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INTPf Mafia #3: Do you even rift?

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#1


9 Geology students go on a field-trip with their supervisor and camp overnight. However when they wake up in the morning, they find that their supervisor has is missing! Being the expert geologamists that you are, you deduce that there was a scuffle involving no less than three people by the edge of a large rift - and your expert detectamative skills have deduced that since your supervisor is missing, the other two must have pushed her in!

What's worse, the field-trip bus has a punctured tyre and being the pathetic city-dwelling dandies that you are, none of you know how to change a tyre! You now have a two-fold goal: find your supervisors murderer(s) and also: find your way back to civilization!

Game Status

Day 2

Player list
1. Pmj, Alive
2. Gopher Fukyo, Alive
3. Yellow Vanilla Town, Lynched Day 1
4. HadoBlado Town Tracker, Killed Night 2
5. Seteleechete, Alive
6. Sinny, Alive
7. Spacedog Town Doctor, Lynched Day 2
8. QuickTwist Helvete, Alive
9. Blarraunm Alive

Setup

7 Town, 2 mafia.

Utilizing Matrix6 setup.

Rules
- orange is my mod colour, don't use it for anything
- voting is compulsory and must be done in bold and purple - this is so as not to confuse any text with mod text. Voting is no longer orange
- lynching - the player with the most votes at end of day is lynched. There is no majority lynch. In the event of a tie, the result will be no-lynch
- day and night will be 48 and 24 hours respectively
- play to win - anyone not playing to win condition will receive a warning and potential modkill
- actions - for players with night actions, they'll be submitted via your personal QuickTopic if Town and the Mafia QuickTopic if Scum. PM's on this site won't count.
- animated gifs or videos - MUST be in spoilers, don't clutter the thread with them (not a foreseeable problem, just making sure)
- activity - you must make at least 2 posts with content every 24 hours. That's not a lot. If you don't do it in the first 24 hours, I'll prod you via PM and if you don't respond with 2 posts in the next 24 hours, you'll be modkilled and banned from (my) next game.
- gossiping - don't talk about the game outside the game, anywhere. Any time. Ever. If you do it, you're modkilled. Don't even hint at it. Last game actually had someone slip outside of game that their role (after being replaced) was town. It sucks for the game overall
- editing - you're not allowed to edit your posts in this thread. If you make a grave formatting error that you need fixed, notify me in-thread and I can fix it for you.
- have fun - attacks in the game aren't personal, they're part of the game. Remember that and don't take it too seriously. Also, no below the belt attacks - yes am aware that I did this in Game #1, but it's not conducive to people's continued enjoyment playing mafia on this site. With that in mind, don't do it.
- English is the only language to be spoken in this game (hi Gopher)

9/9 CONFIRMED - DAY 1 IS LIVE

 
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#2
DAY 1 ENDS IN ~48 HOURS, 30 MINUTES

HAVE FUN!
 
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#3
Right, well.. I've drawn Townie.

Is it as simple as two goons and 7 Vanilla.. Or are we kept in the dark regarding the power role options outlined in Matrix6?
 

QuickTwist

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#4
Right, well.. I've drawn Townie.

Is it as simple as two goons and 7 Vanilla.. Or are we kept in the dark regarding the power role options outlined in Matrix6?
There is a link to the setup in the OP. Why would you say 2 goons and 7 vanilla out of curiosity? There is a guaranteed TPR in the game. There is at least one based on the matrix 6 setup.
 

Yellow

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#5
The power roles will come out of either one column or one row out of the matrix. That means there will be at least one power role, but there may be as many as 3.

vote Sinny
 

QuickTwist

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#6
The power roles will come out of either one column or one row out of the matrix. That means there will be at least one power role, but there may be as many as 3.

vote Sinny
That was my next question to Sinny, which is why she thought there were 2 goons with no mention of the RB.
 
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#7
The power roles will come out of either one column or one row out of the matrix. That means there will be at least one power role, but there may be as many as 3.

vote Sinny

Fuck you.

