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Breaking News from Pod'lair!

Logic

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Okay this thread is for everyone that's interested in knowing more about the actual proof of concept behind Pod'lair and what's being done about getting it across to the rest of the people. We're actually already taking measures for going in this direction and we're working on Ebooks on various Pod'Lair subject matter. So here are the details.

The Ebooks are going to be free, and given out to anyone for the purpose of giving outsiders all of the information that they would need to see the value of what we're doing. We are starting with a Nai'xyy Ebook, but right after that we're going to be releasing a Case Studies Ebook, which will be a dedicated manuscript specifically for proof of concept. In the Case Studies Ebook we'll be doing in depth dissecting different Mojo samples, we'll be doing a compare and contrast of other models (mainly beating up on them), and then even correcting the experts (From the MBTI circles and what not.)

As for peer review we're still at our beginning phases of show casing this theory, but we're literally sprinting toward getting the kind of facial recognition, or eye movement measurement technology, etc, that we need to make this theory completely empirical. Right now our empiricism stands very strong for those that can actually see it, but in order to do that, you have to

a.) Be open-minded enough to actually give trying to see it a shot.
b.) Be willing to develop the ability to see if if it is not coming to you as naturally as it does for others.
c.) and most importantly, not be a douche.

Until we have the right technology that can measure facial cues, then we're going to be at kind of an impasse in showing the layman that there is actually something there, that right there is the one thing that stands in our way in proving ourselves to everyone in such a way that leaves no room for doubt. Until that time comes, we'll mainly be marketing ourselves to the more open-minded, and naturally talented people of the world. However that is not to say we're completely dependent on technology to grant us a proof of concept that will close all doubt, because there are other things that we can do with just our human abilities that are completely unprecedented. One in particular, specifically for the advanced Mojo Readers, is that we can all look at the same person and read them the same way without even communicating to each other, the odds of that happening near a 100% of the time are highly unlikely. But that too does require us to grow a little more in order to actually get people to want to look at what we're doing, especially if we want to start pulling off feats like gathering thousands of Nai'xyy or Nyy'xai in one place to amp up that signal to point where you would have to be blind to miss it.

Right now, our peers are not properly equipped to review this theory. Without any of our proof of concept, peer review would be meaningless, and just plain misleading. It would be reviewing our theory from the perspective of a worldview where what we claim is happening, cannot happen. That kind of review is only a dismal based on what is in our peer's current reality. It's like Aubrey De Grey, many of his peers are giving him negative reviews, even though he actually has not even tried his hypothesis, so they really have no real grounds to claim that he's wrong, and they're only doing it because those that have tried to cure mortal life in the past have all failed. Although we're not entirely in that situation, because unlike us, Aubrey De Gray technically doesn't completely know if he's right yet. As a team, we know that we're not simply making unfounded hypotheses, we already know what our theory can do, we have seen it, and we use it ourselves everyday to astounding success and consistency. Example: one of our interns spent around a week training with us and it was a pretty intense Mojo Reading training boot camp for him. After he went home, he took the 'That 70's Show' Mojo Reading quiz, and got a perfect score, 100% correct. Probability shows that this kind of thing just can't happen unless there really is something there that we're seeing.

Now there are many ways someone can respond to that, like well they could be cheating or reacting to each others cues, they need a controlled experiment in a lab, blah blah blah. But what needs to be understood is that we're not running away from peer review and/or obtaining controlled empirical evidence. We're not one of those groups of people that know their theory is bullshit, and are shying away from going empirical because they know they can't. It's our goal to prove this theory to the world and we're pushing as hard as we can to have that goal met (without selling out and abandoning the deeper meaning behind the theory), however that goal needs to be rolled out in a order of events, and you actually can't expect it to roll out all at once. We're also not an academically funded research group, we're renegade theorists with an unprecedented discovery, and a message about the human condition that this discovery indicates. That's just the truth of the matter, and there's no need to hide that, or present Pod'Lair like this is an institutionalized psychological study, because that will just make people dismiss us as soon as they're hit with our revolutionary tone. What needs to be understood here is that in the end, it doesn't matter how a theory is presented, or the words that are chosen to be used. Making your theory look like it's superficially scientific, by seducing your audience using really smart sounding words and presentation is really just a tool for persuasion in itself. What matters most is what you can do with a theory, what predictions you can make with it, and how accurate those predictions can be, and Pod'Lair is a theory that has the potential for unprecedented prediction and application, and we're on an unyielding path to make that happen.
 

dark

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Just an idea so we can actually get somewhere with learning, lets avoid the sophist type post that I keep seeing, instead let us work in the Socratic form of debate so we can actually learn something. You may have a lot of ideas, but since it is all based on reading a person, there is no need to make speeches on why Pod'lair is the best.

