stage as it is a little closer to common usage. Each stage provides a foundation for the next one. The stated structure is a hierarchy going from sensory (Se) signals to each of 8 meanings to combining pairs making 16 combos. Stage 4 is looser and Stage 5 is more subjective and involves self-awareness of the reader. Starting from basics, patterns arise.

This is how I interpret the theory without having to learn all the reading myself. (My intention is to evaluate, not to become a reader myself. Personally I'm intrigued by the potential to read friends, strangers and TV personalities better.) I remain unconvinced about reading validity over time. Furthermore if one looks at what those five stages mean, there is plenty of room for error as one goes up the scale. By that I mean as one progresses from stage 1 to stage 5, inaccuracies creep in.

I observe Pod'Lair fails to rate their readings with a bracket of accuracy. Different person; different accuracy as illustrated by the Einstein read failure. This makes readings a measure of unreliable. That is, inconsistent.

Please note that I've not memorized the Pod'Lair terms. I keep forgetting what is what. One must pronounce them as well as spell them. So I'm using the MBTI correspondences instead. This Forum understands what I mean when I say INTP.

 

[Architect]

Re: Pod'Lair-spider hands

Here is a basic question I've missed the answer to. We know spider hands are one on one with INTP's ~ ZaiNyy's. Is that really true? The other possibilities are INTP's might exist who don't do spider hands and there might be non-INTP's who will do spider hands. I want to know the correlation.

I kind of intuitively understand how the spider hands came about. They indicate a Nyy like openness to a broad conceptual expression ... as opposed to pointing with the index finger, etc. This is consistent with INTP.

Yeah these are good questions, ones I don't know the answer to.

Fundamentally all we have to judge a persons type externally are cues, and we have to constantly keep in my that correlation isn't causation. The presence or absence of a single cue isn't a deal breaker, but one must take the sum of all cues to decide. Some cues ...

• PL cues
• Past behavior
• General physiognomy (i.e. ISTP's tend to be endomorphs, INTP's tend to be ectomorphs)
• Speech patterns
• Apparent dominate pattern (look for a function)
• Ways of dressing (INTP nerds tend to dress a certain way, ESFP's another)
• Interests
• Work life
• Social life

All these should be considered to discover a persons type IMO.

 

[Lyra]

I observe Pod'Lair fails to rate their readings with a bracket of accuracy. Different person; different accuracy as illustrated by the Einstein read failure. This makes readings a measure of unreliable. That is, inconsistent.

Wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about, as usual. Also fuck you for calling it a 'failure', given how I dealt with the whole situation. I'm write here as one person constantly mobbed by many dozens of unthinking off-hand reactions, and attacked on any and every possible misinterpretation in my presentation-- yet the idiots who make various and usually completely refuted challenges don't seem to hold themselves to any standard of consistency in their critique. Or to supporting the many assumptions they employ in those critiques (as you do in yours) with anything like the depth/explicitness with which I've clarified Pod'Lair's epistemology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJiFeQTKZOM

 

[Impact Calculus]

No u

Please learn how to construct a logical argument.

If you want to try to claim that we type people, by all means; but until you get, y'know, that stuff that backs your position, your claims are going to be, y'know, weak as fuck.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Please learn how to construct a logical argument.

If you want to try to claim that we type people, by all means; but until you get, you know, that stuff that backs your position, your claims are going to be, you know, weak as fuck.

Another Pod'lairite from the flawless land of 'we'.

http://www.podlair.com/images/Typology%20Town.pdf

Spade = spade.

 

[Lyra]

@Architect answers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ye9_eCm7w

 

[Lyra]

@ All: not planning on posting to the forum for a while (probably the next few months at least). Focusing on increasingly demanding creations and relationships offline, with any online presence allocated to the central Pod'Lair Platform.

Honestly you all need to do a lot more work before you present any kind of 'critique' anyway, so that should give you time to mature your thinking to a stage where it's somewhat more worth dealing with. If there's anything worthwhile I might get to it next time I check in.

That said, I enjoyed this little episode! Farewell for now...

 

[BigApplePi]

Refutation-accuracy

I observe Pod'Lair fails to rate their readings with a bracket of accuracy. Different person; different accuracy as illustrated by the Einstein read failure. This makes readings a measure of unreliable. That is, inconsistent.

I failed to make my meaning more clear.

Architect has done some samplings and is working on those. At present he is describing accuracy of several of his readings. These are accuracy readings among a population. What I was after was individual confidence readings. That is, I read Adymus. I am 75 percent confident he is INTP; 20 percent INTJ; 5 percent INFJ. Like that. Same for Einstein. Distinguish between a "soft" read (not so accurate) and a "hard" read (I am very confident). For Einstein, 50 percent INFx; 50 percent INTP as a sloppy example. More data, more time put in, then greater accuracy.