Get inside women's minds

[tRand]

I was recently turned on to the latest "it" book for women Fifty Shades of Grey by E L James. My sister read the entire 500 page book in two nights, which is significant because I have never known her to read at all. She mentioned to me that a "man could never comprehend how a woman's mind works well enough to write a book like this. "
I then had an epiphany! "READ this book to better UNDERSTAND WOMEN!!"

I have begun reading through the first few chapters of the book and I have already obtained a better understanding of women's minds than I was able to obtain through four years of high school. As I read, I cant help but notice that the protagonist seems to be an INTP. Therefore this book allows one to see inside the mind of a woman as she attempts to get an INTP.

Two Questions
​

1. Does anyone else believe the major male character is an INTP?

2. To women: Is this book a good example of how a typical woman perceives things?

 

[Deleted member 1424]

The Fifty Shades Trilogy was developed from a Twilight fanfiction

That really tells you all you need to know

 

[Pistoli]

I was recently turned on to the latest "it" book for women Fifty Shades of Grey by E L James. My sister read the entire 500 page book in two nights, which is significant because I have never known her to read at all. She mentioned to me that a "man could never comprehend how a woman's mind works well enough to write a book like this. "
I then had an epiphany! "READ this book to better UNDERSTAND WOMEN!!"

I have begun reading through the first few chapters of the book and I have already obtained a better understanding of women's minds than I was able to obtain through four years of high school. As I read, I cant help but notice that the protagonist seems to be an INTP. Therefore this book allows one to see inside the mind of a woman as she attempts to get an INTP.

Two Questions
​

1. Does anyone else believe the major male character is an INTP?

2. To women: Is this book a good example of how a typical woman perceives things?

I think my cheeks just blushed 50 shades of red, because, that was the cutest thing I've read all day.

 

[Akuma]

I tried reading the preview.

2. To women: Is this book a good example of how a typical woman perceives things?

Nope.
First mistake is assuming that women are "difficult" to understand. They are not.
Second mistake is assuming women are hopeless romantics. Which they are not.
(My entire group of female friends back in high school hated Twilight.)

Romance books are all wish-fulfilment. Nothing to do with real life.
Like rape fantasies. Not in real life.

 

[MissQuote]

The plot traces the relationship between recent college graduate Anastasia Steele and manipulative billionaire Christian Grey. Steele is required by Grey to sign a contract allowing him complete control over her life. As she gets to know him she learns that his sexual tastes involve bondage, domination and sadism, and that childhood abuse left him a deeply damaged individual. In order to be his partner she agrees to experiment with BDSM, but struggles to reconcile who she is (a virgin who has never previously had a boyfriend) with whom Christian wants her to be: his submissive, to-do-with-as-he-pleases partner in his "Red Room of Pleasure."

No. No. And No.

I am ashamed to be of the same sex as your sister.

If you want a book that gets inside the mind of women, a book that expresses what Love truly means to a woman in all of its forms, better than any other book I have read deals with that subject I recommend you read A Thousand Splendid Suns, by Khaled Hosseini. (and the author is a man, which I do not hold against him at all)

 

[Eido]

Not to hijack the thread, but am I the only one who thinks the premise of this best-selling book is completely ridiculous?

"Hello, strange man I've never met before, I am Anastasia, a recently graduated young woman with my virginity intact. What's that you say? You want to show me your creepy sex dungeon and then have me sign a contract to become your legally-bound sex slave? Why sure I will. After all, I understand you are rich and powerful, so there is no reason I should be scared of you."

I will remind you this is now one of the most rapidly-selling books ever made now. If this book does lend any greater insight into the female mind, it would be that women's sexual fantasies are even more vapid and nonsensical than men's.

 

[MissQuote]

I have read that women tend to have sexual fantasies about things that are very unlikely that they will ever do, whereas men tend to fantasize about things they would like to do.

Assuming this is true, it suggests that women would indeed likely have much more outlandish and deviant fantasies on average than men.

 

[Meer]

Urruguhghh... Can we get rid of gender, already?

 

[Kuu]

Assuming this is true, it suggests that women would indeed likely have much more outlandish and deviant fantasies on average than men.