Let's kill the whole debate on what is right or wrong and learn something for once. I get tired of reading reasons from each side and never learning anything about how they do the methods on either side.

I know there used to be a place on the website that has videos to watch so I didn't have to read so much, but I can't seem to find them, any idea where I can find them now?
 

nanook

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the channel's overwiew page is hidden, but you can find some videos with the related-sidebar. i am eager to see how they use motion to tell sensors and intuitives apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5ptz9qWpxo
 

Don't mind me

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Uhm, you do realize that the leap from an empirically reliable way to systemically organize facial cues/body language/whatever to an exhaustive theory of the functioning of the human psyche is sort of pretty big, right?
 

thoumyvision

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I'm curious about some of the metaphysical pronouncements on the site, can you elaborate on them?

For instance the following statement ascribes a metaphysical set of ideas to "Natural Law":

"Gender Equality, Age Equality, Racial Equality, and Equality for Sexual Orientation of all persuasions are part of Natural Law and to be celebrated"
-To Play Here

I agree for the most part, but to ascribe it to "Natural Law" seems to suggest that there is some sort of naturalistic standard to base the statement on. To put it succinctly: From whence comes the standard?

This second troubles me a bit more:

"
Being the highest energy form, nothing is above humans."
-To Play Here

I think you'll find quite a lot of people who disagree on this point, and not just religious persons like myself. That statement is one of an absolute knowledge that you have no way of possessing. I suppose you can caveat it by adding "that we know of."

I love the following statement, and totally agree with it. However, if you use it against the above statements you run into problems.

"Truth is not determined by what you believe it should be; it is not under your control.
Truth is not determined by what you want it to be; it doesn’t give a flying fuck about how you feel.
Truth is not determined by what the majority believes in; it is not democratic.
Truth is determined by evidence in support of it; it simply is what it is."
-Pod'Lair Superiority

I'm actually seriously considering making a video (an idea I would have laughed at 6 months ago), but I'd like to learn a bit about the philosophical underpinnings of this whole system first.

One of the things which it appears is being done with Pod'Lair is that a philosophy is guiding the science. Problems always occur when this happens; like when Christians try to determine the age of the universe from the Bible, or when atheists declare that evolution must be an unguided process because to believe otherwise would invalidate their belief. Philosophical worldviews are extremely important, but they can corrupt the scientific method in disastrous ways if they are left unchecked.
 

nanook

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i contemplated sending them a video too, but being german i don't really fit in with them, they would meet physically, have group sex and all, and i just get to camwhore. no, don't like to be the fifth wheel. guess i will have to do my own integral typology sect. now i just need to find a bunch of germans who give a fuck about anything of higher interest. i shall be busy for a while ...
 

Auburn

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It's like Aubrey De Grey, many of his peers are giving him negative reviews, even though he actually has not even tried his hypothesis, so they really have no real grounds to claim that he's wrong, and they're only doing it because those that have tried to cure mortal life in the past have all failed.
I'm actually a fan of Aubrey De Gray - and I appreciate optimism toward the unknown amidst the skepticism of the 'known'. I hope he's right but I haven't done enough research to know.

However, I just wanna point out that sometimes the known *is* enough to debunk an untested hypothesis. For instance, in Aubrey's case, I think it might be possible that some of the reviews he is receiving contain legitimate biological reasons *why* it wouldn't work. If there was a flaw in his hypothesis/premise (say for instance one of those 7 ways to dispose of waste was incorrect), then that critique is valid and a reason to believe the hypothesis would fail.

The whole point of critique/peer-review is to offer new angles that may have been overlooked by the advocating party. In other words to double-check, since if you are only looking at things from the angle of the advocate you obviously will see no flaws in your own ideas. I read this in someone's signature and I think it applies:
"The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him." - Proverbs 18:17
You can't really know whether a critique is valid or not until you actually listen to it - since the whole point of review is to catch mistakes the other might have made without knowing - and you don't know what you don't know.

Right now, our peers are not properly equipped to review this theory.
This is like saying, "You do not qualify to critique me, because you are too foolish". So who *is* qualified to critique Pod'Lair? Only those who Pod'Lair deems worthy? Well now, isn't that a convenient way to bypass criticism..

You say you want open-mindedness, but is Podlair open-minded enough to entertain the idea they may be wrong? And if not, why the double standard?

"Podlair is correct, that is absolute fact, and everyone else who doesn't think so is too close-minded." This is how I read your post, and I find it ironic that Podlair seeks open-minded individuals when it is so close-minded itself.

This is a sly tactic to take advantage of those who are more generous..
 

dark

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After watching some of the videos about how they see things in peoples faces, I am not "remembering" similarities between people. I have a primitive understanding so far of what they are doing. Which I now know why I am attracted to specific females that I have no understanding why, well at least I am getting an understanding of why.

