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Pathfinder: Good Campaign Yes?

Cognisant

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Come to think of it isn't there anything about asymmetrical cover/concealment?

If Lilith is firing from a castle window at an orc in the courtyard below from her perspective the orc is totally exposed even though from the orc's perspective she's got partial cover and possibly even partial concealment if it's daytime outside and she's firing from an unlit room.

Essentially, is it absolutely necessary for Lilith to have flyby attack to use cover/concealment to make sneak attacks without leaving herself stranded in the open until her next turn, in the window example can't she just peak out, fire, and duck without moving from that spot?
 

Hadoblado

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My understanding is that asymmetrical cover is fine, and thus flyby attack is not necessary.

I've issued another round of Subplot messages. Most are complete. Dormouse I need to hear from you :)

The doodle responses imply Sunday morning could be good. Not sure if we can get off the full session though...
 

Rook

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Ok so sometime in the foreseeable future I plan to join one of yer campaigns, I am currently downloading the core rulebook to start learning, any tips for essential information that a newbie should attain before attempting a campaign?
 

Cognisant

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d20pfsrd.com is my go-to source of information and I then go to the pazio forums (just google whatever + Pathfinder) to see what the community thinks about vague rules and how to make use of things that at first glance seem useless.

If you want someone to investigate options for you by all means I love character creation :D
 

Rook

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d20pfsrd.com is my go-to source of information and I then go to the pazio forums (just google whatever + Pathfinder) to see what the community thinks about vague rules and how to make use of things that at first glance seem useless.

Thanks, I guess it will be take quite a while for a new campaign to start so hopefully by then I will be cognizant of the basic underpinnings.

If you want someone to investigate options for you by all means I love character creation :D

Your words sound so...ominous.
Character creation is something I look forward to quite a lot, and from what I have seen in this thread, your characters usually come out quite... entertaining(I recall the adventures of a selfish rogue that got to the loot while the others were still fighting) so sure, I may take you up on that offer.
 

Jennywocky

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Cog is good for ideas; run it by hado or RB to make sure it's legal.

Looking forward to dying alongside you someday.....the more the merrier....bwa haha.
 

Cognisant

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Tiefling (lose the resistances to bring it down to RP10)
Alchemist, combined Beastmorph and Vivisectionist archetypes (you can do that).
Key feats: Weapon Finesse, Lunge
Key discovery: Feral Mutagen

At level 6 you can charge, attack an enemy 5ft away (say for example on the other side of an ally), make three attacks (pounce) and if you've done it in the right conditions you've made a sneak attack which means each hit you land does an additional 3d6 damage per attack on top of the damage the claw and maw attacks already do normally. Tieflings have a racial bonus to dexterity, the alchemist mutagen further boosts your dexterity, so you'll have a very high chance of hitting your opponent and if you hit with all three in sneak attack conditions you'll do 11d6+1d8 which will kill most things outright and make barbarians feel impotent :D

And there's many ways to take this even further...
 

Cognisant

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Also who wants to play with Strange Fluids?

At 2nd level Lilith will become an alchemist and be able to craft drugs, they're mostly not worth the risk of addiction however with a high alchemy skill check she can identify with 75% accuracy the effect of the Strange Fluids. So over time an making lots of checks she can eventually determine when it's likely to bestow an exceptional side effect, however this is not guaranteed, there's an inherent 25% chance of misidentifying the effect.

If the effect is misidentified you have a ~35% chance of getting something really bad.

So who feels lucky?
 

Hadoblado

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@Cog
I may choose to put strange fluids in the campaign, but it seems a bit far fetched given that they're supposed to leak from spaceships and the like. ATM I'm just trying to get a few of the basics in with some pet exceptions to keep it interesting. Speaking of which:

Traps are something that will be coming up. I thought it best to give you a warning since you don't have a rogue which makes stuff a little trickier. You may even see some combat. :cat:
 

Jennywocky

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Side note: In case my current local group doesn't like my current character going psionic lich, I scaled up little V'as (the vanaran monk) as my backup for that group using Monk Unchained (CL:12, Monk 9 / Seer 3).

