Going Rogue : Report on The Incident of the 31st of January

[flow]

Fair enough. I look forward to hearing the conclusions drawn from the interrogation. Until then, powwow.

 

[RMustela]

Good analysis. However, suppose he thought he was protecting the forum ?

I think I can put an answer to that, with another quote from IRC. Earlier in the day, some people in IRC were discussing potential ways of getting around the ban if you didn't lift it. Some choice responses are as follows:

12:01 <&Jesin> aand yeah, I don't think this is worth tearing the forum apart over
...[after other suggestions]...
12:02 <&Jesin> no, that's ban evasion

I don't think he sounds like he's proclaimed himself to be the Irreplacable Lord Guardian of the Forums.

 

[Wisp]

We only have one Irreplacable Lord Guardian. And it is definitely not Jesin.

 

[ashitaria]

Anthile. Nice analytical work. I want to add to your

What is the motive of Person X?

V.) Person X's perpetration purpose was petulance for all the gossip he knew this thread would put forth about him/her after he done the deed.

In other words, glory.

 

[Kuu]

Longest. Callback. In history of forum.

I aim to please.

For the uninitiated

Here's a longer callback, Sage. I spammed the forum into life with a guy known as Cabbo Pearimo. Back when the forum had posts per week. Or month. Or less.



Also, FlashChat.

STFU wisp. That was neither relevant nor funny, just to win a Pness measuring contest... and distract people from the truthiness of the pangolin conspiracy

 

[Wisp]

Nice, Kuu; I'd forgotten that post.

I also seem to remember a guy named Tekton for some reason...

 

[Xel]

"Remember when I said I was going to kill you last intpforum?"
"That's right, you did Person X"
"I lied"

 

[sagewolf]

Tekton fell prey to the conspiracy, obviously.

He wasn't careful enough. Kuu, on the other hand, is a worthy warrior against their wiles...

Like Zelda and Sheik...

 

[jhbowden]

RMustela, I believe YOU are Jesin.

Just a hunch.
http://intpforum.com/member.php?u=664

 

[Wisp]

Except no. Both I and Latro have met Jesin IRL. I also know rmus from other contexts.

 

[Latro]

I can support what Wisp just said, minus the rmus bit (from lack of evidence, not evidence to the contrary).

 

[Ogion]

I just posted in the non public part, i will repeat it here for clarity (Not everyone might have known, i was admin too):


Under the current circumstances, which do not seem to change, i ask to be relieved of duty, de-admin/de-mod-fied, whatever you call it.
This is injustice and i cannot partake in it. This is not even simply a defence of Jesin, although i do stand by him, this is more about my own, inner values and them being violated. Since all my (and others') attempt at reasoning, at a diplomatic way, have failed, my only response left is retreat.
So please, remove any admin/mod rights i may have.

Ogion

P.S.: This is in no way an attempt at blackmail or some such. This is the result of an inner decision about an outer situation. It wouldn't serve my conscience in any way should my announcement of this lead to appeasement in this matter. I'm sure some will understand this.



Ogion

 

[sagewolf]

Context would be nice, although I appreciate that what is not public is not so for a reason.

I understand what it is to stand behind your inner values and convictions, though, and I believe you when you say this isn't an attempt at coercion, because I believe I know you, and I don't believe you would resort to a tactic like that.

Please tell me, though, that this isn't tearing the forum up from the inside...

 

[lightspeed]

I just posted in the non public part, i will repeat it here for clarity (Not everyone might have known, i was admin too):


Under the current circumstances, which do not seem to change, i ask to be relieved of duty, de-admin/de-mod-fied, whatever you call it.
This is injustice and i cannot partake in it. This is not even simply a defence of Jesin, although i do stand by him, this is more about my own, inner values and them being violated. Since all my (and others') attempt at reasoning, at a diplomatic way, have failed, my only response left is retreat.
So please, remove any admin/mod rights i may have.