But to be honest, I am afraid I will start judging people if I learn anything more.
 

nanook

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maybe the word open minded has a more specific meaning to the author. i feel like i get it, but i am actually not sure ... maybe i am projecting higher understanding into something that is as dumb, as you (auburn) perceive it to be.
 

Glordag

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I often wonder if Pod'Lair is extremely controversial intentionally. I don't know if I've ever seen a new theory with little to no scientific data actually be objectively criticized to the extent that Pod'Lair is on this forum and likely other places. If their goal was to gather exposure and feedback before they invest too terribly many resources into their idea, then I think they are greatly succeeding.
 

Moocow

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Holy crap, I just checked the website.
There's about 10x as much (in paragraph quantity and length) childish ranting, cursing, and general hoo-rah circlejerking as there was before.

In fact a lot of it read like INTPforum was their only engaged audience, and now they've spent the last months writing "fuck you guys" in so many words on their front page.
 

Masterlord

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Example: one of our interns spent around a week training with us and it was a pretty intense Mojo Reading training boot camp for him. After he went home, he took the 'That 70's Show' Mojo Reading quiz, and got a perfect score, 100% correct. Probability shows that this kind of thing just can't happen unless there really is something there that we're seeing.

That's a very stupid example. You embedded the cues into his mind for a week and he looked for cues such as smiles, eye shape, cheek shape which corresponded to Jung-pod functions.

Rational people will avoid this cult like the plague.

What's funny is that you're pleading for us to be open-minded...so we can lose that open-mindedness. Once one masters mojo dojo people reading, you'll be judging everyone. I asked Thomas to type a person who I suspected to be an INFJ...and he told me he was an ISTJ. He told me that Si types have nasally voices and that they're extremely uninteresting, placid people. This having been said by a guy who promotes equality between gender, sexual orientation and mojo. Bullshit.

Has everyone forgotten the old Pod'lair lexicon?

Ehnai = Ni
Teyee = Te
Teyai = Ti

Coincidence? These buffoons owe the existence of their theory to Jung, yet they deny it.

Inarticulate Nai'xyy Logic, please step aside and allow Zai'Nyy Adymus to defend his brainchild.
 

Cheeseumpuffs

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Okay this thread is for everyone that's interested in knowing more about the actual proof of concept behind Pod'lair.

Well, besides the fact that you didn't actually give any proof for why pod'lair works, I thought it was an excellent speech. There was one point in the middle where I forgot that I was actually looking for proof, which is the purpose of speeches and language in general, right?
 

Glordag

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Holy crap, I just checked the website.
There's about 10x as much (in paragraph quantity and length) childish ranting, cursing, and general hoo-rah circlejerking as there was before.

In fact a lot of it read like INTPforum was their only engaged audience, and now they've spent the last months writing "fuck you guys" in so many words on their front page.

Hahahahaha. That made me curious, so I stopped by also. Gotta say, "stop being stupid" as the premise for their homepage isn't really pulling me in :P.
 

dark

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Soo...this is a cult?

Sorry for being a douche.

So far, I think yes, but there seems to be some legitimate ideas, so I am willing to search for them.

@ Moocow, yeah I saw the same thing haha.
 

Puffy

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To be honest I see pod'lair as a hilarious sattire of typology. Before anyone should label it a cult I think they should re-think their own relationship to typology theories. Pod'lair is only the institutionalisation of what some forum members spew out into threads every day.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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To be honest I see pod'lair as a hilarious sattire of typology. Before anyone should label it a cult I think they should re-think their own relationship to typology theories. Pod'lair is only the institutionalisation of what some forum members spew out into threads every day.

Do you see Typology as having much potential at all?

Is it a total waste of time in your view?
 

nanook

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to be honest, i see realty as a hilarious satire of humanity's worst potential, at this time. if i had to pick sides, i might choose the most hilarious side, for the lolz. i am not cynical. this is idealism talking. the satirical version of idealism.
 

EyeSeeCold

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To be honest I see pod'lair as a hilarious sattire of typology. Before anyone should label it a cult I think they should re-think their own relationship to typology theories. Pod'lair is only the institutionalisation of what some forum members spew out into threads every day.

But it's an actual cult. I suppose we're working with negative and positive connotations, but hobbyists only become like religious fanatics if they're dogmatic and intentionally guarded against doubt.
 

terraxceles

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I'm not sure you guys know this, but to become a full-fledged member you need to perform a ritual on video, coupled with hand-gestures and chanting things along the lines of "I am Nai'Xyy, this is the part of my brain that corresponds to blah-dee-blah" to show your dedication towards the Cult of Podlair.
 

Moocow

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But it's an actual cult. I suppose we're working with negative and positive connotations, but hobbyists only become like religious fanatics if they're dogmatic and intentionally guarded against doubt.

