INTP and ESFJ? Best match for the INTP?

[Taniwha]

I'm interested to see what you guys think.

Is this the ideal match up for an INTP?
Is there anyone here that is currently involved or was in a relationship with an ESFJ?
Pros and cons?
ESFJ vs ENFJ, which would be your personal pick, or which do you think out of the 16 types would be the best match for the INTP and why? (poll included).


​

 

[BitRogue]

ESFJs seem a bit shallow to me, and they do not do enough abstract thinking to engage me in in any serious conversation.

Interestingly enough, I dated an ENFJ many years ago. At first it was great, but after a while I came to the realization that I wasn't getting my recommended daily dose of intellectual nourishment and the relationship turned stale. Took a year and a half to get there but the relationship was draining for me and I retreated quite far into myself. I think she blamed herself for that, and at the time I didn't know anything about MB typing to realize that it was actually a deficiency on my side. I think she was a great girl, just not suited for me. Still, we had good times. This was my situation, of course, and things might be different for others in the same pairing.

I voted ENTP because I am instantly aware of an invisible connection when I meet a girl of this type. It is so uncanny but we just click from the very first conversation. But I also get the same thing to lesser degrees with all girls sharing the same 'NT' characteristics.

 

[LPolaright]

My girlfriend is an ISFP and we've been together for 3 years now, we seem to have a good relationship but a lot of it based on "we will agree to disagree", her F really bothers me sometimes because she seems to be incapable of doing rational stuff and It's impossible to teach her something because she wants it literal and not figurative. So if I was to meet anyone else who will be an ISFP i'd probably won't like his decisions and I would avoid teaching him something complicated but all other interactions seem to be good - deep conversations are still there.

I had a friend that was an INTP once, but he was too "social" for me to actually be a best friend. He belonged to a group of friends that was pretty closed to me - but his thinking was very similar to mine and he liked theories a lot. We used to play "blind" chess on lessons all the time. I would assume the girl version of him would be awesome (mental wise, not physical - this would be disgusting if it was physical as well).

INFP was horrible experience for me. She believed in ghosts, tarot cards, auras and very fanatic sometimes. I had great debates with her but it ended quickly with her saying "you cannot and will not change my mind and I prefer not to discuss it any longer" - realizing we had nothing else to talk about. Although I'm currently talking with an INFP over the MSN and he is quite nice, I don't know how I met that girl and why she made such an awful impression - So on a second thought INFP are quite nice if they are not very fanatic.

I have a ENTJ (or an INTJ, not sure) friend that is extremely naive - versioning him as a girl would have very compelling results (again not in a physical sense, that would be disgusting).

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I'm interested to see what you guys think.

Is this the ideal match up for an INTP?
Is there anyone here that is currently involved or was in a relationship with an ESFJ?
Pros and cons?
ESFJ vs ENFJ, which would be your personal pick, or which do you think out of the 16 types would be the best match for the INTP and why? (poll included).


​

Is this the ideal match up for an INTP? No.
Is there anyone here that is currently involved or was in a relationship with an ESFJ? No, but I had one really close friend, one parent, one grandparent and some other family members.

Pros? They are the only type to still cook us food even though we mooch like nobody's business.

Cons? No care for attending to personal needs, they are surface fixers. They are just looking for that smile, they don't care or are incapable of knowing your inner problems. They look down on you and try to give you care as if you're in need when we have a strong need to be independent, this is irritating. Difference in expectations of communication makes for inevitable quarrels, IP suppresses irritation to keep the peace but suffers from stress. EJ thinks of you as someone of a lower class. There is no stimulation in conversation, we have two different perspectives in life, one wants to be happy and be jovial the other wants to be serious and witty. The biggest problem is in the difference in expectations of feelings. ESFJs are looking for stimulation from an unrestricted release of personal opinions. INTPs are looking for stimulation from a cherished bond.

ESFJ vs ENFJ, which would be your personal pick, or which do you think out of the 16 types would be the best match for the INTP and why? Both piss me off to no end, for a relationship in the long term I'd choose one of the following:
ESFP, ISFJ, ESTP, ENFP, INFP
In that order.

To this day, no, I don't think I've ever been in a relationship. Once with an ESFP we became really close, but it was so laid back that I couldn't tell if we were involved or not. I notedly became more confident. ESTPs get my attention but the difference in expectations of feelings, keep me at bay. ENFPs also interest me, but there are differences in goals, the communication suffers from it. With ISFJs, guards can be let down, but still there are different rhythms.

 

[Methuselah]

Oh hell no. Please shoot me before I get that desperate.

I'm with an INFP and it's pretty sweet. But me and our circle of NT friends have worked on him for five years, and he thinks much more rationally than he used to.

 

[Words]

Where is truth from?

Not the person.
Not the group.

..The object.