Ogion





Ogion

Just so you know: I read and enjoy your posts and input. Just because I don't post much, doesn't mean I don't care or know who you are. As one member argued. You will be missed. As we indicated before, after all facts are in front of us, can you expect us to make a fair decision. If you would like to be removed of your duties, you may privately message us. All this nonsense seems to be driving a wedge in between all of us. Just as the attacker wanted. Oh well...We're all fools if you ask me.

Again, you will be missed.

 

[Melkor]

There is something both fascinating and endearing in the human trait of fussing over the most trivial things in the least trivial ways.

Alright, the forum was bombarded, and it probably wasn't Jesin, we all realise that, but we're going to make MOUNTAINS out of molehills because we're a bunch of self-righteous, immoral moralistic, tail chasing courteous pricks!

Dear lord, look at yourselves!

If this wasn't a forum, and we weren't all at least seven miles apart, I'd mistake the lot of you for extroverted feelers that had sat on something wet.


Could someone please get that pipe and monocle off Anthile, coax Ogion off the cupboard, force Latro to ingest his medicine and give Kuu a hug.


I would do it myself, but it's so much more fun watching.

 

[lightspeed]

Melkor is right.

 

[Melkor]

I daresay that means you'd all better listen twice as closely on this rare and improbable occassion.


Lightspeed did say that, didn't he?

Sure I'm not seeing things?

 

[EditorOne]

A mention of the obvious might restore equilibrium: This thread is ample proof that INTPs are not at their best when their emotions are heavily engaged and judgment is required.

Doublechecking: Jesin is blocked from administrative powers, but can he participate in discussion? It would certainly be, ummmm, interesting to hear from him. Additionally, we are at impasse and just theorizing and analyzing a paucity of facts. Need more data to clear up the remaining, key issue, Jesin's actual real-world role, if any.

I am not privy to any other forums where your various cyber-presences exist, but does it not seem some communication from Jesin might have been expected after loss of his administrative role and whatnot? Have any of you who have met him in the real world the ability to repeat that without fuss?

I don't have a dog in the fight, but my curiosity is peaking.

 

[NoID10ts]

Well, I guess I should come clean now that your panties are in a twist over this whole thing.

Here's the god's honest, truth:

I was scurrying through "crackwhoreville" (as the locals lovingly call it) and peeping in windows, as is my usual Saturday night custom, when I spotted a particularly inviting window on the second floor of a second hand underwear shop. The flicker of warm candlelight was dancing in the darkness and the faint wisps of Barry Manilow were calling out to me from up above. I needed to see what was going on in there.

So in true man-roach fashion, I climbed a festive looking oak tree that was adorned with long, slimy balloons of various colors, long since deflated, to get a little peek. Well who should I see, but XIII and FacetiousPersona embroiled in the ecstasy of a little male breast fondling while reading exotic chicken recipes to one another. Now I’m not usually into that sort of thing, but they were both wearing pants, cocks behind closed zippers, and from the waist up they were sort of attractive.

I admit that I got a little rise out of it (little being the operative word), until Face bent XIII over a sequined saddle that was suspended from the rafters, ripped off his own tear away velcro blue jeans like some sort of sex crazed svengali, and began doing a bizarre little puppet show with his member (little, again, being the operative word).

So there was Penis Abe Lincoln, standing at attention and reciting the Gettysburg address, complete with a black top hat and a beard colored on with permanent marker. The odd thing was, he was not addressing XIII's face, but his right ass cheek which was made to look like an audience with little smiley face stickers and he would slap it at the opportune times for applause. Why the left ass cheek was excluded from the production I may never know, but I suspect it was some sort of misguided statement on the evils of slavery.

