Infj + Intp love ?

[MaryJane]

I am an INFJ, with a weak J, dating an INTP, with a weak T. However, from everything that i know about him he seems very much to be an INTP.

We have been dating for 3 months and I find myself completely intrigued, mystified, intellectually challenged (which I love), by this man. However, i also find him to be challenging in the sense that I feel as though I love him, and have *gasp* told him so, although he insists not only is that impossible due to the short amount of time we have known each other, but he also says he does not believe love exists, and that he has never loved a girl or been in love (hes 31 and im 40).

So, i dropped that and have said a few times that i care about him, to which he did say he cares about me too. Although i still feel love for him.

I also see him as being very uncomfortable with emotional expressions in general although *usually* his explanations just leave me feeling even more enamoured with him because of his calm, rational explanations. I love talking to him about these things and i respect him very much - hes exceptionally intelligent - and i find these, really all conversations endlessly fascinating to hear his points of view and his understanding of things.

But sometimes he seems hypersensitive to the idea that i am needy simply because he knows how i feel anout him and i think he tends to assume i have hidden agendas when we talk sometimes relating to me - according to him - trying to make him feel love for me. This happens with completely random conversations like how i had anvargument with my father, for example, and he accused me of trying to make him feel as though i need him to "take care of me" and therefore to commit to a serious relationship.

I dont do those sorts of things and its reallly frustrating for me to feel completely misunderstood in such a way. Im beginning to feel as though i am walking on eggshells around him to make him feel as though i respect his need for space and independence and i see a pattern developing where he pulls me close to him one week and then disappears the next.

Hes either all about being with me and those times are amazing and romantic and extremely sexually charged, or hes about needing space and time alone and not wanting to really talk to me. I feel like our relationship is a bit like a yo-yo and im questioning- is this a healthy INTP that has the potential for a real relationship or not?

He has a history if abuse growing up and was taught by his father, who was a marine, not to rely on people but on things and ideas. He talks endlessly about being independent and how hes never kept any friends more than several years and the concept of keeping any long term relationships - friends or romantic - is alien to him and makes no sense to him.

Is this common for INTPs? Does this sound like it could work out? I am torn with these feelings i have for him - ive never met anyone like him and am just completely taken with him - or does he sound damaged or like maybe i should get out before things get too complicated and stressful for both of us?

I really live him but i dont want to be unhappy.

 

[SpaceYeti]

He sounds like an asshole. Maybe he's incapable of love, but I sure feel it whenever I get to be with my wife, son, and daughter. He's essentially calling not only me, but just about everyone on the planet a liar.

From what I read, and from personal experience, INTPs do not tend to consider friends and romances to be temporary things. In my personal experience, I never bothered doing anything with a woman if I presumed it wouldn't last, because that's a waste of time. If I'm going to be romantic with a chick, I want it to mean something.

It seems to me more like he has put far too much effort into avoiding relationships due to his abuse than in figuring out his feelings. Many INTPs do this for a while. I like to think I learned early on that emotions are also facts you need to consider when making decisions, they are not valueless.

 

[Architect]

He has a history if abuse growing up and was taught by his father, who was a marine, not to rely on people but on things and ideas. He talks endlessly about being independent and how hes never kept any friends more than several years and the concept of keeping any long term relationships - friends or romantic - is alien to him and makes no sense to him.

Is this common for INTPs? Does this sound like it could work out? I am torn with these feelings i have for him - ive never met anyone like him and am just completely taken with him - or does he sound damaged or like maybe i should get out before things get too complicated and stressful for both of us?

It sounds like the childhood abuse plus his nature (he does sound like an INTP) have reacted negatively together unfortunately. INTP's naturally have a independent approach to life without dependencies, I could see that being raised in an abusive environment would lead to deciding to be completely independent. I don't take it as far as he does, but I prize my independence and I was raised in the exact opposite environment.

What's truly unfortunate is that INTPs and INFJs share great compatibility; the pair is sometimes called the "Golden Couple". However, I don't think you'll be able to break through to him on this. Children of abuse are never able to truly get free of it in my understanding.

Unfortunately I think you should probably let him go. But there are other INTP's in the sea which I'd encourage you to look for (including on this board (myself not included)). My wife is an INFJ and I can verify the two types are made for each other.

 

[scorpiomover]

This is a very long post. There is a lot here. To not disturb others with such a long and involved post, I've put it in a spoiler, so that those who want to read it, can, and those who feel "Too Long, Didn't Read", can ignore it.

Spoiler

However, i also find him to be challenging in the sense that I feel as though I love him, and have *gasp* told him so, although he insists not only is that impossible due to the short amount of time we have known each other, but he also says he does not believe love exists, and that he has never loved a girl or been in love (hes 31 and im 40).

Sounds like he has low self-efficacy in relationships. He simply hasn't been in one, and thinks that it's because something in him is preventing him, i.e. that "it's impossible". I've found many times, that as long as I keep doing the thing, but with no pressure to accept that I am succeeding in it, that after I've been doing it for a long time, and a friend mentioned that I have already been doing it successfully for a while, that I reflected on what he said, realised that I had been doing it for a long time, and changed my POV.