And we:
-are not making claims like:
Every other model out there is lesser than us, and every other mind currently on this planet is lesser than Thomas Chenault’s, that’s a forensic fact.
-aren't a special club with initiation rituals.
-don't go to other communities and impose our beliefs.
-don't make claims of righteousness, superiority, super-powers, or enlightenment.
-don't take MBTI for a lifestyle. Although it certainly seems to be a common assumption that we all do. Maybe this misconception is coming from the fact that this happens to be a forum based on Jung/MBTI, and some of pod'lair's oh-so intuitive supporters like to make vast, sweeping, and highly exaggerated assumptions without much particular information. They're crusading against their own imaginations and archetypes... the evil stuck-up common scum versus the righteous innovators and rebels.
-don't have an apparently fanatical devotion to a leader. Another common assumption seems to be that we revere Jung... see above.
 

terraxceles

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-are not making claims like:.

I'd forgotten about that... let me put it someplace where the ridiculousness of the claim can be emphasized.
 

Fukyo

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I wrote a tl;dr sarcastic post but Moocow and terraxceles covered most of it...I just want to say that everyone who's considering submitting videos should be aware that despite the fact the involvement on the Pod'lair site requires submission of personal data, the site doesn't have any kind of privacy statement or policy.

Keep in mind that they used this sort of information for blackmail before.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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But are they right??????
 

Cheeseumpuffs

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Seriously, there still has been no mention of why pod'lair works. So it'd be cool if everyone would stop taking a dump on this thread and let one of the pod'lair-type-people explain.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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There are two main questions in assessing the quality of the theory:

- that readings are reliable; they don't differ when applied to the same person, either when in a different mindset, or at a different point in life, or whatever else

- the reads are valid; the factors they are looking for correspond to the things that they say they correspond to

Arguments that either of these are not satisfied would help if anyone believes the theory is incorrect.
 

Moocow

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More importantly, is the ' in the name a glottal stop?
 

crippli

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Some of this reminds me some dna fanatics. Like if you test out as XX you are female. But as we know, that isn't true. There is such a thing as emotions, and they don't care that much about dna. + more.

Perhaps it's like building lego. If you have a lego house it's made up of many pieces. But if you rearrange the pieces and build a car, the house is gone. Seems obvious? It isn't. A brick isn't a house. 4 functions isn't your personality, at best it can provide a rough outline, on some people, regarding potential and irrelevant aspects.

Imho etc.

I have found some of the things the pod lair people have said interesting. Especially regarding Fe and Ni, I was surprised how much they knew about these functions, and it even seemed believable.

If the theory isn't made public for easy access and screening it holds little interest for me. It must be made easily available and easy to understand(to begin with at least). Uploading video is of no interest whatsoever. It's the theory I am interested in. Not in them trying to show off on how proficient they are to utilize this. What type I may be, I really think is rather irrelevant. I presume when they feel the ideas are mature enough to be presented to the public in a compiled form, they will do so. Until then I am inclined to leave them too it. Perhaps something productive will come out of this in the end. If not, I hope they had fun. It's good for socialising, intellectual masturbation and making connections if for nothing else.
 

Puffy

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Do you see Typology as having much potential at all?

Is it a total waste of time in your view?

It probably would have helped if I said that I do not hold myself above that comment.

No. Potentially, if valid, I could see typology being able to revolutionise society - for better or worse - but, for this to happen type would have to be something empirically identifiable. As it is on forums such as this it is either claims to authority - such as Jung, and yes Thomas as well - or arbitrary speculation. In that form, yes, I don't see typology advancing very far.

I'm happy to wait until Pod'lair make some published material and then I will judge the theory based on that. Pod'lair are the only people offering what I would hope to see in a personality based theory, so they're the only ones I can wait on. That said, I'm not expecting much. The presentation of their theory is just awful and I think Thomas is too stubborn to actually make it work. Maybe if someone leads a coup something positive will happen!

I mean, remember when Adymus originally used to post here? He presented 'his' typology as science and everyone was really impressed with him. I mean look at the views on his account - 10,000 - he was getting emails all the time. Suddenly their website comes up and everyone is out. It's a cult. Shit, run! If they really just presented the simplest essentials of the theory, without all the bull crap, I really doubt we would see as much agitation as we are.
 

Chimera

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I want Adymus back as the posterchild of Pod'Lair. He did it the right way.

Puffy said:
If they really just presented the simplest essentials of the theory, without all the bull crap, I really doubt we would see as much agitation as we are.

