Pathfinder: Good Campaign Yes?

[cheese]

Queensland doesn't do daylight savings, dweebs.

(I know something! )

 

[Cognisant]

I have a brilliant plan

1. Make paper cones
2. Put bombs in paper cones (reduces terminal velocity)
3. Drop cone bombs from high altitude whilst flying down (fly speed x2)
4. Pull out of dive before all bombs hit enemy and explode simultaneously
5. Profit

 

[Jennywocky]

yay, we're gonna game again in a little over two days from now.

 

[Hadoblado]

Pic of my willy

 

[Jennywocky]

did anyone get the doodle? i didn't. what's the link?

 

[cheese]

Post above you - pic of his doodle.

 

[Jennywocky]

Really, it's not my fault.

I saw, "Pic of my Willy" and thought, "No way I'm clicking that."


----


Did he not set it up for time zones? I can't tell if I need to be translating times to mine.
EDIT: I assumed i was translating and did it that way.
But I'm sure absurdity will be entirely WTF about the whole thing, rofl.

Key: 10am AEST = prior day 8pm EDT & 5pm PDT

 

[cheese]

Jenny! You ALWAYS store compromising data on your DMs! You never know when it's going to come in handy, like getting you out of a speeding ticket. I keep several pics on my dashboard of RB coiled around Hado's head like a turban or life(giving)buoy for this very reason. Sadly, whipping my own willy out doesn't seem to work as a pre-emptive measure whilst driving. In fact, it seems to do rather the opposite. It post-empts any measurements I might have otherwise wished to take at red lights and provides me no protection from wailing sirens during speed humps.

Kudos on doing the translation for everyone btw - that's a real public service.

 

[cheese]

Actually is Abs even around anymore? I hope he's still going to play. Someone mentioned his avatar is gone or something.

 

[Jennywocky]

It looks like everyone plans to ignore Cog's character.
That did not take long.

Excuse me while I go seduce a halfling (right after I find him a stepstool).

 

[Cognisant]

You do that

 

[Jennywocky]

He's awful little.
In all the wrong ways.

 

[Cognisant]

Wait for it...

 

[Jennywocky]

These things take forever to inflate.

 

[Cognisant]

Not that there's anything wrong with that *innocent face*

 

[Jennywocky]

I think we should inflate it with helium.
Then I can have my own halfling balloon on a string.

 

[Cognisant]

So just to be clear, it's now canon that you're going to seduce the halfling?

The female halfling.

Assuming your character is straight the misunderstanding and resulting drama would be an excellent means of acquiring roleplay based experience points.

 

[Jennywocky]

So just to be clear, it's now canon that you're going to seduce the halfling?

The female halfling.

Assuming your character is straight the misunderstanding and resulting drama would be an excellent means of acquiring roleplay based experience points.

If it was canon, it would be in the official thread.
But it's not.
So it ain't.

First of all, it was a joke, because my character isn't attracted to certain races/types of people. (Hado knows the constraints.)

Besides, new characters keep coming out of the woodwork.
They ALL can't be female.

There's too much estrogen in this scenario.
My eggs need some air.

 

[Cognisant]

But just think of the experience points XD

 

[Jennywocky]

I think I'll just kill all of you while we're waiting and get my XP that way. This whole town is dirty suckage.

And I'm tired of asking each new person if they are that wizard guy.
That little green man was the worst, trying to pass himself off as a big-shot.

 

[Cognisant]

Really? We got along quite well.

 

[Jennywocky]

He was mean and foul-tempered, and still never introduced me to the wizard. I hate it when Apprentices Go Wild.

 

[Cognisant]

Do you mean Bundy or Radraz?

 

[Jennywocky]

Do you mean Bundy or Radraz?

Well, he CLAIMED to be Radraz.... HAHAHAHHA! Like... seriously???? He's obviously just someone's familiar, and needs to be chained up.

