Dating an INTP - Sharing feelings

[Kenny]

Hello guys and girls.

For the past two months i have been dating a female INTP, and a majority of our communication about our feelings is missing. I'm an INTP as well. I have plenty of subjects that i want to talk about, such as how great i think she is and how i feel towards her. I've been using small teasers, to get some feedback on her level of verbal emotional communication, such as "I miss you". A typical response from her would be something like "You will see me soon again", instead of a more direct response such as "I miss you too".

We respect each other greatly, communicate well on a daily basis, have fun and our physical relationship is very well explored by anything from holding hands to sexual activity.

It gives a nice flow to the relationship, there is no drama, we just enjoy each other. However i would like to get some verbal emotional feedback from her of some sort and right now i'm just confused.

I haven't brought this subject up with her directly, just giving hints such as studying of our INTP'ness

Please discuss, suggestions or experience is appreciated.

 

[Ribald]

Take her to see My Dog Skip or something.

 

[RadicalDreamer31]

The emotions of the INTP are raw, unfiltered, and intense. But they are behind many self imposed barriers. Do not prod, push, or poke. You will be accepting in time. Be available be, appreciative for what she is and what happens between the two of you.

This follow link might help: Dating an INTP

 

[Kenny]

The emotions of the INTP are raw, unfiltered, and intense. But they are behind many self imposed barriers. Do not prod, push, or poke. You will be accepting in time. Be available be, appreciative for what she is and what happens between the two of you.

This follow link might help: Dating an INTP

Haha, i'm gonna sweep her off her feet with that information! (Self-confidence)

Very good information indeed, please continue adding information and experience

 

[Grayman]

"You will see me soon again", instead of a more direct response such as "I miss you too".

What do you think she means by that? Why would she say it that way? I have take on that but you know her better than I.

 

[Kenny]

What do you think she means by that? Why would she say it that way? I have take on that but you know her better than I.

Well i have some different theories.

1. She is scared of the feeling that she likes me and don't won't to jeopardize that with emotional drama, because we are in a good place right now.

2. She feels threatened by my comments and does not want to progress the relationship further.

3.... *Brain fart*

 

[Grayman]

Well i have some different theories.

1. She is scared of the feeling that she likes me and don't won't to jeopardize that with emotional drama, because we are in a good place right now.

2. She feels threatened by my comments and does not want to progress the relationship further.

3.... *Brain fart*

3. Her feelings are not at the same level as yours.

* She thinks it is unreasonble to miss someone after that period of time and when you are going to see eachother so soon.
* You want her to be at the same level, as would be expected of anyone. You desire this very much and maybe even say "I miss you" more often than you should in hopes she may say it back.
*She feels you say it to often and does not want to encourage you.
*Pheraps you are hoping your affection will be noticed and she will love you more for it.

IDK really but that is the story that played out in my head.

 

[Fukyo]

3.... *Brain fart*

To me it seems like you want her to mirror you in a more emotional way, while she might be affirming your feelings in a more practical sense - 'you will see me soon again'. She might also be downplaying her feelings and attachment so as to not seem needy, or the worst case option, she doesn't miss you as much as you do.

 

[Kenny]

To me it seems like you want her to mirror you in a more emotional way, while she might be affirming your feelings in a more practical sense - 'you will see me soon again'. She might also be downplaying her feelings and attachment so as to not seem needy, or the worst case option, she doesn't miss you as much as you do.

Correct, we already discussed this and laughed about it

Edit: The part that I'm more emotional

 

[Grayman]

or the worst case option, she doesn't miss you as much as you do.

Not to get too off topic but…

I've thought about this a bit and realized that this is an inevitable result of every relationship. Therefore not a worst case but probable and overcomable.
Not to say that the other person does not have feelings, but that the other person is rarely at the same emotional level. I guess it is simply a matter of how much distance there is and if it you can be satisfied with what you can get out of it.

 

[Grayman]

Correct, we already discussed this and laughed about it

Edit: The part that I'm more emotional

IDK

What is "missing" someone anyways and why did it not occur to her that you would not be consoled by her statement?

