Breaking News from Pod'lair!

[dark]

I was typed as both INFP and INFJ. But I think I know the reason for them seeing Ni after I learned about how they read eyes. I was driving in the video, and it was snow outside so I was squinting, I am also blind somewhat, so my right eye is almost always squinting. I rewatched my video and there is no way to see my eyes, made me wonder how the hell I was driving, anyways I am going to post another video soon, I assume I will get Ne Ti in some order. I compared my own self in the mirror and it seems F doesn't go up far in my face, which makes me think it is 3rd since it is farther than it would be if it was 4th and lower than if it was 2nd and definitely 1st, I tried to mimic what F in the 1st would look like and it just hurt my face haha.

So news for people, I think I was wrong, I don't think we can fake having things in other ranks because it hurts trying to make myself look like a dominate F user haha. I am not giving up on it, I am sure if I hurt myself enough I could do it haha.

 

[kibou]

@BigApplePi

We have very high confidence standing up to double-blind tests (ie the concrete objectivity of our system's observations), it is just a matter of resources. Mainly right now, we need enough people who are trained at a high enough level of accuracy to do the tests with, but with the limited # of people we are producing a lot of information (reads, journalism, etc) which are up and coming =) It's not out yet but it will be soon, and at that point we can really show if there is something Pod'Lair can shed light on that no other system can. We're very excited to show more and more of that!

 

[kibou]

@dark I'm excited and looking forward to seeing your video! BTW, with the expression, development of powers and how much you're using them at the time also affects greatly how it looks - actually, the cool thing is, it's cues in of itself - in other words, we can physiologically read development as well, because it alters how the person looks. Basically there are many people who "facehold" a certain way 24/7 (kind of like having your shoulders tense and higher up 24/7 out of habit), which requires the use of correlating powers 24/7 (for example, clamping down on your values-based power with a logic-based power, even though you are a values-based mojo). Although this taxes the person's energy a lot, there are a lot of people who do this 24/7 and these people are harder reads. We have had some values-based mojos that said in their video they must be logic-based, because look at their smile *smiles*, and you can still tell from the way the muscles tense and so on that they're values-based, because it looks like they're clamping down. The person may be so used to seeing their face this way they might not be aware of it, but it becomes obvious if that person goes towards a different development in the future or in other parts of life, how their face is capable of animating in a different way and that it's been clamping down. You can pluck a violin like a guitar, but it's still a violin being plucked like a guitar, not a guitar, and high level readers can tell the difference, it's pretty cool XD

also @auburn your post is really articulate and great, I don't have a response to it ATM but I wanted to say thank you for your post, it brings up a point that I don't think was articulated on these forums yet.

 

[Auburn]

Thanks Kibou.

Spoiler

And just for record, here's where I posted before:
http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?p=222052#post222052
Adymus and Nyxia are just a couple posts above and Nysamis just a couple posts below. I'm pretty sure they saw it, but it sorta faded into background noise. Story of my life...

@ Nysamis - Thanks for posting those videos.

@ Adaire - I made you smile! \o/ Victory..

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

So, seeing that there have been several readings which have been later changed, how do we know that the readings we have now are indeed accurate? For example, if dark was apparently able to be read first as INFP then as INFJ by essentially pretending to be that way, how do we know that we aren't picking up false cues from celebrities, who have moulded into a particular persona for their public image? How reliable is it?

 

[Logic]

However, I just wanna point out that sometimes the known *is* enough to debunk an untested hypothesis. For instance, in Aubrey's case, I think it might be possible that some of the reviews he is receiving contain legitimate biological reasons *why* it wouldn't work. If there was a flaw in his hypothesis/premise (say for instance one of those 7 ways to dispose of waste was incorrect), then that critique is valid and a reason to believe the hypothesis would fail.

Actually, no. The known (and when I say "known" I am always going to be referring to what is assumed to be true), is never enough to debunk anything, only a test or proof (ie: Natural Law) can debunk something. The known is enough to make predictions, or make speculations, so you can use the known to make speculations as to whether a hypothesis will or will not work, but a speculation is not proof, it will always be just a guess, ultimately it is Natural Law that is the final deal breaker.

The whole point of critique/peer-review is to offer new angles that may have been overlooked by the advocating party. In other words to double-check, since if you are only looking at things from the angle of the advocate you obviously will see no flaws in your own ideas. I read this in someone's signature and I think it applies:

"The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him." - Proverbs 18:17
​

You can't really know whether a critique is valid or not until you actually listen to it - since the whole point of review is to catch mistakes the other might have made without knowing - and you don't know what you don't know.

You appear to have misinterpreted me. You are reading this as "We will not listen to your criticism," which is not true at all. You are welcome to throw anything you would like at us, everything you can think of that you perceive as a weakness or pitfall in the theory, but you will find that we are often going to come back with informing you that what you are trying to check us on is actually not relevant to what we are actually doing, or what we are actually claiming. If you don't know how we are actually reading people, or how any of the theory behind what makes that possible actually works, then you are just shooting in the dark, you are assuming we are doing things that are actually not, and you are assuming things to be true that actually aren't, and then you are making your critique based on things that you believe are happening, that are actually not.

So focusing on the Five Gears of Mojo Reading, we claim that there is this connection in these human physiological manifestations that are connected to a person's cognitive configuration, these manifestations present themselves in a language of patterns, and human beings can learn to read this language. This is something we demonstrate that in very concrete ways, If you wanted to disprove that, then there is nothing stopping you from trying to contest our claims in the same concrete ways.

We also claim that Physical Manifestations of powers will always appear in patterns that reflect that person's Cognitive configuration, ie: Xyy, Aware Mouth always comes with Zai Stoneface, or Xai poignancy always comes with Zyy Bracing, etc, etc. Anyone is welcome to try and contest that if they can demonstrate that a person has manifestations of two or more powers that cannot possible be configured together in a Conscious four hierarchy. Just don't be surprised when we refute your discrepancy.

This is like saying, "You do not qualify to critique me, because you are too foolish". So who *is* qualified to critique Pod'Lair? Only those who Pod'Lair deems worthy? Well now, isn't that a convenient way to bypass criticism..

You say you want open-mindedness, but is Podlair open-minded enough to entertain the idea they may be wrong? And if not, why the double standard?

"Podlair is correct, that is absolute fact, and everyone else who doesn't think so is too close-minded." This is how I read your post, and I find it ironic that Podlair seeks open-minded individuals when it is so close-minded itself.

This is a sly tactic to take advantage of those who are more generous..

No, it is actually like saying "You are not equipped to critique me, because you refuse to look at that only piece of evidence that matters." If you were trying to prove to someone that the earth revolves around the sun, and you could demonstrate this simply by having that person look through a telescope and observe that phenomenon for themselves... How seriously would you take their disagreement if they refused to even look through the telescope, and just stuck to their position? How valid would their opinion be if they refused to examine the one piece of evidence that could royally change the game? How seriously do you take a creationist when they dismiss fossils in favor of sticking to their beliefs?

It is not that one disagrees that makes them closed-minded, it is the fact they refuse to look at newly emerging information and observations, and instead they try and dismiss those by simply by sticking to their old Jungian assumptions, which actually have no evidence to back itself up in the first place, and should most certainly not be treated as the factual standard (which that seems to be the case in there parts.)

So you can by all means try and contest that we are even seeing a phenomenon at all, examine our case studies in our public forum as dispute as you see fit, but don't be surprised when we roll our eyes at something like "You're wrong because you said I am a Nai'xyy but I already know that I am an INTP." or "You're wrong because that can't work" or "Your wrong because Jung said such and such."

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Have there been cue familys identified that, for example, only show up in IFs and ETs, or only in EFs or ITs? (or only INs and ESs or ISs and ENs) - for example, in IFs and ETs there might be the impression that values based discernment is being done on the spot, whereas in EFs and ITs the values based discernments are more about retrieval of such judgments.

What about, for example, cues that show up in all of [IFPs, ITJs, ETPs and EFJs] but not [ISPs, IFJs, EFPs and ETJs]? (if there are patterns here, it probably won't be in physical cues, but in the general flow of information - for example, being energised by expressions of emotion vs. being energised by logical reasoning)

 

[Logic]

So, seeing that there have been several readings which have been later changed, how do we know that the readings we have now are indeed accurate? For example, if dark was apparently able to be read first as INFP then as INFJ by essentially pretending to be that way, how do we know that we aren't picking up false cues from celebrities, who have moulded into a particular persona for their public image? How reliable is it?

Dark received a photo read as a Xai'nyy by the Pod'Lair intern reading team before he sent in a video and was read as a Nai'xyy. Reading a person from a photograph is not impossible, but it is well known to suffer a significant drop in accuracy, and thus photo reads are considered very low level reads, partial reads to be exact. No less then ten minutes of video footage is necessary to soft read a person, and more footage is necessary to get firmer reads. What Dark is talking about actually has very little to do with how he was read, he is only taking into account one first gear cue, a very non-conclusive cue at that, and there are still 4 more gears worth of signals that he is not taking into account.

Have there been cue familys identified that, for example, only show up in IFs and ETs, or only in EFs or ITs? (or only INs and ESs or ISs and ENs) - for example, in IFs and ETs there might be the impression that values based discernment is being done on the spot, whereas in EFs and ITs the values based discernments are more about retrieval of such judgments.

What about, for example, cues that show up in all of [IFPs, ITJs, ETPs and EFJs] but not [ISPs, IFJs, EFPs and ETJs]? (if there are patterns here, it probably won't be in physical cues, but in the general flow of information - for example, being energised by expressions of emotion vs. being energised by logical reasoning)

The short answer is yes, you are basically asking about Third Gear cues which does go into signals that can be found in certain Social Alchemy groupings. Although Third Gear is where the Five Gears of Mojo Reading gets into tacit signals, so I would not be able to explain it using the component or Concrete methods that are used in Gears 1 and 2, it is a signal that would have to be learned by actually Immersing yourself in these Mojo Configuration signals and tacitly acquire their scent into your Mojo Reading pallet.

What you should understand though is that you are listing very different Configurations:
For example in one grouping you had: Xai Alpha, Nai'zyy and Vai'zyy, Nyy'zai and Vyy'zai, and Xyy Alpha. So you are going to have some over lapping cues at different gears, shown here:

Xai Alpha
1st Gear cues in common: Xai Source, Zyy Polar)
2nd Gear cues in common: Adaptive, Subjective, Discernment Lead, and Values-Based)
3nd Gear cues in common: Xai Alpha

Nai'zyy and Vai'zyy
1st Gear cues in common: Zyy Tandem, Xai Offside)
2nd Gear cues in common: Directive, Subjective, Perception Lead, and Logic-Based)
3nd Gear cues in common: Logic-Based Hunter signal (Hunter = leads with Worldview Map)

Nyy'zai and Vyy'zai
1st Gear cues in common: Zai Tandem, Xyy Offside)
2nd Gear cues in common: Adaptive, Objective, Perception Lead, and Logic-Based)
3nd Gear cues in common: Logic-based Gatherer signal (Gather = leads with Stimulus Register)

Xyy Alpha
1st Gear cues in common: Xyy Source, Zai Polar)
2nd Gear cues in common: Directive, Objective, Discernment Lead, and Values-Based)
3nd Gear cues in common: Xyy Alpha

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Dark received a photo read as a Xai'nyy

Ah, no worries then. However, I know there have been a few misreads of celebrities. What is the source of this? Were the readings done by users with less than 100% reading ability, or are occassional misreads to be expected even with 100%? (e.g. someone may understand perfectly how to do arithmetic, but still make some miscalculations due to human error - when someone points this out to them they'll immediately see the mistake)

The short answer is yes, you are basically asking about Third Gear cues which does go into signals that can be found in certain Social Alchemy groupings. Although Third Gear is where the Five Gears of Mojo Reading gets into tacit signals, so I would not be able to explain it using the component or Concrete methods that are used in Gears 1 and 2, it is a signal that would have to be learned by actually Immersing yourself in these Mojo Configuration signals and tacitly acquire their scent into your Mojo Reading pallet.