The real Radraz would be so much, well, taller. And handsome. And intelligent. And of course would recognize me for my ravishing beauty.

 

[Hadoblado]

Is the first timeslot on the doodle 10am saturday for you guys? That's what it on mine so if it is the same for you it's not adjusting for timezone.

 

[Jennywocky]

yeah, it's not adjusting for timezones, but I think both Absurdity and I are signed up (based on the selections).

Is everyone in the group little? Falisa should have brought juice boxes and animal crackers for them all.

 

[Hadoblado]

goddamit. how to computer?!

 

[Hadoblado]

Okay so I can't seem to get in contact with Absurdity... the man's busy or so I hear.

I'd prefer not to start without him, so if he doesn't respond soon we'll need to push the session back to the second day, or reschedule for next week : /

 

[Hadoblado]

I need character avatars/tokens for Amox, Abs, and Emmental. Those who haven't done a sheet will need to do one too -> If I can attach it to your token it makes life infinitely easier.

 

[Hadoblado]

So this is an idea I had to save time, I want your feedback on it.

Essentially, we have a separate map for representing formations. I give you access to it before each session, and you can change it around as you see fit. If you find yourself in combat without any preparedness, your character formation for that scenario (eg. 10 foot wide corridor, or open terrain) will be defaulted to. Essentially, you're able to represent how your party ventures when battle is not assumed, with fighters up front or whatever.

This allows me to save time by not making maps for anything that doesn't actually require them. I would preferably only use maps for things that have a spatial component, such as combat or particular types of puzzles. Then drop you in the appropriate positions according to your pre-defined formation.

Thoughts?

 

[Cognisant]

Sounds good to me, mapping is a bitch and Lilith will be 30-40ft up most of the time anyway so you only need to consider ranged attacks and flying attackers and then if any dog-fighting takes place rather than go into the complicated business of what does and doesn't require a fly check why don't I just make an opposed fly check?

If I want to stay away from someone and they want to melee me and my check is two higher than theirs I succeed, if theirs is two higher than mine they succeed, if neither of us succeeds against the other by two or more we both move but the situation doesn't change, so if we start out of melee range the advantage is mine but if we start within range the advantage is theirs so it's fair.

 

[Jennywocky]

Considering Absurdity misses half of the other sessions, is waiting to hear back after multiple attempts a good idea?

(I'd much rather have him play, but not sure if hanging the group because he's not responding repeatedly to stuff is beneficial.)

 

[cheese]

Yeah, he's apparently de-adminned himself, his avatar is gone and his usertitle now says 'fuck you guys' in Latin. I hope he comes back, but I'm not sure if it'll be any time soon. Maybe he forgot about the game? I guess at the end of the day we're just a bunch of nerds on the internet, but it's still sort of strange to just disappear like that when we're expecting him to be around for the next few months.

We need him here to keep feeding us interesting links and joking about chamberpots...

 

[Cognisant]

Maybe someone hacked his account?

Btw are we playing this weekend?

 

[Hadoblado]

Okay sorry guys I've been way busy.

I can't do the first few time slots, I'm not ready. I thought since Abs wasn't responding that I had enough time to play around a little, since him taking so long implied a further organisational hurdle. I can get it finished tomorrow ready for Sunday at 10am my time, which is midnight between 2/5 and 3/5 UTC. Assuming everyone still has that time free?

Again, sorry for way late notice. My schedule is giving me shit.

 

[Cognisant]

I'm free.

Also I'm dying to show this to everyone, it's probably going on the list of things Cog's not allowed to do in a TTRPG.

Small Gravity Elemental as an Improved Familiar
I've got quotes from the developers saying Alchemists can take the Improved familiar feat, catch is just like with a normal familiar you don't have the original anymore so it's no longer a tumor familiar, which y'know makes sense.