Ah, I can now see the true purpose of this thread...


... continue.

 

[Cognisant]

If this book does lend any greater insight into the female mind, it would be that women's sexual fantasies are even more vapid and nonsensical than men's.

Not possible.

 

[Akuma]

Assuming this is true, it suggests that women would indeed likely have much more outlandish and deviant fantasies on average than men.

I remember hearing that hybristophilia is the only paraphilia more common in women than men.

Urruguhghh... Can we get rid of gender, already?

Yes please.

Also this book's plot seems similar to Okane ga Nai(No Money) a horrifying existence targeted at women, surprisingly written by a guy.

 

[Eido]

Urruguhghh... Can we get rid of gender, already?

I think I need to sit down one day and have a conversation with someone who has this opinion, I really can't wrap my brain around it. Every time I try to understand this point of view my brain starts to hurt.

 

[Mello]

water girls?

 

[Minuend]

I have read that women tend to have sexual fantasies about things that are very unlikely that they will ever do, whereas men tend to fantasize about things they would like to do.

Assuming this is true, it suggests that women would indeed likely have much more outlandish and deviant fantasies on average than men.

That can't be true as my sex dungeon for a cog x kuu x anthile threesome is already under construction. Anyone have any spare lotions?

Oh, and if anyone needs to get inside a woman's mind, you'll need nightvision, oars, three apples and a cape that will woosh on command.

 

[MissQuote]

They make capes that woosh on command?

Like, you don't have to make it woosh, you just commandit to woosh?

I must have one of these.

 

[Darby]

I sometimes try to imagine everyone's brains whirring just like mine, and then my brain realizes how totally fucking amazing it is that everyone is just as neurotic and anxious, and then it makes me sad, because it means noone will ever communicate with one another in person, and how sad a world of Darbys would be.

Therefore I tend to assume that everyone is simple minded(including men and women), and that things aren't half as complex as I want to think and everything has gone well so far.

Also, that book sounds awful

 

[scorpiomover]

I have read that women tend to have sexual fantasies about things that are very unlikely that they will ever do, whereas men tend to fantasize about things they would like to do.

Assuming this is true, it suggests that women would indeed likely have much more outlandish and deviant fantasies on average than men.

Zoophilia with women is a common form of sexual fantasy of men, as is lesbians. Neither involve the man.

I think what is true, is that nowadays, men tend to hide their unrealistic sexual fantasies, while women tend to be pretty open about them.

More about how society keeps telling men that they are all extremely stupid chauvinist rapists, who are all basically dogs in human clothing, and need to keep silent and do what they are told, while women are told they are saints with a 250 IQ, who are always right, and never do anything wrong, not even the women who are convicted of child abuse.

Total fantasy, to be sure. Mostly what people are being told they should believe about real men and women.

I remember hearing that hybristophilia is the only paraphilia more common in women than men.

When stories of this nature are published or put on film, if the male is the criminal, then they make it look like a Mills and Boon novel, with the male being the powerful character who protects an innocent, weak female, and the male falling in love with the female, and doing everything to protect and provide for her. Sounds like she gets everything she wants, and she lives happily ever after. What female would not at least consider getting everything she ever wanted?

When it's the other way around, and the female is the dangerous one, then she is usually like Sharon Stone's character is Basic Instinct. Great sex. Then in a few weeks, an ice-pick straight into his heart. Is a few weeks of great sex, really worth losing the rest of your life?

 

[Wizardry]

I don't know that the main character seems INTP (not saying he isn't) but I have to wonder at a person requiring that much control over another person. Ok, I was really trying to look into this so I could give you a decent answer but I can't stop laughing at the amazon reviews. LOL

About half way through the book, I looked up the author to see if she was a teenager. I really did because the characters are out of a 16 year old's fantasy. The main male character is a billionaire (not a millionaire but a billionaire) who speaks fluent French, is basically a concert level pianist, is a fully trained pilot, is athletic, drop dead gorgeous, tall, built perfectly with an enormous penis, and the best lover on the planet. In addition, he's not only self made but is using his money to combat world hunger. Oh yeah, and all of this at the ripe old age of 26! And on top of that, he's never working. Every second is spent having sex or texting and emailing the female character. His billions seem to have just come about by magic. It seriously feels like 2 teenage girls got together and decided to create their "dream man" and came up with Christian Grey.

