INTPf Mafia #3: Do you even rift?

[Fukyo]

It's pretty naive to let the lurkers off the hook at this point in the game. How convenient for Sete to come out of his lurking just to vote.

 

[redbaron]

Stop posting.

Tallying votes now.

 

[redbaron]

Vote Count
​

Sinny (3) - Blarraun, Fukyo, Helvete <<- Lynch!
Fukyo (2) - Pmj, Sete
Pmj (1) - Sinny

Sinny was lynched, she was VANILLA TOWN!

​

 

[redbaron]

The town is unable to prevent themselves from being eliminated, Mafia Wins!


The Mafia team were:


Fukyo & Helvete


​

 

[Seteleechete]

GG, well I tried my last ditch effort but it seems every other town was afk... Why you afk town?

 

[Helvete]

hehe another mafia win hey?

 

[Helvete]

GG all!

Also, sorry sinny, I had to be active and tunnel you fairly hard as you started the day by basically pinning the mafia team and I couldn't let that happen...

 

[Reluctantly]

See this is why you always kill Helvete.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

I'd like to apologize to everyone who reads the Spec thread, both for my needlessly belligerent remarks and also for the random d*ck-themed bullshit we, as a group, spewed into the thread

(inb4 edit-queen Jenny goes and removes all the d*ck comments from her posts)

 

[Seteleechete]

vote Fukyo

Was trying to bait a last minute vote switch with mafia banking on me(and now apparently PMJ) being afk. If it was a Sinny + 1 team(Except PMJ) they could have switched to PMJ atm and won. If it was Sinny + PMJ, PMJ should have revoted for Sinny by now/kept his vote on Sinny.

I thought it was such a brilliant plan as well...(seeing as I had no leads, words weren't going to solve this).

 

[redbaron]

The Town
1. Pmj Vanilla Town, Defeated
2. Yellow Vanilla Town, Lynched Day 1
3. HadoBlado Town Tracker, Killed Night 2
4. Seteleechete Vanilla Town, Defeated
5. Sinny Vanilla Town, Lynched Day 3
6. Spacedog Town Doctor, Lynched Day 2
7. Blarraun Vanilla Town, Defeated

The Scum
Gopher Fukyo Mafia Goon, Alive
QuickTwist Helvete Mafia Goon, Alive

Feel free to talk in this thread now that it's over, all discussion can be made public.

 

[The Gopher]

SCUM TEAM I’M SO PROUD OF YOU! Particularly after I had to leave you in such a bad fashion. (When QT ended up leaving as well I thought it was over) Just for the record my arm was a real problem you can see that in the spectator chat and my QT. It’s calmed down now since it’s been 6 days but it still isn’t game posting quantities. You were right I was different however you used that feeling to pick up on the wrong thing. I did know I would post a list of reads as town however I physically couldn’t do it after “Using up my arm” explaining why I was leaving the game.

 

[redbaron]

Spectator Thread

Also if anyone wants me to NOT share their private QT, let me know in the next 24 hours otherwise I'll just share them all by default.

 

[Yellow]

I only apologize for like one or twelve things I said in the spectator thread.

 

[Sinny91]

GG all!

Also, sorry sinny, I had to be active and tunnel you fairly hard as you started the day by basically pinning the mafia team and I couldn't let that happen...

Haha, well that makes it seem worth it.

I knew I was close to the mark because of the constant tunnels on me today.

The worst part for me is that I suspected Gopher & QT from the very beginning.

 

[Seteleechete]

Someone link the spectator thread already.

 

[redbaron]

I made a post in the spectator thread that Shapelog said I should share in regards to Town playing effectively, so here it is:

I mean to me, Town players have a few criteria for being good:

- figure out who is scum for themselves, push their scum targets
- do and say things that help town figure out who is scum
- if they have a strong scum read, play to persuade the town that they're scum
- be cooperative, don't push your town-reads

Above all, Town should try to be consistent. If they STRONGLY suspect someone as being scum, they should vote them and then state clearly why they think they're scum. Then if they want to change their vote, they can explain how the reasons for them finding them scummy have changed, citing where and when they changed.

