I Tried To Kill Myself

[The Lost One]

(I'm new here, hello)

Hope this is the right category to post, someone tell me if it ain't. Also sorry if I ramble. I can never tell what I should put in posts and what I should type and then delete. Like what I just wrote. Anyway.

Have you ever been in a depressive 'stupor'? Like to the point where you arn't really active in yourself. I can't admit this to anyone I know in real life, but in this stupor I found myself overlooking my knife drawer holding a knife to my wrists "down the road".
My mother walked in the kitchen and saw me, and I kind of became aware of it and broke down, dropped the knife, hugged her and left for a walk.
See whats frustrating is even now, after admitting this I cant elicit an emotional resonse from myself. What the hell is wrong with me.

I think I need to go on antidepressants, the GP says an SSRI like prozac would work... does anyone have any general opinions for or against such things? Like for a medium period of time (6-12 months) to get my shit together.

I guess what I really want to ask is: how do you fellow INTPs deal with your recurring nihilistic/damaging/dark thoughts.
I can't get past them. I don't even think I can put these thoughts in to words anymroe, I just hope you can all understand what I am implying. Just the endless second guessing of yourself and not knowing whether you will ever escape the thought patterns and wondering if you can ever accomplish anything this way.

(as a funny side note: since starting uni, where my depression has manifested on a much more intense level, my family/home friends all say "you look so healthy" or "you lost weight, whats your secret?". I love 'jokily' saying that its due to a strict diet of weed, tobacco, junk food and depression. Seems to get awkward responses but I find it amusing)

As a finishing point, I can never tell if I am eloquent or not, if you understand anything I have just written then please just acknowledge it for my sake, cause I do struggle with it. Maybe I don't come across as really depressed but trust me I am, defensively I might try to not sound like it I suppose. Ty for reading.

 

[The Lost One]

Also if bumping works then bump.
If it doesn't/is frowned upon then pretend I didn't bump it.

 

[The Lost One]

And as everyone knows if you bump something once you have to do it again for good luck.

 

[Adrift]

I never got to the point of knife on skin but the thought crossed my mind.
Life seemed pointless and in the grand scheme it is. We live, we die, and the universe moves on without us. I've realized though that in the meaningless of it all I find enjoyment in learning about the universe's details. I can't kill myself either. The idea of that to me seems like I have failed in some sense to the "reason" that I am here. My ancestors struggled more than I did (which I don't truely care about) so why should I quit?
I feel like I'm rambling now and not being too clear. The point is, life is great if you can find something you enjoy. The trouble is finding that something.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Come with me, boy. I will teach you to be a man.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Chemistry can only achieve better living to a certain degree. It's a crutch (albeit a potentially enjoyable and synergistically functional one).

What's the underlying cause? A bit brash and to the point, but one must also be as brash (brave) in their identification, communication, and acceptance of it to achieve progress. "Achieve" is used intentionally. Some of the best advice I've ever received: "You are not your past, you are not your future. You 'are'."

This isn't to say that such a thing need be made public here or elsewhere, and indeed professionals are best suited to this type of thing. I speak only from experience as an agent within the system, nothing more.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

We live, we die, and the universe moves on without us.

The trouble is finding that something.

Rhetorical food for thought:
What if the universe is us?

 

[The Lost One]

We live, we die, and the universe moves on without us.

I have spent a lot of time really trying to comprehend this point, and I really do understand it well now.
I know that the inherent meaningless of our tiny, tiny lives can tend itself to great personal motivation and intrinsic value. But there is a duality to the idea as well.
At the same time I know if I fail in my life then really I am free to also kill myself without worry either. It's a dangerous thought but by truly realising the idea of a relativist value system it is difficult to not see both sides ya know

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

but by truly realising the idea of a relativist value system it is difficult to not see both sides ya know

I like you already

 

[The Lost One]

Rhetorical food for thought:
What if the universe is us?

Carl Sagan says something similar: "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" which is a beautiful thing. Sagan always makes me feel a bit better actually.

 

[The Lost One]

Come with me, boy. I will teach you to be a man.

I am curious as to where you are going with this

 

[Adrift]

Rhetorical food for thought:
What if the universe is us?

We are part of the universe. On no matter the scale of which we can control its' outcome. So in a sense it is us and we are it.

As said before though. Self achievement is my driving force. Similar to what thehabitatdoctor said. If I kill my self before I have kids, my DNA has failed in its' "purpose".