 

[Wizardry]

Where is truth from?

Not the person.
Not the group.

..The object.

Nice, you have a way with words.

 

[The Gopher]

Nice, you have a way with words.

just try and tell me that wasn't intentional.

 

[walfin]

ESFJ v ENFJ? ENFJ definitely.

I cannot see how a relationship can work out well with an ESFJ. Sure you could say that it's a stereotype but INTP+ESFJ intuitively seems like it is very very unlikely to produce a good union. So many problems, and not even the same sense of humour.

But I am with an ENFJ, and there are some difficulties too.

just try and tell me that wasn't intentional.

It was word wizardry!

 

[PapyrusAirplanes]

Between an ENFJ and an ESFJ, the ENFJ would definitely win.

ESFJ:
I have a (self-proclaimed) ESFJ "best friend" who was originally very sweet, fun and amusing. I thought she enjoyed sarcasm, silliness and the like. But as time went on, she became manipulative, overemotional and overbearing, and it turned out that she actually hated sarcasm and all of her sarcastic replies were meant to be truly mean (and I'm sure it didn't help that I laughed whenever she said something I assumed was sarcastic). She took everything I said very literally; and even when I said I could never marry her (for compatibility reasons AND because we're both female), she became terribly offended. I had to explain to her that we are not a couple and we each need to have our individual lives. She locked herself in the bathroom and cried.

ENFJ:
All the ENFJs I've met have been wonderful. For some reason, they're less clingy and less easily offended than their S counterparts--probably because they can take things figuratively instead of literally. They have great senses of humor. One of my ENFJ friends and I are verbal twins; we say the same things the same way at the same time, and it's really hilarious. They're very open--sometimes too open--but not in an obnoxious way. They care, but they're not overbearing. And I know they have their issues, but it doesn't seem like anything compared to ESFJs.

As for the best match for the INTP...
... I've found ISTJs to be pretty amazing. A lot of people think they're boring and uptight, but I've grown up around them and have found them to be anything but. They're not overly social and they don't get offended easily, but they'll notice the details that Ns miss and keep things tidy. They also tend to be uber sarcastic. You have to get to know them and move past the shell, but I think it's one of those relationships that gets better with time rather than worse.

Also good may be... ISTP, INFP, ISFP, INTJ (though they can be a little weird *laugh*), ENTP.

 

[Fukyo]

As for the leading option in the poll...

Hmm, see, this is the main problem I have with INTPs. It isn't safe to come to them for emotional support when I need them the most. If I can't tell them about my feelings without running the risk that they will make things worse, what is the point of even having a relationship? I want someone I can nurture, who will nurture me back, who trusts me with his deepest feelings and knows how to deal with mine. I think without that, a relationship would seem empty and meaningless. I mean, that is pretty much the only thing I need from a romantic partner. Everything else is icing. ...and it seems to be the thing INTPs are worst at.

They always attract me because they seem deep enough and intelligent enough to understand me. I always assume that anyone that rational would be great at avoiding the usual mistakes that can ruin a relationship, but their knowledge only extends to trivial areas and never touches the core of what I need in order to be content. Also, it seems that there is very little I can provide that they would need. The things I most want to offer a partner, that I most want to be cherished for, are things the average INTP would not consider important or valuable. I would feel as though my needs were being neglected and my greatest skills were being wasted.

Instead of trying to empathize, they are more likely to dissect us in painful ways, and when we are upset, their form of help tends to be accusing us of doing things wrong. They seem perpetually argumentative and usually tend to make us defend, justify, and explain all of our reasons for our feelings and values, which are often personal, may have taken years to develop, and may have required many tangled paths for us to find. Each thing we care about is tied into everything else, so that the pieces all fit together a certain way, and trying to explain why we care would require telling someone how it relates to every other thing we have ever cared about. It is usually impossible, even though we do understand why, internally. We have it all present inside, all at once, like a web where each strand is supported by the surrounding strands.

The problem with having to explain ourselves in order to be taken seriously is that language happens in a line, confined by the fact that time is a narrow thing that doesn't allow for words to be spoken simultaneously in layers. We may never be able to express the directions our minds move, so most of us resort to art, music, or abstract poetry in order to make up for this limitation. We also tend to use a lot of symbolism, since the things we are really wanting to explain are essences that don't have words. They are combinations of factors that must all be present a certain way in order for that essence to exist, and we look for other similar situations in which those factors are also present, to clarify. If situation 'A' has this quality, and situation 'B' also has this quality, even while all of these other things are different, then through this description of 'B' you should understand what I am trying to tell you about 'A,' but it doesn't usually work that way when talking to an INTP. INTPs tend to find lots of tangential reasons why B isn't really like A, and they miss the point. We know that B isn't really the same thing as A. We just don't have any better way of getting to the core of the thing we mean, which is the common thread that relates the two, but which is too abstract to define.