If they WEAKLY suspect someone as being scum, they should ask them questions. If they have a feeling or a weird post that they see as potential scummy, then they should prod and poke and see what they get. If they don't get much, they push a little harder. If the person starts to either lurk in response or says something like, "I'm busy, I'll be back in X time" and they don't actually come back in X time or they start breaking their promises, town should air their frustration and possibly declare intent to hammer. If they start seeing this as being really scummy in the context of the game: vote. Explain why. Show why that person was being scummy and what led you to that conclusion.

~

The problem Hadoblado and also others on this forum are having, is that they're not consistent. Hadoblado will vote for someone he thinks is Town as some kind of elaborate ruse to catch scum, while simultaneously deciding that he's not going to push his strongest scum-read because "META GAMEZ YO".

That's a crude and potentially offensive assessment, but it's true in essence imo. The result is this:

- Hado pushes a weak case on someone (because he doesn't really believe in it)
- Hado gets called out for weak case
- Hado then starts saying, "yes I KNOW it's weak but try THIS one!"
- Hado then pushes his strong case
- Hado's strong case isn't taken seriously, because he's just fucking confused everyone and made such a mess of his intentions and also undermined his own ability to actually find scum in the eyes of the rest of the Town, that the rest of the Town doesn't take him seriously.

Is that the Town's fault for not believing him or understanding his motives? To a degree I suppose.

But to me, the essential problem is that people never really establish a baseline or they don't act in accordance with what they say they're thinking.

"THIS PERSON IS VERY TOWNLIKE"

*proceeds to vote very townlike person*

"Fucking what?"

"Oh I was just tricking scum and seeing who would jump on my wagon!"

