Do you think necrophilia should be considered a crime?

[Bird]

Why or why not?

 

[Melkor]

It depends on the context.

Where they once lovers?

How long has the corpse been a corpse?

Was there any damage of personal property or grounds involved? I.E Was the corpse dug up?

What did the victim die of?



At any rate, I'm not sure if it's necessarily wrong, it seems pretty harmless, but it's frowned upon, and generally not very clean, so I daresay I'd outlaw if, if I was in charge.
The thing is, humans tend to have this silly notion of sanctity towards corpses, so a lot of people would consider it an immoral disgrace. I'm not exactly with them on that, though I do agree with the idea that it can, in many cases, equate to rape, not just because there can be no consent, but because I doubt the corpse being defiled is always a personal lover of the defiler.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

(still loves you )

Hmmmm....Well I suppose objectively there is no victim and I don't believe in "victimless crimes". However some cultures and beliefs hold that certain rituals regarding the body need to be performed and thus someone having sex with the body can be seen as a desecration. So yes....there is a crime there but should perhaps be contingent with a living relative pressing charges.

Or perhaps while alive we should all check "sex" or "no sex" right next to the organ donor option on our driver's liscence.

 

[Melllvar]

The sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant.

Along those lines, I'm going with no. If you're really worried about someone having sex with your corpse, make sure the person burying you can offer protection against such things. Even if someone beats them to it, desecration doesn't really seem like a crime, and people 'desecrate' things that other people consider sacred on a daily basis (cows come to mind), but no one gets worried about it in those cases.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Well, laws should reflect customs, customs should reflect values, values should reflect character, and character should reflect experience. Until the majority of society has had sexual relations with a corpse, I don't think we as a whole are in a position to outlaw it.

 

[Claverhouse]

And in 20 years time the gay marriage loonies will have moved on to the unfairnessness of not letting corpses marry...

It depends on the context.

Where they once lovers?


Not unless you count stalking.


How long has the corpse been a corpse?


Ten years.


Was there any damage of personal property or grounds involved? I.E Was the corpse dug up?


Failing cremation this was inevitable.


What did the victim die of?


Complications of typhoid, scarlet fever and AIDS.


It was a bad business all round. The Inspector stated that in 40 years on the force he had never seen a case like it.




And so, all the night tide,
I lie down by the side
Of my darling --- my darling --- my life and my bride,
In her sepulcher there by the sea ---
In her tomb by the sounding sea.




For reasons of physiology one might consider this more as a male pastime, especially since there is a greater proportion of sick bastards among men; yet Juana the Mad, Queen of Castile took her husband with her everywhere, disregarding his no longer moving. Partly to kiss his feet, and partly, no doubt, to ensure his not flirting with other women; something he was prone to in life.



However, for hygienic reasons this is being moved to the Oubliette.






Claverhouse

 

[Kuu]

Or perhaps while alive we should all check "sex" or "no sex" right next to the organ donor option on our driver's license.

I was planning to donate my body to science but I have now found a more noble end to it...

 

[Methuselah]

God, y'all must have so much free time.

 

[Bird]

God, y'all must have so much free time.

...


As you spam us with hairy men.

 

[Methuselah]

...


As you spam us with hairy men.

Been pretty busy with them, actually.

 

[Melllvar]

God, y'all must have so much free time.

This is important stuff we're talking about here.

 

[Fukyo]

God, y'all must have so much free time.

necrophilia discussion > gross hairy men

 

[Methuselah]

necrophilia discussion > gross hairy men

That's called virility, baby. Something dead bodies don't have, I suppose.

 

[Cognisant]

Living humans are disgusting enough imo.

What really interests me about this discussion is how it plays with the concept of ownership; specifically can something be owned posthumously?

It also reminds me of a story I was once working on, based in a post-singularity world where using proxy bodies (remote controlled robots and wired up biological bodies) is perfectly normal and it has completely changed human culture. The physical world has effectively become the internet, people don't travel long distances anymore, they just transfer their connection from one body to the next, and there's all sorts of new social conventions to account for this. For example at one point the protagonist is just starting to have a meaningful conversation with someone and because they're uncomfortable they simply transfer out, leaving their body to slump lifelessly. In context this is like a nice way of rejecting someone, and I mean “nice” in a relevantly perverted way, although keep in mind this is the far off future, sensibilities change with time and context.

When someone owns several bodies I imagine they’d obtain a degree of detachment.

 

[Bird]

Living humans are disgusting enough imo.