So, i dropped that and have said a few times that i care about him, to which he did say he cares about me too. Although i still feel love for him.

I also see him as being very uncomfortable with emotional expressions in general

A lot of INTPs who've never been in love feel that way, if their general experiences of emotions have been negative. That too is a matter of low self-efficacy. This time, it's a matter of low self-efficacy of positive emotions. Regular gentle positive encouragement, accompanied with no pressure to react as if one is comfortable with emotions, and NO negative emotional criticism of any kind, slowly changes, with positive emotional expression becoming more and more comfortable, until it becomes quite natural.

Many people find not expressing negative emotional criticism a hindrance, because they grew up hearing that, and feel that it's normal. However, it does harm relationships and children. Every negative can also be expressed as a positive. It just takes a lot more creativity and effort to describe something in positive terms. It is easy to say what you don't like about someone. Much harder to identify exactly what you do like about someone. But the effects are amazing. Scientists already found that on average, it takes 10 praises to counter-effect the harmful effects of 1 criticism. Kids suffer from negative criticism far, far worse, because they carry the things they learned in childhood through life, and so negativity at a young age, either makes one negative through life, or one has to put a lot of effort to overcoming it and to keep battling negativity right through life. Plus, neurologically speaking, it's harmful for you to speak negatively, about anyone, yourself or others. So it's in your interest to cut out negative criticism anyway, for yourself, and for any relationships you might have, and for any kids you deal with, whether they be yours or other people.

But sometimes he seems hypersensitive to the idea that i am needy simply because he knows how i feel anout him and i think he tends to assume i have hidden agendas when we talk sometimes relating to me - according to him - trying to make him feel love for me. This happens with completely random conversations like how i had anvargument with my father, for example, and he accused me of trying to make him feel as though i need him to "take care of me" and therefore to commit to a serious relationship.

The fact that he said you need him to take care of you, when you're 40, and you wrote that you're not like that anyway, suggests that the idea is coming from him, which is consistent with him being an INxx, as introversion and intuition are both about one's ideas coming more from oneself than others. So it's him who feels that he should take care of you, and it's him who feels like he should commit. If it was really something that he didn't want, he would just ignore it, and then when the subject did come up, say, about commitment, he'd say what many men uninterested in a commitment would say, such as "I'd like to get married soon." "Really? Who with?" (A guy I know about, really did say that to a girl he was dating). So I would expect that he feels a certain societal pressure, and might be willing to, but feels like he is unable to, and that makes him feel like he is being asked to do something that he can't live up to.

I guessing that by this point, you think that he could, and you don't need him to anyway. So this is another case of unrealistic low self-efficacy. As long as he continues to date you, and you don't make a big deal of that he says he can't, and just gently encourage him to do individual things, in ways that he can deal with, after 6 months to a year, he'll be there in all but name, and even that can be fixed, if it's gently pointed out to him then, that he's been doing it anyway, and so continuing to do so, doesn't require anything but what he's been doing naturally.

I dont do those sorts of things and its reallly frustrating for me to feel completely misunderstood in such a way. Im beginning to feel as though i am walking on eggshells around him to make him feel as though i respect his need for space and independence and i see a pattern developing where he pulls me close to him one week and then disappears the next.

Hes either all about being with me and those times are amazing and romantic and extremely sexually charged, or hes about needing space and time alone and not wanting to really talk to me.

Introverts can be like that. Jung said that the difference between extroverts and introverts was described by Blake as "prolific" and "devouring" respectively. It often feels with introverts, that when they're focussed on you, they are incredibly intensely focussed on you, and when they are focussed on something else, they are incredibly intensely not focussing on you. Sometimes, an INTP can get so caught up with other things, that it feels like they've forgotten you exist. They just need a gentle reminder that you're still there. Sometimes, I go into my shell, and not leave the house. My friends will then come round and make me get out, if one for a few minutes. Once I've been broken out of my pattern a little bit, then I loosen up, and they can talk to me about what's bothering me, that made me retreat. But they can't force me to open up with my feelings, or I'll clam up even more. They can get me out physically, and then they have to let me open up emotionally, at my own pace.

Sure, it bugs my mum, my sister, and my ENFJ male friend that I'm like this. But what I've observed, is that despite all the criticims and problems that they find with me, that they say they don't have with other people, they keep coming back, and yet, they just don't seem to make that much effort for most people, and when things are good between us, they are positively ecstatic about how much they enjoy their time with me.

He has a history if abuse growing up and was taught by his father, who was a marine, not to rely on people but on things and ideas. He talks endlessly about being independent and how hes never kept any friends more than several years and the concept of keeping any long term relationships - friends or romantic - is alien to him and makes no sense to him.

I feel like our relationship is a bit like a yo-yo and im questioning- is this a healthy INTP that has the potential for a real relationship or not?