I would not recommend an INTP/INFP relationship. I've done that too many times. I always think, "This one will be the exception, because he seems balanced. With love, we can work through anything," but I am always mistaken.

 

[Moocow]

I can't believe no one else voted ISFJ yet. They share the same two function pairs with us. If you can get over the whole "I NEED INTELLECTUAL STIMULATION" arrogance and get to know one, you might realize how much they have to offer because the things they do best directly nurture your weak functions... the ones that make you unhappy. In the same way, your strengths can help them if you can learn how to exhibit them without being pompous as fuck.

If all you want is intellectual stimulation, well you can find it anywhere because it has to come from yourself. You have to be the one to ask the questions. Finding a girlfriend isn't like finding a book or something that you just leech information from all day and then close when you feel like it.

You'll get your intellectual stimulation from an ISFJ, it just comes in a form you probably won't expect (but in my opinion, dearly need): practical application and experience.

Otherwise you could just have an e-romance through personal messages with other INTPs, if that's what you're into.


Also I really think INFPs are a terrible idea for INTPs. The two are fine on an easy going friendly level, but as soon as you get close it's nothing but frustration. No one tells me things like "You need to think less!!!" more than INFPs.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I can't believe no one else voted ISFJ yet. They share the same two function pairs with us.

I listed ISFJ in my choices. Regardless of what functions they have, they are pretty earthy enough to keep me grounded.

 

[MacGuffin]

One of the smartest woman I ever met was ISFJ. She didn't fit the stereotype at all, funny and witty and profane. She could hang intellectually quite well, and excelled in the areas of interpersonal dynamics and relationships; able to dissect them as well as any INTP could of a system.

 

[Wish]

I can't believe no one else voted ISFJ yet. They share the same two function pairs with us. If you can get over the whole "I NEED INTELLECTUAL STIMULATION" arrogance and get to know one, you might realize how much they have to offer because the things they do best directly nurture your weak functions... the ones that make you unhappy. In the same way, your strengths can help them if you can learn how to exhibit them without being pompous as fuck.

If all you want is intellectual stimulation, well you can find it anywhere because it has to come from yourself. You have to be the one to ask the questions. Finding a girlfriend isn't like finding a book or something that you just leech information from all day and then close when you feel like it.

You'll get your intellectual stimulation from an ISFJ, it just comes in a form you probably won't expect (but in my opinion, dearly need): practical application and experience.

Otherwise you could just have an e-romance through personal messages with other INTPs, if that's what you're into.


Also I really think INFPs are a terrible idea for INTPs. The two are fine on an easy going friendly level, but as soon as you get close it's nothing but frustration. No one tells me things like "You need to think less!!!" more than INFPs.

I don't understand your definition of intellectual stimulation or how it is an arrogant desire. The very fact that our top two functions are Ti-Ne means that intellectual stimulation is essential for our proper function. While it is true that this stimulation comes from ourselves, generally, we still need it to be validated and reciprocated by the outside world so we can get some kind of measure of our own sanity - two things the ISFJ is not usually willing to or able to do. It's actually a pretty alienating feeling.

Either way, this is all situational of course :P

I have a hunch, though, that you are mostly speaking from a personal experience and your frustration with yourself and how you handled it, and thus, how you could have handled it differently.

 

[Moocow]

I don't understand your definition of intellectual stimulation or how it is an arrogant desire. The very fact that our top two functions are Ti-Ne means that intellectual stimulation is essential for our proper function. While it is true that this stimulation comes from ourselves, generally, we still need it to be validated and reciprocated by the outside world so we can get some kind of measure of our own sanity - two things the ISFJ is not usually willing to or able to do. It's actually a pretty alienating feeling.

Either way, this is all situational of course :P

I have a hunch, though, that you are mostly speaking from a personal experience and your frustration with yourself and how you handled it, and thus, how you could have handled it differently.

Not completely, I've handled everything with my ISFJ quite well over the years. This intellectual stimulation arrogance I'm talking about is a narrow perspective that you need a certain type of person with a certain intellectual capacity to fulfill your needs. All I'm saying is that you can find intellectual stimulation in just about anything if you know how to look for it. You can bring out an intellectual capacity in people that they normally don't expose.

Also I completely disagree that ISFJs can't validate us. I'm trying to say that whether or not they INITIALLY agree, they need what we have, and vice versa. My girlfriend is the only person I know who has completely implemented even the most intensely abstract ideas from our conversations into her art, her education, her family and other relationships, and our relationship, effectively putting them to the test.. and often coming out with good results.

 

[Ermine]

Not completely, I've handled everything with my ISFJ quite well over the years. This intellectual stimulation arrogance I'm talking about is a narrow perspective that you need a certain type of person with a certain intellectual capacity to fulfill your needs. All I'm saying is that you can find intellectual stimulation in just about anything if you know how to look for it. You can bring out an intellectual capacity in people that they normally don't expose.