I suppose she thought you would find relief in the hope or that she is coming back and not to worry. This is still shows a very different need and love from her. I see it as a purer love in that it is compassionate and disregarding of her own needs. "Almost motherly but only in the sense that is based of compassion and empathy and not based on the need of affection like common young relationships."

Missing someone is basically a selfish need in a literal sense. Wanting someone’s attention or affection or even just having them around so you can feel more comfortable and happy.

The thing is that most people want to be missed because they want to be wanted and the statement validates this. People who want need to feel wanted.

Anyways, the question is if she simply does not care if you are there to keep her company or not, or does she value your wellbeing greatly and hers so little that "missing you" was not the greatest concern?

Perhaps I am digging to much but I like to delve in the psyche of the mind so that I may better understand people.

 

[lucky12]

Am I missing obvious signs here, or was she only saying a goodbye?

@Kenny if you spank her and she likes it don't worry about empirical evidence.

@Grayman you should plot your ideas on a nice pie chart. something with apple in it.

 

[Duxwing]

@Kenny Tell her what you told us. Direct communication generally decides matters, and I see four principal outcomes:

1 She feels likewise, and your relationship greatly improves (+10)
2 She feels otherwise, and your relationship stagnates until she does (-1)
3 She feels likewise, and your relationship suffers drama (-5)
4 She feels otherwise, and your relationship suffers drama (-5)

Intuitively assuming that the outcome is random, telling her has a value of (10 - 1 - 5 - 5) / 4 or -0.25. This intuitive assumption is wrong because outcome three is absurd: if she feels likewise, then drama will almost certainly not ensue.

Telling her therefore has a value of (10 - 1 - 5) / 4 + (-5) * 0 or 1.5. Any rational agent should tell her. You are a rational agent. Therefore you should tell her. This valuation is true unless you reasonably worry that telling her might end your relationship; ending the relationship would have an infinitely negative value.

-Duxwing

 

[Grayman]

Am I missing obvious signs here, or was she only saying a goodbye?

You are missing many things it seems.

All decisions and phrasings and choice of words and tones are chosen for a reason, even if that reason is not directly known by even the person who did the action. I just like to see beyond the surface and into those workings deep within.

 

[redbaron]

Two people don't need to feel the same way at the same time. I've always found it a bit ludicrous the way people have this expectation that someone is supposed to reciprocate feelings of affection. Does she really need to return affection? Why can't you say you miss her because you want her to know, without the requirement for validation in return?

I'm probably the odd one out here, because I'm hypersensitive to any situation where myself or someone else has any kind of expectation upon them to act or be a certain way. Expecting someone else to return affections is to me, subverting the most important purpose of expressing affection in the first place. The idea of telling anyone that I want them to respond to affections in a particular way, potentially against their desire or contrary to their reasoning - so that I can feel, "validated" makes me shudder.

You can trace this pattern of unwritten expectations to many of the problems that arise in relationships I think.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Speaking as an intp female; I simply don't miss people and emotional blackmail/coercion, once solidly identified, would send me running as fast as I could and you'd never see me again.

I suggest that you simply let it be. Love coerced is not love at all. There's nothing wrong with patience, and letting it come on its own makes it genuine. I think it's awful that most people tend to act and believe they're entitled to the affections of others. Expressing affection for the sole reason of trying to have it returned, is hollow and deceptive.

 

[_Mia_]

I have to agree with Adaire. I simply don't miss people. Or rather, I need plenty of space to be able to think about the person, usually in wondering what they're doing, and then I might miss them and approach them.

In fact, I have a really bad feeling in my gut from reading this and remembering the times people have told me they miss me. The feeling isn't one I like.

I hate being missed unless it's after enough time that you probably should start to miss someone. It screams "GIVE ME ATTENTION", something that if I hear will send me running for the hills. I don't want anyone to need my time or company, because I feel I only have a limited amount of time to give any one person. I enjoy and need my alone time too much to have pressure placed on me like that. I have someone who really likes me message me "I miss you =/" last night, and I ignored it thinking "Oh ffs." I mean, other types might think, "Aaw, that's sweet, somebody misses me, I'm being thought of!" I think, "Oh God, another needy person who's probably going to get pissed off that I'm naturally more distant in communication and will demand/expect too much and then we'll never talk again." Sounds extreme, it probably is. Like another user said: do not prod, push, or poke. EVER. Just be interesting, cool, nonchalant, casual... slowly, slowly. I find consistently bugging me to chat but NOT involving emotions is a good way for me to eventually have my emotions open up to you - in my OWN time.