What you should understand though is that you are listing very different Configurations:
For example in one grouping you had: Xai Alpha, Nai'zyy and Vai'zyy, Nyy'zai and Vyy'zai, and Xyy Alpha. So you are going to have some over lapping cues at different gears, shown here:

Xai Alpha
1st Gear cues in common: Xai Source, Zyy Polar)
2nd Gear cues in common: Adaptive, Subjective, Discernment Lead, and Values-Based)
3nd Gear cues in common: Xai Alpha

Nai'zyy and Vai'zyy
1st Gear cues in common: Zyy Tandem, Xai Offside)
2nd Gear cues in common: Directive, Subjective, Perception Lead, and Logic-Based)
3nd Gear cues in common: Logic-Based Hunter signal (Hunter = leads with Worldview Map)

Nyy'zai and Vyy'zai
1st Gear cues in common: Zai Tandem, Xyy Offside)
2nd Gear cues in common: Adaptive, Objective, Perception Lead, and Logic-Based)
3nd Gear cues in common: Logic-based Gatherer signal (Gather = leads with Stimulus Register)

Xyy Alpha
1st Gear cues in common: Xyy Source, Zai Polar)
2nd Gear cues in common: Directive, Objective, Discernment Lead, and Values-Based)
3nd Gear cues in common: Xyy Alpha

No I meant those groups -taken as a whole-.

For example, we have families of cues that divide NJs and SPs from SJs and NPs (using MBTI notation for convenience). Are there cues that divide INs and ESs from ISs and ENs?

And in the example you wrote out, two of those were both F-dom, and the other two were T-aux. Can we identify factors which suggest that someone is [either F-dom or T-aux] just as we can determine [either Nai or Vyy main perception] etc.?

I mean, of course you could -infer- this from the intersection of other families, and we can see these taken singly, but does it go beyond this?

So our cues are:
1: the 8 functions as per the usual model, [together with position?]
2: P vs J, I vs E, IJ/EP vs IP/EJ, F/T, N/S
3: dominant Pi/Pe/Ji/Je + whether this is N/S, F/T

Have I missed any? Is position included in 1, or is it just the pairings?

 

[crippli]

Reading a person from a photograph is not impossible, but it is well known to suffer a significant drop in accuracy, and thus photo reads are considered very low level reads, partial reads to be exact. No less then ten minutes of video footage is necessary to soft read a person, and more footage is necessary to get firmer reads.

I read on here that one could submit photos. And I did, since I like to take pictures. I was told they didn't do pictures, I had to provide video. Part of the fun is also to see if the typing changes based on the material that is provided. A still picture can also say a whole lot more then video. Whereas the great moments may just pass by with video. Unnoticed.

I was disapointed they couldn't/wouldn't read my picture.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I read on here that one could submit photos. And I did, since I like to take pictures. I was told they didn't do pictures, I had to provide video. Part of the fun is also to see if the typing changes based on the material that is provided. A still picture can also say a whole lot more then video. Whereas the great moments may just pass by with video. Unnoticed.

I was disapointed they couldn't/wouldn't read my picture.

The "great moments" aren't going to just pass by in the video, because they are especially looking for just those moments, which will give valuable information as to your type.

The thing about photos, is that they -might- contain relevant information, or there might be very little information, or misleading information that suggests one cue but if seen dynamically would be seen to be something else.

The photos were "soft reads" in that they would give you an idea but weren't reliable. If they've stopped doing these soft reads it might simply be to avoid the negative effects of the inevitable mistypings that would result from such a method. While they're demonstrating their reliability, they'll probably steer clear of unreliable methods, except unofficially.

 

[crippli]

The "great moments" aren't going to just pass by in the video, because they are especially looking for just those moments, which will give valuable information as to your type.

The thing about photos, is that they -might- contain relevant information, or there might be very little information, or misleading information that suggests one cue but if seen dynamically would be seen to be something else.

The photos were "soft reads" in that they would give you an idea but weren't reliable. If they've stopped doing these soft reads it might simply be to avoid the negative effects of the inevitable mistypings that would result from such a method. While they're demonstrating their reliability, they'll probably steer clear of unreliable methods, except unofficially.

You could have a different type when you are static. Like if there is someone you want to sleep with, it could be valuable to know if they will be trashing about, are warm, or like me, almost like dead. It's my impression that many change type, depending if they are in the bedroom or outside. A still picture imo may provide more cues to your sexual type, if they will be comfy to curl up with.

A picture read is a picture read. It is what it is. A dynamic read is a dynamic read. I'm not sure. But I suspect a picture can provide more information about the abstract aspects of ones personality. It's almost impossible to extract the same amount of information from a picture from video footage as it is from a photography.

You know, like this(not my photo). You just cant capture the dynamics of this with a webcam. So even something static can reveal dynamic, much more. With video, everything would be dark, and you would only notice a bright blink.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6205/6078636288_ba168cdb15_b.jpg

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Ok, but how does that relate to Typing?

 

[crippli]

I suspect they will miss out on the information from the photography that I don't think I can capture with video, that is of more importance to give an accurate read. I explained why.

But I hear what you say. They are not that interested in the dynamic of the lightning. More like the city lights, that will still be visible with video.

Or maybe I'm over evaluating the hidden aspects, that there is no lightning. And that video is sufficient. I guess we will see when it's put more through the tests.

 

[alrai]

Social image? erm okay. Make sense. why would they especially look for thise moments? the other things about photos is I've taken plenty before, and their powerless unless their taken correctly, my point being, you have to let the camera breath, dont try lead it or follow its lead, or patronize it, then you might understand how the 'real pictures' are inspired. I love photography.

 

[dark]

@kibou, yeah I thought the new expression chart was really cool. Should make it much easier to make an accurate video without external things messing with me, but I assume it would be best to not wear my glasses when I try to do expressions . I'll have to exaggerate expressions since I am not entirely sure how I do them normally, but that should be fine since the TiNe guy in the video said it would be fine to do so.

I also find it very interesting that they have ways of telling functions via the fluctuation of the voice, this is something I would actually like to learn to do haha.

Actually to be honest, when I was typed as INFP I was in a dim room so nothing was messing with me, so I may be that type, but I am not entirely sure yet, I still think I run with Ti in auxiliary and I am definitely sure that I have Ne instead of Ni, especially after reading Adymus' thing on all the functions. So I think the mess up with the Ni typing was because of my two squinting videos, but I guess that was my mistake, hard to tell what kind of eyes I have when I am unconsciously squinting to protect my eyes in the bright lights.

Could someone explain the aware and unaware mouths I saw in the videos? That idea seems odd to me and I couldn't find the difference.

 

[dark]

Oops forgot to ask, Logic, I think I see something from what you wrote that could be correlating to genealogy in some form. Though my only experience with this is one biology class so if I am wrong, say so. It seems that it could be possible that functions are passed down from family member to family member. Or something better, if we inherit the same functions our parents have, we also inherit how they look on them. So if I have family members with Si and that is on their top two functions, I will inherit how it shapes their face if I too have it. And since there are cues that can show Si, but it is obvious that each person wears it in their own way, it gives so much flavor to each function. Take for example the letter "A" I can change the font and make it look many different styles, but it is still an A. So pretty much, someone is born with parents that wear A in font Times New Roman, so instead of wearing it in Comic Sans, they wear it in Times New Roman.

 

[kibou]

@Artsu Tharaaz

Yes, actually, pretty much all cues are mojo specific, and the way they manifest is also specific to other things, like development, effectiveness of use and toxicity. This is observable through the eyes and ears, which is why we can even read it in still photos. However, this is harder to do in photos, so without a really high level practioner the accuracy is not as reliable. But I can tell you experientially we can read from photos, I know because I can do it too. We can read based on other limited amounts of information, such as not being able to see the eyes, and even just hearing the voice, but it gets hader and harder to observe everything. For example, the Objective Perception powers, Vyy and Nyy, are easiest to observe in real-time because they work in real-time (a cool thing about Pod'Lair is to what extent the nuanced use of a power correlates exactly with physiological manifestation). But yes, there are cues specific to mojo, and even cues specific to development - every way you can categorize mojo, there are cues specific to that grouping.

So with Dark's video, the footage wasn't very clear (bad lighting, looking away from camera, etc), not nearly as clear as seeing him in real life and many cues were covered up (lack of detail in videos also makes cues harder to read because we observe very subtle muscle tensions in the face). For example: in such a video, you might have a harder time telling whether someone is happy or sad, because you can't clearly see the muscular tensions in the face and mouth that shows happy or sad, but you might still be able to get the overall sense that they're happy or sad. However, you can't say in detail what kind of happy it is - poignant, recovering from something hard, content, placid, etc; to read a facial expression in this much detail you need more video footage. A clear video clearly showing the face would make the read's accuracy go up from 80% to 100%, so we're looking forward to a clear video submission Dark =)

So the short answer is, every cue looks different depending on the mojo using it, and every cue also looks different depending on their development. The much more general things we say about "face neutralizing to the right" covers the entire scope of that cue (Zai use by all human beings who have that power consciously), but there are variations within that scope that are specific to mojo, development, use, and toxicity. This is why we can tell mojos apart that have the same conscious powers, for example Xyy'nai (consciously: Xyy-Nai-Vyy-Zai) from Nai'xyy (Nai-Xyy-Zai-Vyy), even if they're using the same powers to the same extent (for example, a Xyy'nai that uses a lot of Nai VS a Nai'xyy that uses a lot of Xyy). Even development of that power VS how much it's being used in that particular moment look different from each other. This is going on 24/7 which is why we can read it even in a picture, but it's a lot harder.

Interestingly, there are people who purposely imitae other people's cues, for example Nai'xyy that imitate Nyy'xai cues, because they've been around so many Nyy'xai all their life that they mirror the body language. But even then, it looks different - it's knowledge that can't easily be transferred through words, it has to be achieved through training, but Nai'xyy emulating Nyy'xai cues literally look more feral, because they look like a Nai'xyy modulating into their Zai-Vyy powers, NOT a Nyy'xai on their momentum Nyy-Xai side. When they disengage to the right, they're showing the Xai cue, not the Zai cue. Their gesturing is a Yang user modulating into Yin gesturing, NOT a Yin user momentuming on Yin gesturing. Even more specifically, it looks like a Nai'xyy user modulating onto their Adaptive side, not a Nyy'xai user momentuming on their Adaptive side. These have to be experientially learned through practice, but I can tell you from my own countless experience that they're real, they're there, and if you have an eye for people reading, it doesn't take that long to be able to see it. But like learning to use your body in martial arts, you have to practice it to know in the most concrete way possible, by being able to see it yourself.

@crippli

I can tell you as a mojo reader that between clear video and clear photo, clear video wins. After all, clear video is a compilation of thousands of clear photos, microseconds after another, WITH audio (we can read from voice as well). Also, the cues can never be completely hidden, only muted, but then we get the cue that you are muting your cues. If you're talking in complete gibberish, we can still read your configuration as long as we can see your face clearly. I know this myself because I often like to read mojos of people who are speaking in languages I don't like to understand for fun. =)

 

[kibou]

@dark

Seeing Pod'Lair before learning about Pod'Lair

You know, it's funny, one of the reasons why I'm one of the fewer Nai'xyy that was able to jump onto Pod'Lair reading pretty comfortably is because I saw some of the cues even before I joined Pod'Lair. For example, I noticed distinctly, and observed the Nyy eyes cue years ago! It turned out everyone I noticed this cue in were Nyy'xai, IE, what I saw were Nyy eyes cue when done by Nyy'xai. Same with voices - even between voices I thought were "dorky", I noticed there were differnet qualities to the dorkiness and different ways it hit me, and always felt it meant something, because I could feel these patterns in the air with body language and people but had no place to articulate it or share it with others. With Pod'Lair, once you start reading people correctly, it's insane the amount of detailed things you can say about people (or advice if they want it) after meeting them for 5 seconds; it's something I'd love love love to share the knowledge of (humans as an art) if you want to try learning it.

If any of you guys reading this are feeling daunted by the controversial nature of Pod'Lair feel free to PM me, I like sharing it with people who bring a good energy (enthusiastic, open-minded) to it. =)


Aware mouth and unaware mouth

Ooh, those are particularly hard cues to learn, but they are a range of expressions that can only come from each corresponding conscious power, Xyy and Xai. Xai is a reactive compass so it shows its expressions in an unaware sort of way, and it doesn't feel like the person's trying to influence you the way Xyy is. I often see Xai's muscular movements as "simpler" and it often hits me as "more authentic" because there isn't this feeling that it's trying to persuade you the way Xyy does. I have a video on this as well, PM me if you want to see it, but Nysamis is a Nyy'xai so you can see her use unaware mouth, and she doesn't use any aware mouth.