Vote Yellow

So we do have power roles but they haven't been broadcast?

Is what i'm asking.
 

QuickTwist

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#8
Fuck you.

Vote Yellow

So we do have power roles but they haven't been broadcast?

Is what i'm asking.
I'll give my personal take on when to claim if you are PR.

1) you are likely to be lynched.

2) You can either clear a few Townies or have at least 1 guilty on someone (this applies more so for Cop, Tracker and sometimes Jailkeeper depending).

With Jailkeeper and Doc and BP it is debatable on whether to claim when there is no NK the previous night. With this occuring, its best to rely on what has happened in the thread such as if there are people who are cleared as being Town or confirmed people being Mafia.
 

QuickTwist

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#10
@Yellow, how serious is your vote on Sinny right now?
 
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#11
I'll give my personal take on when to claim if you are PR.

1) you are likely to be lynched.

2) You can either clear a few Townies or have at least 1 guilty on someone (this applies more so for Cop, Tracker and sometimes Jailkeeper depending).

With Jailkeeper and Doc and BP it is debatable on whether to claim when there is no NK the previous night. With this occuring, its best to rely on what has happened in the thread such as if there are people who are cleared as being Town or confirmed people being Mafia.
K.

Wasn't asking that.

What are your two roles?
 

Hadoblado

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#12
I'm not sure how important it is to answer that question.

Also...

Yay active townies :) <3

@Gopher, Sinny, Spacedog, Blar (to some extent)

Last game you were all town. Town lost -> learning experience. What lessons did you learn? What adjustments did you make that you'd like to apply to this game?

@Everyone
Is there anyone you feel comfortable reading? As in, that you think you can confirm town or scum given 1-2 days under the assumption they're reasonably active.

@Seteleechete, Blar, Yellow (though apparently Yellow needs no pep talk)
I'm going to oppose any lynch on you day one unless you're really blatantly scummy or lurk. The intention behind this amnesty is to give you room to breathe while you find your feet. So jump in, make a mess, try to be right even though you'll probably be wrong. The experienced players here are observing you and they know you're new. So long as you're having a go they should leave you alone too.
 

Hadoblado

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#13
I'm not sure how important it is to answer that question.
EBWOP
The question directed at Yellow about the seriousness of her vote on Sinny.

What are your two roles?
Someone is confused. It might be me. Only the people who received roles know their role. They get to deduce which lines on the matrix aren't being used, but they don't know for certain which line/column is being used, and thus can't answer your question (and shouldn't). Only RB knows which setup it is.
 
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#15
I'm not sure how important it is to answer that question.

Also...

Yay active townies :) <3

@Gopher, Sinny, Spacedog, Blar (to some extent)

Last game you were all town. Town lost -> learning experience. What lessons did you learn? What adjustments did you make that you'd like to apply to this game?

@Everyone
Is there anyone you feel comfortable reading? As in, that you think you can confirm town or scum given 1-2 days under the assumption they're reasonably active.

@Seteleechete, Blar, Yellow (though apparently Yellow needs no pep talk)
I'm going to oppose any lynch on you day one unless you're really blatantly scummy or lurk. The intention behind this amnesty is to give you room to breathe while you find your feet. So jump in, make a mess, try to be right even though you'll probably be wrong. The experienced players here are observing you and they know you're new. So long as you're having a go they should leave you alone too.
Are you Snuggles? I completely forgot, but now I guess it's coming back to me.

After having played mafia from a mafia perspective, I think I have a better understanding of how they might operate, respond and react.

From a Townie perspective, I have no qualms in harassing people until I get the answers/reactions that I want to help me determine allegiance & intent.
 
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#16
EBWOP
The question directed at Yellow about the seriousness of her vote on Sinny.
Well, I want the answer to that question to.

Someone is confused. It might be me. Only the people who received roles know their role. They get to deduce which lines on the matrix aren't being used, but they don't know for certain which line/column is being used, and thus can't answer your question (and shouldn't). Only RB knows which setup it is.
Gathered that by now :rolleyes:

I want Yellow and QT to deny their scumminess.
 