+1.
This forum also has a history of absolutely despising anyone who appears to be trying to bequeath some sort of "higher than thou" knowledge, and that's how a lot of Pod'Lair stuff comes across.
But I definitely agree--if Pod'Lair people desisted with their newfangled terminology here (tip: people who aren't already familiar with a "special organization's" lingo won't know what the hell you're gabbing about) and presented it in a way that most intelligent people can understand, I think the reaction would be much more favorable.
 

nanook

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to be fair thomas is bringing it from subjectivity to inter-subjectivity. exactly what is needed to advance typology. claims to authority are what guys like SIM do: copying ideas, repackaging them into a paper, tricking some admin into making the paper sticky, acting like this is the new standard for the community of sheepish theory believers, who never bother to look into the territory behind the stolen copy of a copy of a copy of a map.

the fact that podlair is more than a single subject's theory IS the advance. it's an activity. a living process. i am afraid many still believe in objectivity, which is what i call subjectivity [in this context], and they don't understand how inter-subjectivity is needed for this sort of job.

and the job isn't "old" typology. it's not creating theory or scientific validation of theory. it's us humans learning to become selfaware on a deeper level, and in the context of interaction. it's producing a new brand of people. it's to old typology like The Matrix compared to DOS.

but it fails, if the individuals aren't up the this integral and idealistic vision.

and the comment about how thomas mind relates to other minds on the planet, it worries me, a bit beyond my tolerance. i have learned to always see the right thing in everyone's contribution and there is a shitload of partially "right" in podlair, but WOW, really? i mean this quote. manic/narc/borderline PD?

maybe thomas feels like he is the only one who has visions. i'd understand the trauma! coming from the obvious culture. but there are others. sort of hidden, but they exist.
 

Puffy

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I want Adymus back as the posterchild of Pod'Lair. He did it the right way.





+1.
This forum also has a history of absolutely despising anyone who appears to be trying to bequeath some sort of "higher than thou" knowledge, and that's how a lot of Pod'Lair stuff comes across.
But I definitely agree--if Pod'Lair people desisted with their newfangled terminology here (tip: people who aren't already familiar with a "special organization's" lingo won't know what the hell you're gabbing about) and presented it in a way that most intelligent people can understand, I think the reaction would be much more favorable.

I'm all for the Adymus coup, 2011!
 

Moocow

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I want Adymus back as the posterchild of Pod'Lair. He did it the right way.



+1.
This forum also has a history of absolutely despising anyone who appears to be trying to bequeath some sort of "higher than thou" knowledge, and that's how a lot of Pod'Lair stuff comes across.
But I definitely agree--if Pod'Lair people desisted with their newfangled terminology here (tip: people who aren't already familiar with a "special organization's" lingo won't know what the hell you're gabbing about) and presented it in a way that most intelligent people can understand, I think the reaction would be much more favorable.

You should read their website if you think terminology is their only problem.
 

Chimera

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You should read their website if you think terminology is their only problem.

This is going to sound like convoluted nonsense, but...I'd rather pay attention to the parts of their ideas that have merit and ignore the cult-ish aspects. I have looked over their website, albeit a while ago, and immediately lost interest in it. Most of my limited Pod'lair understanding comes from reading Adymus's posts and observing the fiasco with Sparrow/Anamalech and Thomas. I realize that one man's take on a theory (or cult) does not accurately reflect the group as a whole, but Adymus was the least bullshitty source for the more merit-holding Pod'lair theories and therefore I'll pay more attention to what he had to say about it than what's on the headache-inducing website itself.
And Puffy, we should make posters for the occasion. :3

 

Nysamis

Redshirts: the Thai political faction that feels a
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Many people are curious about how Pod'Lair goes about reading people. There are some videos on the site and on the Pod'Lair YouTube channel that mention the various types of physiological cues, but I thought perhaps you need something more detailed. (MBTI "Xyy is roughly equal to Fe"-style translations are also included.) So here is a filming about the different physiological cues and what they indicate about a given individual's mind.

Rough Translations (using the "≈" to indicate this roughness) Chart:
Vyy (**) ≈ Se
Vai (\\) ≈ Si
Zyy (#) ≈ Te
Zai (=) ≈ Ti
Xyy [:+:] ≈ Fe (this is pronounced as "ʒi".) *[ ] done to make the damn smily go away
Xai (@) ≈ Fi (this is pronounced as "ʒaɪ".)
Nyy (??) ≈ Ne
Nai (//) ≈ Ni

Part One: Introduction and Five Fields:
* Note: If all you're looking for is cues and you're pressed for time, skip this one for now. This is the "why," the nuts and bolts as it were of these cues.
How Pod'Lair Reads People: Introduction & Five Fields - YouTube
Pod'Lair reads a person's innate psychological wiring through physiological cues. These cues will show different things, including whether a person is:
* Directive (structured) or Adaptive (freeform)
* Objective (outer world focus) or Subjective (inner world focus)
* Perception Lead (Source Power focuses on taking in information) or Discernment Lead (Source Power focuses on making decisions)
* Literal (detail-oriented) or Interpretive (pattern-oriented)
* Logic-Based (systemic, impersonal concerns) or Values-Based (humanistic, personal concerns)