Mojo in Family:

@dark, we're still accumulating information on this, there seems to be some patterns in terms of mojo configuration in family but nothing conclusive. There are definitely families with completely unrelated mojos, and others where there are only two mojos within the family. I can tell you though, that my mojo is different from my family's.

 

[dark]

Okay just made another video and I ended up talking for 15 minutes, hopefully that is fine, the chart thing really helped, I started off not sure what to do, but after a while I actually started feeling comfortable since I had something to guide me. It is just really odd talking to an empty camera. Will have it on youtube and ready to send soon.

 

[Branden]

Hello everybody, My name is Branden and I am the the person referred to in the OP as having gone to stay at the Pod'lair HQ and spending a week learning exclusively how to read Mojo.

Due to the fact that I have first hand experience with the whole team involved and the methodology itself I think I can address some of the concerns in this thread.

First of all, it is not a cult. It is a bit redundant to have to confirm this again, but I will tell you from personal experience that the people who practice Pod'lair are all very independently minded and are in no way lead by some crazy lunatic or anything like that. Actually all of the people involved are very kind and intelligent. There is no "word of god" from anyone or anything, it functions as a research group with the goals for presenting its findings to the public. I was under no "order" to come to Pod'Lair HQ or anything, I was just very interested in the truth behind the model and so I asked if I could come meet the team (since I live a few hours away). They were more than happy to allow a visit and just let me see what it is they do when reading people. I was very interested and came to see the phenomenon that Pod'Lair is describing. After that I spent the rest of my time there gleaning as much information about people reading as possible.

Reading people is a very fascinating phenomenon that I believe humans have always subconsciously done to a certain degree. Much like any other scientific pursuit, we are simply describing a pre-existing condition.

For example, human beings in general recognize that when someone points at something or shows you the front of their palm that the person is making a directive gesture, one meant to influence or change something. Humans know this instinctively because on some low level they are reading the body language and physiological cues of the other human being.

Pod'lair has mapped these physiological cues and figured out their correspondence to different psychological functions (Pod Powers) through tremendous amounts of observation. It is important that you understand that Pod'lair was not invented from pure speculation, but actually started in the realm of people watching and noting their movements, like any scientific study would. Strong patterns begin to emerge in that data, and many years later it has been successfully mapped. Once you see it, you can't un-see it because it is truth. It is not all that unbelievable really, the brain isn't some piece of magic that can't be explained where everything else can.

What is interesting also is how many misconceptions MBTI gives you about things. I used to believe I was INTP or INTJ, because I knew i related with the descriptions of Nai and Zai (Ni and Ti) and I spent the last several years running in my Nai simulator finding all the incongruities within those 2 descriptions and myself. See, in the MBTI realm, Nai'xyy (INFJ) means that you are some fuzzy counselor type and that you have no scientific ability (it is a complete joke). Pod'lair has found nearly all Mojo's can manifest just about everywhere, the number of Nai'xyy in science is particularly staggering. Then the MBTI experts label them as Nai'zyy (INTJ) because they are in a logical pursuit, therefore they must be "thinkers". These lame short descriptions were actually a barrier to understanding Mojo reading correctly for me because I would look at a scientist and go "thinker!". It was completely stupid. To this day, by MBTI standard I am INTJ, but that doesn't actually say any real true thing about me or the cognitive powers I use.

Now let me address some concerns I had before Pod'lair that others have now. First, the "I wasn't acting like myself in the video thing". See, when somebody acts altered from their true nature (maybe a directive like me feigns adaptive), it manifests in a certain (sometimes more intense) way that is easily readable. When some one stops using momentum (roughly their first 2 conscious powers ) there is a shift in their behavior that is noted (this is a rough approximation of modulation) as a slowing down or change that is observable. For example, I have offside (3rd) level Zai (Ti), so when I use Zai, I am using a certain flavor of it that only offside Zai users do.

Let me elaborate, when you have a Zai'alpha, a Zai'nyy (INTP) or a Zai'vyy (ISTP), there is a certain quality to the Zai that only they possess. It is Zen like. There is little to no tension in their body and their mental state closely resembles a neutral quality when gaining momentum (energy). In a Nai'xyy like myself for example, Zai is a bit different, because it is acting underneath the power of Nai and Xyy. This gives my Zai "Zen" more a humming tense hunter quality when being used, because I am a directive Mojo using an adaptive power. There are so many manifestations of these that I can't go through them all here right now, but once you see them, you cannot not see them. So the "not acting like myself" thing actually doesn't matter, because if you do act outside your usual nature, you have to use a power that is less preferred in your psyche, and that is measurable.

I think it was Dark above who mentioned he was driving in the filming, and so he squinted a lot. See as Nai'xyy, you have Vyy (Se) polar, which you must use when driving. So regardless of how you were acting, the levels of polar Vyy are clearly discernible in your video. Not matter how you act, it always actually is "you" because you cannot fake being a different Mojo, the physical manifestations are so different that it would be impossible to fake in anything more than a still shot. Regardless of that, we willl happily look at any other video you want and read you again : )

I may not have addressed every concern in this post, but please continue to ask questions and I will do the best I can to answer them. Pod'lair is not trying to con you, we are trying to show people some bit of truth we found.

 

[Masterlord]

Hello everybody, My name is Branden and I am the the person referred to in the OP as having gone to stay at the Pod'lair HQ and spending a week learning exclusively how to read Mojo.

Due to the fact that I have first hand experience with the whole team involved and the methodology itself I think I can address some of the concerns in this thread.

First of all, it is not a cult. It is a bit redundant to have to confirm this again, but I will tell you from personal experience that the people who practice Pod'lair are all very independently minded and are in no way lead by some crazy lunatic or anything like that. Actually all of the people involved are very kind and intelligent. There is no "word of god" from anyone or anything, it functions as a research group with the goals for presenting its findings to the public. I was under no "order" to come to Pod'Lair HQ or anything, I was just very interested in the truth behind the model and so I asked if I could come meet the team (since I live a few hours away). They were more than happy to allow a visit and just let me see what it is they do when reading people. I was very interested and came to see the phenomenon that Pod'Lair is describing. After that I spent the rest of my time there gleaning as much information about people reading as possible.

Reading people is a very fascinating phenomenon that I believe humans have always subconsciously done to a certain degree. Much like any other scientific pursuit, we are simply describing a pre-existing condition.

For example, human beings in general recognize that when someone points at something or shows you the front of their palm that the person is making a directive gesture, one meant to influence or change something. Humans know this instinctively because on some low level they are reading the body language and physiological cues of the other human being.

Pod'lair has mapped these physiological cues and figured out their correspondence to different psychological functions (Pod Powers) through tremendous amounts of observation. It is important that you understand that Pod'lair was not invented from pure speculation, but actually started in the realm of people watching and noting their movements, like any scientific study would. Strong patterns begin to emerge in that data, and many years later it has been successfully mapped. Once you see it, you can't un-see it because it is truth. It is not all that unbelievable really, the brain isn't some piece of magic that can't be explained where everything else can.

What is interesting also is how many misconceptions MBTI gives you about things. I used to believe I was INTP or INTJ, because I knew i related with the descriptions of Nai and Zai (Ni and Ti) and I spent the last several years running in my Nai simulator finding all the incongruities within those 2 descriptions and myself. See, in the MBTI realm, Nai'xyy (INFJ) means that you are some fuzzy counselor type and that you have no scientific ability (it is a complete joke). Pod'lair has found nearly all Mojo's can manifest just about everywhere, the number of Nai'xyy in science is particularly staggering. Then the MBTI experts label them as Nai'zyy (INTJ) because they are in a logical pursuit, therefore they must be "thinkers". These lame short descriptions were actually a barrier to understanding Mojo reading correctly for me because I would look at a scientist and go "thinker!". It was completely stupid. To this day, by MBTI standard I am INTJ, but that doesn't actually say any real true thing about me or the cognitive powers I use.

Now let me address some concerns I had before Pod'lair that others have now. First, the "I wasn't acting like myself in the video thing". See, when somebody acts altered from their true nature (maybe a directive like me feigns adaptive), it manifests in a certain (sometimes more intense) way that is easily readable. When some one stops using momentum (roughly their first 2 conscious powers ) there is a shift in their behavior that is noted (this is a rough approximation of modulation) as a slowing down or change that is observable. For example, I have offside (3rd) level Zai (Ti), so when I use Zai, I am using a certain flavor of it that only offside Zai users do.

Let me elaborate, when you have a Zai'alpha, a Zai'nyy (INTP) or a Zai'vyy (ISTP), there is a certain quality to the Zai that only they possess. It is Zen like. There is little to no tension in their body and their mental state closely resembles a neutral quality when gaining momentum (energy). In a Nai'xyy like myself for example, Zai is a bit different, because it is acting underneath the power of Nai and Xyy. This gives my Zai "Zen" more a humming tense hunter quality when being used, because I am a directive Mojo using an adaptive power. There are so many manifestations of these that I can't go through them all here right now, but once you see them, you cannot not see them. So the "not acting like myself" thing actually doesn't matter, because if you do act outside your usual nature, you have to use a power that is less preferred in your psyche, and that is measurable.

I think it was Dark above who mentioned he was driving in the filming, and so he squinted a lot. See as Nai'xyy, you have Vyy (Se) polar, which you must use when driving. So regardless of how you were acting, the levels of polar Vyy are clearly discernible in your video. Not matter how you act, it always actually is "you" because you cannot fake being a different Mojo, the physical manifestations are so different that it would be impossible to fake in anything more than a still shot. Regardless of that, we willl happily look at any other video you want and read you again : )

I may not have addressed every concern in this post, but please continue to ask questions and we who are here from Pod'lair will answer them. We are not trying to con you, we are trying to show people some bit of truth we found.

Branden Five Gears 01 - YouTube

Is that you?

 

[Branden]

Branden Five Gears 01 - YouTube

Is that you?

Yes that is me. It is very long, but if you would like you can watch that whole series to get a basic idea of cues and how we read people. It lacks people pool examples but it is a basic overview.

 

[Masterlord]

Yes that is me. It is very long, but if you would like you can watch that whole series to get a basic idea of cues and how we read people. It lacks people pool examples but it is a basic overview.

Has pod'lair taken away your free will?

 

[Branden]

Has pod'lair taken away your free will?

Of course not. I am still the same EE major, Starcraft playing nerd I was before I found Pod'lair. I just have some new skills now that I use when interacting with people : )

 

[Masterlord]

Of course not. I am still the same EE major, Starcraft playing nerd I was before I found Pod'lair. I just have some new skills now that I use when interacting with people : )

Of the people who have submitted videos and rejected pod'lair, what have you read them as?

 

[Branden]

Of the people who have submitted videos and rejected pod'lair, what have you read them as?

We have had a variety of different Mojos who have been read and chosen to stay or not. The main team itself consists of several different Mojos, and those who have chosen not to accept it have had significant variation as well.

I think that one of the themes is that some people who submit a video to be read are unhappy with their results because they weren't what they thought they were, or they didn't like the MBTI descriptions of the rough correlating type. People immediately want to correlate to MBTI because that is where they came from and that causes them to want to associate what we tell them with that. It is sad actually, because the MBTI model is so limiting and actually near damning. The MBTI model actually almost puts limits on what people think they can do based on their configuration, due to its short and narrowing descriptions of them. Come on "INTJ's, the Scientists", or "INFJ's, the Counselors", it is stupid to think that this system can measure the potential capability of a human being. Pod'lair is not about measuring your potential or telling you what you can and cannot do. Pod'lair is simply about learning about the cognitive differences between how others and yourself approach things and recognizing them.

The idea is to learn about yourself so that you can be a better person by recognizing how you and others operate. It is not some stereotypical system designed for bashing one another and measuring "who's go the best configuration".

Like I said, I am an EE major and a Nai'xyy. By MBTI standard I am in the wrong field, as an INFJ I should go cozy up to more people and chain myself to a tree or something to defend the rainforest. I know that if any MBTI expert were to "type" me it would likely be as INTJ because I am in engineering and love it.

It frustrates me how archetypal the MBTI system is. Once people find out they are type X then they must be like the people in the descriptions, rather than whoever they actually are. That is what Pod'lair doesn't want. We aren't going to give you some description of the careers your good at and tell you who to be.