QuickTwist

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#17
K.

Wasn't asking that.

What are your two roles?
I won't be saying what potential role(s) I am for a while actually.

Not liking what you've been doing so far Sinny :(
 

QuickTwist

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#19
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#20
I won't be saying what potential role(s) I am for a while actually.

Not liking what you've been doing so far Sinny :(
Dropping the K's a bit rude isn't it?

You do that a lot.

What do you dislike?
 

QuickTwist

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#21
Dropping the K's a bit rude isn't it?

You do that a lot.

What do you dislike?
I don't like that you apparently knew nothing of the setup before posting in the game.

And I don't like that you told me to tell you what two roles I am.

We are still on the first page. Unless someone slips really badly, its prolly going to be one of the least informative pages in this game.
 

Hadoblado

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#22
@Spacedog, Gopher, QT

I actually don't know what the common perception is for this, but...

When people pointlessly reaffirm their townliness, what kind of sign is that? It seems so redundant to me, but people keep on doing it and I'm not sure why.

I can understand QT's.

I can't understand Sinny's

Right, well.. I've drawn Townie.
It's so pointless. Isn't it?
 
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#23
I don't like that you apparently knew nothing of the setup before posting in the game.

And I don't like that you told me to tell you what two roles I am.

We are still on the first page. Unless someone slips really badly, its prolly going to be one of the least informative pages in this game.
I was addressing you and Yellow.
 

QuickTwist

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#24
@Spacedog, Gopher, QT

I actually don't know what the common perception is for this, but...

When people pointlessly reaffirm their townliness, what kind of sign is that? It seems so redundant to me, but people keep on doing it and I'm not sure why.

I can understand QT's.

I can't understand Sinny's



It's so pointless. Isn't it?
Basically, yes, its pretty pointless. You want to establish that you are Town as both Town and Mafia. You can do it by saying "I'm Town" a million times, but there are more telling ways to go about it, such as Scum hunting and acting as a Townie would. But ofc the difference is that as Town, your main concern should be finding Scum and as Scum your main concern is making someone else look more Scummy than yourself.
 

Hadoblado

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#25
I can answer for them if you like with my secret mafia knowledge:
Yellow = VT
QT = VT
Sinny = VT
Hadoblado = VT
Gopher = VT
Set = VT
PMJ = VT
Spacedog = VT
Blar = VT

I know right? If I already know their roles, why am I even playing? It's hard being omniscient.

If god is omniscient and omnipotent, he knows everything and can do anything
But if god knows everything, he can't have a genuine game of mafia. Therefore an omniscient god can't do everything. Therefore god is not both omniscient and omnipotent.

Or something. :storks: fluffluffluffluff
 
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#26
@Spacedog, Gopher, QT

I actually don't know what the common perception is for this, but...

When people pointlessly reaffirm their townliness, what kind of sign is that? It seems so redundant to me, but people keep on doing it and I'm not sure why.

I can understand QT's.

I can't understand Sinny's

It's so pointless. Isn't it?
Actually, it's a fucking starting point.

I've made a declaration. Seemed to serve me well in my last Town game.
 

Hadoblado

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#27
I can answer for them if you like with my secret mafia knowledge:
Yellow = VT
QT = VT
Sinny = VT
Hadoblado = VT
Gopher = VT
Set = VT
PMJ = VT
Spacedog = VT
Blar = VT

I know right? If I already know their roles, why am I even playing? It's hard being omniscient.

If god is omniscient and omnipotent, he knows everything and can do anything
But if god knows everything, he can't have a genuine game of mafia. Therefore an omniscient god can't do everything. Therefore god is not both omniscient and omnipotent.

Or something. :storks: fluffluffluffluff
 

QuickTwist

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#28
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#29
I can answer for them if you like with my secret mafia knowledge:
Yellow = VT
QT = VT
Sinny = VT
Hadoblado = VT
Gopher = VT
Set = VT
PMJ = VT
Spacedog = VT
Blar = VT

I know right? If I already know their roles, why am I even playing? It's hard being omniscient.