Well I was a bit taken aback by the whole thing when I heard a shriek and someone yell “my password is fuckmegentlywithachainsaw!” To my surprise, it was Jesin, just two branches above me and hanging upside down like a sloth (for the record he was just trying to retrieve his lucky polka dotted rubber ball). As it turns out, Jesin has a touch of the touretts and spontaneously yells out his password when surprised, startled, or gently awaken from a nap. I don’t even want to tell you what he yelled when he saw those two miscreants begin the civil war reenactment complete with “cannon fire”, but I, Noddy, king of all that is profane, swear to you that it was the grossest thing I’ve ever heard in my life.

Interestingly, XIII and Face never heard Jesin’s outbursts, because the Barry Manilow LP was turned up far too loud, their vintage Renaissance era ladies wigs were covering their ears, and they were squealing in a crescendo of delight over the assassination of Penis Abe Lincoln by Penis John Wilkes Boothe. Alas, Jesin never even knew I was there, but I had his password.

So I went home, desperate to drown out the sorrow of all I had seen and heard, and got high sniffing spray paint I procured earlier that evening from the dumpster behind the hardware store. I was traumetized, I was stoned, I hate you all, and so I decided to log in as Jesin and fuck up the forum just for shits and grins.

Sorry about that.

So as you can see, this was physically beyond Jesin’s control, Face and XIII were responsible, however indirectly, and, not surprisingly, I am the worst and most malicious member of intpforum. Now Ban me, reinstate Jesin, have XIII and Face drawn and quartered for crimes against humanity, and get on with your lives.

 

[EditorOne]

Anyone who had to listen to Barry Manilow can be forgiven for going off the rails.

 

[lightspeed]

NoID10ts that was the best post ever. It had a William S. Burroughs feel.

Again, though martyrs have shown great loyalties, I still doubt the rising has anything to do with Jesin. His account simply can not be reinstated until the issue is completely investigates.

And crack isn't that bad.

 

[lightspeed]

Anyone who had to listen to Barry Manilow can be forgiven for going off the rails.

Yes. Haha! And Elitism can be lonely, even if it's disguised as moral superiority.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

*stares in awe, slightly slack-jawed, at Noddy's post.*
Truly this whole ridiculous thread is actually worth reading now!

We should have that post framed!

 

[BigApplePi]

Well, I guess I should come clean now that your panties are in a twist over this whole thing.

Here's the god's honest, truth:

I was scurrying through "crackwhoreville" (as the locals lovingly call it) and peeping in windows, as is my usual Saturday night custom, when I spotted a particularly inviting window on the second floor of a second hand underwear shop. The flicker of warm candlelight was dancing in the darkness and the faint wisps of Barry Manilow were calling out to me from up above. I needed to see what was going on in there.

So in true man-roach fashion, I climbed a festive looking oak tree that was adorned with long, slimy balloons of various colors, long since deflated, to get a little peek. Well who should I see, but XIII and FacetiousPersona embroiled in the ecstasy of a little male breast fondling while reading exotic chicken recipes to one another. Now I’m not usually into that sort of thing, but they were both wearing pants, cocks behind closed zippers, and from the waist up they were sort of attractive.

I admit that I got a little rise out of it (little being the operative word), until Face bent XIII over a sequined saddle that was suspended from the rafters, ripped off his own tear away velcro blue jeans like some sort of sex crazed svengali, and began doing a bizarre little puppet show with his member (little, again, being the operative word).

So there was Penis Abe Lincoln, standing at attention and reciting the Gettysburg address, complete with a black top hat and a beard colored on with permanent marker. The odd thing was, he was not addressing XIII's face, but his right ass cheek which was made to look like an audience with little smiley face stickers and he would slap it at the opportune times for applause. Why the left ass cheek was excluded from the production I may never know, but I suspect it was some sort of misguided statement on the evils of slavery.

Well I was a bit taken aback by the whole thing when I heard a shriek and someone yell “my password is fuckmegentlywithachainsaw!” To my surprise, it was Jesin, just two branches above me and hanging upside down like a sloth (for the record he was just trying to retrieve his lucky polka dotted rubber ball). As it turns out, Jesin has a touch of the touretts and spontaneously yells out his password when surprised, startled, or gently awaken from a nap. I don’t even want to tell you what he yelled when he saw those two miscreants begin the civil war reenactment complete with “cannon fire”, but I, Noddy, king of all that is profane, swear to you that it was the grossest thing I’ve ever heard in my life.