Even with only half the allotment for magic items (since they cost double in that world), she's sick. Monk Unchained doesn't do archetypes yet (so no MoMS), but even just having her be a crane/panther style monk where she has to switch out, her AC is essentially 38 (touch/ff 28), and that's with no armor. The problem is more with hitting, since she's only +14/+14/+9 when flurrying right now, but she's got an improved trip attack, potential for 6 AoOs per round, and if she is AoO'ed while running the battlefield (she will be generating AoO's on purpose, if she can get them to swing at her) she can get up to 5 free attacks retaliating for anyone who swings at her. Alternately, if she's stationary, she gets a Crane Riposte attack if her main target misses her.

They added these cool style feats too in Unchained, and she has two: the Leg Sweep (if you use it as one of your attacks in a flurry, you get a free Trip attack) and the Running Kick (you can count one of your attacks anywhere in sequence as a Running Kick, which lets you move up to the total of your extra Monk speed bonus -- hers is 30' -- ending in the noted attack and then continuing your flurry on the new target). Seriously, if you picture this stuff like a martial arts movie, it's pretty cool and gives more versatility.

I gave her the Psion: Seer levels just so she's wouldn't be a one-trick pony. Monk skill points suck (especially with little to invest in INT), but now she has a range of lower-level psionic powers like Area and Object Reading, etc.
 

Cognisant

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I may choose to put strange fluids in the campaign, but it seems a bit far fetched given that they're supposed to leak from spaceships and the like.
Fair enough, I'd chalk this up to keeping the unobtainium away from the loon :D

What about drugs in general though, here's the thing they make better poisons than actual poison and they're dirt cheap to produce and even if the enemy gets away the eventual withdrawal will cripple or kill them.

If Lilith fires two arrows into somebody, one coated with Shiver and the other Opium they'll at best gain immunity to fear for 1d4 minutes, +1d8 temporary hitpoints and +2 on fortitude saves for an hour, but also (without a save) suffer Fatigue, 1d4+1d2 Con damage and 1d4 Wis damage, possibly fall asleep too.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs/opium
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs/shiver

The kicker is that these drugs are 25gp and 50gp and the negative effects don't allow a save, heck Lilith could coat both arrows with Opium (which is a really considerate way to kill someone) to do 2d4 Con and Wis damage and increase the addiction DC by 2, each consecutive dose doing more ability score damage and taking the addiction DC even higher.

Maybe the temporary hitpoints stack but still the higher in level we are the more hit dice our enemies will have and thus the more effective constitution damage becomes, not to mention it's bringing that all important fortitude save down...
 

Cognisant

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I don't really get what drugs are about, unless you're a paladin you can't use them because they'll just kill you, indeed poison immunity just means alchemists get nothing out of them which in of itself is telling, are drugs supposed to be an updated kind of poison for alchemists?

Any other class (other than maybe a rouge) would have a hard time getting them.

The addiction mechanic is just so... hateful :D
 

Cognisant

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While taking multiple doses of a drug at once rarely has any benefit, taking additional doses as the effects wear off renew those effects but increase the ability damage and potential for addiction.
This just gets better and better, too good in fact.

Here's a thought just remove the ability damage effects, Opium in real life isn't anywhere near that deadly, heck as written opium dens in pathfinder should be full of corpses because most drugs will kill an average person in merely a few days. Without the ability score damage there's still the ability score drain of addiction and if your character is addicted to several drugs those drain effects will completely incapacitate them unless they keep getting their fix, the longer they abuse the drug the harder it is to get off it.

The save DC against addiction is still really high (opium DC20) and it increases by 2 with each dose so those could be lowered because that's unrealistically fast addiction, but then again I suppose drugs in real life don't boost your stats or give you temporary hitpoints so maybe that's fair.

I can still use drugs in combat, they'll have no immediate effect but if the it looks like the bad guys is winning or about to run away inflicting him with multiple addictions is a neat way to force parlay or ensure he doesn't get far.

Drugs lacking ability score damage also means Lilith can abuse them, although she'll wake up every morning incapacitated until her familiar or another player doses her up. The higher in level she gets the more drugs she'll be able to afford being addicted to, that is until she gains poison immunity (aka develops a resistance) and then is still heavily addicted but doesn't gain anything from it.

Admit it, being high all the time would explain why my characters behave the way the do :D
 

Jennywocky

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lol... you're still going on this?