If god is omniscient and omnipotent, he knows everything and can do anything
But if god knows everything, he can't have a genuine game of mafia. Therefore an omniscient god can't do everything. Therefore god is not both omniscient and omnipotent.

Or something. :storks: fluffluffluffluff
The idea, Mr Bladder.. Is that they answer for themselves. Or not, at their own discretion. My the fuck are you interfering with my line of questioning? I don't encroach on the questioning of others.. so stop fucking encroaching on me.
 

QuickTwist

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#31
Just a heads up, I'm going to be split between 4 games more or less so I prolly won't be super active. Just FYI.
 

Hadoblado

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#32
RB, you haven't made any ruling about what is allowed to be shared. Am I allowed to ask QT for evidence of the three other games he's currently playing in?
 

Hadoblado

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#33
RB can you change my name to Hadoblado in the OP plz? Just for clarity thanks.
 

Yellow

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#34
I voted Sinny because she was my best lead at the moment.

I think it's best to always have a vote on someone. Now, I figured this game would start out with RVS, only Sinny decided to make herself a less-than-random target.

Here's how I see it: our first priority is to hunt down mafia members. Our second is to encourage proper scumhunting. Saying "I've drawn townie" right out the gate is either some kind of WIFOM scum tactic, or it's lazy town.

Statistically, online mafia games favor scum because we lack the ability to read facial expressions. In a forum like this, we have the advantage of knowing each other, and possibly gleaning tells, but looking at previous games, scum has to do is play half-assed, and they win be default. Our best chance of winning is a mafia lynch on day 1.

Now, I know the easy counter-argument is that there's nothing to hunt when you're the first poster. But still why announce your supposed role? The follow-up OMGUS vote didn't help. Again, it's either scummy or lazy.

I won't pretend to know for sure that Sinny is scum. I'm not even sure it's beyond 50/50, but I think we need to use our votes, even if we switch them 3 times a day. If she gets her act together, I'll remove the vote from her. If she keeps throwing out scummy behavior, I'll leave it on (obviously, I have to sleep at some point, and I work, so there may be 8-12 hour delays). Either way, scummy or lazy, we all benefit from applying a little pressure on her. She'll either confirm herself town when she shapes up, or she'll confirm herself scum by withdrawing from attention or making a slip/throwing an empty fit.

Also, before anyone asks, the purpose of having a vote on someone at all times is that you're contributing better in a multi-time-zone game. If I go to bed and she keeps throwing scum signs, well, you can all toss on the votes, and I'll help lynch a potential scum in my absence. If not, it'll just be a harmless lone vote when I come back tomorrow, which is no more dangerous than a nonvote. So really, always-on voting is a good idea day 1 (obviously, things change as our town-to-mafia ratios do).

There, a wall of text on page 1.

P.S. Without post-posting-editing, you'll all find how shitty my writing can really be.:phear:
 
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#35
Now, I know the easy counter-argument is that there's nothing to hunt when you're the first poster. But still why announce your supposed role? The follow-up OMGUS vote didn't help. Again, it's either scummy or lazy.

Umm, out of curiosity, what would you do with post number 1?
 

Yellow

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#36
Jesus Christ, that post was a mess, and I tried to clean it up, too.

tl;dr
-my vote on Sinny isn't crazy certain, but I'm happy leaving it there for now
-I don't think lazy townliness is much better than scumminess
-day 1 voting is good, and helps with our timezone issue
 

Yellow

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#38
Actually, it's a fucking starting point.

I've made a declaration. Seemed to serve me well in my last Town game.
I don't like this either. Still trying to say you're town by saying you're town. If you're town, then your actions will reflect that. You don't need to repeat "I'm town" over and over. It looks scummy, it's distracting, and it's not helpful.
 
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#39
I don't like this either. Still trying to say you're town by saying you're town. If you're town, then your actions will reflect that. You don't need to repeat "I'm town" over and over. It looks scummy, it's distracting, and it's not helpful.
I was explaining my method.
 