It depends with who. People who suffered chronic abuse in their childhood, see the world very, very differently to people who haven't. In many ways, it's like being an intuitive in a world of sensors, because there are many things that one sees and experiences through childhood abuse, that opens your eyes to so much of how the world works, that other people just have never had to learn to perceive. In other ways, it's like growing up in a war zone. Civvy life seems quite boring and difficult. But if really problematic situations arise, and the person ignores or overcomes their latent fears and just tries to get on with it, the person seems to take it all in his stride, because for him, it feels like nothing, compared to what he is used to, and however bad it may seem, he's had to learn to overcome a lot more and a lot more often, and so this is just another thing to deal with, which is easily within his capability.

However, they are not for everyone. There are certain things that he will understand naturally, that will take someone with a happy childhood much effort to begin to understand. So there is likely to be much that you will always feel that is closed off from you, because you don't understand where he is coming from. He's more likely to be more emotionally unstable. Even if he is emotionally stable at the moment, when things do become emotionally turbulent, for him, they can be much more powerful, because it reminds him of his childhood. In addition, those experiences probably made him a lot more emotional and sensitive than your average person, and so what seems like only a tiny bit of criticism to you, can seem like screaming at him for hours.

However, everything has its negatives and positives. With all those problems, comes someone who is incredibly passionate, incredibly deep, incredibly sensitive to the needs of others, incredibly strong, incredibly capable, and incredibly perseverant. You don't survive being crushed for all those years, without developing incredible strength and capability to be able to survive all that.

So it's really a question of what type of relationship you want: If you want the normal, garden-variety relationship, then you want a normal person. If you want incredible excitement, joy, open-mindedness, passion, and lots more, then you have to accept that you'll have to put in a lot more effort to overcome the negatives that come with such an amazing relationship. Many people just don't have the fortitude and strength to handle that either. So you have to be a very strong person, and to be willing to put up with a lot of difficulty to have amazing experiences.

It also depends on him. Many abused people don't want to deal with their problems. They often end up projecting their issues onto others. Those are usually a no-no for everyone, because for things to improve, he has to change as well, and that takes facing up to uncomfortable truths, and very hard work. But if he's willing to acknowledge that much of his problems are his, and that he's willing to work on them, probably for the rest of his life, then his life will keep improving with each passing year, and everything just gets better and better, for the rest of his life.

If you want this seriously, then you have to sit down and seriously think if he's willing to grow and develop as a person, to overcome his challenges, and if you can handle difficulty, and if you'd rather have an easy life or an exciting life. Being with people who overcame adversity can be amazing. But it's not for everyone.

 

[Spirit]

Wow, an abused INTP ... that is an emotional mess. You may never connect. However, his FE may not have kicked in yet. I would not rush him or try to push him into changing. He needs to get there by himself and because he could be living based on his internal logic, he would have to re write those parameters to accept love or trust closeness. I would not say he is an asshole but I would pick someone else because this will be a long road.

 

[MaryJane]

Long road ahead = best case scenario IMO.

He openly talks about how all women have hidden agendas, and that he has learned from his father never to put people first, or even equal, to his personal interests/ pursuits because the feeling of closeness will undoubtedly come to an end and is simply an illusion anyway. Oh, and that his father told him if he believed/behaved orherwise, "the world will eat him alive."

Its funny how at once he knows he was mistreated but still internalized these messages and seems completely unaware of this.

Yes i believe as inteligent and as capable of being rational and logical as he is, many of his conclusions are emotion based, and he so freaking smart he can almost - *almost*- convince me that hes right. I struggle to keep up with him and i am quite intelligent myself!

I think im reaching a point where im almost scared to say anything to him about anything because i dont know what he will assume i mean.

Hes also been especially distant the kast week or so and i just try to guve him space.

Im not trying to bash him - i really coukd list a million things about him that ive never encountered in a person that make him so amazing, and talk about wonderful sex- gosh.
Im just becoming increasingly anxious, confused, and i start iveranalyzing everything. Not good.

Is he dating another girl? Does he think of ne as just a way to pass the time? When he wants to hang out does he just want sex? Etc etc....

And coupled with my ever increasing fear of open cimmunication... All bad things.

I was just curious/trying to tease apart whats typical INTP behavior vs abused INTP behavior.

Not saying im perfect but i dont want to drag out misery on either one of our parts.

 

[MaryJane]

Ok i feel like im really falling for him. And btw, there were studies dine which are outlined in the book "just your type" which showed that for INTPs, they were happiest with INFJs... So yes there is research to back up this pairing.

I dont know what to do.... Hes amazing and crazy and sex is amazing. Im so torn. And im afraid hes way smarter tan i am which makes communication feel like i always lise the duscussions, and not to brag, but im in mensa!!! But he runs circles around me. Sigh... I just dont know if i can give him up although he is a tough one. And yes, i choose excitement, passion, challenging conversations, etc above safety. Blah. Im such a sucker fir love. The irony is that he doesnt believe in love. So why is he still sticking around???

I guess i worry he is just using me for fun and/ or sex. Do INFPs do that???
It sounds like they dont but im riddled with insecurities since he says love is an illusion. What does he want?? Sometimes i think he doesnt know himself, but what do i know. I just feel longing. I long for him so much.