Also I completely disagree that ISFJs can't validate us. I'm trying to say that whether or not they INITIALLY agree, they need what we have, and vice versa. My girlfriend is the only person I know who has completely implemented even the most intensely abstract ideas from our conversations into her art, her education, her family and other relationships, and our relationship, effectively putting them to the test.. and often coming out with good results.

I totally agree with the ISFJ suggestion, though I've only gotten to know female ISFJs very well. We get along well since we're essentially 2 sides of the same coin (having the same functions in a different order). Also, each of the several ISFJs I know are very smart without being pretentious, bookworms, hardworking, down to earth, more socially skilled than me, and tolerate my crazy ideas just so long as I explain the connections.

I highly admire all of these traits, and would definitely want these traits in a potential SO.

 

[BitRogue]

I'm not sure that some of the people here on on the right track with regards to desiring intellectual conversation. All types are capable of achieving highly intellectual discussions, although I have to say that SJs, STs and NTs are usually more consistent at this than most. There are many of them at my work and I've spent time analyzing their associated typing behaviour. Also, both my sister and mother are ISxP and I think they're really great people, but I was never close to them although we get along OK. But the one thing I've discovered which set N types apart from the S types is that you will never hear them volunteer a phrase like 'Imagine if ...' . S types learn a huge amount of facts, and they love to have great intellectual discussions based around those facts. But they quickly annoy me because that is the extent of their intellectualism. They can't take those facts and conceptualize them. It will always ever be a discussion about 'what is' and not 'what could be' with an ISTJ and other S types.

Now I'm pretty easy going and get on well with all types in congenial circumstances. I have raging intelligent discussions with one of the ESTJs at work and I get really annoyed with him because he can't see further than his own reality. The world is all just one big encyclopaedia to him. As intellectual as he can be, he is just plain boring and self centred to me. Also, one of my ex's was an ISTJ. She was really nice and I went out with her and broke up with her 4 times over a period of 3 years. The breakup was always the same, I went cold on her, I retreated into my shell and became uncommunicative because I struggled to find good conversation with her.

So no, I don't think I will ever be seriously interested in any girl containing an 'S' in her type ever again. Relationships with them tend to force me into my shell. I just want to be alone more and more. The thing is, I have a huge imagination. I love it when it runs wild. And I love finding people who can connect to it. Finding a girl with that kind of intellectual insight is a challenge to me, but seriously, its worth the wait. I'm prepared to be patient for the right one. Not the perfect one, just the right one.

So, I'm happy for all of you who have found your undying love in the arms of ISTJs, but from my perspective, I'm kinda struggling to see how they can really fulfill those Ti-Ne needs. Not an arrogant requirement at all. Its survival. Unless you're not really INTP.

 

[indigofireflies]

INFP. Simply based on my relationship so far -- perhaps a narrow mindset, but six months and counting and it's working well. He helps me to stop completely over-analyzing situations/life, and I help him to consider more logical approaches to situations.

 

[Taniwha]

I found this interesting article which seems that share the same logic as the pattern of this thread;
http://www.lovetype.com/intptips.html

Here's another from the same site but for the ESFJ;
http://www.lovetype.com/esfjtips.html

I knew that there was something drastically wrong with Keirsey's theory.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I found this interesting article which seems that share the same logic as the pattern of this thread;
http://www.lovetype.com/intptips.html

Here's another from the same site but for the ESFJ;
http://www.lovetype.com/esfjtips.html

I knew that there was something drastically wrong with Keirsey's theory.

This is to be taken with a grain of salt. It's only comparing functions and typical interests, not traits, tendencies or irritations.

 

[Taniwha]

This is to be taken with a grain of salt. It's only comparing functions and typical interests, not traits, tendencies or irritations.

Interesting...

But I do think that it brought up some interesting points.
I just downloaded the book, so I'm a look through it at the moment. Here it is if anyone is interested.

Lovetypes (here's the link)

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

From my experience, I wouldn't exactly recommend ESFJ. The girl of mention could be supplementary and wasn't a terrible conversationalist, but when it really came down to entering my mental territory, it didn't work out so well.
(Just noticed that could sound selfish, but as much as you can give to someone else in a relationship, you do eventually get on the receiving end of the attention.)

For me, dating an ESFJ or ISFJ is like dating your mother. (Oddly enough, my mother is an ISFJ.)

I do like her in many ways individually though.

The girl I'm with now is an INFJ and, by far, the best I've ever been with. Met at the end of summer. She is incredibly complementary; I've had zero issues with her and we've been dating for a few months now.
I don't think I deserve her to be quite honest....

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I had a chance with an INFJ; she was too intense and quiet though. Maybe if the relationship grew out of a friendship... Otherwise, not for me.