Can I have a hit? That must be good stuff.
 

Cognisant

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As much as you want, as much as you want...
 

YOLOisonlyprinciple

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Ehmm guys..
i saw this thread and i have no idea what this is about.
im not from the west, so im not familiar with stuff which isnt on youtube

Is this game similar to the Dungeons&Dragons game they play in "the big bang theory"?
 

Cognisant

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Yes, an alternate/updated version of it.
 

Jennywocky

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God, don't bring that TBBT crap into our beautiful, wonderful gaming thread! (That show is for non-geeks who want to wrap themselves in the false vestige of geekdom.) :D

... although I heard about the episode where they were using gaming dice to make daily life decisions. That's rather amusing.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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Nice progress, seems Hado is doing really well. Congrats people. I volunteer for scripting the final Big Bad that will make you bite the dust.

edit:I take back awesome, there is some progress, but it looks promising.
 

Jennywocky

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uhhhh... thnx? :confused: :mad: no take-backsies
 

Jennywocky

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We're still on this weekend, right-o?
 

Hadoblado

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Okay so this session coming we'll be trying out our first dungeon and I'll be trying out quite a few elements once more. It will be the first time you're denied access to town, so you should try to be as prepared as you can.

+ Rad'rax grants every member a bottle with 20 pills inside. Each pill restores one hit point but requires a standard action.

+ Bundy and Sir Gregor of Haitch'Arr will be joining you once more, though again, they will not be participating if they can at all help it. You get the feeling Bundy isn't great at combat, and that Gregor simply doesn't care if you live or die. :cat:
 

Jennywocky

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Magic Vitamins! Wheee! They will make my face look pretty and young!

... actually, the real question: What am I gonna do with this damn dog? If it can't fight, I can't really take it with me. Or can we? Is there a point in taking these foo-foo dogs with us anywhere?
 

redbaron

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I'm going to have nightmares about being trapped in a maze of endless doors.
 

Jennywocky

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This was fun. I guess i had to give them back the staff, though. :(

NO MOAH DOAHS.
 

Cognisant

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Lilith gives the studded leather armor back to the party kitty.

She has the Enchanted Skull (gagged) and poisoned dart in her inventory.

She'll give whatever monetary excess is gained from selling the skull to the party kitty after finding out how much having the fat curse and drug addictions removed will cost.

Lilith is also selling all alchemical items to the party at a 20% discount, except Harpy Musk which is 20gp due to being in a goblin city.
 

Jennywocky

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What, you're saying the party has to cover your detox program, after you went and smoked a pipe in an opiate den by choice?

Also, last time everyone paid to lift their own curses. It will run you 15-25gp probably. If you want to sell the skull for us, feel free; but I don't think anyone agreed the skull would be used to cover those costs for you, unless we're covering everyone out of party funds.
 

Hadoblado

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The skull isn't worth anything. People don't spend money like that. It's a gimmick not an artifact.
 

Cognisant

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I don't have to spend 750gp on a potion, I could just keep making fortitude saves with cheaper alchemical buffs and NPC medical assistance but I figure the sooner Lilith is back on her feet the sooner she can get to work making things for the party.

It's not like I have to make items for you, nor did I have to declare what I thought the skull was worth, I could have just sold it secretly, besides now that we've established just how incredibly harmful drugs are it works both ways...

The skull isn't worth anything.
Well then I'm keeping it, at very least it's magical so it must have some degree of damage resistance and when I get Throw Anything it'll make a great novelty weapon :D

Edit: No damage resistance, damn.
Maybe I can attach it the longbow somehow, with a latch on the mouth so I can shut it up when I want to.

It may be worthless but it has sentimental value.
 

Cognisant

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Come to think of it we need to work on our breaching strategy, as an alchemist Lilith will be able to make time delayed explosives so we can blow open doors and all rush on a readied action, if there's anyone inside we'll get a surprise round.

Also who has worthwhile melee attacks and what's your AC?
We need our melee attackers up front because archers and casters incur AoO's, I say we make RB the functional party leader because he's our tank, so he doesn't have to keep asking where we want to go, we just follow where he goes; of course this also means he gets first priority for buffs, healing and defensive items as he'll likely need them most.
 