Anyway Alchemists get the Mutagen ability and Bull's Strength as an Extract so they can buff a Gravity Elemental's Gravity Field (Telekinesis and Reverse Gravity, at will, limitless use) which for a longbow wielding Strix is just priceless.

As long as the familiar is close it can block anything (Ally Shield, valet archetype) thrown at her that requires an attack roll and as a Dex build she's got a great Reflex save, the elemental is literally immune to projectiles and spells, indeed not just immune it can catch projectiles and either throw them back or give them to her.

Anything that flies up to engage in melee is either going to get smacked down or grappled with telekinesis and if it's something that doesn't normally stay dead the elemental can Engulf and atomize it. Not to mention it can maintain Reverse Gravity as a standard action and fly upwards (with whoever failed their Reflex save) at 100ft per round then smack'em down with Hold.

At 11th level Lilith will have Duplicate Familiar as an Extract.

 

[Jennywocky]

Okay sorry guys I've been way busy. I can't do the first few time slots, I'm not ready. I thought since Abs wasn't responding that I had enough time to play around a little, since him taking so long implied a further organisational hurdle. I can get it finished tomorrow ready for Sunday at 10am my time, which is midnight between 2/5 and 3/5 UTC. Assuming everyone still has that time free?

Again, sorry for way late notice. My schedule is giving me shit.

Yeah, 10am your time is 8pm my time, Saturday night.
So I'm okay with that.

(and it's 5pm for Absurdity if he is still on West Coast and can play.)

I'm free.

Also I'm dying to show this to everyone, it's probably going on the list of things Cog's not allowed to do in a TTRPG.

ROFL! Is that an official "thing" now? AWESOME.

"Sorry folks, this is a Cog-Free RPG zone. Can't play that."

 

[Cognisant]

If there's two gravity elementals, the turn starts with one of them already 100ft up, they both use reverse gravity, you fail your first save and get carried 100ft up, now technically you get a second but you've got nothing to grab on to, so now the other one takes its turn and carries you up another 100ft, does momentum apply?

200ft in 3 seconds, 66.666ft/second, ~20.3m/s, so about another two seconds of upward motion before regular gravity (9.8m/s) cancels out the momentum, not accounting for drag, rather than calculate how far much further they've gone it would be easier to approximate that they have a full round looney-tunes moment at 200ft before falling to what will most likely be their death.

 

[Cognisant]

Creatures that fall take 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6.

I wonder what happens if gravity elementals accelerate your fall?

At terminal velocity you're falling 500ft per round (the minimum fall distance required to cast a spell) so that's 166.666ft/second plus an additional 66.666ft/second, divide 166.666 by twenty and we get 8.333, so another 8d6 which brings the damage to 28d6, or with a DC15 acrobatics check 26d6 and 1d6 nonlethal damage which really makes all the difference

That acrobatics DC should totally scale up, I mean if you've got a +40 modifier then you're not just good at jumping you're a supernaturally adept acrobat, you ought to have something to show for it.

ROFL! Is that an official "thing" now? AWESOME.

"Sorry folks, this is a Cog-Free RPG zone. Can't play that."

Mr Welch is my role model

 

[Jennywocky]

Do you have +40 modifier to your Acrobatics role? I have a level 9 rogue, that's what she does, and her Acrobatics is only +18.

(I could probably boost that to near 30 if I took all possible ranks + some magic gear, but +40 sounds rather crazy without supernatural and magic buffs coming out your wazoo.)

My pragmatic answer, though, is that I think most people just want to play a game, so if all those calculations can be automated to take no time to resolve, then make it as complicated as you'd like; otherwise, most people are happy with 1d6 / 10' of falling. And if you want to 'fudge' it, you could just say gravity accelerators would double that or something, and making a particular DC for Acrobatics will reduce it by a certain amount.

My rogue can fly now, so it's rather moot, but she was a roof runner variant, and if she had two walls within 10' of each other, she could fall extra distance without taking damage (kind of like she'd be parkouring down the height of the alley).