It would be hard but maybe i shoukd seek out other INTPs?? He says he dorsnt get jealous but the other day he got so jealous about a guy he left my house at 6 am. He called it setting boundaries. But he refuses to say we are in a relationship.

Im going to go crazy. I miss him all tge time and hes so hot/ cold. Please any other advice?????

Love torn,
An INFJ erg.

 

[MaryJane]

Ps sorry for all the typos i type all if this on my iphone.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

It sounds like he is in denial. Perhaps he is saying that he doesn't believe in love because he is scared of rejection. You have told him you love him.

Edit: On actually reading everything you have posted in this thread I would advise leaving him. If he got that jealous and refuses to admit you are in a romantic relationship, whilst setting boundaries.. Yeah. Kick him to the curb. He is too broken. And will probably become very controlling.

But I am just a stranger on the net. Use your intuition. And don't relay on MBTI to have all the answers.

... Unless you are super paranoid ?

 

[MaryJane]

No i wouldnt blindly follow anyones advice regardless of who it was, but i feel so confused i need more points of view to consider to help me come to a conclusion.

What he said about leaving my house at 6 am-- hes not jealous but that i was trying to make him jealous and so he had to set a boundary to show me that behavior will not be tolerated.

I admit i was drunk that night and maybe a part of me did just want to see his reaction. Hes always said- date other guys its fine, and that he is not jealous because hes not insecure, etc etc. i think i wanted to test that out. So-- he left.

Ever since that night (about 2 weeks ago) his behavior has changed and he is more (if possible) distant. Last night i asked him if he was dating anyone else - i told him it was fine if he was i was just curious if he was- and he said it wasnt my business and my dating other guys wasnt his business. Although at one point he did say no, he wasnt.

I dont know if im pushing him away but i do think he has issues. But when we talk he always has a way of explaining all of his beliefs and all of his behavior and i get confused.

So, most of you seem to be saying, you do love? And that you do form relationships that last more than 2-4 years? (both friends and romantic?). Hes only had one GF frim 5 years ago and will say he hates her. It came out last night she cheated on him many times.

He says he will not waste time on a committed relationship unless its "perfect" because he will not "settle".

BTW hes a musician :/

After typing all of this i feel like maybe i do have my answer. But it is not easy for me to leave someone I love. I also suffer from broken wing syndrome :/ ugh.

 

[Amagi82]

I guess the real question is: do you have sufficient interest to deal with an emotionally damaged individual, and help him through the healing process? Because that's a difficult road.

If you truly want to be with him, you'll have to be patient, show by your actions that his negative perceptions about relationships are unfounded, and be supportive. INTPs have a very difficult time understanding emotions, and we take a very long time processing the ones we have. My wife is an INTJ with F tendencies, and she has learned that if she wants any emotional information out of me, she needs to ask her questions, leave me alone, and I will give her a reply sometime in the next couple hours. I work much better in text form than I do verbally, so I'll usually write out an email with my thoughts about my emotions.

He needs to understand that love is not necessarily something he'll ever feel strongly, and that's okay, because while we don't necessarily know what love is, we do sincerely care about the people we choose to be close to. In our own way, we love them, whether we understand it or not. I'd recommend you both read the The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts: Gary D Chapman: 9780802473158: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ylGqNESML.@@AMEPARAM@@51ylGqNESML. This will help both of you understand which behaviors you can use to express love in the most efficient manner possible.

He will respond poorly and have difficulty understanding your emotional needs, and be utterly useless at understanding hints, but if you take the time to frame your needs in a highly logical, extremely direct way, I think you'll be surprised by how well he responds. One of the best things you can do is try to get him interested in psychology and human relationships. Ask him questions like "What do you think is the best way to..." or "how can we fix...". No INTP worth his salt can resist a question like that, and if you're clever you can completely alter someone's thought processes simply by asking questions.

 

[MaryJane]

Getting him interested in human relationships--
My first reaction is to laugh. But then i think about the time we spend together and i think, well, if these experiences are illusions and will lead to a path of "being eaten alive" like he was raised to believe, why is he still here? What *does* he get out of our time together?

He said he loves foreplay. I asked him why. He said it just feels good. To me 4 hours of foreplay is more than sensory. It wouldnt be enjoyable unless you felt *something* for the person. But he seemed to brush off the question as if it was an odd question.

His description of a perfect relationship = a girl that will understand and respect that she will never be first in his life, his music will. Someone who isnt needy, etc etc.

Anyway, ill check the book out and see if it gives me anymore insight.

 

[Brontosaurie]

His description of a perfect relationship = a girl that will understand and respect that she will never be first in his life, his music will. Someone who isnt needy, etc etc.

INTP's don't do a lot of music. we lean more toward Hypertracks.

might wanna check if he's an ISTP.

 

[MaryJane]

.

 

[MaryJane]

Well he took guitar lessons his whole life. And hes freaking tecnically perfect at it. But honestly i hear little to no emotion in his songs. I think that is a very sore spot for him because he thinks ppl who call his music "academic" sounding really offends him. But i dont think he uses it as a means of emotional expression really much at all.