I often say "you will see me again soon" when I'm told that I'm being missed. It means: "Please, spare me the emotions, you don't need to be missing me or waiting on me, we'll see each other again soon and until then, occupy yourself with something that isn't me or I'm likely to get put off. kthx."

 

[tvrgvryen]

A typical response from her would be something like "You will see me soon again", instead of a more direct response such as "I miss you too".

haha i would say something like that. or "when are you coming? i'm gonna be at (location) at that time. be there." i guess it's kind of awkward. i don't like to talk gooey or to express my emotions directly, even if it's to my boyfriend. it's like i don't want him to know that i like him even though we're already in a relationship.

 

[Justin81]

I often say "you will see me again soon" when I'm told that I'm being missed. It means: "Please, spare me the emotions, you don't need to be missing me or waiting on me, we'll see each other again soon and until then, occupy yourself with something that isn't me or I'm likely to get put off. kthx."

Love it! ^ Great paragraph.


I'm married. My wife say she loves me. I respond with "I know." In my eyes, that's an appropriate response since, honestly, what she is saying shouldn't warrant a response anyway.

When you tell her you miss her, There is no reciprocal response implied. You're not asking her a question or seeking information you're simply making a comment. Expecting her to give you a response is basically an ambush by asking her to present artificial emotions. That's not fair to her and i'd be surprised if she was annoyed by it.

Here's the answer. Rephrase your objective. Approach her with "Do you think you'll miss me if we don't see each other?" You'll probably respond with a "Probably" or even something better. Be happy with that.

 

[Grayman]

Speaking as an intp female; I simply don't miss people and emotional blackmail/coercion, once solidly identified, would send me running as fast as I could and you'd never see me again.

You cannot be certain that this is the case, at least no more certain than I can be that you are letting your fears lead you to paranoia.

 

[Jennywocky]

Wait, where's Kenny? I bet he want to spank her and she didn't like it.

OMG, she killed Kenny! That bastard!

emotional blackmail/coercion, once solidly identified, would send me running as fast as I could and you'd never see me again.

I'm very wary of coercion, blackmail, and entrenchment... especially if it's through not-quite-so-sneaky-but-blatantly-underhanded behavior.

I'm married. My wife say she loves me. I respond with "I know." In my eyes, that's an appropriate response since, honestly, what she is saying shouldn't warrant a response anyway.

When you tell her you miss her, There is no reciprocal response implied. You're not asking her a question or seeking information you're simply making a comment. Expecting her to give you a response is basically an ambush by asking her to present artificial emotions. That's not fair to her and i'd be surprised if she was annoyed by it.

Here's the answer. Rephrase your objective. Approach her with "Do you think you'll miss me if we don't see each other?" You'll probably respond with a "Probably" or even something better. Be happy with that.

I think this advice makes sense since he's dealing with an INTP female.

However, I'm kinda surprised your wife hasn't flipped out a bit when she gets this from you, unless she really understands you and truly wasn't looking for more than what you offered.

Yes, technically, the phrase, "Miss you," grammatically does not demand a response and is simply a descriptive phrase. But that is not how most people use it, and they will judge your response based on how THEY were using it, not on whether you were "technically" correct in your response. If they used it to mean, "I miss you and hope you miss me too," you will at best seem elusive and at worst uncaring. I've just seen it go so badly with other couples. (well, admittedly, it also did not go over well in my defunct marriage, after a time.)

I wonder how common it is for INTPs to interbreed, since at least we understand each other's lexicon.

 

[Grayman]

Jeeze guys or girls really. Missing someone is not "Being dependent of them". In the simplest of terms it means you notice they are not around. Lets not let our craving for independence confuse us into thinking we don't miss "anyone". We ‘all’ like having someone around but it does not mean we ‘need’ them around. If you spend any large amount of time without someone /married/living together you do end up noticing a difference when they are gone. It is only honesty to say that you missed them. It is also good for them to know how you are feeling once in awhile.