 

[Auburn]

position B:

Podlair might possess a higher level of psychological accuracy, but it is a part of the collective progression that has been made in psychology (specifically Jung) in the last century.

​

elaboration:

Knowledge is never complete, but there are various levels of purity attained as our understanding (as a species) evolves throughout aeons. We use the previous generation as a template from which to build higher understandings, and thus have attained the intelligence we now hold.

This refinement of concepts occurs when new information is added to per-existing understanding to better comprehend the idea being discussed; not replacing but expanding. As one example of this, Gregor Mendel who first began identifying the hereditary elements which would later be called Genes, is still credited as the Originator even though he was incorrect in some assumptions, as is typical for pioneers in any field. The term "gene" was officially coined a few decades after his death by Wilhelm Johannsen to describe a single hereditary attribute.

Although the patterns had been identified via observation since the 1850s, the empirical aspect of genes was not introduced until the 1940s when the discovery of DNA was made. However the term gene is still used to describe the concept that originated as an abstraction. The empirical evidence served to solidify the already existing hypothesis of genes - and through this incorporation many more misconceptions were fixed (as is expected) - but the discovery of DNA did not override the origins or names from which the abstract concepts first took root.

Another example of this is the Atom ::: In approximately 450 BCE, Democritus coined the term átomos (Greek: ἄτομος), which means "uncuttable" or "the smallest indivisible particle of matter" Link ::: which has undergone many changes in definition since its initial conceptualization but has kept the same name since fundamentally it has always been describing the same thing.

The exact same thing is happening here with Jung and Podlair.
To begin, a quote from Jung:

"My typology is far rather a critical apparatus serving to sort out and organize the welter of empirical material, but not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight.

It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes than can be shown to be typical." - Psychological Types

​

In here we see that Jung was not advocating a physiognomy. Hence any accusations toward Jung's theory being wrong/flawed because it did not possess a physiological component from which to identify type - is void. He was not professing to identify type via physiology, but rather, he could see the subtle patterns of psychic processes which he knew had an empirical origin.

Essentially what Jung did was identify the processes present without claiming they correlate to anything physical. Jung's predecessors then proceeded to take his psychic templates and start forming lists of people via type, such as MBTI and Kerisey.

Podlair comes in and says the MBTI is crap, and somehow also says Jung is too - when in reality Podlair is using almost the exact same psychology as Jung, but identified and categorized via a physiognomy.

Putting aside the physiognomy, if the psychology Jung saw and the psychology Podlair sees are so immensely similar (I'd be open to a debate if you don't think they are, but it seems dead obvious to me.) then the psychology Podlair is describing is the exact one Jung was describing in nature.

The only difference is that Jung did not tie his concepts to anything literal/tangible, possibly because he couldn't but neither was he claiming to. But regardless of this he was first to identify these abstractions (just like Mendel & Democritus). Podlair needs to acknowledge that it is an extension/refinement of Jung's concepts - via the incorporation of the physiological identificaion of the psychic processes he first identified/coined - and not something entirely unprecedented.


Preemptive

Podlair could choose to counter this by saying that Thomas Chenault came up with these theories entirely without awareness of Jung's works, but that would not give him ownership of them anyhow. As in the case with Newton and Leibniz and the discovery of Calculus, just because someone rediscovers something (independently) that has already existed - doesn't mean you have claim over it.

If I had been raised in exclusion from society by suppressive parents, and in abode I independently discover General Relativity but call it something different, and I emerged from my abode as an adult to present my breakthrough to the world - I would not be credited with the find since it was already found - with or without my awareness.

Maybe Thomas did discover the psychology of cognitive functions (Pod Powers) by himself but as far as I can see he can only lay originality claims to the physiological aspects of his theory since the psychological was already found by Jung (give or take a few adjustments).

 

[Nysamis]

As promised, here is part one of a four-part series. (Wow, four parts – almost makes the fact that I ended up with four tutorials look...planned.)

Any given Mojo will have four Mojos in particular that share many of the same cues. As mentioned in one of the tutorials, no other Mojo can give off all the cues I give off. But some get pretty close, for different reasons.

Here's a nice list of the beginner-level cues I give off and [what they mean]:
* Nyy Dancing Eyes, buoyant signal [Nyy Mojo]
* Signal of Buoyancy is the most dominant [Nyy Alpha]
* Eyes have a Syncopated (appears to be having another mental dialogue) as opposed to Accentuated, solid rhythm [Interpretive]
* Natural State Nyy perk-up [Nyy Mojo]
* Unhooded Eyes [Objective]
* Gatherer Eyes [Adaptive]
* Right Xai Drift, emotiveness picks up when eyes disengage [Xai User]
* Left Vai Check, look of concern [Vai User]
* Eye drifts and checks have a “going underwater” look that shows lack of comfortability [Objective]
* Unaware Mouth [Xai User]
* Voice has the weighty emotive spectrum of Earnest to Mournful [Xai User]
* Anvil Cheeks [Zyy User]
* Cool Articulation [Zyy User]
* Emotive expression goes above the Midline of the Mouth and Voice [Values-Based]
* Emotive expression does not go into the facial or vocal Brimline [Lead Perceiver]
* Natural State Yin Gesturing and Altered State Yang Gesturing [Adaptive]
* Natural State Approachability and Altered State Boundary Setting [Adaptive]
* Altered State Jutting [Adaptive]
* Jutting is cool and forceful, not warm and persuasive [Zyy User]
* The majority of movements are side to side, as opposed to back to front [Adaptive]
* Lots of overall movement, movements are quick [Objective]
* Movement is fluid and has an overall “bobblehead” quality [Nyy Mojo]
* Ease of Double Barreling (using both Objective Powers) [Objective]
* Altered State Channeling (using both Subjective Powers) [Objective]
* Speech is not inherently structured [Adaptive]

How Pod'Lair Reads People: Introduction & Five Fields - YouTube

I am a Nyy'xai ??(@), which roughly correlates to ENFP in MBTI and other Jungian models. This means the Power of Nyy (??) is the biggest source of mental energy for me, and therefore this Objective, Adaptive, Interpretative Power most defines me and gives meaning to my life. But like that scene in Return of the Jedi when Yoda said “there... is... another... Skywalker,” there is another Mojo that shares this outlook on life, but in a slightly different way (no, not the incestuous way).

The Nyy'zai ??(=), which roughly equates to ENTP, is the Nyy'xai's Same Source Partner, which is one of the twenty Social Alchemy groupings. That topic is rather advanced for a beginner, but suffice it to say there are many different ways for humans to relate to other humans. Sometimes it can be quite hard to see the similarities, but that is not the case for this dynamic. Having the same Source Power means sharing a boatload of similarities. The key differences lie in the Pod Power compounds they use.

As a Nyy'xai, my Nyy and Xai (as well as my Modulation Powers of Zyy and Vai) form what we call a Compound Relationship. It is helpful to think of each Pod Power as a subatomic particle that cannot make an entire atom. This is because each power does not work in a vacuum. It pairs up with another power on the same side of the brain. My Nyy is therefore always flavored with Xai, even if I'm using much more Nyy in the moment than Xai. If you hate pepperoni but find them mockingly perched on top of that crappy pizza (which is somehow the only pizza left – noooo!) at your event, you're going to roll your eyes at that stupid pepperoni lover who innocently suggested you remove the offending so-called “edible item” from your pizza. It's just not the same as a succulent cheese pizza, because the pepperoni grease seeps into the cheese around it, and you will still be able to taste that oh-so-disgusting processed meat that you hate. The pepperoni flavors the entire pizza, and likewise the nature of the compound changes when there is a different Tandem there. If you just look at how a Nyy Alpha is using their Nyy, you will still see traces of the Tandem. Perhaps Nyy'xai is a de-pepperoni'd “cheese” pizza and a Nyy'zai is a de-sausage'd “cheese” pizza. You can tell the difference between the pizzas upon eating them, even though they look very similar.

Here is how the above mentioned cues are the same and differ between the two Mojos. Differences have been struck through and rewritten in red:
* Nyy Dancing Eyes, buoyant signal [Nyy Mojo]
* Signal of Buoyancy is the most dominant [Nyy Alpha]
* Eyes have a Syncopated (appears to be having another mental dialogue) as opposed to Accentuated, solid rhythm [Interpretive]
* Natural State Nyy perk-up [Nyy Mojo]
* Unhooded Eyes [Objective]
* Gatherer Eyes [Adaptive]
* Right Xai Drift, emotiveness picks up when eyes disengage [Xai User] Right Zai Check, emotiveness decreases when eyes disengage [Zai User]
* Left Vai Check, look of concern [Vai User]
* Eye drifts and checks have a “going underwater” look that shows lack of comfortability [Objective]
* Unaware Mouth [Xai User] Aware Mouth [Xyy User]
* Voice has the weighty emotive spectrum of Earnest to Mournful [Xai User] Voice has the persuasive emotive spectrum of Butter to Baleful [Xyy User]
* Anvil Cheeks [Zyy User] Stoneface Cheeks [Zai User]
* Cool Articulation [Zyy User] Warm Articulation [Xyy User]
* Emotive expression goes above the Midline of the Mouth and Voice [Values-Based] Emotive expression goes below the Midline of the Mouth and Voice [Logic-Based]
* Emotive expression Neutralization does not go into the facial or vocal Brimline [Lead Perceiver]
* Natural State Yin Gesturing and Altered State Yang Gesturing [Adaptive]
* Natural State Approachability and Altered State Boundary Setting [Adaptive]
* Altered State Jutting [Adaptive]
* Jutting is cool and forceful, not warm and persuasive [Zyy User] Jutting is warm and persuasive, not cool and forceful [Xyy User]
* The majority of movements are side to side, as opposed to back to front [Adaptive]
* Lots of overall movement, movements are quick [Objective]
* Movement is fluid and has an overall “bobblehead” quality [Nyy Mojo]
* Ease of Double Barreling (using both Objective Powers) [Objective]
* Altered State Channeling (using both Subjective Powers) [Objective]
* Speech is not inherently structured [Adaptive]

Here is a Nyy'zai for compare-and-contrast purposes. Enter ??(=)X Cate Blanchett!
Cate Blanchett Plays Her Queen - YouTube

She starts this interview playing with her hair and looking rather cagey, as if she would rather not be doing this interview. Nyy'xai like myself are also very cagey, as caginess is a quality of being a Nez Alpha, or one of the four Mojos who have an Interpretive (N) power over a discernment power, either logic or values. This caginess shows up in both Mojos as a “hard to pin down” quality, as Vai is the Nyy Alpha's Polar Power. There is also a wildness to both Nyy Alpha's articulation, which can strike some people as odd, due to Xyy and Zyy's need for control. Because Nyy drives the ship, so to speak, Nyy Alpha Double Barreling (using both Objective Powers simultaneously) gives the third-ranked articulator this wild “where will this go?” unpredictable quality. This is why the Nyy Alpha are naturally cagey creatures.

Cate is rather restrained for an Objective Perceiver. Compare this restrained quality to the massive amount of buoyant energy and overall movement in my videos. (Just look at that hip shift right after I introduced the topic at 0:04 for one of many examples.) This is not a difference between Nyy'xai and Nyy'zai – this is just something that happens to Nyy Mojos when they have to use more of their Modulation powers. You can tell that Cate has some good Momentum going on because she has several Nyy perk-ups and periods with more gesturing. But overall, she is rather restrained in this interview; she uses Zai a lot without muting or slowing down her awesomely developed powers of Xyy articulation. This is quite impressive, but notice how much more awesome, intense, and sexy she is in the scenes from this “Elizabeth” movie. This is extremely common for Nyy Mojos, because they have to promote themselves and their movie in interviews like this. Nyy'zai in particular need to bring in their spunky persuasion with their Offside Xyy. She cannot be overly cold and she needs to engage with the Xyy. (Nyy'xai have to look strong enough to handle criticism with their chilly Zyy. Can they handle the logic and structure themselves well?) She also needs to be serious enough to structure her thoughts and get her point across with Vai. It is hard to sustain enough momentum while simultaneously getting your goal met with the Offside and Polar Directive Powers. Pod'Lair has helped me immensely in this respect, and I would not have been able to put myself out there like this before learning about how my innate configuration works. The aforementioned playing with the hair is Cate Blanchett's way of getting into the articulation and pushing groove. It is a ritual of sorts, and people are ritualistic by nature. I walk down to this area by a lake and go off the trail into the dense woods. It seems like an awesome adventure, and the seclusion of special places like the one I filmed at puts my Xai at ease. People are very different, so they will naturally find different ways and venues to access their Modulation Powers while still rocking some serious momentum. This is what works for me – your mileage may vary.

