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No. My position is that Briggs and Myers largely started from Jung's various two-kinds-of-people-in-the-world categories, but put them to the test, and that the MBTI represents many appropriate corrections, adjustments and expansions of Jung's original concepts. As McCrae and Costa (the...

I don't believe in "extraverted judgers" and "introverted perceivers." I think the eight functions are what Reynierse has rightly called a "category mistake," and my take on that stuff is in the posts I already linked the OP to (this post and this post). 50 years of MBTI data (and related Big...

@dream-of-roses — The function model that Happy described — where INTJs and INTPs have no functions in common — is the forum-famous Harold Grant function stack. That model is inconsistent with Jung, inconsistent with Myers, and has never been endorsed by the official MBTI folks. And most...

In the spoiler are brief bullet-point summaries (from official MBTI reports) of the five "facets" of S/N in the "Step II" version of the MBTI. Assuming you're an N — and that is my assumption — I suspect you'll find yourself identifying significantly more with the N side of all five. In case...

All you're doing is playing tiresome semantic games, Tannheuser. Dave can concoct a "taxonomy" of personality types based on the zodiac. Bob can develop a "taxonomy" of personality dimensions based on thousands of studies (including twin studies), analyzed and "validated" (that's the technical...

You're pretty much totally misunderstanding one of the the main differences (if not the main difference) between soft sciences (most of psychology, the other social sciences, economics, etc.) and hard sciences. You didn't answer my question. Is it pseudoscience if a psychologist or social...

There are hard sciences, soft sciences and pseudosciences. It's not a black-and-white thing. Personality type is about probabilities and correlations, and that's the level at which its "statements" are "falsifiable." Is it "pseudoscience" to note that biological males tend to be sexually...

You have this completely backwards. The dichotomies are the solid part of the MBTI; and the faux-Jungian "cognitive functions" are what's stinking up the joint. And the dichotomies were not a "Keirsey/Bates addition." They came from Myers. Carl Jung — mystical streak notwithstanding — was a...

If you asked, then Jung would probably...? There's no need to speculate about how Jung "would probably proceed" if he was tasked with explaining introversion. He left us with Psychological Types — a 600-page book where he spent more time talking about extraversion and introversion than he...

Anyone who's read my posts knows that you've mostly left my points unaddressed, while addressing points I haven't made. "One little paragraph," Inquisitor? For "clinical purposes," Inquisitor? Am I dealing with a reading comprehension problem here, or an integrity problem? That "one little...

Actually, I've never "lost this debate" with anybody, Inquisitor, and that's because, as I've said... Focusing at the theoretical level, (1) Jung said there were more people who were neither extraverts nor introverts than people who were either extraverted or introverted, (2) Myers allowed...

Well, that was kind of a feeble post. Maybe take a little more time on the next one and respond to what I actually said. It's not a race. "Please provide evidence that definitely shows that the MBTI is perfectly reflective of an individual's psyche in this sense"—?? Why would I provide...

Can you point to any respectable source for that? You confidently assert that "there is no such thing as an ambivert." Well, first of all, it can be important to distinguish between theoretical assertions and factual assertions. Somebody might say they subscribe to a personality typology that...

I certainly don't consider Michael Pierce a good MBTI source. For starters, he's just another in a dishearteningly long line of subscribers to the Harold Grant function stack — that goofy twist on the MBTI (inconsistent with both Jung and Myers) that says that INTJs and ESFPs have quite a lot...

I'd say this framing of introversion is pretty much off — and in any event, it's substantially inconsistent with both Jung's and Myers' descriptions. A typical INT's passion for math or physics isn't "extraverted" because math and physics are "outside of themselves" and their primary interest...

There are hard sciences, soft sciences and pseudosciences, and unlike astrology, temperament psychology — in any of its better-established varieties, including the Myers-Briggs typology and the Big Five — belongs (along with most of psychology) in the "soft science" category. McCrae and Costa...

Re: What is the difference between INTP and ENTP Not only is this spectacularly inconsistent with my own experience with IS_Js, I'd say it's spectacularly inconsistent with the IS_J profiles you'll find in any of the reasonably well-known MBTI sources — and that's dichotomy-centric sources and...

Re: What is the difference between INTP and ENTP The only people capable of arguing that Jung's Si descriptions and modern descriptions of IS_Js match up reasonably well are people so desperate to believe that Jung had essentially (and correctly) figured it all out back in 1921 that they're...

Re: What is the difference between INTP and ENTP In the Introduction to Psychological Types, Jung confessed that, as reflected in several of his previous publications on the types, he'd previously believed that Thinking was part of Introversion and Feeling was part of Extraversion — i.e., that...

It sounds like you can't have read that Another MBTI "Debunking" post that I already linked you to. Jung's original typology was largely based on "anecdotal" experiences, but the MBTI was what happened to Jung when Myers put his ideas to the test — in accordance with the psychometric standards...

Re: What is the difference between INTP and ENTP Honestly, Inquisitor, time after time you say things about what I've said (and not said) that seems to indicate that you forget my posts within a few minutes of reading them. Which is fine if you're not going to reply to them, but tiresome when...

Contrary to what you sometimes hear, and notwithstanding that there are important distinctions to be made between "hard sciences" and "soft sciences," the four MBTI dichotomies now have decades of data in support of their validity and reliability — and a combination of meta-review and large...

Re: What is the difference between INTP and ENTP People who say why pay attention to the MBTI when there's the Big Five are either underestimating the MBTI, overestimating the Big Five, or both. McCrae and Costa (the leading Big Five psychologists) long ago acknowledged that the MBTI passed...

