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Birth Order

MissQuote

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What is your birth order in the family?

do you think there is any correlation between birth order and personality? (not necessarily typology personality stuff)

I am the first born, of a first born of a first born of a first born.

Not only the oldest child, but the oldest (first) grandchild. The default spokesperson, so to speak, of my generation of my family.

My sister is seventeen months younger than I, and my (deceased in recent years) brother was nine years younger than myself.

I think this firstborness is something that has promoted my being able to take firm and sudden confident charge of situations involving the need for authority, especially when it comes to dealing with the situations people I care for manage to need help with, despite my INTPish disinclination to do so most of the time.




Suddenly interested in this, so, data gathering.
 

MissQuote

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(it was anothers comment in another thread that prompted me to start thinking about this, I hope I didn't step on any toes by making this topic after reading that comment)
 

Dapper Dan

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First of two here. Pretty sure it's had very little effect on me.
 

psion

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First of two. I also never had any family that was my age, all of my cousins are at least 15 years older than I am. One would think that there might be some kind of confidence boosting effect from being the center of attention during infancy.
 
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Same here, I was first born out of five. I think it's aided towards my being untrusting of people seeing as with siblings you're always having to watch your back. Another thing is though that all my siblings are around the same age mark, and that's at least five years younger than me. Usually they'll play together in pairs and I'll be alone in a corner reading or something. I think being first born definitely puts a more independent and quisitive head on someone though. I also think first borns find it harder to fit in than others, even if they do understand social norms.
 

Mia

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I'm the only born. Selected number two.
 

Melkor

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Second of eight.

0-0
 

miggslives

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middle child of three. but i believe i was influenced to end up this way because my sister is four years older, and all my cousins are five, six, and seven years older. Then my little brother is seven years younger, and all my younger cousins are eight, nine, and ten years younger than me. So growing up I am smack dab in the middle and all alone in the age gap lol.
 

RockinLollipop

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It's.... complicated. Technically speaking, I'm the youngest of 3. My half sister is the oldest, but I hardly remember her ever being around because she is more than 10 years older than me, and she was already off at college when I was just a toddler. That left me with my older brother, but then my parents got a divorce when I was 5, I went with my mom and my brother stayed with my dad, so I was raised as an only child from then on, with the occasional visits to my dad and brother.

In short, youngest of 3/ youngest of 2/ only child.
 

Cognisant

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The one and only, the last of my line.

Born very premature, emergency C-section, I damn near suffocated because my lungs hadn't really formed yet and then I started starving to death, turned out I had a tumour wrapped around the base of my oesophagus, I went into surgery well before I was even supposed to be born.

A half formed purple thing was cut from my mother, then I was born from an incubator, fresh stitches in my torso, breathing with lungs forced from steroids and growth hormones, I like to think my existence is an affront to the natural order :D
 

lungs

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first of two, basically.

i have five older brothers and sisters from my dad's previous marriages but didn't grow up with them.

i remember seeing how birth order psychology vaguely made a sort of sense years ago when i looked into it a bit, but not enough to really blow me away or maintain my interest in it.
 
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I think this firstborness is something that has promoted my being able to take firm and sudden confident charge of situations involving the need for authority, especially when it comes to dealing with the situations people I care for manage to need help with, despite my INTPish disinclination to do so most of the time.

There is a correlation between birth order and personality, but likely several mechanisms and different variables that result in a cluster of outcomes as opposed to just one (parenting experience, time spent interacting with other relatives, stress levels, economic influences, etc).

I personally think this is due to maturity in the midst of past stress that may be the result of being first born.

I'm the first born of a first born (1/3) who's father was functionally an only child (1 sibling died before and another died after his birth. 3 cheers for Prontosil).

Oldest child, first grandchild on both sides. Sister is 5 years younger, brother 15 years younger.

Father was 2/4, after a brother and followed by 2 sisters. His mother was 3/6, father unknown (born in Italy). Mom's side grandmother was 8/8, preceeded by 4 brothers and 3 sisters.

Both sides of my family have their own traits and eccentricities I can easily identify in myself. All are introverts except my mom (ESFJ).

The above is what I can write quickly for now, although I'm aware of enough info to create a geneology including MBTI and types specific individuals chose to interact with (i.e. my great grandmother was totally into an INTP to the point where she moved in with him when she was 73 after having 8 kids with 2 previous husbands).
 