Also, that wasn't anywhere close to my male fantasy as a teen. I wanted a person like Haji from Blood+. They don't even get physical and its still a better love story than that trash, imo.

 

[Eido]

I think the bottom line for the OP here is that you came to the wrong place if you're trying to find someone who actually read this book and can give you an actual opinion.

That Amazon review pretty much encapsulates my point. I have a profound problem with the premise of this book, and it makes me kind of sad that this is the novel essentially representing popular female literature right now. Let me say that again, A raunchy Twilight fanfiction made into a novel is representing an entire half of the human species. Every feminist on the planet should be annoyed this book exists.

You can tell this book evolved from Twilight simply by looking at the main character: a female completely devoid of any major redeemable quality, who makes no progression as a character throughout the story, and essentially only exists to benefit the male character, and to perpetuate a highly unrealistic relationship.

I hope this book doesn't lend any insight into female perception, because, if it does, I fear for the future of mankind.

 

[Fukyo]

This is hilarious. I'm actually suspecting you may be trolling, but if not, then jeez, the naivety, eagerness with which you approach this, the fact that you sound like a salesperson on tv...hilarious.

I have begun reading through the first few chapters of the book and I have already obtained a better understanding of women's minds than I was able to obtain through four years of high school. As I read, I cant help but notice that the protagonist seems to be an INTP. Therefore this book allows one to see inside the mind of a woman as she attempts to get an INTP.

Did someone say wish fulfillment?

 

[DetachedRetina]

Did someone say wish fulfillment?

Yup.

About gender:

It always seemed to me that there is, on average, more deviation/variation between individuals than there is between men and women at large. I mean if I were to assign numbers that mean absolutely nothing to the situation. I'd guess there was a 10 point distance between males and females on average and a 50 point difference between any two randomly selected individuals (any gender) on average.

 

[Melkor]

I am now not only afraid of going outside, I am also afraid of being inside.

Thanks a lot you bastards.

 

[Meer]

I really want to hijack this thread into a tirade against gender.

Every time I try to understand this point of view my brain starts to hurt.

It always seemed to me that there is, on average, more deviation/variation between individuals than there is between men and women at large.

People are put (and put themselves) into rigid boxes of generalizations that don't actually fit them. This reduces people's freedom and doesn't really serve any useful purpose. Biologically, there is very little difference between male and female humans, except when it comes to who you'll need to team up with to procreate. Human life doesn't need to be about surviving long enough to make offspring, and probably shouldn't, so your sex doesn't need to be a defining factor in who you are, besides how you piss and the kind of body parts you'll use for sex.

Usually, when gender creeps into things, it's a lose-lose situation for everybody. An example could be women not wanting to be perceived as sluts and men not wanting to seem like potential neanderthal rapists, yet pretty much everyone wants sex.

I once went to a bar with some buddies and drank a pina colada. They made fun of me because it's not acceptable to pass liquid from blend of coconut and pineapple through a penis.

 

[Eido]

I really want to hijack this thread into a tirade against gender.


People are put (and put themselves) into rigid boxes of generalizations that don't actually fit them. This reduces people's freedom and doesn't really serve any useful purpose. Biologically, there is very little difference between male and female humans, except when it comes to who you'll need to team up with to procreate. Human life doesn't need to be about surviving long enough to make offspring, and probably shouldn't, so your sex doesn't need to be a defining factor in who you are, besides how you piss and the kind of body parts you'll use for sex.

Usually, when gender creeps into things, it's a lose-lose situation for everybody. An example could be women not wanting to be perceived as sluts and men not wanting to seem like potential neanderthal rapists, yet pretty much everyone wants sex.

I once went to a bar with some buddies and drank a pina colada. They made fun of me because it's not acceptable to pass liquid from blend of coconut and pineapple through a penis.

Well, maybe a moderator should split this into a separate thread, but I will indulge hijack.