She revealed that she basically stalked me, in a conversation, once. My reaction ->

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

I had a chance with an INFJ; she was too intense and quiet though. Maybe if the relationship grew out of a friendship... Otherwise, not for me.

She revealed that she basically stalked me, in a conversation, once. My reaction ->

Well, that's what happened with us. She was the first to admit that she isn't great with "opening up" to others, but once we started spending hours of every day together, it lead to good things. It's worth it.

 

[echoplex]

I dunno, sometimes it seems to me like everyone is a little too scary. Like ESC said, INFJs are often too intense. I'd say the same for INTJs, even though if pressed I'd probably vote them as the best match for INTPs (if I believed it was ever that simple). Or maybe I'm just not an INTP anyway. Those types tend to be very interesting but they tend to scare the shit out of little-ole-sensitive me. Goddamn I love to listen to them talk though.

I dunno, there's something really chill about ISFJs who come from a sane background, or INFPs who aren't completely crazy. I feel I would, ideally, want someone who is both interesting and calm. As much as I admire 'crazy' people I don't think I can actually deal with crazy on a day-to-day level. I just don't have the energy for it. I like sane people who talk about crazy things, to put it simply. ENxPs are hella fun to have around but they too tend to scare me alot like the INxJs. I think I'm perhaps too sensitive to deal with anyone too often anyway. An ideal relationship for me would be a once a week type of thing.

Based purely on type theory though, I'd be inclined to answer INTJ. Actually I'd say provided the once-a-week thing was in place, INTJ could work quite well for me. I also see potential for ISFJ, ISFP, and of course the wonderful INTP.

 

[DannyBoy]

I was with an esfj for almost 3 years. After we broke up we still remained "friends", we don't talk anymore though lol and here's the reason. When we were together we did the test and found out our personality types with a short description answer which was accurate but didn't really go indepth so we didn't think much of it. Anyways after we broke up I did the test again and read an indepth description and thought wow. I showed other people the test aswell and remembered that my ex was the exact opposite of me so I looked hers up and read it. Exactly like her lol so I showed her. She agreed that it was her but got angry with me for showing it saying I was trying to make her "look dumb". :/ told me to fuck off and that was that.

 

[DougRees]

Every human being is unique, but there are 16 Meyer-Briggs types. So there is obviously a wide variation within each type. With that in mind, I think an INTP-ESFJ match could work if the ESFJ isn't too "anal" and judgmental, and if the INTP can find his/her intellectual stimulation somewhere else. The ESFJ might compensate for the INTP's tendency to be unworldly, while the INTP might soften the ESFJ's tendency to be rigid.

But if either (or both) of those conditions isn't met, the relationship probably won't work out. If the first condition isn't met, the relationship will probably turn into a living Hell fairly quickly. If the second condition isn't met, things won't be quite so bad, but the relationship will probably peter out over time.

I am an INTP. I live in a household of five people, one of whom is a pretty extreme ESFJ. It's been miserable. A few minutes ago, I was sitting in my workspace figuring out how to key page elements into a random number generator, so that webpages won't look so boring. The ESFJ was running the vacuum cleaner (which he does about five times every day). We looked at each other with sheer mutual distaste. He thinks I'm "doing nothing". After all, what is mere thought compared to the cosmic importance of picking up the last stray dust molecules from the carpet?:smiley_emoticons_mr

 

[Duxwing]

I've met two ESFJ's in my life, and I’ve want to strangle one and paralyze the other. The first sits in the back row of my AP Chemistry class, always shouting some fresh bit of illogic; her flaccid passions rub my mind raw like sand from the bottom of the sea rubs paint from a sunken wreck. How she manages to comprehend the idea of multiple-domain electron hybridization is beyond me. The second is the mother of my ESTJ classmate, also from my AP Chemistry class: that hag is the most insular, self-centered, cram-it-down-your-throat religious nutcase that I have ever had the misfortune to encounter in person. When I came over to the ESTJ’s house to finish a French project, we worked long into the evening and the ESFJ invited me to dine with them. I helped to prepare the meal as best as I could and tried to maintain some conversation, but the first crack in the baba-yaga’s armor appeared when she could hardly understand a word that I was saying: in her eyes, it was there, the cold, blank Sensor stare.