Nyy'zai can be very cute and playful with their tactical caring under their Source Power of Nyy, which is the power of pure possibility. That is one major playstyle, and many comedians and actresses play that angle. Another common playstyle is what you see here with Cate: a regal bearing that one may misread as Directive due to the gravitas of this approach. One thing that gives her this regal quality is the chilliness of her Zai. She articulates well, but the Zai over Xyy gives the articulation a more calibrated (as opposed to a fiery and passionate) quality. Personally, this makes me think of the purring of a cat: it shows pleasure in a directive fashion, but it has a more constant tone to it, as opposed to the greater variability of the tones a Xyy Mojo like Nai'xyy Natalie Portman has. (I won't go into detail about her, because she is not one of the four major misreads. You can do that for “extra credit” of sorts. Pull up a Natalie Portman interview. What can you see/hear?) Natalie emphasizes words with more passion than Cate does. Cate uses Xyy to this effect several times. (2:23, etc.) Her Xyy isn't imbued with as much feeling and passion as Natalie's. The purring analogy extends to the Adaptive use of Xyy: Cate's Zai takes the volatile edge off of the Xyy while still leaving enough passion to persuade.

Notice how my voice has a completely different tone as Cate's. I use a lot of Values-Based discernment in this tutorial, so I would think a casual observer who only knew about MBTI might correctly assume I am Values-Based, but often this is not the case with some Xai Mojos. This is because Xyy Mojos have very sweet and buttery tones of voice that go up and down in a very melodic fashion; Xai Mojos do not. This is the hypnotic quality that all Xyy Mojos (even Zai'nyy!) have to some degree. As Objective Discernment, Xyy is designed to move a dynamic: in this case a human one. The fluid micromovements of the Aware Mouth are designed to persuade and move these dynamics. You can think of the Aware Mouth as putting out all the stops to get people on board with what the Xyy User is saying. Xai does not do this because it is Subjective Discernment. These powers are naturally weighty and amorphous. Unlike Xyy, Xai often learns its boundaries through experience, as it does not naturally do this. Its values are less defined, so this power has an unaware, invested quality in it. This shows in its emotive spectrum, which is not persuasive Butter to the intimidation of Baleful like Xyy has. It runs in shades from Earnest to Mournful, and Xai alerts the environment to its emotional state in this unaware, authentic way. This shows up in its more monotone vocal tonality, which is paired with the Cool Articulation of Xyy. This is also why the Xai Unaware Mouth has less overall micromovements and focuses on gross muscle movements.

She has the Zai/Xyy mouth jostling thing going on, showing the commonality with the others in the Zai-Xyy Modulation Octate. (At 4:09 she does this while listening to the question, in anticipation of what discernment she will need to prioritize for it. This sort of mouth jostling often happens while an interviewee is listening or otherwise trying to find the exact words to say.) Cate Blanchett shows her Logic-Based nature in how quickly she can neutralize her expression. (Compare this to how easy it is for me to continually emote.) She has two flavors of smile: the neutral eyes smile and the more deliberate smile. She squints her eyes in this second kind of smile, which she displays at 2:23. This looks like it would be her "smile for the camera" smile, whereas the quick neutral eyes smile are for the times where she does not need to hold her smile as long. She does this at the end of the interview when they are talking about fashion. These show that she doesn't care for this topic as much - her squinty-eyed smiles look more genuine to me. She also does this quick smile to show she's actively listening - for instance at 1:16.

She does a claw hand at 3:27, but it has a less wild, more defined quality to them as opposed to the ones I'm rocking around 0:18 of this tutorial. The “water off a duck's back” quality that Zai has, as well as its more defined, Logic-Based nature gives this claw this less wild quality. Her movements are overall less fluid as mine due to the more Yang nature of her Tandem. Cate also uses some altered-state Yang gestures and Yin gestures in this interview as well. All of them are very close to her body, which is a hallmark of an Adaptive Nature. (Notice how I often gesticulate with the lower half of my arms, but keep the upper part locked close to my body most of the time in this tutorial.) Like all Nyy Mojos, especially the Nyy Alpha, Cate Blanchett moves her head around in a fast and fluid manner that we affectionately call “bobblehead.” She is quite expressive with her head movements at times, and she has the Adaptive sway to her overall carriage as well. The part where she says Elizabeth was destined to rule is very intriguing, as she starts leaning forward while disengaged into Vai, and once she comes out of it she looks at the interviewer. (Around 2:58.) It's not the natural buttery jut of a Xyy Mojo Directive, but she uses the gravitas of her Vai and then articulates it with Xyy while altered state jutting to persuasively state her case. This is a very high level maneuver – not many Nyy'zai or Objective Perceivers in general can pull this off.

Cate has a confident-cagey look when engaging with the camera and the interviewer. It gives her a lot of sexy charm (in her chilly way). This ability to look at the camera for long periods of time with the buoyant eyes of Source Nyy gives both Nyy Alpha lots of charm. (This also shows their Objective nature; even shy Nyy Alpha can stare into the camera for longer periods of time than Subjectives can.) There are many Nyy Alpha in creative fields like acting and music, and they are often very highly ranked on lists of the sexiest women alive. It is great that people appreciate some aspects of the Nyy Alpha, even though their overall creative process is not all that well-understood. But these two Mojos are some of the ones that dominate people's ideas on what is considered “sexy,” even among Mojos that would not mesh well with the Nyy'xai or Nyy'zai. One reason why people need to learn how to accurately read Mojo is so this monopoly on sexiness can change to something more all-inclusive. All Mojos are appealing, though your own apparatus will always be naturally drawn to certain Mojos. This is nature's way of making sure you don't surround yourself with people who suppress you.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

in the MBTI realm, Nai'xyy (INFJ) means that you are some fuzzy counselor type and that you have no scientific ability

Several INFJ descriptions mention a tendency of many of them towards science, and even Pod'lair describes F as being "values based". You're strawmanning somewhat here. And if you would be considered INTJ, is that implying you would be considered a Te/Fi user? Or are you just pointing out the insufficiencies in identification of functions before? You'd be right there of course, and that's why many are hopeful for Pod'lair, even if their presentation is currently very lacking.

However, I believe you're right that the previous notions of INFJ were probably too narrow given the broad range of people that have been typed that way. This does show a very non-trivial insufficiency in any previous methods of type identification.

 

[Adymus]

I'll take this one. I've been meaning to tie up this lose end.

Another example of this is the Atom ::: In approximately 450 BCE, Democritus coined the term átomos (Greek: ἄτομος), which means "uncuttable" or "the smallest indivisible particle of matter" Link ::: which has undergone many changes in definition since its initial conceptualization but has kept the same name since fundamentally it has always been describing the same thing.

Actually I am glad you brought up Democritus, because as you have covered, he is very similar to Jung in this context, especially in the sense that both were philosophers, and no more than that.

Why is it that right now Carl Jung is laughed at by a significant amount of the skeptical community? It is mainly because he believed in Telepathy, and the Collective Unconscious and Syncronicity sound really airy fairy to them, but most importantly it is because he had nothing to show for his work. He did not discover anything, he merely speculated on the existence of a phenomenon, much like Democritus and the Atom, and much like many other people who are long forgotten

In the world of discovery, speculation does not count, you have to go all the way from Nai to Vyy, concept to reality. Thomas has discovered a connection that has never been discovered in the history of mankind, and when you discover something you get to name it, much like when you discover a new star, you get to name that. Sure, sometimes inventors or record breakers will name their discovery after speculations that sounded like they were talking about said discovery from the past (like the Atom), but they don't have to, it is theirs to name as they see fit. If they feel their discovery needs an entirely new name, then no one has the right to tell them what to do with a discovery that they had no part in finding.

No one own's natural law, especially if they can't even point it out properly in nature.

The exact same thing is happening here with Jung and Podlair.
To begin, a quote from Jung:

"My typology is far rather a critical apparatus serving to sort out and organize the welter of empirical material, but not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight.

It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes than can be shown to be typical." - Psychological Types

​

In here we see that Jung was not advocating a physiognomy. Hence any accusations toward Jung's theory being wrong/flawed because it did not possess a physiological component from which to identify type - is void. He was not professing to identify type via physiology, but rather, he could see the subtle patterns of psychic processes which he knew had an empirical origin.

This is by far the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard in favor of what you are presenting.

Obviously Jung needed to discover a physical connection for his theory, because without that you a.) Cannot prove that it exists in the first place, and b.) cannot have a working system for doing what he wanted to do. It is the only way that you can identify a person's cognitive configuration, and without it, you have nothing.

So it is actually because his work was not a Physiognomy that he failed to create a working system of typology, and by working system, I mean one that you can actually, you know... do stuff with that actually works. (and not just one that you can do theoretical circle jerking with on typology forums.)

So to say that he did not fail because he neglected to discover the most crucial element is like saying the predecessors of Thomas Edison did not fail to invent the Lightbulb because they were not "trying to invent a lightbulb that incorporated the Sprengle Pump" which proved to be a crucial addition that made the invention a success. It doesn't matter what you think you are supposed to do to make an invention or discovery, you still fail when you don't do it right.

Essentially what Jung did was identify the processes present without claiming they correlate to anything physical. Jung's predecessors then proceeded to take his psychic templates and start forming lists of people via type, such as MBTI and Kerisey.

Podlair comes in and says the MBTI is crap, and somehow also says Jung is too - when in reality Podlair is using almost the exact same psychology as Jung, but identified and categorized via a physiognomy.

Putting aside the physiognomy, if the psychology Jung saw and the psychology Podlair sees are so immensely similar (I'd be open to a debate if you don't think they are, but it seems dead obvious to me.) then the psychology Podlair is describing is the exact one Jung was describing in nature.

Then why are these theories off? Why is it that Pod'Lair is necessary to correct their work, and fix their mistakes if it is the exact same psychology?

Why are the Authorities of these models only around 19% to 30% accurate at best?

Why is the Jungian Model just a pet theory?

The logic of this is just that if these were the same models, we would be bringing nothing new to the table, but not only are we completely correcting the models that came before, we also have an understanding of concepts and patterns that these models are completely blind to, and have no hope of ever discovering. Where exactly is the Understanding Continuum, Scientific-Spirituality Index, The Four Languages of Understanding, Peak Pathways, Social Alchemy, The Five Gears of Mojo Reading, Will to shine, Synomnia, Inspirational Storylines, Spirit Forms (all of the many different kinds of Spirit Forms, not just what relates most to Archetypes), Change Flow, and the laundry list of other pathways, disciplines, concepts, and discoveries that are not in the Jungian model, in the Jungian Model?

The Jungian Model uses a very rudimentary understanding of cognitive functions (not even properly understanding their roles in the Psyche) at best, so no, while there are a handful of Mojo Dojo Human design principles that do correlate, they are not the same. There is a very big different between a correlation, and being the exact same thing. In practice it leads to a very different understanding of what the Cognitive configuration is in the first place, and how it actually plays out and can be effected by other facts. These, the Jungian Models never got right.

The only difference is that Jung did not tie his concepts to anything literal/tangible, possibly because he couldn't but neither was he claiming to. But regardless of this he was first to identify these abstractions. Podlair needs to acknowledge that it is an extension/refinement of Jung's concepts - via the incorporation of the physiological identificaion of the psychic processes he first identified/coined - and not something entirely unprecedented.

And that is why his theory is obsolete.

But more importantly, who do you think you are? You are in no position to make demands on how Thomas should use his own theory or name his own discoveries. Thomas did something Jung could not do, and because of that he made a discovery that Jung never made, and thus can (and will) do things with his theory that Jung could never do. Thomas has his own vision that he is going to see to, and he is not bound to follow anyone else's vision. Especially not the guy that was wrong.

Preemptive

Podlair could choose to counter this by saying that Thomas Chenault came up with these theories entirely without awareness of Jung's works, but that would not give him ownership of them anyhow. As in the case with Newton and Leibniz and the discovery of Calculus, just because someone rediscovers something (independently) that has already existed - doesn't mean you have claim over it.