Part Two: Eyes
Pod'Lair Reading Tutorial: Eyes - YouTube
A person's eyes indicate their two conscious perception powers. One of them will be higher ranked and will therefore dominate the eyes. They can also indicate whether:
* A person is Literal or Interpretive
* A person is Objective (Unhooded Eyes) or Subjective (Hooded Eyes)
* A person is Directive (Hunter Eyes) or Adaptive (Gatherer Eyes)

Eye movements to the right and left indicate which Subjective Powers are conscious.
* Using Zai will correspondingly drop the emotion from the user's face. Xai will cause a person to gain emotiveness.
* Vai causes a person to look concerned, because they are looking for known and definable information. Nai is more dreamy, because Nai users are looking for unknown information.

Part Three: Mouth, Voice, and Cheeks
Pod'Lair Reading Tutorial: Mouth and Cheeks - YouTube
A person's mouth indicates their Values-Based power. This can be the structured power of Xyy, which is designed to move human dynamics or Xai, which internally resonates. This gives Xyy an awareness, which is visible in the Xyy Aware Mouth. Xai is not persuasive, so Xai users have less micromovements in their mouth and have Unaware Mouth. These cues show up in the voice too - Xyy sounds persuasive and Xai sounds earnest.

The midline of the mouth and voice indicate whether a person is Logic or Values based. If emotive expression easily and readily goes above it (i.e. there is a comfortability with emoting), that person is Values-Based.

Cheeks indicate one's Logic-Based Power. The Zyy Anvil Cheeks are always paired with Xai Unaware Mouth, and Zai Stoneface Cheeks are always paired with Xyy Aware Mouth.

The start of the Lead Discernment vs. Lead Perception analysis commences late in this video.

Part Four: Lead Perception/Discernment and Animation
Pod'Lair Reading Tutorial: Lead Perception/Discernment and Animation - YouTube
There is also a Brimline of the face and voice. If a person's emotive expression passes that line and goes into the eyes (and high into the voice), they are a Lead Values-Based Discerner.

Likewise, the neutralization for Lead Logic-Based Discerners like the Zai'nyy overtake the Brimline of the face and the voice. For instance, you can see Stoneface go all the way up into Adymus' eyes.

This is different for Lead Perceivers. Lead Perceivers who are Values-Based will have expression that goes over the Midline. But this expression stops short before the Brimline, so their expressions will not overtake the eyes. Likewise, the neutralization of Lead Perceivers who are Logic-Based will not overtake their eyes. This is because these eight Mojos prefer taking in information with their eyes.

