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Coolydudey

You could say that.
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Today I got forced, for the millionth time, to make my bed... Furthermore, I had to endure a lecture along the lines of:"cleanliness and organisation is something you have to get into your head"... saying nobody is going to see my bed anyway is just dismissed.
Did any of you guys have similar problems with J parents/guardians/people around you?
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
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Today I got forced, for the millionth time, to make my bed... Furthermore, I had to endure a lecture along the lines of:"cleanliness and organisation is something you have to get into your head"... saying nobody is going to see my bed anyway is just dismissed.
Did any of you guys have similar problems with J parents/guardians/people around you?

Move out of your parent's place.
 

electra

Redshirt
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J parents:
Revise more!
Work harder!
It's all about the work ethic!
Do everything exactly my way!

sigh
 

MissQuote

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Did you show them the stuff about bedbugs or mites or whatever that was and not making the bed?

Seriously though, while it is very annoying to be nagged about pointless chores, this is really kind of whiny and very first worldy problemish of you.
 

Words

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Seriously though, while it is very annoying to be nagged about pointless chores, this is really kind of whiny and very first worldy problemish of you.

What!? This is a matter of rational thinking. His parents provided no rational basis on why he has to do this particular activity on a regular basis. It's stupid tradition, and complaint is only reasonable, if not the only reaction favorable to the value of reason. 1st world or what has nothing to do with this. (Course, this just my hubristic interpretation of the motivations involved.)
 

MissQuote

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What!? This is a matter of rational thinking. His parents provided no rational basis on why he has to do this particular activity on a regular basis. It's stupid tradition, and complaint is only reasonable, if not the only reaction favorable to the value of reason. 1st world or what has nothing to do with this. (Course, this just my hubristic interpretation of the motivations involved.)

If being nagged to make ones bed is a big enough problem in ones life to bitch about it publicly, then yeah, I am guessing it qualify's as a genuine First World Problem.

The rational basis is that s/he needs to learn cleanliness and orderliness in order to be more effective and or successful in ones endeavors in life, as well as an undertone of learning to be respectful towards others. Whether or not these things are valid completely can be disputed, whether there is a reasonable rationale behind them- not as easily disputed.

The parents have put hard work into making a home and they would like that home to be respected and seen as beautiful, asking one to make their bed and keep things tidy is not unreasonable at all when they are being given a home. If the OP is an adult who pulls their own fair share of the weight, including paying their own way, then shutting their door should be sufficient and the parents are being obnoxious, rude and meddling, otherwise they should just make the damn bed and save the conflicts for bigger fish.

I rarely make my bed, but I am a grownup who moved out more than 14 years ago, it is my prerogative as it is my home that I have made for myself and my family . I will say that the times I do get all obsessed with keeping my bed made it really does help with keeping the rest of things looking nice as well, just seeing the bed looking pretty and neat makes me want to make other things around it pretty and neat.

Now if the bed making nagging is just one example of an oppressive amount of nagging about ones environment then that is understandable to be annoyed by too. If the OP is living in a situation where there is no freedom to ever make a mess at all while enjoying life that could be very detrimental to anyone's mental state and I could understand where the complaint is coming from. And J types can indeed be very pushy with an attitude that they are correct until proven otherwise regardless of any evidence supporting their opinion. My husband can get like that and it can become exhausting, he certainly knows how to nag well, he doesn't see it as nagging though, he sees it as stating what he knows and what he expects based on what he already knows, sometimes he needs reminded that life is much better when it is fluid and fun rather than work work work. What is the point of making everything nice if there is no time to enjoy how nice it all is because one is constantly striving to make it nice.
 

MissQuote

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If mom or dad is washing the bedding there is one more reason to make the bed look nice. Mom or dad put work into providing clean bedding, the least that can be done to show appreciation is making the clean bedding they provided look nice to show them their effort had tangible results.
 

Cognisant

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Classic teenager.

Making the bed isn't that hard, it's hardly a bother, certainly less of a bother than dealing with a diplomatically sensitive conflict, so clearly there's more to this, you're trying to assert yourself I think :D

Try this, tell your parents that although you appreciate that they're doing this because they care about you and understand where they're coming from, you're not a child anymore, not quite an adult either but still you feel micromanagement to such an extent is infringing upon your personal sense of agency and would appreciate it if they understood of how that makes you feel.

Then propose a compromise, promise that you will make an effort to be more organized on your own terms, don't promise success, just that you'll try ;)
 

Solitaire U.

Last of the V-8 Interceptors
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Why does everything always have to be type-relevant? You live in someone else's house...They pay the bills, and in return ask that you make the bed, so make the fuckin' bed! :)
 

Fukyo

blurb blurb
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Making the bed takes 2 minutes tops. I'm going to have to side with the 1st world problems camp.
 