 

[Jennywocky]

Jeeze guys or girls really. Missing someone is not "Being dependent of them". In the simplest of terms it means you notice they are not around. Lets not let our craving for independence confuse us into thinking we don't miss "anyone". We ‘all’ like having someone around but it does not mean we ‘need’ them around. If you spend any large amount of time without someone /married/living together you do end up noticing a difference when they are gone. It is only honesty to say that you missed them. It is also good for them to know how you are feeling once in awhile.

Yeah, didn't anyone ever see "Ghost"?

I think it's the logical exactitude parsing the language, as well as the "non-ownership" of emotions / view of them as an untrustworthy external influence.

I've changed alot over the years of being in relationships, but I forget how much until I participate in some of the threads and then remember how I used to respond to some things in relationships.

And you're right, I will never "need" someone... but I've found that I now do actually "miss" people even if I can be productive with my time and am self-sufficient.

 

[Justin81]

However, I'm kinda surprised your wife hasn't flipped out a bit when she gets this from you, unless she really understands you and truly wasn't looking for more than what you offered.

My wife has grown to understand me. I didn't just get like this. We have known each other since kids and I have never been any different. It irritates her on occasion but I can sense the times when she's actually awaiting a response and fortunately, she's happy with a simple :I love you too." She will mention from time to time that I need to be more emotional and express feelings for her. I used to debate the topic but now I try to invest my 50% as she is understanding with my needs. She has got to a point now where she'll say I'm going out on Thursday and you can have some INTP time. lol. WIN!

 

[Grayman]

My wife has grown to understand me. I didn't just get like this. We have known each other since kids and I have never been any different. It irritates her on occasion but I can sense the times when she's actually awaiting a response and fortunately, she's happy with a simple :I love you too." She will mention from time to time that I need to be more emotional and express feelings for her. I used to debate the topic but now I try to invest my 50% as she is understanding with my needs. She has got to a point now where she'll say I'm going out on Thursday and you can have some INTP time. lol. WIN!

Why is it important to be grammatically correct in this case at all? Grammar is for communication and you know what she is really saying. Lets be practical.

It is obvious there is a more to the issue than you seem to accept, more to it than grammar. If it simply discomfort in expressing yourself in such ways then so be it, but at least that would be more understandable to your wife than grammatical issues, and it is something you can work on because it is real.

But then it unlikely you would want to work on it. Who likes being uncomfortable? It is just what we do for those we love i guess, and also to improve ourselves and make our own lives more managable.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

You cannot be certain that this is the case, at least no more certain than I can be that you are letting your fears lead you to paranoia.

Yes, I can. How could I not be? This doesn't make sense.
I've done it before and will probably do it again as necessary. I know exactly what I can tolerate and exactly what I can offer. Historically, I'm very good at identifying when relationships will not be worthwhile for either party.

I think your general rudeness on this thread is highly unwarranted. You might consider checking you defensiveness.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

Not to belabor this thread but to interject some perspective...There is always a high and low desire partner in every relationship. They are relative positions and they play out in various themes and choices such as sex, intimacy, declaration of feelings, having children, shared housework. The list is endless. Even if both want the same thing, one will want it more relative to the other. You can see this most clearly once there is conflict, who fills which position (high or low desire). No one is the low desire (or high desire) partner on everything and positions shift of different issues. There is also no 'correct' position to take. It's simply inherent to a relationship system.

The person who has the least desire (on any given topic), is the one who controls the issue, whether or not he/she wants the control. This is the ecological fact of the system of relationships. Problems often arise if the high desire partner feels controlled and assigns this motivation to the other (which may or may not be the case). With regards to the OP, it doesn't appear you are overly offended or insecure about your girlfriend's lack of overt declaration of caring but you'd like some reciprocity. It's best to be direct. Just know that there is nothing wrong going on and this type of high to low position will crop up on any number of issues. That doesn't mean you don't get to express what you want, just don't ascribe too much into the fact that she's less verbally affectionate than you.

 

[Grayman]

I think your general rudeness on this thread is highly unwarranted. You might consider checking you defensiveness.