There are many Animation cues, such as:
Head Tilts
Yang (Directive) and Yin (Adaptive) gesturing
Boundary Setting (Directive) and Approachability (Adaptive)
Amount of overall movement indicates Objective vs. Subjective
Jutting

~~~~~~~~

If you guys are interested, the next thing I will post are videos containing footage of one celebrity per Mojo that is close to my Nyy'xai ??(@) (≈ ENFP) configuration. These Mojos are:
Same Source Nyy'zai ??(=) ≈ ENTP
Inverse Mojo Xai'nyy @(??) ≈ INFP
Adaptive/Directive Shift Xyy'nai :+:(//) ≈ ENFJ
Same Role Superpolar Vyy'xai **(@) ≈ ESFP
These Mojos give off similar cues as a Nyy'xai, but are not the same. I will show you some ways we can read their cues to show that they do not have the same Mojo as myself.
 

Artsu Tharaz

The Lamb
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Stop Being Stupid
Be A Super Hero Instead

- my new motto

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+ thanks Nysamis
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
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Keep it up and the energy will be enough to summon Him.

I mean, remember when Adymus originally used to post here? He presented 'his' typology as science and everyone was really impressed with him. I mean look at the views on his account - 10,000 - he was getting emails all the time. Suddenly their website comes up and everyone is out. It's a cult. Shit, run! If they really just presented the simplest essentials of the theory, without all the bull crap, I really doubt we would see as much agitation as we are.

Adymus being an impressive person has nothing to do with the merit of Pod'lair. In fact, the way you wish it to be, he's as much a contributing factor to the BS of Pod'lair as anything else.


My favorite quote:
Besides, pointing out the weak logic of a conceptual model is what being an INTP is all about. You kind of have to expect the possibility of being torn apart when you post things here.
 

kibou

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(Pod'Lair practioner here): It's true, this debate hasn't been able to properly take place because Pod'Lair doesn't like to prematurely disclose information because it interferes with the creation process. As an artist I can relate - revealing publically your art prematurely can result in tainting the work flow. Anyway, we are entering the stages where we are generating more material to be released publically, so there's a fair baseline to establish for a debate. There's also more diversity among the practioners than our "party line" might suggest and that might amp up the interestingness in the discussion =)
 

Puffy

"Wtf even was that"
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Adymus being an impressive person has nothing to do with the merit of Pod'lair. In fact, the way you wish it to be, he's as much a contributing factor to the BS of Pod'lair as anything else.

You missed my point there. It wasn't to 'worship' Adymus, but to say that presentation has a great effect on how well an idea is received. Frankly, there was a lot more positive interest in pod'lair on this forum before the website was introduced.
 

kibou

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This is often true in art in science as well: artistic, intuitive processes are used to garner a useful theory or artistic product, but then there's a more technical, concrete, scientific, legitimate explanation made afterward to prove that the theory makes sense, or that the art is good. Pod'Lair's method of creating the theory is highly artistic, which is reflected in the website, but the products it produces can be displayed concretely and explained logically as well. When we're talking about psychology, of understanding human beings, we are not so concrete or logical that we can only be understood and explained through logical, scientific means.

Just like understanding art, understanding humans requires also taking an artistic approach as well. Whether the approach works or not, can be seen by the sheer abilities that people understand themselves in this way, and have developed the ability of mojo reading, can do. We believe we need to respect the method in which the result is achieved (which includes an artistic component), but ultimately the demonstration shows whether this approach works. If we are able to read things about people we've never met to an extent that is impossible by any other means, that proves that there is something there, even if there's disagreements on what exactly that is.

For example, with fighting, the most effective fighters might have a more artistic process with how they approach fighting; ki, energy focus, that kind of thing. Whether this actually works or helps can be demonstrated in a fighting match. To learn such a fighting style effectively, you would need to approach it the artistic way it does, but even if you disagree with its premises (does ki exist?), you can still appreciate what it proves it can do (ie. allow someone to fight exceptionally effectively).
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
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You missed my point there. It wasn't to 'worship' Adymus, but to say that presentation has a great effect on how well an idea is received. Frankly, there was a lot more positive interest in pod'lair on this forum before the website was introduced.
So the website's presentation is the problem. Do you think Adymus should return as the (un?)official bridge between Pod'lair and potential initiates? If so, do you see Adymus' bias of Pod'lair as specious to the cause of typology; or do you see that as unimportant? Or what?
 

Auburn

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Anyway, we are entering the stages where we are generating more material to be released publically, so there's a fair baseline to establish for a debate.
Yay debate time! ^^
I have a very basic one to start with:

position A:
Assuming the artistic approach is the aim, Pod'lair's presentation is generally unappealing even from an artistic perspective.
***

elaboration:

Even putting logic aside, the art itself (such as the terms: Dar'yu, Fu'masta, Spirit Forms, Super Hero, Mojo Dojo) comes across as cliche/corny and juvenile. Of course this is my personal opinion (since we're talking about art, it's rather hard for it not to be) but I find that this is also the general consensus from all places online I've seen it presented.

If Podlair is choosing to be artistic about their approach, that's fine, but I think they're not doing a good job of it. The art is just.... not good? >.> (feel free to criticize my own art too ;p I'm not satisfied with my own ability either.)

But for example - a Movie that is an exceptional work of art (i.e. 10/10 rating) is a movie with good choreography, good lines/scripts, good acting, good lighting, good humor, good angles, real emotional tones ..all those and more. All those elements are designed to appeal to the audience and although an audience's taste differs greatly due to individuality, good film-makers are those who are able to intuitively understand the population's overall preference and put on a performance that stuns the majority of people. That is when art becomes influential.