Once he played me a bunch if guitar music he liked. I asked him how one song made him feel. The song was very sad. He said it made him feel happy. Why? Because they were so talented. I asked him what he imagined the singer might be feeling. Answer= your question does not compute. He really didnt understand. He finally just said, well i woulndt know that.

Of course i thought this was cute :P

 

[MaryJane]

Oh i really didnt address the S part-

I dont think so. He hates sports, anything like that, and was working as a chef for a friend and he hated that too. I dont think that fits...

 

[PhoenixRising]

..i see a pattern developing where he pulls me close to him one week and then disappears the next.

Hes either all about being with me and those times are amazing and romantic and extremely sexually charged, or hes about needing space and time alone and not wanting to really talk to me. I feel like our relationship is a bit like a yo-yo and im questioning- is this a healthy INTP that has the potential for a real relationship or not?

Hi there MaryJane This actually sounds a lot like most relationships I've been in (except for the same-type partnership I'm in now). As an INTP, sometimes I really just need time alone to think, and I see attachment in the traditional sense as unhealthy at best. People of other types, especially extroverts and F-types, drain me of my energy over time, so I can only be around them for so long before I need a long break to recharge.

Most people have a hard time when their love interest draws away from them, they take it as a sign of rejection. In my experience, this is frustrating for INTPs, because we can be some of the most loving and loyal people out there.. but often times we just can't come to an understanding with others about our behavior :/

This is why mutual understanding is important in a relationship with an INTP. If you're able to truly be open with each other about the differences in your psychology and continually compromise in order to work around those differences, then things may work out. In your case, because it sounds like you have an innate need for more stability/emotional reassurance in a relationship, it's likely you would end up dissatisfied in the end. If the yo-yo effect bothers you now, it will probably only wear down your patience over time (in my experience, emotional oscillation doesn't stop with INTPs even when compatibility is flawless).

There is also the factor of the subjective nature of Ti. From my experience, Ji-leads in general have very specifically tailored ideals when it comes to things like relationships. If you don't fit the ideal, then it's unlikely he'll ever take the relationship seriously. It's important to listen to the ideals he's listed because he's telling you the unique picture you'd have to fit in order to completely satisfy him.

All in all, it's up to you what you want to do. I would recommend letting him go for your own sake and seeking an emotionally stable partner (i.e. not an INTP..)

 

[Amagi82]

More thoughts:

The sooner he gets over the idea that love is some mystical emotion he's supposed to be feeling but isn't (or doesn't know he is), and associates love with a series of visible, identifiable behaviors, the better off you'll both be. I know I love my wife because I almost involuntarily exhibit the behaviors associated with love (like wanting to be around her, giving back rubs, caring about her well-being, etc). I believe many people are uncomfortable saying the words "I love you" because they think they're supposed to experience some strange emotion that they cannot readily identify, so saying "I love you" would be self-interpreted as lying. When you break it down into behaviors, it's plain as day to see, and you can confidently claim you love someone.

 

[Ink]

All in all, it's up to you what you want to do. I would recommend letting him go for your own sake and seeking an emotionally stable partner (i.e. not an INTP..)

Saying all INTPs are emotionally unstable in this sense is wrong

 

[Brontosaurie]

Saying all INTPs are emotionally unstable in this sense is wrong

yes, much so. instability isn't even the main gripe of inferior Fe imo.

 

[Duxwing]

Perhaps said emotional instability refers to the cycling of dead-seeming Ti and alive, excited Fe?

-Duxwing

 

[MaryJane]

I took her comment that INTPs are "emotionally unstable" to mean that emotionally, they get overewhelmed with too much intimacy or feeling and need to be on their own for a little while. I can relate up to a certain extent to this as an introvert myself.

I would say, that for whatever reason I dont take his disappearing personally, i. e., feel personally rejected. Maybe weve had enough good, open communication to allow me to understand to some extent what is going on. What is difficult, rather, is its like, think of doing sonething that you love and makes you do happy, and then realize, oh, you only get to do that once a week.

When he leaves my house I feel lonely. But i wont call because i imagine hes needing to recharge.

 

[MaryJane]

Wow reading back through my posts i see how quickly things can change. I definitely noticed extra distant behavior and started to think he was dating someone else too.

But after we talked 2 nights ago, he expressed that he was mad and jealous about when i brought up another guy. He had all very rational logical explanations for this which i wont rehash...but i started to see a bit - maybe a tiny bit - of something in there that enjoyed our connection on an emotional level. Although now hes off and running and said i was being very rude. And i had just also found out his one and only GF cheated on him for years. Ughg... Not good things.

It was stupid of me but i wanted to see if he was as disconnected as he claimed. I conclude he is not. But rather simply controlling his emotions with sticking to the facts. So to speak. Ugh im sick of thinking about this.

 

[MaryJane]

*retreats into her own world if solitude*

 

[Duxwing]

*retreats into her own world if solitude*

He'll be waiting for you outside when you come out.