 

[Cognisant]

Do you have +40 modifier to your Acrobatics role? I have a level 9 rogue, that's what she does, and her Acrobatics is only +18.

No but a kitsune ninja could get there.

Things Mr. Welch can no longer in an RPG
1651. No teaching halflings how to fly.

Jump +10
Acrobatic Master +20
Dexterity +5
Kitsune Racial Bonus +2
Ranks & Class Skill Bonus +5

So yeah +42 at 2nd level and the aid of a wand or whatever.

+44 with Skill Focus

 

[Cognisant]

The thing is a wizard with a valet archtype familiar and the Escape Route feat could walk through a crowd of enemies like they weren't even there, while the supernaturally skilled acrobatic master has to roll checks just in case he rolls a 1 and therefore automatically fails.

That is such bullshit.

 

[Jennywocky]

Ah, I forgot about that Ki pool Ninja power where you can grab +20 for a round (I think monks or ninjas?). Is that up all the time, though?

My Cryptic/Thrallherd blessed by Echnidna and with her almost no-cost Chameleon power has a natural +34 Stealth, and once she goes Lich, it'll be natural +42 Stealth, all the time, without any real power expenditure. But that's pretty atypical for most skills for most characters.

---

Anyway, you're basically trying to break the system, looking at the extreme points of failure and success.

Also, what does the Wizard you describe have to give up, in order to do that? That's where I'd look at it: Yes, sure, whatever, but would a wizard choose to take that archetype and feat over something that might be more productive for him in the big scheme of things? Rolling a one is still only a 5% failure chance. That's not a lot different from a 0%.

Also, what's the Escape Route feat? That looks like an ally just can't be AoO'ed if he is walking through squares around you, if you BOTH happen to have the feat. I assume it's playing with the Valet Archetype familiar in some way...

 

[Cognisant]

Also, what's the Escape Route feat? That looks like an ally just can't be AoO'ed if he is walking through squares around you, if you BOTH happen to have the feat. I assume it's playing with the Valet Archetype familiar in some way...

Valet familiars get all your teamwork feats, thus if you familiar is in your square (as Escape Route explicitly states) you can't be targeted by AoO.

Also, what does the Wizard you describe have to give up, in order to do that?

One feat and Evasion for the familiar, but he gains other things in exchange, the valet archetype isn't meant to be any weaker than the vanilla familiar.

Anyway, you're basically trying to break the system, looking at the extreme points of failure and success.

In some sense isn't that the point of it all?
Sure there's roleplay and the character concept but at the end of the day some builds are simply superior to others and it's more fun playing an effective character rather than an ineffectual one. To that end being especially specialized just means you're more reliant upon your team and they can rely on you which makes the power imbalance less of a problem because it doesn't matter if the barbarian does the most damage, that's just his job and you have your job so as long as the DM presents scenarios in which everyone's individual skills are needed/useful you can appreciate you characters differences rather than resent them.

That's what I like about the alchemist class and making poisons, if Lilith is good at that she can share it, she can put poisons one everyone's weapons, give everyone alchemical items, she can support the party logistically and no matter how good she is at that nobody's going to resent me for it.

Now on the other hand as cool as a gravity elemental familiar might be I have to admit to myself that it's overpowered because it lets me turn practically every battle into an aerial battle of which Lilith is a specialist, and y'know how will the casters feel when my familiar is pumping out an empowered Reverse Gravity and Telekinesis every round? On top of what Lilith can already do herself.

 

[Jennywocky]

On phone, so I'm not typing much...but taking Valet means you lose other stuff. Losing Evasion isn't great either for a familiar, who can easily get killed....although not a devastating loss as it is for a Witch.

Also, it's just AoOs, and you really don't want either of you near combat anyway. regular attacks kill you just as dead. You burn a whole feat plus a familiar archetype, acrobatics guru will use that skill for MANY other things.