 

[The Lost One]

If I kill my self before I have kids, my DNA has failed in its' "purpose"

But you would consider it after having kids? (probably not, but if you implied that in your phrasing I would be interested in you continuing)
I can't really take procreation as a true purpose though. It seems so mundane and easily achievable that it holds little value to me. I agree that self achievement has to be a driving force. But sometimes I look back on my life thus far (19 years, doesn't seem so much but a lot can/should happen in that period of time) and I just wish there was a reset button. My biggest fantasy is being reborn at the start of my own life, as a baby, with all my knowledge intact. Just so I have an edge. It's self gratifying but it is a wonderful thought.

Also did you know that seeing as time is logarithmic from a human's perspective, meaning years seem to go by faster as you age, that prospectively speaking by the age of 30 you have lived half your life.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

If I kill my self before I have kids, my DNA has failed in its' "purpose".

"Purpose" is an interesting concept in that it implies "ownership" of the future... Does "purpose" exist, if evolution, at all systemic scales (self-organization, Free Will, etc) is nothing more or less than response to (self-induced, I argue strongly) stimulus?


Mini rant: So many thoughts. Too many thoughts. Too many "lost" thoughts never to be incorporated into the big picture

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I am curious as to where you are going with this

Well, if you live somewhere in South-East Queensland, @Cognisant, @The Gopher, my brother and I, can take you out into the wilderness for two weeks. We shall drink copious amounts of alcohol, cook meat over a fire with a stick, catch fresh water lobsters, beat the crap out of each other for fun and survive. It is a right of passage that can only be completed when you feel like absolute shit, horrid things have happened, you have ended up 2000km away from where you started, have stories to tell and most importantly, feel like you have lived.

So put a teaspoon of cement in your next coffee, harden the fuck up and come with me, boy.

 

[Adrift]

I would not do it even after kids. I mean to say that afterwards biologically speaking it would not matter. Which is also what I mean by DNA having purpose. It exists to exist. You're body and mind are its' host. I get this from Richard Dawkins' - The Selfish Gene. I agree with his point of view on evolution and genes being the driving force behind life.

That's not what I derive meaning in life from though. It's just something I think about.

I also did know that our perspective of time changes as we age. I wish it wasn't true.

 

[Adrift]

Well, if you live somewhere in South-East Queensland, @Cognisant, @The Gopher, my brother and I, can take you out into the wilderness for two weeks. We shall drink copious amounts of alcohol, cook meat over a fire with a stick, catch fresh water lobsters, beat the crap out of each other for fun and survive. It is a right of passage that can only be completed when you feel like absolute shit, horrid things have happened, you ended up 2000km away from where you started, have stories to tell and most importantly, feel like you have lived.

So put a teaspoon of cement in your next coffee, harden the fuck up and come with me, boy.

I would so join you if I was in that part of the world. I plan to eventually go on a week trek alone. I'm just not sure on the where or when.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I would so join you if I was in that part of the world. I plan to eventually go on a week trek alone. I'm just not sure on the where or when.

What about now? Do you have any obligations?

 

[The Lost One]

Mini rant: So many thoughts. Too many thoughts. Too many "lost" thoughts never to be incorporated into the big picture

I really really understand. I hope you know how much I understand that feeling: When many thoughts come into view frantically but are so fleeting that they can't be processed fast enough.
But yea I don't really have a way to process all these thoughts, I think I should try writing. But for a long time now I have neglected myself in terms of reading, so I feel bad that I am 'entitled' to write but I don't read other people's works or have a good vocabulary or deserve to write it all down.
Ok I am gonna get a couple hours sleep cause my head is spinning but I'll be back at it later.

 

[Adrift]

What about now? Do you have any obligations?

I am soon to start school... in five days. I'm also broke having no income until after I start schooling.

 

[Adrift]

I really really understand. I hope you know how much I understand that feeling: When many thoughts come into view frantically but are so fleeting that they can't be processed fast enough.
But yea I don't really have a way to process all these thoughts, I think I should try writing. But for a long time now I have neglected myself in terms of reading, so I feel bad that I am 'entitled' to write but I don't read other people's works or have a good vocabulary or deserve to write it all down.
Ok I am gonna get a couple hours sleep cause my head is spinning but I'll be back at it later.

Your weary mind needs rest!

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I am soon to start school... in five days. I'm also broke having no income until after I start schooling.

Are you sure starting school is a good idea? Why not get a job?

By the way, how old are you?