Jennywocky

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Isn't this what we've informally already been doing? (Aside from any alchemical attacks you haven't been doing yet?) I'm confused. Basically Ax and Kahn have been rushing ahead to do melee, the ranged folks do their thing, and I stand back and cast spells. If you want to develop strategies to potentially generate surprise rounds, that's cool.

My main issue with Kahn's smashing doors is that we can no longer close them, in case we need to retreat abruptly and block people from pursuing us.

It's not like I have to make items for you, nor did I have to declare what I thought the skull was worth, I could have just sold it secretly, besides now that we've established just how incredibly harmful drugs are it works both ways...

I don't think I ever asked you to make items for me at this juncture. I'm also an arcane caster, I know how much the skull is worth on my own and I watched you take it without asking the anyone in the group if they wanted it or if it was part of the group loot.

You also took the eyeballs explicitly after I asked for them (and then handed them off to someone else), and I just didn't make an issue of it because I didn't want to derail the gameplay, although I guess in character I should have played Falisa to be more of a drama queen about it because being ignored like that would have pissed her off -- especially from a bird person who was too scared to even go through two doors into the room she was shooting at something in, having to fire through a narrow space right over Falisa's head and otherwise using Falisa as a body shield to protect herself from attacks that likely wouldn't come her way anyway. Falisa has no armor or melee skills, yet she was getting closer to the baddies than Lilith was.

I can sit here and make reasons why everyone should give me stuff too, if you want. For example, giving me extra things I can use while the rest of you are doing what you're good would actually be beneficial to the group, considering I'm the most limited member of the group right now (I have 4 spell effects I can use, two of them can be used once per adventure, and the other two can only be used once per creature, and all of them only last a round -- notice how I was running away from everything because I can't actually do anything effective after that?) That will change once I'm level 3-4, but right now it's a real pain and my versatility is limited. But in the meanwhile the group can decide what it wants to do, and I'll keep doing what I do as effectively as I can.

Well then I'm keeping it, at very least it's magical so it must have some degree of damage resistance and when I get Throw Anything it'll make a great novelty weapon :D

For one item, you can use it as a make shift alarm, if the party needs to rest. Anything approaching us would trigger it. But you'd have to keep it from talking in your pack, potentially.
 

Cognisant

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Isn't this what we've informally already been doing?
We weren't getting surprise rounds for breaching, it wasn't an issue but when Lilith gains a level of vivisectionist I'll be keen on getting those sneak attacks.

My main issue with Kahn's smashing doors is that we can no longer close them, in case we need to retreat abruptly and block people from pursuing us.
Smoke sticks might work, it's no real barrier but enemies would have to be pretty foolhardy to rush blindly after us.

You also took the eyeballs explicitly after I asked for them (and then handed them off to someone else), and I just didn't make an issue of it because I didn't want to derail the gameplay
I was just bottling them to get things moving, first in first served.

especially from a bird person who was too scared to even go through two doors into the room she was shooting at something in, having to fire through a narrow space right over Falisa's head and otherwise using Falisa as a body shield to protect herself from attacks that likely wouldn't come her way anyway. Falisa has no armor or melee skills, yet she was getting closer to the baddies than Lilith was.
I don't know what your character is (sorcerer I assume) or what she can do, last time I had a high AC character and offered to tank you dryly retorted that everybody's AC was over 20.

I can sit here and make reasons why everyone should give me stuff too, if you want.
As a matter of fact that's helpful, better that you tell us what you can do and what you need to do it so we can help you help us, I don't want to be discussing who holds what in the middle of a dungeon.

For one item, you can use it as a make shift alarm, if the party needs to rest. Anything approaching us would trigger it. But you'd have to keep it from talking in your pack, potentially.
Maybe holding the mouth shut works, maybe the sequence is line-of-sight activated, maybe the jaw moves when it speaks (potential trap trigger).
 

Jennywocky

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We weren't getting surprise rounds for breaching, it wasn't an issue but when Lilith gains a level of vivisectionist I'll be keen on getting those sneak attacks.

So you're going to Ranged sneak attack?

Smoke sticks might work, it's no real barrier but enemies would have to be pretty foolhardy to rush blindly after us.

if you need someone to throw a smoke stick, feel free to give me a few... as long as they will not get my beautiful hands dirty.