Interestingly, XIII and Face never heard Jesin’s outbursts, because the Barry Manilow LP was turned up far too loud, their vintage Renaissance era ladies wigs were covering their ears, and they were squealing in a crescendo of delight over the assassination of Penis Abe Lincoln by Penis John Wilkes Boothe. Alas, Jesin never even knew I was there, but I had his password.

So I went home, desperate to drown out the sorrow of all I had seen and heard, and got high sniffing spray paint I procured earlier that evening from the dumpster behind the hardware store. I was traumetized, I was stoned, I hate you all, and so I decided to log in as Jesin and fuck up the forum just for shits and grins.

Sorry about that.

So as you can see, this was physically beyond Jesin’s control, Face and XIII were responsible, however indirectly, and, not surprisingly, I am the worst and most malicious member of intpforum. Now Ban me, reinstate Jesin, have XIII and Face drawn and quartered for crimes against humanity, and get on with your lives.

That recommendation is all well and good but now we all know the password.

 

[sagewolf]

...Nothing in that post had better show up as your avatar, Noddy. It seems to have disappeared and I shudder to think what you have planned.

 

[Jennywocky]

Re: Hero of the Revolution

He immediately awarded himself a post-count of 12,863.

That would assuredly have been the first thing I would have done, as a would-be usurper of Ultimate Forum Power.
(However, I would have let my imagination soar a bit higher and chosen a count like 12,874. DREAM BIG!!!)

Where did you find this guy anyway?
Poor li'l Jesin.


ps.... Penis Abe Lincoln? *scritch scratch*

 

[echoplex]

I think we're all part of an experiment. That's both interesting and awkward to me. It would be more interesting if it wasn't also a bit upsetting. It's like someone messing up your house so they can observe how you react to having your house messed up. When it's your house, it's not as easy to sit back and enjoy the observation as it is for... well, let's just call them The Entity.

That possibly made no sense.

But yeah, when I saw the behavior of the revelers in that infamous 'Party' room, I kind of thought the forum might be gone.... forever, even. They were obviously insane, and it seemed they had nearly raped and pillaged the place. They were eating our food and taking our women, and any other metaphor for what seemed like conquest behavior. It seemed that someone had spent months (years?) just trying to destroy a relatively small forum. Kind of pathetic, but I thought maybe they had succeeded. Surely such a victory -- even such a small one -- would mean that this entity might, for one moment, enjoy a small ounce of self-esteem.

But I was wrong... I think.

And, you know, 'The Party Room' might actually be a decent subforum, but I worry that the meme has been forever tainted. Still, I say we steal the idea from The Entity.

 

[cheese]

Do we have any logs of the stuff that went on here? Everyone keeps going on about how weird it was, and here I am completely deprived in my ignorance.

 

[Vegard Pompey]

This conversation reminds me of something I saw a member with a very low post count say somewhere, that "Vulcans are illogical". His reasoning was that it was not logical not to take emotion into consideration, or something to that effect.

Also, "an eye for an eye" is an incredibly stupid saying to be so widely used.

 

[Ragnar]

Not really, Administrator lightspeed is tracking the IPs etc., but all records after 07.43AM GMT have naturally been overwritten by the 07.40 AM back-up which replaced the false forum.*


Some appreciation of the hosts would be nice: they put in --- labour for some hours --- a back-up that they take hourly or more. If it was down to my weekly back-up ( which could be corrupted in some way ) it would have taken up to a week for me to replace the forum --- and assume no help from some hosts in regaining control of the admin panel --- considering that full back-ups now weigh over 1GB on a forum this size, and my connection varies from .5 to 1MB.