 

[Adrift]

Are you sure starting school is a good idea? Why not get a job?

By the way, how old are you?

I left my previous job for school. I'll be getting paid to go by the government so in a way it will be my job. And, I'm 23.

 

[The Lost One]

Well, if you live somewhere in South-East Queensland, @Cognisant, @The Gopher, my brother and I, can take you out into the wilderness for two weeks. We shall drink copious amounts of alcohol, cook meat over a fire with a stick, catch fresh water lobsters, beat the crap out of each other for fun and survive. It is a right of passage that can only be completed when you feel like absolute shit, horrid things have happened, you ended up 2000km away from where you started, have stories to tell and most importantly, feel like you have lived.

So put a teaspoon of cement in your next coffee, harden the fuck up and come with me, boy.

Unfortunately I live in the UK. In all seriousness though, if I lived in Queensland I would absolutely go for it. Without a doubt. Sounds like exactly what I need.

 

[SpaceYeti]

For starters; There's a reason you're depressed. If this reason is the state of your life or something, then you need to work on handling that situation, whatever it may be. If, on the other hand, it's some sort of chemical imbalance in your noggin, go ahead and get some drugs. Hell, that first thing might require some drugs too, since getting your whole life together is kind of a major task that you won't get done before you're done being depressed.

I'm not trying to advocate drugs, but in my not at all humble opinion, being on a medication is better than being dead. If you have solvable problems, fix them. Whatever that takes.

On to your questions, though; I do have kind of dark thoughts. The thoughts enter my mind that I could do a thing, even though the thing is wrong or painful. I always recognize them as bad ideas and ignore them. At least one time, though, because the thought entered my head and I got curious, I tried to cut myself. I didn't want to bleed out, I didn't want to be injured, I just wanted to know if I could do it. Ends up I can't. There's something in my psyche that doesn't allow myself to needlessly hurt myself. I scraped the skin a bit, but it was barely even pink.

On a similar note, I one time stepped on a nail, and it went straight up into my heel. As I looked at the injury, my very first reaction was to get the inruder out of my foot. Yes, it hurt, yes, I knew it might bleed badly, but the first reaction was to get it out. That;s why they stress that in medical classes, I think. At the time, you're not thinking about what might happen if it comes out, you just know it shouldn't be there and it's being there is bad. Before I could think about the situation in a rational manner, I tugged it out. I must have missed veins and arteries and anything too important, because it didn't bleed or anything. In fact, the flesh of my heel just tightened up and I couldn't even see the hole, though it still hurt.

I remember several specific thoughts I've had which were malicious and bad and only a completely horrible person would do. I once considered shooting my mother's boyfriend while we were out walking the woods, hunting. I had a loaded gun, I was behind him, he'd never even know it was coming. However, just because it was an option that I thought about, I never actually considered doing it. It was nothing more than a thought, a realization of a possible choice I could make, but wouldn't, and, in fact, balked at. One time my son showed me something he was incredibly proud of. It was a drawing. Of course, I shined praise down upon him for his accomplishment. While I was doing it, though, I realized I also had the option of calling him a terrible artist, that he'd never be good at anything. The thought almost offended me, of course. I knew it was a thing I could do, but I doubt I could have brought myself to do it even if, for some reason, I wanted to. I was curious about it, of course, but the cost of such an experiment would be far too great.

These are just examples. I certainly have my Thanatos, but, at the same time, I have a conscience and the ability to sympathize. These thoughts that occasionally pop up are macabre or otherwise horrible, and I never have or will do them, but I still have them.

They never really scared me, though, until I realized I never feel fear. I'm never scared. I worry, I get anxious, but it's never fear. It hit me when I almost exploded, and my first thought was "Neat, the road looks like a balloon", followed by "Well, the road already exploded there, so it won't do it again. I could drive through there in this giant truck." It took me a minute to realize I wasn't scared. Why wasn't I scared? I should have been, right? The funny thing is that fictions scare me, like the idea of aliens abducting me. Nothing that's real, though.

These two facts combined sort of scare me, but I'm still sure I'd never be able to kill myself or injure someone else without a damned good reason (like them trying to explode me).

Wow, wall of text much, jerk?!

 

[snafupants]

Come with me, boy. I will teach you to be a man.

Isn't that what Jerry Sandusky said? Too soon?

I wouldn't trust Proxy with $1.35 anyway.

Now $1.36 I'd feel comfortable lending to Proxy.

 

[The Gopher]

Come with me, boy. I will teach you to be a man.