Re: What is the difference between INTP and ENTP Not. Even. Close. The MBTI is not "Just. A. Test." The MBTI is a four-dimension personality typology. And it reflects a lot of Jung, but it also differs from Jung's original concepts in many ways, both large and small. And those differences are...

Re: What is the difference between INTP and ENTP Your latest post is little more than strawman stew, spiced up with a lot of semantic quibbling about what it means to be a "traditionalist." Jung got a lot wrong and a lot right in Psychological Types, and my "consistently contradicted"...

Re: What is the difference between INTP and ENTP Sorry, fella, but this post of yours doesn't come close to making sense. There are opinions and there are facts, and you know what? As noted in my last post, Jung believed in that distinction, because notwithstanding his mystical streak, he...

Well, let me introduce you to Isabel Myers. Jung was a believer in the scientific approach, and Myers took Psychological Types and devoted a substantial chunk of her life to putting its typological concepts to the test in accordance with the psychometric standards applicable to the science of...

What do you mean by "true dichotomies, as originally intended by Jung"? Jung said that his eight types were four varieties of introvert and four varieties of extravert, while also saying that he thought more people were essentially in the middle on E/I than were significantly extraverted or...

Actually, it's incorrect to say that Jung viewed the tertiary — in its typical manifestation — as "aiding" (or being a "backup" to) the dominant. Jung called the dominant and auxiliary the "conscious functions" and the tertiary and inferior the "unconscious functions," and he said that the...

He vibes nerdy-IN to me. But it's also worth noting that lots of performers of various kinds (including actors and comedians) are introverts, and it's not hard to be misled if you pretty much only see them when they're "on." If you read the Wikipedia article, I suspect you'll come away (as I...

I suspect INFP is his correct type. I'm forever posting that I think there's a significant tendency for INFs to come out INT on typical MBTI tests (including the official test), so when an IN (and I think that's what Colbert is) comes out F, I'm inclined to take that as a pretty good F indicator.

In focusing on characteristics that vary, you've apparently lost sight of the many, many, many, many characteristics (physical and psychological both) that essentially all humans share (in the absence of rare mutations). These are characteristics that, having initially appeared, and because...

I think it's likely that the MBTI preferences represent what you might call social niche strategies, and that the current percentage of N's (for example) represents some kind of optimum level of N's within the population — or at least, what used to be the optimum level, during whatever...

Um, no. As discussed at some length in the "Discrete, bimodal types" section of this PerC post (which I already linked you to), the MBTI certainly doesn't stand or fall depending on whether any of its dimensions exhibit a "bimodal" distribution.

Here are the self-selection ratios that Myers reported for a study involving 705 Cal Tech science majors: INTJ 3.88 INFJ 2.95 INTP 2.92 INFP 1.97 ENTJ 1.56 ENTP 1.42 ENFP 1.09 ENFJ 1.08 ISTJ 0.68 ISTP 0.50 ISFP 0.49 ISFJ 0.43 ESTP 0.22 ESTJ 0.12 ESFJ 0.18 ESFP 0.02 Stat...

Well... assuming there are four (or five) real, relatively hardwired personality dimensions and you're designing a self-assessment test to tap into them, of course the test items are going to reflect various of the characteristics that your model associates with those dimensions. But that kind...

I totally agree with this peeve. Quotes are italicized at PerC and TypologyCentral, too, so I'm guessing it's the vBulletin default. Not only does this mean that the emphasis of italicized words within the quote is lost, but italic fonts tend to be a little harder to read than regular. That's...

I've only made eight posts here so far, Inquisitor, and in three of them — two of them replies to you — I've noted that I agree with James Reynierse that the so-called cognitive functions are a "category mistake." I don't subscribe to any functions model, I don't believe in "dominant" functions...

You're basically just asking me to keep repeating myself, and can't have read my first post even once with much care. You say I'm putting together type dynamics with MBTI, but as I emphasized at the end of my first post, it's talking about what Jung's function model was. I don't endorse any...

No, I'm definitely not saying Jung changed his mind about the function stack after Psychological Types. As I explained in the first post, the only way I can see to reconcile that passage about the Ti-doms' three unconscious functions with the rest of Psychological Types — including his...

I assume you're probably joshing, but to clarify just in case you or anyone else is confused... In this "equation" (from my earlier post)... INTJ = I + N + T + J + IN + IT + IJ + NT + NJ + TJ + INT + INJ + ITJ + NTJ + INTJ ... the "I" refers to stuff that all introverts tend to...

There are multiple issues there. I think virtually everybody respectable has always taken the view that the Jungian/MBTI dimensions are "continuums" if by that you simply mean that, e.g., some introverts are mild introverts and some introverts are strong introverts and so on. Jung himself...

I specifically discussed that quote, and how to reconcile it with Jung's descriptions of the auxiliary function, in my first post in the thread.

Again, as I stressed at the end of my first post, it's not my theory. I think the cognitive functions themselves are a category mistake, so I'm not a subscriber to any function stack. I'm just describing what Jung's function model appears to have been, for anyone who's interested. As I...

Miss spelt is correct to associate MBTI J's and P's with Jung's rational and irrational types (respectively), and that issue really goes hand in hand with the issue of the auxiliary's attitude. As noted in my first post, Myers said — and I'm not sure to what extent she really believed it or...

The so-called "cognitive functions" are what James Reynierse has rightly characterized as a "category mistake," and it sounds like Miss spelt is about ready to take the final step and leave them behind in favor of the respectable (dichotomy-centric) districts of the MBTI. Until then, though...