"Fucking what?"

~~~~~~~~~~

The problem being, no one has any incentive to believe you really were just tricking. The thing is, this kind of play confuses mafia, which is why people do it I think. They want to keep mafia confused. The problem is though, it confuses EVERYONE, not just mafia. Town, Mafia, Serial Killer, Spectators and everyone is confused, but that favours the mafia? Why?

Because the mafia have an inherent information advantage. They never have to guess who or what is town or mafia, so if people start playing in a confusing way - it's really easy to use that as lynchbait and not be suspected for it: because the person REALLY WAS genuinely fucking confusing people. So if they lynch them and say, "well fuck that was confusing my bad" - everyone goes, "yeah that was fucking confusing I agree" - bam, off the hook.

Also, if Town play this way, it rapes people's filters and is likely to get you investigated by a blue-role. Again: wasting Town effort and energy on frivolous hunts. Mafia having the ability to talk to each other is a huge boon too, since then multiple people can quickly disentangle any attempted, "cleverness" by a Town player and turn it against them (or just ignore them).

Tl;dr: elaborate tactics confuse everybody. Mafia have the least confused base-line and the most tools to make themselves un-confused. Stop trying to outsmart mafia, you can't. They know more than you. You beat Mafia with your genuine co-operation and natural ability to work things out and problem solve as a group. Nothing else matters except in gimmicky situations like LyLo when you're a blue role with guilty reads or something like that.

Play the game, not the gimmick.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Spectator Thread

Also if anyone wants me to NOT share their private QT, let me know in the next 24 hours otherwise I'll just share them all by default.

Someone link the spectator thread already.

yep yep yep

 

[The Gopher]

Someone link the spectator thread already.

Spectator Thread

Also if anyone wants me to NOT share their private QT, let me know in the next 24 hours otherwise I'll just share them all by default.

Also you have the go ahead to link my QT whenever. I don't want that day one interaction we had go to waste. Might need to check with Fukyo though if she posted anything.

 

[Seteleechete]

To be fair, with the lag I didn't see that post before I posted >.>

 

[Jennywocky]

I'd like to apologize to everyone who reads the Spec thread, both for my needlessly belligerent remarks and also for the random d*ck-themed bullshit we, as a group, spewed into the thread

(inb4 edit-queen Jenny goes and removes all the d*ck comments from her posts)

Hey, I am proud of all my dick-duck jokes, thank you very much!!

 

[QuickTwist]

Nice job taking over for me helvete.

 

[Seteleechete]

Oh btw, for anyone wondering about my lack of activity post day 1, it was simply me getting sick of playing this game/generally feeling bad. I get pretty apathetic about things/reclusive when such things happen. Probably should have switched out on day 2 but with 2 people already doing so I just kinda went along *shrug*.

 

[The Gopher]

Nice job taking over for me helvete.

Yeah imagine if Helvete took over for me and Fukyo took over for you. For some reason I don't imagine that working. Just a change in style I guess.

 

[Fukyo]

Well, this game was so incredibly stressful for me. I'm never playing again.


Some thoughts:

I was offended and surprised several people suggested I was being a bitch to Gopher. My need to clarify this was not a game tactic. Sorry Gopher!


I agree with the Shapelog's post about Hado's play. When I first got into the game, I didn't know his claim was legit and he immediately looked scummy to me.


Don't take this personally Sinny, but I thought your game was poor. If I had been town I would have still been on your case for the exact same reasons. You were way too selfish and aggressive as a town player, and your insults showed a grave lack of sportsmanship. I also don't think you should take people reading you as scum personally, all players are supposed to be scum hunting.

 

[The Gopher]

Don't worry Fukyo. I found that whole thing amusing. It is very stressful suddenly being told. "Hey you're a bad guy and Hado wants to kill you."

 

[Fukyo]

Also, I don't mind the private thingies released. The juiciest thing I said was calling Hado a shady fucker, but I think that's justified since he was like the second coming of THD.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Don't take this personally Sinny, but I thought your game was poor. If I had been town I would have still been on your case for the exact same reasons.

There's many many many posts in the spec thread of us all saying very similar things.

 

[Jennywocky]

After our rolicking spec thread, I expect any future spectators to tear me a new one for any mistakes i make in my future Town games. But hey, bring it on, it's just how it works....

We really didn't do much better in determine mafia than you guys did, although we narrowed it down when baron gave us an indirect clue.

 

[Hadoblado]

Yeah don't worry fuks, it honestly didn't even register.Yeah it can be a stressful game. You did pretty well considering I was slugging away at you for reasons you didn't have any control over. If you hadn't lashed out at all I would have taken that as you trying overly hard to control yourself and tunneled you 'til the end of the earth.