I was afraid I was being upsetting but tried to avoid it. It was my attempt only at providing prospective, things to look for or avoid but I do not fully know what you think or who you are. I know only what little I am given and it is only with that little that I can work with. You certainly can ignore me if you find me upsetting but then why do you find me upsetting? Perhaps you can help me understand how I am being rude. Upsetting, perhaps, but rude and highly unwarranted? Must anyone be justified to be able to state things how they see it? They are but my perceptions. They are not judgments. I gave them to you to do with them as you will.

 

[redbaron]

 

[Grayman]

Thank you redbaron. I always appreciate your criticism. It is good to know when I sound like a baboon or bafoon whichever it is. I only wish you also included more constructive statements with your icon.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

 

[Grayman]

Thank you adaire. I always appreciate your criticism. It is good to know when I sound like a baboon or bafoon whichever it is. I only wish you also included more constructive statements with your icon.

 

[Jennywocky]

My wife has grown to understand me. I didn't just get like this. We have known each other since kids and I have never been any different. It irritates her on occasion but I can sense the times when she's actually awaiting a response and fortunately, she's happy with a simple :I love you too." She will mention from time to time that I need to be more emotional and express feelings for her. I used to debate the topic but now I try to invest my 50% as she is understanding with my needs. She has got to a point now where she'll say I'm going out on Thursday and you can have some INTP time. lol. WIN!

Cool beans... that's a good place to be.

I was also figuring (although I didn't mention it earlier) that, if she does know you well, it might even have become a joke of sorts between the two of you.

 

[greenspace]

I think she might have been trying to console you. To me, the perfect response to " I miss you" is exactly that; " We will see again soon". Its logical, accurate, consolatory and is the solution to my spouse's problem.

However some people just generally have problems showing emotions. You guys have been dating for 2 months which is not a very long time.

Also if you guys live in the same city; " I miss you" generally sounds clingy.

 

[rushgirl2112]

This is a woman you don't even describe as your girlfriend, whom you've been dating for just two months. You say you are communicating with her daily. But yet you miss her? And you expect her not only to miss you too, but to express it in the way you want her to?

Sorry, but that sounds awfully emotionally needy to me. You should probably be happy that she's giving you a light and friendly response instead of being put off by it. In fact, I'd strongly suggest not making any more of an issue out of it now, because her tolerance level for it may not be much greater.

I can't speak for her, but as an INTP woman, I resent being expected to verbalize emotions so directly, and here's why. Words are cheap. Demonstration is where it's at. Anyone can say, "I miss you," or "I love you," or "I'm sorry" without putting any effort or thought into it. Without other evidence, they're meaningless. And with evidence, they're redundant. Which is not to say that you shouldn't ever say them or want to hear them from time to time, but you shouldn't expect someone to use them as constant reassurance of something that she's already expressing in other ways.

Personally, I find emotions to be far too complex to express verbally using trite phrases. For example, I might express that I miss someone by eagerly accepting the next date, by the look in my eyes when we get together after being apart for awhile, by saying that I heard a song the other day that reminded me of him, and so forth. I might express love by the look in my eyes, by pointing out the qualities he has that I find admirable, by talking about our relationship and how happy it makes me, etc.

If I'm already expressing those things, I may not see the need to say, "I miss you," or "I love you" all the time. Not only am I already expressing it, but I'm doing so in a superior way! (At least, that's my thought process.) So I would consider his expression of missing me to have been reciprocated already. And if he got upset that I didn't say it back to him in his way, then I'd conclude that either he wasn't paying any attention, or that the real purpose of his communication wasn't to make me feel valued but to get me to make him feel valued. Or most likely both.

It's passive-aggressive, and that's something I have very little patience for. Especially because I'm far too analytical to be fooled by it.

I can handle a bit of neediness. Hell, I'm the type that likes to be needed. But that's for serious relationships. If a guy is expecting that much emotional reassurance after just a couple of months of dating, that would make me uncomfortable. I might tolerate it if I really, really liked the guy, but that's the thing . . . it's neutral at best, and off-putting at worst. Really no benefit that I can see.

And no, I wouldn't tell him directly, even if he asked. I'm too worried about hurting someone's feelings to be that blunt in that stage of a relationship. I would probably brush it off lightly like she's doing and hope that he took the hint.