MissQuote

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Everyone's responses seem sort of isolatedy-ish, in varying ways.

I also have a gaggle of half brothers and sisters I have never met, some older than me and some younger. All by my dad who went around making babies by lots of different women, then moving on. I only have knowledge of them, have never met any, so they are irrelevant to the question at hand.
 

Fukyo

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Single child but grew up with a cousin.

It's the best of two words. Friendship and a playmate without having to share my parents' material and emotional resources. :D
 

Cheeseumpuffs

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Second of two. Brother is four years older than me and does not live with me. I definitely feel like my parents started giving him privileges sooner than I have been receiving them (Finally getting rid of an instituted bedtime, etc.) which is annoying and I generally feel like, compared to my brother, my parents are constantly treating me like some sort of child.

Other than making me disgruntled with my parents, I don't believe my positioning on the family tree has affected me in any substantial way.

As to parents, my father is 2nd/3rd (He has(had) a twin sister) of 3 and my mother is 2nd of 4.
 

DetachedRetina

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What is your birth order in the family?


I am the first born, of a first born of a first born of a first born.

Not only the oldest child, but the oldest (first) grandchild. The default spokesperson, so to speak, of my generation of my family.

It's funny. I'm the youngest child of two youngest children, and I'm the youngest cousin of all of my cousins (which makes sense because my father and mother are the youngest siblings in their families.)

If being the oldest gives you decisive and spokesperson abilities, what do you think being the youngest gives you?

Nothing of value it seems...

I have always thought that the oldest child tends to receive more praise upon passing of milestones (first steps, first words, etc.) They also tend to receive more scolding upon messing up and being bad. Parents seem to me to be more astounded by everything the older child does. If they do something good parents feel overwhelming pride and think their firstborn is the best thing in the world, but if they do something bad parents are fraught with anxiety and are afraid they have produced a little monster.

Younger children seem to underwhelm parents. First steps are nothing new, first words are nothing new, but first mistakes and misbehaviors are also nothing new.

How do you think this difference affects the way children develop if at all? Do you think that this difference in treatment is even a real thing or just imagined by me?

I think being a youngest of youngest has had little effect on me, or perhaps made me a little skeptical of authority figures who say they know what they're talking about.
 

Meer

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Youngest of three. Prodigal son.

I'm not very involved with my extended family, but I'm a year older than my father's siblings' oldest grandchild.

I think being the youngest has exaggerated my cautiousness and timidity.
 

MissQuote

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The first born signifies a momentous passage for a person, for most people, the passage that created their parenthood and opened their eyes and heart to emotions they could never comprehend before the birth of that human, no matter how well they thought they could.

I do not think that the bond is necessarily greater than with children born after, or that first borns are favored, so much as I imagine there is a certain sort of connection in the mental pathways to attaching those first felt emotions in a unique way with the first child. As well, every step of the way is an entering into the nearly unknown with the first born. The parent, under normal circumstances, has never been here before.

Before the second child is born it is hard, nearly impossible, to comprehend that one could ever have thoughts and feelings as strong as they do for the already existing child for anyone else ever. Almost a fear in some ways, that one will be unable to love like this again. Then that second child comes and the impossible becomes possible with ease as a second nature (again, under normal circumstances, I mean). The aware parent is able to see that this a completely different person, while the well-meaning but less aware parent that at times is overlooked, but in either case it is only a sliding scale of newness and no longer the unknown- the scale that measures how unknown the experience of this new human is based on how aware the parent strives to be that it is a separate person who will live a separate life and have separate behaviors and desires and nuances than the first, but still no matter what end of this scale of awareness the parent lands on it is still charting at least somewhat know territory.

With each successive birth after this the territory of parenthood becomes more and more well known, the parent likely will have no or little fear (for example) as to whether they will love their third or fourth or fifth et cetera child as deeply, they now know, taught by their second child, that they are capable of this inconceivable amount of love and devotion (in fact that is a unique lesson and experience betrothed upon them by the second-now knowing they have enough love and will not run out-, a gift second children may not be aware of having given that is unique as the gift of the unknown the first gave them) as well as a general loosening of the grip and a gaining of frazzledness that children after the second bring/give. The younger children bring with them delight in a different manor than that of rejoicing the accomplishments of the first, and too a lessoning of the lamentations of the failures. Younger children bring freedom, in a way, by default, the parent is too worn out but also more wise and can be and let their child be to a much greater extent.