-Duxwing

 

[MaryJane]

Nope... Yes hes there but barely. We havent talked on the phone in a week and he only respnds to some if my texts. Then he says he cant call because hes going out and he didnt answer my phine call cuz he was asleep-- we can talk later. Im seriously thinking this is bullshit. All we do is have sex and eat. We dont talk and we only see each other maybe once a week. Just on verge of either cutting him off or telling him hes an ass and then cutting him off. Effing sick of this. I feel like hes using me for sex. Im really mad right now.

 

[MaryJane]

He works like 15 hours a week, goes out every night, never invites me, has yet to ask me to come out to wtch him play guitar. This is bull-shit. Ive been pursuing him and always have to make first contact then he may ask to come over. I finally asked him to leave apt with me on the 4th and he saud the whole night stressed him out. Sorry but thats not me or my fault. Take sime freaking responsibility and stop isolating yourself because you cant deal with shit. Obviously, im a little pissed rught now. Taking all will power to not call him and tell him to go screw himself.

Simeine try- i dare you - to explain how hes not an asshole. Double flipping dare you to try. BS.

 

[pjoa09]

Are you sure you got his type straight?

We have a weak Ti, Fe not kicking in, the ability to be completely entertained by a guitar, jealousy, and an asshole who can't maintain intimate relationships.

I really don't think he's an INTP. Hell I don't think he even utilizes any Ti or Fe. You might be hanging out with an INTJ, INFP, or something. Whatever it is let it go, it's a douche in smart-douche clothing.

Even I have the courtesy to give attention to those who seek mine.

I see no Fe and you are mentioning weak Ti soooooooo... where is the INTP here? I see Te and Fi.

I know you are just asking random advice, but if you aren't getting any attention from him, then he's clearly not worth being around. Dump him.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Tough break.

 

[Cherry Cola]

if hes content with treating you like that he cant be all that, you sound like a nice person he doesn't; don't waste no more time :O

 

[Duxwing]

if hes content with treating you like that he cant be all that, you sound like a nice person he doesn't; don't waste no more time :O

I agree. The relationship seems too toxic to salvage, let alone enjoy.

-Duxwing

 

[Hadoblado]

Are you sure you got his type straight?

We have a weak Ti, Fe not kicking in, the ability to be completely entertained by a guitar, jealousy, and an asshole who can't maintain intimate relationships.

I really don't think he's an INTP. Hell I don't think he even utilizes any Ti or Fe. You might be hanging out with an INTJ, INFP, or something. Whatever it is let it go, it's a douche in smart-douche clothing.

Even I have the courtesy to give attention to those who seek mine.

I see no Fe and you are mentioning weak Ti soooooooo... where is the INTP here? I see Te and Fi.

I know you are just asking random advice, but if you aren't getting any attention from him, then he's clearly not worth being around. Dump him.

Waitwaitwait...

When did his Ti become weak?

When couldn't INTP's enjoy playing music?

Being jealous while denying the existence of the emotions sounds pretty INTP to me.

@OP
You mentioned you wouldn't take anything said on here for granted, I'm going to take that as license to splurge without restraint.

Okay so the love thing I completely understand. It's not necessarily that he doesn't think it exists at all, just that he doesn't think he can experience it. It's like when you're talking to a highly spiritual person and you don't think that they necessarily don't experience what they say they do, but you don't think it's something you'd ever experience, and you can sort of write it off as a subjective experience of those that are less rational.

This basically speaks of a drive to control the irrational within oneself, which is something most people on the forum can understand I'm sure. Basically he rejects his inferior function (Fe), allowing his Ti to reign tyrannically in service to the values instilled in him by his abusive father. You might find it odd that someone so rational could be so unsceptical towards his underlying motives, but given their source, it's not difficult to see why he might want to leave that stone unturned.

This man is completely untrusting. Relationships are not something he sees as viable, as he cannot split his intentions with another. I've had very very similar experiences where I'm happy to be around someone, and to be intimate at some level, but essentially hello always ends in goodbye. You look at the statistics behind relationship lifespan, and you see that really what feels so good now will almost certainly end in one of the most painful and miserable experiences of your life. It's not necessarily entirely selfish either, after all, you're the one with emotional problems who will almost invariably end up sabotaging the relationship through no intention of your own. By refusing to nurture such a relationship, aren't you saving both parties the trouble associated with relationship death?

Since he does not believe in love, he does not believe that an entity other than himself can serve his motives. When two people bond they pool both their resources and their goals, he doesn't think you will serve his goals, and he doesn't think he can serve yours. I don't know if he's wrong, I haven't met the fella (or you).

While, given the light that your later posts shines on the current context of your future, I think you should cut the chord, as he is unlikely to improve your life, I don't think you should hate him or start thinking of him as some sort of bad person. He's damaged, but not necessarily in a way that stops him being a good person. He's just not capable of providing for your needs. The portrait you paint of him basically depicts a nomadic musician, you are not going to be able to change the characteristics that underlies not only his relationship style, but his career and social style as well.

 

[MaryJane]

Ok i find this very amusing:

I have called him all week, more than usual, and texted him without getting responses, more than usual all week. I *finally* got a response text last night listing all the reasons why hes been unable to answer me and that he would call me the next day.