My recommendation is to focus on expressing your attraction to her, with major preference being given to something that requires more thought and effort than a couple of words, and leave it at that. If she wants to express emotions to you, she will. Just make sure that you're paying attention, because she may not be doing it in the same way that you do. But even if she doesn't, save that conversation for whenever you're ready to take the relationship to the next level. Dating someone is about building attraction, not having all your emotional needs met.

 

[Grayman]

This is a woman you don't even describe as your girlfriend, whom you've been dating for just two months. You say you are communicating with her daily. But yet you miss her? And you expect her not only to miss you too, but to express it in the way you want her to?

Sometimes I just wish a woman would tell me she hated my guts so that I did not have to feel like they were sneaking around afraid to tell me the truth. Am I wasting my time here or what!

I don't like it when women avoid telling me how they feel. I trust them enough to handle my feelings however they please. No expectations except honesty. What is everyone so afraid of being manipulated for? I cannot make my wife do anything even if I wanted to and I like it that way. You cannot be manipulated emotionally if you have control of your own feelings. Control, not blocking them out.

Knowing the feelings of the partner is essential and important in a relationship. If a guy cannot say his feelings without someone running away in fear then what kind of relationship is that? By the way, don't anyone else call me rude because you are just manipulating me into lying to you from now on.

Were are talking about "missing someone" Not getting them pregnant so they won't leave you type of thing.

 

[Duxwing]

@rushgirl You seemingly describe a complex (Ti) intellectually-stimulating (Ne) end-around direct emotional expression (Fe). I wonder whether you when deciding how to express yourself experience a conflict-of-interest between caring for your partner and avoiding Fe, which INTPs and therefore you generally avoid. Furthermore, direct emotional expression between people who trust and therefore become vulnerable to each other is neither meaningless nor redundant: it is a reactive, tender, 'outpouring' of emotion that receiving partners, emotionally-linked, validate and feel.

Whereas indirect expression, like you imply, is better when words are insufficient; e.g., gently embracing and holding a sobbing person is deeply compassionate and loving. It should not replace direct expression lest relationships should require endless mutual psychoanalysis, which can stress even INFPs.

-Duxwing

 

[redbaron]

Knowing the feelings of the partner is essential and important in a relationship. If a guy cannot say his feelings without someone running away in fear then what kind of relationship is that?

No one said he can't say, "I miss you". He just shouldn't say it with the expectation of reciprocation. By all means say that you love, miss or adore someone - but there's no onus on them to respond in kind.

The point is that saying these things because you're looking for emotional validation is not why they should be said. When I say I love my partner, I don't care if she responds back the same way - I'm just expressing my emotions, which aren't contingent on them being equal or mutual. I'm sure I love/have loved some people more than they loved me, and vice-versa. Why should it matter?

 

[Grayman]

No one said he can't say, "I miss you". He just shouldn't say it with the expectation of reciprocation. By all means say that you love, miss or adore someone - but there's no onus on them to respond in kind.

The point is that saying these things because you're looking for emotional validation is not why they should be said. When I say I love my partner, I don't care if she responds back the same way - I'm just expressing my emotions, which aren't contingent on them being equal or mutual. I'm sure I love/have loved some people more than they loved me, and vice-versa. Why should it matter?

He gave no indication that he was saying "I miss you" for any such reason or even often.
I posted this because I suspected the possibility but was unsure.

http://intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=427945&postcount=7

After this, people seemed to be concentrated on this idea and a few even said they never miss people. I sensed a general fear of emotional attachment. I did not like the idea that people would be afraid to express their emotions. I don't think the guy should have to worry about saying "I miss you", anymore than I think the woman should have to worry about it being manipulation.

They should never feel they have to reciprocate an expected response, or something is wrong with themselves or with the person they are with. For me personally I take full responsibility for my emotions and do fear others manipulation. I suppose this makes it harder for me to sympathize with their side of things. I apologize if that has been the case. I also appreciate your comments and notifying me of your point of view and how you feel I failed in this discussion. I will try to be more understanding and not jump to conclusions myself.