As far as effect on the child goes, I believe first borns tend to feel a greater burden of responsibility, and my observations have led me to think that middle borns tend to feel more lost in the fray and overlooked, while youngest children I believe do enjoy a greater sense of freedom. All of these traits can play out into different levels of neurosis too. Sense of responsibility can become need to control, feeling overlooked can become chronic self-esteem issues and sense of freedom can become a lack of control. Of course I am not saying anything too profound here, and this is just surface skimming of the A typical model without considering any other factors affecting the dynamics.

When I wrote that I was the “default spokesperson” I was actually thinking of a specific memory- my grandpa’s memorial- when I felt compelled to stand and speak on behalf of my brother and sister and cousins, in front of hundreds of people and shaking, simply because it seemed my duty to spare the others and represent this population of the family that called him “grandpa”. There have been other times with my siblings when I simply had to take charge of their problems because they were in need and unable, where as my sister offers support and help but never takes control of any of my problems no matter how out of it I am (my brother I won’t ever know what his reactions would have been).


In my own family (the one I am a parent in) there is an interesting dynamic I noticed- we have four, but two "youngests" instead of two "middle" children. The first three are boys and the youngest is a girl. So our daughter behave like a youngest child, but so does our youngest son, as he is in fact the youngest of his "group". Only our second behaves in typical "middle child" ways and the oldest is the oldest, of course.

I don't know. These were my thoughts to those questions.
 

Architect

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There are some effects of birth order on personality and outlook, from what I've observed. They're not major however, it plays more into attitude.
 

BigApplePi

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I went through a period of great interest in the birth order thing, starting when I read an article in "This Week" magazine on birth order. That was when I was 17-19. I kept the article. I hope to be back with more on this when I get time.

I'm sure the thing affects temperament, but that's just my intuition. One COULD do a little science on the thing by seeing how each of the 16 temperaments match up. Wonder if that's ever been done?
 

dokuro

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First born of two children, both my parents also the eldest.
The fact that I'm super close to my younger brother really reinforces the thought that I don't really need other friends. We both have admitted to each other that we are each others' best friends. However I think because my parents work and still work a lot, and I had to take care of everybody, my Fe function is more developed than the usual INTP. I didn't like burdening my parents, and because I was so independent from a young age I never did burden them, and I gradually took on more and more responsibilities as the the eldest and the only daughter. I'm still not empathetic, but I'm definitely good at taking care of people, reading them well enough to tell them what they want to hear and taking charge when need be. Maybe this isn't the reason and I've just been typed wrong, but so far that's the conclusion I've come to.
 

DetachedRetina

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I'm quite excited to eventually raise kids. It seems like a massive learning experience, though maybe my selfish intentions here are indicative of my current immaturity and inability to properly raise kids.
 

MissQuote

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Hey, nobody is qualified and none of us know what we are doing, just doing the best with the qualifications we have to figure out as well as possible what is going on.

First born of two children, both my parents also the eldest.
The fact that I'm super close to my younger brother really reinforces the thought that I don't really need other friends. We both have admitted to each other that we are each others' best friends. However I think because my parents work and still work a lot, and I had to take care of everybody, my Fe function is more developed than the usual INTP. I didn't like burdening my parents, and because I was so independent from a young age I never did burden them, and I gradually took on more and more responsibilities as the the eldest and the only daughter. I'm still not empathetic, but I'm definitely good at taking care of people, reading them well enough to tell them what they want to hear and taking charge when need be. Maybe this isn't the reason and I've just been typed wrong, but so far that's the conclusion I've come to.

This sounds very similar to me and my sister. Particularly the bold parts.
 

masterpeez

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First of four. Hmm, looks like a trend. That means correlation obviously...

All firstborn children are INTPs. :elephant:
 

RockinLollipop

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First of four. Hmm, looks like a trend. That means correlation obviously...

All firstborn children are INTPs. :elephant:

Of course! It makes PERFECT SENSE! All firstborns are INTP, and all INTP are firstborn, meaning I must not actually be an INTP, and my older sister is only PRETENDING to be an extrovert! No need for any further discussion, then. Everyone is dismissed!
 

Beholder

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I'm second of four. Although I'm pretty sure my older brother is also INTP (he says so). For a long time I was sure he was an INTJ, because he's so different from me - responsible, takes charge, does stuff. When I talked to him I said he couldn't be an INTP because we never actually do anything, to which he replied that all the things he's achieved were despite his laziness.
So I definitely think that birth order has had a huge impact on both of our personalities.