I believe that if the goal is to keep an artistic approach to Podlair then it should at least be done successfully - and the reception thus far to it is evidence that it's not being done successfully..

The consequential frustration on the homepage/etc is (I believe) largely due to this poor presentation as well as the attitude of superiority which is not needed (even if one *is* right) to present a position and in fact does more to repulse the audience (nobody likes someone arrogant) than attract them, thus feeding the advocator's frustration. It is part of the presentation, which is the issue.

Podlair's is either unaware of the places it is portrayed as distasteful or understands yet for some reasons chooses to keep them. I've presented this same argument at least twice before with no satisfactory answer, which leaves me to believe the general attitude toward the asthete is that:
"Thomas likes them, the interns like them, and since they're the ones primarily building the theory its only fair that they keep them - and those who don't will get used to them in time. They're not that bad, after all.

We pride in being non-conventional and since, as Interpretives, we wish not to conform but to revolutionize, we don't believe suppressing that quirkiness is needed. Podlair is about being yourself and to the fullest without shame - that includes us."
I can agree with the position/attitude of being yourself and proud of who you are. However, because what Podlair is attempting is to reach outside of itself, that requires a consideration of those outside of themselves.

I'm all for individuality but you can't push that individuality onto others. If Podlair likes those terms then that's totally kool, but because it wants to globalize itself - its going to have to stop looking at just itself and look at others if it is going to be successful.

I can make artwork that I like.. and only I. I can smile at it every time I see it but if I want others to smile at it too, I have to make it appeal to their taste. If Podlair wants to be accepted, artistically, by anyone outside of itself it's going to have adapt itself to them.

Words of a mediocre artist INTP/Zai'nyy.. ;p
 

Puffy

"Wtf even was that"
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So the website's presentation is the problem. Do you think Adymus should return as the (un?)official bridge between Pod'lair and potential initiates? If so, do you see Adymus' bias of Pod'lair as specious to the cause of typology; or do you see that as unimportant? Or what?

I'll take to PM as my answer isn't really relevant to pod'lair, so as to not derail what will likely become a tangled thread anyway.
 

BigApplePi

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Evaluating Pod'lair!

Here is a quick reaction to this thread and you'll have to excuse me if I miss many points.

1. There is a difference between a poor or uninviting presentation of a theory and the merit of the theory itself. So I withhold the "cult" evaluation until more proof is offered.

2. Understanding 16 personality types is very difficult (for me anyway) and though I've been exposed to them with the MBTI, I fail to intuit types with any facility. So I'm going to say that will be true regardless of what model is applied: MBTI or Pod'lair.

3. I like this as promising though I only played Part One. The Part Two playback started breaking up for me.

4. I'd like to know what one wants to do with a personality theory, any personality theory? Accurately type oneself or others or what? Whatever theory you use, you still have to learn it. Learning it requires experiencing the types, not just reading theory. That is why I find it difficult for me.

5. Art versus science? No problem. Science corresponds to precision; art to impression. Both must apply here.

6. Can Pod'lair set up a double blind test for typing people? What have they done so far? We can bring in a group of strangers and have

(a) Pod'lair people type them. Use any favorite method.
(b) MBTI people type them. Use any favorite method.

See what you get.
 

dark

Bring this savage back home.
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People also believe in the following:

Astrology
God
Dowsing
Fortune Tellers
Crystal Balls
Seven Years Bad Luck to Walk Under a Ladder
Same thing as above with breaking a mirror
They hold onto a rabbit's foot
They wear lucky clothing in hopes it will help
They go to religious organizations
Mind reading
David Blaine
Elvis
Abductions from aliens
That I am a nice person
That science and rationality/logic is the root of evil
The virgin Mary
Reincarnation
The fortunes on fortune cookies
Magick
Psychic energy
Capitalism
Other lives
That when you ear burns it means someone is talking about you
Black cats crossing a road is bad
Itching inside of a palm means various things from a hand shake to getting money
Satin is making me write this:evil:
Bermuda Triangle
Ghosts
Monster under the bed
Monster in the closet
Santa Clause
Heaven
Easter Bunny
Jesus (besides the historical character)
Allah wills all kinds of shit
All the bad things in the world happened because of the Jews (I think this is the most illogical yet :confused:)
If you die killing an infidel Allah will grant you automatic permission to paradise
In the authority of Aristotle until Copernicus' time.
Hell
That lighter objects fell differently than heavier objects until Galileo showed us
That the moon landing was faked
That no one else can think but themselves
Too many conspiracies about J.F.K.
That Hitler was actually going to help Germany
That Churchill was a loon and didn't know what he was talking about
That Socrates was too dangerous to keep alive
That you own your copy of your windows operating system (by the way you are only borrowing it, read the label :D)
That Obama would make some awesome change (then get angry at him when you realize he is only human and can't pull off superhero feats)
Angels
Demons
Soul
Spirituality

The list goes on and on, if I took more time I could probably type for days about the silly things humans believe in.
:elephant:
 

BigApplePi

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People also believe in the following:

Astrology - great for conversation with strangers
God - would have to be invented if He didn't exist.
Dowsing - great for finding water
Fortune Tellers - great for future thinking
Seven Years Bad Luck to Walk Under a Ladder - six and a half, not seven
They hold onto a rabbit's foot - good for faith and feels furry
Mind reading - good to think about science
Elvis - he exists on Utube
Abductions from aliens - you don't like aliens?
That I am a nice person - aren't you?
The virgin Mary - if I believe in Superman, you can believe in Her.

The list goes on and on, if I took more time I could probably reply for days about anything you put up.
:elephant:
 

Masterlord

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Dark, it would be interesting to know what pod'lair typed you as.

You believe yourself to be ENTP, what did they say?
 

Deleted member 1424

Guest
If Podlair is choosing to be artistic about their approach, that's fine, but I think they're not doing a good job of it. The art is just.... not good? >.>

I shouldn't be as amused by that statement as I am....
:D
 
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