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#40
@Also Yellow, will you be taking leave soon, or will you be online for sometime from now?
 
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#41
It's really up to QT's discretion if he wants to share, but I'd prefer we just keep it limited to the games here on INTPf. By all means you can plunge QT's filter in other games for your own meta-reads, but I don't want to be linking games or evidence from other games. Investigating other players via their playstyles elsewhere is fine, citing evidence is not.

Short answer: no.
 

Hadoblado

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#42
Pffft there's plenty to go off on page one. People are so worried about their own feelings of helplessness that they don't realise just how much can be done from evidence gleaned page one day one. For one, you can have people take stands.

- From now on, if Yellow refuses to vote, we know they have a reason for it because it goes against their stated intention.
- From now on, if Yellow makes pointless statements about themselves being town, we know they've got a reason for it because it goes against their stated position.
- From now on, if I go and try to enact a lynch on any of the new players day one without a stated reason, you know I'm up to something because it goes against my stated intentions.

People that commit themselves to particular courses are doing town a favour. Why? Because if they're mafia, they're volunteering to disarm themselves. Scum like options. If you get someone else to commit to something, you're also doing town a favour.

Even by attacking Sinny for her strange role take, QT has committed himself. Now if he lets someone else go when they exhibit similar behaviour, we know that he is either not paying attention (so we bring it to his attention), or that somewhere along the line he had a motive for his action/inaction. We then line up all the reasons he could be active/inactive given the circumstances, and if there aren't any answer that make sense we've caught a scummer.

I know I'm outlining reasoning here a bit too transparently. This isn't hunting scum. But what I'm trying to do is communicate just how useful it is to be doing stuff day one page one. Everything adds up. So long as we don't turn this into a shitpost fest (again, for last game, I'm sorry :D), it's to town's advantage to make the most of this time. The more active we are now the more information we have, and information is a resource that allows us to narrow down options.

So far I'm happy with the level of contribution from basically everyone that's posted thus far. Particularly Yellow, who's having her first game and seems to be on track to kick ass. As we talk more, information will stack up, and town will have the ammunition to back more committal scum-hunting.

Thanks RB :)
 

Hadoblado

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#43
Wait just remembered Yellow mentioned playing another game off-site.

@Yellow
How is the other game going now? Have you learned anything you would apply here?
 

QuickTwist

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#44
Pffft there's plenty to go off on page one. People are so worried about their own feelings of helplessness that they don't realise just how much can be done from evidence gleaned page one day one. For one, you can have people take stands.

- From now on, if Yellow refuses to vote, we know they have a reason for it because it goes against their stated intention.
- From now on, if Yellow makes pointless statements about themselves being town, we know they've got a reason for it because it goes against their stated position.
- From now on, if I go and try to enact a lynch on any of the new players day one without a stated reason, you know I'm up to something because it goes against my stated intentions.

People that commit themselves to particular courses are doing town a favour. Why? Because if they're mafia, they're volunteering to disarm themselves. Scum like options. If you get someone else to commit to something, you're also doing town a favour.

Even by attacking Sinny for her strange role take, QT has committed himself. Now if he lets someone else go when they exhibit similar behaviour, we know that he is either not paying attention (so we bring it to his attention), or that somewhere along the line he had a motive for his action/inaction. We then line up all the reasons he could be active/inactive given the circumstances, and if there aren't any answer that make sense we've caught a scummer.

I know I'm outlining reasoning here a bit too transparently. This isn't hunting scum. But what I'm trying to do is communicate just how useful it is to be doing stuff day one page one. Everything adds up. So long as we don't turn this into a shitpost fest (again, for last game, I'm sorry :D), it's to town's advantage to make the most of this time. The more active we are now the more information we have, and information is a resource that allows us to narrow down options.

So far I'm happy with the level of contribution from basically everyone that's posted thus far. Particularly Yellow, who's having her first game and seems to be on track to kick ass. As we talk more, information will stack up, and town will have the ammunition to back more committal scum-hunting.