If I had been raised in exclusion from society by suppressive parents, and in abode I independently discover General Relativity but call it something different, and I emerged from my abode as an adult to present my breakthrough to the world - I would not be credited with the find since it was already found - with or without my awareness.

Maybe Thomas did discover the psychology of cognitive functions (Pod Powers) by himself but as far as I can see he can only lay originality claims to the physiological aspects of his theory since the psychological was already found by Jung (give or take a few adjustments).

Then why aren't you advocating the giving of credit for the Big Bang theory to Mohammud?

YUSUFALI: Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

PICKTHAL: Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?

SHAKIR: Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were closed up, but We have opened them; and We have made of water everything living, will they not then believe?

There are actually many other passages from the Quran that sound like later Scientific Discoveries, such as life coming from water, Embryology, the formation of clouds and rain, and these were not discoveries, but speculations on how certain phenomena work or came to be, that sound like they are talking about scientific principles. Not at all unlike much like the Atom.

The Islamic philosopher Rumi even made speculations that sound exactly like Evolution, but you don't see Darwin naming his work after anything he did.

If you seriously believe that the credit for later discoveries is owed to the first guy that said "Hey I think we stick to the planet because we have invisible rubber bands on our feet."

Then why aren't you saying Jung deserved the credit for his work to Astrology, or even the Four Temperments? Because he most certainly was not the first to acknowledge the phenomenon of personality typology.

And if your response to that is "Because he speculated on the cognitive functions." then my response to that is: True, but he was not correct on how they work.

Your analogy with the theory of Relativity is completely absurd, because Thomas did not just discover the same thing that was already discovered (Jung provided no evidence for Cognitive functions, they were never actually discovered)


On top of that, his theory on how they work was not even correct. Mojo Dojo is currently the only correct theory on Cognitive Configuration, anything else is inadequate. Hell the only thing that Democratus actually got right about atoms is that everything is made out of tiny little things, he actually thought fire was painful to touch because the atoms that it is made out of are prickly.
Now of course you believe the theories are the same, and you would be wrong, you only think that because you are griping about the theories being the same instead of actually learning our Theory, when really you are just making up excuses to talk yourself out of the need to having to drop what you are doing and learn Pod'Lair from the ground up. Very little of what you think is true, is actually true, and that is why you butted heads with so many people on the Pod'Lair forums when you were there. You believed you already knew our theory, when all you knew was an obsolete model. You believed John Nash was supposed to be Zai'nyy just because he was into math and patterns (which is far more attributed to Nai than Zai), and you would not have known that this assumption was false if it was not for Pod'Lair theory and Mojo Reading. Your incompetence is a product of Jung's failed theory. Again, if the theory was right to begin with then your Authorities ability to apply the theory would not be as laughable as they are.

Honestly, if you can't even get your speculations right, none the less make a real discovery, then you don't deserve a damn thing from the person that did what you could not do. When you break a record, then you are the new Champion, not the old guy, that guy was beat.

Break Thomas' Record, and you are free to name your discoveries whatever you damn well please. Until then, neither you nor anyone else has the right to tell us what we should be doing with our own theory.

 

[Auburn]

>_<

..okay, resorting to personal attacks, that was mean.

I'm trying to have a neutral debate here.

 

[Adymus]

>_<

..okay, resorting to personal attacks, that was mean.

I'm trying to have a neutral debate here.

So am I.

What, the Incompetence part?

It is the truth, and from one Zai'nyy to another I am telling it like it is in the ruthless tongue of our Mojo.

And I am being 100% neutral by pointing this out, it is what it is Auburn, whether you like it or not.

 

[Auburn]

I disagree. Statements such as this...

Honestly, if you can't even get your speculations right, none the less make a real discovery, then you don't deserve a damn thing from the person that did what you could not do.

..are entirely personal judgments. What a person "deserves" or doesn't "deserve" is an Objective Values Judgment, specifically your Fe/Xyy - not at all a cool impersonal/neutral truth. You're not telling "how it is" ; those are not Truths but emotionally charged opinions...

What, the Incompetence part?
It is the truth, and from one Zai'nyy to another I am telling it like it is in the ruthless tongue of our Mojo.

You cannot measure truth based on competence or incompetence because the criteria for truth is not based on application. Truth, by itself, doesn't give a fly if there are or aren't any practical applications to its finds. Truth is motionless. It has no agenda, just awareness.

And I am being 100% neutral by pointing this out, it is what it is Auburn, whether you like it or not.

You are making a 'rational' judgment ("Jung's theory was incompetent therefore incorrect") using competence as the criteria of measure instead of accuracy (in some areas of your post).

Is this how Podlair has been teaching you to wield your Zai/Ti?
Is this an example of refined and actualized Zai power flow?
Because if it is, then I want no part in Podlair..

Unfortunately that has nothing to do with the validity/invalidity of your theory so although I dislike your methodology I don't much disagree with the premise. I, like many here, want the knowledge without having to jump hoops and preform ego-stroking rituals for Thomas.

However, since sharing your understanding truly is at your discretion, and you choose not to share unless people play your games - adapt your attitude, values, beliefs, thoughts - then feel free to cast me out.

Nice avatar, btw..

 

[Nysamis]

What we're basically trying to say Auburn, is that you need to realize that you are holding a position. It's what Zai'nyy excel at, and they use this to benefit the rest of humanity so it can have different "specialists" like myself who lend their other gifts to the tribe. This makes for a very efficient system, which you should appreciate.

However, all Zai'nyy need to realize that their position is only as good as it's weakest flaw. You need to continually check the logic of your position to see if it holds up to the way things work and how they could possibly work. If your position holds, it is true until further notice. But if not, you need to see what element could possibly make the entire math tie into one coherent whole. For that is what Natural Law really is - you can think of it as an entire system of pieces that make a whole puzzle. In Natural Law, all the pieces fit together perfectly. I'm not extremely fond of making Christian metaphors, but the "we (humans) see as if through a glass darkly" (or however it actually goes) metaphor for how us finite creatures see Natural Law as it ever expands before our eyes.

Just let that sink in for a while. The universe is expanding. Just the fact that the universe doesn't stay still says something big about what Natural Law's all about. People need to constantly expand their mental, logical, emotional, physical, etc horizons or they will stagnate. And stagnation is really an unheroic act that basically says "I have given up at finding the truth, and I will coast by because I am weak and failed." This is giving up on the unique gifts of your Zai and Nyy, because in the Zai of things, the 49/51 of that decision is "will I bloom or fall?*" These are awesomely powerful gifts that I can never truly experience because I am a different configuration. You need to constantly expand the scope and power of these two Powers in particular so you can help the world function better. If the world has systems that function better, people are better off. And if people are better off, they are nicer to each other, which makes for a better planet. This makes for even better systems, and so the cycle goes.

But if Zai stops being relentless at uncovering the truth because it is comfortable with its current position, it has stopped being strong. Coasting on what you know is a recipe for inviting in weakness. Because the world keeps turning and the universe keeps expanding. You need to be on the lookout for possibilities to make your logic stronger. If your logic is stronger, you can do better things with that logic than others. People look up to those who can perform feats of ultimate strength - they don't care much for losers except to study where they failed so they don't make that mistake. Much that can be said about losers is they stopped trying. They coasted. How many times have people done what every elementary schoolkid who read the story about the tortoise and the hare could see was weak and stupid? These people thought they were strong, so they didn't push themselves. And then when someone who was absolutely relentless in pushing all they were to the limits breezed by them, all they could do was open their mouths in horrific awe - a silent "oh shit" coupled with the ruthless truth that they could no longer claim the mantle of strength.

Adymus is patiently explaining how Jung coasted by. He made many decisions not to tie his model with reality. He stuck with speculation because as a Nai Alpha, that is what he was comfortable with. And because he did not attempt to find empirical proof of his theories, his speculations were worse as a result. This is once again, a story of the fear of one's Polar Power (in his case Vyy) stymieing one's Source Power (Jung's Nai) and making it weaker and less effective as a result.

You have the chance to not make this mistake. You can listen to the Xyy pushback (and with this, some Zyy pushback) you are getting and change your position. Perhaps in the case of shoring up your Zai's weaknesses, you will find Pod'Lair is wrong and finally be able to prove that. This is what heroic Zai Alpha do. If we are wrong, we deserve the best opponents. Not ones who make the same arguments that have been debunked.

Your Zai should be fascinated by all the things our system can do, or says it can do. Look at the side-by-side analysis I wrote about the similarities and differences between my cues and Cate Blanchett's. That is only the fraction of what we can see on video. I have written much more about different interviews. With all the power the Pod'Lair system is showing so far, one would think there might be some merit there. This could finally be an actually logical system that can analyze other people with astonishing accuracy - something you should be giddy about in your chilly way. Your Zai should be able to see if this is true or bullshit that needs a debunking on it's own merits. You should be able to see that much of what we are talking about is unprecedented. You don't see writing like this in any of Jung's books or any typology forum. What we claim we can do is at the very least a new interesting form of Stupid, and should therefore fascinate your Nyy.

All you need to do is drop your assumptions. They are keeping you from greatness. Just look at any MBTI or typology forums. It's always the same crap, or at least the same kind of crap. That's repetition, and that shit gets old. There's always someone who can't figure out their type. Logically, they have all the tools they need to find their type. Jung wrote a lot of nifty stuff about the functions, did he not? Many modern theorists have taken up the mantle of Modern Day Jung, and they seek ways to make typing oneself easier and much more "duh." But people still can't do this, after all these "innovations" have been made. And it's always the same dumb questions too. The whole INFP or INTP thing. The INTP or INTJ thing. And so on and so forth. No matter how smart Jung and his successors are or were, there's clearly something broken about this system. And why perpetuate a broken system? That in itself is highly illogical.

I had a lot of assumptions too. I had to drop them, and some of them hurt to drop. I had misread myself, my family, coworkers, etc. I thought I should live in a way that did not suit my energetic needs. I came onto the website later than you did. You saw the stupid shit I wrote when I barely had any knowledge as well. The only thing I did that you didn't was to keep on learning and knowing that these people had knowledge I didn't have. Once I uncovered enough pieces, I would be able to see if they all connected into an interlocking puzzle. And I still think it all fits into a coherent whole, which is the best compliment Nyy can pay to any model.

The only thing that you should think is true right now is you need a model with stronger logic and with pieces that fit in the right places. Perhaps Pod'Lair is it. I think it is, but don't take my word for it. Come back with the mind of a student so you can eviscerate everything we say with your Zai. (We don't mind, really. This is what we want. Adymus for one will most definitely understand.) If the model still holds, then perhaps you have found something after all. You should at least be able to see how silly (read: non sequitur) your arguments sound if the Pod'Lair model is true.

*This is a line (one of the ones in English, that is) from the iconic J-rock band LUNA SEA's "Rosier." The lesson is clear, and is probably the best closing line I can muster: "Whether I bloom or fall, is up to me."

 

[Adymus]

I disagree. Statements such as this...
..are entirely personal judgments. What a person "deserves" or doesn't "deserve" is an Objective Values Judgment, specifically your Fe/Xyy - not at all a cool impersonal/neutral truth. You're not telling "how it is" ; those are not Truths but emotionally charged opinions...

That is actually true, that particular example anyway, however that exact same principle should be applied to everything in your original argument. You are making a completely subjective values statement in telling us what we need to do with our own discovery, just because YOU think it is right to do such and such, just because some guys named their discovery after such and such. You don't get to make that call, no one gets to make that call, and no matter what we choose to do, there is nothing you can do about the outcome. There is no Law or Logic that decides how this is supposed to work.

You cannot measure truth based on competence or incompetence because the criteria for truth is not based on application. Truth, by itself, doesn't give a fly if there are or aren't any practical applications to its finds. Truth is motionless. It has no agenda, just awareness.

You are making a 'rational' judgment ("Jung's theory was incompetent therefore incorrect") using competence as the criteria of measure instead of accuracy (in some areas of your post).

No, actually I can, and yes, actually it is.

You failed to get the correct answer because you assumed a natural phenomenon worked in a way that it did not.

There is no agenda here, it is just the truth.

You were basing your assumptions on the assumptions that you acquired from the Jungian Model(s), is this not correct? Were those assumptions enough to equip you with the skills needed to make accurate predictions?

No, they clearly were not.