What really interests me about this discussion is how it plays with the concept of ownership; specifically can something be owned posthumously?

It also reminds me of a story I was once working on, based in a post-singularity world where using proxy bodies (remote controlled robots and wired up biological bodies) is perfectly normal and it has completely changed human culture. The physical world has effectively become the internet, people don't travel long distances anymore, they just transfer their connection from one body to the next, and there's all sorts of new social conventions to account for this. For example at one point the protagonist is just starting to have a meaningful conversation with someone and because they're uncomfortable they simply transfer out, leaving their body to slump lifelessly. In context this is like a nice way of rejecting someone, and I mean “nice” in a relevantly perverted way, although keep in mind this is the far off future, sensibilities change with time and context.

When someone owns several bodies I imagine they’d obtain a degree of detachment.

I do not equate necrophilia to ownership at all.

Perhaps this is just how you would approach a
dead woman.


Also, do I get any sort of pay for setting you up
to advertise your work? Because I honestly
think I should. (I'm just kidding.)



I have a question that I hope you will take the
time to answer: What happens when someone
owns one body but has several different people
residing in this core husk? Does detachment
become prevalent?

 

[Cognisant]

Perhaps this is just how you would approach a
dead woman.

No point letting good meat go to waste, indeed in a world where people starve to death every day it's just downright immoral.

Also, do I get any sort of pay for setting you up
to advertise your work? Because I honestly
think I should. (I'm just kidding.)

*5min blank stare*

Oooh you mean the story, I'm still working on it of course, as in I'll get around to it eventually, exactly what kind of INTP do you think I am?

I have a question that I hope you will take the
time to answer: What happens when someone
owns one body but has several different people
residing in this core husk? Does detachment
become prevalent?

I don't really understand the question, in the story proxies are treated not unlike clothing, some are shared, some are job specific, some are toys to play with (like scuba gear) while others are only used for special occasions. Indeed many places, like a cinema, will have proxies on-site so people don't have to travel there at all, they can just pop in and pop out.

Now if you’re talking about multiple people using the same body at once, well it's like the cyborgs in GitS sharing their eyes, information can get passed around in all manner of ways, although if you’re asking about people's thoughts/feelings being shared, there's a bit of a taboo on that (it's not something that just happens) but people still do it, despite the risk of getting caught in a feedback loop, which is like going insane by staring into a mirror, but much faster.

 

[Bird]

No point letting good meat go to waste, indeed in a world where people starve to death every day it's just downright immoral.


*5min blank stare*

Oooh you mean the story, I'm still working on it of course, as in I'll get around to it eventually, exactly what kind of INTP do you think I am?


I don't really understand the question, in the story proxies are treated not unlike clothing, some are shared, some are job specific, some are toys to play with (like scuba gear) while others are only used for special occasions. Indeed many places, like a cinema, will have proxies on-site so people don't have to travel there at all, they can just pop in and pop out.

Now if you’re talking about multiple people using the same body at once, well it's like the cyborgs in GitS sharing their eyes, information can get passed around in all manner of ways, although if you’re asking about people's thoughts/feelings being shared, there's a bit of a taboo on that (it's not something that just happens) but people still do it, despite the risk of getting caught in a feedback loop, which is like going insane by staring into a mirror, but much faster.

I was thinking acute schizophrenia, actually.


I was inadvertently asking you if you thought
that most schizophrenic people tend to be
detached.

 

[Cognisant]

No, I think thier wires are fucked up.

Also: (read all of it)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SplitPersonality

 

[snafupants]

That certainly would have been a different ending to Harold and Maude.

 

[JoeJoe]

It also reminds me of a story I was once working on, based in a post-singularity world where using proxy bodies (remote controlled robots and wired up biological bodies) is perfectly normal and it has completely changed human culture.

That reminds me of another story I once read, Meathouse Man by George R.R. Martin. It's based in a world where prisoners of war undergo some brain surgery or something, so that they are just a lifeless corpse so to speak with just the vegetational functions intact.

Then there are some people who are able to control these bodies through some kind of thechnology and the real pros can control multiple bodies, the less sophisticated maybe only manage some ungainly movements.

Don't continue if you want to read it. But keep in mind that this part is relevant to the thread topic.

Spoiler

The bodies are used for all sorts of things such as mining, gladiator fights and - this is why I mention it - prostitution. The client controls the female body himself. So sex is perfectly synchronized if you have talent. In the story the main character at first thinks there is somebody else controlling the body and is impressed at how good that person is, unknowing that his subconcious was in control (or something, right now it doesn't make perfect sense). Later he lets the woman play out his little fantasies and so on...