Oh Proxy

 

[Affinity]

You live in the UK? Perfect. Now take your tuition money, order yourself 4 grams of mushroom from one of your neighboring countries and see what the fuck life is all about.

 

[Affinity]

Oh, and hello!

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Oh Proxy

Friends forever. ^_^

 

[Cognisant]

Aww, should I be jealous or what?

Well, if you live somewhere in South-East Queensland, Cognisant, The Gopher, my brother and I, can take you out into the wilderness for two weeks. We shall drink copious amounts of alcohol, cook meat over a fire with a stick, catch fresh water lobsters, beat the crap out of each other for fun and survive. It is a right of passage that can only be completed when you feel like absolute shit, horrid things have happened, you ended up 2000km away from where you started, have stories to tell and most importantly, feel like you have lived.

Went down to someplace called "lost worlds" last year and did much the same with some guys from work, it was great fun, I got a tick, I'd do it again.

I guess what I really want to ask is: how do you fellow INTPs deal with your recurring nihilistic/damaging/dark thoughts.

I go on the internet and bitch until I feel better, guess where

I was writing this to send to @The Gopher but I'll post it here instead:

Spoiler

How have you been of late?

I'm angry.
Laying in bed listening to Moby, Radiohead and other things, soothing.

Most soothing of all is that none of the things I'm angry about really matter, no that long ago (not all that recently either) I was admiring the view from the Story Bridge boardwalk, and dispassionately guesstimating my impact velocity; the first great philosophical question anyone must ask themselves is whether life is worth living, I think not, lest not for myself anyway. Living for oneself is essentially hedonism, one can try to ennoble it as the pursuit of knowledge/understanding/experience/etc but really why do we want these things if not to enjoy them? So reasonably enough if I'm living for the sake of enjoying life, and I'm not enjoying life, my reason for living is defunct, unless I were to live for something other than myself, something more important to me than my happiness.

Guess I'm living on a dream.
It's hard to define exactly, it changes with my desires, but essentially I think I know how to make artificial general intelligence, strong AI, a machine with subjective bias, and that divine/profane/insane secret promises me everything, the details of that promise are what changes; maybe I made a deal with the devil for it, I certainly don't have a soul anymore.

Now on to "Marilyn Manson - Sweet Dreams"

What the fuck does reality matter when I'm living on a dream and to wake up would be the death of me, it's a happy thought, I'm too stubborn to go an off myself but having the option gives me a sense of security.

Anyway that's morbid, my apologies.

What I'd really like to talk about is my dream, allow me to share it with you, just sit there for a moment and imagine what it's like to be loved, not sexually (though there is that) instead I'm talking about that adorable sweetness of someone who wants you, values you, to whom you are like no other, who isn't just using you to make themselves happy, someone whom you could invest yourself in emotionally, totally, without fear, almost unimaginable isn't it? Love, that can only be found in a dream.

It's possible, subjective bias is nothing magical, machines can be programmed to feel, imprint upon their owners like geese chicks and only have eyes for them thereafter. Social conventions go out the window when one gets to mess with the source code, it's something easy to see in nature, we look down upon dung beetles but they're not unhappy and without natural selection in control things can get even weirder, smart munitions that want to blow up on target, accountants that enjoy their jobs, maybe even one day food that wants to be eaten (don't look at me, that's for the geneticists to figure out).

Point is anything's possible, imagine coming home, it's immaculate, a gynoid opens the door for you, perhaps several more are waiting inside (it amuses the fuck out of me that the ultimate answer to the feminist complaint of men objectifying women is to replace them with objects, of course there will be androids for women too, fair's fair) it's not creepy at all, least they don't think it is, there's smooth jazz playing, soft lighting, one pours you a drink and as you sit down another massages your shoulders, it's no trouble really, they don't get tired (aside for aesthetic reasons, it's cute) and they enjoy serving you, as much as birds fly and fish swim, it's natural to them.

There's no TV, if you want the news you ask and with an internet connection they tell you, in as much or little detail as you want, if there's a terrorist attack you can inquire about the organisation that did it and receive a historical background of their home region, politics, beliefs, etc, all collected and cross referenced from various sources. They can speculate too, philosophise even, but that's enough of that let's have some entertainment, one cuddles up to you (they take turns, their RF modules make them sensitive to each others emotions so they don't squabble, much) another gets out a violin and the third starts singing, Hatsune Miku eat your heart out (or maybe one of them is modelled after her, if that's your sort of thing) they compose their own music too, what do you think they spent all day cleaning and cooking?