*I believe Claverhouse copied most of the threads as files, but they aren't that interesting.

 

[Chimera]

Not much to say about this whole thing (being that I'm mainly a lurker of the forum), but. . .
First off, I honest-to-god believe Jesin wasn't behind this. The hard evidence isn't there, and really all my argument relies on is just knowing the guy. In a court setting, that might amount to nothing, but screw that, this is intpforum, and this is Jesin. He's been one of my closest friends from the forum and iirc. Unless he's a brilliant actor (and thought to pretend that he's horrible at acting. . .which he is. . .), then there's no way he could have fooled me (and Wisp and Latro and Cryp, etc etc) for this long. We're talking, like, years. Why on earth would anyone expend that sort of energy just for the purpose of tearing down the forum for a day? If the facade was kept up for that long, he would have waited for a way to do something much bigger, and much more permanent.​

Maybe he snapped, some might say. Maybe he really was a nice guy, and then he just went berserk. That's mildly more possible, but if that's the case, then I want to know what pushed him over the edge, because it must have been something horrendous if it caused him to do this, and I would refuse to turn my back on him.​

I'm not blaming anyone. Until that report gets back, all the theorizing amounts to nothing, and all this "guilty until proven innocent" is bullshit. That would mean that we're all under accusation (yes, even you Claverhouse; what if you're just a puppet of the hacker as well? how are we to know if the hacker isn't using your account to frame Jesin, and took the initiative to replicate your unique posting style so no one would accuse you?)--and my head just doesn't have the capacity for that much suspicion. ​

Accounts mean nothing. It's the people behind them I'm focused on, and Jesin wouldn't do this. Maybe his account was involved, but it wasn't him.​

*dips her head and backs away with a breath of relief* ​

 

[Latro]

In a court setting, that might amount to nothing

If I remember correctly, demonstration of motive tends to be one of the most important aspects of a criminal trial, at least in the US.

Of course, as you said, this is guilty until proven innocent (evidently Jesin is expected to explain how his account was hacked to prove his innocence) not innocent until proven guilty, so a reference to the US legal system is meaningless.

 

[Claverhouse]

Not much to say about this whole thing (being that I'm mainly a lurker of the forum), but. . .
First off, I honest-to-god believe Jesin wasn't behind this. The hard evidence isn't there, and really all my argument relies on is just knowing the guy. In a court setting, that might amount to nothing, but screw that, this is intpforum, and this is Jesin. He's been one of my closest friends from the forum and iirc. Unless he's a brilliant actor (and thought to pretend that he's horrible at acting. . .which he is. . .), then there's no way he could have fooled me (and Wisp and Latro and Cryp, etc etc) for this long. We're talking, like, years. Why on earth would anyone expend that sort of energy just for the purpose of tearing down the forum for a day? If the facade was kept up for that long, he would have waited for a way to do something much bigger, and much more permanent.​

Maybe he snapped, some might say. Maybe he really was a nice guy, and then he just went berserk. That's mildly more possible, but if that's the case, then I want to know what pushed him over the edge, because it must have been something horrendous if it caused him to do this, and I would refuse to turn my back on him.​

*sighs* The fact is that any admin can do this: it does not have to be planned, nor does it have to be spur-of-the moment. Speculation is as pointless as belief that one 'knows' a person --- that gentle old man may have been a ferocious commando in a previous war; that nice old lady may have killed three husbands for the insurance: in each case neighbours will believe that this person could never have done such a thing.

Yet in this case the bank vault was rifled and only one guard's key was found in the lock, who went missing. Not any other guard's. Until such time as the guard can show the key was stolen from him or he was abducted or that someone made a facsimile of the key through... guesswork... Guilty until proved innocent is the only rational way to go.​

I'm not blaming anyone. Until that report gets back, all the theorizing amounts to nothing, and all this "guilty until proven innocent" is bullshit. That would mean that we're all under accusation (yes, even you Claverhouse; what if you're just a puppet of the hacker as well? how are we to know if the hacker isn't using your account to frame Jesin, and took the initiative to replicate your unique posting style so no one would accuse you?)--and my head just doesn't have the capacity for that much suspicion.

