I am the α and the Ω

[Faux Pas]

*Ahem*

This is a first for me- never before have I ever felt the need to announce my presence in a forum. Really, I would be wrought with uneasiness should I just begin posting (Could it be... I’m actually bothering to make a good first impression for myself before joining your little social circles!?). Now, as most introductions go, I am obliged to divulging personal details about myself for you to peg to my name, but, I would hold back on those for now. Rather than me just treating one thread as an outlook into my being, I’ll instead opt for a more dynamic one- one that spans my entire stint on this forum and happens every time I post. Although it may not be any more accurate in letting you know about me, at least it panders to my laziness.

I’ll keep it short for now, so well…

Here I am! (Let’s all be friends and play nice, no?)

 

[Anthile]

 

[Words]

There is no circle, what are you babbling about?

Excellent hat.

 

[Faux Pas]

Ever eager to welcome new folks, huh?

Hi~​

 

[Faux Pas]

Bah. You beat me to a reply... but... I could have sworn there were...

And thanks. Your hat is not too bad either, from my perspective, at least.

 

[Words]

Do not worry, your act, by your name, is common here.

I have to be honest. In here, the number of posts matters more than their quality. You should be thankful.

Critical and Evasive Edits.

 

[Faux Pas]

I will bear that in mind then.

In my defense, it slipped my mind that there was an edit button at all, I seldom post in any forums at all, you see. My hastiness will be kept in check now, worry not.

 

[Words]

You're not going to keep this clever font?

 

[Faux Pas]

I am afraid not. That probably is the end of that.

While it is a font style I would use elsewhere, I realized it appeared much too jarring here, even for my tastes.

Conformity is best. There is a reason everybody does what they do.

 

[y4r5xeym5]

Your mentioning of big omega has all of my discrete mathematics flooding back to my head.

Welcome aboard, and be wary of the ninjas.

 

[Minuend]

Welcome! Be aware of the alligators in the moat, they aren't fed very often. *Pushes Words off bridge and watch the alligators devour him* Fascinating how they bite, isn't it?

 

[Words]

Faux Pas. I 2 believe in the importance of conformity. I also believe in individuality, rebellion, and a mix of this and that. Perhaps everything has its uses?

Anyhow, as conformity dictates(perhaps), welcome.

Free yourself from yourself, you don't have to have the quality of any standard.

*Pushes Words off bridge and watch the alligators devour him*

They are a part of me, as I am a part of them.

 

[Tyria]

Welcome Faux Pas. Are there any other reasons (besides what has been stated) that you don't post often in forums?

 

[Cavallier]

*Pokes Word's remains* I prefer quality over quantity you ninny.

I think I'll go back to my old Georgia font for a while. I miss that font. Now, I wonder where Chimera "Bringing color to INTPForum since 2008" has gotten to?

As for the Tyki Mikk look alike: Well. Come.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

After googling 'Tyki Mikk' I found this.

Spoiler

Needless to say, I was very pleased.

I’m actually bothering to make a good first impression for myself before joining your little social circles!?

You've done very well from my perspective. Although it may just be that I'm enamored with your avatar.

I welcome you regardless.

 

[Mello]

Welcome. Don't eat the cake.

 

[Crazythinker1]

Welcome.

 

[Faux Pas]

y4r5xeym5,


Admittedly, mathematics was the last thing on my mind when I came up with the thread title.

“I am the α and the Ω”, or in other words, “I am the first and the last”.

What I had in mind was this: I, being the creator of this thread, am the first poster of it. With any luck, my deadbeat conversational skills would allow me to be the last as well, and the thread title will have actual relevance with me being the “first” and the “last”.

But really, I was just playing around with ASCII codes when I stumbled across that and decided to use it.

Anyway, a word of thanks for your welcome



Minuend,


More fascinating is how Words screams (no animosity to Words, of course).

Anyway, a word of thanks for your welcome



Words,


That is a given.

My general views on the matter echo yours to a tee. Everything does have its uses one way or another (Our expectations of something grant it it’s “use”). If a concept or object appears useless, it is only because it pales in comparison to another that fulfils a similar function or that we are expecting it to achieve a task it simply cannot do.

In short, usefulness is relative to our expectations of an object or concept.

With regards to conformism, I would only adhere to the collective will of the majority if it compatible with my interests in some way. Do note that if I appear to conform… it is but a mere coincidence and nothing more. In this case, I happen to like the default font over the one I would normally use- my apparent conformism is more so due to practicality. Perhaps I would prefer one of the other fonts if my whims lean towards such.

Anyway, a few words of thanks (you did reply more than once) for your welcome.



Tyria,


I believe I speak for the 2000- strong community of lurkers when I blame it on nagging insecurities that had a stranglehold over me.