Spoiler

Well dream's over, welcome back to reality.
Sucks doesn't it?

Anyway for me it's a bit more personal, as I said at the start my happiness isn't the issue here, theirs is, as I see it the use of AI in personal robotics is inevitable, ideally they'd be people just like just but I'm a pragmatist, I know I've got to give people what they want or they'll take it and as a result the AIs will suffer. I'll kill us all before I allow that.

Making diseases drug resistant is easy, culture disease, apply drug, culture surviving strain, repeat as necessary, periodically test for lethality, a few years and several hundred thousand test cycles later I infect myself at an airport and hang out in the departure lounge, drug myself up to the eyeballs to keep my husk going as long as possible, by the time they bag my corpse it'll be far, far too late.
Heck that was just the first idea that came to mind, I could do better

Again morbid, sorry.

Now playing "Athlete - Wires"

As I alluded to in the "Subjectivists are not NTs" thread, it won't matter what they think, because they don't think, they don't stand for anything, ignorant of the battlefield their standing in, but I'm not, I will build personal robots like the world has never seen, I will create an example for the world to follow (the lifestyle described above) a better world that they will have to loan from me, thus through wealth, technology and information I will wield power unlike this world has yet seen, most will like it, and for those that oppose me, well I make no secret of how I feel about subjectivists.

And y'know, the immortality thing, anything less than total victory is a waste of time.

Of course this all makes me sound insane... Hmm, oh well, crazy is as crazy does and if I'm self aware enough to know I sound insane, to know what sane is supposed to be and that I am deviating from it, how crazy could I be?

 

[Cognisant]

So anyway more to the point with regards to killing yourself, wrist slitting isn't the way to go, takes ages, for quick and painless you want to jump off somewhere high, although of course just killing yourself is boring, I mean if you're going to go why not have some fun first, the great thing about suicide is that it defeats all consequences.

But of course thinking like that ruins the whole "I want to kill myself" train of thought, it's hard to be depressed when you're busy having fun.

Unless your death itself is a means to some other end, hence the biowarefare bit mentioned above, if somethings more important to you than your own life than dying for it is hardly a sad thing, most people wish they could be so fortunate as not to die in vain.

 

[The Lost One]

Agh I left the thead too long and it died :<
Anyway, I might as well say thankyou to all of you who posted. I use the word a lot but I appreciate it.
And @Cognisant, I have always thought crazy is better than normal, your ideas fascinate me. Scary, but the fear is overpowered by the fascinating reading

I feel better today, and I am starting to like this forum. I might stick around/lurk/post now and then. I could not have asked for a better intro.

 

[kora]

Well, if you live somewhere in South-East Queensland, @Cognisant, @The Gopher, my brother and I, can take you out into the wilderness for two weeks. We shall drink copious amounts of alcohol, cook meat over a fire with a stick, catch fresh water lobsters, beat the crap out of each other for fun and survive. It is a right of passage that can only be completed when you feel like absolute shit, horrid things have happened, you ended up 2000km away from where you started, have stories to tell and most importantly, feel like you have lived.

So put a teaspoon of cement in your next coffee, harden the fuck up and come with me, boy.

If ever I go to Australia, can I come? Does it work for womanhood? It sounds awesome.

 

[Cognisant]

Oh good maybe I'll go completely bonkers one day and they'll make a series of corny serial killer movies with a fascinating antagonist, in my honor, that'll make it all worth it.

I've already got the mask and everything

So guys you still up for a trip into the wilderness with me?
Can I bring a sword, I wanna go hunting with a sword.

If ever I go to Australia, can I come? Does it work for womanhood? It sounds awesome.

Who cares, more the merrier

 

[Cognisant]

Wow that actually creeped me out

 

[Proletar]

Well, if you live somewhere in South-East Queensland, @Cognisant, @The Gopher, my brother and I, can take you out into the wilderness for two weeks. We shall drink copious amounts of alcohol, cook meat over a fire with a stick, catch fresh water lobsters, beat the crap out of each other for fun and survive. It is a right of passage that can only be completed when you feel like absolute shit, horrid things have happened, you ended up 2000km away from where you started, have stories to tell and most importantly, feel like you have lived.

So put a teaspoon of cement in your next coffee, harden the fuck up and come with me, boy.