 

[BigApplePi]

Why or why not?

Before I can answer this Q, I need to know if it will be a single or repeated act. Which?

 

[Bird]

Everyone wants to know all of these particulars.


I mean in general. Just as a general rule. When
people make laws there usually aren't exceptions.
No one is going to say "well, necrophilia is okay if
it's only done a number of times..."

Laws are black and white. They usually have to be.

 

[BigApplePi]

Everyone wants to know all of these particulars.


I mean in general. Just as a general rule. When
people make laws there usually aren't exceptions.
No one is going to say "well, necrophilia is okay if
it's only done a number of times..."

Laws are black and white. They usually have to be.

My insurance company in general raises the rate if I have an auto accident. However they forgive the first accident if it is minor.

I heard the law for felony offenses was you get regular sentencing for the first two offenses. But the third time they send you away for life. At least that's what I heard growing up. Don't know if that still holds and haven't googled it.

But back to the topic. What if two necrophiliacs are in love with each other and die simultaneously? Is it okay to be buried together assuming the position? (I just want to cover the bases for this important topic.)

 

[Bird]

Oh sweet jesus.

Hahahahahahahahah


Yes. I am just going to say yes.

 

[CoryJames]

Yes it should be illegal. Why, because its fucking weird as hell, disgusting, and just morally wrong in all ways. The end.

 

[Bird]

Your argument is so closed-minded.
Hahahaha.


And just to clear this up:

I am not into necrophilia (the thought
of the bacteria makes me cringe) I just
find it quite irrational the symbolism that
we place on human corpses. Like they're
special.

 

[EvilScientist Trainee]

I think of human corpses as shells that once were a home for a soul.

The point is that necrophilia may have it's offenses based on Christianity, that claims that the Body is the temple of God. Messing with the temple of God is wrong by that means. Specially if there's no one there to allow you in, which means you forced yourself inside.

Yet, the thought of having sex with an inanimate object is at the very least unhinged. The closer to reality that inanimate object is the more creepier it gets. I don't get sex dolls too, but it's a huge gap from fabricated plastic doll to what used to be a person with fears, worries, emotions and friends, family and personality.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Yes it should be illegal. Why, because its fucking weird as hell, disgusting, and just morally wrong in all ways. The end.

Perhaps you're not doing it right.

Going by your subjective criteria though, wouldn't goat's milk and Glenn Beck have to be made illegal too?

 

[BigApplePi]

Yes it should be illegal. Why, because its fucking weird as hell, disgusting, and just morally wrong in all ways. The end.

That is an excellent argument why it should be illegal. Now I want to hear the other side. Carry on.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

And just to clear this up:

I am not into necrophilia (the thought
of the bacteria makes me cringe) I just
find it quite irrational the symbolism that
we place on human corpses. Like they're
special.

It's okay. We know you like to get down and dirty in the ditches. And you made this thread to anticipate our reaction to your confession. We don't judge.

 

[echoplex]

While necrophilia may be harmless in most cases (excepting the living person contracting diseases), you have to consider the possible consequences if it were to be legal. If you say sex with the dead is legal, then the actual moment of death becomes, in many cases, the difference between a crime (rape) and a perfectly legal pastime. So, if some creep has been stalking you*, you reject them, and they don't want to go to prison, they may just wait for you to die for their chance at sexytime. Now, say you were to lose consciousness and appear dead. Would it be far-fetched to think an admirer (secret or not) might take that as a perfect opportunity? Or, what about a hospital employee who waits for patients to die before having some quality time: say they misjudge a patient's death, or a patient really does die but is later revived by doctors. The point is, making necro illegal might prevent such events.

Another thing: necrophilia could interfere with a criminal investigation. Say a woman is raped and murdered and then later someone else has sex with her now dead body. Before the necro the murderer's semen could be used to identify him (if his was the only there) but the necro's semen would force police to waste time questioning him as well, while the murderer might get away.

* I realize stalking is illegal in many places, but my greater point is the the knowledge of the legality of necrophilia can make someone paranoid that suitors are waiting for them die for their only chance (and will have no legal deterrent). Some people are fucking crazy.

 

[CoryJames]

I realize my argument is close minded but in all seriousness, there has to be a line somewhere where we get to say something is wrong because it just is. That is the problem with the American legal system, that we don't allow a judge or a jury of peers to draw that line.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Wait are we arguing meaty necrophilia or bony necrophilia? The latter is just sick.