Words

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If being nagged to make ones bed is a big enough problem in ones life to bitch about it publicly, then yeah, I am guessing it qualify's as a genuine First World Problem.
How do you know his point to this thread is to simply "bitch about it publicly"? Maybe he wants clarification on the rationales of both sides for example.

I'm sorry, I cannot read your entire novel. I see a lot of correlative arguments though, "practice" and "effort" kind of things. My only comment:

"why blindly condition yourself to do work when you can practice on being more rational instead?"

Why does everything always have to be type-relevant? You live in someone else's house...They pay the bills, and in return ask that you make the bed, so make the fuckin' bed! :)
Because there are philosophical implications! Xd Besides, they could be wrong, and if they are wrong, then maybe they want to be right. Because it helps clarity, and to a small extent, prosper a much more intelligent environment. :D

Making the bed takes 2 minutes tops. I'm going to have to side with the 1st world problems camp.

2 minutes x 7 x 4 x 12 = that's 672 minutes wasted per year. And how many years would he do this? Besides, agnosticism! In the same way that the rational default belief is disbelief, the rational default action is inaction.
 

Cognisant

cackling in the trenches
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In the same way that the rational default belief is disbelief, the rational default action is inaction.
Please put that in your sig, it's brilliant.
 

Fukyo

blurb blurb
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Words said:
2 minutes x 7 x 4 x 12 = that's 672 minutes wasted per year. And how many years would he do this? Besides, agnosticism! In the same way that the rational default belief is disbelief, the rational default action is inaction.

If rational default action is inaction, why do you care how much time is wasted? Do you or him actually organize your time so impeccably that you use these (exactly) 672 yearly minutes for pursuits would would be considered worthwhile? I doubt it. Likely you spend them on other 'useless' activities. Besides, that's still just 2 minutes (at most) daily, which is hardly a substantive amount of time to be lost, within the context of a 24 h time period.
 

lungs

;lkjk;l
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"cleanliness and organisation is something you have to get into your head"

is it just about the bed? or is that just a sticking point?

i hardly ever make my bed and i don't know why some people think its important but if there is an overall problem with cleanliness then i wouldn't blame them.

in any case i doubt you have to deal with it for more than a few more years.
 

pernoctator

a bearded robocop
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If rational default action is inaction, why do you care how much time is wasted? Do you or him actually organize your time so impeccably that you use these (exactly) 672 yearly minutes for pursuits would would be considered worthwhile? I doubt it. Likely you spend them on other 'useless' activities. Besides, that's still just 2 minutes (at most) daily, which is hardly a substantive amount of time to be lost, within the context of a 24 h time period.

Useless activities by choice are preferable to useless activities by demand.

Wasting 2 minutes a day may be the practical response, but that doesn't affect the principle.
 

MissQuote

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I might just go a head and make my bed today. This topic has me all inspired. I might even clean my dresser top and put away my clean laundry! I'll have room to paint then and get to my paper making project I've been thinking about.
 

Coolydudey

You could say that.
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Firstly, it wasn't even about making beds!! Nor was I whining, just that I was wandering how many other people on the forum had similar experiences. By the way, someone mentioned that it might be reasonable to whine if there was no room for mess or anything at any time... The only mess I'm allowed is 2 days worth of clothes on the sofa (not bothered to put them in the washing basket)!
 

lungs

;lkjk;l
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of course people have had similar experiences with parents telling them to clean up after themselves. parents tend to do that. i don't think its a "J" thing.
 

MissQuote

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I might just go a head and make my bed today. This topic has me all inspired. I might even clean my dresser top and put away my clean laundry! I'll have room to paint then and get to my paper making project I've been thinking about.

Yeah. I never got to any of this.
 

nexion

coalescing in diffusion
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FWINTPP

Also, I cannot believe how much you guys ostracize sensors and judgers as people who are perpetually against everything you believe. Sorry there are some people who shatter your nice little worldview.

Please.
 

Czech Yes or No

Personality is only a small part of your person.
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Yes, my parents (specifically my father) are that way. I must abide by their extremely strict policies. Any discourse is met with extreme confrontation that ends in dismal punishment. Any ideas?
 

Coolydudey

You could say that.
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Yes, my parents (specifically my father) are that way. I must abide by their extremely strict policies. Any discourse is met with extreme confrontation that ends in dismal punishment. Any ideas?

First step is good understanding. Know what pisses him off, and then see if there is a way to present things in a different way (experiment). Things like "i'll do this but " or "I know what you mean, you have a point, but" (accepting their point of view first can have some PROFOUND effects) and so on... After the but you can insert a different worldview, concept, request to do something, whatever you find works best.
 

Sanctum

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Just suck it up dude to be honest its very beneficial maybe its just me but when everything is in order it makes it easier for me to focus or suppresses my P ness somewhat and I get a lot more done and on top of that i just feel generally better if my surroundings are clean. lol starting to sound like an INTJ
 
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