The report may well be inconclusive. And since no-one else is under suspicion your saying that everyone suffers from the premise of 'Guilty until proved innocent' is mere appeal to the crowd.

If I am now the puppet of the alleged 'hacker' then obviously this forum as it is now is merely the false forum continued, with lor, Ragnar, lightspeed, Anthile etc. as other puppets replacing the originals
​

Of course, as you said, this is guilty until proven innocent (evidently Jesin is expected to explain how his account was hacked to prove his innocence) not innocent until proven guilty, so a reference to the US legal system is meaningless.

You feel that he should instead be presumed innocent and perhaps reinstated ? This seems self-satisfied with one's own prejudgement based on emotional feeling and positively insane from the view of security in any sphere of life.




Claverhouse

 

[Words]

What's more important is the appreciation of those who did work to fix the forum. I don't know how to thank them though.

 

[Ogion]

Wait, Claverhouse, did you just say "Jesin went missing" ? Really?
He was online the last days as regular as always. And on the forum he is IP BANNED.

Ogion

 

[Latro]

You feel that he should instead be presumed innocent and perhaps reinstated ? This seems self-satisfied with one's own prejudgement based on emotional feeling and positively insane from the view of security in any sphere of life.

1. This insistence that he, that is, the owner of the account, did it unless he presents evidence that would be almost impossible for anyone to find is ridiculous.
2. No, I do not think he should be reinstated as an admin, at least for the time being. I think not reinstating him, given the circumstances, would demonstrate a reasonable amount of suspicion.
3. I do think his IP ban should be lifted. As in #2, I think allowing him to just be an ordinary member would be a good exercise in reasonable suspicion.
4. "Guilty until proven innocent" is not an appeal to the crowd here. I've seen some of the things that have been said, and I know that one of them is that Jesin has to somehow explain how his account got hacked before he can be allowed to return. That's a textbook example of "guilty until proven innocent".
5. Your insistence that feeling, knowing another person, etc. are completely irrelevant is so paranoid and ridiculous that even the legal system (which is definitely concerned with personal security) doesn't buy it.
6. On the note of 5, please talk to a psychologist of some sort. You seem quite imbalanced to me (I'm not using this as an attack on your credibility, I just think you'd benefit).

 

[Jennywocky]

Also, "an eye for an eye" is an incredibly stupid saying to be so widely used.

Right.

I think a "toe for a toe" is far more interesting.

(or a "navel for a navel"?)

 

[Ogion]

/me points to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Drumhead

Ogion

 

[Claverhouse]

Wait, Claverhouse, did you just say "Jesin went missing" ? Really?
He was online the last days as regular as always. And on the forum he is IP BANNED.

Ogion

He has yet to offer any explanation/reasoning to the administration of his understanding of the event. No admin has reported an email from him, or a statement given in IM, in the last three days..

What he, or anyone else, is said to have said on IRC is merely hearsay, and could neither convict nor acquit.


And his IP is banned since there is a possibility that he, or the mysterious stranger who usurped him, could have prepared backdoors long beforehand.





Claverhouse

 

[Claverhouse]

/me points to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Drumhead

Ogion

/me points to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serjeant_Musgrave's_Dance





Claverhouse

 

[Ogion]

1st-February-2010 05:01 PM GMT+1 i posted a post in the admin-Discussion thread about this incident and i quote it here in parts:

Btw, he just showed up on irc and he vehemently says it was not him and that he "LIKES" our forum..



Now, this is hearsay? Jesin said that in irc as i was there, it was one of the first lines after he was told what had happened and that he was accused. I was there at the time and i have logs from it.

Ogion

 

[Claverhouse]

Yes, it is hearsay. It is not a statement to the board by him.