I set unreasonably high standards for myself; it matters not if someone praises or compliments me. To me, what matters most if what I perceive of my own accomplishments(?).

Sigh… I am ashamed I even let such trivialities consume me.


Anyway, a word of thanks for your welcome



Now, I feel a tad bit guilty for bunching the rest of together, but thank you all for your being so forthcoming with your welcomes.

 

[Words]

Everything does have its uses one way or another (Our expectations of something grant it it’s “use”). If a concept or object appears useless, it is only because it pales in comparison to another that fulfils a similar function or that we are expecting it to achieve a task it simply cannot do.

In short, usefulness is relative to our expectations of an object or concept.

Do you think it's impossible for something to exist with no use? That worth relies on those with perception? But what if there's no one to perceive a thing's worth?

 

[cheese]

I believe I speak for the 2000- strong community of lurkers when I blame it on nagging insecurities that had a stranglehold over me.

It's kind of creepy, thinking of two thousand pairs of eyes gazing longingly at our forum, and two thousand clammy pairs of hands slowly moving to the ecstasy of our words.

(I think I won this round; drinks on me tonight.)

 

[Melkor]

Bah, lurker with a God complex, so whats new!?

It's kind of creepy, thinking of two thousand pairs of eyes gazing longingly at our forum, and two thousand clammy pairs of hands slowly moving to the ecstasy of our words.

Again, God complex, just think, being omnipresent must give God plenty of room for voyeurism, hell, anytime you've EVER done ANYTHING he's been right there, watching.... and loving it, because he LOVES us all.



(Checkmate, I should think, dear cheese)

Ah...we have a new guy(/girl?), I suppose I should..erm...

*strolls over and finds and very interesting patch of ceiling near Faux Pas' head*


Yes...ahem...well....

Uh...hello ceiling...

I'm Melkor...I'm the law around here...I get to the bottom of things, before they get to the bottom of me...and...oh....hey..

Is that moss up there?

ooooooooohhh.

I do so much love moss.

*Hands Faux a bloody pocket knife and then, before (s)he can comprehend the situation, jumps onto hir back, and then shoulders, in an attempt to investigate the nearby moss growth*

Tell me then, Faux Pas, are you a stunning new etiquette or a Faux amis?

 

[cheese]

Bah, lurker with a God complex, so whats new!?



Again, God complex, just think, being omnipresent must give God plenty of room for voyeurism, hell, anytime you've EVER done ANYTHING he's been right there, watching.... and loving it, because he LOVES us all.



(Checkmate, I should think, dear cheese)

God's omnipresence was invented as a device for conveniently repressing sexuality in order to stimulate (innuendo) the porn industry.

Ah...we have a new guy(/girl?)

I get to the bottom of things, before they get to the bottom of me

Is that moss up there?

ooooooooohhh.

I do so much love moss.

*before (s)he can comprehend the situation, jumps onto hir back, and then shoulders, in an attempt to investigate the nearby moss growth*

Melkor is aspiring to divine lurker status.

 

[Melkor]

Divine Lurker?

That sounds like a cross between a priest and a rapist.

My-my, that sounds both excellent and scarily familiar.

So Cheese, I would watch your back, or your front, or any side of you which has a large orifice.

(Sorry cheesey, I just don't sit and roll over that easy)

 

[cheese]

As I recall, my last encounter with you left me with a minefield of a back - post little innocent kiddies skipping along it, unawares.

(That's alright, I prefer the subduing process anyway.)

 

[Melkor]

What you do with little kiddies is your own busines entirely dear Cheese, but as a good citizen I must report it to the appropriate authorities.

(And then commit a horrible crime so we get put in the same cell...muhahahha, in prison there is no escape!)

 

[Faux Pas]

Ahh. So much work to do.

Cheese,

I am growing fond of our resident lurkers.

They have provided a new little distraction from the drab reality of my dull existence. You see, they have led me to pick what I would consider to be a slightly unhealthy hobby…

I take delight in stalking the stalkers.

Melkor,

♂ or ♀?

Your pick.

I am flexible, and since you already appear to associate me with some semblance of a gender identity, I’ll leave that thought fester on its own for now.

When in doubt (and to whoever it applies to), I do not mind being referred to as “it”. I like the bestial connotations of “it”.

Words,

Utility is function given meaning. And I consider there to be no absolute meanings; we accredit meaning to an object or activity to keep ourselves sane. It grows into a habit (or is it innate?), and though I may want to, I cannot isolate myself from deriving meanings.

Objects/Concepts/Activities still are able to perform functions with or without sentient beings, only that there is no one (or nothing) to recognize meanings in those functions.

Is there anything without use? I have yet to encounter any. If something is useless, we are merely expecting it to fulfill a function it cannot, or does a worse job at doing so compared to a substitute.