The merit of a theory is measured by its ability to make accurate predictions, and in the Jungian Model all you have to make predictions with are assumptions on how stuff works, no evidence, just assumptions, there is nothing else to the model other than that. If your predictions were not correct due to the assumptions that the theory equipped you with being incorrect, then obviously the theory itself is misleading you, and is thus, flawed

That is just the Zai of it, and if you cannot see that, then... Well, that is just pretty bad.

Now incorrectness is not always do to a theory being wrong, there is also user error, or user ignorance to take into account, and most of the time a seasoned MBTI know-it-all (like yourself) will blame incompetence on user ignorance. But you were technically not doing MBTI or the Jungian model wrong, you were actually applying its principles in the way that it said you are supposed to be applying its assumptions, and there is a very very strong chance the Authorities that represent these models would have agreed with you.

However, your vast knowledge of Jungian theory was not enough, you were applying one of the most Base-line fundamental assumptions of these models: If you are a thinker, then you will be stimulated doing thinker stuff, which is apparently Math and Patterns.

That oh so elementary of assumptions turned out to be something that cannot be trusted, and if that cannot be trusted then what can you trust? Sometimes it is actually true, there are many Logic-Based Mojos that are totally into Math and pattern cracking, but it is not always true, a significant portion of Values-Based Mojos are also totally into Math and Pattern Cracking, something that you associated with Logic-Based Mojos Exclusively. Thus to present an assumption like this as if it were always true, is incorrect, and if you do not have a clue when an assumption can be trusted and when it can't be trusted, then you're assumptions are useless.

And if your theory is made of of these untrustworthy assumptions and nothing else, then it is also incorrect and useless.

Is this how Podlair has been teaching you to wield your Zai/Ti?
Is this an example of refined and actualized Zai power flow?
Because if it is, then I want no part in Podlair..

Damn straight.
That's fine, I'll leave you to your Circle Jerk.

However, since sharing your understanding truly is at your discretion, and you choose not to share unless people play your games - adapt your attitude, values, beliefs, thoughts - then feel free to cast me out.

Kay.

Nice avatar, btw.

Oh hey thanks! I made it mahself.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I don't know if anyone is denying the implications of what Pod'lair has discovered if true, Adymus. I mostly see criticisms of how they are behaving, which you're not really addressing (not that you yourself have to).

If you have as revolutionary a set of ideas as is claimed, then you would want to get your image right from the start. I recommend actually paying attention to what is being expressed by the criticisms.

 

[Adymus]

I don't know if anyone is denying the implications of what Pod'lair has discovered if true, Adymus. I mostly see criticisms of how they are behaving, which you're not really addressing (not that you yourself have to).

If you have as revolutionary a set of ideas as is claimed, then you would want to get your image right from the start. I recommend actually paying attention to what is being expressed by the criticisms.

You know what Artsu?


You're right.
You are 150% spot on.

"If you have as revolutionary a set of ideas as is claimed, then you would want to get your image right from the start."

You are absolutely correct, I agree with that completely.

But that begs the question, what is the right image?

You are assuming the right image is the image that most people in our current society will find appealing, but is that image always the right Image? You have to ask, what exactly are we trying to do? Are we trying to sell tickets to a concert? Are we trying to sell out and mass market this to as many people as possible? Are we trying to make this theory an extension of the current scientific institution?

No. We're not.
We are starting a revolution, we are trying to change the world, and we are trying to correct the vast amount of errors that our current world accepts as their reality.

Now when you take that into consideration, why oh why would we want to assimilate our vision into the flawed community caused of these problems in the first place, why would we want to sell out to a world that is doing it wrong? Why would we settle for making our theory an extension of the monster that created what we are trying to fix? It would completely go against everything we stand for, and it would completely defeat its purpose.

There is a principle in the concept of Nai'xyy shapeshifting (basically a fascinating and curious ability the Nai'xyy have that allow them to shift into different Mah'zutes or codes of conduct that best fit a situation. Its like the Method actor from my "Many faces" thread.)

The most heroic use for this Nai'xyy ability, is to shapeshift into the perfect form, heroically speaking. Often that form is not one that already exists, it is a completely new and invented form, a synthesis of many other forms into something unique, because no other form in existence would be suitable for the path that their Nai is telling them they need to walk.

The form we have taken Artsu is the form that we need to take, to actually be true to our cause, to not be a lie. It is a form that is the most true to the Natural Law of how humans work, and how understanding must be expressed. When you have a good book, you want the Movie to be as true to the book original vision as possible right? But you never get that because there is are Zyy standards to how movies are scheduled at theaters, and appeal to the average impatient human, needing to be 2 hours, or 3 at the very maximum, etc.
Wouldn't movie about a book be a hell of a lot better if it was not restricted to the Zyy protocols, or the tastes of the average person?

What you are seeing, Artsu, is us not being hypocrites. Jung gutted his model so the powers that be would not think he is insane, and immediately dismiss his work. It would have been far more interesting, and true to his own visions and the natural law behind it, if he did not sell out to the will of the idiots.

That is a mistake we are not going to make, we are going to take the form that is truest to the vision, and the natural law behind it. By doing so, we are actually in the long run taking on a form that is the most inclusive for all humans, no matter where their Mojo Configuration places in the Scientific Spirituality Index, no matter what race or gender they are, no matter what sexual orientation they are.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I'm not saying the image isn't right because you're not expressing it how it was before. I of course agree that change for the sake of a new perspective is a good thing. I don't know whether the content of the model thus far has enough sticking power, but I have no problem with it and think it is great progress.

Still though, as many have mentioned, there is a strong feeling of hostility from Pod'lair that I don't really think is helping matters along from any perspective. If you are acting in a way that would make people averse to Pod'lair, you can't be surprised when they become so.

 

[cheese]

Yeah, I love the ideas in pod'lair and nysamis I would love love love to have more in-depth analyses of interviewees (please!)

That said, a lot of the pod'lair posts, especially on the homepage, are just downright hurtful and mean. There, that's a subjective judgment that you can't disprove. It's hurtful and mean and I don't want to hang out with mean people. Pod'lair in the beginning seemed much nicer. (Nysamis, your most recent post was nice too [don't remember the others].) I'm not sure how you plan to revolutionise the world if you're going to drive people away left right and centre. Who's going to want to listen and go through the strenuous training involved? Not enough people to change the world, I bet. The vibe I get from pod'lair these days is cruel, hostile, unfriendly, dictatorial and just plain mean, like I said. Sure, I'd love to learn (I really really would love to) but if it's going to be at the risk of vibing with nastiness and possibly turning into a bastard myself, then I don't think I'm up for joining the group. I'll try to pave my own path/learn from the outside.

And what happened to paving your own path anyway? Why is it being shat upon? What about the people who feel the need to go their own route, to work out and see things in a way that gels best for them? Why is Thomas the only one who gets to have a vision, and everyone else is stupid and he has the right to be mad at the whole world? I'm sure you don't mean it that way, at least consciously, but it comes across like that. Do you expect us to just give up our feelings, our reactions, our value judgments of your behaviour because you think you're right? Aren't you disqualifying the worth of an entire group? This has nothing to do with the veracity of your system. I just don't see how being accurate gives you the right to be a dick (yes, value judgment). That's how I feel anyway.

kibou seems nice though. Also, I understand not everyone in pod'lair is like that (I think/hope). But if the majority of the people at the top are, then that's a warning sign for how things will be conducted and taught, and how people will be treated.

Lots of people are mad at the world. I get mad when people are dicks.

Ok that's enough for now.

*edit
So you have something to gauge with, here's an example of the niceness I would like

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52ocy0oGnX8&feature=related

 

[Puffy]

Yeah, I love the ideas in pod'lair and nysamis I would love love love to have more in-depth analyses of interviewees (please!)

That said, a lot of the pod'lair posts, especially on the homepage, are just downright hurtful and mean. There, that's a subjective judgment that you can't disprove. It's hurtful and mean and I don't want to hang out with mean people. Pod'lair in the beginning seemed much nicer. (Nysamis, your most recent post was nice too [don't remember the others].) I'm not sure how you plan to revolutionise the world if you're going to drive people away left right and centre. Who's going to want to listen and go through the strenuous training involved? Not enough people to change the world, I bet. The vibe I get from pod'lair these days is cruel, hostile, unfriendly, dictatorial and just plain mean, like I said. Sure, I'd love to learn (I really really would love to) but if it's going to be at the risk of vibing with nastiness and possibly turning into a bastard myself, then I don't think I'm up for joining the group. I'll try to pave my own path/learn from the outside.

And what happened to paving your own path anyway? Why is it being shat upon? What about the people who feel the need to go their own route, to work out and see things in a way that gels best for them? Why is Thomas the only one who gets to have a vision, and everyone else is stupid and he has the right to be mad at the whole world? I'm sure you don't mean it that way, at least consciously, but it comes across like that. Do you expect us to just give up our feelings, our reactions, our value judgments of your behaviour because you think you're right? Aren't you disqualifying the worth of an entire group? This has nothing to do with the veracity of your system. I just don't see how being accurate gives you the right to be a dick (yes, value judgment). That's how I feel anyway.

kibou seems nice though. Also, I understand not everyone in pod'lair is like that (I think/hope). But if the majority of the people at the top are, then that's a warning sign for how things will be conducted and taught, and how people will be treated.

Lots of people are mad at the world. I get mad when people are dicks.

Ok that's enough for now.

*edit
So you have something to gauge with, here's an example of the niceness I would like

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52ocy0oGnX8&feature=related

+1 million

Why is it I only see you guys when a pod'lair thread comes up as well? You are allowed to write about things not related to pod'lair, and to, y'know, just generally socialise and be a part of the community?

They all just grow up so fast, then they only come and visit when they want something..

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

One of the greatest effects of the ideas as promoted by this group will likely be as a return Monism, versus the Cartesian notion of Dualism.

How is the achieved? By the powerful idea that the movements of the body correspond to how the self is being perceived by itself within the world. Through this we have an identification of mind and body, with the conscious mind being homomorphic to the dynamic movements of the body, with the unconscious mind being the brain, and the sub-conscious the boundary between these.

Just speculation, but no doubt the philosophical consequences are great.

 

[dark]

To continue that line of thought, it has always annoyed me how people make a difference between the mind and body. To me they are the same thing. There is no separation. I don't believe the mind is in any special realm, I feel from my own personal experience that it is just as much of my body as my hearing, or my feet. They all feel similarly mine. Currently I focus the thought process, or the mind, within the immediate area which my eyes inhabit, but if I close my eyes and listen or feel, it can move around my body as I allow other senses to take more control. Thus, the mind if merely chemical reactions and synapse thingies produced by the nerves within my body, I am the body and mind, there is no separation, at least that is how I feel about it.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

"Before I was enlightened, I thought a mountain was a mountain. As I began on my path I realised that the mountain was actually not a mountain. When I became enlightened, I realised that the mountain really was a mountain after all."

Often we intuitively "know" something to be the case before having done any reflection. Yet, then we start to ask a question about it - how do we know that? And from this, we get a dualism between the apparent world, and the world of thought. Ultimately the goal of this process is to reconcile the thought thus created with the phenomena first observed.

First, we see people for people, we are affected by their cues in the way as intended, but have not yet raised these cues to the level of thought,
Second, we begin to consider people in the abstract - the 'personality' becomes distinct from the 'person', naive monism is surpassed
Third, our understanding of the personality becomes synonymous with the person - thought and phenomena become one, dualism is surpassed, enlightened monism results

Note though, that while each step looks, in retrospect, to have been a mistake, we forget that it was necessary to reach the point we are at now. Thought must be abstracted before it is made actual.

 

[dark]

I apologize if my video has bad sound quality, I reviewed it myself and it doesn't seem to pick up sound good unless I am a lot louder than I was.

 

[BigApplePi]

Interesting thread. (My home power is out due to hurricane Irene so I'm writing this from a library ... no sound playing is allowed.) I am just skimming so aside from Pod'lair (which I find quite promising though I don't understand it), is the controversy on this board.

Some simple questions:

What is the objection to Pod'lair?

1. Questionable leadership?
2. Learning a new language?
3. A restrictive membership requirement?
4. A membership requirement?
5. It isn't accurate or reliable?
6. It makes false claims?
7. All of the above?
8. None of the above?
9. Some of the above?
10. Neither 7 nor 8 nor 9, lol?