Disheartened, I kept quiet until dinnertime and sat down at the table when the ESFJ called. Now you see, before eating, the ESTJ’s family had a tradition of saying Grace, and you likely know my philosophical views well enough to understand why I politely refused. “Why not?” the ESFJ demanded, leaning over her plate a bit; internally, I recoiled, Why not? I shouted through the halls of my mind, Is that really a polite question to ask? My ideas are my own business, and you, old bag, don’t seem interested in hearing anything other than your own creed spoken back to you, word for word. “I’m a nihilist,” I replied, trying to keep my Ne from bringing the hammer of logic down upon her puny mind (with her brains, I’d likely shatter it). Unfazed, she continued, “Why not just say it with us anyway?” At this juncture, even I, the socially inept, lax, and utterly liberal INTP was offended. Did she really not understand the idea that other people live differently from her? Does she even comprehend the idea that others might not share her beliefs? Does she even understand the idea that actions can have meaning? Luckily, her ISTJ husband intervened and powered her down. All in all, the evidence that I’ve seen doesn’t support the idea of an INTP-ESFJ pairing going anywhere but straight to the darkest, fieriest pits of the Earth: the ESFJ will be hurt by logic, and the INTP will be baffled by baloney.

As for ENFJ’s, my ENFJ Anatomy and Physiology teacher is like a teddy bear that just came off a radiator: Warm, soft, and cuddly. She, along with the two other ENFJ’s that I’ve known, have been my favorite teachers. Unfortunately, they’re all focused on Feeling, while the INTP is often known by its moniker, The Thinker. I see an ENFJ-INTP relationship as one of the INTP periodically coming to the ENFJ for support and kindness and the ENFJ being interested by the INTP’s thought, but with neither being able fully experience the other’s world.

-Duxwing

 

[MissQuote]

Cons? No care for attending to personal needs, they are surface fixers. They are just looking for that smile, they don't care or are incapable of knowing your inner problems. They look down on you and try to give you care as if you're in need when we have a strong need to be independent, this is irritating. Difference in expectations of communication makes for inevitable quarrels, IP suppresses irritation to keep the peace but suffers from stress. EJ thinks of you as someone of a lower class. There is no stimulation in conversation, we have two different perspectives in life, one wants to be happy and be jovial the other wants to be serious and witty. The biggest problem is in the difference in expectations of feelings. ESFJs are looking for stimulation from an unrestricted release of personal opinions. INTPs are looking for stimulation from a cherished bond.

I have a close friend of the past six years whom I believe to be an ESFJ. Your highlighted statement is the only one i have found to b true of her, of the statements you made.

I have recently been pulling away from her, quite a bit, because the opinions are too much for me to handle (she is WRONG!) and I do not feel at liberty to express this to her as I would likely do irreparable damage to our friendship by doing so. My solution of pulling away more and more could likely do the same, except she has this past year taken a position teaching and so is rarely available between the demands of her new job and her family obligations, my pulling away appears more just that she isn't available and is not noticed much. It will eventually be noticed, or perhaps she will end up feeling more and more distant from me from lack of contact and it won't bother her... we will see.

When we first became friends it was her high level of openness coupled with my lack of being shocked or put off by her excessive talking and sharing (saved me effort, and I didn't find something to back away from like many other types might as she poured out the opinions- I found her fascinating and stimulating) We also shared some interests, as well I just have that plethora of encyclopedic knowledge most INTP's have, so when she got onto a subject I can see, in hindsight, how it may have appeared a subject I had great interest in as well simply by default of knowing so much about it compared to most people. In actuality many of those subjects I do not know much about at all, by my own standards of "knowing" about something, and have no great interest in, they are just things I have learned about in passing in my pursuit of other subjects.

Truly, all the effort of creating a bond between us was nearly on her and I just went along with it, which made me a willing participant I suppose.

In recent time I feel she has begun to go off the deep end. Those interests that we shared, or that I appeared to be interested in by accident, she has hyper-focused on using the wrong subjective sources as her guide (tainted studies and biased news sources) and has built this controlling world of emotional delusion around her that she is so deeply entrenched within it is impenetrable, all the while fooling herself that it is a world of truth and reason.

She is paranoid, she automatically rejects anything that is of conventional wisdom or science based on nothing more than the merit of being the accepted conventional truth.

I cannot speak with her of any of the things I am truly interested in as she jumps straight to telling me the hogwash opinions of mystics and quacks as though their opinions are more valid simply because they are odd and not the norm of accepted reality. She thinks everything is a conspiracy. This may seem odd for me to say, with the openmindedness of INTPdom- but our openmindednes stops abruptly in the face of illogical bullshit.

For example- she called me once and asked what was up and I said I was watching some show on evolution, she immediately jumped into how there was an "alternative theory" and began going on and on about the Aquatic Ape Theory, but going on and on about it as though the pure fact that it is not well known is what makes it the obvious truth. Nothing about whether the theory was any good at all, just it being 'alternative' is what made it true to her.

I spend most time just biting my tongue anymore, around her. And she just talks more, and more. Opinions opinions opinions.

I am afraid I will blow up on her one of these days, hence the withdrawing.


EDIT- This seems to have just turned into me ranting about it by the end. Oops.

 

[Duxwing]

I have a close friend of the bast six years whom I believe to be an ESFJ. Your highlighted statement is the only one i have found to b true of her, of the statements you made.