I don't know what your character is (sorcerer I assume) or what she can do, last time I had a high AC character and offered to tank you dryly retorted that everybody's AC was over 20.

Not sure what that has to do with this particular group. That was another group where I was running a dex-based melee fighter, who was the main fighter in the group; it seems odd to assume the main fighter in the group would need to be tanked. (I think you also tried to enlarge me, which would have screwed up my character more than helping.)

Maybe holding the mouth shut works, maybe the sequence is line-of-sight activated, maybe the jaw moves when it speaks (potential trap trigger).

you can test it in down-time, before we play again. (Just send Hado a note of what you're doing and trying to figure out.) And when we catch someone with it, we can tie them up, then tell them that it's the skull of the last person that tried to sneak into our group.. Bwa ha ha
 

Cognisant

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So you're going to Ranged sneak attack?
When possible.
I need to sort out my macros, I forgot to add my class BAB.
At 2nd level Lilith will have BAB 2 + 4 DEX (five with the buff spell) + 2 Mutagen + 1 Point-Blank Shot, that's 9 to 10 all up, so she'll hit more often than not.

I shouldn't have wasted that Drow Poison on the ogre, I knew it would have an impressive fortitude save, if we'd breached with readied actions I could have used Perfect Strike on David Bowie and we would have captured him alive, oh well I'm sure we'll meet him again.
 

Jennywocky

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When possible.
I need to sort out my macros, I forgot to add my class BAB.
At 2nd level Lilith will have BAB 2 + 4 DEX (five with the buff spell) + 2 Mutagen + 1 Point-Blank Shot, that's 9 to 10 all up, so she'll hit more often than not.

I shouldn't have wasted that Drow Poison on the ogre, I knew it would have an impressive fortitude save, if we'd breached with readied actions I could have used Perfect Strike on David Bowie and we would have captured him alive, oh well I'm sure we'll meet him again.

Well, you just don't know, and the GM will sometimes change how things go if it messes up the story. We're low-level. At high levels, poison can be pretty virulent, so then you save it for nasty stuff.

Generally, it's good form to use spells/items on things that are least likely to counter them, unless you don't have a choice.

IOW, make the fighters and rogues make Will saves (versus spellcasters), and make the spellcasters make Fort saves. Reflex is usually wasted on rogues and classes with evasion.
 

Cognisant

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First round throw Ghast Retch Flask, second round fire two Opium tipped arrows, if they both hit the target is going to have rubbish saves, whenever possible I prefer to capture enemies alive so is there anything Falisa can do to make this happen?

I noticed you putting people to sleep, why did that only last one round?
 

Jennywocky

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First round throw Ghast Retch Flask, second round fire two Opium tipped arrows, if they both hit the target is going to have rubbish saves,

Yeah, if you have something to "prep 'em" / AKA reduce their saves before you try to hit them with the nastier thing, then that's a viable strategy. I'll have some debuffs as well, coming up.

whenever possible I prefer to capture enemies alive so is there anything Falisa can do to make this happen?

I noticed you putting people to sleep, why did that only last one round?

Too low a level. Once I gain another level or two, it'll be more useful. Plus, I'll have more versatility.

Level 1 sucks.
 

Cognisant

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What spells have you got?
I'm sure there's something alchemical to buff Falisa with.
 

Jennywocky

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What spells have you got?
I'm sure there's something alchemical to buff Falisa with.

It's all control stuff. I have a number of spells but can't memorize many at all right now, so I stuck with Charm and Command right now. If that guy on the roof hadn't made his Will save, he would have simply jumped off the roof... heheh... taken damage and been within reach of the group so it was worth a try. Kind of a bummer he saved, but he was a spellcaster and Hado rolled high.
 

redbaron

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Cognisant said:
At 2nd level Lilith will have BAB 2 + 4 DEX (five with the buff spell) + 2 Mutagen + 1 Point-Blank Shot, that's 9 to 10 all up, so she'll hit more often than not.

IIRC you're playing a monk/alchemist? They're both 75% BAB classes so with a level in each you'll have BAB 0.
 

Jennywocky

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Maybe he can do unchained monk...get BAB that way.
 

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Ok caught up with the rest of that conversation.