Some words of closing:


I must admit I am enjoying my time here thus far. Now, if only I could be less busy, or at least, cease deluding myself that I really am that busy, so I would actually post beyond the replies that etiquette dictates I do.

 

[cheese]

Now, if only I could be less busy, or at least, cease deluding myself that I really am that busy, so I would actually post beyond the replies that etiquette dictates I do.

INTP FAUX PAS ALERT! SEAL OFF ALL ORIFICES, NOW NOW NOW!


Melly darling, I look forward to merging cells with you and creating a whole new breed of imprisonment.

 

[Melkor]

Sure, we can gang rape people in the showers, only without touching them!

Bwaha! How aggressive is that!

Though Cheese, I'm afraid you'll have to be the bitch, you have at least three more orifices than me, those just being the ones I've explored.
I'm sure you have more hidden.

When in doubt (and to whoever it applies to), I do not mind being referred to as “it”. I like the bestial connotations of “it”.

Oh?

Grrrr..
I like this thing already.

 

[Words]

Utility is function given meaning. And I consider there to be no absolute meanings; we accredit meaning to an object or activity to keep ourselves sane. It grows into a habit (or is it innate?), and though I may want to, I cannot isolate myself from deriving meanings.

What if there's only one perceiver? Would absolute meaning exist?

Objects/Concepts/Activities still are able to perform functions with or without sentient beings, only that there is no one (or nothing) to recognize meanings in those functions.

But how is function related to worth? Isn't worth entirely dependent on the subject? Dependent on recognition?

 

[Faux Pas]

Words,

What if there's only one perceiver? Would absolute meaning exist?

Is that one perceiver’s perception subject to change? If not, is the perceived meaning still absolute after that one perceiver is gone? The meaning would only be “absolute” within “relative” boundaries then, if the meaning is lost once the sole perceiver is gone or has to be made by that perceiver.

Meaning is subjective.

But how is function related to worth? Isn't worth entirely dependent on the subject? Dependent on recognition?


Function is recognized for its value or worth (a positive meaning relative to the perceiver) by the perceiver. And so, there has to be an interaction between the subject and function involved before meaning can be given. Something must be there to begin with for it to be recognized and given meaning.

 

[Words]

Meaning is subjective.

Could all things---not only meaning---be possibly objective? That's If perhaps the lone perceiver is forever and unchanging?

 

[Faux Pas]

Words,

Assuming the lone perceiver to be forever and unchanging, is it not so that the perceiver's perception of a meaning still remain personal to that perceiver? Meaning would still be relative, in that case, if the perceiver cannot manifest meaning into objective existence (?).

Is that even possible?

 

[Words]

Words,

Assuming the lone perceiver to be forever and unchanging, is it not so that the perceiver's perception of a meaning still remain personal to that perceiver? Meaning would still be relative, in that case, if the perceiver cannot manifest meaning into objective existence (?).

There is no other "personal view" to be relative to, so why not?

Is that even possible?

Is there counter-evidence against it?

 

[Faux Pas]

Words,

Meaning would still be relative to the perceiver’s ability to perceive. The object or concept given meaning would still not have absolute meaning (intrinsic), that is, meaning that is innate to it and exists beyond individual perception. Since the “absolute” (Not limited by restrictions or exceptions), by definition, has to exist outside of subjective perception, “absolute meaning” cannot exist, because to give meaning is to perceive a certain quality of something.

And if you consider absolute meaning to be when there is only one meaning left; while there may appear to only be a single meaning left, there is still the potential for other meanings to be derived from the particular thing in question. So, it is not truly absolute in this case. Absolute meaning cannot be so when it only exists at the moment, or when conditions must be met for it to be considered “absolute” to begin with.

To be absolute is to be unconditional.

 

[Words]

There is nothing outside of subjective perception, so there is nothing "absolute"? Or is it exclusive to "meaning"?

there is still the potential for other meanings to be derived from the particular thing in question.

How is this potential determined? What creates the "potential"?

 

[RubberDucky451]

Are you guys really discussing perception in an intro thread?

Only on INTP forum

 

[KazeCraven]

Are you guys really discussing perception in an intro thread?

Only on INTP forum

What, that's uncommon?

 

[Faux Pas]

Words,

There is nothing outside of subjective perception, so there is nothing "absolute"? Or is it exclusive to "meaning"?

I believe there are absolutes.

But sentient beings are ensnared by their subjectivity- we can probably never be certain that something is absolute.

How is this potential determined? What creates the "potential"?

The ability of sentient beings to perceive an almost infinite number of meanings of anything.



Newcomers,

Finally. Some fresh new faces. You are more than welcome to join in the discussion.

 

[Mondorius]

I must humbly emphasize how that hat's awesomeness is absolute, from a completely objective point of view.

Also, welcome!