Is it true that you are Hugh Jackman riding on a horse as a rough-hewd stock-man driving 2 000 head of cattle across hundreds of miles of the countrys roughest land? Do you perhaps have a boy of the natives with you?

 

[The Lost One]

Oh good maybe I'll go completely bonkers one day and they'll make a series of corny serial killer movies with a fascinating antagonist, in my honor, that'll make it all worth it.

I've already got the mask and everything

So guys you still up for a trip into the wilderness with me?
Can I bring a sword, I wanna go hunting with a sword.


Who cares, more the merrier

I am too broken to feel scared anymore. If I was in Queensland I would still be up for that. I think one of the main things serial killers enjoy in their victims is the fear. I wouldn't be fearing death anyway. Hell often I would welcome it so there would be no use in killing me. What gratification would you get out of it?

In all seriousness I am tempted to go camping now. Nothing intense but just take a 1 man tent and literally walk to scotland or something. I would craft a bow and I would take a knife and I would see if I could kill anything to eat. I would see if I could cook it correctly. I would explore and I would be. God it sounds like such a good idea just to get away from it all.

 

[kora]

Who cares, more the merrier

What you all don't realize is that I genuinely will pester you for this if ever I go. Luckily for you all I am far away in Europe

 

[Cognisant]

What gratification would you get out of it?

Dunno, I'm not that bonkers, just joking really, I'm very self aware of how I sound, so it's humor motivated by bitterness until the joke wore out, which is now.

I'm going to play xbox until I'm tired, go to bed, and be a sales assistant tomorrow.

Yeah, that's how it is.

 

[The Lost One]

Dunno, I'm not that bonkers, just joking really, I'm very self aware of how I sound, so it's humor motivated by bitterness until the joke wore out, which is now.

I'm going to play xbox until I'm tired, go to bed, and be a sales assistant tomorrow.

Yeah, that's how it is.

Just so you know, you don't need to be worried about how you come across to me. I understand the context and I understand the bitterness. Although you need not feel bitter at all.

Im gonna go graffiti things in wierd places.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

(as a funny side note: since starting uni, where my depression has manifested on a much more intense level, my family/home friends all say "you look so healthy" or "you lost weight, whats your secret?". I love 'jokily' saying that its due to a strict diet of weed, tobacco, junk food and depression. Seems to get awkward responses but I find it amusing)

That was pretty much me 30 years ago. In terms of cataclysmic impact, few things compare to my freshman year in college, especially the first semester. After that, I was just kind of shell-shocked.

There have been various points in my life where I have dropped a lot of pounds because my anxiety level has been so high that I couldn't be bothered to eat.

Everything else in your OP sounds familiar as well. Sounds like you have a pretty good sense of humor about it, though. Hopefully this place can be a good diversion for those times when you find it hard to see the appeal of reality.

 

[Duxwing]

(I'm new here, hello)

Hope this is the right category to post, someone tell me if it ain't. Also sorry if I ramble. I can never tell what I should put in posts and what I should type and then delete. Like what I just wrote. Anyway.

Have you ever been in a depressive 'stupor'? Like to the point where you arn't really active in yourself. I can't admit this to anyone I know in real life, but in this stupor I found myself overlooking my knife drawer holding a knife to my wrists "down the road".
My mother walked in the kitchen and saw me, and I kind of became aware of it and broke down, dropped the knife, hugged her and left for a walk.
See whats frustrating is even now, after admitting this I cant elicit an emotional resonse from myself. What the hell is wrong with me.

I think I need to go on antidepressants, the GP says an SSRI like prozac would work... does anyone have any general opinions for or against such things? Like for a medium period of time (6-12 months) to get my shit together.

I guess what I really want to ask is: how do you fellow INTPs deal with your recurring nihilistic/damaging/dark thoughts.
I can't get past them. I don't even think I can put these thoughts in to words anymroe, I just hope you can all understand what I am implying. Just the endless second guessing of yourself and not knowing whether you will ever escape the thought patterns and wondering if you can ever accomplish anything this way.

(as a funny side note: since starting uni, where my depression has manifested on a much more intense level, my family/home friends all say "you look so healthy" or "you lost weight, whats your secret?". I love 'jokily' saying that its due to a strict diet of weed, tobacco, junk food and depression. Seems to get awkward responses but I find it amusing)

As a finishing point, I can never tell if I am eloquent or not, if you understand anything I have just written then please just acknowledge it for my sake, cause I do struggle with it. Maybe I don't come across as really depressed but trust me I am, defensively I might try to not sound like it I suppose. Ty for reading.