Also how have we completed three games without anyone making a gopher+tunnel joke? Are gophers not tunnelers? Also mole+tunnel jokes. Come on guys, it's almost as if none of you are even dads!

 

[Fukyo]

Yeah don't worry fuks, it honestly didn't even register.Yeah it can be a stressful game. You did pretty well considering I was slugging away at you for reasons you didn't have any control over. If you hadn't lashed out at all I would have taken that as you trying overly hard to control yourself and tunneled you 'til the end of the earth.

Also how have we completed three games without anyone making a gopher+tunnel joke? Are gophers not tunnelers? Also mole+tunnel jokes. Come on guys, it's almost as if none of you are even dads!

And now you're so casual, you fucking antichrist, I was so glad the magic wagon moved to Shapelog, so I could kill you.

Spoiler

I'll reply, was just waiting for the game to end.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Come on guys, it's almost as if none of you are even dads!

Thank god.

Besides, that joke feels like really low-hanging fruit.

 

[Sinny91]

My play can't have been that poor considering I survived till day three, and pinned the scum.

We would have survived had the other Town saw through the very obvious mafia wagon me me.

Like literally, who else was getting 'cased' today?

I had to keep responding to same lines of questioning time and time again.

I encouraged people to look else where but noo...

And FYI, I'm not the sort of person who has to lie about being drunk. I woke up with acute alcohol poisoning today. Sheesh, if you can't grasp the basics of my personality, I don't know how you expect to grasp the intricacies.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

My play can't have been that poor considering I survived till day three, and pinned the scum.

But you were entirely unable to convince anyone else of your scum reads and you had the vast majority of people (pretty much everyone in the spec thread was convinced you were mafia until RB started gently steering us in the correct direction) sure that you were scum.

That is poor play.

This isn't a game of individual survival and individual correctness. It's also a game of communication and cooperation, in which areas you came up short this game (granted you weren't the only one to come up short. Town lost, so by definition everyone on town came up short).

 

[Sinny91]

My QT
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/y77MkrGWDnpY

 

[The Gopher]

Now Fukyo has given permission my QT. Read til post 13 at least, I found it hilarious.

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/vqavCVzg2GCSg

 

[Seteleechete]

My QT is empty except for some game related questions. I usually keep my discourse in my head.

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/3vfSDfeMtLRuG

 

[The Gopher]

OOOOH MY MAN SEATTLE! That would be an interesting play. Obviously banned and cheating of course.... but an interesting play.

 

[Hadoblado]

@Sinny
Don't be offended. Out of everyone I think you're the only one who even thought about Helvete being scumma. I would never have got them, not in a million years.

You late game reads were good.

But survival =/= winning. It's just losing slow. A town who gets everything moving day one and dies to NK night one such as Yellow is more valuable than the majority of town that outlast them. Any lurker can last until end-game, that doesn't make them good town.

I'm not telling you this as someone who thinks they did any better btw. Hell I was on the block day one as a blue role which is an absolute failure. I then set the stage for our doctor and tracker to die in one night. I'm not trying to make you look or feel bad, I just think it's a mistake to ignore feedback when it's so consistent.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

From Sinny's QT:

The worst part for me is, if Yellow had of just put a disclaimer in her protests saying "I AM TOWN, DO SOMETHING!" I probably would have listened..

But when I read her "OMG, just do something!", my attitude was "why should I ?" ..

That there's some semantic fucking bullshit.

No one gives a flying fuck if someone says the sentence "I am town." It's implied by literally everyone always. A scum Yellow is as likely to say "I am town" as a town Yellow (I can't speak for Yellow, but I personally would probably be more likely to say it as mafia).

That's why you got dismissed for saying it yourself and trying to get others to say it. Because it's so fucking dumb and trivial and gets you literally nowhere.

(Edit: Also I do apologize if it feels like I'm singling you out or contributing to ganging up on you. It's just that the flaws in your play just seem so obvious and easily fixable that they almost need pointing out because you could honestly be a pretty effective player if you move past this kind of crap)

 

[The Gopher]

Yeah you read well late game but the mafia don't care if you know who they are they care if you'll die or not.

Also another thing to note, my scum game went down dramatically when I wasn't able to type in method acting style. (Like in my QT) I'm so glad I got away with lynching Yellow though. Yellow was utterly terrifying and I never want to join another game with her in it again out of fear of rolling scum again. She was so town (from a mafia's perspective) I have no idea how it happened.