Thanks RB :)
This works if people play rationally, but some people do not. I actually am someone who makes a lot of contradictions in my play as Town. I can very well point you to many games where I have either fallen under heavy suspicion or outright lynched because people thought I was making contradictions.. This game is more about reading the player and what characteristics they have and how that makes them look Town or Scum rather than lining up everything so logically. In a perfect world where people never contradict themselves, you would be absolutely right, but I know based on my own way of playing that people do not always act logically.

Often times for me, it is more so that I just have difficulty explaining how I got from point A to point B in a way that makes sense to people. I have MY reasoning for it that I can't always articulate and this is when people find me suspicious and wrongly so. Granted, I am getting better at this, but it is still something that I struggle with in both my Town and Scum game.

I will show that I can very well get myself lynched for making contradictions:

See this game here:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=61890

this is a game that I played objectively terrible and was a game when I was new to mafia on MS.

I can link many more games where this took place, but this gives you an idea.
 

Yellow

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#46
@Sinny, this is probably my last post tonight, as it's nearing 11pm for me.

Wait just remembered Yellow mentioned playing another game off-site.

@Yellow
How is the other game going now? Have you learned anything you would apply here?
It's still going. I think I've learned a lot. We're like a week in and halfway through day 1 though, so I'm still in uncharted waters here. Either way, it's fun :D

And please note that my always-voting theory is really only a solid thing day one. Obviously, if we're in a "it takes 3 to lynch" situation and there's only 5 of us, I'm not going to let a vote sit there and disappear for 8 hours unless I'm dead certain.

Finally, I want to reiterate that I'm not certain that Sinny's scum. I'm just most comfortable leaving my vote on her for the/my night. Since there are at least 7 townsfolk this round, I don't believe she'll get 5 votes on her between now and tomorrow without more substantial evidence of scumminess.
 
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#47


Vote Count:


Sinny (2) - Hadoblado, Yellow
Yellow (1) - Sinny91
Not voting - Pmj, Seteleechete, Gopher, QuickTwist, Blarraun, Shapelog

Day 1 Ends in ~1 Day, 20 Hours, 30 Minutes

 
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#48
@Gopher, Sinny, Spacedog, Blar (to some extent)

Last game you were all town. Town lost -> learning experience. What lessons did you learn? What adjustments did you make that you'd like to apply to this game?

@Everyone
Is there anyone you feel comfortable reading? As in, that you think you can confirm town or scum given 1-2 days under the assumption they're reasonably active.
Yay for fixed lynches! Specifically ones that will get my sleeping schedule sorted.

Well I've learnt that burning out day one and a half is awful and means town loses by default since nobody feels like playing. I've also learned that you're weird and been reminded about a secret strat for the day one lynch that only works if I don't tell anyone.

So I'm going to try and cut my posting down by half at least, maybe focus on longer organized content posts with less fluff. In fact I've just woken up so I'm going to physically remove myself from the computer and eat/do normal stuff first.
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
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#49
When you come back:

To be clear, you think that that's good for people who overpost right? You, maybe me, possibly others if their style turns out to be overly-prolific. You're not advocating that everyone cuts their activity right? As in, nobody can point to your post and say "see here? gopher told me to do nothing".

PMJ, what do you think of Gopher's decision to opt out of posting?

Blarraun, what do you think about QT setting himself up so that he can't have logic applied to him?

Spacedog, what do you think of Yellow's aggression that she displays while also explicitly soft-balling it by reiterating her lack of certainty?

Seteleechete, what do you think about the fact that all I've done is sit here directing traffic, without really pointing any fingers?
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
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#50
@QT
I'm not saying that you should provide links to the other three games you're playing right now. I am explicitly not asking for them. Nobody can say I'm doing different.

But if you were to arrive at the conclusion that voluntarily providing those games of your own volition would make it easier on town's overworked collective amygdala, I wouldn't hold it against you.
 
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