Something I find interesting, is that it kind of seems like I've gotten the "better" set of genes from the two of us, (I really do hate to say this, and I've never said it to anyone before, but I say it from a purely objective standpoint, only for the sake of this idea I'm investigating) we're both very smart and have very athletic builds, but I think that I'm smarter than him (read: I think that on an IQ test I would score higher than him, and he's never really been the type to discuss ideas with (at least not with me)) and I'm pretty sure that physically I'm naturally more fit than him, but despite all of that he has always been wildly successful at everything in life, while I literally can't think of a single goal I have set myself and even come close to achieving.
I think this difference can be attributed, among other things to what DetachedRetina said:
I have always thought that the oldest child tends to receive more praise upon passing of milestones (first steps, first words, etc.) They also tend to receive more scolding upon messing up and being bad. Parents seem to me to be more astounded by everything the older child does. If they do something good parents feel overwhelming pride and think their firstborn is the best thing in the world, but if they do something bad parents are fraught with anxiety and are afraid they have produced a little monster.
But I also think that I'm just much more involved in my own thoughts to care about anything external.

I also think that my youngest sister has had much more freedom growing up than the rest of us.
 

EyeSeeCold

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Second of two(mother), and second of three(father). I guess that's a double whammy :confused:.
I didn't grow up with the latter group though.
 

Ruvr

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Firstborn of four in the family, first grandchild of 14 in the extended maternal family, the 41th grandchild of 46 in the extended paternal family. Father was the last child of 7, mother was the third child of 4. My mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, great-great-grandmother...back about 5 generations more...all had four children each.
 

BigApplePi

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Birth Order Theory, Yours Truly

Not just birth order but sibling sex. Here's my nutshell impression. Whatever you started out with measures how easily you get along later in life ... like the 16 temperament thing. I'm the oldest of a younger sister by 4.5 years. So I have a natural feel for younger (read submissive) females, not dominant. I will be a compatriot of oldest females but there will be a dominance issue.

Younger children know how to get along with olders. By chance from age four through eleven I had a close boyfriend who was dominant. I learned from him. So later I grew up accepting any dominant males but not females. My mom and dad were youngers. Therefore they provided very poor role models for me. Too bad, but knowing this it's a clue as to how to adjust today and my failure to adjust yesterday.

Check out if that's consistent with YOUR experience. Do you get along with those dominance-wise and sex-wise corresponding to how you grew up? Not to forget the variances as a four year difference brings into play things not as prominent as a one year difference. An only child is both an oldest and a youngest. That makes them less predictable except they will identify more with parental responsibility ... however that went. A sibling who died or was not present during your early years voids any generalized development theory connected with them.

A youngest child tends to seek attention but avoid responsibility, if only because that's what was required growing up. A middle child (as I could describe myself from above) is both an adjuster and in conflict about where to stand. I have little or no theory as to how these placements match up with the 16 temperaments. That's asking for too much of a reading.
 

MichiganJFrog

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Everyone's responses seem sort of isolatedy-ish, in varying ways.

Good observation. I have twin sisters who are seven years older than me, so we're separated by age and gender. Plus they moved halfway across the country when I was about 12, so I went from being the youngest child to being kind of a de facto only child. It was kind of like coming late to the party and then hanging out with the hosts after everyone else had gone home.

A youngest child tends to seek attention but avoid responsibility, if only because that's what was required growing up.

Yeah, taking responsibility is a way of stating your identity, and I got the sense that if I did that, no matter what identity I asserted, I'd be muscling in on someone else's territory. Better to just play the clown and not commit to anything.

While modern personality theory is largely Jung's contribution to psychology, I think it was Alfred Adler who got the birth order ball rolling. And like typology, there are people who think it's nonsense, but I see this dynamic in families even more clearly than I see the 16 types.
 

BigApplePi

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Good observation. I have twin sisters who are seven years older than me, so we're separated by age and gender. Plus they moved halfway across the country when I was about 12, so I went from being the youngest child to being kind of a de facto only child. It was kind of like coming late to the party and then hanging out with the hosts after everyone else had gone home.



Yeah, taking responsibility is a way of stating your identity, and I got the sense that if I did that, no matter what identity I asserted, I'd be muscling in on someone else's territory. Better to just play the clown and not commit to anything.