I have recently been pulling away from her, quite a bit, because the opinions are too much for me to handle (she is WRONG!) and I do not feel at liberty to express this to her as I would likely do irreparable damage to our friendship by doing so. My solution of pulling away more and more could likely do the same, except she has this past year taken a position teaching and so is rarely available between the demands of her new job and her family obligations, my pulling away appears more just that she isn't available and is not noticed much. It will eventually be noticed, or perhaps she will end up feeling more and more distant from me from lack of contact and it won't bother her... we will see.

When we first became friends it was her high level of openness coupled with my lack of being shocked or put off by her excessive talking and sharing (saved me effort, and I didn't find something to back away from like many other types might as she poured out the opinions- I found her fascinating and stimulating) We also shared some interests, as well I just have that plethora of encyclopedic knowledge most INTP's have, so when she got onto a subject I can see, in hindsight, how it may have appeared a subject I had great interest in as well simply by default of knowing so much about it compared to most people. In actuality many of those subjects I do not know much about at all, by my own standards of "knowing" about something, and have no great interest in, they are just things I have learned about in passing in my pursuit of other subjects.

Truly, all the effort of creating a bond between us was nearly on her and I just went along with it, which made me a willing participant I suppose.

In recent time I feel she has begun to go off the deep end. Those interests that we shared, or that I appeared to be interested in by accident, she has hyper-focused on using the wrong subjective sources as her guide (tainted studies and biased news sources) and has built this controlling world of emotional delusion around her that she is so deeply entrenched within it is impenetrable, all the while fooling herself that it is a world of truth and reason.

She is paranoid, she automatically rejects anything that is of conventional wisdom or science based on nothing more than the merit of being the accepted conventional truth.

I cannot speak with her of any of the things I am truly interested in as she jumps straight to telling me the hogwash opinions of mystics and quacks as though their opinions are more valid simply because they are odd and not the norm of accepted reality. She thinks everything is a conspiracy. This may seem odd for me to say, with the openmindedness of INTPdom- but our openmindednes stops abruptly in the face of illogical bullshit.

For example- she called me once and asked what was up and I said I was watching some show on evolution, she immediately jumped into how there was an "alternative theory" and began going on and on about the Aquatic Ape Theory, but going on and on about it as though the pure fact that it is not well known is what makes it the obvious truth. Nothing about whether the theory was any good at all, just it being 'alternative' is what made it true to her.

I spend most time just biting my tongue anymore, around her. And she just talks more, and more. Opinions opinions opinions.

I am afraid I will blow up on her one of these days, hence the withdrawing.

I say detonate: cut this cancer off your side once and for all.

-Duxwing

 

[MissQuote]

Yeah.

Her ears must have burnt because she called me while I was writing that.

I kept typing as she talked.

I am a terrible person.

 

[Duxwing]

Yeah.

Her ears must have burnt because she called me while I was writing that.

I kept typing as she talked.

I am a terrible person.

*sigh, shakes head, smiles* No, you're not: You're funny, interesting, and smart, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If you don't like her, leave her. I know that it'll hurt, but do you really want to put up with her opinions for all eternity?

-Duxwing

 

[MissQuote]

Well, I appreciate you saying those things @Duxwing .

That may be one of the few times I have ever been told I am funny. Most people do not find me so at all, so far as I can tell they simply do not get the joke... but try explaining that to the masses.

 

[Duxwing]

Well, I appreciate you saying those things @Duxwing .

That may be one of the few times I have ever been told I am funny. Most people do not find me so at all, so far as I can tell they simply do not get the joke... but try explaining that to the masses.

Jokes are art: their beauty lies in the beholder, so provided that you're delivering your jokes as you intend them to be delivered, don't worry about people not finding you funny-- that's just a matter of audience taste.



-Duxwing

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

Hey I want to update my post, in case someone here was foolish enough to listen to me regarding relationship advice

My current gf (2 1/2 years now, no end in sight) is an INFP, not an INFJ as I first thought. From what I've learned in the past few years with typology, I honestly can't believe I ever mixed that up.
And I love her to pieces.

Word of warning: Things will get extra cuddly in these sort of relationships and that will either make you sick to your stomach, or you'll let out a little of that soft, inner snuggliness you've been hiding all these years. Or maybe I'm more of the mature sort

No but really, I'm pretty sure she'd shoot me if I didn't cuddle with her at night.

The payoff?: She patiently sits around and listens to me as I blabber about whatever comes to mind, for the entire day. And I usually never have anything important to say. I marvel at how sometimes I can stretch a thirty second topic into a two hour long diatribe about something I forget I was even talking about by the time its all over. And she sits there and laughs at me after I'm done.