 

[Adymus]

Yeah, I love the ideas in pod'lair and nysamis I would love love love to have more in-depth analyses of interviewees (please!)

That said, a lot of the pod'lair posts, especially on the homepage, are just downright hurtful and mean. There, that's a subjective judgment that you can't disprove. It's hurtful and mean and I don't want to hang out with mean people.

Yes, it is mean. But it is also true, and the blunt truth is not often a friendly truth, that is just the way it goes.

(You don't have to point out that your positions Values-Based, I won't dismiss them on that pretense alone, that would be an extremely lame thing to do.)

The truth is, you are already being mean, and you are already hanging out with mean people. We are trying to provide you with an opportunity to get insights, knowledge, and abilities that you do not already have, all we ask is that you be respectful student.

And then you are returning that with, "No, I think all that other stuff that you are saying is important, is stupid, I just want the people reading thing."

Dispite the fact that, you wouldn't know if it is stupid or not, because you don't know it yet. This is completely disrespectful behavior to do to a person that actually wants to help you, that actually wants to invest their energy into providing you with an opportunity.

Pod'lair in the beginning seemed much nicer. (Nysamis, your most recent post was nice too [don't remember the others].) I'm not sure how you plan to revolutionise the world if you're going to drive people away left right and centre. Who's going to want to listen and go through the strenuous training involved? Not enough people to change the world, I bet. The vibe I get from pod'lair these days is cruel, hostile, unfriendly, dictatorial and just plain mean, like I said. Sure, I'd love to learn (I really really would love to) but if it's going to be at the risk of vibing with nastiness and possibly turning into a bastard myself, then I don't think I'm up for joining the group. I'll try to pave my own path/learn from the outside.

That's right, so what happened back then?

You are saying you are having pause now because you don't like how blunt we are being, but if that is the truth then what gave you pause back then?

You are championing kindness, but where was yours? Where was anyone's kindness on this forum? I gave this forum so much Cheese, so much of my time, so much of my energy, so much of my insights, and like Puffy said, I got recognition for it. Then when the time came to actually show what Pod'Lair is all about, all I saw was hostility, cruelty, intolerance, and closed-mindedness. Why weren't you taking a stand against that? Why weren't you saying "Yeah it looks a little weird, but this guy has demonstrating that he's got something, so maybe we should reserve judgement and see what it is?"

We weren't being mean, we were not saying anyone is ignorant, we were just presenting our work.
But no, you were perfectly complacent with the nastiness that was being thrown our way, and you still are. You are not a Bastard Cheese, but you clearly don't mind being on forums with other people that are.

And what happened to paving your own path anyway? Why is it being shat upon? What about the people who feel the need to go their own route, to work out and see things in a way that gels best for them? Why is Thomas the only one who gets to have a vision, and everyone else is stupid and he has the right to be mad at the whole world? I'm sure you don't mean it that way, at least consciously, but it comes across like that.

Thomas is not the only one with a vision, but he is the only one with this vision. Obviously one can never truly be 100% independent minded, there will always be something that someone else can do that you cannot do, or something that someone else can do better than you. If you want to learn that something, you will have to become their student and allow them to teach it to you.

You will have to show your mentor respect, because if you don't then they won't want to teach you, as you are not a good student.

When your Mentor tells you that they need to teach you something in order for you to understand something else, then it is disrespectful to say, "No, fuck you, I don't care what you have to say about this, I just want that other thing."
If you are not willing to learn the whole thing, then you get none of it, because the components are not complete without the whole.

Being a good student means not acting like you already know what you what you are there to learn in the first place. If Pai Mei is trying to teach you to do the Five Point Palm exploding heart technique, you better listen to what he tell you that you are supposed to do in order to learn, no matter how weird it is. You know why? Because he can do the Five Point Palm exploding heart technique, and you can't... and because he'll snatch your eye out if you give him lip.

If you go through a full cycle of training, and you still can't do the trick the mentor was trying to teach you, THEN you can point the finger and tell them that they are full of shit. But when you don't know how to do something, then you have no idea how you are supposed to go about learning it, and if you care to learn at all, then you will be willing to do what that it takes.

If you want to walk your own path, that is fine, it is entirely up to you, and you don't have to be someone's student forever, but you do have to be their student for the amount of time it takes for you to learn something. If you want to aquire a skill that you don't already have, you must be comfortable with the Student-Mentor relationship, otherwise you will just be ignorant and stubborn for the rest of your life. You are a Mojo among many other Mojos that are spec'ed to to do many things that you are not as specialized to do, with that said, it would be a complete and utter fallacy to believe that you are supposed to only be your own mentor all of the time, or to believe that you are always supposed to lead and never follow.

You are used to MBTI's "All you need to know is a few basic principles that you can read in a book, and you are a certified practitioner" approach.
But all skills that require you to actually do something real, or produce something with the human apparatus, like being a musician or a martial artist, or other kinds of shit crazy monks in monasteries do, requires far more than theoretical understanding, it requires tacit, artistic, and spiritual understanding.
That, requires training and mentorship, and if you are not willing to do that, then you don't get to have the skill, no soup for you.

Do you expect us to just give up our feelings, our reactions, our value judgments of your behavior because you think you're right? Aren't you disqualifying the worth of an entire group? This has nothing to do with the veracity of your system. I just don't see how being accurate gives you the right to be a dick (yes, value judgment). That's how I feel anyway.

Yeah, we kind of do. We are not being hateful, or prejudice of any kinds of people, we are not being cruel for its own sake, or to poke fun, we are just being blunt, really really really blunt. That's all.

Because if we are right, then what we are doing as a human collective is stupid in a multitude of ways, it means there is a massive hole in the ways our world should be working, and there is nothing anyone is doing to fix it.

It is the kind of thing you should be pissed off about, and we already are.

Your feelings will not change this reality, it is already here, so yes Cheese, we do expect you to let go of the initial pain of being told that how we are going about things is ass backward, because if you are unwilling to let go of it, then everyone will continue suffering more than they need to because you are unwilling to tolerate the pain of pulling the thorn out of your paw.

kibou seems nice though. Also, I understand not everyone in pod'lair is like that (I think/hope). But if the majority of the people at the top are, then that's a warning sign for how things will be conducted and taught, and how people will be treated.

Lots of people are mad at the world. I get mad when people are dicks.

Ok that's enough for now.

We are not mean people, we seek to increase energy between people, which is an innately happy thing. Obviously people that want to train you in how to be a better you can't be all that bad. But we do have feelings, and like most humans with feelings we do not respond well to hostility being thrown at us when we are trying to help.

We won't have that front page up much longer, we have a better one coming, and there is truth to what you are saying Cheese, we don't necessarily want to approach every single person by telling them that they are being stupid, especially if they are cool and willing to listen.

I don't like being blunt to the point of hurting feelings (I also don't like having to dispel bullshit about being a cultist that is trying to steal your soul via video,) but sometimes it is necessary to get the point across, especially when a person laughs at your kind approach.

 

[Cavallier]

This so often devolves into some sort of religious war. I could have easily been interested if if weren't for how rabid each side is.

I'm going hippy here and peacing out.

 

[cheese]

Um Adymus, I defended pod'lair at least once on the forum. I was pissed off with the responses as well. I thought they were cruel and unfair. I defended pod'lair both on the forum and off.

I stay because there are still a percentage of things I find worthwhile here. The forum is not dedicated to topics that induce idiocy. Pod'lair is dedicated to pod'lair though, and it is taught by people I find unpleasant, at least in what I've seen. So I'm guessing the percentage of nastiness is higher, and hence, less worth my time. I don't spend much time here anymore anyway.

I didn't say everything else is stupid, I have NO IDEA what you mean by that. I've looked through the site and I like almost all the ideas I see. Not just people reading. I just do not like the vibe and the attitude.

I didn't say anyone is full of shit, nor am I trying to say that Thomas is full of shit. I am, however, saying that my feelings are hurt, that the attitude and stance are hurtful, and that from an emotional viewpoint they don't make sense, and extrapolating from that, that from a practical standpoint, they don't make sense.

You're presenting the standard "don't judge till you've tried it yourself" argument but I'm not arguing against that, I am completely for that and have always thought people were arguing from ignorance. (I've mentioned this as well, to other people - in defense of pod'lair.)

I'm not acting like I already know what I'm about to learn. I think you're off the mark here.... god there are so many statements that just do not apply to what I think. I always want to lead? I'm never willing to be a student? Why am I asking for more material then, and to be taught more? I think there are better, kinder ways of revealing truth than the emotional brutality you present. You're assuming that's the only way to do it; I disagree and think it's wrong. You're not showing me how to get the thorn out of my paw, you're ripping it out and slicing through the entire thing in the process, causing an infection that eventually kills me! Or....something.

Anyway, I know that people eventually react with hostility when they've been given it enough, I understand that, but it doesn't mean it's right, and it's certainly not right to take a sledgehammer approach to everyone because you assume the worst from the outset - that's basic stereotyping, and it's cruel.

I'm glad the page is going to change a little.

You *do* expect us to ignore our value judgments? I understand that in the context of putting aside emotion to examine the truth of what is being said, but that doesn't preclude the presentation from being subject to valid judgment (and by extension, possibly wrong). Would you tell a Xai'nyy to ignore the ugliness that resounds in them when faced with your attitude and rhetoric - just because your content is technically accurate? That deep feeling of wrongness, disgust, pain, woundedness that they cannot put aside, that ignoring would constitute a betrayal of self? Wut.

Even if you would because it's somehow legit in your system, I still think it's wrong. As much as you think it's right. So we're at an impasse, maybe.

It's not just a personal offence either, I think that's what's not understood, perhaps. It's not an ego wound, or at least not solely that. It really does come across ugly to me, and I am empathetically angry on behalf of anyone that is faced with it. (Disgusting as that sentence sounds.)

Anyway, I'm not writing it off. I'm just hoping to see some changes before I submit myself to being yoked.

 

[Minuend]

You are championing kindness, but where was yours? Where was anyone's kindness on this forum? I gave this forum so much Cheese, so much of my time, so much of my energy, so much of my insights, and like Puffy said, I got recognition for it. Then when the time came to actually show what Pod'Lair is all about, all I saw was hostility, cruelty, intolerance, and closed-mindedness. Why weren't you taking a stand against that? Why weren't you saying "Yeah it looks a little weird, but this guy has demonstrating that he's got something, so maybe we should reserve judgement and see what it is?"

Hostility, you say. The way I see, in the beginning it was very interesting to hear what you said, but there wasn't anywhere others could get more information, and thus they didn't really ask many questions about it. When the site came up, many reacted to the arrogant behaviour both from there and from others behind it. They become more sceptical. They asked you critical questions, which you started to take personal. At the very least, you defended yourself very aggressively. This inspired more scepticism and hostility. But the real sparrows were very few. I also think you applied ill intentions where there were only curiosity. This hasn't seemed to change.

Yes, you did contribute a lot to the forum, and I among others appreciate that. But all I see now is that you still bear a grudge and I don't see how we can bridge the gap if none treat each other with respect. I don't think you understand how powerful a tool respectfulness is. You would have found far more people defending you if you behaved maturely. No knowledge can be seeded from this.

Even Cheese is accused, even though we can all tell he has never been progressively aggressive, arrogant or dismissive. He has been almost annoyingly perfectly open-minded in any debate.

Okay, I just visited the page too, wow.

Emergency / Why Are We Calling People Stupid?

Spoiler

Mass ignorance is reaching epic proportions. People are ignorant. You are likely ignorant. Does that hurt your feelings? Ignorance hurts your fellow humans. If you are a hero, that shouldn’t be news to you, but it should alarm you. We are at war on ignorance and you should be too. The basic definition of ignorance is not knowing something you should know. You were designed and built to do three things that you don’t know how to do:

First Stupid: Most likely you didn’t read yourself right,
Second Stupid: Most likely you didn’t read the people in your life right,
Third Stupid: You don’t even know what that means if you got that right, which you didn’t.

Many people claim to be self aware. Are you aware that you’re stupid? What we have to offer is to “de-stupid” you and de-stupid models out there that are doing Rituals Of Stupid on smart people and contributing to stupidity on a mass scale.

Pod'Lair has now officially lost all respect from me. I was willing to give it a second chance, but seriously? Someone should take a course in marketing and, you know, being grown ups. Really, you don't find anything wrong with that approach?