While modern personality theory is largely Jung's contribution to psychology, I think it was Alfred Adler who got the birth order ball rolling. And like typology, there are people who think it's nonsense, but I see this dynamic in families even more clearly than I see the 16 types.
I vaguely recall Alfred Adler was interested in power relations. If one cares or is cared for by a sibling or clobbers or is clobbered by a sibling, one is not likely to forget it. Even if your sisters hung around, seven years is enough to form you as an only child ... or so I read once. I suppose the reason is a seven years difference is enough to eliminate rivalry and the relationship is closer to a parent than a sibling. A three year difference, on the other hand, would have a sibling in a more intimate relationship so that would count more in peer closeness ... whatever that means.
 

MichiganJFrog

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I suppose the reason is a seven years difference is enough to eliminate rivalry and the relationship is closer to a parent than a sibling.

Definitely a parental vibe. As a result, I cower before authority while simultaneously mocking it.

As for rivalry, it's like, "Don't even go there."
 

Procrastinating

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I am 3/4. Twin older sisters, four years older and a younger brother by ten years. This has had no effect on me as I was adopted out of this family when I was three months old. In my family, I am an only child. When I was five, my mum was diagnosed with a hereditary degenative disease which supposedly has similar effects as ms. She died when I was 15. My cousins on my mum's side I rarely see as they are all mainly in their early to mid twenties and I'm 18 and my dad's side I'm weirdly in the middle, the next oldest being five years older and the next youngest being eleven months younger. However, they are all ridiculously extroverted and feeling and, as i'm an intp, we have no bases for connecting. They have no understanding of who I am at all. If I didn't have fantastic friends, others of a more introverted disposition, I'd probably be completely alone.
 

MissQuote

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I vaguely recall Alfred Adler was interested in power relations. If one cares or is cared for by a sibling or clobbers or is clobbered by a sibling, one is not likely to forget it. Even if your sisters hung around, seven years is enough to form you as an only child ... or so I read once. I suppose the reason is a seven years difference is enough to eliminate rivalry and the relationship is closer to a parent than a sibling. A three year difference, on the other hand, would have a sibling in a more intimate relationship so that would count more in peer closeness ... whatever that means.


This was definitely the situation between me and my sister and our brother. My sister and I are less than a year and a half apart and he was nine years younger than me, eight years younger than her. When he passed away it was as though we, my sister and I, lost a child more than it was like losing a sibling. This is something we have spoken about with each other many times, even discussing the difference in how it would have felt to the other if one of us had passed instead of him- the grief would have been completely different.
 

Wasp

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I am the eldest of three (the middle child is adopted). I am also the first grandchild on both sides of the family and the oldest among my cousins. If firstborns get the royal treatment I sure as hell didn't get it.
 

ctenn

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I'm the middle child, about 1.5 years younger than my brother and 5 years older than my sister--still im only 16 however. I think its one of the reasons im so introverted is because I never got (and frankly never wanted) the attention. Like many of you have said, the oldest child seems to have an ability to be firm decisive and strong in arguments; often being the target of this strength, I learned to develop an argumentative power of my own. That as well as being on a speech team where I was forced to come up with impromptu speeches made me a better arguer, a common INTP trait. Interestingly, I think being the middle child is what made me an INTP, silent and reserved yet extremely observant and analytical; I normally saw ways I would want to handle things differently but never felt it worth acting upon because it wasn't my place.
 

Hadoblado

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I am the youngest of two. My older sister moved out when I was eleven years old however, making me effectively an only child form that point on.
 

Ink

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I am the oldest of three brothers, oldest of my generation as well, my family is all ISPs, father is ISFP so I pretty much took charge of the house once I hit puberty. I think it has made me really bad at handling authourity, something I'm working really hard at right now. And it's not that I have a huge ego or anything like that, I'm just not used to have to talk to people from a submissive position. Anyone relate to this issue?
 

LcDel

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Massachusetts
I'm the first of two, with an eight year difference. My parents are divorced and my father is terrible at handling kids (sister is eight) so being with him and my sister has taught me a lot about stepping up when the current authority is inadequate. Thankfully the take-charge when needed attitude I've gained has helped me get out of my introverted INTP shell. On occasion, anyway.
 

Frutti

Redshirt
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Today 2:51 PM
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
2
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First of three. It would be interesting with statistics on this.
 
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