Beyond being patient with me, we do seem to complement each other's daily preferences very well. She's probably more into being intimate than me but I do enjoy having someone to lay around with and its way better than porn...that's kind of a funny thought. I don't look at her necessarily as a friend but more so as the ultimate companion. I have had male INFP friends and they've ranked as among the best I've ever had. Could be more to that dynamic I guess.

She is the only person, ever, who can put up with the full brunt of my existence, and then actually comes away feeling positive. Not even my mother can match her in this regard. She can't be replaced.

 

[Duxwing]

Hey I want to update my post, in case someone here was foolish enough to listen to me regarding relationship advice

My current gf (2 1/2 years now, no end in sight) is an INFP, not an INFJ as I first thought. From what I've learned in the past few years with typology, I honestly can't believe I ever mixed that up.
And I love her to pieces.

Word of warning: Things will get extra cuddly in these sort of relationships and that will either make you sick to your stomach, or you'll let out a little of that soft, inner snuggliness you've been hiding all these years. Or maybe I'm more of the mature sort

No but really, I'm pretty sure she'd shoot me if I didn't cuddle with her at night.

The payoff?: She patiently sits around and listens to me as I blabber about whatever comes to mind, for the entire day. And I usually never have anything important to say. I marvel at how sometimes I can stretch a thirty second topic into a two hour long diatribe about something I forget I was even talking about by the time its all over. And she sits there and laughs at me after I'm done.

Beyond being patient with me, we do seem to complement each other's daily preferences very well. She's probably more into being intimate than me but I do enjoy having someone to lay around with and its way better than porn...that's kind of a funny thought. I don't look at her necessarily as a friend but more so as the ultimate companion. I have had male INFP friends and they've ranked as among the best I've ever had. Could be more to that dynamic I guess.

She is the only person, ever, who can put up with the full brunt of my existence, and then actually comes away feeling positive. Not even my mother can match her in this regard. She can't be replaced.

Awwww! *gives a huge smile like an ENFJ would* She sounds wonderful, Gather, I hope that she sticks around for a long time: someone who likes your inner world and listens to your lectures is invaluable to INTP's-- it makes us feel validated, like all our thinking is going somewhere (hypothesis!). Also, as a matter of curiosity and me being all cuddly from your story, will she be Mrs. Gather one day?

-Duxwing

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

Awwww! *gives a huge smile like an ENFJ would* She sounds wonderful, Gather, I hope that she sticks around for a long time: someone who likes your inner world and listens to your lectures is invaluable to INTP's-- it makes us feel validated, like all our thinking is going somewhere (hypothesis!). Also, as a matter of curiosity and me being all cuddly from your story, will she be Mrs. Gather one day?

-Duxwing

In my mind, she's already Mrs. Gather. We're both just pacing ourselves so we can set up an awesome nest egg. And we have seriously talked about 'us' and know where we're going with it. The peace of mind one gets from simplifying this essential area of life is just...so cool. I always sucked at going out to meet women, though I did seem to end up having more luck than not. 'Dumb luck', my older brother used to say to me. I think girls liked the fact that I didn't understand really why I was charming to them...or that's how I see it anyway.
But now I'm done with all that BS because she's way better than anyone I've ever had. Really, I wouldn't dare second guess it.

(And I'm not trying to turn this into a sap-fest) One thing she does that annoys the crap out of me is take advantage of the fact that I just simply don't get sarcasm right away. Whenever someone is talking to me, my first instinct is to take them at their word and if they're joking with me, it goes right over my head. I wouldn't understand why someone would be lying or joking unless I had been clued into it. I honestly, really can hardly help myself in this manner. She loooooves to take advantage of this fact and constantly teases me about it. I just don't get it when she does it and its kind of frustrating, although I'm okay with it because it makes her laugh.
I do get sarcasm, but only when I do it.

Does anyone else have that issue?

 

[intp-ness]

i may be a bit late to the party, but I think they're fantastic. I recently met and fell in love with one through a friend I suspect is an ENFP and she was beautiful, warm, vibrant and caring. there was no problem communicating on her level (exept emotionally) because I was fascinated by her and was gripped by the need to understand that I'm sure you can all identify with. the problem was I live in Australia and she was from England (like my ENFP friend) and as much as I wanted her my mind couldn't dismiss the seemingly insurmountable problem of distance. it was like I could see any possible relationship crumbling before it began. because of that I was in one of my analytical moods when she told me she loved me and I failed to respond appropriately which has caused a massive emotional upheaval on my part as I relive all the things I should have said. however I'd do it all again. not only does she bring out my inferior feeling function, but she provides a truly different perspective and offers a great deal of opportunity for learning and growth. despite our differences I think together INTPs and ESFJs could make an amazing team.

 

[Aviator8]

Kill all the other humans and you won't have to worry about it.

Never met an ISFJ, they sound great, but at less than 1%, unrealistic.