 

[Agent Intellect]

A dead body, as far as I'm concerned, is an object. Therefore, it's treatment is left up to the owner - they can do whatever they want with it in private, as long as it isn't a public health risk. To make it illegal would be like making it illegal to have a sex doll. Plus, I prefer what I call the trifecta: pedonecrobestiality, or banging dead baby animals.

 

[BigApplePi]

A dead body, as far as I'm concerned, is an object. Therefore, it's treatment is left up to the owner - they can do whatever they want with it in private, as long as it isn't a public health risk.

Who is the owner?

 

[JoeJoe]

But back to the topic. What if two necrophiliacs are in love with each other and die simultaneously? Is it okay to be buried together assuming the position? (I just want to cover the bases for this important topic.)

Gunther von Hagens did this.

Spoiler

 

[Cognisant]

I think of human corpses as shells that once were a home for a soul.

And you call yourself an evil scientist?

Methinks you'll do better with an apprenticeship in voodoo.

 

[JoeJoe]

And you call yourself an evil scientist?

Emphasis is on "once were".

 

[BigApplePi]

And you call yourself an evil scientist?

He's only in training and can be expected to take a less than optimum road.

 

[JarNew]

Are you into Necrophilia OP?

I don't think so

They're not hurting anyone

lul

 

[Bird]

Read your threads thoroughly.


I feel slightly disrespected that
you felt the need to comment
without actually caring about the
thread at all. I'm sensitive though
so I'm sure this is highly irrational.


But if you had actually read the thread
you would have noticed that I've answered
this.

Are you into Necrophilia OP?

And just to clear this up:

I am not into necrophilia (the thought
of the bacteria makes me cringe) I just
find it quite irrational the symbolism that
we place on human corpses. Like they're
special.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

*in denial*

 

[JarNew]

I'm sorry for making you feel disrespected. I'll read your threads more throughly from now on.

The way I perceived "Do you think necrophilia should be considered a crime?"

was that answers are based on opinion. So I gave my opinion without caring to read others opinions because this is something I don't care to hear other's opinions on.

 

[Bird]

What are my climate options?

 

[JarNew]

I was asking because the severity of how it could be judged a crime depends greatly on the social beliefs of one's country.

Personally I don't believe it should be a crime because for one, sexuality is a very complex thing and I believe everyone who's not fully conditioned by the government has issues with sexuality.

I believe in subjective experience and pleasure from subjective experience as long as harm is not done to another person. An example would be rape, I believe rape is wrong and therefore it's a crime. Whereas necrophilism is not doing any harm to anyone and therefore it should not be a crime.

The problem with it is the availability of dead bodies and the morals of the corpses family members.



I seem to have offended you so I'll stop my jokes

 

[socialexpat]

What do you consider to be Necrofilia?

There have been known cases where the partner couldn't take distance of the beloved one who had departed at home.. They kept it silent and never reported it .. Without having sex with the corpse.
Somehow bizarre and sick so to speak .. On the other hand i can imagine good enough that old people can't take distance from their beloved one.. Especially if they where together for a lifetime, old people like habits don't forget that.
Shows that love is stronger than death .. And another reason why i can somehow understand it is .. That old people don't want to be lone if they are almost at the end of their days... Often, who would care about lone folks like them .. Right, no one.
I'm sure that a lot of them especially in China are in the same situation since it happens often there.

The other forms of Necrofilia are sick in my opinion, imagine that some sick asshole is playing with your deceased parents, daughter, son, wife, girlfriend .. ?
I'd rather take care of them myself if i could.
Don't know if anyone saw the video with the girl on the slab and some coroner who is messing around with her?

 

[Bird]

What do you consider to be Necrofilia?

There have been known cases where the partner couldn't take distance of the beloved one who had departed at home.. They kept it silent and never reported it .. Without having sex with the corpse.
Somehow bizarre and sick so to speak .. On the other hand i can imagine good enough that old people can't take distance from their beloved one.. Especially if they where together for a lifetime, old people like habits don't forget that.
Shows that love is stronger than death .. And another reason why i can somehow understand it is .. That old people don't want to be lone if they are almost at the end of their days... Often, who would care about lone folks like them .. Right, no one.
I'm sure that a lot of them especially in China are in the same situation since it happens often there.