I sent a text back- which to me is pretty easily understood -
Saying simply, "im done."

He immediately responds with "with work?" i decide that in a bit he'll get my true meaning and ignore him. Two hours pass. Then he texts "So you are not working tiday?"

Seriously? Is "im done" that vague esp in the context of the freaking non conversation?

Anyway i think im going to just sit here. It doesnt feel so good to be ignored, huh??

God i must really be mad. I think this is what is referred to as the INFJ "doorslam."

 

[Cherry Cola]

I find myself being curious as to what will happen now :O

Just be careful, he hasn't come of as the most stable of individuals. He might blow up completely when things start dawning on him emotionally and reality appears. Even if he acted a douche you might still be very important to him even if he didn't realize it due to being out of touch with his emotions. This could trigger some very irrational behavior from his side.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but meh.

 

[Duxwing]

Ok i find this very amusing:

I have called him all week, more than usual, and texted him without getting responses, more than usual all week. I *finally* got a response text last night listing all the reasons why hes been unable to answer me and that he would call me the next day.

I sent a text back- which to me is pretty easily understood -
Saying simply, "im done."

He immediately responds with "with work?" i decide that in a bit he'll get my true meaning and ignore him. Two hours pass. Then he texts "So you are not working tiday?"

Seriously? Is "im done" that vague esp in the context of the freaking non conversation?

Anyway i think im going to just sit here. It doesnt feel so good to be ignored, huh??

God i must really be mad. I think this is what is referred to as the INFJ "doorslam."

My advice: Send him a break-up e-mail and be done with this mess.

-Duxwing

 

[defghi]

Nothing is more guaranteed to make me stop caring about a person than having them constantly bothering me and trying to make demands on my time. Maybe if I were in a relationship with them... but then again, you guys aren't in a relationship.

Clearly he isn't the right person for someone as needy and prone to rage at silence, aka nothing, as you are.

As a matter of fact, re-reading a bit, he hasn't even been silent- he just hasn't been replying as much as you deem necessary. Did you ever consider the possibility that you are over-communicating, rather than him under-communicating? As far as I can tell he's explained himself- sleeping, stressed out, busy. He even went so far as to give you a list of what he's been doing after the fact. He probably found this repulsive and totally unnecessary, wasn't it self-evident that you were not in his schedule? Do you think he should be morphing his plans and priorities because you decided you need extra attention this week?

Now while I see his position as reasonable, I recognize that it's not reasonable for you, and you have no obligation to put any of your time into him, you are quite welcome to ignore him if you don't wish to speak to him. But that's your choice, it's not because he is being an asshole or a douchebag.

 

[Cherry Cola]

You can't tell that from the posts, you're reading into them. If your take on the situation is correct you're still in the wrong. It's a relationship, if two people don't function together the responsibility is on both of them.

 

[defghi]

You can't tell that from the posts, you're reading into them. If your take on the situation is correct you're still in the wrong. It's a relationship, if two people don't function together the responsibility is on both of them.

Can't tell what, exactly? I've guessed on his mindset a little of course, but the rest is all there. He's responded, he's explained himself, he's had other priorities, she's been constantly messaging/calling him, she's now gone passive-aggressive in, I assume, an attempt to make him dislike her.

My understanding is that they may have a relationship, but they are not in one. They are both responsible for the consequences of their actions, of course, so he has to deal with her ignoring him/ breaking down now, and she'll have to deal with him respecting her less than before. But they don't have to do anything they don't want to. In fact, he's probably refused to say they are in a relationship to avoid the very trap you are trying to lay for him- that he has some sort of obligation to give her attention whenever she demands it.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Oh come on, his pulling close and then pushing away is basically using her emotionally, it's obvious he knows what he's doing, he just wants to keep the cake and eat it to. That's dishonest and mean.

Furthermore:

"He works like 15 hours a week, goes out every night, never invites me, has yet to ask me to come out to wtch him play guitar. "

I don't think that entails the kind of busyness required to justify his actions.
But yeah, the OP ought to send him an email and be done with it rather than do the passive aggressive thing, and was also probably naive in staying with him for so long.

 

[defghi]

Oh come on, his pulling close and then pushing away is basically using her emotionally, it's obvious he knows what he's doing, he just wants to keep the cake and eat it to. That's dishonest and mean.

Furthermore:

"He works like 15 hours a week, goes out every night, never invites me, has yet to ask me to come out to wtch him play guitar. "

I don't think that entails the kind of busyness required to justify his actions.
But yeah, the OP ought to send him an email and be done with it rather than do the passive aggressive thing, and was also probably naive in staying with him for so long.

His description of a perfect relationship = a girl that will understand and respect that she will never be first in his life, his music will. Someone who isnt needy, etc etc.

My impression is that he's consistently and straightforwardly been distant from the start, and been honest about it. She is demanding more cake from him. He wants less cake than her.

We agree, she shouldn't have been with him for so long. I just disagree that this makes him a douchebag or an asshole, it was her mistake.