Oh also I scripted the vote for the third person and the first half of day one lurking. Everything else was normal. Honestly as town I literally should vote for the third most scummy person. The most scummy person is never mafia unless it's obvious.

Also any advice on how to play better would be nice.

 

[Fukyo]

I reread Goph's notes and I am laughing so much at him talking to himself and telling rb not to break his immersion. I hope ppl can understand why I was calling his notes schizophrenic.

Man, I am way too excite. No sleep for me.

 

[Seteleechete]

OOOOH MY MAN SEATTLE! That would be an interesting play. Obviously banned and cheating of course.... but an interesting play.

I kinda just gave up on deducing who was scum on day 3 and started thinking of alternative solutions(thus narrowing down the list of suspects to likely pairs, asking about plays like that and committing to that last minute play I tried).

 

[Sinny91]

Yea but so far the feedback consists of "She put her survival first" "She was too angry"

Isn't that my personality, the angry survivalist? Where am I? On a typology forum? rofl.

We've got some sensors here right? Where are the details?

I absolutely blame the rest of Town for today's lynch, I found the scum bullshit and lynch on me to be so painfully obviously, there were zero other cases being made.. now how incredibly lazy is that on their part?

Yellow committed suicide, huh.. mm.

People were fixated on the cases made on me, which were extremely weak - if you know me at all - and completely ignored the cases I made in return. Which are short and sweet and they always will be, because I don't chat shit. (Apart from the obvious shit talk, which I admit on site)

I cased Fukyo in 3 lines or less, all points on point.

Not my fault some people can't see the wood from the trees.

 

[cheese]

LOL Gopher. Also that's exactly the kind of thing I'd do.

 

[Helvete]

Hado in fairness I manipulated the fukyo lynch onto shape based on your reads and also was trying to discredit your reads as much as subtly possible. I had a lot of fun as scum and wanted to play a fairly active role rather than the slightly more lurky games other mafia have played

 

[The Gopher]

Well mafia wants to survive town wants to win.

Honestly I read you as completely town. I mean sure I WAS mafia... You maybe should focus less on convincing other people that you're innocent and focus on convincing them other people are more scum. I straight up ignore a lot of things thrown at me cause it's easier to just throw bigger things back, but bigger factual differences in play. Focus more on the meat less on the vibe. Only you have the feeling.

If you spend the however many words you did defending yourself on arguing someone else was scum you probably would have picked up fukyo or at least made it close.

 

[Sinny91]

Well mafia wants to survive town wants to win.

Honestly I read you as completely town. I mean sure I WAS mafia... You maybe should focus less on convincing other people that you're innocent and focus on convincing them other people are more scum. I straight up ignore a lot of things thrown at me cause it's easier to just throw bigger things back, but bigger factual differences in play. Focus more on the meat less on the vibe. Only you have the feeling.

If you spend the however many words you did defending yourself on arguing someone else was scum you probably would have picked up fukyo or at least made it close.

Well this is where I struggle, because I genuinely usually only need a few sentences to communicate any point I'm trying to make.. I just can't spew out bullshit additional process where there were none.

The problem here, I think, is that I'm far too honest, even when I'm supposed to be being honest, I hate the fact that I have to feed people bullshit constantly to keep them abated.

But this applies to all walks off life, so I really shouldn't be surprised.

Also: Yea well, I was stuck between a rock and hard place with my defense. I defended myself, got accused of being scum.. Decided to stop defending myself, still got accused of being scum. But the scum team were after me, so what's a girl to do?

 

[PmjPmj]

Spectator Thread

Also if anyone wants me to NOT share their private QT, let me know in the next 24 hours otherwise I'll just share them all by default.

Post 18; RB: "PMJ is legit incapable of learning".

*camp* oh, you bitch.

Actually, I learned a lot from this game. What people don't seem to get is that I'm coming to this blind; I played some TWG games back when I was late teens / early twenties, and they were brutal. I don't mean to use this as an excuse: my play was shit, pure and simple - but I wasn't particularly aware of this at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I think I'm 'about right' to go forth and play properly, now. The spec thread has been fantastically insightful. I know where I messed up, and how to correct that.

So, thanks everyone.

I think I will play another game, but I'll do so on the basis that I contribute at least 2-3 (+) good posts per day, and people aren't too bothered if I'm not around in the early am etc. because of RL commitments.

Oh, and the best thing about this game? Heavily suspected QT, but it was more of a gut thing and so never gave it much thought. QT left the game and I didn't even bother to scrutinise Helvelvleletete, ffs.

Many fail. Such bad.

 

[PmjPmj]

Oh, and Sinny legit confused the shit out of me. Green; red; green; red; definitely r-;green; EWHESWHFASWJHF.

*bang*