The main reason I played so aggressively in that session was because I think that as a whole the party has a tendency to be on the passive side and in situations where potential outcomes are unclear, we choose inaction as opposed to action.

Breaching doors is indeed cool for special situations where we know what's on the other side...but not as manly as our current tactic! :p

Also Cog it might pay to be a little more shrewd with your character information. You're telling us about the cool abilities your character has 2-3 levels in advance of you actually doing that stuff. Wouldn't it just be that much more satisfying if you'd kept the door breaching a secret, then have your character "improvise" a plan (even though you personally had it planned) in some level 3-4 encounter, where you blow the door off its hinges and then surprise a bunch of powerful enemies with a Perfect Strike. Much more impressive when delivered that way.

What I'm saying is that it's a lot more exciting for everyone if Lilith reveals the abilities of Lilith in real time, as opposed to Cognisant doing it weeks in advance.
 

Cognisant

cackling in the trenches
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*shrugs* I enjoy the metagame and with the extracts and alchemical items soon avalible to me there will be no shortage of ways to come up with new and interesting tactics, besides when we're actually playing we've only got so much time to work with and discussing the cons/merits of detailed plans (especially those involving the cooperation of several players) will interrupt the momentum of our adventuring.

Far better I think to plan things in advance then see how they go in the field, this also gives Hado a chance to veto anything especially troublesome I might come up with and it also prevents me stepping on people's toes (somewhat).

Furthermore an alchemist, though a competent combat class in its own right, I'll be best able to support the party if I know what everyone's trying to do, like that time I tried to cast Enlarge on Jenny's two weapon fighter, I had best of intentions but didn't know it was a DEX build.

Frankly I'm amazed the way I play hasn't given you enough surprises already, if my character hasn't licked something, gotten high, pissed on an alter, set something on fire, hit on a character quite literally out of their league, buffed an enemy by mistake, or all of the above then it hasn't been a full session.

If you think I haven't played erratically enough so far just wait! :D
 

Jennywocky

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HAAADDOOOOOO!!!! WHEEEEEREEE IS MY XP???? :D

If you think I haven't played erratically enough so far just wait! :D

:eek:

Furthermore an alchemist, though a competent combat class in its own right, I'll be best able to support the party if I know what everyone's trying to do,

Falisa's goal is to be loved and admired by everyone in the group, as she rightfully deserves; and to have people look out for her when she's in trouble and give her pretty baubles and trinkets and otherwise cater to her whims, so that she can be happy.

That should be good for a start.
 

Cognisant

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Lilith makes a shopping list.

Peptus Salix 30gp 24gp
Antiplauge 50gp 40gp
Harlot Sweets 60gp 48gp
Nurse 7sp/day

"Oh don't be so horrified by the name, princesses eat them and you'd have to be a pretty sought after harlot to afford the treatment, for an aspiring sorceress this is just the thing to give you a competitive edge."

+1d4 Charisma & +1 Dexterity, not bad huh?
When Lilith can make things a bit faster I can reduce the cost to 50% possibly even less if you need me to, this is less about profit and more about being able to meet demand on demand (buying what I can't make) and investing in alchemy buffing items, Lilith will also need a portable alchemy lab sooner or later.

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure alchemical bonuses don't stack so there's no point loading Falisa up with an assortment of charisma boosting drugs and once Lilith gets her mutagen there's nothing for her to gain either, at least nothing worthwhile.
 

Cognisant

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It's only 1d2, with a nurse you'll recover it within a day and I imagine Radrax is only sending us on these raids once a week or so, maybe every 2-3 days, having a -1 on your Int mod won't affect your saves and a -1 on knowledge checks is hardly crippling, now the +1-2 increase in your DCs on the other hand that's pretty sweet and if you're not levelling as fast as the rest of us you'll need it pretty soon as those enemy saves start going up.

Or is Falisa not a charisma based caster?

You needn't worry about addiction, with the fortitude bonuses and the nurse aiding you'll have +9 on your fortitude save and the DC is only 18, I think the Peptus Salix even lets you attempt it a second time, you'd have to be pretty unlucky to roll under 9 twice in a row and you can retry the save every day.

Worst comes to worst a 750gp potion of Remove Disease will cure the addiction.
 
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