I have known boys who do such things mostly do to lack of self confidence. They seek constant acknowlegment. I was curious if this might be the case at first but it seemed very unlikely after some thought. I knew lack of confidence and neediness is unattractive to women, but I did not know how much emotional turmoil it caused them.

 

[redbaron]

He gave no indication that he was saying "I miss you" for any such reason or even often.

He said it word for word.

I've been using small teasers, to get some feedback on her level of verbal emotional communication, such as "I miss you". A typical response from her would be something like "You will see me soon again", instead of a more direct response such as "I miss you too".

...

However i would like to get some verbal emotional feedback from her of some sort and right now i'm just confused.

 

[Grayman]

He said it word for word.

I can see now how it can be read that way. I still feel my understanding is more accurate, but it is my understanding so it is to be expected.

I read it as him trying to determine the level of emotional standing in the relationship she has. I did not read it as him trying to get affection out of her to meet his emotional needs.

 

[walfin]

I know the phrase "You will see me soon again" has been discussed to death in this thread, but...

OMG! Totally INTP response! Lol.

I used to give such responses when I was an INTP.

 

[rushgirl2112]

This is a woman you don't even describe as your girlfriend, whom you've been dating for just two months. You say you are communicating with her daily. But yet you miss her? And you expect her not only to miss you too, but to express it in the way you want her to?

Sometimes I just wish a woman would tell me she hated my guts so that I did not have to feel like they were sneaking around afraid to tell me the truth. Am I wasting my time here or what!

I don't like it when women avoid telling me how they feel. I trust them enough to handle my feelings however they please. No expectations except honesty. What is everyone so afraid of being manipulated for? I cannot make my wife do anything even if I wanted to and I like it that way. You cannot be manipulated emotionally if you have control of your own feelings. Control, not blocking them out.

Knowing the feelings of the partner is essential and important in a relationship. If a guy cannot say his feelings without someone running away in fear then what kind of relationship is that? By the way, don't anyone else call me rude because you are just manipulating me into lying to you from now on.

Were are talking about "missing someone" Not getting them pregnant so they won't leave you type of thing.

I'm really unclear on how this relates to the passage of mine that you're quoting.

I was saying that it's emotionally needy for someone who has been dating a woman for just two months and who communicates with her daily to be saying, "I miss you" with the expectation of eliciting the same response from her.

What on earth does that have to do with women not sharing their emotions?

And I have no idea at all what you're saying in your last sentence.

 

[Duxwing]

Trying to feel someone out deceives them about your feelings and intentions, and deception generally is immoral. Just share and care.

-Duxwing

 

[rushgirl2112]

@rushgirl You seemingly describe a complex (Ti) intellectually-stimulating (Ne) end-around direct emotional expression (Fe). I wonder whether you when deciding how to express yourself experience a conflict-of-interest between caring for your partner and avoiding Fe, which INTPs and therefore you generally avoid. Furthermore, direct emotional expression between people who trust and therefore become vulnerable to each other is neither meaningless nor redundant: it is a reactive, tender, 'outpouring' of emotion that receiving partners, emotionally-linked, validate and feel.

Whereas indirect expression, like you imply, is better when words are insufficient; e.g., gently embracing and holding a sobbing person is deeply compassionate and loving. It should not replace direct expression lest relationships should require endless mutual psychoanalysis, which can stress even INFPs.

-Duxwing

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that I oppose direct emotional expression. I oppose the overuse of trite, easily-said-whether-you-mean-it-or-not language to express it.

I am not by any means excluding verbal expression. In fact, as you say, it's necessary. It's just that I prefer mine to be in the form of something that involves some actual thought and awareness. "I miss you" is something you can say in your sleep. If you say it often, it becomes just a meaningless reflex, like someone asking, "How are you?" and the other person responding, "Fine."

Actually, I talk QUITE a lot, and my husband and I have long and frequent conversations about our relationship and our emotional states.* So it's not really about actions vs. words. It's about high quality vs. low quality.

But if you're going to look at actions vs. words, I can't agree that the former is indirect. For example, putting love into practice is a hell of a lot more direct than merely talking about its existence. It's like the difference between saying you're going to go to Paris (which may or may not be true) vs. actually going.