I'm sorry if this seems legalistic, but getting into 'he said/she said' merely confuses the issue.


You did offer there 'to play messenger between Jesin and here when someone wants that from me.', and that offer was accepted, but has yet to materialise. And IRC records where someone says 'it was not me' have no value whether from him, Face or me.




Claverhouse

 

[Ogion]

What do you expect then? He can't post on the forum himself, so he has to go by someone else as messenger. But then you don't allow irc as him telling me what i should tell you? What do you want, mail? Voice recording? Video footage? Transcript signed by a judge?

Ogion

 

[Claverhouse]

What's so difficult about writing a few sentences in an email to lightspeed or lor in the last few days ?

A year ago he tracked the absent Ragnar down through the latter's youtube account. He is not in the least technically incapable.




Claverhouse




I'll take sagewolf's advice and move this thread to Crime: those who needed to know what happened have seen it* and there's no need to further blacken Jesin's name either by the naming or the ridiculous defences being offered which paint him as incompetent.


*Apart from that number of major posters who have not returned since the 31st; perhaps because they can't get in.

 

[Ogion]

Did anyone say he was technically incapable?
But nobody told him that you expect him to write an email. He didn't even know about him being accused until it was told to him in irc.

Ogion

 

[flow]

An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind. - Gandhi

Seriously though, everyone is convinced of Jesin's innocence except for Claverhouse at this point.. that much is clear.

 

[Claverhouse]

A number of people have suggested things are beyond him technically or psychologically...

I can't begin to imagine though that someone whose account had been used to destroy and trash a forum wouldn't feel the need to immediately email the chief admin loveofreason or any other to state their case and explain how the account was taken from them.


Just to clear their name. After all for a whole day his NAME was solely emblazoned upon the trashed forum for not just members, but the world to see --- and Google. Not anyone else's, neither your's, mine or any other madmin's.

I'm fairly certain that it would be my priority untold.


As for not knowing, I can't see how he has been prevented from seeing the forum in this age of miracles, and proxies.




Claverhouse

 

[Claverhouse]

Seriously though, everyone is convinced of Jesin's innocence except for Claverhouse at this point.. that much is clear.

And some admins such as lightspeed, and some of the commentators here, and some of the members who have not spoken because they didn't wish to or are uninterested. Try not to attribute to the world your own facile preconceptions in order to justify them.




Claverhouse

 

[flow]

If you're going to list 'members who have not spoken because they didn't wish to or are uninterested' as accounts that justify your cause, you're not going to get very far. So far, I see manly yourself opposed to Jesin's innocence. And mostly it looks as if you you're blaming him for getting hacked and causing you work, and so you wish that he would apologize for getting hacked. Correct? In no way am I saying you're wrong for wishing that Jesin be apologetic and whatnot, but still, historical evidence (of his character) overwhelmingly favors his innocence in this case. I guess he should apologize and be reinstated. However, if I was him... I'd be slow to apologize for being framed.

 

[Jennywocky]

I haven't said anything because (1) I don't know Jesin well, (2) the case seems circumstantial, and (3) protestations of innocence also seem circumstantial.

it seems clear that everyone agrees that Jesin's account was used.
The question is whether or not Jesin was part of the plot.

Is there any hard evidence either way or did I skim over something?
I'm not going to comment on anything based solely on conceptual detective work, since at this point hard evidence needs to be accumulated.

Personally, though, in terms of procedure:
If Jesin's account was responsible for an attack and his account has now been stripped of any admin capabilities and there is no actual way for him to do damage, what's the harm of him having member access to the forum? If he's innocent, then that ends up being fair; if he's guilty, you guys can figure it out from how he posts + your continuing investigation and ban him later if necessary.

That approach seems to cover all the possibilities most fairly to me... but again, I am not privy to any inside knowledge.

... I mean, I barely know Jesin from a hole in the wall (i only recognize his id but nothing else), so I'm about as objective a member as anyone, I guess.