The other forms of Necrofilia are sick in my opinion, imagine that some sick asshole is playing with your deceased parents, daughter, son, wife, girlfriend .. ?
I'd rather take care of them myself if i could.
Don't know if anyone saw the video with the girl on the slab and some coroner who is messing around with her?

I am fairly certain necrophilia is having sex
with a corpse so those that did not do that
would not be necrophiliacs..



A main point I would like to focus on, though
I tried to find the demographics on necrophiliacs,
I really don't think that most of them are old
people. I think most necrophiliacs are in the age
range of 30 - 50. Which is maybe you're idea of
old, but not mine. The reason I believe this is
because typically older males have erectile problems
and typically, necrophiliacs are males. Though
there are women necrophiliacs as well, they
just do not make up the majority.


But the thing is, that's not my son or my daughter
or my mother or any relation to me that could be
considered dear, it's merely the husk that they
inhabited, it's like becoming mad at someone for
using the shower in your dead lover's house.
The reason people find it upsetting is because of
the symbolism that humans have placed on the
body over the years. It's man-made. Other animals
eat their dead. As a species humans have become
so superior and conditioned it's disgusting.

 

[burtstanton]

Are you disgusted with yourself for being as superior and conditioned as the rest of us?

 

[socialexpat]

I am fairly certain necrophilia is having sex
with a corpse so those that did not do that
would not be necrophiliacs..



A main point I would like to focus on, though
I tried to find the demographics on necrophiliacs,
I really don't think that most of them are old
people. I think most necrophiliacs are in the age
range of 30 - 50. Which is maybe you're idea of
old, but not mine. The reason I believe this is
because typically older males have erectile problems
and typically, necrophiliacs are males. Though
there are women necrophiliacs as well, they
just do not make up the majority.


But the thing is, that's not my son or my daughter
or my mother or any relation to me that could be
considered dear, it's merely the husk that they
inhabited, it's like becoming mad at someone for
using the shower in your dead lover's house.
The reason people find it upsetting is because of
the symbolism that humans have placed on the
body over the years. It's man-made. Other animals
eat their dead. As a species humans have become
so superior and conditioned it's disgusting.

I'm fairly certain it is not ..
In psychology that would make a tendency towards Necrophilia and i never said they are actual Necro's or that the elder have sex with their deceased wife, we all know that the majority old people have erection problems. I was speaking about the elder that don't like the change or saying goodbye for good and the love for their deceased partner that they don't want to erase.

"Rosman and Resnick (1989) reviewed information from 34 cases of necrophilia describing the individuals' motivations for their behaviors: these individuals reported the desire to possess an unresisting and unrejecting partner (68%), reunions with a romantic partner (21%), sexual attraction to corpses (15%), comfort or overcoming feelings of isolation (15%), or seeking self-esteem by expressing power over a homicide victim (12%).[2]"

Ofcourse that Necrophiliacs are active males who have easy acces since it is their profession .. Someone who's retired wont be found in a morgue between multiple corpses.
True, it's al a way of social rules .. Do you think something diffirent maybe?

 

[Bird]

I'm having a really hard time comprehending
what is going on.


Were you just speculating that old people are
more prone to be necrophiliacs? I'm having
a difficult time understanding why you mentioned
the elderly. Are you trying to explain to me
that older generations don't like change so they
will seek intimacy with the deceased partner?
Not necessarily a sexual act? But intimacy?


Based upon the information you provided pertaining
to necrophiliacal motivations 36% of necrophiliacs
have these tendencies due to the dislike of change,
as you would say. In turn this means that 64% have
these tendencies due to other causes.
Furthermore, I'm unsure why you're presenting me
with this information because,

In psychology that would make a tendency towards Necrophilia and i never said they are actual Necro's or that the elder have sex with their deceased wife, we all know that the majority old people have erection problems. I was speaking about the elder that don't like the change or saying goodbye for good and the love for their deceased partner that they don't want to erase.

If you were speaking about the elderly
that don't like change, but you weren't
saying they were necrophiliacs why were
you giving me information to support my
misinterpretation?


I just thought I should include this.
I can't remember why.

nec·ro·phil·i·a

   
[nek-ruh-fil-ee-uh]
–noun Psychiatry .
an erotic attraction to corpses.
Origin:
1890–95; < Neo-Latin; see necro-, -philia

—Related forms
nec·ro·phile  
[nek-ruh-fahyl] , noun
nec·ro·phil·i·ac  
[nek-ruh-fil-ee-ak] , nec·ro·phil·ic, adjective, noun