*Note: This level of emotional communication is not the sort of thing that someone who is dating someone for a couple of months should expect. If it happens naturally, that's great and no problem . . . but prodding people into doing it is a big risk. There's a good chance they'll see it as needy and/or pushy and move on.

 

[Grayman]

I'm really unclear on how this relates to the passage of mine that you're quoting.

I was saying that it's emotionally needy for someone who has been dating a woman for just two months and who communicates with her daily to be saying, "I miss you" with the expectation of eliciting the same response from her.

What on earth does that have to do with women not sharing their emotions?

And I have no idea at all what you're saying in your last sentence.

It is more than likely...
He wasn't looking for his needs to be met. He was only trying to determine her feelings toward him, whatever they may be. Because he thought she was a afraid of expressing himself, and did not want to scare her away, he did it with small gestures instead of coming out and asking. When he did finally just come out and ask. He realized she was a big girl and that they both like each other, and it pays to just speak plainly. I don't blame him for trying to see how she feels because who wants to be in a relationship where the other person is either indifferent or does not like you.

I am sorry if I jumped on you its just that it seems very obvious he simply is trying to get communication going with this girl, as that is what he stated in the OP, and everyone seems to think "NEEDY". It's like its a females INTP's greatest fear, so they are always on guard for it, so it is the first thing they see before they have a chance to consider the other evidence. I suggest you reread the OP and his later comments. If I am wrong let me know so that I don't keep thinking I am right when I am not.

 

[Justin81]

Cool beans... that's a good place to be.

I was also figuring (although I didn't mention it earlier) that, if she does know you well, it might even have become a joke of sorts between the two of you.

It is. I joke about it a lot and so does she. But I won't lie, it took a few stressful years to get here. She is an ESFJ so we are like oil and water. In some ways it's beneficial but in most it's just the battle of David and Goliath.



Me >



Her >

 

[SpaceYeti]

Put it in her butt.

I wish I had a problem with women being emotionally unavailable. My wife has so many emotions that I have to deal with them more than I have to deal with my own. She cares about all this stuff, and I don't know why, and I try to be as understanding as possible, but it's difficult. The golden rule is a good baseline, but if I treat her how I want to be treated, I'm a negligent asshole.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, just letting you know that not all women are so self-reliant, emotionally speaking.

 

[Justin81]

Put it in her butt.

My wife has so many emotions that I have to deal with them more than I have to deal with my own. .

Welcome to my life. Well said though.

 

[ddspada]

I resent being expected to verbalize emotions so directly, and here's why. Words are cheap. Demonstration is where it's at. Anyone can say, "I miss you," or "I love you," or "I'm sorry" without putting any effort or thought into it. Without other evidence, they're meaningless. And with evidence, they're redundant. Which is not to say that you shouldn't ever say them or want to hear them from time to time, but you shouldn't expect someone to use them as constant reassurance of something that she's already expressing in other ways.

This.

I had an ESFP girlfriend who would say (over facebook or text messages, mostly) things of the sort ("I miss you", "I wish I were with you right now"). We went to the same school, saw each other almost every weekday around an hour and often we went out on Sundays as well. She did expect me to write back similar phrases. I, too, answered "We'll see each other on Monday/ tomorrow/ in three days". When in face-to-face conversation, she would lightly poke at ideas such as me being indifferent or cold when not in face-to-face conversation and not understanding why.
I offered a couple of times (three, maybe four?) to drive to her house to see her right after having received such messages. Her answer would then be along the lines of "You've said it yourself, we'll see each other soon / I'm out with friends already / there's no need".

It drove me nuts. Receiving messages like that and having her expect me to reply in (empty) kind was irritating and tiresome enough. When I brought the topic up she just said I needed to express my emotions more openly verbally (and via text messages if need be). It is at that point that agreeing to comply would have been agreeing to lie to her (I do not really miss you, it's been only two days. My emotions and yours are not the exact same, it's probably unhealthy for you to expect otherwise) but opposing her would have been no improvement for her, and now rude, too. I tried to explain how I had come to my conclusions and how and why what she had been doing in that regard bothered me, but she took it too damn much to heart.

...I wonder just how our relationship lasted five months.