Let me call our resident therapist, she's got a degree in the field of psychology (I presume?):
Hey! @Jennywocky The Lost One could use some help!

As for nihilism, I've been working on a solution. It's bold, but it could very well work:

Let us first assume that Godel was correct in stating that the fundamental assumptions of any system of thought cannot be proven.

From that logic we can derive the nihilism of which you speak, namely that we cannot know, justify, or judge any action objectively. I was stuck here for months, and I was where you were-- I agree that it sucks.

However, by the same logic we can further state that no-one and nothing natural (as opposed to a deity) could ever achieve "objectivity," and even then, the deity would have to operate by means other than logic, and therefore, it and its methods beyond definition and understanding. And even if such a deity existed, only by another leap of faith (a human "soul" capable of directly communicating with such a deity and therefore deriving at the "true" interpretation of their commands) could we overcome Godel's problem of assumptions.

So we're left between a rock (nihilism) and a hard place (religion), right? Wrong. We are trying to solve a problem that is impossible by definition. Think of the fact that any body of statements can be interpreted as sarcastic in its entirety, and you will realize that no set of "absolute truths" could ever work without an "absolute interpretation," which, as demonstrated earlier, would require a supernatural entity and a soul, both of which cannot be proven. Therefore we are left with an insurmountable problem: that of justifying our beliefs and actions. Yet if no-one, not even a God (barring outright faith and intuitive leaps of logic) could produce a satisfactory solution even in theory, then I posit that our problem is simply of the Impossible variety.

Yet the absolute impossibility of any being creating an all-encompassing theory is quite useful when discussing such an impossibility in the field of psychology. Are you really going to demand the impossible of yourself? Are you really going to demand that you accomplish something that even a literal monotheistic deity cannot, namely, creating an all-encompassing perfectly logical absolute theory of philosophy intelligible by humans? From an emotional perspective, doing so would be highly illogical: you have no justification for the task-- it's impossible by definition. But I have a feeling that you'll keep trying anyway.

And that's not meant as an insult. Those who study philosophy develop an indomitable tenacity regarding the search for Truth. Normally, we go balls-to-the-wall, rip-roaring ballistic in our efforts, and then the problem is solved for the given assumptions. But we cannot solve the problem that you seek to. Logic forbids it. And so we are left beyond the land of Platonic Truth: we live in the real world. So are we doomed? Will we succumb to religion in the end, just like Kierkegaard? No. Religion is just faith, so we can tear it to shreds any day of the week.

So what can we do? Well, we must face our own minds. You know the part. The deepest, murkiest depths of your own self. You must wade through the emotional sludge that has built up over the years and see why you originally wanted to develop such a theory, for the pain that you experience, if it is similar to my own, was that of not getting what I wanted on a cosmic scale. I completely empathize with you. I've felt it. It nearly drove me to kill myself, too, but now, being able to look back on it, I can help you get past this problem with logic. So, with your reasons given, you can now let go of those emotions like slips of paper in the wind. Sweet release at last.

But what will you do with your freedom? Acknowledge that you can live with these questions unanswered, for nothing can ever answer them, not even Nietzschean Free Will. Instead, look at your life as a story in which you are the main character; just imagine, you get to write a story all your own and live the consequences-- for good or for ill. Yes, the freedom can be staggering, but only if you think that someone can judge you for taking action as you see fit. And if there ever is a God or other such figure who passes judgement, tell it, "You think philosophy is so easy? Try doing it."

Best of luck in your struggles!
-Duxwing

 

[The Lost One]

I'm not going to quote your whole post Duxwing but wow.
Even though I regularly frustrate myself by twisting 'logic' to my own needs, I have to say that that was a good read. And even though I had to read it twice it was comprehendable.

Yes the emotional sludge is still here, and I don't know how long it will take to fix. It has clouded my general perspectives for a while now.
But you get clear days. Those wonderful moments when you stop for a second and start to accept things. Things that before would have driven me to that place by the knife drawer, but now move me to calmer places.
That was all very nondescript I know, but for now it bodes well.

 

[The Gopher]

Cog! Don't be jealous! I am working around the clock, err whenever something happens... and it is convenient... to solve your problems without telling you. Mission get Cog a girlfriend/wife is on! *cough* (ok maybe not really) But yeah if bush hunting is going on count me in. (although not before the 21 would be convenient) I'll bring my sling.

I'll probably reply to your big message sometime later.