The reason I have trouble accepting this viewpoint is that it tends to feel somewhat detached from reality for me. While I agree with your basic premise that this kind of categorization is generally bad, and leads to less freedom, I don't understand the folks who attempt to argue that the biological differences are so minor as to be ignored.

On a truly fundamental level--biologically, psychologically--men and women are very different. We move, think and act differently. Now, much of this can be dismissed as the product of an unfortunately gender-binary culture; we are taught by society what it means to be female or male, and then act accordingly. If we do not, then we are shunned by our friends, just as you were. But, I think it's also a mistake to completely dismiss the observable and qualitative differences.

Sexual dimorphism is found in every sexual species on the planet. It is the reality, and it does have major implications to how we view and interact with each other. Should we be shunned because we don't fit the narrow cultural definition of what is male or what is female? No, but that doesn't mean there should be NO differences recognized.

Ignoring this fact isn't going to make us any more free; it will simply contribute to the ever-worsening kindergarten culture we tend to live in these days, in which everybody is told they can be anything they want to be, even the complete opposite gender.

 

[Minuend]

They make capes that woosh on command?

Like, you don't have to make it woosh, you just commandit to woosh?

I must have one of these.

There are only two in existence. One is one the highest mountain. The other in the vile mouth of the beast that roams the edge of hell. To aquire one would mean great sacrifice. Or a piece of meat.

Well, maybe a moderator should split this into a separate thread, but I will indulge hijack.

The reason I have trouble accepting this viewpoint is that it tends to feel somewhat detached from reality for me. While I agree with your basic premise that this kind of categorization is generally bad, and leads to less freedom, I don't understand the folks who attempt to argue that the biological differences are so minor as to be ignored.

On a truly fundamental level--biologically, psychologically--men and women are very different. We move, think and act differently. Now, much of this can be dismissed as the product of an unfortunately gender-binary culture; we are taught by society what it means to be female or male, and then act accordingly. If we do not, then we are shunned by our friends, just as you were. But, I think it's also a mistake to completely dismiss the observable and qualitative differences.

Sexual dimorphism is found in every sexual species on the planet. It is the reality, and it does have major implications to how we view and interact with each other. Should we be shunned because we don't fit the narrow cultural definition of what is male or what is female? No, but that doesn't mean there should be NO differences recognized.

Ignoring this fact isn't going to make us any more free; it will simply contribute to the ever-worsening kindergarten culture we tend to live in these days, in which everybody is told they can be anything they want to be, even the complete opposite gender.

Ah. Would you be so kind and name a mental trait in men that can not be found in women? Or vice versa.

 

[Eido]

Ah. Would you be so kind and name a mental trait in men that can not be found in women? Or vice versa.

Well, that depends on your definition of 'trait' is. If you use the term generically, such as "all women love shopping," or "all men love sports," then no, I can't name one. But, I'm not speaking of generic traits here. I'm talking mostly about biologically-derived qualities. I can probably find the specific studies and link them--and there have been more than one--that cite specific qualities unique to both men and women which have neurological origins specific to each sex.

For example, I read a summary of a study which indicated that certain specific body language behaviors were distinctly female, and inherent in both normal and blind females, indicating that this was not a learned behavior, but rather something that is 'hard-wired' into the female brain. In fact, many body language signals are believed to be present without cultural influence, and they are often sex-specific.

 

[shortbuss]

I have never heard of this book, but based on the reviews from Amazon.com, I don't think I'd be into it. It sounds more like a female fantasy than something that you should view as realistic. Basically, the reviews made it sound like something with the maturity of Twilight, but with a wealthy male as the love interest which makes it somehow even more shallow.

I'm a female and I don't think that book would be my thing at all. I think you'd better serve your interests of understanding the opposite sex if you viewed them not as something totally different from yourself. We are all humans, and there is great variation between individuals of the same gender. One woman may be into night clubs while one may prefer to stay in and read. To blanket the entire gender will HURT you in understanding women. We are individuals, so treat us like you understand that we are people just like you, and you will receive our appreciation. It's like thinking that to win over black people you need to buy chicken and watermelon. It's dehumanizing, even if you don't mean it to be.