Anyway, if I were a baddie, I'd just target your familiar regardless. Even half damage on an 8d6 fireball could kill it.

 

[Cognisant]

Half damage on a 8d6 will kill a first level character too.

Also, it's just AoOs, and you really don't want either of you near combat anyway. regular attacks kill you just as dead. You burn a whole feat plus a familiar archetype, acrobatics guru will use that skill for MANY other things.

Well yes, jumping over stuff, but you don't need a huge acrobatics score to make typical acrobatics checks and casters usually invest in Dex anyway, plus said familiar could be giving you a +3 acrobatics bonus and Jump is an arcane spell.

It just seems like a ninja or rouge has to work so hard to be able to reliably dodge AoOs but for casters it's just something they could do but don't bother with because they can do better stuff, indeed at 5th caster level Jump goes up to +20 and last for 5min, whereas the ninja has to spend a Ki point every single time he wants to use Acrobatic Master which is a trick he wouldn't take anyway because you NEED the vanish one.

For a 5th level sorcerer one 1st level spell is well worth a 5min buff, heck a wizard could just make a scroll, while the ninja/rouge has to suffice with the 1st CL +10 Jump on a item he had to pay full price for.

 

[Jennywocky]

Yeah, I agree that many of the choices here are not between good and bad, but good and better. Most wizards blow feats on metamagic and crafting. To make the scroll,doesn't he have to have Create Scroll? Feat scarcity can be a problem; it's one incentive for fighters and humans.

 

[Hadoblado]

I see Cog's been neonstorming once more ^-^

Your gravitysomething link is broken to me :/

Reverse gravity is already obnoxiously powerful. It used to not allow any save at all, those were good times.
The reflex save is a downer but tbh it's not that much of a biggie. Any creature that can't fly will be using at least one hand to hold on -> not really great at fighting. If they fail the save it's a kill spell already, no need to deliberately end it, just wait until the spell expires. It doesn't seem to need further optimisation. I do like the sound of your elemental intercepting all threats in the air though.

Cog, I am... never doing this much math. Just saying.

The thing is a wizard with a valet archtype familiar and the Escape Route feat could walk through a crowd of enemies like they weren't even there, while the supernaturally skilled acrobatic master has to roll checks just in case he rolls a 1 and therefore automatically fails.

That is such bullshit.

There is a lesson to be learned here. Pathfinder addresses the overpotence of wizards some, but... they still bend reality to their will. This particular instance is not so bad because... as alluded to, the wizard may be able to do it better, but has very little reason to want to. Ninjas and rogues are rewarded for doing so, it matters not that wizards can technically do it better if they aren't rewarded for doing so.

Try 2e where knock is better than lockpicking, fly is better than move silently and climb, invisibility is better than hide. Two second levels and one third and you're better than any thief that ever lived and you assume the mantel so casually you've still got the room for fireballs and whatnot: power the thief hasn't the imagination to dream of.

Anyway back to things. Cog I don't mind you trying to break systems, I encourage it to a certain point. Don't make me do infinite math though plz, and don't focus on it to the extent that you're compromising roleplay or the fun of other players.

 

[Cognisant]

Lol don't worry I won't make you do lots of math, I can't guarantee I won't come up with more nutty schemes but if they involve physics based damage and whatnot I'll do the math and justify my results to you and of course you get final say in what those results actually are.

I still kinda want the small gravity elemental but we're obviously going to have to nerf it, a lot of improved familiars have fast healing, damage reduction and regeneration so it should have something like that other than spell immunity and lets say it can only catch as many projectiles a round as it's dexterity modifer allows and (it pains me to say it) no reverse gravity, it can still use Telekenisis on individuals but it can't fuck up entire groups of enemies at once, except by using Hold to merely immobilise them.

 

[Hadoblado]

How is the gravity elemental immune to spells?

Afaik it's immune to mass based spells, but losing evasion will make it very susceptible to AoE -> fireball bro.