 

[Amagi82]

You obviously have very different expectations and goals for this relationship, and it's becoming more disparate with time. Suggest you break it off and find somebody who wants the same thing in a relationship.

 

[MaryJane]

When he wants to hang out with me, he is very much like, are you done with X? " 5 hours later, are you done yet? 5 hours later "are you done yet?" but when he has simething to do, usually going out without inviting me, he acts completely defensive if i even hint that id lke to be invited.

Like i said, hes damaged, confused, he likes me but i think hes obsessed with controlling when we spend time together, how long, and what it entails.

That is not fair to me. Plus whoever said ive been cintacting him "constantly" all week, surely as an INTP you would realize that would be very difficult, number one as i work and sleep and eat, and number two, i never saud that. God you sound just like him! Weird. Anyway back on topic, i waited 4 days after we hung out and i had heard nothing after spending 24 hours tigether. Then i texted him (brace yourself) twice in one day. And then once the next day. I called him once on each if these days as well. This is WAY more than my usual number of attempts with only one text response from him, and the first time ive retexted or called after no response.

But hes done it to me and even wouldnt leave my house once when i really had work to do. He kept kissing me for like 5 hours (among other things) and i kept getting uh, distracted. But that did kind if bother me although i am the one who let him stay.

As for him losing respect for me --- hes already lost mine. And sating im done may be borderline PA but im saying its over. I see no point or possibility of having a constructive cinversation with him and i dont want to have a conversation with him. I am done. Im done done done.

 

[DelusiveNinja]

Two people are eating cake. The problem is that X wants more cake than Y and Y is regulating how much cake X gets to eat. How do you solve this problem for X? Tell X to throw the cake away now, and find a new cake where both X and a new Y can eat cake in harmony? Would it be smarter to find a new cake first then throw old cake away or is there a way to get the tyrannic Y to stop regulating the cake? Can you take control and regulate his cake?

 

[MaryJane]

Besides, he thought me talking about an argument i had with my father was a way to make me appear needy and to make him feel he had to take care of me. That accusation blew my mind and hurt my feelings. So im sure i lost his respect a long time ago due to projections like these.

I could list more but ill spare.

 

[MaryJane]

Two people are eating cake. The problem is that X wants more cake than Y and Y is regulating how much cake X gets to eat. How do you solve this problem for X? Tell X to throw the cake away now, and find a new cake where both X and a new Y can eat cake in harmony? Would it be smarter to find a new cake first then throw old cake away or is there a way to get the tyrannic Y to stop regulating the cake? Can you take control and regulate his cake?

Wouldnt the cake stay the same or are you saying it would be different cakes for each couple, like strawberry vs chocolate vs vanilla.

Ok-i would say that IMO, Y, is getting some extra sort of secret cake through the feeling of being pursued by X, me. But im not getting any of that extra cake. Im only getting what he chooses to methodically cut, place on a plate, and feed me bite by bite.

And i think he needs this feeling of control very much. It keeps him from having to feel, which he cannot stand. Plus it keeps me quiet for fear of getting no more cake. At least for 4-5-6 days.

Can i take control? Is that what you are asking? What would that look like? How, if i did, could that possibly be healthy? And wouldnt that make me the tyrant?

 

[TheScornedReflex]

I don't think you should be passive aggressive. That is simply a manipulation technique to give yourself power over him.

You have come to the conclusion you should end it, yes? Then do so.

 

[MaryJane]

Ok one last comment for now. I am dealing with an INTP, but his T came out weak on the MBTI.

So, ive got an INTP with INFP characteristics maybe moreso than the textbook INTP. I really cant imagine what this type would be like. Other than what i know of him.

But: hes obsessed with logic over feelings
Doesnt believe love exists
Says hes never been in love
Says personal interests should always come first because relationships are always short lived and not worth the sacrifice to his interests
Has never kept a friend for more than 5 years and says he cannot even comprehend such a concept
Only had one GF, dated 5 years, he says she cheated on him and he still to this day "hates" her

 

[Cherry Cola]

Yar, do confirm what you meant, that you are done with the relationship. Even if he's a douche that don't make his suffering something good, it still bad, be the bigger man ^^

although in my book you text msg wasn't really that ambiguous, but it probably is to a lot of people

 

[MaryJane]

I don't think you should be passive aggressive. That is simply a manipulation technique to give yourself power over him.

You have come to the conclusion you should end it, yes? Then do so.

Trust me i will get no power out of this. We will simply never talk again.

Again i see no need to have a conversation with him as it will not be constructive.

I think my message was conveyed. At least that im moving on. I have no doubt hes thinking all sorts of judgmental things about me.

I think i took the most logical path (haha now im sounding like him lol).

To me, PA would be if i just never talked to him again and showed up somewhere around him with a guy. What i did was say - im moving on. If it seems PA i think you might be assuming im hoping to get a reaction or a text or a call. I am not. Even if we talked it would not go well based on other convos remotely dealing with emotions.

I think this is best. Moving on.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

I think you have gone about this in a most immature fashion. As long as you are happy with the results, I guess it doesn't matter.