Here's something I personally think personifies what SOME women are attracted to in men, and really, a lot of the examples in this Top Ten "Hottest" Animated Guys list by the Nostalgia Chick are actually very positive for the INTP male. I'm mostly thinking of the examples of the dark, brooding, tortured soul archetype that needs to be saved. I completely admit that I am drawn to men with unique, compassionate, and intelligent personality traits. So anyway, enjoy these nerdy girls insight into what they and the people they surveyed like: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/vi...a-chick/34233-top-ten-qhottestq-animated-guys

There are comments, many by women below the video as well.

Edit: After rewatching it, I have to say, I have no idea why number 10 made the list. That is weird as fuck.

 

[tRand]

"Shortbuss"
First, you have misinterpreted my original post. I didn't claim this was a book that represented ALL women. I was merely suggesting it might help someone get a better understanding of how SOME of the millions of women that did read this book think.

Second, your opinion of the book is based on reviews you read on Amazon? You should probably read the book before you begin making judgements about how well it represents you.

Third, I never claimed, explicitly or otherwise, that women are not human. I didn't mention that women were not to be thought of as equal to men. I am constantly looking for ways to get a better understanding of all people, regardless of gender. However to claim that women and men don't have distinct differences is absurd.

In the future you should probably use a little more T than F when making judgements.

 

[shortbuss]

"Shortbuss"
First, you have misinterpreted my original post. I didn't claim this was a book that represented ALL women. I was merely suggesting it might help someone get a better understanding of how SOME of the millions of women that did read this book think.

Second, your opinion of the book is based on reviews you read on Amazon? You should probably read the book before you begin making judgements about how well it represents you.

Third, I never claimed, explicitly or otherwise, that women are not human. I didn't mention that women were not to be thought of as equal to men. I am constantly looking for ways to get a better understanding of all people, regardless of gender. However to claim that women and men don't have distinct differences is absurd.

In the future you should probably use a little more T than F when making judgements.

Haha, you're the one that ASKED what the women on this forum thought and whether it seemed an accurate depiction of our gender.

I think you're taking what I said as if I were condemning you, but I'm just expressing my opinion. Everything I wrote was not intended to mean that I think you don't perceive women as people, but that your method of understanding women is flawed. Your perception is a very common one, and I never meant to imply you were a sexist jerk or anything, just that you have the wrong idea, in my opinion, which is what you asked for.

I don't adhere to the old 'Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus' perspective. I'm only trying to help you in understanding women. If you view us as a group that can largely think and behave in a stereotyped manner, than you are eliminating the fact that women are individuals and vary in their lifestyles, beliefs and attitudes GREATLY.

There is no secret woman culture that most of our gender abides by, and if you instead attempt to understand women from their individual life experiences and beliefs than you will have much greater success IMO, because you will be able to connect with them on a level that is more depthful and authentic.

I was only trying to help like you asked.

(Also, I don't get why basing my opinion on Amazon reviews is unacceptable. I mean, the people giving the reviews read the book. I think I am perfectly capable of getting a general sense of the ideas espoused in this book.)

If you want to keep thinking of women in the way that you do then have at it hoss. It's only to your own detriment.

Oh, and I fully recognize the women and men have differences, but those are mostly expressed in our physical attributes. However, there are minor differences in the way female and male brains work, which I learned in Neuropsychology. I think you'd be better off reading up on the actual scientific differences between the genders than you are heeding some book espousing purely subjective observations about women.

Science is your friend.

Also, keep in mind that the entertainment industry is a product of predominantly male influence [here's the indisputable, numerical proof>http://womenintvfilm.sdsu.edu/files/2011_Celluloid_Ceiling_Exec_Summ.pdf]. I say this because too many people take what they see perpetuated in media as an accurate depiction of reality. The way female characters in tv and film are more often than not NOT actually the depiction of women as women, but women as men see them (or would like to see them). Do not misinterpret this to mean that these men are intentionally being assholes, but it is just a matter if unequal representation in the film industry that results in a skewed portrayal of women, and also non-white people.

This is purely conjecture, but I think this failing of the entertainment industry is why you often get female characters and black characters that have very bland personalities. It seems to me that this likely stems form a lack of general understanding, and a laziness on the part of certain people in the industry.