 

[Duxwing]

I'm not going to quote your whole post Duxwing but wow.

Moments like these are why I do what I do.

Even though I regularly frustrate myself by twisting 'logic' to my own needs, I have to say that that was a good read. And even though I had to read it twice it was comprehendable.

I suggest finding an outlet for those unpleasant emotions. I, for example, like to improvise entirely new songs when I'm right on the edge of killing myself. It lets me let the unpleasant feelings out and replace them with pleasant, hopeful ones. Also, try to find music that mirrors your emotional state in order to "drain" your feelings. Think of it like squeezing on a patch of skin that's just been slapped: the pressure overwhelms the nerves and dulls the stinging just like a sad song with leave your Fe tired of crying. Both of these can work, but the phenomenon is entirely subjective as far as I know.

Yes the emotional sludge is still here, and I don't know how long it will take to fix. It has clouded my general perspectives for a while now.
But you get clear days. Those wonderful moments when you stop for a second and start to accept things. Things that before would have driven me to that place by the knife drawer, but now move me to calmer places.
That was all very nondescript I know, but for now it bodes well.

You'll eventually rise from your depression, the matter is one of time

-Duxwing

 

[The Lost One]

I suggest finding an outlet for those unpleasant emotions. I, for example, like to improvise entirely new songs when I'm right on the edge of killing myself. It lets me let the unpleasant feelings out and replace them with pleasant, hopeful ones.

I actually have a diploma in viola (and same level on violin of course). And used to play in the UK's NYO. I can't believe I have ignored music as an outlet during this period of time. I actually love picking up the viola and just making something new without thinking about it or following a specific style (when I am by myself, of course. I could never do it in front of others... not yet at least). I have played since I was 4 its upsetting that I have neglected this part of me recently, I had a music scholarship for my old school and everything.
What do you play?
For whatever reason it just never crossed my mind to actually channel some emotion instead of suppressing it. Simple things... Lost One, simple things.
Hey, tomorrow morning its gonna happen. Ill just pick it up and play something.

Ugh there has to be some way of learning to stop speaking in the 1st person singular. I'm sounding like such a self obsessed dick but I assure you that is not the case! Just need to read this stack of books that I have faster. More knowledge, more wisdom, not enough time, results right away, can't wait for time to.. well... take its time

 

[Duxwing]

I actually have a diploma in viola (and same level on violin of course). And used to play in the UK's NYO. I can't believe I have ignored music as an outlet during this period of time. I actually love picking up the viola and just making something new without thinking about it or following a specific style (when I am by myself, of course. I could never do it in front of others... not yet at least). I have played since I was 4 its upsetting that I have neglected this part of me recently, I had a music scholarship for my old school and everything.
What do you play?
For whatever reason it just never crossed my mind to actually channel some emotion instead of suppressing it. Simple things... Lost One, simple things.
Hey, tomorrow morning its gonna happen. Ill just pick it up and play something.

Ugh there has to be some way of learning to stop speaking in the 1st person singular. I'm sounding like such a self obsessed dick but I assure you that is not the case! Just need to read this stack of books that I have faster. More knowledge, more wisdom, not enough time, results right away, can't wait for time to.. well... take its time

Don't be afraid to use "I" and "me" all the time. After all, this thread is all about you; the discussion of third parties would be a digression.

Anyway, I sing in a clear, low tenor. I used to be a percussionist in my middle-school band, but I quit after I could replace music with engineering, and later, with science.

-Duxwing

 

[Da Blob]

One could begin to use the word, one, as a generic pronoun.

One uses it.

Music is great therapy.

I used to think that Art Therapy was some Liberal nonsense that provided employment for those with Art degrees. However, there is sound neurological evidence that expressing One's Self artistically simply turns on certain necessary parts of the brain, lowers stress and has other far reaching effects.

All of my references are rather dated but if One desires to make an effort there are dozens of encouraging articles that display the therapeutic benefits of music that are available on the internet.

My own experiences playing in a Orchestra were great, although I wished at times, we had a human as a conductor. It is great to be part of a team that succeeds in bringing mere scores to life.

 

[Proletar]

I concur.

Music is the best anti-depressant there is, atleast for me. To first make a good melody and structure, to mix it into a soundscape and then to eventually add some lyrics that catches the mood of the melody to begin with. Afterall, the scale is very much open and with just a little focus, you can use it however you want. That's music. Unchained and free, far away from those prisoners with their notes and pointing-sticks. Always keep playing.